Government and Sanity

[Jamie Michelle]

Despair, Inc. ( http://www.despair.com ) is a company that makes demotivational posters, which they call Demotivators.

Below is their poster entitled Government:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/923/governmentdemotivator.jpg
Government: If You Think the Problems We Create are Bad, Just Wait Until You See Our Solutions

"A Brand New Demotivator: 'Government,'" Despair Inc. Blog, July 28, 2008 http://site.despair.com/blog/2008/07/28/a-brand-new-demotivator-government/

"Government," Despair, Inc. http://www.despair.com/government.html

When some bamboozled etatists wrote to Despair, Inc. complaining about the Government poster, below was the poster created in response, entitled Sanity:

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2319/sanity1.gif
Sanity: Minds are Like Parachutes. Just Because You've Lost Yours Doesn't Mean You Can Borrow Mine.

In the below blog post one can read about how the Sanity poster came about:

"Minds are like Parachutes ...," Despair Inc. Blog, August 6, 2008 http://site.despair.com/blog/2008/08/06/minds-are-like-parachutes/

"Sanity," Despair, Inc. http://www.despair.com/sanity.html

[Jamie Michelle]

Interestingly, Allison, the power-mad totalitarian writing from a .gov email address whose email is quoted on the Dispair Inc. Blog ("Minds are like Parachutes ...," August 6, 2008 http://site.despair.com/blog/2008/08/06/minds-are-like-parachutes/ ), mentions the U.S. government round-up list Main Core.

Main Core is the current U.S. government round-up list. Below are previous U.S. government round-up lists. Some of the below lists have actually been used against U.S. citizens, e.g., in rounding up Japanese Americans into concentration camps during World War II.

- Custodial Detention Index (C.D.I.; 1939-1941), name eventually changed to Security Index (1941-1971).

- Rabble Rouser Index, renamed the Agitator Index in March 1968.

- Communist Index, renamed the Reserve Index in 1960.

- Administrative Index (ADEX; 1971-1978), when started in 1971, it was made up of people who were formerly on the Security Index (previously the Custodial Detention Index [C.D.I.; 1939-1941]), Reserve Index (previously called the Communist Index), and Agitator Index.

- Main Core (circa 1980s-current).

Research also Rex-84 Alpha Explan (Readiness Exercise 1984, Exercise Plan; April 5-13, 1984).

For documentation on the older round-up lists, see:

"Supplementary Detailed Staff Reports on Intelligence Activities and the Rights of Americans, Book III, Final Report of the Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities," United States Senate, April 23 (Under Authority of the Order of April 14), 1976 http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIIIg.htm

"FBI Central Records System," Federation of American Scientists, August 18, 1998 http://web.archive.org/web/20051217154122/http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/is/crs.htm

For documentation on Main Core, see:

"The Last Roundup: Is the government compiling a secret list of citizens to detain under martial law?," Christopher Ketcham, Radar, May/June issue http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:axVxfwmq4gMJ:www.radaronline.com/from-the-magazine/2008/05/government_surveillance_homeland_security_main_cor e_01-print.php
http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-magazine/2008/05/government_surveillance_homeland_security_main_cor e_01.php

"Exposing Bush's historic abuse of power: Salon has uncovered new evidence of post-9/11 spying on Americans. Obtained documents point to a potential investigation of the White House that could rival Watergate.," Tim Shorrock, Salon.com, July 23, 2008 http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/07/23/new_churchcomm/print.html
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/07/23/new_churchcomm/

"Main Core: New Evidence Reveals Top Secret Government Database Used in Bush Spy Program," Amy Goodman interview of Tim Shorrock, Democracy Now!, July 25, 2008 http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/25/main_core_new_evidence_reveals_top

[hippifried]

Well thanks for being so upbeat.

The optimist sees the glass half full.
The pessimist sees the glass half empty.

The rest of us just finish it & go for the refill. ;)

[Jamie Michelle]

Well thanks for being so upbeat.

The optimist sees the glass half full.
The pessimist sees the glass half empty.

The rest of us just finish it & go for the refill. ;)

That wasn't the point of my posts. While the company which made these posters is named Despair, Inc., and their demotivational posters they call Demotivators, the above posters are quite veridical, even if funny. My above posts weren't a commentary on optimism or pessimism, but rather on the destructive insanity called government.

[hippifried]

Well, we've all seen what happens without one.

There's no government to stop anyone who wants to from moving to Somalia.

[Oli]

There's no government to stop anyone who wants to from moving to Somalia.

Nice line Hippi

[thx1138]

The problem is that over time government becomes more and more preoccupied over its own survival than the survival of its citizens. Ever increasing vindictiveness is a sure clue a subtle transformation is occuring.

[thx1138]

where's chef mike: aren't you going to give jamie a tin foil hat award?

[trish]

The problem is that over time government becomes more and more preoccupied over its own survival than the survival of its citizens.

Whatever could you mean by this? From its very inception, every government is concerned with its survival. I would agree that it is a problem when those governments are monarchies or tyrannies. On the other hand, the survival of a government of, by and for the people is by definition synonymous with the survival of the freedoms and rights of its citizens.

Perhaps your emphasis was on the word, “preoccupied.” If a citizenry becomes preoccupied with their own survival, they become paranoid of imagined threats from without and within (not unlike some tinfoil hatters we know and love). I agree, that’s a problem too.

[thx1138]

They become preoccupied when their lives are threatened by an ever increasing despotism.

[trish]

They become preoccupied when their lives are threatened by an ever increasing despotism.

Of course, but how is that relevant to a people who are integrated into a government of, by and for the people? We’ve got ordinary citizens on school-boards, park-boards, zoning boards, county-boards, state boards of education and business; we have citizen aldermen, mayors, state representatives etc. all the way up to congressmen, senators and the president. Anyone can be involved and many, many are.

If you’re preoccupied with the threat of despotism, you’re just not getting out enough. Stop masturbating the day away and look around. There are active, civic minded people in your very neighborhood. Wake up, rub your eyes and connect the dots. We have a government of the people, by the people and for the people.

I’m not saying we don’t have to be mindful of the separation and balance of powers; nor am I implying there no abuses of position and power. But imminently threatened by despotism, we are not.

If your paranoia persists for more than four hours, I suggest you see a mental health councilor.

[NYBURBS]

They become preoccupied when their lives are threatened by an ever increasing despotism.

Of course, but how is that relevant to a people who are integrated into a government of, by and for the people? We’ve got ordinary citizens on school-boards, park-boards, zoning boards, county-boards, state boards of education and business; we have citizen aldermen, mayors, state representatives etc. all the way up to congressmen, senators and the president. Anyone can be involved and many, many are.

If you’re preoccupied with the threat of despotism, you’re just not getting out enough. Stop masturbating the day away and look around. There are active, civic minded people in your very neighborhood. Wake up, rub your eyes and connect the dots. We have a government of the people, by the people and for the people.

I’m not saying we don’t have to be mindful of the separation and balance of powers; nor am I implying there no abuses of position and power. But imminently threatened by despotism, we are not.

If your paranoia persists for more than four hours, I suggest you see a mental health councilor.

I would have to strongly disagree with you here. There has been a consistent move to solidify power among a select few in this nation since around the time of our founding. However, that centralization of power has picked up a significant amount of steam as of late.

Many of the anti-terrorist laws, surveillance programs, and other government programs as of late are a direct threat to individual rights. This does not mean that I think the NSA or FBI are going to come busting through my door at any moment, but there is still reason for concern in this nation.

I know you and I disagree on a great many things, and this includes the centralization of power that has taken place over the past 100 or so years. Yet while I can understand that there is a legitimate argument that some change was necessary, at the end of the day it is, in my opinion, an indisputable fact that 435 representatives and 100 senators for over 300 million people is far from democratic. That boils down to approx 689,655 people for every member of the House of Representatives (if I use 300 mil as the population). Ask yourself how much of a voice you really have if most of the decisions nowadays are being made in a legislature with that type of citizen to representative ratio.

Now keep in mind I am not fan of unadulterated democracy (since most mobs scare the shit out of me), but this is not even a representative democracy at this point. Rather it is a council of aristocrats who hold onto their seats for decades, and with each passing year seem to find a way to have a greater and greater say in our day to day lives. You might call all of this paranoia but I'll stick to calling it justifiable alarm.

[hippifried]

The sky is falling!

[thx1138]

And despite all that the bodies continue to pile up. Police continue to kill people (usually innocent). The internal weapons trade continues to flourish. Job destruction continues apace while the electronic surveillance of all Americans continues unbated. (Including yours). Calling me paranoid is an ad hominem attack BTW. I thought you were a nuclear physicist who moonlights as an escort. Where do you get the time to study mental diseases?

[trish]

You repost my entire response and claim to disagree with it strongly. But the contention, however strong, is not clear. You add the following qualifier to your statement of “alarm”:


This does not mean that I think the NSA or FBI are going to come busting through my door at any moment, but there is still reason for concern in this nation. __NYBURBS

This does not seem to be in strong opposition to my own caveat:
I’m not saying we don’t have to be mindful of the separation and balance of powers; nor am I implying there no abuses of position and power. But imminently threatened by despotism, we are not.__trish.

I agree, and you’ve read my complaints before, that the executive branch as accumulated powers that were once reserved for the legislative branch. Most notably, the executive now has de-facto power to declare war. This, I believe happen under Eisenhower. But we have also added the powers of the patriot act etc. Still, we are far from threat of despotism.

We have booted a number of people out of office in the last two elections, changing the political face of both houses. People can write and speak to their representatives in both houses. I live in a tiny Midwestern town and I get to meet and speak with my congressional representatives and senators several times a year. There’s a reason these guys campaign as soon as they get in office: we can vote them out. Because they’re always campaigning, they’re usually within shouting distance of any potential voter.

Moreover, the tentacles of government do not stop with the two houses. As I’ve mentioned in my post above, there are federal, state, county, township and city governments with school boards, zoning boards, etc. etc. etc. that integrate all of us into one self-governing whole. That’s a lot of power, distributed over a lot of people; a lot of opportunity for abuse, but a lot of distributive checks and balances against the threat of despotic rule.

[trish]

thx writes:

Police continue to kill people (usually innocent).
Do you have any evidence that the police in the U.S. usually kill innocent people?

Your original paranoia seems to be focused upon the “government” (something which is in your conception somehow separate from the people):

The problem is that over time government becomes more and more preoccupied over its own survival than the survival of its citizens.
Yet the problems you cite are those generated by the entrepreneurial spirit:

The internal weapons trade continues to flourish. Job destruction continues apace…
Granted you also cite:

the electronic surveillance of all Americans continues unbated.
But the unabated part is not quite correct.


Calling me paranoid is an ad hominem attack BTW.
True, had I actually done so. What I said was,

"If you’re preoccupied with the threat of despotism, you’re just not getting out enough…. If your paranoia persists for more than four hours, I suggest you see a mental health councilor."

I can’t help it if you identify with the hypotheticals.


I thought you were a nuclear physicist who moonlights as an escort.
Wrong on both counts.

Where do you get the time to study mental diseases?
I don’t, that’s why I suggested seeing a professional.

[NYBURBS]

I disagreed with what I took as the overall sentiment of your original post. Essentially I took your position to be that nothing here goes beyond some bureaucratic problems that can be corrected easily; I know that we have different takes on the position of government and how benign it is. Look at your comfort level when it comes to the representation ratio, it illustrates how we just seem to fundamentally disagree on some things since I see it as an outrage and you see it as no big deal.


We have booted a number of people out of office in the last two elections, changing the political face of both houses. People can write and speak to their representatives in both houses. I live in a tiny Midwestern town and I get to meet and speak with my congressional representatives and senators several times a year. There’s a reason these guys campaign as soon as they get in office: we can vote them out. Because they’re always campaigning, they’re usually within shouting distance of any potential voter.

Moreover, the tentacles of government do not stop with the two houses. As I’ve mentioned in my post above, there are federal, state, county, township and city governments with school boards, zoning boards, etc. etc. etc. that integrate all of us into one self-governing whole. That’s a lot of power, distributed over a lot of people; a lot of opportunity for abuse, but a lot of distributive checks and balances against the threat of despotic rule.

Trish even in a dictatorship you would see local boards comprised of some everyday people, but that does not change the fact that they are all controlled by a dictator. As for the Congress being replaced, it is all still coming from the same small circles. There most definitely is a political aristocracy going on in this country, and far too much power has been entrusted to them.

If the power to regulate most everything now resides in the national government (and it really is close to most everything), along with possessing an unadulterated taxing power, then the Congress essentially controls all the key issues that any local board or power might be giving the illusion of exercising power over.

[hippifried]

Most notably, the executive now has de-facto power to declare war. This, I believe happen under Eisenhower.You can trace it back to Jefferson & the Barbary wars. That was the founders themselves. Eisenhower just got carried away with the CIA & lost the handle. Truman got us into Korea & we're still there 50 years later under a tenuous cease fire.

We need to get out of the war biz. We need to get out of the perpetual war mindset.

[trish]

Jefferson and Truman, eh? I should have looked it up. Thanks hippiefried.

I wondering, NYBURBS, what representative to citizen ratio you would consider to be appropriate for a republic? Evidently 1.78 ppm (1.78 parts per million is approximately 1 representative per 560747 citizens = 300 million divided by 535 congressmen and senators) is, by your estimation, way to small. As you say, an “unadulterated democracy” is nothing but a mob. So there is a balance to be struck here. Too big and the House of Representatives becomes not only inefficient, but a scary mob. Too small and there’s insufficient representation. To my mind, 435 representatives trying to make a decision is already pushing the brink of credibility. Should we double its size? Can 870 representatives avoid gridlock and make coherent, intelligent decisions? Perhaps. What would be the ratio then? Answer: a mere 970/300mil = 3.2 ppm; still pretty small. Perhaps you like to see the order of magnitude of the ratio change. Perhaps 10 ppm would be better. Okay that would require 3000 representatives. That’s 5.6 times the 535 representatives we have now. Once we hire secretaries and aides for all of them that would increase the size of the legislative branch of the federal government at least 6 fold. It certainly doesn’t sound like the sort of proposal that would come from a libertarian.

Another alternative is to just forget the federal government, forget the Union. Just break up into 50 separate entities. If there’s no Union, there’s no worry about not being sufficiently represented in it. Of course that’s not the sort of proposal that would come from a patriot.

thx was complaining that we currently are threatened by “ever increasing despotism.” If his language is to be taken as accurately stating his beliefs (which is questionable, I agree), we already live under a despot and his despotism is increasing. If you, NYBURBS, thought this were true, I should think your response would be a little less measured than one of “justifiable alarm.”

Yes, there has been a shift of powers over the decades (according to hippiefried, over the centuries) to the executive. Perhaps it’s a cause for alarm. It’s certainly not despotism.

[thx1138]

The Movie They Didn't Want You to See


By Stacy Peralta
Posted April 7, 2009

It seemed so obvious to me,
a slam-dunk, a downright compelling true life American story.

The story of how the Crips and Bloods
-- two of the world's most 'iconic' gangs -- have been allowed to wage a virtual
war within one of the richest cities in the world for 4 decades, a war that has
taken over 15,000 lives in that time.


Yet I couldn't find any studio or production company interested in financing
my documentary. I went door to door, pitching my project to all of the 'right'
people in Hollywood. All of them said
it was a great idea and needed to be done -- but no one would write a check.



This went on for close to a year until I finally
met a man who showed a glimmer of interest.


His name was Baron Davis and he's an NBA All Star point guard
currently playing for the Los Angeles Clippers. His initial interest
seemed obvious, he had grown up in South Los Angeles and had
first hand experience of the everyday violence that accompanies
life there and he wanted to do something to help heal his community.

He said he was primarily interested in financing a documentary that
would help draw compassionate attention to the gang wars that have
consumed his community for over four decades.

After weeks of talking back and forth he agreed to put up 50% of the budget.

So now all I needed to do was find the other half.
I thought that would be a piece of cake. It wasn't.

Another eight months went by and nothing.

No one was interested even though I've got 50% of the budget covered.
So I began wondering what I could say in my pitch that I wasn't saying
to get people interested.

I needed to say something about this subject that was more complete
than what they've learned from the evening news, the local newspapers
and gangsta rap.

So I came up with a question to pose to potential funders:

"If affluent white teenagers in Beverly Hills
were forming neighborhood gangs, arming themselves with automatic
assault rifles and killing other affluent white teenagers who were also
living in upscale neighborhoods and were also arming themselves with
AK 47s and shooting to kill, what would the response of our society be?

Would society respond or would society ignore it?

Would our government respond, if so,
how would our government respond?"


Well I finally hit on something because it was this question that


I asked a Silicon Valley businessman named Steve Luczo.
He thought for a moment and then answered:

"Affluent white kids would never be allowed to gang-bang as
our society would do whatever means was necessary to make
sure a problem of this magnitude was stopped immediately."


Everyone else I asked this question to said something very similar:

"Our society and our government would never allow white kids to do this.

Everything would be put into place to prevent it, all the necessary programs
and resources would be funded to make sure something as tragic as gang-
banging would never take hold in the white community."


So with Baron Davis and Steve Luczo in place as co-financiers I got to make
my documentary film; Crips and Bloods, Made in America and I made this film

because as a citizen of the United States and a native of Los Angeles, I could
not understand how this problem of gang violence, now entering its fifth decade
with more than 15,000 dead, has gone on for so long in the African American
community of South Los Angeles without any effective solution.


It didn't make sense to me how this could happen year in and year out,
decade by decade without our government finding an effective remedy.

We Americans defeated Nazi Germany and Japan in a single war and
in far less than a decade yet we can't defeat gang violence.


I made the film in over a year and a half period and
I was able to meet with gang members of all ages,

12 to 65, current and former, Bloods and Crips, and sets from many
different neighborhoods spread throughout the affected region.

It was so troubling to me to see how confused these young men
are and how hurt so many of them seem to be without any idea of why.

They know that life is different 15 to 20 minutes in either direction
from where they live but they don't know why it's different.

They don't understand why things are so bad where they live and
they don't understand why no one from the outside seems to care.

They don't understand why there so few job opportunities in their
community and why are so many of their fathers, uncles and friends
are serving time in the penitentiary?



The more time I spent with them in their community the more I began
to see a far different America than the America I was raised in. In fact
the America I was raised in, average middle class America, has very
little resemblance to the America these young men grow up in.


It's not just that most of these young men come from broken homes,
it's that most are born into non-homes of unwed teenage girls who
were also born to unwed teenage girls, on and on.

Ask them and they will tell you they have never sat down at a dinner
table with a mother and father present. These young men attend public
schools that are at the very bottom end of the American educational
food chain, less learning centers than just straight out day care centers.

From a tender young age they see dead bodies in their neighborhood streets,
they hear helicopters flying over day and night, and the sound of gunfire is as
common as birds chirping.

Most cannot venture out of their own neighborhoods as doing so can
lead to being gunned down. These young men live in conditions that
most of us would consider un-American with no traces of the American
dream.


And through the entire process of making this film, I realized that if we
are ever going to break this cycle of violence, we need to find a way to
look at these young men with a compassionate frame of mind.

Stopping gang violence is going to require that we understand that
conditions in these communities are only perpetuating the problem
and if those same conditions were suddenly found in affluent white
communities perhaps we would look at this problem differently.


My film premiered to standing ovations
at the Sundance Film Festival and is now
playing in selected theaters across the country.


It is my very deep hope that the film will help motivate a much-needed
dialogue on this subject, a subject that affects not just the African
American community of South LA, but ethnic minorities in cities across
this nation and indeed across the world.


Stacy Peralta
is the award-winning director of
Dogtown, Z-Boys and Riding Giants.
DVD and theatrical listings are available from www.cripsandbloodsmovie.com.

[thx1138]

Police kill many innocent: check out the wrongful death awards - quite a few. You have NO right to call me paranoid - you have no state issued license that certifies you are qualified and competent to diagnose abnormal mental conditions from chatboard postings.

[thx1138]

survivalists 2.0 regular people get ready for the worst -http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/65600.html

[thx1138]

Feds raids downtown Dallas building - http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/tv/stories/wfaa090402_lj_fbi.96b29611.html

[trish]

You claimed, thx, that the police usually kill innocent people:

Police continue to kill people (usually innocent).
In contexts where two types of outcomes are possible (e.g. the victim was innocent or the victim was guilty) most people would interpret the word “usually” to mean more than 50% of the time.

But now you’re backing down. Now you claim the police kill many innocent people.

Police kill many innocent:
The word “many” usually refers to absolute numbers rather than a percentage. Even 2% could be “many”. Of course when it comes to innocent people being killed, even one is too many.
And then you back down further in the same sentence and “many” turns into “quite a few,”

…check out the wrongful death awards - quite a few.
No assessment is attempted on your part to ascertain whether these few are accidental, deliberate or intentional. Nevertheless, you take the non-statistic to be evidence of

…an ever increasing despotism.
Yeah…right. You’re not paranoid…you’re just a fear monger and an intellectual sloth.


You have NO right to call me paranoid - you have no state issued license that certifies you are qualified and competent to diagnose abnormal mental conditions from chatboard postings.
You have NO right to tell me I have no right to call you paranoid – you have no state issued license that certifies you are qualified and competent to offer legal advice and practice law, nor do have the legal authority to practice jurisprudence and rule on an individual’s civil rights in chatroom postings.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[hippifried]

Yeah…right. You’re not paranoid…you’re just a fear monger and an intellectual sloth.Hey THX,

For a 50% contingency + expenses, I'll take Trish to court for ya & prove that you have more than 3 toes. Just stay away from the cutlery till after the appeals. :lol:

[El Nino]

Cops virtually do whatever they want. When an obscene police brutality incident occurs, and you have law enforcement investigating law enforcement; what do you think will happen? Well, from what I have seen, they usually protect their own... Arm yourself with cameras.

[trish]

Cops virtually do whatever they want.
Now there’s an utterly ambiguous claim. In most instances a sentence like that is understood to be universally quantified. For example, the claim, “Life requires energy” (whether true or not) is understood to mean “All life requires energy.” Are you claiming then that all cops virtually do whatever they want? Each and every one? I thought not.

Now how about the word, “virtually”? What the fuck does that mean? I have to hand it to you, by inserting that one two-bit word into your claim, you rendered the meaning so ambiguous it’s virtually :) impossible to falsify. So okay, I’ll agree: cops virtually do whatever they want. On the other hand, it remains consistent to maintain: cops literally can’t do whatever they want.

Suppose I grant that some cops abuse their power and occasionally internal affairs sometimes turns a blind eye (though there’s little general reason to see why they would). This concession is still a far cry from demonstrating we live within “an ever increasing despotism”.

[hippifried]

Cops virtually do whatever they want. When an obscene police brutality incident occurs, and you have law enforcement investigating law enforcement; what do you think will happen? Well, from what I have seen, they usually protect their own... Arm yourself with cameras.But this isn't something new. Y'all talk like this is going to happen. That it's coming. As if it's not a situation that's been going on for as long as humans have been gathering together in permanent settlements.

There's always been abuse of power. Over the past few centuries, there's been a concerted effort to limit power in order to limit abuses. Even moreso since the Nuremberg trials. There's only a handful of monarchs left in the world. But the reality is that cops don't answer to the head of state. They don't answer to to the top of the power structure at all, usually. They're not military. They don't follow orders like a soldier. They're left to their own devices & judgments. As the public guardians, they're in the confrontation business. We keep adding more & more laws that we expect them to enforce, but we gripe like hell if those laws are enforced against us. "How come you're not out there stopping real crime?" Every cop hears that every day, from all levels of society. It doesn't take long for everybody to become the enemy. They have granted powers & human foibles. The problem of abuse becomes systemic, from the emperor to the samurai.

[El Nino]

Trish, Have you ever had an ounce of heroin planted in your car by the LAPD? You would have a different tone if you did. On a side note, the evidence that points to local police forces becoming militarized and federalized is of overwhelming proportions and staring you in the face, more and more, everyday....

[trish]

Trish, Have you ever had an ounce of heroin planted in your car by the LAPD? You would have a different tone if you did.

I'm a black tgirl. You don't think I've had unpleasant encounters with the cops? So if one cop planted heroin in my car, I would accuse every cop of abuse of power and conclude we live under an increasing despotism. You know me not.




...the evidence that points to local police forces becoming militarized and federalized is of overwhelming proportions

Saying there's evidence isn't evidence.

[El Nino]

There's a shit ton... Google it

[El Nino]

http://www.progress.org/archive/fold121.htm

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=police+federalization&aq=f&oq=

[El Nino]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=police+militarization&aq=0&oq=police+milit

Don't be so quick to judge Trish... Being ignorant of any evidence, does not substantiate a claim that there is none. I just gave u 220,000 of them

[trish]

Google_what a wonderful way to waste your whole day. You do realize that none of what you posted (reliable or not) establishes that police usually kill the innocent, nor does it establish we live under a growing despotism.

[hippifried]

Well I looked at the Google stuff & it does establish a couple of things:

The John Birch society hasn't totally crumbled out of existence yet. But then again, the flat earth society is still around too.

This whine is google documented back to the 1920s & '30s. It actually goes back to the policies of the federalists under the administrations of George Washington & John Adams, & our original neocon Alexander Hamilton, who "virtually" controlled the government through control of the purse strings.

Ah yes, those fabulous founders. Maybe we should return to the good old days & have Biden Shoot Paulson.

[El Nino]

please

[chefmike]

You claimed, thx, that the police usually kill innocent people:

Police continue to kill people (usually innocent).
In contexts where two types of outcomes are possible (e.g. the victim was innocent or the victim was guilty) most people would interpret the word “usually” to mean more than 50% of the time.

But now you’re backing down. Now you claim the police kill many innocent people.

Police kill many innocent:
The word “many” usually refers to absolute numbers rather than a percentage. Even 2% could be “many”. Of course when it comes to innocent people being killed, even one is too many.
And then you back down further in the same sentence and “many” turns into “quite a few,”

…check out the wrongful death awards - quite a few.
No assessment is attempted on your part to ascertain whether these few are accidental, deliberate or intentional. Nevertheless, you take the non-statistic to be evidence of

…an ever increasing despotism.
Yeah…right. You’re not paranoid…you’re just a fear monger and an intellectual sloth.


You have NO right to call me paranoid - you have no state issued license that certifies you are qualified and competent to diagnose abnormal mental conditions from chatboard postings.
You have NO right to tell me I have no right to call you paranoid – you have no state issued license that certifies you are qualified and competent to offer legal advice and practice law, nor do have the legal authority to practice jurisprudence and rule on an individual’s civil rights in chatroom postings.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Looks like thxforthetinfoil has been hoist by his own paranoid petard once again.

Same as it ever was....

[thx1138]

http://www.alternet.org/rights/44455/ & http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/health&id=6620623 Did they deserve to die?