The Pope on Homosexuals...

[Ben]

Pope angers campaigners with speech seen as attack on homosexuality
Wednesday 24 December 2008

Gay rights groups and activists yesterday condemned passages in Pope Benedict XVI's end-of-year address in which the pontiff spoke about gender and the important distinction between men and women.

Speaking to the Curia, the Vatican's central administration, the pope said that the church viewed the distinction as central to human nature, and "asks that this order, set down by creation, be respected". The church, he said, "should protect man from the destruction of himself". He said a sort of ecology of man was needed, adding: "The tropical forests do deserve our protection; but man, as a creature, does not deserve any less." He attacked what he described as "gender" theories which "lead towards the self-emancipation of man from creation and the creator".

Father Federico Lombardi, a Vatican spokesman, claimed the pope had not wished specifically to attack homosexuality, and had not mentioned gays or lesbians in his text. Nevertheless, the speech provoked anger from campaigners, who interpreted the remarks as a papal call to save mankind from homosexuals and transsexuals.

"What keeps the pope awake at night is the idea that human beings might be able to seek out their own sexual identity to have a happy life," said Franco Grillini, of the Italian association Gaynet. "The speech has no scientific basis," said Aurelio Mancuso, head of Arcigay. "A divine programme for men and women is out of line with nature, where the roles are not so clear."
Riazat Butt on reaction to the pope's speech Link to this audio

Although Catholic doctrine is that homosexuality is not a sin, the church does condemn homosexual acts and the former Joseph Ratzinger stated in 1986 before he became pope that homosexuality "is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder".

Father Lombardi insisted, however, that there had been an overreaction to the pope's remarks. "He was speaking more generally about gender theories which overlook the fundamental difference in creation between men and women and focus instead on cultural conditioning."

Italian newspapers widely interpreted the speech as a specific attack on sex change operations. "I would like an audience with the pope and other transgenders in order to get to know each other," said Vladimir Luxuria, a transsexual former member of the Italian parliament. "We do not want to be transgressive or provoke, we only want to pursue our own nature."

Benedict's main target appeared to be same-sex marriages. He claimed that lifelong wedlock between a man and a woman was like "the sacrament of creation".

Mike Egan, chair of the UK-based Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, said the pope's position on homosexuality was a mistake. "There are much greater threats to marriage and family life. There are bishops and clergy who think the official line on homosexuality is not true and the more official pronouncements, the deeper the hole the church is digging. I would say to gay Catholics, the man is right on lots of other things and hang on in there."

Catholic bishops in England and Wales are encouraging a more pastoral approach. Last month they issued a leaflet - entitled What is life like if you or someone in your family is gay or lesbian in their sexual orientation? ... and what can your parish family do to make a difference? - urging clergy and parishioners to welcome gay men and lesbians. "As a group that has suffered more than its share of oppression, the homosexual community has a particular claim on the concern of the church," it said. The leaflet cited comments received during a survey suggesting the church acknowledged it may have played a role in victimising and marginalising gay Catholics. These included: "The continual message from the church is that homosexuality is so, so dreadful. Our gay son just hasn't stood a chance."

[Ben]

:)

[Ben]

:frustrated

[kittyKaiti]

Although Catholic doctrine is that homosexuality is not a sin, the church does condemn homosexual acts and the former Joseph Ratzinger stated in 1986 before he became pope that homosexuality "is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder".


It's funny to know that the Catholic Church doesn't even follow the bible. The bible directly and repeatedly states that homosexuality is a horrible sin. Note though, there is nothing in the bible about transsexuality or even crossdressing for that matter.

[igotmacedbymimi:(]

The pope is right. Hes taken a leaf out of tsntx's book.

M2f transexual = biological man. Therefore biological man who fancies other biological man = FAGGOT

You are all faggots.

All 'shemales, transexuals, tv/ts, ladyboys' who like men, along with all the men who like them back...

FAGGOTS!

Tsntx preach girl, preach girl, preach!

[Coroner]

Although Catholic doctrine is that homosexuality is not a sin, the church does condemn homosexual acts and the former Joseph Ratzinger stated in 1986 before he became pope that homosexuality "is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder".


It's funny to know that the Catholic Church doesn't even follow the bible. The bible directly and repeatedly states that homosexuality is a horrible sin. Note though, there is nothing in the bible about transsexuality or even crossdressing for that matter.

There is nothing in the bible about the dinosaurs, other planets etc., and yet they have an opinion on everything and want to force their views on everybody. I can´t believe that the majority of humanity still believes in this fairy tale. They tend to defend their irrationality by accusing people for "hurting their feelings". Ratzinger is nothing but a Nazi in drag.

[JANIRA]

Being that I was raised catholic, my mother always taught me to pray ..... Now as a adult i still do . I have never been one to be involved in organized religion. In my POV the Bible has been written and rewritten over and over again,,, Whats to believe ? I for one of course believe in God, and am a very spiritual person, i just feel that these so called "Followers of God/ The word of God" preach all this hoopla of what is good and what is evil.yet they have subliminal hate and still ostracize others for being different ...and yet they want the human race to be as 1 and have peace in the world.....if you ask me it's all total hypocrisy & evil disguised in the sickest way ...using God as a tool too preach their hatred.......How sad!

[arnie666]

Everyone knows all homo's, and transexual shim adams appled freakazoids are going to burn in hell and damnation for all time anyway.

The big man is just relaying the word of our lord God, and we should reflect on this during the holiday season and birthday of his lad and remember that we were made different for a reason..

Men were put on this earth to rule, hunt, kill and generally do all the stuff that needs doing properly

Women were put here on the earth to shut up and do as they're told before they get the shit knocked out of them.

People who transgress and try and blur these lines are in direct defiance of God's instruction book (it's all in there, just look)

Anyone who cannot see the simplicity of God's wonder is a heretic and will also burn along with the fudge packers and the "Ooh i cant make my mind up which gender I should be this week" brigade.

Here endeth the lesson. I thankyou

[Chaotic]

Everyone knows all homo's, and transexual shim adams appled freakazoids are going to burn in hell and damnation for all time anyway.

The big man is just relaying the word of our lord God, and we should reflect on this during the holiday season and birthday of his lad and remember that we were made different for a reason..

Men were put on this earth to rule, hunt, kill and generally do all the stuff that needs doing properly

Women were put here on the earth to shut up and do as they're told before they get the shit knocked out of them.

People who transgress and try and blur these lines are in direct defiance of God's instruction book (it's all in there, just look)

Anyone who cannot see the simplicity of God's wonder is a heretic and will also burn along with the fudge packers and the "Ooh i cant make my mind up which gender I should be this week" brigade.

Here endeth the lesson. I thankyou

Excellent summation, but I think you left out the most important part:

Despite all these terrible things that will happen to you if you don't play by God's rules, God loves you unconditionally!

Riiiiiggggghhhhhhtttttttttttt.......... :roll:

[arnie666]

Everyone knows all homo's, and transexual shim adams appled freakazoids are going to burn in hell and damnation for all time anyway.

The big man is just relaying the word of our lord God, and we should reflect on this during the holiday season and birthday of his lad and remember that we were made different for a reason..

Men were put on this earth to rule, hunt, kill and generally do all the stuff that needs doing properly

Women were put here on the earth to shut up and do as they're told before they get the shit knocked out of them.

People who transgress and try and blur these lines are in direct defiance of God's instruction book (it's all in there, just look)

Anyone who cannot see the simplicity of God's wonder is a heretic and will also burn along with the fudge packers and the "Ooh i cant make my mind up which gender I should be this week" brigade.

Here endeth the lesson. I thankyou

Excellent summation, but I think you left out the most important part:

Despite all these terrible things that will happen to you if you don't play by God's rules, God loves you unconditionally!

Riiiiiggggghhhhhhtttttttttttt.......... :roll:


Gays invented AIDS as a sympathy tool to make us knit them quilts and feed them soup, you can't blame the Catholic church for hating screamers, because they're just trying to sort out other peoples problems.

And if you can't decide what sex you want to be even when you've blatantly been given one, you shouldn't be allowed to make any other decision ever, because you obviously can't be trusted to do anything without making a fuss and dithering.

I think the pope is well within his rights to say whatever he wants on this subject, and open a big can of lightning bolt whoop ass on anyone who disagrees with him.

Next years speech is "niggers... what the fuck are they all about?" or 'Boys, why buggering them is Gods work'

[Mrtwine]

It's funny to know that the Catholic Church doesn't even follow the bible. The bible directly and repeatedly states that homosexuality is a horrible sin. Note though, there is nothing in the bible about transsexuality or even crossdressing for that matter.[/quote

Are you sure about that? Have you read the whole book? The bible clearly also states for Men to NOT to feminate themselves. So don't tell people to "note" something about the book that is false.

[BlackMath]

Although Catholic doctrine is that homosexuality is not a sin, the church does condemn homosexual acts and the former Joseph Ratzinger stated in 1986 before he became pope that homosexuality "is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder".


It's funny to know that the Catholic Church doesn't even follow the bible. The bible directly and repeatedly states that homosexuality is a horrible sin. Note though, there is nothing in the bible about transsexuality or even crossdressing for that matter.

Sorry, but that is not true.

The most commonly sited passage is Leviticus: "You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman"

That is an act of homosexuality.


Look, I'm Catholic. And I have major issues with the Vaticans stance on gay people. But really, the church is so massive that it contains a broad range of points of view. I know a number of Jesuit Sects that don't care if someone engages in gay acts.
All my friends at church (save a couple of full-on people) have a totally opposing view to that of the Pope.
I will say this on the Vatican's behalf, though: It is far more preferable to have a church that is accepting of a gay person in at least some sense, than it is to be in a church that tries to convert a gay person to something that aren't; often resulting in depression and self loathing, sometimes suicide.


P.S. Whoever it was that commented about Dinosaurs and Planets. The Catholic church accepts Evolution, The BigBang and every other popular scientific theory. Their stance is, science is something given to us by God, that helps us uncover truth.

[SarahG]

The pope is right. Hes taken a leaf out of tsntx's book.

M2f transexual = biological man. Therefore biological man who fancies other biological man = FAGGOT

You couldn't be more wrong.

A MtF lesbian (someone who only likes girls) is not gay as far as the Pope's definitions are concerned. There is no homosexual act/sin occurring when a MtF is having sex with a GG.

A transitioned MtF could, as far as the church is concerned, marry a GG and, as far as the church is concerned, it would be a normal hetero relationship in every way.

The pope when talking about trans people, is not talking about sex or orientation or marriage definitions. The pope is talking about gender bending, meaning as far as the church is concerned- a transitioned person is a sinner, just a different kind of a sinner than gays.

Then someone who is MtF and into guys is, in the eyes of the church, a sinner in two different, individual ways (to say nothing of a third involving fertility rights, as srs is sterilizing)

[kittyKaiti]

It's funny to know that the Catholic Church doesn't even follow the bible. The bible directly and repeatedly states that homosexuality is a horrible sin. Note though, there is nothing in the bible about transsexuality or even crossdressing for that matter.[/quote

Are you sure about that? Have you read the whole book? The bible clearly also states for Men to NOT to feminate themselves. So don't tell people to "note" something about the book that is false.

Um... no it say nothing about transgender. My mother is a religious extremist and we constantly argue these things. She has yet to find anything that states even the most vague hint of anti-transsexual scripture. There is nothing in the bible about transgender. Read it for yourself. And most Christian bibles don't count because they added and removed books, scriptures and chapters like with the Catholic bible. There are a few books within that bible that never existed. They made it up themselves.

[BlackMath]

Did you know there are to books of the bible written by women?

[hippifried]

Did you know there are to books of the bible written by women?

Heresy!!! Those must be the "liberal" books. Better call an Ecumenical Counsel to purge that shit from the texts right away. Time to get back to the basics of penile inspiration.

[kittyKaiti]

Most likely they aren't ACTUAL books of the bible but the fake books that were added by the Catholic church. There are nine of those fake books in the Catholic bible that were added to the original version. Not to mention the Church removed sections of the old books and altered words and texts. Oh, the corruption is everywhere. :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

[hippifried]

Oh??
Were those "fakes" removed from the reformist translations? What makes them fake?

Please tell me this isn't leading up to some diatribe on "the historical Jesus".

[DL_NL]

The pope is pretty good at demonstrating the Christian 'love thy neighbour'.



Not.

[El Nino]

What an asshole that pope is

[Silcc69]

Did not read what the Pope said and i'm not surprised either.

[trish]

So where does it say in Leviticus that God was talking to all mankind when he said, "YOU shall not lie with a man as with a woman"? Perhaps He just meant this for Leviticus or his tribe. Perhaps he was talking only to woman. Perhaps He meant that with a woman you should use the missionary style but with a man doggy is best. It's difficult to take the Bible literally when it's so fucking ambiguous.

[hippifried]

So where does it say in Leviticus that God was talking to all mankind when he said, "YOU shall not lie with a man as with a woman"? Perhaps He just meant this for Leviticus or his tribe. Perhaps he was talking only to woman. Perhaps He meant that with a woman you should use the missionary style but with a man doggy is best. It's difficult to take the Bible literally when it's so fucking ambiguous.
Well that's why we have preachers & popes to read between the lines & 'splain it all to us. They're divinely inspired ya know. They let us know which passages of Leviticus are operable & inoperable at any given time, since that's the book we're all supposed to use to teach us right from wrong. Without that, it'd be total anarchy because there'd be no moral compass at all. :roll:

[Deimos]

Homosexuality has existed as long as the rock we live on.... I mean it's no secret before the bible even existed the Greek adult men were having sex with little boys.

Modern day society doesn't consider these things.

[Mrtwine]

It's funny to know that the Catholic Church doesn't even follow the bible. The bible directly and repeatedly states that homosexuality is a horrible sin. Note though, there is nothing in the bible about transsexuality or even crossdressing for that matter.[/quote

Are you sure about that? Have you read the whole book? The bible clearly also states for Men to NOT to feminate themselves. So don't tell people to "note" something about the book that is false.

Um... no it say nothing about transgender. My mother is a religious extremist and we constantly argue these things. She has yet to find anything that states even the most vague hint of anti-transsexual scripture. There is nothing in the bible about transgender. Read it for yourself. And most Christian bibles don't count because they added and removed books, scriptures and chapters like with the Catholic bible. There are a few books within that bible that never existed. They made it up themselves.
Have you and your mother read the whole book? Show this to her: 1Cr 6:9 —" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, "
But it states for man not to effeminate themselves, so transgender automatically is that. Are you sayng that it is OK in the Christian religion?

[kittyKaiti]

It's funny to know that the Catholic Church doesn't even follow the bible. The bible directly and repeatedly states that homosexuality is a horrible sin. Note though, there is nothing in the bible about transsexuality or even crossdressing for that matter.[/quote

Are you sure about that? Have you read the whole book? The bible clearly also states for Men to NOT to feminate themselves. So don't tell people to "note" something about the book that is false.

Um... no it say nothing about transgender. My mother is a religious extremist and we constantly argue these things. She has yet to find anything that states even the most vague hint of anti-transsexual scripture. There is nothing in the bible about transgender. Read it for yourself. And most Christian bibles don't count because they added and removed books, scriptures and chapters like with the Catholic bible. There are a few books within that bible that never existed. They made it up themselves.
Have you and your mother read the whole book? Show this to her: 1Cr 6:9 —" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, "
But it states for man not to effeminate themselves, so transgender automatically is that. Are you sayng that it is OK in the Christian religion?

The actual translation is referring to homosexuality and sodomy and not transsexuality.

[hippifried]

The actual translation is referring to homosexuality and sodomy and not transsexuality.
Oh ok. Thanks for clearing that up. It's good to know that those don't have anything to do with each other. :lol:

[kittyKaiti]

The actual translation is referring to homosexuality and sodomy and not transsexuality.
Oh ok. Thanks for clearing that up. It's good to know that those don't have anything to do with each other. :lol:

Actually they don't have anything to do with each other. You must know nothing about transgender people.

[hippifried]

Hey, I'm just a smart alec. I'm not trying to pick a fight.
Well... Maybe a wrestling match.