ANOTHER TRANSSEXUAL ATTACKED

[Danielle Foxx]

Yes boys and girls yet another transsexual attacked this time in Orlando FL it seems, but we have all heard the stories from NY. 4 years ago my friend at the time was beaten up and robbed in her room, more recent this girl called me and shared some guy's number who had beaten her up in her hotel room.

And we all heard about Miriam and Susan Shaw... When is this going to stop? When are they going to catch these pricks? When will the girls call the police and report these crimes?

TRANSSEXUAL DISCUSSION BOARDS ON TER

We forget the risk our girls face
Posted by tsCAT99 , 12/23/2008 9:30:51 AM

Sometimes we gotta run when the girl and the situation isn't cool, but we also need to realize how potentially dangerous it is for the girls.

I didn't know if it would be o.k. to use her name, so I won't. But, I tell ya, we tend to forget all the risks our girls face in the biz.

I recently saw a girl who was really beaten up by a dude that robbed her and beat her--in the hotel room. She answered the door, and wham; he attacked. It was horrifying to hear. On top of that, the hotel wanted her to pay for damages.

Reading this may kill a few hard-ons, but it is the real world. A fresh appreciation is always welcome!


Her Reply:
Posted by INDIA2007 , 12/24/2008 6:49:37 PM [See my TER reviews]

Mr: Cat
I am ok now my love, Orlando experience was bad but my nose is ok now and the wonds in my lips have heal, so I look beautiful again
it was great meeting you in Lil Rock.

India Fox.

Related Link: http://eros-la.com/files/la-india4.htm

[hondarobot]

That does suck, I don't know the answer.

In other, unrelated news:

Do you want to work with me on a cartoon? VR won't talk to me until I become rich. True story.

:shrug

[alpha2117]

India is renowned as a sweetheart too, shes a really nice girl by all accounts.

[rico87]

Orlando has gone down hill, I have family there that went to High School in Orlando and its become da bronx with palm trees. Crime is crazy and alot of those cops couldn't give a shit about those girls walking on Orange Blossom trail. Granted shit happens everywhere including Wyoming.

Still the most important thing is India is ok. Its never gonna end too many sick fucks in this world. Hire a bodyguard, have a friend with you at all times if possible or just carry a gun and shoot the motherfucker in the balls.

News like this makes me so angry, fuckin lowlife cowards.

[rico87]

The hotel wanted her to pay for the damages :shock:

Sound like fucking Disney World (Orlando).......whats the name of the hotel ? she should take legal action against them for that alone.

[Solitary Brother]

Yes boys and girls yet another transsexual attacked this time in Orlando FL it seems, but we have all heard the stories from NY. 4 years ago my friend at the time was beaten up and robbed in her room, more recent this girl called me and shared some guy's number who had beaten her up in her hotel room.

And we all heard about Miriam and Susan Shaw... When is this going to stop? When are they going to catch these pricks? When will the girls call the police and report these crimes?

TRANSSEXUAL DISCUSSION BOARDS ON TER

We forget the risk our girls face
Posted by tsCAT99 , 12/23/2008 9:30:51 AM

Sometimes we gotta run when the girl and the situation isn't cool, but we also need to realize how potentially dangerous it is for the girls.

I didn't know if it would be o.k. to use her name, so I won't. But, I tell ya, we tend to forget all the risks our girls face in the biz.

I recently saw a girl who was really beaten up by a dude that robbed her and beat her--in the hotel room. She answered the door, and wham; he attacked. It was horrifying to hear. On top of that, the hotel wanted her to pay for damages.

Reading this may kill a few hard-ons, but it is the real world. A fresh appreciation is always welcome!


Her Reply:
Posted by INDIA2007 , 12/24/2008 6:49:37 PM [See my TER reviews]

Mr: Cat
I am ok now my love, Orlando experience was bad but my nose is ok now and the wonds in my lips have heal, so I look beautiful again
it was great meeting you in Lil Rock.

India Fox.

Related Link: http://eros-la.com/files/la-india4.htm

I will tell you WHY girls wont report these things.
Number 1.
The police dont care.
Its sad to say but true.
Their attitudes are at time WORSE than the alleged attacker.
I have a video of the cops LAUGHING at a transexuals WHILE a woman at an establishment curses her calling her a "faggot" and to get out of the womans bathroom.
I have this...and can post it and its not a isolated incident.
Number 2.
Many transexuals are either on the stroll or have a prior conviction for some petty crime against them and dont want cops involved.
Besides....the cops dont care anyways.

Im sorry but you girls need your own movement.
Until you empower yourself and MAKE people respect you this will continue to happen.
Have you ever heard that song "Sisters are doing it for themselves"?

Merry Xmas.

[GroobySteven]

Terrible - thanks for the report.
I thought Susan Shah killed herself though?

[keepingitreal470]

Yes boys and girls yet another transsexual attacked this time in Orlando FL it seems, but we have all heard the stories from NY. 4 years ago my friend at the time was beaten up and robbed in her room, more recent this girl called me and shared some guy's number who had beaten her up in her hotel room.

And we all heard about Miriam and Susan Shaw... When is this going to stop? When are they going to catch these pricks? When will the girls call the police and report these crimes?

TRANSSEXUAL DISCUSSION BOARDS ON TER

We forget the risk our girls face
Posted by tsCAT99 , 12/23/2008 9:30:51 AM

Sometimes we gotta run when the girl and the situation isn't cool, but we also need to realize how potentially dangerous it is for the girls.

I didn't know if it would be o.k. to use her name, so I won't. But, I tell ya, we tend to forget all the risks our girls face in the biz.

I recently saw a girl who was really beaten up by a dude that robbed her and beat her--in the hotel room. She answered the door, and wham; he attacked. It was horrifying to hear. On top of that, the hotel wanted her to pay for damages.

Reading this may kill a few hard-ons, but it is the real world. A fresh appreciation is always welcome!


Her Reply:
Posted by INDIA2007 , 12/24/2008 6:49:37 PM [See my TER reviews]

Mr: Cat
I am ok now my love, Orlando experience was bad but my nose is ok now and the wonds in my lips have heal, so I look beautiful again
it was great meeting you in Lil Rock.

India Fox.

Related Link: http://eros-la.com/files/la-india4.htm

I will tell you WHY girls wont report these things.
Number 1.
The police dont care.
Its sad to say but true.
Their attitudes are at time WORSE than the alleged attacker.
I have a video of the cops LAUGHING at a transexuals WHILE a woman at an establishment curses her calling her a "faggot" and to get out of the womans bathroom.
I have this...and can post it and its not a isolated incident.
Number 2.
Many transexuals are either on the stroll or have a prior conviction for some petty crime against them and dont want cops involved.
Besides....the cops dont care anyways.

Im sorry but you girls need your own movement.
Until you empower yourself and MAKE people respect you this will continue to happen.
Have you ever heard that song "Sisters are doing it for themselves"?

Merry Xmas.No. 3 Sometimes the attack was provoked by the girl. She got caught trying to clip or steal. In this case, there is no remorse. And it does happen. Tell both sides. It aint always so one-sided.

[rico87]

Terrible - thanks for the report.
I thought Susan Shah killed herself though?

She did according to the NY POST she was severly depressed after a break up with her boyfriend and jump out of the window of her Manhattan apartment. I remember the story because I was a fan of hers and always wanted to meet her. Also I belive it was stated on a tribute site that was made for her.

[alpha2117]

Terrible - thanks for the report.
I thought Susan Shah killed herself though?

She did according to the NY POST she was severly depressed after a break up with her boyfriend and jump out of the window of her Manhattan apartment. I remember the story because I was a fan of hers and always wanted to meet her. Also I belive it was stated on a tribute site that was made for her.

Her health was not great either unfortunatly. I think a few things piled up together at the same time which caused depression to take hold.

[jessicamoore]

WOW THIS REALLY IS ASHAMED I PERSONALLY HAVE BEEN ATTACKED AT GUN PIONT AND WHILE IM ON THE PHONE TALKING TO THE 911 OPERATER THE COPS RIDE RIGHT PASS AS IM GETTIN ROBBED UNFORTANELY I ALWAYS BEEN A PERSON TO REACT BEFORE THINKING SO I STARTED TUSSLING WITH THE GUN AND THE GUY AND THE BULLETS FALLS OUT NOW I LOOK BACK AND SAY WAT WAS I THINKING I COULDA BEEN SHOT AND LEFT FOR DEAD BUT IM A FIGHTER DUE TO GROWING UP IN A HARSH CITY BUT I BEG EVERYONE TO BE SAFE AND WHEN U FEEL THAT GUT INSTINST REACT ON IT STAY SAFE DUE TO THOSE INCIDENT I STOP ESCORTING AND NOW IM AT HOME ON SEVERAL CAMSITES AND BRINGING IN MORE CASH DAILY THAN I DID ESCORTING

[rico87]

Terrible - thanks for the report.
I thought Susan Shah killed herself though?

She did according to the NY POST she was severly depressed after a break up with her boyfriend and jump out of the window of her Manhattan apartment. I remember the story because I was a fan of hers and always wanted to meet her. Also I belive it was stated on a tribute site that was made for her.

Her health was not great either unfortunatly. I think a few things piled up together at the same time which caused depression to take hold.

Yeah heard that she contracted Aids as well and it was affecting her health. Sad Story.

[jaycanuck]

This does suck. You would think that in 2008 we'd be past all of this. On a sadder note I go to the trans-remembrance ceremony every year...and it's surprising how few tg women show up to it.

[jessicamoore]

sorry to hear but aint no man worth killin myself
over far as aids if she was postive today diangois is not like the early 80s when u had it u died people are living healthy lives as they are meant to be taking care of urself is number 1 before anyway its not a death sentence unless u make it one

[jessicamoore]

This does suck. You would think that in 2008 we'd be past all of this. On a sadder note I go to the trans-remembrance ceremony every year...and it's surprising how few tg women show up to it.


im aure its not thAt ts dont care its more of some people moan in different ways i myself dont like tslkin about death period

[rico87]

This does suck. You would think that in 2008 we'd be past all of this. On a sadder note I go to the trans-remembrance ceremony every year...and it's surprising how few tg women show up to it.

Thats a classy thing to do, Jay where in Canada are you Toronto,Montreal, Vanccouver, Calgary ?

Thinking about taking a trip up there but haven't decided leaning towards Toronto to catch a Maple Leaf game and heard the transgender nitelife is great.

[jaycanuck]

Toronto Rico. Yah it's a nice city. I've lived in alot of them. And not to say there weren't any people at the ceremonies. The room was busy.

[justatransgirl]

Thanks Danielle for posting this.

Ladies, sad as it sounds, if you are escorting you can NEVER let your guard down. That doesn't mean being paranoid or cynical, but to always ensure you have security in place.

Sigh,
TS Jamie :-)

[Danielle Foxx]

It was reported that Susan did jump but others speculated that she was murdered if i recalled correct.

[menacingmethods86]

But they're escorts, they're willingly putting themselves in danger and secondly many try to trick str8 men.

[alyssats]

Just curious why does this guys like attacking Transsexuals? This kind of thing is not very common in Asia :?

[jaycanuck]

Because much of the western world is still close minded

[nicoleneuman24]

i really need to get out of this biz.. its bullshit

[Shining Star]

While it in no way justifies what happened to this trannie, GGs, gay men and others are also attacked and or robbed when either inviting strangers to their homes/hotel rooms, or going to meet a stranger in same or getting into his car.

Ever since the Internet has made hooking-up easy as letting one's fingers do the walking, and also made "working" a matter of a simply mouse click, people simply have forgotten something most of our parents drummed into our heads from the cradle:

Do Not Speak To Strangers
Do Not Get Into A Stranger's Car
Do Not Let Strangers Into Your Home

The film "Looking For Mister Goodbar" may be almost 30 years old now, but the same thing happened then, and happens today. Sadly attitudes by LE and even family and friends can be still the same. Nice people do not meet strangers and either go with them or arrange to meet them in their homes. Those that do, well simply get what is coming to them.

Gay guys, including older gay men, who troll around AOL or say CL looking for hook-ups are forever being beaten up and or robbed. As another poster stated, they rarely report the crime because they don't want their business in the streets, and also for fear of the reaction LE will have.

When no forced entry is visable, the first question from LE will be, did the victim know the perp, and things work down from there.

If you happen to have a rap sheet for prossing, even if only for arrests, LE is probably not going to be that motivated. I too have heard terrible stories of trannies being beaten and or robbed either indoors or from getting into a date's car; only to be laughed at by LE. One girl walked from the Meatpacking area to the local LE, which isn't that far, only to have to sit their while officers laughed their asses off at her plight. There only questions were: what were you doing down there? Why did you get into the car? Local security for the apartment houses down there (where she first went to for assistance), called her a "faggot", and when pressed to call 911, did dial them up saying "come down here and get this faggot, "HE" was ....).

As for "empowerment", unless you are advocating some sort of group beat down or protection scheme, fuhgetit.

Various groups have called for and or tried to organize better protection for prossies, gays, and other groups for whom such violence is a daily risk. While some success has been made in say protecting "gays", that mainly applies to "hate crimes" and such, where the person is attacked in a public place. Hoes pretty much have been left out, reflecting society's view that such people wouldn't have these problems if not for their career choice.

I mean look how long it has taken for women who have been raped to not be treated as if they somehow caused the attack. Even still, a girl has to be totally correct when making that charge. As found out during the Duke "rape" case, if you have any sort of shady background all bets are off.


Susan Shah,

IIRC the story correctly, her suicide was the result of many problems coming together at once, at least that is what those close to her put about.

Besides her bf leaving her, she was also HIV+ and perhaps had other health issues (can't remember).

[Shining Star]

IIRC, transgendered women, both pre and post operative have a high level of suicides as a group.

While Ms. Shah's death may have been preceeded by a break-up with her bf, that has been known to send many a person to seek their own death.

It just could have been in Ms. Shah's case she saw what could be coming down the pike.

I like to call it the "Valley of The Dolls" syndrome, after the beautiful and well built girl who commits suicide after finding out she has breast cancer and will lose one breast. Her thinking went that all her life all she ever had was her looks and good body, once they were gone, what else was there? For girls that have used what they've got to get what they need, it can be hard adjustment to not only the loss of physical beauty (and the rejection from men that may follow), but how will they earn a living once the phone stops ringing.

Models, actresses, hoes, even women who used their looks to get married to a wealthy man, can all face the same problem.

Yes, if one is very strong, and has a good social/family support system, then the loss of a man or not having a man can be gotten over. You can also tap into that strength to move onto doing something else with one's life. Sadly too many girls, especially trannies do not see a life for themselves outside of the sex business, nor are prepared for one.

[andyuk]

a freind of mine started escorting.
i was really worried when she started,
she has had bad experiance,and that was someone refusing to pay.
but everytime she goes i worry about her so much.
i dont know what the answear is,i guess soceity is just going downhill at a very fast rate.

[Shining Star]

It isn't just society "today".

Violence against women, especially "public" women along with that of gays and even children has been going on for ages. It is only because of a vast new array of media outlets, coupled with other changes that we now hear about them.

Jack The Ripper, was part of a long line of men who prayed upon public women. In Mexico, and parts of South America, women (both prossies and non working women/girls) have been going missing in great numbers for years now. The mid-western United States, as well as Canada also have several serial killers of prossies running loose. LE departments have case file full of girls who got into a car or otherwise went on a date and were never seen alive again. One famous Canada case, a man was recently convicted of killing several prossies, and then cutting them up and feeding their bodies to his pigs.

Gay men and transgendered persons have also been victums of crimes going back, but given how homosexuality was a crime in much of the world, these persons wouldn't or couldn't report the crimes commited against them. For the same reason hoes don't often report crimes committed by a date. It means admitting you were engaged in criminal activity (for public record), when the crime took place. Not many people are going to stand up in court and admit that.

Persons engaging in illegal and or illict acts are the perfect targets for crime for the above reason. Drug dealers, high level prossing and such have paid protection, and or pay off LE to leave them alone. Still, one hears often enough of drug dealers being robbed by LE, and the cases that come to light are only the tip of the iceberg.

Bottom line is as stated previously, being alone with a stranger, that you have no idea about is never a good idea. You can screen, caller ID, and everything else, which may help catch the bastard after the fact, but you may either very well end up physically abused or worse.

[kittyKaiti]

Just curious why does this guys like attacking Transsexuals? This kind of thing is not very common in Asia :?

Asia has laws that the United States is too pussy to enact. We need to execute all of our death row inmates and start publicly assaulting violent criminals. Public executions, harsher punishments, longer sentences. Assault = 25 to life. Rape = life imprisonment. Murder = death penalty. We need to start cleansing the nation of crime, a war on crime persay. There's a near 0% crime rate in Asia because of the extraordinary laws they have. The U.S. justice system is a shithole and an embarassment. And for all those hippies that are against such extremes, STFU and simply don't break the law.

[Shining Star]

Before you go down that road, you may wish to consider those same countries have harsh punishments for ALL crimes. That includes prossing and related crimes, failing to file/pay taxes, pimping and so forth.

Rule of law, and or being considered innocent until proven guilty does not exist either. Instead you are considered guilty until you can prove you aren't. LE is widely on the take, as are some judges, and appeals are either unheard of or take ages.

As for the death penalty and all that, Many European countries, and the UK have been there and done that, and it got them nowhere.

At one point in the 16th or 17th century,England for instance used to sentence most all crimes to death. Everything from pickpockets, to murder,to rape, to robbery met with the hangman's noose. It took awhile but government finally realised all those hangings had not one wit effect in reducing the numbers of crimes committed. So they started transporting criminals to colonies, indeed much of Oz, was settled first by convicts.

Europe is streets ahead of the US in terms of justice. They have found you deal with crime by preventing it's cause, which means dealing with the causes such as proverty and lack of education. Rather than simply warehouse criminals with other criminals so they can learn how to be better criminals, you try to eductate and redeem as many first offenders as possible by educating, training and otherwise giving them skills to get on in society. Finally you have laws to prevent needless discrimination in employment, education and housing of criminals.

The last bit does not mean child rapists are allowed to work in schools, but it does mean that someone who has say committed a minor crime, paid his debt to society is allowed chance earning a decent living and moving on with his life.

Most murders and serious crimes are ones of passion or spur of the moment things, therefore the death penalty is NOT going to be an effective deterrent. The bastard that shot up his ex-wife and her family in Christmas Eve would likely have done so regardless of what would have happened if he was caught.

[andyuk]

It isn't just society "today".

Violence against women, especially "public" women along with that of gays and even children has been going on for ages. It is only because of a vast new array of media outlets, coupled with other changes that we now hear about them.

Jack The Ripper, was part of a long line of men who prayed upon public women. In Mexico, and parts of South America, women (both prossies and non working women/girls) have been going missing in great numbers for years now. The mid-western United States, as well as Canada also have several serial killers of prossies running loose. LE departments have case file full of girls who got into a car or otherwise went on a date and were never seen alive again. One famous Canada case, a man was recently convicted of killing several prossies, and then cutting them up and feeding their bodies to his pigs.

Gay men and transgendered persons have also been victums of crimes going back, but given how homosexuality was a crime in much of the world, these persons wouldn't or couldn't report the crimes commited against them. For the same reason hoes don't often report crimes committed by a date. It means admitting you were engaged in criminal activity (for public record), when the crime took place. Not many people are going to stand up in court and admit that.

Persons engaging in illegal and or illict acts are the perfect targets for crime for the above reason. Drug dealers, high level prossing and such have paid protection, and or pay off LE to leave them alone. Still, one hears often enough of drug dealers being robbed by LE, and the cases that come to light are only the tip of the iceberg.

Bottom line is as stated previously, being alone with a stranger, that you have no idea about is never a good idea. You can screen, caller ID, and everything else, which may help catch the bastard after the fact, but you may either very well end up physically abused or worse.

fair point.
but i still stand by the view that the violence all over the world is getting worse with each passiing year.

[RueMue]

..

[SarahG]

double post

[SarahG]

sorry to hear but aint no man worth killin myself
over far as aids if she was postive today diangois is not like the early 80s when u had it u died people are living healthy lives as they are meant to be taking care of urself is number 1 before anyway its not a death sentence unless u make it one

This is true if you can afford the aids medications. Not everyone has insurance, and of those who don't a lot don't have the money for the prescriptions.

And then if that wasn't enough of a problem, a lot of the clinics for aids in the US (the ones that cater to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford the medications) are known in some cases to turn away people who are trans, strictly because they're trans. There were two or three girls this year on the transgender day of remembrance site who died from aids because of not having access to proper aids medications, and that seems to be the case every year.

There's no reason for people to have HIV be a death sentence in the way it was in the 80s, but for whatever reason, our countries and others allow it to work that way if you happen to be poor and socially "undesirable".

[SarahG]

double post

[SarahG]

triple post (wow HA is slow today)

[SarahG]

Just curious why does this guys like attacking Transsexuals? This kind of thing is not very common in Asia :?

Asia has laws that the United States is too pussy to enact. We need to execute all of our death row inmates and start publicly assaulting violent criminals. Public executions, harsher punishments, longer sentences. Assault = 25 to life. Rape = life imprisonment. Murder = death penalty. We need to start cleansing the nation of crime, a war on crime persay. There's a near 0% crime rate in Asia because of the extraordinary laws they have. The U.S. justice system is a shithole and an embarassment. And for all those hippies that are against such extremes, STFU and simply don't break the law.

Can anyone claim with a straight face that mandatory sentencing has helped the war on drugs? All its done is overfilled our prison system. We have more prisoners than some countries have in populations!

I would like to see how you'd prove public executions helped with crime. Even the death penalty supporters don't make that argument. Does that mean they're hippies too?

[SoCaliDude]

Did this make the news.? Did she chose to NOT report the incident at all?

[BrendaQG]

Terrible, simply terrible. :-(

You wanna know why this still happens? There is the obvious transphobic/homophobic society in general. But there's more. When stories like this show up about the death of or the tough life of ladies working the street what happens? Certain TG activist types will send many more angry letters about how bad such stories make the community look than they will to the police who (don't) investigate. If the more fortunate sector of our own community does not care why would joe straight cop?

[SarahG]

Don't get this posting wrong, please - but ...

Every time someone from the not so mainstream community gets hurt or even murdered, allways people come and connect them to their not so mainstream lifestyle. How many people get molested, hurt and murdered and "live" by the rules of society? How many children, men and women got killed out of action by the invasion forces in Irak or Afghanistan?

WHAT IF, e.g. someone TS etc. has done something ugly, a fight broke out and in the course of this fight, the TS got hurt or killed. Is this a TS problem? No, I don't think so. It is the unablility of humans behaving HUMAN. And WHAT IF some people try to make a deed out of such attack by pinpointing their fingers into, let's say TS community just to wash themselves clean?


You have a point there, I also have noticed that some people who are trans like to blame everything that's wrong in their life on being trans.

But sometimes stuff happens for totally unrelated reasons. I have small tits, yet all GG's in my family have identical breasts so its not a trans issue for me. I got as much as I would have gotten had I been a GG, trans issues had nothing to do with it. Some girls seem to think if they don't have perfect D cup tits from HRT, their breasts are a "trans problem" that needs a "trans surgery" to fix it, sure that's true if they would have gotten D's naturally but to say its always "hrt falling short" is unrealistic.

I have known a few GG's that worked in low end adult entertainment (shady, cheap neighborhood strip bars etc) under the table for 2-3 decades, only to find it was nearly impossible for them to get a normal 9 to 5 job once they got too old to strip. The reason? They had no education, no resume, nothing to explain why an employer SHOULD hire them when applying. There are certainly trans people who fall under similar situations, and in those cases it isn't trans discrimination that's keeping them from that dream salary white collar job; its that they have no meaningful resume to market themselves with.

I would not be surprised if there are trans victims of violent crime who were targeted for unrelated reasons. But the flip side of that coin is that there most certainly are cases where they were targeted for being trans, and there are even cases where the accused admitted as much.

[kittyKaiti]

Can anyone claim with a straight face that mandatory sentencing has helped the war on drugs? All its done is overfilled our prison system. We have more prisoners than some countries have in populations!

I would like to see how you'd prove public executions helped with crime. Even the death penalty supporters don't make that argument. Does that mean they're hippies too?

I said nothing about drugs. The reason the drug rate hasn't changed is because our borders are wide open to anyone. All the drugs are coming up from South America, Mexico and the Caribbean. I said we need to crack down on violent crimes and begin harsh punishments for such crimes. If you plan on raping someone, I hope you don't mind the death penalty. We don't need shit like that living in our country. Clear them out.

[SarahG]

Can anyone claim with a straight face that mandatory sentencing has helped the war on drugs? All its done is overfilled our prison system. We have more prisoners than some countries have in populations!

I would like to see how you'd prove public executions helped with crime. Even the death penalty supporters don't make that argument. Does that mean they're hippies too?

I said nothing about drugs. The reason the drug rate hasn't changed is because our borders are wide open to anyone. All the drugs are coming up from South America, Mexico and the Caribbean. I said we need to crack down on violent crimes and begin harsh punishments for such crimes. If you plan on raping someone, I hope you don't mind the death penalty. We don't need shit like that living in our country. Clear them out.

Yea because god knows no one has ever claimed rape to get out of disappointing their family when knocked up or having sex with someone they dislike. :roll:

All DNA proves is who had sex with who. It is essentially a case of he-said, she-said in most rape allegations. How is the state to know it wasn't rough consensual sex? The evidence rarely says one way or another.

I mentioned drugs because you're talking about mandatory sentencing for violent crimes. Mandatory sentencing, regardless who its aimed at- simply doesn't work.

[kittyKaiti]

My, my, my. On one thread, you want to abolish religion and now it sounds like you'd like to do away with the Bill of Rights and due process.

Public beatings and executions eh? I'm sure there are plenty of people who would advocate those "solutions" be applied to transgendered people.

I would venture that your TNAFLIX vids, in some Asian countries, would earn you a long prison sentence if not worse.

Hippies? WTF? Is this the 60's?


I said to abolish organized religion. There's a difference. You a free to believe and practice whatever you want but organized religion (look throughout all history) has done nothing but cause war, genocide, terrorism, poverty and discrimination based on everything from gender, race, other religions, age, nationality and sexual orientation/gender identity. If you can find one religion that does not promote such things, please show me. I of course can name a few such as Buddhism and Hinduism but pretty much everything promotes the things listed above whether it's through subtle hinting or outright in the open.

I also said that we need to apply these laws to violent crimes. If you rape someone, you deserve to be beaten and executed. You forfeit any and all rights when you commit a crime like that. I said nothing about changing due process and the courts. After they are found guilty, just shoot them. No need to waste tax money housing these fucks in prison for 15 years and then setting them free. Sorry if you don't like it, but we've tried other things and yet rape, murder, child molestation, it all keeps happening. If you don't think a rapist or murderer deserves the death penalty then I think there is something wrong with you. People these days think they can just go around and beat the crap out of innocent people and get away with it, thinking "oh, its only a couple years of jail". They need to be put away for a long time, if ever let back out.

[yodajazz]

My, my, my. On one thread, you want to abolish religion and now it sounds like you'd like to do away with the Bill of Rights and due process.

Public beatings and executions eh? I'm sure there are plenty of people who would advocate those "solutions" be applied to transgendered people.

I would venture that your TNAFLIX vids, in some Asian countries, would earn you a long prison sentence if not worse.

Hippies? WTF? Is this the 60's?


I said to abolish organized religion. There's a difference. You a free to believe and practice whatever you want but organized religion (look throughout all history) has done nothing but cause war, genocide, terrorism, poverty and discrimination based on everything from gender, race, other religions, age, nationality and sexual orientation/gender identity. If you can find one religion that does not promote such things, please show me. I of course can name a few such as Buddhism and Hinduism but pretty much everything promotes the things listed above whether it's through subtle hinting or outright in the open.

I also said that we need to apply these laws to violent crimes. If you rape someone, you deserve to be beaten and executed. You forfeit any and all rights when you commit a crime like that. I said nothing about changing due process and the courts. After they are found guilty, just shoot them. No need to waste tax money housing these fucks in prison for 15 years and then setting them free. Sorry if you don't like it, but we've tried other things and yet rape, murder, child molestation, it all keeps happening. If you don't think a rapist or murderer deserves the death penalty then I think there is something wrong with you. People these days think they can just go around and beat the crap out of innocent people and get away with it, thinking "oh, its only a couple years of jail". They need to be put away for a long time, if ever let back out.

Organized religions often reinforce negative things which were already there. But also religion has done the opposite, that is promote love and understanding to oppose the negative things.

And the problem with crime and punishment is that often times they pressure people into giving false information. An example is threatening to charge the person with the crime unless they tesifty against the other person. So a number of people have been unjustly convicted.

[bezane]

This was preventable. Don't escort. It is not glamorous. It is dangerous in many aspects. It is a gateway to trouble. It is not conducive to a real and normal life. It's hard enough to find a partner in life that is serious about dating TS and escorting makes it impossible.

I've seen so many so-called "porn stars" that are down and out after many years. There might be a few that have prospered, managed their money, and live decent lives. Because of the internet the girls are starting earlier and younger. Porn purveyors have convinced the TS industry to do porn to promote their escort careers.

Many of the girls have street smarts and sensitivity when they start out that would make them succeed in nearly any industry. Yes, they must overcome bias. Very difficult. Not as hard as fending off an strange attacker in a strange hotel room.

Just a thought. I'm probably way off on this one. But I just lost another girl that ran off to LA to become the next porn legend. The formula is cast in stone. She will make movies, get a website and hook a bevy of international admirers.

[Teydyn]

If you plan on raping someone, I hope you don't mind the death penalty.
Sorry, but thats stupid.

WHY should someone who just raped a woman NOT kill her if he gets executed for the rape anyway? Dead people are worse at telling the truth then living ones...

[SarahG]

If you plan on raping someone, I hope you don't mind the death penalty.
Sorry, but thats stupid.

WHY should someone who just raped a woman NOT kill her if he gets executed for the rape anyway? Dead people are worse at telling the truth then living ones...

What?!? You mean tougher sentencing can actually make violent crime problems worse?

;)

[Shining Star]

Sympathy:

You don't see much sympathy from the straight community when GG hoes are abused or killed, by and large now do you? Nor from the gay community about one of theirs either. Aside from the odd case of a "good girl or boy" who was working as a "dancer" but certainly not hoeing, who is killed by someone they knew, most persons react the same way. If the person wasn't where they were, doing what they were doing, it wouldn't have happened.

As for trans/gay violence, just as with violence against women, there has been strides, great strides by LE and the community at large. It wasn't that long ago that if you were gay or in drag or a trannie and got attacked on the street, while minding your own business, calling LE would have gotten you nothing but chuckles. Today most large and or urban LE departments, and many others have "hate crime" units, and many states have hate crime laws.

However how does one decide if the crime against a trannie or gay hoe was because they are what they are or simply a robbery? Most laws only label something a "hate crime" if the person committing the crime utters words against a particular religion, gender, or gender identity, or race. Without such evidence, it is just another crime.

One of the saddest things about the modern trannie scene is that sex work has been sold as a low risk way to riches, and a viable career alternative, when it is nothing of the sort.

Prostitution is what it is, and still carries all the same risks and dangers it always has. Worse today is that so much of the business has moved indoors with independent workers, there are few safeguards. You can screen calls and so forth all you want, but savvy criminals are always onto safety measures. They KNOW you are going to screen and peep, so devise ways to get around.

Then of course there is greed and or lack of funds. A girl with bills to pay, who hasn't turned enough dates (or any), does not have the luxury of turning someone away because of bad "vibes". Well maybe she should or does, but often hunger and keeping a roof over one's head wins out over common sense.

The United States already has one of the highest incarceration rates in the western world, and it not totally eliminated or in some areas made a major reduction in violent or other types of crime rates.

California and other states passed tough "three strikes" and have death penalty laws and look what has happened. California's prisons and jails are so over flowing the state is under court order to reduce, so now they are shipping inmates to other states or letting them out early. This from a state that is basically almost bankrupt and is spending millions per day on those inmates.

Again the death penalty is NOT a serious deterrent to crime. This is why European countries stopped long ago, and only a handful of countries such as Saudi Arabia, China, along with the United States have it.

Thing about the state taking someone's life, you better make damn sure you have the right person, cause once they are dead, that is that. There are and have been all sorts of errors and out right lies that have caused many to be executed for crimes they did not commit. Heck, we are now finding out Mrs. Rosenberg wasn't guilty of the crime she was killed for, so what does that tell you?

Films like "I Want To Live" may be high drama, but happen more often than you think. All over the United States there are persons incarcerated for crimes they did not commit, and yes, some are put to death.

LE and others have no respect (or time) by and large for crimes against "hoes" for several reasons. One is because such persons are themselves breaking the law (criminals), and worse repeat offenders. In the greater scheme of things that shouldn't matter, but if someone will continue to meet strangers and go off with them to private areas, what are they supposed to do?

Ok, if you are a trans or anyone, and you are walking down the street, and get attacked, that is one thing. But to go to a stranger's home, get in a stranger's car, or invite a stranger into your home or hotel room, well that is asking for trouble weather or not you take money for sex. It just is not a smart thing to do. Again you often have the same reaction from people about persons who troll the Internet looking for hook-ups, and something goes wrong.

[mishadark]

Europe is streets ahead of the US in terms of justice. They have found you deal with crime by preventing it's cause, which means dealing with the causes such as proverty and lack of education. Rather than simply warehouse criminals with other criminals so they can learn how to be better criminals, you try to eductate and redeem as many first offenders as possible by educating, training and otherwise giving them skills to get on in society. Finally you have laws to prevent needless discrimination in employment, education and housing of criminals.
So TOtALLY WRONG. ITS SHIT HERE IN THE UK
our society is breaking down {including social structure, which is the cause of most crime}
Crime is spiraling up
Wankers in power IE.Gordon Brown {who incidentally fucked me for money, in the cabinet office, during a cabinet reshuffle...the shuffle was me tossing him off.....CUNT}
MASSAGE THE CRIME STATS
JACKIE BROWN CUNT
HARIOT HARMAN FUCKER
they are criminalising sex work
I hope their partners shag around without protection
catch aids
& infect them

I hate them all
FUCKERS

i ALSO HOPE THE IRA OR BIN LADEN KILL THEM ALL.

i ALSO HATE GEORGE BUSH
WANKER

ITS ALL THEIR FAULT

REVOLUTION

[mishadark]

This was preventable. Don't escort. It is not glamorous. It is dangerous in many aspects. It is a gateway to trouble. It is not conducive to a real and normal life.

aLSO WRONG.

most TS escort's do it to pay for ops
& most stop after finishing paying for surgeries
FACT

[Shining Star]

This was preventable. Don't escort. It is not glamorous. It is dangerous in many aspects. It is a gateway to trouble. It is not conducive to a real and normal life.

aLSO WRONG.

most TS escort's do it to pay for ops
& most stop after finishing paying for surgeries
FACTThat simply is not 100% true.

One can scan Eros.com or any other escort media and find post op trannies now working as "GGs" with various levels of sucess. Heck there even was a thread on this site about it.

Personally know about 10 hoes who went from working as trannies to "women", and still are at it today.

The only thing the SRS changes is how you have sex and pee. What is supposed to change once you have the pussy that enables you to jump off that table, and suddenly find a job that you did not have or could not get before the SRS.

It has been my experience that the trannies who stop "working" post SRS, were the ones who already had employment and or a good education, but just couldn't get up the funds for the SRS and the rest on their income. So they worked as an means to an end, then stopped once the goal was reached.

However the above represent a small number of the TS population.

[menacingmethods86]

This was preventable. Don't escort. It is not glamorous. It is dangerous in many aspects. It is a gateway to trouble. It is not conducive to a real and normal life.

aLSO WRONG.

most TS escort's do it to pay for ops
& most stop after finishing paying for surgeries
FACT

That's false. Although I'm sure some do stop after they acquire the money needed for surgery, many continue because they get greedy after they realize how much money they can make.

[mishadark]

IIRC, transgendered women, both pre and post operative have a high level of suicides as a group.

While Ms. Shah's death may have been preceeded by a break-up with her bf, that has been known to send many a person to seek their own death.

It just could have been in Ms. Shah's case she saw what could be coming down the pike.

Sad but very true on the stats.
I dont know about her, but ts stuff can be a burden.
Also there can be other mental issues

My Ts stuff is rapidly fading away as I integrate into a normal life & world.
Loving family & lots of old & new friends are wonderful...love them all
Lifestyle & income & leisure is perfect.

But I keep planning, & making occassional exit attempts...
Nothing to do with TS stuff....thats now apparrent
Just an unconnected darkness inside me
Oh well...
I sought med help & my GP [general praticioner doctor]
as well as being fantastic with all the ts support...gender clinic referrals, meds, bloods, ect
is offering continual support & meds to reset serotonin levels to hopefully sort out depression/suicide stuff
[6 - 8 months to do the job fully]

The first thing is to seek professional help.

I was lucky twice;
firstly 2 close friends insisted I sought help
& secondly my GP being so helpful.

My love to anyone staring at the darkness.

[Shining Star]

Totally did not notice you are from the UK, which could make a difference in many things.

At least you have some form of National Health, which the United States does not. Unless one has good health insurance (from employer or self paid), medical care is dear. Even then there is no promise said plan will cover all if any transgendered realted care.

Yes, it is VERY important for one to be grounded and perhaps away from the "life" as possible. The more positive persons one has around them, the more positive energy and things move with them.

Have several trannie gfs that hoe, and quite honestly cannot hang around them long. Every word out of their mouths revolves around "dates", "ads", "trips", "tours' and such you just want to hit them with a shovel! *LOL*

[Shining Star]

Totally did not notice you are from the UK, which could make a difference in many things.

At least you have some form of National Health, which the United States does not. Unless one has good health insurance (from employer or self paid), medical care is dear. Even then there is no promise said plan will cover all if any transgendered realted care.

Yes, it is VERY important for one to be grounded and perhaps away from the "life" as possible. The more positive persons one has around them, the more positive energy and things move with them.

Have several trannie gfs that hoe, and quite honestly cannot hang around them long. Every word out of their mouths revolves around "dates", "ads", "trips", "tours' and such you just want to hit them with a shovel! *LOL*

[mishadark]

Dup.

[mishadark]

Sympathy:

Solid thought through post,
I agree with much of it.

[mishadark]

Dup.

[peggygee]

Kudos to all on the caliber and quality of responses from those
in this thread.

ShiningStar - would you be so kind as to check your inbox.

[kittyKaiti]

If you plan on raping someone, I hope you don't mind the death penalty.
Sorry, but thats stupid.

WHY should someone who just raped a woman NOT kill her if he gets executed for the rape anyway? Dead people are worse at telling the truth then living ones...

Now you are going to die for rape and murder. There is always the possibility of getting out of a rape charge but when you murder someone you leave a bigger trail of evidence against you. Why are you people backing the criminals? Kill them all.

[Shining Star]

Kudos to all on the caliber and quality of responses from those
in this thread.

ShiningStar - would you be so kind as to check your inbox.Girl I just tried, and the thing is acting up.

Will try again later.

SS

[mishadark]

This was preventable. Don't escort. It is not glamorous. It is dangerous in many aspects. It is a gateway to trouble. It is not conducive to a real and normal life.

aLSO WRONG.

most TS escort's do it to pay for ops
& most stop after finishing paying for surgeries
FACTThat simply is not 100% true.

One can scan Eros.com or any other escort media and find post op trannies now working as "GGs" with various levels of sucess. Heck there even was a thread on this site about it.

Personally know about 10 hoes who went from working as trannies to "women", and still are at it today.

The only thing the SRS changes is how you have sex and pee. What is supposed to change once you have the pussy that enables you to jump off that table, and suddenly find a job that you did not have or could not get before the SRS.

Fair point, but Lots of Ts supplement a good job & income specifically to fund surgeries. Then stop. [means to an end]
Also srs at say $20,000
is not the end of it.

breast aug $5000
FFS up to $ 100,000
Voice coaching $ no idea
Covering rent / mortgage / various utilities bills when not doing any sort of work during surgery recovery period. $ various
- Medication / hormones: $ various
- Psychiatry: $ various
- Laser plus electrolysis hair removal: $up to $$7000 (face), $4,000 (legs & tummy)
- Counselling: $ various
- Misc (eg. new wardrobe): $7,000



Those are approximations as I'm in the UK & all surgeries vary enormously from person to person as we as surgeon to surgeon.


So even with a brill job, these costs can be daunting; adult work offers a way to pay

[mishadark]

Totally did not notice you are from the UK, which could make a difference in many things.

At least you have some form of National Health, which the United States does not. Unless one has good health insurance (from employer or self paid), medical care is dear. Even then there is no promise said plan will cover all if any transgendered realted care.

Well NHS covers meds & SRS but the quality is not cutting edge
You pays your money ect... :roll:
Also, FFS is not available
Even stuff that is in theory there like lazer, doesn't happen.
As PCT's [Primary care Trusts] who are local/ regional controllers of what gets spent, often ignore rule & legislation.
Still, its better than most places.
& in the usa, most / all health care cover SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDES ANY TREATMENT FOR ANY Ts THING, as they say its elective.


Yes, it is VERY important for one to be grounded and perhaps away from the "life" as possible. The more positive persons one has around them, the more positive energy and things move with them.
Yep totally.


Have several trannie gfs that hoe, and quite honestly cannot hang around them long. Every word out of their mouths revolves around "dates", "ads", "trips", "tours' and such you just want to hit them with a shovel! *LOL*

I bet you wanna shout STFU!
Must be very boring.
Get some more interesting friends, you come across as pretty sussed, so dead-heads like those, must do your head in.

[Paladin]

The hotel wanted her to pay for the damages :shock:

Sound like fucking Disney World (Orlando).......whats the name of the hotel ? she should take legal action against them for that alone.

And I'm sure the hotels are just fine with girls "working" out of their rooms. like they do - and the fine manner in which the rooms are usually left.

[Paladin]

Just curious why does this guys like attacking Transsexuals? This kind of thing is not very common in Asia :?

Asia has laws that the United States is too pussy to enact. We need to execute all of our death row inmates and start publicly assaulting violent criminals. Public executions, harsher punishments, longer sentences. Assault = 25 to life. Rape = life imprisonment. Murder = death penalty. We need to start cleansing the nation of crime, a war on crime persay. There's a near 0% crime rate in Asia because of the extraordinary laws they have. The U.S. justice system is a shithole and an embarassment. And for all those hippies that are against such extremes, STFU and simply don't break the law.

Near 0% crime in asia ?? WTF are you smoking?????

[arnie666]

If you plan on raping someone, I hope you don't mind the death penalty.
Sorry, but thats stupid.

WHY should someone who just raped a woman NOT kill her if he gets executed for the rape anyway? Dead people are worse at telling the truth then living ones...

Now you are going to die for rape and murder. There is always the possibility of getting out of a rape charge but when you murder someone you leave a bigger trail of evidence against you. Why are you people backing the criminals? Kill them all.

:D . I like you. I would also add to the list human rights lawyers,journos and social workers and quite a few politicians. Without them the world would be a much more civilised place to be in.Thats what these people arguing with you don't understand.When someone acts in such an uncivilised manner in a civilised society, rapes, murders, molests children we must put the majority first and put them down as we would a rabid dog.

When someone knowingly commits such crimes and knows the concequences they must forfeit certain rights.

[muhmuh]

its funny how quickly nutty political views can change what you think of somebody

[Bob's Tgirls]

Stories like this are always disturbing.

What is also disturbing to me is all the violence and hatred transgenders inflict on each other. I'd like to know when that will stop.

[SarahG]

At least you have some form of National Health, which the United States does not.

NHS is a joke.

Sometimes no coverage is better than BAD coverage.

Under NHS if you're DIY, they make you go off of HRT until your levels go back to normal just to get a base line to compare to in the future. There is nothing to justify that practice, its done strictly to make the process extra abrasive.

Under NHS it can take years just to get on HRT. To tell patients they need to go fulltime pre-everything to get on HRT, and then make them wait 5-6 years to get on HRT, is bullshit. Googling transsexual & NHS finds so many horror stories just from the past 4 years where trans patients had to wait 5 years OR MORE to get on HRT shows just how fucked up NHS really is.

Under NHS you need a GID diagnosis to get on HRT, and to do that- whether you play the NHS way or go private, there are very few places for the patient to go to get that diagnosis. NHS doesn't give a shit how long it takes for a patient to transition, they only care about whether or not it happens. It could take the person thirty years to get all their trans related treatments from NHS, and that would be enough to satisfy all of the NHS obligations to the patient.

At least in the US where everything is expensive, coverage is usually nonexistant, and the government doesn't even know themselves what to make of us- patients can go doctor to doctor until they find one who actually knows what they're doing. If a doctor thinks you need to wait 5 years to get on HRT, you can turn around, say "thanks but no thanks" and go somewhere else. There's no going off of hrt to punish those who have been on it DIY, and you can get a formal diagnosis virtually anywhere if you need it (and you don't need it to go on HRT in the US).

And you know what happens when the economy takes a shit and the gov has to balance the budget? They take it out of gov health care funding before anything else.

-We've seen it with cutting back the VA in the US to pay for the war in iraq
-We've seen the removal of trans treatment in Canada during hard times to balance the budget.
-And we've seen the disclaimers about denying coverage due to funding issues in the UK.

The VA used to pay for transitions, but the general public and the media went to town on that practice, likened it to using tax payer dollars to pay for breast implants. Now it is explicitly forbidden for the VA to supply ANY trans related treatments, including HRT. The same kind of outcry would have the same kind of result if we had NHS.

[BrendaQG]

Sara dont waste the effort. Your trying to convince liberal Democrats that big government isn't the solution to all their troubles.

kittyKaiti: I just have to say that what you are proposing, strict law and order with public punishment but no religion.... Sound like you want to impose Islamic law but not Islam.

Because the system of government you are describing, from Asia, is in fact Islamic law. Murder rape and robbery still happen there.

[peggygee]

The VA used to pay for transitions, but the general public and the media went to town on that practice, likened it to using tax payer dollars to pay for breast implants. Now it is explicitly forbidden for the VA to supply ANY trans related treatments, including HRT. The same kind of outcry would have the same kind of result if we had NHS.

Transwomen do often-times face discrimination at Veteran Administration
facilities, as evidenced by this recent survey by TAVA. (http://www.tavausa.org/Survey_Responses.html)

However, there is no blanket prohibition against trans-related care such
as HRT, counselling, orchiechtomy, breast exams, etc. Though SRS
will not be covered as has been stated.

Here outlined is VA policy as regards treatment of trans-people:

POLICY:

a. When a transgender veteran presents for health care at any VA Healthcare System facility, including specific male or female health issues, the veteran will be provided health care, consistent with VHA policies for all patients. Health care will be delivered to that veteran, based upon that veteran's self-identified gender, recognizing that unique health issues are associated with some transgender patients.

As an example, a male-to-female transsexual will be referred to as "she" in all contacts and documents irrespective of appearance and/or surgical history. It is appropriate for such treatment to occur in women's health clinics and in women's housing for residential and inpatient programs. If the veteran is taking hormone therapy, there are increased medical risks for breast cancer, pituitary and liver problems, as well as cardiovascular disease. Moreover, there may be screenings that are appropriate to conduct ( e.g., prostate exams) or not to conduct (e.g., pap smear) that are not typical procedure for staff in women's clinics. However, appropriate screenings to address these issues will occur and are the responsibility of the provider to monitor.

b. Veterans will be addressed, and referred to, on the basis of their self-identified gender (e.g. "she" for a male-to-female transgender individual), regardless of the veteran's appearance and/or surgical history. Computerized documentation of gender should also be consistent with the veteran's self-identified gender, including salutations on computer-generated letters to patients. Transgender veterans are encouraged to request this documentation change.

c. Room assignments and access to any facilities for which gender is normally a consideration ( e.g., restrooms) will proceed on the basis of self-identified gender, irrespective of appearance and/or surgical history.

d. As per Code of Federal Regulations Title 38, Chapter 17, Section 38.c, VA Healthcare System does not provide surgery or funding of gender revision surgery (commonly referred to as sex reassignment surgery or SRS).

e. Hormonal therapy will be provided for a transgender patient in a manner consistent with the prevailing standard of care. Health care providers unfamiliar with this aspect of care will consult with providers who have this expertise. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate using Fee-for-Services payment as consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

f. Mental health services, including treatment for diagnoses recognized by the American Psychiatric Association will be provided as appropriate to the veteran's overall VHA plan of care. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate. Using Fee-for-Services payment will be consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

g. Providing care to transgender patients may present unique situations and clinical questions. These should be managed on a case-by-case basis, but always with adherence to the basic principles set forth in VA policy including M-2, Part XIV, Chapter 11 (November 17, 1993). As an example, it may be medically indicated that a male-to-female transsexual undergo an orchiectomy (removal of testes) to reduce exposure to testosterone agonists (known to have adverse side effects). This type of situation would be considered acceptable procedure. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate, using Fee-for-Services payment as consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

h. Transgender patients will be cared for in an environment of openness, respect and honesty. A veteran's physical status, surgical history, hormonal status, and medications are private, but should be available to providers directly involved in the veteran's care. In this way, the veteran is assured quality care, minimized risk of adverse pharmacological events ( e.g., in the case of hormonal medication prescriptions), and provided with a supportive environment free of discrimination. Patient privacy and confidentiality will be protected in concordance with HIPAA guidelines.

i. VA Healthcare System staff are responsible for the safety of all patients and are encouraged to manage negative reactions of patients/staff toward transgender patients as they would other instances of discriminatory behavior.

[Celeste]

It would be cool to have a site, where the girls, can report incidences. Like a warning on, what cites, who, descriptions, numbers, areas, how it happened, when, etc... But alot of girls wont confess to stuff like this :cry:

[SarahG]

The VA used to pay for transitions, but the general public and the media went to town on that practice, likened it to using tax payer dollars to pay for breast implants. Now it is explicitly forbidden for the VA to supply ANY trans related treatments, including HRT. The same kind of outcry would have the same kind of result if we had NHS.

Transwomen do often-times face discrimination at Veteran Administration
facilities, as evidenced by this recent survey by TAVA. (http://www.tavausa.org/Survey_Responses.html)

However, there is no blanket prohibition against trans-related care such
as HRT, counselling, orchiechtomy, breast exams, etc. Though SRS
will not be covered as has been stated.

Here outlined is VA policy as regards treatment of trans-people:

POLICY:

a. When a transgender veteran presents for health care at any VA Healthcare System facility, including specific male or female health issues, the veteran will be provided health care, consistent with VHA policies for all patients. Health care will be delivered to that veteran, based upon that veteran's self-identified gender, recognizing that unique health issues are associated with some transgender patients.

As an example, a male-to-female transsexual will be referred to as "she" in all contacts and documents irrespective of appearance and/or surgical history. It is appropriate for such treatment to occur in women's health clinics and in women's housing for residential and inpatient programs. If the veteran is taking hormone therapy, there are increased medical risks for breast cancer, pituitary and liver problems, as well as cardiovascular disease. Moreover, there may be screenings that are appropriate to conduct ( e.g., prostate exams) or not to conduct (e.g., pap smear) that are not typical procedure for staff in women's clinics. However, appropriate screenings to address these issues will occur and are the responsibility of the provider to monitor.

b. Veterans will be addressed, and referred to, on the basis of their self-identified gender (e.g. "she" for a male-to-female transgender individual), regardless of the veteran's appearance and/or surgical history. Computerized documentation of gender should also be consistent with the veteran's self-identified gender, including salutations on computer-generated letters to patients. Transgender veterans are encouraged to request this documentation change.

c. Room assignments and access to any facilities for which gender is normally a consideration ( e.g., restrooms) will proceed on the basis of self-identified gender, irrespective of appearance and/or surgical history.

d. As per Code of Federal Regulations Title 38, Chapter 17, Section 38.c, VA Healthcare System does not provide surgery or funding of gender revision surgery (commonly referred to as sex reassignment surgery or SRS).

e. Hormonal therapy will be provided for a transgender patient in a manner consistent with the prevailing standard of care. Health care providers unfamiliar with this aspect of care will consult with providers who have this expertise. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate using Fee-for-Services payment as consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

f. Mental health services, including treatment for diagnoses recognized by the American Psychiatric Association will be provided as appropriate to the veteran's overall VHA plan of care. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate. Using Fee-for-Services payment will be consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

g. Providing care to transgender patients may present unique situations and clinical questions. These should be managed on a case-by-case basis, but always with adherence to the basic principles set forth in VA policy including M-2, Part XIV, Chapter 11 (November 17, 1993). As an example, it may be medically indicated that a male-to-female transsexual undergo an orchiectomy (removal of testes) to reduce exposure to testosterone agonists (known to have adverse side effects). This type of situation would be considered acceptable procedure. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate, using Fee-for-Services payment as consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

h. Transgender patients will be cared for in an environment of openness, respect and honesty. A veteran's physical status, surgical history, hormonal status, and medications are private, but should be available to providers directly involved in the veteran's care. In this way, the veteran is assured quality care, minimized risk of adverse pharmacological events ( e.g., in the case of hormonal medication prescriptions), and provided with a supportive environment free of discrimination. Patient privacy and confidentiality will be protected in concordance with HIPAA guidelines.

i. VA Healthcare System staff are responsible for the safety of all patients and are encouraged to manage negative reactions of patients/staff toward transgender patients as they would other instances of discriminatory behavior.

Wouldn't that fly against CITE: 38CFR17.38 Code of Federal Regulations (Title 38, Chap. 17, Sec. 38.c)?

The prohibition does not say surgery specifically. It is broad enough to prohibit trans treatment en mass for anyone who interprets the regulation looking for a way to deny treatment.

The term they use is "gender alteration" which could easily be taken to include HRT, especially since "gender alteration" is never defined in the regulations (certainly not to the point to say it is a surgery or a specific type of surgery- it would be an assumption to say they mean genital surgeries).

[kittyKaiti]

kittyKaiti: I just have to say that what you are proposing, strict law and order with public punishment but no religion.... Sound like you want to impose Islamic law but not Islam.

Because the system of government you are describing, from Asia, is in fact Islamic law. Murder rape and robbery still happen there.

LOL, Islamic law promotes the assault and rape of women, torturing of children, child molestation, terrorism, genocide, mass murder and suicide. I'm simply saying that we start beating the crap out of rapists and murderers and execute all of them.

[peggygee]

The VA used to pay for transitions, but the general public and the media went to town on that practice, likened it to using tax payer dollars to pay for breast implants. Now it is explicitly forbidden for the VA to supply ANY trans related treatments, including HRT. The same kind of outcry would have the same kind of result if we had NHS.

Transwomen do often-times face discrimination at Veteran Administration
facilities, as evidenced by this recent survey by TAVA. (http://www.tavausa.org/Survey_Responses.html)

However, there is no blanket prohibition against trans-related care such
as HRT, counselling, orchiechtomy, breast exams, etc. Though SRS
will not be covered as has been stated.

Here outlined is VA policy as regards treatment of trans-people:

POLICY:

a. When a transgender veteran presents for health care at any VA Healthcare System facility, including specific male or female health issues, the veteran will be provided health care, consistent with VHA policies for all patients. Health care will be delivered to that veteran, based upon that veteran's self-identified gender, recognizing that unique health issues are associated with some transgender patients.

As an example, a male-to-female transsexual will be referred to as "she" in all contacts and documents irrespective of appearance and/or surgical history. It is appropriate for such treatment to occur in women's health clinics and in women's housing for residential and inpatient programs. If the veteran is taking hormone therapy, there are increased medical risks for breast cancer, pituitary and liver problems, as well as cardiovascular disease. Moreover, there may be screenings that are appropriate to conduct ( e.g., prostate exams) or not to conduct (e.g., pap smear) that are not typical procedure for staff in women's clinics. However, appropriate screenings to address these issues will occur and are the responsibility of the provider to monitor.

b. Veterans will be addressed, and referred to, on the basis of their self-identified gender (e.g. "she" for a male-to-female transgender individual), regardless of the veteran's appearance and/or surgical history. Computerized documentation of gender should also be consistent with the veteran's self-identified gender, including salutations on computer-generated letters to patients. Transgender veterans are encouraged to request this documentation change.

c. Room assignments and access to any facilities for which gender is normally a consideration ( e.g., restrooms) will proceed on the basis of self-identified gender, irrespective of appearance and/or surgical history.

d. As per Code of Federal Regulations Title 38, Chapter 17, Section 38.c, VA Healthcare System does not provide surgery or funding of gender revision surgery (commonly referred to as sex reassignment surgery or SRS).

e. Hormonal therapy will be provided for a transgender patient in a manner consistent with the prevailing standard of care. Health care providers unfamiliar with this aspect of care will consult with providers who have this expertise. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate using Fee-for-Services payment as consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

f. Mental health services, including treatment for diagnoses recognized by the American Psychiatric Association will be provided as appropriate to the veteran's overall VHA plan of care. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate. Using Fee-for-Services payment will be consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

g. Providing care to transgender patients may present unique situations and clinical questions. These should be managed on a case-by-case basis, but always with adherence to the basic principles set forth in VA policy including M-2, Part XIV, Chapter 11 (November 17, 1993). As an example, it may be medically indicated that a male-to-female transsexual undergo an orchiectomy (removal of testes) to reduce exposure to testosterone agonists (known to have adverse side effects). This type of situation would be considered acceptable procedure. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate, using Fee-for-Services payment as consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

h. Transgender patients will be cared for in an environment of openness, respect and honesty. A veteran's physical status, surgical history, hormonal status, and medications are private, but should be available to providers directly involved in the veteran's care. In this way, the veteran is assured quality care, minimized risk of adverse pharmacological events ( e.g., in the case of hormonal medication prescriptions), and provided with a supportive environment free of discrimination. Patient privacy and confidentiality will be protected in concordance with HIPAA guidelines.

i. VA Healthcare System staff are responsible for the safety of all patients and are encouraged to manage negative reactions of patients/staff toward transgender patients as they would other instances of discriminatory behavior.

Wouldn't that fly against CITE: 38CFR17.38 Code of Federal Regulations (Title 38, Chap. 17, Sec. 38.c)?

The prohibition does not say surgery specifically. It is broad enough to prohibit trans treatment en mass for anyone who interprets the regulation looking for a way to deny treatment.

The term they use is "gender alteration" which could easily be taken to include HRT, especially since "gender alteration" is never defined in the regulations (certainly not to the point to say it is a surgery or a specific type of surgery- it would be an assumption to say they mean genital surgeries).

I can see how a strict constructionist could infer the prohibitions on
gender alteration to preclude GRS, HRT, orchiechtomy, counselling,
etc., fortunately for the trans-community that has not proven to be
the case, with the exception of GRS.

Here for the edification of interested parties is CODE OF FEDERAL
REGULATIONS TITLE 38, CHAPTER 17, SECTION 38.C


(c) In addition to the care specifically excluded from the ``medical
benefits package'' under paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section, the
``medical benefits package'' does not include the following:

[[Page 606]]

(1) Abortions and abortion counseling.
(2) In vitro fertilization.

(3) Drugs, biologicals, and medical devices not approved by the Food
and Drug Administration unless the treating medical facility is
conducting formal clinical trials under an Investigational Device
Exemption (IDE) or an Investigational New Drug (IND) application, or the
drugs, biologicals, or medical devices are prescribed under a
compassionate use exemption.

(4) Gender alterations.

(5) Hospital and outpatient care for a veteran who is either a
patient or inmate in an institution of another government agency if that
agency has a duty to give the care or services.

(6) Membership in spas and health clubs.

[SarahG]

The VA used to pay for transitions, but the general public and the media went to town on that practice, likened it to using tax payer dollars to pay for breast implants. Now it is explicitly forbidden for the VA to supply ANY trans related treatments, including HRT. The same kind of outcry would have the same kind of result if we had NHS.

Transwomen do often-times face discrimination at Veteran Administration
facilities, as evidenced by this recent survey by TAVA. (http://www.tavausa.org/Survey_Responses.html)

However, there is no blanket prohibition against trans-related care such
as HRT, counselling, orchiechtomy, breast exams, etc. Though SRS
will not be covered as has been stated.

Here outlined is VA policy as regards treatment of trans-people:

POLICY:

a. When a transgender veteran presents for health care at any VA Healthcare System facility, including specific male or female health issues, the veteran will be provided health care, consistent with VHA policies for all patients. Health care will be delivered to that veteran, based upon that veteran's self-identified gender, recognizing that unique health issues are associated with some transgender patients.

As an example, a male-to-female transsexual will be referred to as "she" in all contacts and documents irrespective of appearance and/or surgical history. It is appropriate for such treatment to occur in women's health clinics and in women's housing for residential and inpatient programs. If the veteran is taking hormone therapy, there are increased medical risks for breast cancer, pituitary and liver problems, as well as cardiovascular disease. Moreover, there may be screenings that are appropriate to conduct ( e.g., prostate exams) or not to conduct (e.g., pap smear) that are not typical procedure for staff in women's clinics. However, appropriate screenings to address these issues will occur and are the responsibility of the provider to monitor.

b. Veterans will be addressed, and referred to, on the basis of their self-identified gender (e.g. "she" for a male-to-female transgender individual), regardless of the veteran's appearance and/or surgical history. Computerized documentation of gender should also be consistent with the veteran's self-identified gender, including salutations on computer-generated letters to patients. Transgender veterans are encouraged to request this documentation change.

c. Room assignments and access to any facilities for which gender is normally a consideration ( e.g., restrooms) will proceed on the basis of self-identified gender, irrespective of appearance and/or surgical history.

d. As per Code of Federal Regulations Title 38, Chapter 17, Section 38.c, VA Healthcare System does not provide surgery or funding of gender revision surgery (commonly referred to as sex reassignment surgery or SRS).

e. Hormonal therapy will be provided for a transgender patient in a manner consistent with the prevailing standard of care. Health care providers unfamiliar with this aspect of care will consult with providers who have this expertise. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate using Fee-for-Services payment as consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

f. Mental health services, including treatment for diagnoses recognized by the American Psychiatric Association will be provided as appropriate to the veteran's overall VHA plan of care. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate. Using Fee-for-Services payment will be consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

g. Providing care to transgender patients may present unique situations and clinical questions. These should be managed on a case-by-case basis, but always with adherence to the basic principles set forth in VA policy including M-2, Part XIV, Chapter 11 (November 17, 1993). As an example, it may be medically indicated that a male-to-female transsexual undergo an orchiectomy (removal of testes) to reduce exposure to testosterone agonists (known to have adverse side effects). This type of situation would be considered acceptable procedure. Referral to community providers and agencies for this care may be made as appropriate, using Fee-for-Services payment as consistent with overall VHA guidelines.

h. Transgender patients will be cared for in an environment of openness, respect and honesty. A veteran's physical status, surgical history, hormonal status, and medications are private, but should be available to providers directly involved in the veteran's care. In this way, the veteran is assured quality care, minimized risk of adverse pharmacological events ( e.g., in the case of hormonal medication prescriptions), and provided with a supportive environment free of discrimination. Patient privacy and confidentiality will be protected in concordance with HIPAA guidelines.

i. VA Healthcare System staff are responsible for the safety of all patients and are encouraged to manage negative reactions of patients/staff toward transgender patients as they would other instances of discriminatory behavior.

Wouldn't that fly against CITE: 38CFR17.38 Code of Federal Regulations (Title 38, Chap. 17, Sec. 38.c)?

The prohibition does not say surgery specifically. It is broad enough to prohibit trans treatment en mass for anyone who interprets the regulation looking for a way to deny treatment.

The term they use is "gender alteration" which could easily be taken to include HRT, especially since "gender alteration" is never defined in the regulations (certainly not to the point to say it is a surgery or a specific type of surgery- it would be an assumption to say they mean genital surgeries).

I can see how a strict constructionist could infer the prohibitions on
gender alteration to preclude GRS, HRT, orchiechtomy, counselling,
etc., fortunately for the trans-community that has not proven to be
the case, with the exception of GRS.

Here for the edification of interested parties is CODE OF FEDERAL
REGULATIONS TITLE 38, CHAPTER 17, SECTION 38.C


(c) In addition to the care specifically excluded from the ``medical
benefits package'' under paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section, the
``medical benefits package'' does not include the following:

[[Page 606]]

(1) Abortions and abortion counseling.
(2) In vitro fertilization.

(3) Drugs, biologicals, and medical devices not approved by the Food
and Drug Administration unless the treating medical facility is
conducting formal clinical trials under an Investigational Device
Exemption (IDE) or an Investigational New Drug (IND) application, or the
drugs, biologicals, or medical devices are prescribed under a
compassionate use exemption.

(4) Gender alterations.

(5) Hospital and outpatient care for a veteran who is either a
patient or inmate in an institution of another government agency if that
agency has a duty to give the care or services.

(6) Membership in spas and health clubs.

You gotta love laws & regulations that are both 1- stupid and 2- vague. :banghead :banghead :banghead