Are ladyboys granted access to a battered women's shelter?

[TommyFoxtrot]

My sister answered a call yesterday of a domestic disturbance. Someone's boyfriend got liquored up and beat the crap out of his TS girlfriend last night. She was scared to go home etc...

So is that common, at least in the big cities? Or do they have to go to a gay men's shelter? I know there's one in San Francisco and LA.

[Quiet Reflections]

if not they should be

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

She would be way better off staying with friends than a shelter. It's not safe for tg's to stay there with the homeless and druggies.

My 2cents.

~Kisses.

HTG

[SarahG]

My sister answered a call yesterday of a domestic disturbance. Someone's boyfriend got liquored up and beat the crap out of his TS girlfriend last night. She was scared to go home etc...

So is that common, at least in the big cities? Or do they have to go to a gay men's shelter? I know there's one in San Francisco and LA.

When it comes to domestic violence victims or sexual assault/rape victims, most cities only have places for GG's to go to.

But, some larger cities do have lgb oriented shelters. Some are also trans friendly, but a lot aren't.

[AmyDaly]

She may be able to get away with going there if she is 100% passable.

[arnie666]

Due to my job I have a lot of contact with womens refuges and I know for a fact they would not let a TS stay in one as it was brought up when I went on an awareness course on domestic violence.They even don't allow boys over a certain age at least in the number I have dealings with on a professional basis. The womens refuges at least in my area are very well run and provide real support for the women and their children.There is a zero tolerance to drugs and alcohol are a very safe environment.

It would be a real headache for me if I came across this situation and felt the TS's life was at serious risk. I know the reasoning they have for this but I don't want to say as it would probably upset the easily offended brigade on here. But I would just say I don't agree with their views which I think are oldfashioned. Perhaps there are more options on the states for people in more diverse situations.

It's a real problem here in the UK as there is a shortage of places for battered men to go. And it isn't just GG who are in abusive relationships.

[SarahG]

Due to my job I have a lot of contact with womens refuges and I know for a fact they would not let a TS stay in one as it was brought up when I went on an awareness course on domestic violence.They even don't allow boys over a certain age at least in the number I have dealings with on a professional basis. The womens refuges at least in my area are very well run and provide real support for the women and their children.There is a zero tolerance to drugs and alcohol are a very safe environment.

It would be a real headache for me if I came across this situation and felt the TS's life was at serious risk. I know the reasoning they have for this but I don't want to say as it would probably upset the easily offended brigade on here. But I would just say I don't agree with their views which I think are oldfashioned. Perhaps there are more options on the states for people in more diverse situations.

It's a real problem here in the UK as there is a shortage of places for battered men to go. And it isn't just GG who are in abusive relationships.

:claps

People only seem to care about GG victims when it comes to stuff like this. The services that exist are simply pathetic more often then not whenever we're talking about other victims.

I am kinda surprised that they weren't willing to entertain passable postops however. I think when push comes to shove, the argument victim services catering to GGs will make is often "these women were abused, therefore they won't feel safe if anyone on the property who has reached puberty has a dick."

[Hostile]

Very simple solution, call the police and have him arrested for assault. Press charges!

[AmyDaly]

Due to my job I have a lot of contact with womens refuges and I know for a fact they would not let a TS stay in one as it was brought up when I went on an awareness course on domestic violence.They even don't allow boys over a certain age at least in the number I have dealings with on a professional basis. The womens refuges at least in my area are very well run and provide real support for the women and their children.There is a zero tolerance to drugs and alcohol are a very safe environment.

It would be a real headache for me if I came across this situation and felt the TS's life was at serious risk. I know the reasoning they have for this but I don't want to say as it would probably upset the easily offended brigade on here. But I would just say I don't agree with their views which I think are oldfashioned. Perhaps there are more options on the states for people in more diverse situations.

It's a real problem here in the UK as there is a shortage of places for battered men to go. And it isn't just GG who are in abusive relationships.

:claps

People only seem to care about GG victims when it comes to stuff like this. The services that exist are simply pathetic more often then not whenever we're talking about other victims.

I am kinda surprised that they weren't willing to entertain passable postops however. I think when push comes to shove, the argument victim services catering to GGs will make is often "these women were abused, therefore they won't feel safe if anyone on the property who has reached puberty has a dick."

Do they do a backround check or something? Alot of transwomen who are post op could fit under their radar...

[MacShreach]

Due to my job I have a lot of contact with womens refuges and I know for a fact they would not let a TS stay in one as it was brought up when I went on an awareness course on domestic violence.They even don't allow boys over a certain age at least in the number I have dealings with on a professional basis. The womens refuges at least in my area are very well run and provide real support for the women and their children.There is a zero tolerance to drugs and alcohol are a very safe environment.

It would be a real headache for me if I came across this situation and felt the TS's life was at serious risk. I know the reasoning they have for this but I don't want to say as it would probably upset the easily offended brigade on here. But I would just say I don't agree with their views which I think are oldfashioned. Perhaps there are more options on the states for people in more diverse situations.

It's a real problem here in the UK as there is a shortage of places for battered men to go. And it isn't just GG who are in abusive relationships.

:claps

People only seem to care about GG victims when it comes to stuff like this. The services that exist are simply pathetic more often then not whenever we're talking about other victims.

I am kinda surprised that they weren't willing to entertain passable postops however. I think when push comes to shove, the argument victim services catering to GGs will make is often "these women were abused, therefore they won't feel safe if anyone on the property who has reached puberty has a dick."


A lot of this is to do with the demographic-- there is no question that the largest number of people who need this kind of help are natal women--and the way these services came into being, usually as a result of initiatives by natal women, often those who had suffered themselves.

Men do suffer from domestic violence but there are far fewer reported cases; though reluctance to accept what is going on and seek help may be a contributor, this is probably marginal.

Women's shelters do not discriminate on orientation, so natal women are accepted whether their abuser is male or female.

All this leaves a problem with transsexual women, further complicated, in UK, by the Gender Recognition Act 2004, which, basically, gives a transwoman legal status as a woman; it is illegal to disclose the history of a woman (or man) who has registered under the Act, or to discriminate against her on the grounds of her gender status.

Since it is not actually necessary for an individual to have had GRS to qualify for registration, I would have thought that this puts the women's shelters in an interesting legal position, in that turning a registered transwoman away would appear to leave them open to legal action, particularly if the woman then came to harm. (And of course, what happens with a pre-operative transMAN, who is registered--still having female genitalia but being, presenting as and legally registered as a man?)

Arnie, do you have any info on this? Has it happened in any shelters you know of? Have the local authorities in your area given this scenario any consideration, and if so with what result? I would appreciate any references you might be able to give, please feel free to PM me if you want.

[SarahG]

Due to my job I have a lot of contact with womens refuges and I know for a fact they would not let a TS stay in one as it was brought up when I went on an awareness course on domestic violence.They even don't allow boys over a certain age at least in the number I have dealings with on a professional basis. The womens refuges at least in my area are very well run and provide real support for the women and their children.There is a zero tolerance to drugs and alcohol are a very safe environment.

It would be a real headache for me if I came across this situation and felt the TS's life was at serious risk. I know the reasoning they have for this but I don't want to say as it would probably upset the easily offended brigade on here. But I would just say I don't agree with their views which I think are oldfashioned. Perhaps there are more options on the states for people in more diverse situations.

It's a real problem here in the UK as there is a shortage of places for battered men to go. And it isn't just GG who are in abusive relationships.

:claps

People only seem to care about GG victims when it comes to stuff like this. The services that exist are simply pathetic more often then not whenever we're talking about other victims.

I am kinda surprised that they weren't willing to entertain passable postops however. I think when push comes to shove, the argument victim services catering to GGs will make is often "these women were abused, therefore they won't feel safe if anyone on the property who has reached puberty has a dick."

Do they do a backround check or something? Alot of transwomen who are post op could fit under their radar...

I would be really really surprised if any of those services ran a background check.

I am sure if someone is passable and has consistent ID, they'd not raise any eyes.

But, if people wonder whether or not you're trans, or it gets out that you have a dick- there can be problems. And if its a clinic that only caters to GGs, then there WILL be problems in those types of scenarios.

[MacShreach]

Do they do a backround check or something? Alot of transwomen who are post op could fit under their radar...

Amy, the thing is that if she's registered under the Gender Recognition Act, then it would be a criminal offence to reveal her former gender. Her previous details are legally sealed, and all her ID will show her as a woman. Such a search could only reveal her status after her registration of change of gender, unless it was carried out by the Court and even then, the information would be for the judge's eyes only. In any case, searches like that just would not be practical in terms of making a decision as to whether to admit a woman at immediate risk of violence into a shelter.

This is a very, very interesting question.

[SarahG]

A lot of this is to do with the demographic-- there is no question that the largest number of people who need this kind of help are natal women--and the way these services came into being, usually as a result of initiatives by natal women, often those who had suffered themselves.

Men do suffer from domestic violence but there are far fewer reported cases; though reluctance to accept what is going on and seek help may be a contributor, this is probably marginal.

idk, I might be willing to say the big issue isn't reporting so much as the way we view guys in scenarios like this. Its the whole "be a man"/"grow a pair" attitude- we expect women to fall to pieces whenever stuff like this happens to them, we expect guys to not have to deal with it at all (after all, they're "big and tough"), or have it not really effect them beyond their egos (i.e. the way everyone jokes around or encourages prison rape when talking about guys).

[MacShreach]

But, if people wonder whether or not you're trans, or it gets out that you have a dick- there can be problems. And if its a clinic that only caters to GGs, then there WILL be problems in those types of scenarios.

Well, still talking about the UK case, um, not really, or at least, there does not appear to be a lot they could do about it, without breaking the law (and this is the criminal law we're talking about.) If she's legally registered under the Act, and remember, she may do that while pre-op, then she is legally a woman. Remember these are not clinics we are talking about, where a legitimate discrimination might possibly be made on proper medical grounds (though this would be in a limited range of cases) these are SHELTERS designed to be safe havens for women who are at immediate risk of violence.

My reading certainly is that if a shelter turned away a transwoman who was registered under the Act and that woman was then injured, or god forbid killed, by the person who was threatening her, then the person who made that decision might be in very, very serious trouble indeed, and the institution too if it were shown that its policy was in breach of the GRA.

I'd like Arnie to come back with some info, otherwise I'm going to have to make some phone calls myself...

[SarahG]

But, if people wonder whether or not you're trans, or it gets out that you have a dick- there can be problems. And if its a clinic that only caters to GGs, then there WILL be problems in those types of scenarios.

Well, still talking about the UK case, um, not really, or at least, there does not appear to be a lot they could do about it, without breaking the law (and this is the criminal law we're talking about.) If she's legally registered under the Act, and remember, she may do that while pre-op, then she is legally a woman. Remember these are not clinics we are talking about, where a legitimate discrimination might possibly be made on proper medical grounds (though this would be in a limited range of cases) these are SHELTERS designed to be safe havens for women who are at immediate risk of violence.

My reading certainly is that if a shelter turned away a transwoman who was registered under the Act and that woman was then injured, or god forbid killed, by the person who was threatening her, then the person who made that decision might be in very, very serious trouble indeed, and the institution too if it were shown that its policy was in breach of the GRA.

I'd like Arnie to come back with some info, otherwise I'm going to have to make some phone calls myself...

What if they never play the legal sex-status card and simply say "you look like a guy, these girls are all terrified of guys from abuse- we can't have you here simply because it does harm to everyone else."?

[MacShreach]

A lot of this is to do with the demographic-- there is no question that the largest number of people who need this kind of help are natal women--and the way these services came into being, usually as a result of initiatives by natal women, often those who had suffered themselves.

Men do suffer from domestic violence but there are far fewer reported cases; though reluctance to accept what is going on and seek help may be a contributor, this is probably marginal.

idk, I might be willing to say the big issue isn't reporting so much as the way we view guys in scenarios like this. Its the whole "be a man"/"grow a pair" attitude- we expect women to fall to pieces whenever stuff like this happens to them, we expect guys to not have to deal with it at all (after all, they're "big and tough"), or have it not really effect them beyond their egos (i.e. the way everyone jokes around or encourages prison rape when talking about guys).

I know what you mean but actually, stats about domestic violence are collected and they do consistently show that the level of violence against women in a domestic situation is many times higher than against men; the reporting I was referring to was that of the victim reporting the incident to either the police or turning up at a shelter so that the incident would actually be noted.

Of course women show great reluctance to admit domestic violence as well, as has been shown repeatedly, often leaving it for many years before seeking help, but I do suspect that men are more so. Certainly in the high-profile cases of domestic violence against men that I have seen, where the matter has gone to court, this has been mentioned as an issue.

[MacShreach]

But, if people wonder whether or not you're trans, or it gets out that you have a dick- there can be problems. And if its a clinic that only caters to GGs, then there WILL be problems in those types of scenarios.

Well, still talking about the UK case, um, not really, or at least, there does not appear to be a lot they could do about it, without breaking the law (and this is the criminal law we're talking about.) If she's legally registered under the Act, and remember, she may do that while pre-op, then she is legally a woman. Remember these are not clinics we are talking about, where a legitimate discrimination might possibly be made on proper medical grounds (though this would be in a limited range of cases) these are SHELTERS designed to be safe havens for women who are at immediate risk of violence.

My reading certainly is that if a shelter turned away a transwoman who was registered under the Act and that woman was then injured, or god forbid killed, by the person who was threatening her, then the person who made that decision might be in very, very serious trouble indeed, and the institution too if it were shown that its policy was in breach of the GRA.

I'd like Arnie to come back with some info, otherwise I'm going to have to make some phone calls myself...

What if they never play the legal sex-status card and simply say "you look like a guy, these girls are all terrified of guys from abuse- we can't have you here simply because it does harm to everyone else."?

Unless there's a specific exception to cover shelters, and as far as I know there is not, it would not matter; discrimination against transgender people on the basis of their gender is illegal, full stop. The GRA just gives a legal framework for this; the principle comes from the European Court, which is a higher authority.

The only way they could get round that would be to bar all masculine-looiking women, and then I assure, you, in parts of say, Dundee, that's a pretty high bar.... :lol:

[SarahG]

The only way they could get round that would be to bar all masculine-looiking women, ...

Which wouldn't be that big of a stretch, if you think about it.

Also, I would bet they'd have problems catering to a passable FtM who hasn't registered (aka are still legally female).

[MacShreach]

The only way they could get round that would be to bar all masculine-looiking women, ...

Which wouldn't be that big of a stretch, if you think about it.

Also, I would bet they'd have problems catering to a passable FtM who hasn't registered (aka are still legally female).

Absolutely. I am as usual, the DA here (Devil's Advocate.) IMO the GRA is a dog's breakfast, and this is a case in point-- a transman--who lives as a man, and has male gender, is legally entitled to use all the facilities available to women, even after GRS, until the day that man registers his change of gender under the GRA.

Most of the shelters we are talking about are either run by or partly funded by the local authority, ie the State, so this is not a matter of arbitrary policy being made on the ground, or shouldn't be, anyway.

[TommyFoxtrot]

Very simple solution, call the police and have him arrested for assault. Press charges!


She is the police. Obviously she can't give me all the details, but she said the guy was about 6'3" and 250. The Ts was rather petite, so there's not much chance of defending herself unarmed. He was compliant but oddly enough tried to deny that she was his girlfriend, even though there were pictures of them together on the coffee table. :roll:

[deee757]

Very simple solution, call the police and have him arrested for assault. Press charges!


She is the police. Obviously she can't give me all the details, but she said the guy was about 6'3" and 250. The Ts was rather petite, so there's not much chance of defending herself unarmed. He was compliant but oddly enough tried to deny that she was his girlfriend, even though there were pictures of them together on the coffee table. :roll:

We have plenty of shelters her in VA and 99 percent of them are run by Non profit organizations. Male to female transsexuals are not allowed in w omens shelters. The structure and counseling settings are established for genetic females, therefore the services and referrals are catered around womens needs. For example, if a single female is battered and abused and comes to a shelter, she is referred to a doctor for observation, social services for support and possible financial resources, and womens psychosocial groups for group counseling. These services are not desined for males, or in this case, transsesexuals.

[BrendaQG]

Interesting thread. I found this story about a court case from British Columbia, Canada about a TS wanting to work at a shelter for rape victims. (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BC+court+backs+Vancouver+rape+relief+to+exclude+tr ansexual+volunteer-a0146219259) The rape relief organization is all on this thing about having been oppressed from birth. (All the while not seeing that a feminine male is also oppressed from birth. One has to act like one of the boys to be in the old boys network.) The court found that the TS had no right to work there. Canada is more liberal than the USA in general. So I would say the USA's law would likely follow Canada on this.

Basically if your a transsexual and you get raped all anyone will tell you is to man the fuck up and defend yourself next time. :-<