I'm prepared for the hate mail

[Jimmy W]

I'll offer this as an opinion nobody asked for and I'm sure I'll be told to mind my own business many times over but please believe that I only mean well. Most girls on this site have been born with such incredible natural beauty that I'm astounded that they would alter that and undergo any kind of facial surgery to the extent that they, in my opinion, barely resemble the beautiful human being they were born to be. I applaud anyone who does what is necessary to look more like the person they feel like on the inside, but it saddens me to see some of the most beautiful people on the planet feel the need to go to sometimes extreme, but not always, cartoonish lengths to become their true self. Please look in the mirror and see how beautiful you already are! Just the way you look right now! Perfect and very much loved by all of us! Not that our opinion does or should matter, I know mine shouldn't, but consider what I've said. OK? You are Beautiful the way you are right now.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

Name names................................

I got ya back, if you get hate mail call em out, I'll cuss em out for ya

[jjhill]

Name names................................

I got ya back, if you get hate mail call em out, I'll cuss em out for ya


I'm my brothas keeper lol

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

hold up

I aint Wesley Snipes Black @ JJ

don't put that label on me

[jjhill]

hold up

I aint Wesley Snipes Black @ JJ

don't put that label on me

lmfao :lol: my bad bro

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

lol, you do realize we just hijacked the fuck outta this thread................

good job

[jjhill]

lol yea we did!
i'm starting to get good at this lol

[Alyssa87]

you're talking about people who have defied the wishes of loved ones to do and live as they please.
(living as the opposite sex)

i understand that you may like these people for the way they look now, but its not about you, or anyone else for that matter.

transitioning is highly personal.
personally, i find it frustrating to hear any unsolicited feedback about my plans for surgeries and such.
and i'm careful to skate around conversation that may lead to it.

[Bob's Tgirls]

I understand what you're talking about. I've seen a few who looked great when they started. Then they had too much surgery and in my opinion ended up looking less passable than when they started.

[phobun]

you're talking about people who have defied the wishes of loved ones to do and live as they please.
(living as the opposite sex)

i understand that you may like these people for the way they look now, but its not about you, or anyone else for that matter.

transitioning is highly personal.
personally, i find it frustrating to hear any unsolicited feedback about my plans for surgeries and such.
and i'm careful to skate around conversation that may lead to it.
He specifically mentioned facial surgery, and my impression is that he was referring to people who over-do it with plastic surgery. And there are several such people here on HA forum who have overdone it. I doubt anyone will name names... hearing this sort of criticism would hurt twice given that they actually paid to end up so cartoonish in appearance.

[Alyssa87]

you're talking about people who have defied the wishes of loved ones to do and live as they please.
(living as the opposite sex)

i understand that you may like these people for the way they look now, but its not about you, or anyone else for that matter.

transitioning is highly personal.
personally, i find it frustrating to hear any unsolicited feedback about my plans for surgeries and such.
and i'm careful to skate around conversation that may lead to it.
He specifically mentioned facial surgery, and my impression is that he was referring to people who over-do it with plastic surgery. And there are several such people here on HA forum who have overdone it. I doubt anyone will name names... hearing this sort of criticism would hurt twice given that they actually paid to end up so cartoonish in appearance.

i guess thats the point of a message board. voice your opinion.

but reguardless of how you feel someone looks, or how badly you would like them to change or not change to suit your liking, i think its better to take the high road.

it breaks my heart when i see people here criticizing how some girls look.
or feeling superior based on aesthetics.

as if their value as a person is somehow lessened because they changed in a way you (the collective you- not you phobun) preferred they didnt.

[phobun]

you're talking about people who have defied the wishes of loved ones to do and live as they please.
(living as the opposite sex)

i understand that you may like these people for the way they look now, but its not about you, or anyone else for that matter.

transitioning is highly personal.
personally, i find it frustrating to hear any unsolicited feedback about my plans for surgeries and such.
and i'm careful to skate around conversation that may lead to it.
He specifically mentioned facial surgery, and my impression is that he was referring to people who over-do it with plastic surgery. And there are several such people here on HA forum who have overdone it. I doubt anyone will name names... hearing this sort of criticism would hurt twice given that they actually paid to end up so cartoonish in appearance.

i guess thats the point of a message board. voice your opinion.

but reguardless of how you feel someone looks, or how badly you would like them to change or not change to suit your liking, i think its better to take the high road.

it breaks my heart when i see people here criticizing how some girls look.
or feeling superior based on aesthetics.

as if their value as a person is somehow lessened because they changed in a way you (the collective you- not you phobun) preferred they didnt.
There is a sort of Michael Jackson syndrome in which people pursue plastic surgery to their detriment. Unfortunately, they won't often listen to friends who try to tell them to quit while they're ahead, but they will listen to anyone who will suggests more work. A problem is that by the time they have an undesirable outcome, it is obviously too late. Yes it breaks my heart to see people criticizing how girls look, but I've noticed some of the goofiest looking, plasticized girls on HA forum are the first ones to suggest "maybe get such-and-such done."

[Alyssa87]

: )

[Fox]

I wouldn't presume to tell someone what they should do with themselves (regarding this), but I do agree about going too far.

[APD2]

i guess thats the point of a message board. voice your opinion.

but reguardless of how you feel someone looks, or how badly you would like them to change or not change to suit your liking, i think its better to take the high road.

it breaks my heart when i see people here criticizing how some girls look.
or feeling superior based on aesthetics.

as if their value as a person is somehow lessened because they changed in a way you (the collective you- not you phobun) preferred they didnt.

If the girls are getting the plastic surgery done for themselves,why would they give a fuck what a bunch of strangers on the internet think? :?

[Alyssa87]

i guess thats the point of a message board. voice your opinion.

but reguardless of how you feel someone looks, or how badly you would like them to change or not change to suit your liking, i think its better to take the high road.

it breaks my heart when i see people here criticizing how some girls look.
or feeling superior based on aesthetics.

as if their value as a person is somehow lessened because they changed in a way you (the collective you- not you phobun) preferred they didnt.

If the girls are getting the plastic surgery done for themselves,why would they give a fuck what a bunch of strangers on the internet think? :?

just because they do what they want surgically, doesnt mean theyre impervious to insults.

[APD2]

i guess thats the point of a message board. voice your opinion.

but reguardless of how you feel someone looks, or how badly you would like them to change or not change to suit your liking, i think its better to take the high road.

it breaks my heart when i see people here criticizing how some girls look.
or feeling superior based on aesthetics.

as if their value as a person is somehow lessened because they changed in a way you (the collective you- not you phobun) preferred they didnt.

If the girls are getting the plastic surgery done for themselves,why would they give a fuck what a bunch of strangers on the internet think? :?

just because they do what they want surgically, doesnt mean theyre impervious to insults.

Oh come on.For every guy criticizing your surgical choice, they'll be someone else drooling over you.

Anyway,a lot of guys here seem to care less about a girl's face,than the penis between her legs. 8)

[russtafa]

a glock will take care of all insults or a 24 stone tongan

[sucka4chix]

Everyone knows what the OP is talking about-- many girls go way over board. Someone ( a girl) just posted pics of another girls unusual face not long ago, so it's not just guys who can see it.
The fact of the matter is this is a mental condition. Many girls get addicted to plastic surgery, so they continue to get surgery that's unnecessary. And many others have self esteem issues, and no matter how many times you tell them to look in the mirror, they can't see a beautiful person. Oddly some think looking freakish is cute.
In the south alotta sistas go for the saddle bag phony looking hips and cartoonish cheek implants. Looks ridiculous to me, but if it makes you happy, I guess that's all that matters, right?

[Helvis2012]

Yes, yes.

[jesseflo]

its all about natural and moderation for me. noone even knew i had any surgery until i said it.

[fred41]

Out of curiosity- at what point would some of you be 100% honest when someone asks you how her surgery looks ?(assuming of course...it isn't good)

[JeniferTS]

Like Alyssa said, it's all about personal preference. Some transwomen are going for the "cartoonish" look and if that makes them happy, more power to them.

[Justawannabe]

I'm all for a girl getting what she thinks she needs as long as the surgeons are being completely honest about what the actual outcomes are likely to be. To many surgeons let their financial interest overwhelm their ethical interests, and oversell the likely results. Worse is they downplay the risks.

I've seen a lot of nerve damage around and very visible scars. Makes me sad cause I know the girls were told the scars would be 'virtually invisible' or 'minimal' and any numbness or muscle trouble would be short lived.

You already have to risk so much to transition, I think the girls get desensitized to risk. They stop really weighing possible side effects vs the actual real gains. I know my sample is small to make such a statement, but it is the one reason I actually like to see posts like this one, which don't name names.

At least with posts like this there is some voices out there balancing the ones encouraging the girls to go further.

[transmaven]

It's a *terrible* problem with no solution.

[Tika]

There's actually a relatively simple solution. Stop adoring women that get tons of plastic surgery. Positive feedback ensures that the Kelly Shores, Wendy Williams and the like will keep chasing plastic surgery.

It's about insecurity. Most transsexuals get into a mindset where they literally hate their bodies and the more surgery they get, the more they feel they're distancing themselves from their original body.

Self-acceptance is a good thing. Realism is a good thing. If you want to look like a freakish cartoon character, whatever. Don't go crying to anyone when your face, hips, breasts and/or ass droops to your ankles in 10 years because of all the silicone running through your tissue. Don't be upset because you've lost nerve sensitivity due to repeatedly getting your body cut into for some vague sense of "improvement".

Chasing some plasticized porn star look is ridiculous. You can't airbrush reality. In 10 or 15 years, when your looks fade no matter what, and your body's rejected all the crap you've put into it, what then? Why not take it easy, realize that you have the rest of your life to think about and not sacrifice your future for a few years worth of "good looks"?

[bte]

I'll offer this as an opinion nobody asked for and I'm sure I'll be told to mind my own business many times over but please believe that I only mean well. Most girls on this site have been born with such incredible natural beauty that I'm astounded that they would alter that and undergo any kind of facial surgery to the extent that they, in my opinion, barely resemble the beautiful human being they were born to be. I applaud anyone who does what is necessary to look more like the person they feel like on the inside, but it saddens me to see some of the most beautiful people on the planet feel the need to go to sometimes extreme, but not always, cartoonish lengths to become their true self. Please look in the mirror and see how beautiful you already are! Just the way you look right now! Perfect and very much loved by all of us! Not that our opinion does or should matter, I know mine shouldn't, but consider what I've said. OK? You are Beautiful the way you are right now.

Dude, I agree with you. But at the end of the day, it's not our opinion that matters. It's the woman's opinion. I don't know if anyone else said this, since I didn't read all the other comments. I seen women who think they are ugly and they were drop dead gorgeous. She had surgery and she looked like a ghoulish version of herself. It depends on how the woman sees herself in the mirror and whether or not she is happy with it.

[blonde_sweetheart]

It's about insecurity. Most transsexuals get into a mindset where they literally hate their bodies and the more surgery they get, the more they feel they're distancing themselves from their original body.



you pretty much hit the money right there! That and I think the other major thing is,when you don't have anyone who appreciates you or is saying good job or you look great,you begin to seek that out and the first thing you want to change is the way you look.You want to look like someone or something else because the way YOU look yourself isn't doing you any favors.It's all about finding acceptance through other people,especially guys.Because who wants to be alone?

[astridgirl]

Of course its all about insecurity!! We were all born boys and felt a strong enough psychological pull that we chemically castrate ourselves and go through great lengths even as youngsters and teenagers to get hormones and anything sometimes that will make us match our mental image of who we know we should have been. Its called Gender Dysphoria Syndrome and its an apt discription.

I think there are two different sides of this for us Tgurls. The wanting to look like a Genetic Girl which means to be partially imperfect is to be natural and the chase of the perfection of a modeling look or perceived look that can feed you into going one surgery too far. Neither is wrong and the psyche that goes with both is complicated. At some point you have to give up the fantasy of looking like the super hot girl you have idolized because you realize your face, skull, or body has systemic structural issues that you are stuck with because of the time you started hormones or what you were just born with.

I have chatted about this a bunch and while i was in L.A. doing shoots at the beginning of the month I went to Dr. Toby Meyer in Beverly Hills to get his assessment of my face because I feel that my face still has masculine characteristics when I look at it.

Basically his staff when they did my intake they were suprised when I told them i was a Preop Transsexual and kept telling me looking at my face that I looked like a cross between Reese Whitherspoon and Cameron Diaz. I laughed and was like "um thank you thats a great compliment but dont you think my jaw and chin area needs to be smoothed out and rounded and how about my Lips? Arent they too thin? I get embarassed how my face looks in casual pics sometimes is there anything you can do about that?". When Dr. Meyer met me he told me he wouldnt touch my jaw or my lips and my face was really naturally beautiful as a woman the only thing he would do is do the things he would for a woman approaching 30 which was touch up the eyes and fill in some lines. I was both happy about what he said and crestfallen because I still see the things I saw when I was 18 and looked at the boys face in the mirror.

Its the Duck imprint thing. The thing you see the first time is the strongest imprint. Included in this is yourself. Til the day I die i know in my psyche I will see male characteristics that are either there or not. Others that knew me as a boy when i was young look at me and go into short circuit because they imprinted on the boy. Others who knew me after 18 cant see anything but an above average looking woman and balk when i tell them I grew up a boy.

I wish I could have the 5'7" body and the smaller features in the face that so many of the gorgeous gurls have here but as Danielle said to me when doing my makeup for the Strokers shoot "SO how many Doctors do you need to tell you that you have a striking and beautiful face and you dont need major work before you stop seeing doctors?". I have to admit after the pictures they took yesterday I have that urge to go to Gary Alter or ? and get a fourth opinion.

Anyway I am rambling but yeah plastic surgery is like if your an artist. The hardest part is to know when to stop and be able to judge when deminishing returns kick in.

sorry for the rambling stream of conciousness thing but something someone told me a long time ago echos in my head and he said "every girl has their unique audience for their look and becoming a cookie cutter girl doesnt get you anywhere."

cheers and sorry for the ridiculous post,

Astrid Shay :)