What Is The World To Do With North Korea???

[Dino Velvet]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522103,00.html

N. Korea Warns of Military Strike on S. Korea
Wednesday, May 27, 2009

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea warned South Korea and the United States on Wednesday that Seoul's participation in a U.S.-led program to intercept ships suspected of carrying weapons of mass destruction is equal to a declaration of war.

South Korea announced its participation in the U.S.-led program on Tuesday, one day after North Korea defiantly conducted a nuclear test, drawing international criticism.

The North's military said in a statement that it will respond with "immediate, strong military measures" against any attempt to stop and search North Korean ships under the Proliferation Security Initiative.

The statement, carried by the North's official Korean Central News Agency, also said the regime no longer considers itself bound by the armistice that ended the Korean War. It accused the U.S., a signatory of the armistice, of "dragging" the South into the program under its "hostile policy" against the North.

It also said it cannot guarantee safety for South Korean and U.S. navy ships sailing near the disputed western Korean sea border.

Earlier Wednesday, news reports and South Korean officials said the North has restarted a weapons-grade nuclear plant and fired five short-range missiles in two days, deepening the standoff with world powers following its nuclear test.

South Korea's mass-circulation Chosun Ilbo newspaper reported that U.S. spy satellites have detected steam coming from a nuclear facility at North Korea's main Yongbyon plant, indicating the North is reprocessing spent nuclear fuel rods to harvest weapons-grade plutonium.

Its report quoted an unnamed official. South Korea's Defense Ministry and the National Intelligence Service — the country's main spy agency — said they cannot confirm the report.

The North had said it would begin reprocessing in protest over international criticism of its April 5 rocket launch.

North Korea is believed to have enough plutonium for at least half a dozen atomic bombs. The North also has about 8,000 spent fuel rods which, if reprocessed, could allow the country to harvest 6-8 kilograms (13-18 pounds) of plutonium — enough to make at least one nuclear bomb, experts said.

Yonhap news agency carried a similar report later Wednesday, saying the gate of a facility storing the spent fuel rods was spotted open several times since mid-April. The report, also citing an unnamed South Korean official, said chemical-carrying vehicles were spotted at Yongbyon.

North Korea test-fired three additional short-range missiles Tuesday, including one late at night, from the east coast city of Hamhung, according to South Korean Defense Ministry spokesman Won Tae-jae.

He said the North already test-launched two short-range missiles from another eastern coast launch pad on Monday, not the three reported by many South Korean media outlets.

http://www.foxnews.com/images/534372/3_68_a320.jpghttp://www.foxnews.com/images/525953/4_68_320kim.jpg

I don't want to go to war with these guys but it seems like UN action has had little effect on North Korea acheiving its goal of going nuclear. Russia and China have been especially unhelpful. I realize China is worried about refugees and I understand that to a certain degree. But, if they don't get with the program South Korea and Japan will want nuclear weapons too. This is a sensitive situation. What are your opinions on how the North Koreans should be dealt with?

[trish]

So Georgie W took his eye off the ball. Pakistan, Iran and just about everybody traded nuclear technology with North Korea. So now N. Korea claims they have nuclear weapons and the technology to deliver them. But that alone is no reason to go to war. Face it. You can't stop knowledge from spreading. The nuclear "club" will continue to swell in membership. Instead of wasting our resources and the lives of our soldiers stomping the shit out of every nation that tries to join [the] club, just let them in. Sometime soon, we'll have to learn to deal with others using intelligence and reason rather than with brawn.

[edits in square brackets]

[hippifried]

That's an easy question.

Just get out of the way & let Korea reunite.

[Dino Velvet]

That's an easy question.

Just get out of the way & let Korea reunite.

How do they reunite? Peacefully? What system prevails, Capitalism or Communism? What is Kim Jong Il's role? Does he just go away and retire to Florida?

[trish]

Capitalism, communism...it doesn't matter. Vietnam is communist, but it still rings the opening bell in the stock market everyday. Not everyone has to adopt our political philosophy. We are just a nation; not the world’s guardian of democracy. Nor are we democracy’s evangelistic missionaries.

[hippifried]

That's an easy question.

Just get out of the way & let Korea reunite.

How do they reunite? Peacefully? What system prevails, Capitalism or Communism? What is Kim Jong Il's role? Does he just go away and retire to Florida?Maybe not Florida, but yes. That's exactly what he'd do. The South Koreans have been clammoring for reunification for decades. Every time they start getting too loud about it, the SK army steps in & cracks heads. I can't believe that the folks in NK would have any truck with reunification. The whole Korean conflict was contrived in the first place, & the 50+ year ceasefire is a joke. Why not try getting out of the way & let the Koreas talk to each other directly. They're all Korean. They already speak the same language. What? You don't think open trade, freedom of movement, & communication among the Korean people might have better results than the last half century of pointing guns accross the line? I wonder what would happen if the Koreans just tore down the fence like the Germans tore down the wall. Think the Americans would open fire?


trish wrote:

Vietnam is communistYou sure about that? That's the excuse we keep using to justify not dealing with them & trying to get others to not deal with them, but is it true? Does anybody really know?


Nor are we democracy’s evangelistic missionaries.Yes we are. That's a perfect description of what we do.

[trish]

hippiefried wrote:
trish wrote:
Quote:
Vietnam is communist
You sure about that? That's the excuse we keep using to justify not dealing with them & trying to get others to not deal with them, but is it true? Does anybody really know?


As I said, they do ring the opening bell everyday, so..no...I'm not so sure; but I'm pretty sure it doesn't really matter.


Quote:
Nor are we democracy’s evangelistic missionaries.
Yes we are. That's a perfect description of what we do.
Point taken, but my statement was prescriptive rather than descriptive. :wink:

[tstv_lover]

Capitalism, communism...it doesn't matter. Not everyone has to adopt our political philosophy.

Totally agree. What's important is what works for them. It's taken the western world several millenium to reach our current state and it would arrogance to require others to follow suit. Maybe they will find something better - who knows.


We are just a nation; not the world’s guardian of democracy..
What refreshing realism Trish!

As for North Korea's current threats, I'm really at a loss to suggest a solution. These seem to be 3 options:

1. Nuke the bastards
2. Impose further trade sanctions
3. Something else.

Given that existing sanctions have clearly made no impact, I vote for option 3. Just gotta figure out what it is![/quote]

[beandip]

"So Georgie W took his eye off the ball. Pakistan, Iran and just about everybody traded nuclear technology with North Korea. So now N. Korea claims they have nuclear weapons and the technology to deliver them. But that alone is no reason to go to war. Face it. You can't stop knowledge from spreading. The nuclear "club" will continue to swell in membership. Instead of wasting our resources and the lives of our soldiers stomping the shit out of every nation that tries to join [the] club, just let them in. Sometime soon, we'll have to learn to deal with others using intelligence and reason rather than with brawn."

I agree...kinda, Moron Clintoon did more to spread nuke tech than that dick head Shrub ever did.

They are no threat to the US. Actually...the only jerks we should worry about are the ones who have ICBM's / sub platform nuke cruises and such. After that... no one, and I mean no one has heavy lift capability like the US and are therefore no threat to us. What are they (anyone) gonna do? Swim over here to attack us? The tact nuke (suitcase) mess is like toothpaste, we'll never put it back into the tube, that threat is real. Thankfully the triggers have a limited lifespan.

LOL

[beandip]

"So Georgie W took his eye off the ball. Pakistan, Iran and just about everybody traded nuclear technology with North Korea. So now N. Korea claims they have nuclear weapons and the technology to deliver them. But that alone is no reason to go to war. Face it. You can't stop knowledge from spreading. The nuclear "club" will continue to swell in membership. Instead of wasting our resources and the lives of our soldiers stomping the shit out of every nation that tries to join [the] club, just let them in. Sometime soon, we'll have to learn to deal with others using intelligence and reason rather than with brawn."

I agree...kinda, Moron Clintoon did more to spread nuke tech than that dick head Shrub ever did.

They are no threat to the US. Actually...the only jerks we should worry about are the ones who have ICBM's / sub platform nuke cruises and such. After that... no one, and I mean no one has heavy lift capability like the US and are therefore no threat to us. What are they (anyone) gonna do? Swim over here to attack us? The tact nuke (suitcase) mess is like toothpaste, we'll never put it back into the tube, that threat is real. Thankfully the triggers have a limited lifespan.

LOL

[gotchagood]

Does anyone here remember the speech about the "axis of evil" that Georgie made?? Iran, Iraq, "NORTH KOREA"......and folks thought he just trying to be a bully.

[hippifried]

Not me. I just thought he was being stupid & ill advised. My opinion hasn't changed.

[notdrunk]

Not me. I just thought he was being stupid & ill advised. My opinion hasn't changed.

Well, he is right about North Korea. North Korea has been trying hard in forcing the US and South Korea to start a war with them. Plenty of examples of North Korea trying to do so. For example, the Blue House Raid back in the late 60s and the Rangoon bombing in the 80s.

[brickcitybrother]

LEAVE THEM THE FUCK ALONE.

Why do WE have to do ANYTHING. The North is only concerned about the US because the US is concerned with the North. What would happen there that hasn't happened in other parts of the world (where we don't stick our nose)?

[notdrunk]

LEAVE THEM THE FUCK ALONE.

Why do WE have to do ANYTHING. The North is only concerned about the US because the US is concerned with the North. What would happen there that hasn't happened in other parts of the world (where we don't stick our nose)?

It goes back to Kim Il-sung. The United States had Rhee under control for the most part. Rhee wanted to unify the country under his control; however, the United States didn't want a war. So, the United States didn't give weapons that could wage a successful offensive war.

Kim Il-Sung duped the Soviets and the Chinese into thinking that North Korea could capture South Korea. So, they gave them weapons that could wage a successful offensive war. The Communists thought the United States would be too slow to respond or they wouldn't care if South Korea became Communist. They were wrong.

North Korea has a habit of doing shit if they don't have attention on them. For example, during the Vietnam War, North Korea conducted raids that killed American service personnel. Or, they might conduct a missile test from time to time.

[hippifried]

The Korean war never ended. There's just been a tentative & unstable ceasefire since 1953 till 3 days ago. Nk unilaterally withdrew from the truce. What does that mean? Probably nothing, except that they'll consider us as having no place at the negotiating table.

All of this is just more evidence that the world's powers can't control the world. All the crap in Korea happened because the US & the Soviets carved it up without consulting the Koreans. Nobody likes being occupied by foreigners. We didn't liberate Korea from the Japanese. We put the Japanese colonial system back in place, the same way the Brits did in VietNam. Stupidity & arrogance has backlashes. One would think we'd figure it out by now.

[notdrunk]

The Korean war never ended. There's just been a tentative & unstable ceasefire since 1953 till 3 days ago. Nk unilaterally withdrew from the truce. What does that mean? Probably nothing, except that they'll consider us as having no place at the negotiating table.

All of this is just more evidence that the world's powers can't control the world. All the crap in Korea happened because the US & the Soviets carved it up without consulting the Koreans. Nobody likes being occupied by foreigners. We didn't liberate Korea from the Japanese. We put the Japanese colonial system back in place, the same way the Brits did in VietNam. Stupidity & arrogance has backlashes. One would think we'd figure it out by now.

After World War 2, according to the Cairo Declaration, Korea was supposed to be an independent country. However, the Cold War started soon after World War 2.

[gotchagood]

Either way it goes, we were warned.

[hippifried]

After World War 2, according to the Cairo Declaration, Korea was supposed to be an independent country. However, the Cold War started soon after World War 2.Korea was the original proxy war that kicked off the cold war. That's what started the whole thing. The cold war's over for 2 decades, & we still haven't figured out Korea.

There's no evidence that allowing reunification negotiations to start would end in war. There's certainly no evidence that communist NK would be able to dominate. All they have is nuclear technology. The south has all the money & resources. It'd be a win win for both sides. For us too, because we could close that chapter & get the hell out of there.

[hippifried]

I got tangled up & this post ended up in here 3 times. Don't ask.

[hippifried]

This one too. I don't know what's going on, but I keep losing the connection to this site. I'm still connected to everything else. It's just here. Is it just me?

[notdrunk]

After World War 2, according to the Cairo Declaration, Korea was supposed to be an independent country. However, the Cold War started soon after World War 2.Korea was the original proxy war that kicked off the cold war. That's what started the whole thing. The cold war's over for 2 decades, & we still haven't figured out Korea.

There's no evidence that allowing reunification negotiations to start would end in war. There's certainly no evidence that communist NK would be able to dominate. All they have is nuclear technology. The south has all the money & resources. It'd be a win win for both sides. For us too, because we could close that chapter & get the hell out of there.

Unification will happen in the future; however, it will be probably worse than the reunification of West Germany and East Germany. The area that used to be East Germany is still lagging in many ways (e.g., economy) behind the area that used to be West Germany.

I remember watching a web show called The Vice Guide to North Korea in which the reporter traveled to North Korea and he filmed his journey. It gave me major 1984 vibes. It will probably take decades for North Koreans to be deprogrammed from the personality cult.

[hippifried]

Unification will happen in the future; however, it will be probably worse than the reunification of West Germany and East Germany. The area that used to be East Germany is still lagging in many ways (e.g., economy) behind the area that used to be West Germany. It takes time to industrialize a region. Regardless of what anybody considers "lagging", the people of the former East Germany are considered in the decisions that affect them. They have a voice. They aren't lagging as much as they were before the wall came down Nothing would be happening at all, & they'd still be living in some kind of political & economic limbo without the reunification. You can't wait for the other side to catch up before taking action. It's the action itself that catches them up.

Remember when President Reagan went to Berlin & blustered "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"? Did it ever occur to anyone that he ignored, bypassed, & snubbed the Germans by addressing the Russians directly? Guess what? Gorbachev didn't tear down the wall. Reagan didn't tear down the wall. The respective Prime Ministers of East & West Germany, the Mayors of split Berlin, or any government entity or agency from anywhere had absolutely nothing to do with tearing down the Berlin wall & forcing reunification. The reality is that despite all the rhetoric, the German reunification was a spontaneous action by the German people east & west, & the governments of the world had to be dragged into it kicking & screaming like a bunch of brats getting their toy taken away. That's actually what happened. The toy decided not to be one anymore.



I remember watching a web show called The Vice Guide to North Korea in which the reporter traveled to North Korea and he filmed his journey. It gave me major 1984 vibes. It will probably take decades for North Koreans to be deprogrammed from the personality cult.Mass brainwashing is a myth. When living in a totalitarian regime, where local tinhorns have no compunction about executing "seditionists" to make brownie points with the monarchy, reluctance to open up to some guy with a funny accent & a camcorder is not proof or even evidence that the people buy the party line. People aren't stupid.

Orwell's one of the great fabulist fatalists, but 1984 came & went with no consequence. "Forbidden Planet" (the movie with Robbie the Robot) was set in 1978. According to Tom Swift & Robert Heinlein, we should be living on giant rotating space stations & buzzing around in flying cars by now. Heinlein has the US breaking up into regional theocracies, leading up to the "Revolt in 2100". In the last century, we saw the Soviet Union come & go. The Chinese communist experiment came & went. The colonial system crashed & burned. Empires have shattered & absolute monarchies are down to what, a dozen? The European tribal animosity that started world wars, crumbled in the formation of the EU. The dire predictions of everything falling apart haven't come to pass. There's no reason to think that they will, or that the dire predictions are/were anything but imaginary.

[notdrunk]

The toy decided not to be one anymore.

The North Korean toy is a lot different than the East Germany. For example, there is a constant worship of an individual.



Mass brainwashing is a myth.

Mass brainwashing is a fact. For example, during World War 2, the fanatical Japanese giving their lives up for the Emperor and the Bushido code. Or, the belief in Eastern Europeans being inferior to Germans and it was okay that they died in the millions.



Orwell's one of the great fabulist fatalists, but 1984 came & went with no consequence.

True; however, if you look at North Korea, a lot of the themes in 1984 is happening there.

[hippifried]

The North Korean toy is a lot different than the East Germany. For example, there is a constant worship of an individual.No there isn't. You're just buying into this bullshit that everybody else is stupid. Koreans aren't any different than you or me, & North Koreans are no different than South Koreans. They're aware of what's happening. Which individual do you worship?

Bushido code? Dude that's the medeival samurai knight's code of Japan. Not much different than the knights of the round table. How many people were ever knights. There was what, a couple dozen kamakazi pilots? It's the same stuff we grind into the cadets at the various military academies. You can't equate it to mass thinking by an entire population. We made the same claim about the Chinese during the cultural revolution. They worshiped Mao. Bullshit. Look at them today. That's one generation. 2 maybe.

The haters are still alive & well in Europe. Here too. Just read Hitler's speaches, then substitute Mexican or Muslim for Jew or Gypsy. It's the same crap that Americans were hearing about the Irish in the east & the Chinese in the west back in the 19th century. There's always somebody trying to whip up an enemy to get everybody's mind off their real problems, which usually ends up being that same somebody. There's always a hate campaign going on. That's where the propaganda comes from. For example: Back in the '90s, the term "ethnic cleansing" was coined to describe some specific actions against Serbs by Croats, yet the Serbs became our enemy, even before Kosovo, because the Croatians hired a big Madison Avenue PR firm & the Serbs didn't. Another example: In the 4th grade (1960), my geography book was published in 1946. It was good for giggles when the teacher had to correct it. There was a segment, a couple of pages long in comic book frame style, that described what happened to Germany during the Nazi period. In the 8th grade ('65), there was a push to make everybody "study" communism. The pamphlet we were handed in school was the exact same comic strip with reedited type & the swastikas swapped for the hammer & sickle. How cheap... That turned the cold war into an eyeroll for me.

So, do you really think you're getting accurate information on North Korea? You know. That place that the entire media is pissed at because they aren't allowed to go where they want?

[notdrunk]

No there isn't. You're just buying into this bullshit that everybody else is stupid. Koreans aren't any different than you or me, & North Koreans are no different than South Koreans. They're aware of what's happening. Which individual do you worship?

How do you know they are aware of what's happening? They are forced fed constant propaganda on a daily basis. Additionally, they are kept in checked with violence and the fear of starvation.



Bushido code? Dude that's the medeival samurai knight's code of Japan. Not much different than the knights of the round table. How many people were ever knights. There was what, a couple dozen kamakazi pilots? It's the same stuff we grind into the cadets at the various military academies. You can't equate it to mass thinking by an entire population. We made the same claim about the Chinese during the cultural revolution. They worshiped Mao. Bullshit. Look at them today. That's one generation. 2 maybe.

It wasn't a couple of dozen kamikaze pilots. During World War 2, how many banzai charges were carried out? An unknown number of Japanese soldiers died in useless charges believing that those charges meant no dishonor. The only reason that the Japanese put down their arms because their living God told them so. Brainwashing isn't a myth. It is a reality.



So, do you really think you're getting accurate information on North Korea? You know. That place that the entire media is pissed at because they aren't allowed to go where they want?

From what I have seen, I am getting accurate information about North Korea. Or, is there something about North Korea that I don't know?

[hippifried]

How do you know they are aware of what's happening? They are forced fed constant propaganda on a daily basis. Additionally, they are kept in checked with violence and the fear of starvation. That's exactly what everybody was told about East Germany. Everybody with a partial clue was tryiong to escape to the west, & yada yada yada... The reality is that there were just as many people going east, & hardly any of it was about defecting. Artificial lines separate families. None of them recognize it as legit. Korea's the same way. People are crossing the border every day, both ways. Whether they talk to the bozo with the camcorder or not, they talk to each other. North Koreans are literate, & they have electronic media. They're bombarded by propaganda from Kim, us, SK, the Chinese. etc... They also pick up the other broadcasts. The people of NK aren't cut off from the world. There's sanctioned travel & rail service from north to south. There's mail. There's trade with the south. They're just under someone's boot, & of course that negates any propaganda from the bootwearer. Which is it? Are they true believers, or are they held down by force? It can't be both because they're polar opposites. Who's brainwashing whom?



It wasn't a couple of dozen kamikaze pilots. During World War 2, how many banzai charges were carried out? An unknown number of Japanese soldiers died in useless charges believing that those charges meant no dishonor. The only reason that the Japanese put down their arms because their living God told them so. Brainwashing isn't a myth. It is a reality.Yeah, but if you put down the comic books for a while, your brain dries out again.

A charge is a military tactic. "Banzai" was just a battle cry. Soldiers follow orders. When they're told to charge, they charge. If they don't, they get shot for cowardice in the face of the enemy or desertion. D-day was a charge into overwhelming enemy fire. The beaches of Normandy were littered with thousands upon thousands of corpses. All contested beachhead landings are suicidal charges. If they do it, we call it crazy or fanatical. If we do it, we call it gallant. Go tell the Marines that they're brainwashed fools.



From what I have seen, I am getting accurate information about North Korea. Or, is there something about North Korea that I don't know?How can you possibly know what you're getting? We don't get accurate information about South Korea. Outside of the market reports, we don't hear anything at all unless there's a major crackdown on somebody. Did you know that the north & south began summit meetings on reunification in 2000. Not a big favorite for the Bush administration I imagine. There was a regime change in the south last year & everything's been put on hold while the sabers started rattling again. But then again, North Korea recently withdrew formally from the 1953 cease fire truce. Where's the war?

[notdrunk]

There's sanctioned travel & rail service from north to south. There's mail. There's trade with the south. They're just under someone's boot, & of course that negates any propaganda from the bootwearer. Which is it? Are they true believers, or are they held down by force? It can't be both because they're polar opposites. Who's brainwashing whom?


The North Koreans have access to channels in control of the North Korean government. If they try to get access to the BBC, for example, they would get in trouble. South Koreans traveling to NK have to get special permission from SK and NK. It isn't like going from the United States to Mexico. The only area that they don't need special permission is the Kumgangsan Tourist Region near the border. South Koreans cannot go there now because some NK guards got trigger happy and they murdered a SK woman.



A charge is a military tactic. "Banzai" was just a battle cry. Soldiers follow orders. When they're told to charge, they charge. If they don't, they get shot for cowardice in the face of the enemy or desertion. D-day was a charge into overwhelming enemy fire. The beaches of Normandy were littered with thousands upon thousands of corpses. All contested beachhead landings are suicidal charges. If they do it, we call it crazy or fanatical. If we do it, we call it gallant. Go tell the Marines that they're brainwashed fools.


Oh please. A Banzai charge was an unique thing. It was a last ditch effort to save ones honor and maybe might win. It was a tactic employed when the Japanese started to lose a lot. Surrendering was seen as dishonorable to the Japanese. That is why there was hardly no Japanese POWs in the various Pacific campaigns. While, on the European front, for example, Americans usual surrendered if the battle was lost and they were overwhelmed. They didn't needlessly die.



There was a regime change in the south last year & everything's been put on hold while the sabers started rattling again. But then again, North Korea recently withdrew formally from the 1953 cease fire truce. Where's the war?

Because North Korea is trying to make the South Koreans and the United States to do something for them. North Korea acts like a spoiled brat if they want something.

[hippifried]

The North Koreans have access to channels in control of the North Korean government. If they try to get access to the BBC, for example, they would get in trouble.Oh, that's right, I forgot. Broadcast transmissions automatically stop at borders & coastlines unless they have proper permits to cross. Is that right? Or is it that the North Koreans are so sophisticated that they have their channel sniffers everywhere & continuously monitored? Or maybe the children goosestep down to the local authorities on a regular basis to turn in their parents for trying to think about liberty or listening to the Korean equivalent of Radio Free Europe. C'mon spud, this is right out of that comic strip propaganda pamphlet I told you about earlier. This is the same crap we were being fed in the '50s, about the Soviets & the Chinese, & all the satellite states in their buffer zones. In reality, access is just turning the dial on the radio.



South Koreans traveling to NK have to get special permission from SK and NK. It isn't like going from the United States to Mexico. The only area that they don't need special permission is the Kumgangsan Tourist Region near the border.Huh? It's exactly like going to Mexico. Get outside the border front zones & the designated tourist protectorates, & you need a visa to travel in Mexico. Without that "special permission", you're an illegal alien & subject to deportation if you get caught. Same thing up here. It's all about permits & paperwork. What's your point?

Travel is currently shut down, but it has nothing to do with any single incident. The SK government changed hands last year & postponed reunification talks. The peacock dance has been a downhill spiral of tit for tat on trade & travel since. It's the typical nonsense of too many egos & not enough common sense. It's not all one sided.



Oh please. A Banzai charge was an unique thing. It was a last ditch effort to save ones honor and maybe might win. It was a tactic employed when the Japanese started to lose a lot. Surrendering was seen as dishonorable to the Japanese.Unique? Really? Well there's that famous "charge of the light brigade"... How about them 300 Spartans, eh? Oh but by all means, let's continue to ignore the 700 Thesbians who stayed, fought, & got wiped out with them. That's actually more analagous to what happened in the island hopping campaign in the Pacific theater. Those were the rear guard, defending against a direct assault on their homeland. Their duty was specific, to keep the enemy off the shores of Japan for as long as possible & do as much damage to the enemy as possible, while the main force made ready for the big assault. They were overrun by overwhelming force. They did what they could with what they had, in the situation they were in. It wasn't unique. They were patriots defending their home. Whether it was glorious & honorable gallantry or fanatical insanity depends on which side you're on & nothing else. It's all about who writes the story.



Because North Korea is trying to make the South Koreans and the United States to do something for them. North Korea acts like a spoiled brat if they want something. & this makes them different from the rest of the world, how?

All this propaganda is aimed at making Asians, all of them, appear to be inhuman or subhuman. Somehow different from us "good guys". Mostly unwestern, & ergo, to be distrusted. That way, it doesn't matter who the regional enemy nation is from week to week. It simply isn't true. Those people have the same hopes & dreams as everybody else. This is a hate campaign & needs to be recognized as such, even if it doesn't seem as virulent as the hate campaigns we've grown accustomed to. It's Klan lite, & a sucker bet.

Is Kim an asshole? Of course he is. Hell, he's set himself up as king & already desinated his youngest son as his successor. Third generation pretty much makes the move from dictatorship to monarchy an automatic assumption as far as I'm concerned. But he's their asshole! Given the fate of monarchies in general over the last few generations, I wouldn't put any bets on the Kim family's chances of holding power for long.

Make no mistake. This is all about the Korean people. They've been incredibly tolerant throughout all this craziness. WWII wasn't their war. Hell, the Korean war wasn't their war. The 38th parallel was never their idea, & once again, they're not being consulted in any of this nonsense. Think it would be too much of an imposition to ask them what they want?

[notdrunk]

Oh, that's right, I forgot. Broadcast transmissions automatically stop at borders & coastlines unless they have proper permits to cross. Is that right? Or is it that the North Koreans are so sophisticated that they have their channel sniffers everywhere & continuously monitored? Or maybe the children goosestep down to the local authorities on a regular basis to turn in their parents for trying to think about liberty or listening to the Korean equivalent of Radio Free Europe. C'mon spud, this is right out of that comic strip propaganda pamphlet I told you about earlier. This is the same crap we were being fed in the '50s, about the Soviets & the Chinese, & all the satellite states in their buffer zones. In reality, access is just turning the dial on the radio.

North Korean refugees have reported that their government have people that check radios in people's home to see if they messed with the presets. Radios are "sealed." You cannot go down to the local Radioshack and just buy a radio. The government gives you one.



Huh? It's exactly like going to Mexico. Get outside the border front zones & the designated tourist protectorates, & you need a visa to travel in Mexico. Without that "special permission", you're an illegal alien & subject to deportation if you get caught. Same thing up here. It's all about permits & paperwork. What's your point?


It goes beyond just getting a visa. For example, you have to be apart of a tour group. You cannot just go there by yourself.


Whether it was glorious & honorable gallantry or fanatical insanity depends on which side you're on & nothing else. It's all about who writes the story.

During World War 2, it was unique. The Germans didn't conduct these charges. The Italians didn't conduct these charges. When the battle/campaign was over, the surviving soldiers simply surrendered to the Allies or the Soviets. Japanese culture told them that surrendering was dishonorable. They were led to believe (hence, brainwashed) that their family would be shamed and the Emperor would not be proud of their action. As well, the evil Americans were going to kill their families and rape their women (Okinawa).



& this makes them different from the rest of the world, how?


Nowadays, usually the world does not conduct nuclear tests or conduct missiles tests for something they want. Or, pull out of a truce to be threatening and then just do nothing. Or, try to spark a war that could start World War 3.



Think it would be too much of an imposition to ask them what they want?

The South Koreans can vote for anyone they want to. I cannot say that about the North Koreans.

[Mr_Choc69]

NK is looking for people to "come to the table". That Nation is dying from the inside out. They are seeking "help" in the form of sanctions being lifted (through negotiation).

They talk a huge game. But I don't think they will follow through at this point.