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BrendaQG
06-17-2009, 09:00 AM
Girls Don't Cry:An HBO documentary explores the growing number of transsexuals in Iran. (http://www.fairfieldweekly.com/article.cfm?aid=13397)

The documentary is called "Be like others". You can actually see parts of it on youtube. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-ID9j00av0)


Much of the best science fiction posits a society operating under a set of rules that cast our own society's unexamined assumptions in relief. Let's just say, for example, that homosexuality was a crime, punishable by death. And what if, in this same society, transsexuality were merely seen as an illness, curable with an operation partially funded by the state? But this is no Ursula Le Guin novel — this is Iran, which is second only to Thailand in the number of sex-change operations performed each year. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad may claim that there are no homosexuals in Iran, but estimates of transsexuals run as high as 150,000. What happens when gender is mutable but sexual orientation is not? When science produces a medical solution for what religion prohibits? Tanaz Eshaghian, an Iranian-American filmmaker, set out to find out in Be Like Others, which premieres on HBO on June 24.

Eshaghian, who left Iran at the age of six and grew up in New York, first read about the high incidence of gender-reassignment surgery in Iran, legalized by the Ayatollah Khomeini over 25 years ago, in articles in The New York Times and The Guardian. "I really was blown away," says Eshaghian. "It was such a traditional society. It started me thinking: How is that actually being practiced and understood?"

On the surface, the journey from male to female — and almost all of Eshaghian's subjects fall into that category — is strikingly similar to the road taken in the U.S. Patients submit to rigorous counseling and must obtain psychiatric approval before proceeding with the operation. But as Eshaghian got to know these young men, it became clear that there was something else going on. "In the West, in the current discourse on sexuality, transsexuality is considered something that is biological, something that is psychological, something beyond judgment," explains Eshaghian. "In Iran, those ideas are being said, but they're being used very differently." In the West, identifying as transgender may mean a stop anywhere along a continuum, and is not necessarily equated with homosexuality. But no Iranian male is getting a sex change to live as a lesbian. Instead, sexual reassignment surgery is used, paradoxically, to enforce heterosexual norms. "We're about being individuals," explains Eshaghian. "Iran is a communal culture, so it doesn't make sense to say 'I am this, I have this desire, and I have a right to pursue that because I have certain rights as an individual.' The sense of community is different, private space is different. Your body is not your private realm."

The documentary follows several men, all patients of Iran's leading gender-reassignment surgeon, Dr. Bahram Mir Jalali, from consultation through their first year of post-op life. Most are making a choice that will sever their connection to their families forever, but they see no other options. Eshaghian cites how Vida, a 24-year-old post-op female who counsels Dr. Jalali's patients, describes the dilemma: "Imagine if, with every person you encounter, you feel that they're looking at you like you are a degenerate. It's an awful way to go through life. You try to find a way to 'correct' this, to let society know that they're looking at you in the wrong way. That's how painful it is."

The death penalty for homosexual conduct is not enforced often, but Eshaghian says that's not the real issue. "It's a shame-based culture, and these boys have internalized that feeling of shame. They want to find a way to feel like it's not their fault. There's a scene where Vida says, 'If I had cancer you would feel sorry for me. This is just like cancer, don't you understand?' They're trying to enter another logic so that it leaves the whole system of sin and shame and degeneracy and becomes medical."

You might be wondering why anyone would want to be a woman in a country in which women cannot leave the house without long sleeves, long pants and a headscarf. While Iranian feminists have made some gains in the past decade, a woman's testimony in court and right to inherit is still worth half of a man's, stoning is still the punishment for adultery, and walking the streets uncovered is punishable by up to 80 lashes. But these men have found that the hijab gives them cover from the taunts of men. There's only one problem — in order to wear a veil, a man must have a letter from the government saying that he's a pre-op transsexual.

One woman does come in for a consultation with Dr. Jalali, but she soon disappears from the film. "She had a husband so she didn't let me go home with her," says Eshaghian, who estimates the percentage of female-to-male transsexuals at about 40 percent. "The women were not as willing to come forward because they're much more successful in their society. No one can tell they had a sex change. They just look like little guys — totally, you cannot tell at all — and their families don't disown them because it's not quite that shameful to the honor of the family for a girl to become a boy."

Betraying his culture's misogyny, Dr. Jalali boasts that the women he makes are more desirable than genetic ones, but Eshaghian did not meet any transsexuals who had truly achieved their dream of living like others. So why do young men, knowing the social, economic and personal hardships they will face, continue to go under the knife? "That's very logical," says Eshaghian, mentioning that one of the men she followed decided, upon reflection, not to go through with the operation. "The rest are overwhelmed in their attempt to end this nightmare that they're going through. Here's a solution — here is a medical answer."

I don't like the way this reporter "Ann Lewinson" very pointedly calls transitioned women he only referring to them as female once and calling a transman she. It's ironic that in trying to sound liberal she actually ends up being less respectful of these peoples new gender than the government of Iran. :roll:

goliath_91710
06-17-2009, 11:16 AM
Wow! This is interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing this, Brenda!

2009AD
06-17-2009, 02:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-ID9j00av0

alyssats
06-17-2009, 06:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-ID9j00av0

Wow such an interesting document im still on part 4 but cant help to talk about it.

its so nice to see those Iranian TS girls with their mom and dad going with them to consult to the doctor regarding GRS/SRS operation. Even their brothers and sisters are with them. So nice to see the whole family giving support to them and even the government. Adding to it their Iranian boyfriend seems to be very open to the society being with TS girls.

Iran such an interesting beliefs in terms in Transexuals and Gay people.

Goshhh those Persian guys are so hot and yummy! I want to have hot Persian bf now :oops:

goliath_91710
06-17-2009, 07:54 PM
Goshhh those Persian guys are so hot and yummy! I want to have hot Persian bf now :oops:

I knew one of you girls would go that route. I'm not judging though, 'cause I was thinking the same thing about some of the girls, Vida in particular, such a cutie! :lol:

BrendaQG
06-18-2009, 05:55 AM
I would like to mention something. Watching it on demand, i noticed that the subtitles say he him etc. There are no sex specific pronouns in Parsi, the national language of Iran (or any other language from that central Asian part of the world).

TsJennifer
06-18-2009, 09:30 AM
Wow. I watched all the parts of the Doc. Im really glad you shared that! I cant help feel sorry for the people in this Doc. I feel like some of the people were forced into being trans to be accepted by society! I think some of the people dont really identify them selfs with being trans but had there sex change anyways!

Also found it interesting that ALI was pressuring his gf to have the sex change and said it would make things better between them and it would be easier for them to be together. Then after she got her sex change he seem cold, distant and seemed to have lost interest in her!

Sad but very insightful! Once again thanks for posting this since I come from a similar upbringing and background. Being Moroccan. I am fortunate to be accepted and supported by all my family. My whole family is very proud of me and who I am! Im very grateful!

XOXO~
Jennifer Paris

2009AD
06-18-2009, 02:23 PM
A little off-topic, but...

Iran's pro-democracy Twitter: http://twitter.com/persiankiwi

Let's help these folks out. All they want is to live in a true democracy. Please post their Twitter link in as many places as you can. Iran's government is trying to restrict news on the protests.

BrendaQG
06-18-2009, 06:36 PM
Wow. I watched all the parts of the Doc. Im really glad you shared that! I cant help feel sorry for the people in this Doc. I feel like some of the people were forced into being trans to be accepted by society! I think some of the people dont really identify them selfs with being trans but had there sex change anyways!
No problem.

Yes I noticed that too. I'm of two minds on it. On the one hand just before major surgery saying the stuff Negar (ne. Ali Askar) said could have been nerves. On the other hand I'm thinking if life is hard for you and you dont want the surgery, surgery isn't going to make it better. She could have lived like her friend who choose not to have it.


Also found it interesting that ALI was pressuring his gf to have the sex change and said it would make things better between them and it would be easier for them to be together. Then after she got her sex change he seem cold, distant and seemed to have lost interest in her!

+1


Sad but very insightful! Once again thanks for posting this since I come from a similar upbringing and background. Being Moroccan. I am fortunate to be accepted and supported by all my family. My whole family is very proud of me and who I am! Im very grateful!

XOXO~
Jennifer Paris

Family makes all the difference in the world.

I would also note when I watched it on demand they also refered to all the TS's in the film as "men". I guess only the possible transman at the very begining was worth their respect.

2009AD
06-18-2009, 07:28 PM
http://www.whereistheirvote.x10hosting.com/

BrendaQG
06-19-2009, 04:35 AM
For those who are interested. Anahita (formerly Anoosh) does get married to Ali afterall. She was even able to get him to sign a pre-nup! I found that out in an interview of the filmmaker Tanaz Eshaghian. (http://www.movieline.com/2009/06/interview-be-like-others.php)



EXCLUSIVE: Director Tanaz Eshaghian On Her Gay Iranian Transsexual Doc Be Like Others

Written by Kyle Buchanan | 18 Jun 2009, 9:45 AM | 2 comments


An unlikely mashup of two of today’s biggest headlines (the Iranian election protests and Chastity Bono’s sex reassignment), the timely new documentary Be Like Others addresses a loophole that’s begun booming thanks to Iran’s inhospitable treatment of gay men: the sex change industry. Faced with a society that outlaws homosexuality and promises often-fatal punishment, gay Iranians like Anoosh (pictured above right, with boyfriend Ali) are turning to Tehran doctor Bahram Mir-Jalali and his transsexual counselor Vida in order to become women, a process sanctioned and practically encouraged by Iranian law. We talked to director Tanaz Eshaghian about her eye-opening film, set to premiere on HBO2 June 24.

Vida is so interesting — after getting to know her as this fabulous transsexual den mother, she bluntly says, “I don’t like gay people.”
Oh, that’s totally the norm.

Is that sort of cultural dissonance a survival instinct, or what?
It’s absolutely cultural. People would be coming into get the operation and they’d still say they weren’t gay. It’s completely internalized and shameful. They see it as a behavior that someone is choosing to become willfully, that they’re choosing to become a degenerate. Whereas with transsexuality, they’ve created a different discourse around it. It’s out of their control, it’s kind of like cancer, it’d medical so they can’t be judged for it.

Dr. Mir-Jalali notes how curious it is that the government outlaws homosexuality yet gives so much encouragement to transsexuals. Why do you think that is?
Well, in terms of the way it’s rationalized, homosexuality is considered a crime in the Koran. It says it flat-out, so it’s not a debatable point. Transsexuality, though, clearly is a modern operation. The founder of the revolution, Ayatollah Khomeini, was once confronted by an individual who wanted to have a sex change, and he was very moved. He said, “You were born in the wrong body and this is a medical issue. It has nothing to do with issues of sin or being a degenerate. Clearly, this is something for a doctor to look into. You’re allowed to have your body match your soul if it’s done medically.”

Of course, Mir-Jalali also asserts that true homosexuals won’t undergo the surgery — only transsexuals will. Be Like Others would seem to indicate that this isn’t necessarily the case.
Well, those are the questions that the film raises.

Do you think that were these men not in Iran, they would even consider having the surgery?
The only thing I’m able to do as a filmmaker is really look into the environment and the emotional and cultural landscape these men are in when they’re making this decision. I can raise questions, I can wonder. But also, in Iran, if someone is diagnosed and they get that piece of paper saying that they’re a transsexual, it is just assumed that they’ll get the operation. Whereas if you live in the west, there’s all these nuances. So would they focus on a sex change if they came here? Maybe not. But would they consider themselves transsexuals? Well, maybe. You can’t necessarily say for sure, but what you can look at is the environment within which they’re choosing.

"There’s a scene before Ali-Askar gets the operation where he goes, “I hear that in the west, two guys can marry. What’s the point of that?”"

Were they interested in Western attitudes on the subject?
They didn’t really care in the sense that they had absolutely no desire to move. They love their country. They feel connected, it’s their homeland. There’s a scene before Ali-Askar gets the operation where he goes, “I hear that in the west, two guys can marry. What’s the point of that?” It doesn’t make sense in his traditional frame of mind. Certain thoughts you don’t have until you see or experience them, and that’s not in their frame of reference.

Were you surprised by the level of protests we’re currently seeing in Iran?
I definitely got the feeling that people were not happy with Ahmedinejad, mostly because of his economic policies. That’s how he got there in the first place: he promised to bring the oil wealth to the table of the poor, and he didn’t. So it seemed like there was no way they were gonna reelect him again. The fact that he won by a landslide, or claims to — it’s not surprising that all this has happened. There was no way that people were going to vote for him again — it’s too offensive. That’s what you’re seeing, a population offended.

What’s interesting about how the protests have used Twitter and the internet is that I think it’s revealed to the wider world that there is a progressive youth movement happening in Iran. It sort of mirrors what happens in your documentary, where these more progressive attitudes butt up against established dogma.
You know, that’s interesting. I didn’t think about it that way. I had originally read about these sex changes in the paper, like so many documentary filmmakers. [laughs] And I was amazed that this was actually happening in a country like Iran because I know how traditional it is. I thought, “This would way to be a fantastic way to look at gender issues in a traditional society.” Or, quote/unquote, “not fitting in,” or bumping up against Islamic attitudes.

As far as their being a gay or trans subculture in Iran…
There is one. I didn’t hang out in it, but I know from friends who go back and forth from Iran that there is a gay subculture, especially in Tehran. But as you would expect, it’s more of a middle-to-upper-class scene. The boys you’re seeing in the film are from rural areas, they’re in more conservative, religious, traditional parts of the country. They’re the ones that really don’t have the power that comes from the other classes where you can do what you want secretly or be who you want. Although, you can still get busted [despite being upper-class], don’t get me wrong. I just heard of a gay couple living in a fancy Tehran area, and the landlord saw them being physical with each other and said they had to leave. And the two men said, we’ll pay you, anything, just don’t make us leave. And the landlord took their money and then reported them. It is a very homophobic society, but regardless of that, there is a small gay subculture.

Were your subjects worried about appearing on camera?
You have to realize that these guys have hit rock bottom. They don’t have much to lose; their families have disowned them, they often prostitute themselves to survive. In the case of Ali-Askar, I think he was also suicidal. It’s very, very hard and tragic, and I think that when they came into contact with me, they thought this would be a forum to express what they were going through.

Have there been any interesting postscripts since you shot the film?
Yes, you remember Anoosh, who had the hot boyfriend Ali?

Yeah — Ali really seemed to lose his desire for Anoosh after the latter had his sex change surgery.
Well, they got married.

You’re kidding!
I think the pressure of [Anoosh’s] mom won out — she said, “Now we have a girl, and she can’t just go with you when you please, Ali.” [laughs] I was surprised, too! I got this call, “We got married! And I even got him to sign this pre-nup saying that if we get divorced, I get this, this, and that.” (Quoted Verbatim)

What I notice in her words is that she still refers to these transwomen as he and him, and by their birth names. She also focuses on the unhappiness of Negar (formerly Ali Askar) in making her apparent point with this movie. Which is that gay men are all forced to be transsexual in Iran or die. :-\ (Which as one blog I have read on this points out is doubtful because then shouldn't Anahita also feel that pressure?)

alyssats
06-19-2009, 05:17 AM
wow so its really possible to get married in Iran

BLKGSXR
06-19-2009, 07:15 AM
wow so its really possible to get married in Iran if you can live thru the protests. :smoking

BrendaQG
06-19-2009, 08:07 AM
wow so its really possible to get married in Iran

If your post op... and marry a male.