Have you been discriminated against by CRAIGSLIST?

[Danielle Foxx]

Due to your sexual preference or for being a transgender?


I tried to post 4 adds seeking a roommate and all of them were flagged because it said I needed a gay or friendly roommate. Please share your story as I have given a few attorneys a call...



" Gay or friendly roommate wanted
IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY THIS ADD PLEASE DO NOT FLAG IT - JUST MOVE ON!

My name is **** and I am a trans woman seeking a gay or friendly roommate. I seek someone to rent a 1 bedroom with a bathroom in my 3 bedroom apartment. I have 1 parking spot available, laundry room in the unit. Brand new building with marble counter tops, upscale, very quiet and friendly. I have a cat as well so if you have alergies it would not be a good fit.

I seek a non smoker, no drugs, no party responsible roommate. Someone with good credit and a good job. "

Tell me why this add was flagged?

[CaptainGeech]

I have no idea. Seems like total BS. They might say its because you start by saying Gay or friendly. They might feel that as long as the person pays rent it shouldn't matter if they are bigoted or otherwise hateful. But you worded it well so I don't see how anyone could construe it as discrimination or preferential treatment against non gays. I wouldn't be surprised if the same person who has been harassing you on the phone has been tracking you online and trying to make things difficult by flagging your stuff. In the end I don't really know. Hopefully you will have better luck in the future.

[Danielle Foxx]

I have no idea. Seems like total BS. They might say its because you start by saying Gay or friendly. They might feel that as long as the person pays rent it shouldn't matter if they are bigoted or otherwise hateful. But you worded it well so I don't see how anyone could construe it as discrimination or preferential treatment against non gays. I wouldn't be surprised if the same person who has been harassing you on the phone has been tracking you online and trying to make things difficult by flagging your stuff. In the end I don't really know. Hopefully you will have better luck in the future.

Yes that is true - it is against the Fair Housing Authority to specify gender on an add, however in this case it states " GAY ORRRRRR FRIENDLY " meaning someone who is gay or anyone who is ok with it... anyone else who is not should have the right to move into my home???

[CaptainGeech]

Yes that is true - it is against the Fair Housing Authority to specify gender on an add, however in this case it states " GAY ORRRRRR FRIENDLY " meaning someone who is gay or anyone who is ok with it... anyone else who is not should have the right to move into my home???

Yeah. That's why I said you worded it well. Still in this day of frivolous lawsuits even the hint of gender or sexual preference can be questioned in a court of law. Its lame but its true.

[Danielle Foxx]

craigslist to me
show details 4:07 PM (in 11 hours)

Reply

It looks like your ad is getting flagged by the community. You may want
to take out any reference to gender in your ad.


Regards,
craigslist customer service

[RubyTS]

i'd b ur roomate! im gettin sick of payin this rent by myself!

[sugdaddie69]

I'd love to be the third wheel in that..Seriously Danielle,i believe craiglist is so paranoid right now that they have taken to going to extremes to be politically correct,yours is a case of them going overboard.

[jryah75]

I thought this was pretty obvious. I wouldn't let one of you cat people post on my website either :) Seriously, don't let them make you crazy, Danielle.

[tsntx]

just bc there are a lot of ppl on cl that just like to be hateful

even in casuals t4m ads get flagged

look in the austin tx area

theres like 3 ads posted and the rest are from "surrounding" areas

[2009AD]

Tell me why this add was flagged?

Take out the part about seeking a gay person and you should be ok.


http://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA#roommates

California - Prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, ancestry, familial status, source of income, disability, or age (CA GOVT § 12955).

[RubyTS]

tru u might just wanna say ur seeking someone open minded

[Danielle Foxx]

tru u might just wanna say ur seeking someone open minded

I am not well known for beating around the bush - why should I conform to their stupidity?

That's for the weak - I am not a weak person nor do I bow down to ignorance.

Most people would accept defeat and move on... that is why they continue to walk all over us

[RubyTS]

RIDE THAT BUS ROSA

[2009AD]

It has nothing to do with someone's "stupidity," or "ignorance," it's the law. In your state, I assume you live in Cali., you cannot mention a person's gender, religion, race, sexual orientation, et cetera, in housing rental ads. The law is meant to protect all from discrimination.

Again, this is not about bowing down or letting anyone walk over you, It's about protecting all prospective tenants/renters from discrimination. You can still rent to a gay person, you just can't say it in your ad.

Good luck with that.

http://law.onecle.com/california/government/12955.html

It shall be unlawful:
(c) For any person to make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published any notice, statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a housing accommodation that indicates any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, ancestry, familial status, source of income, or disability or an intention to make that preference, limitation, or discrimination.




tru u might just wanna say ur seeking someone open minded

I am not well known for beating around the bush - why should I conform to their stupidity?

That's for the weak - I am not a weak person nor do I bow down to ignorance.

Most people would accept defeat and move on... that is why they continue to walk all over us

[RubyTS]

i get where she's coming from. While the law is meant to protect people from discrimination the truth of the matter is it is still prevalent in society til this day! No one's gonna write an ad that says "NO Gays/trans/blacks/hispanics" but that doesn't mean they're not thinking it. Her ad doesn't say NO STR8 PPL, it just states her preference. I think in a roommate situation it should be cool. You wanna get along with the person living in ur home!

[2009AD]

Ruby, yes discrimination based on demographics will always exist. true, she did not say "no straights," but in the state of California you can't place an ad saying "looking for" a certain race, gender, nationality, sexual orientation.

She can still mention that she is a transwoman and that she is looking for a person who is "gay friendly" or "open minded."


i get where she's coming from. While the law is meant to protect people from discrimination the truth of the matter is it is still prevalent in society til this day! No one's gonna write an ad that says "NO Gays/trans/blacks/hispanics" but that doesn't mean they're not thinking it. Her ad doesn't say NO STR8 PPL, it just states her preference. I think in a roommate situation it should be cool. You wanna get along with the person living in ur home!

[Shining Star]

Hate to tell you this, but suing CL will get you now where, and the case is not likely to win, or if it did, stand up upon appeal.

CL like everyother Internet service is covered by various federal laws which make websites like CL blameless for adverts and or content others put up.

Unlike a newspaper or other print media, Internet sites do not have nor are required to have strict control over what passes through their sites. Allowing for such things as porn, child porn and probably a few other illegal things, anyone can post anything, or in your case remove something and the website cannot be held responsible.

People put up and or harrass all sorts of adverts on CL, such as house or apartment adverts that state no "blacks" or "no housing vouchers", and people have sued, only to loose because of the above mentioned laws.

The above is why despite attorneys general in several states suing or threatening to sue CL over prossing, they've gotten now where, aside from the voluntary aggreement CL entered into several months ago.

If you went to the New York Times, and wanted to place an advert that said "gay", or even "black" and was refused because of either,then you might have a case.

If CL says your advert is being flagged by the "community" and the system is removing them because that is what it does, then you are going to have a hard time in court proving CL discriminated against you personally, much less seeking the court to force a remedy.

Still, I wish you the best of British luck.

SS

[2009AD]

Hate to tell you this, but suing CL will get you now where, and the case is not likely to win, or if it did, stand up upon appeal.

??? Danielle never said anything about suing CL.


If you went to the New York Times, and wanted to place an advert that said "gay", or even "black" and was refused because of either,then you might have a case.

Wrong, the ad would be in violation of NY state law and the NY Times would refuse it. You would not have a case.

[tsntx]

i wrote a responce .... and i dont see it.... weird

whatever


anyway...


you can say you will only rent to whites as they are superior to all other races if you want

but not if youre a company or an actual business

yall sure love to turn a lame topic into a huge race war

[Shining Star]

2009AD:

Guess you missed that big "IF" at the beginning of my sentence regarding the NYT.

It all is rather becoming a moot point anyway, at least where classified adverts are concerned. Print media has been loosing share to sites like CL for several years, and the trend in only increasing. Besides being free and or low cost, advertisers can pretty much say what they like in terms of housing listings, with little or no fear from local or federal laws. Well, at least until said laws are changed.

[2009AD]

You had a response on the first page. Race war? uh? No one has turned this into any kind of war, the discussion has been civil. No, the housing law, at least in Cali, applies to companies AND individuals. You might only rent to White, Mormon, Transsexuals, you just can't state that in your ad.


i wrote a responce .... and i dont see it.... weird

whatever


anyway...


you can say you will only rent to whites as they are superior to all other races if you want

but not if youre a company or an actual business

yall sure love to turn a lame topic into a huge race war

[NYBURBS]

It has nothing to do with someone's "stupidity," or "ignorance," it's the law. In your state, I assume you live in Cali., you cannot mention a person's gender, religion, race, sexual orientation, et cetera, in housing rental ads. The law is meant to protect all from discrimination.

Again, this is not about bowing down or letting anyone walk over you, It's about protecting all prospective tenants/renters from discrimination. You can still rent to a gay person, you just can't say it in your ad.

Good luck with that.

http://law.onecle.com/california/government/12955.html

It shall be unlawful:
(c) For any person to make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published any notice, statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a housing accommodation that indicates any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, ancestry, familial status, source of income, or disability or an intention to make that preference, limitation, or discrimination.

Yea what 2009AD wrote is pretty much on point. It should be fine to keep in the whole open minded part though, as that has to do with opinion or mindset rather then preference for or against any protected class. Might not stop it from getting flagged though since that is coming from people that have an issue with your sexuality.

[AmyDaly]

Hay girl, I've been looking to move for a bit. I sent you a PM.

[Danielle Foxx]

Im confused why your seeking a roommate on craigslist? Probably the first porn star on craigslist looking for a roommate, i bet if you mentioned your celeb status it would be a piece of cake. Dont you know enough people to avoid that route miss Foxx?

I am requesting a credit report and a a clean criminal record report, as well as proof of income...

In regards to me stating someone's SEXUAL PREF

I am not stating what sexual preference they should be, however they should be FRIENDLY towards trans and gays because well... I am trans and I do have many gay friends... Besides why would I list looking for someone who isn't ok with me... wel... being me?

I am not stating they should be man or woman, trans or gay, but simply for someone who is FRIENDLY towards me and my friends.

6th time... Just got taken down as soon as it was put up

[Danielle Foxx]

I used everyone's post here to write a nice cordial letter:

I tried to post 5 adds seeking a roommate and all of them were flagged because it said I needed a gay friendly roommate. I understand that state laws protect people from discriminating based on gender or sexual preference but this is a double edge sword. You take my adds down because in it I share that I am trans, hence you are discriminating against me sharing a very important factor on someone's decision to want to share an apartment with me.

In my add I do not request someone be of a specific gender or sexual preference however I would like for them to be understanding of my lifestyle, which is pretty complexed. I am having some financial difficulties and I am desperate to find a roommate, you are not only discriminating against me but also keeping me from finding help.

You might feel that as long as the person pays rent it shouldn't matter if they are bigoted or otherwise hateful. But I worded it well, and in many instances re-worded the add so I don't see how anyone could construe it as discrimination or preferential treatment against non gays. I wouldn't be surprised if this is an employee or "community" who is flagging this add based on my sexual preference, which by law you are required to comply to FHA rules and protect me as a renter, which you are not doing.

This is what was sent to me by your customer service department:

craigslist to me
show details 4:07 PM (in 11 hours)
Reply
It looks like your ad is getting flagged by the community. You may want
to take out any reference to gender in your ad.
Regards,
craigslist customer service

Now, you mean to tell me that this is not discrimination on gender?

It has nothing to do with someone's "stupidity," or "ignorance," it's the law. In my state, you cannot mention a person's gender, religion, race, sexual orientation, et cetera, in housing rental ads. The law is meant to protect all from discrimination.

http://law.onecle.com/california/government/12955.html

It shall be unlawful:
(c) For any person to make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published any notice, statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a housing accommodation that indicates any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex,sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, ancestry, familial status, source of income, or disability or an intention to make that preference, limitation, or discrimination.

Do you get where I am coming from? While the law is meant to protect people from discrimination the truth of the matter is it is still prevalent in society til this day! No one's gonna write an ad that says "NO Gays/trans/blacks/hispanics" but that doesn't mean they're not thinking it. My ad doesn't say NO STRAIGHT PPL, it just states my preference would be someone who is understanding of my lifestyle, that being gay or straight. I think in a roommate situation it should be cool. You wanna get along with the person living in ur home!

I am not stating what sexual preference they should be, however they should be FRIENDLY towards trans and gays because well... I am trans and I do have many gay friends... Besides why would I list looking for someone who isn't ok with me... wel... being me?

I am not stating they should be man or woman, trans or gay, but simply for someone who is FRIENDLY towards me and my friends.

I believe that your company's decision to take down my adds is based only on my sexual preference, if this is incorrect please explain to me why in detail why I am making wrong assumptions on your company's inadequacy to correct this issue and continue harrassment and intolerance to my lifestyle.

[daidone]

Danielle I would love to be your roomate.

[dan_drade]

Unfortunately it is not CL, but the CL community that is doing this to you. CL will do nothing to help you other than to tell you what you can do to prevent it.

There are a lof of closed minded people out there that think people like you and I should be wiped off the face of the earth. Fortunatley for us, they are too small in numbers and to weak to do anything about it even if they wanted to. So, they do the only things that they can do to keep the planet "Free of Sin", and that is to do things like flag your post.

They really can't help it because that is the way they were raised and they are too dumb to do anything to change. Unfortunately, there will always be pepole like this, so we just have to learn to deal with it. In your case, you will have to remove any reference to being gay, open minded and transsexual. Once someone replies to you, then you can tell them. It's kind of a retared way to do things, but if you really want a roomate from CL, it's what you will have to do.

Just keep in mind that you are a bigger person than those on CL that have nothing to do with their time but flag other posters.

[RubyTS]

If the ad is coming down immediately IT IS CL

[SarahG]

Do state laws regarding housing ads even apply online? Would it apply if she placed the ad in an out of state newspaper?

The internet is often a legal limbo when it comes to stuff like this.

Placing ads online looking for LGBT friendly roommates have been common for eons, the problem is that CL uniquely removes anything any idiot red flags... and lots of LGBT stuff (regardless what it is) gets flagged quickly. IDK if its people with no life spending the day flagging LGBT cl ads, or bots.

CL would work far better if it took moderator/admin approval for a flagged ad to be taken down, instead of automatically doing it whenever strangers hit the flag button.

[Shining Star]

Did some quick checking, and federal laws exempt websites from legal liability for content they do not create, but is merely posted by others. CL was sued for ads posted which violated local and federal anti-discrimination housing laws, and the Ninth Circut Court of Appeals held that because of aforementioned federal laws, the website was not liable.

However in a different situation, the website RoomMates.com was sued, lost and the verdict upheld by the same court. At the time RoomMates.com allowed persons to create adverts on their site using pull down choices regarding race, gender, and so forth. Because of this the court found that the website (for lack of a better phrase), acted the way print media classified adverts do, in that it assisted in creating the ads, thus had to follow federal and local anti-discrimination laws.

On another front, CL's TOS does state that persons creating adverts will abide by all local and federal laws regarding discrimination. One can only assume as with the prossing uproar, CL decided to be a good citizen (or at least cover their behinds), and require persons to play nice.

[Danielle Foxx]

Did some quick checking, and federal laws exempt websites from legal liability for content they do not create, but is merely posted by others. CL was sued for ads posted which violated local and federal anti-discrimination housing laws, and the Ninth Circut Court of Appeals held that because of aforementioned federal laws, the website was not liable.

However in a different situation, the website RoomMates.com was sued, lost and the verdict upheld by the same court. At the time RoomMates.com allowed persons to create adverts on their site using pull down choices regarding race, gender, and so forth. Because of this the court found that the website (for lack of a better phrase), acted the way print media classified adverts do, in that it assisted in creating the ads, thus had to follow federal and local anti-discrimination laws.

On another front, CL's TOS does state that persons creating adverts will abide by all local and federal laws regarding discrimination. One can only assume as with the prossing uproar, CL decided to be a good citizen (or at least cover their behinds), and require persons to play nice.

Thank you for the valuable information. Is there a way of finding out what law firm or government agency brought up the first mentioned lawsuit?

In addition, they are not covering their asses by pulling my adds down, they are making my gender the reason, which is unlawful.

[tsntx]

so to see what would happen when i posted the same ad i copied your ad and headed over to my local cl

this is the warning i got upon posting.....

Stating a discriminatory preference in a housing post is illegal, is prohibited on craigslist, and can be expensive:

you can be fined more than $10,000 for each discriminatory ad, plus damages in court, plus loss of license if you are a professional


avoid phrases which could be interpreted as discriminating by race/color/origin (e.g. 'hispanic area'), religion (e.g. 'christian home'), age / familial status (e.g. 'no kids'), disability, or sexual orientation


the words you choose can cost you - get the facts and avoid being prosecuted under fair housing law

[icarus2112]

Damn if I was in Cali and looking for an apartment/room I know who I would be PM'ing LOL . Seems pretty crazy the legal hoops you gotta go through just to not waste a ton of your time and potential renters time not weeding out people that wouldnt want to be a renter due to personal issues. So do you have to wait until someone calls before you can tell them the whole Trans and gay friends stuff? can you even tell them then?

Of course if I was a potential renter you might say no after I ask "how often do you have beautiful single Transexual girlfriends coming for visits" while drooling. :lol:

[tstv_lover]

I tend to agree with icarus.

While it's clearly become a matter of principle for you Danielle, and I know you're prepared to fight it through, is it really worth while?

Why not just post an advert someplace where you will find trans and trans-friendly people - like here!! I'm sure you'll be swamped with interest :)

[Danielle Foxx]

I tend to agree with icarus.

While it's clearly become a matter of principle for you Danielle, and I know you're prepared to fight it through, is it really worth while?

Why not just post an advert someplace where you will find trans and trans-friendly people - like here!! I'm sure you'll be swamped with interest :)

I have the responsibility to use my loud mouth for a good cause ...sometimes!

I just think it's unfair and I am going to try and see if a lawyer can take the case. It isn't about me anyone nor is it only about my rights but the rights we have as americans... blah blah blah

[icarus2112]

damn right girl fight the good fight.

[2009AD]

I just think it's unfair and I am going to try and see if a lawyer can take the case. It isn't about me anyone nor is it only about my rights but the rights we have as americans... blah blah blah

Someone is flagging your ad for reasons other than your transwoman status. Could it be that stalker who leaves you messages?

Plenty of housing ads on CL mention that the person renting is gay, male, female, et cetera.

One example: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/roo/1146381727.html

The CL staff is about 30 people, they get 40 million ads a month. A lawyer would have to prove that out of those millions of ads, CL has decided to target you. I doubt you'll find a lawyer who'll take the case.


Q: How many classified ads does craigslist receive?
A: craigslist users self-publish more than 40 million new classified ads each month

Q: How many employees does craigslist have, and where are its offices located?
A: 28 of us work out of a victorian house in the Inner Sunset neighborhood of San Francisco.

[lorddigitalhighfixer]

craigslist is completely automated, and is rife with moral trolls who flag posts, and hackers paid to flag competitor posts in the buy and sell and escort section. unfortunately craigslist won't reveal how many flags it takes to take down an ad, and claim it's somewhere between 2-10,000 but I've never seen a flag threshold more than 75. I usually only need 4-10 tries to take down an ad.

if your email address was flagged once, then it only takes 1-2 flags to have your ad removed again, so cycle different gmail.com email addresses for great success