DOES THIS STILL HAPPEN IN A FREE COUNTRY?

[Danielle Foxx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2bJmMKZ5k&feature=related

Stuff like this makes me so sad to be a human...

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

we are one of the few countries in the world that don't execute gay soldiers, consider that

[rico87]

A friend of mine from Pakistan told me if 2 guys are caught kissing in Public automatic 25 years or public stoning to death. NO JOKE !

America is not perfect but alot better than most countries.

[ribery]

America's tolerance of homosexuality is far more advanced than many countries in the middle and far east but is still relatively behind compared to most countries in the west I think.

[Solitary Brother]

we are one of the few countries in the world that don't execute gay soldiers, consider that

Name the others......with refrences please.
I dont think you can.

[muhmuh]

A friend of mine from Pakistan told me if 2 guys are caught kissing in Public automatic 25 years or public stoning to death. NO JOKE !

America is not perfect but alot better than most countries.

when did pakistan suddenly become the yardstick?

[rico87]

America's tolerance of homosexuality is far more advanced than many countries in the middle and far east but is still relatively behind compared to most countries in the west I think.

I lived in Spain,England,Italy,Germany but there is still alot of hate. France, Canada,Holland may be the only countries that is the more accepting than the USA.

Forget Eastern Europe Romania, Bulgaria,Russia, Poland its a nightmare worst than machismo Cental and South America.

[Solitary Brother]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARW65OucJnA&feature=related

[ribery]

America's tolerance of homosexuality is far more advanced than many countries in the middle and far east but is still relatively behind compared to most countries in the west I think.

I lived in Spain,England,Italy,Germany but there is still alot of hate. France, Canada,Holland may be the only countries that is the more accepting than the USA.

Forget Eastern Europe Romania, Bulgaria,Russia, Poland its a nightmare worst than machismo Cental and South America.

I found England and Germany more tolerant than expected but I can really only speak for Ireland on the case. Over the last few years it has become very much part of the normal culture here, while legalising gay marriage here is still WAY off the cards, there are relatively no cases of acts of violence or hatred perpetrated against gay people over here that I know of.

[Solitary Brother]

ISRAEL

[rico87]

America's tolerance of homosexuality is far more advanced than many countries in the middle and far east but is still relatively behind compared to most countries in the west I think.

I lived in Spain,England,Italy,Germany but there is still alot of hate. France, Canada,Holland may be the only countries that is the more accepting than the USA.

Forget Eastern Europe Romania, Bulgaria,Russia, Poland its a nightmare worst than machismo Cental and South America.

I found England and Germany more tolerant than expected but I can really only speak for Ireland on the case. Over the last few years it has become very much part of the normal culture here, while legalising gay marriage here is still WAY off the cards, there are relatively no cases of acts of violence or hatred perpetrated against gay people over here that I know of.



Gays are not the issue in Ireland its the on going war with the catholics and protestants, where being Protestant in Belfast can find yourself with a knife in your back. Goes to show you how in a developed country like Ireland its sad that Catholic and protestants can't date. It will always be the Rangers vs Celtics.

[ribery]

America's tolerance of homosexuality is far more advanced than many countries in the middle and far east but is still relatively behind compared to most countries in the west I think.

I lived in Spain,England,Italy,Germany but there is still alot of hate. France, Canada,Holland may be the only countries that is the more accepting than the USA.

Forget Eastern Europe Romania, Bulgaria,Russia, Poland its a nightmare worst than machismo Cental and South America.

I found England and Germany more tolerant than expected but I can really only speak for Ireland on the case. Over the last few years it has become very much part of the normal culture here, while legalising gay marriage here is still WAY off the cards, there are relatively no cases of acts of violence or hatred perpetrated against gay people over here that I know of.



Gays are not the issue in Ireland its the on going war with the catholics and protestants, where being Protestant in Belfast can find yourself with a knife in your back. Goes to show you how in a developed country like Ireland its sad that Catholic and protestants can't date. It will always be the Rangers vs Celtics.

That's only in Northern Ireland. Not the republic. Down here nobody cares what religion you are.

[rico87]

Well thats good because I have taken the ferry to Glasgow(Catholic) with drunk Ranger fans two years and all they wanted to do were find Celtic (protestant)fans to beat up.

How is the transgirl scene in Dublin these days ? Any bars or clubs ?

May take a trip if the bloody pound keeps dropping.

[ribery]

Well thats good because I have taken the ferry to Glasgow(Catholic) with drunk Ranger fans two years and all they wanted to do were find Celtic (protestant)fans to beat up.

How is the transgirl scene in Dublin these days ? Any bars or clubs ?

May take a trip if the bloody pound keeps dropping.

The Rangers Celtic rivalry is something I stay out of, mainly cause of my lack of interest in the SPL but also because a lot of fans are more interested in the rivalry than football.

As for Dublin's trans scene I have no idea as I rarely frequent the capital. I'm from Galway on the west coast, in which the trans scene is entirely non existent.

[rico87]

Galway is gorgeous Eyre Square great Pubs with good food and cold beer. Friendly people alot of Filipinos and Nigerians have moved near the harbour. Irish economy is strong, now if Trappatoni can get them to South Africa 2010, the place will be a funfest.

You are lucky man living in a great country. No recession there.

[muhmuh]

I lived in Spain,England,Italy,Germany but there is still alot of hate.

excuse me? where exactly is the hate in germany with the exception of a few skins in the east that hate everyone including themself?

[arnie666]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2bJmMKZ5k&feature=related

Stuff like this makes me so sad to be a human...

I know exactly what you mean. A bunch of poofters not letting the General speak about his beliefs without rudely interrupting him. They should all have been removed after the second outburst. I don't agree with his views but he is entitled to them and to the voice them where he wished that is freedom of speech. I have served with an 'immoral' Gay and I would have trusted her with my life.

[arnie666]

[quote=Danielle Foxx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2bJmMKZ5k&feature=related

Stuff like this makes me so sad to be a human...

I

[phobun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2bJmMKZ5k&feature=related

Stuff like this makes me so sad to be a human...
Unfortunately this is not relevant to this forum because nobody is gay here.

[ribery]

I lived in Spain,England,Italy,Germany but there is still alot of hate.

excuse me? where exactly is the hate in germany with the exception of a few skins in the east that hate everyone including themself?

I agree. I've been to Germany quite a few times and found the place very tolerant of all lifestyles. Sure there are a few assholes but you'll find them everywhere and anywhere.

[hondarobot]

Why is a thread about US military policy towards gay people in the service suddenly turning towards a love fest for Germany? It's German propaganda! Those krauts will never be happy until they finally win a world war.

:lol:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1k7U-_tJVmw&feature=related

[BlackMath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2bJmMKZ5k&feature=related

Stuff like this makes me so sad to be a human...
Unfortunately this is not relevant to this forum because nobody is gay here.

TG Chasers cop more shit than gay people.
How can you not empathise?

[arnie666]

I lived in Spain,England,Italy,Germany but there is still alot of hate.

excuse me? where exactly is the hate in germany with the exception of a few skins in the east that hate everyone including themself?

Well in Britain unless you live in the special homo zones in manchester or parts or London ,Brighton or perhaps some of the touristy areas I think we are less tolerant of poofs. than the Americans are despite all the stupid hate laws. Bit of a myth I think that somehow Britain is more Gay friendly just because of our slight effeteness compared to those good ol boys of the deep south. In fact one of my mates thinks women are for poofs, can't quite work that one out...I think he might be a closet case.

[BlackMath]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe2bJmMKZ5k&feature=related

Stuff like this makes me so sad to be a human...
Unfortunately this is not relevant to this forum because nobody is gay here.

TG Chasers cop more shit than gay people.
How can you not empathise?

Actually, slight re-negging of my last statement.

What I mean is, there are straight people, AND gay people that have issues with tranny chasers.

Gay people obviously have it worse though.

[sucka4chix]

Ok, can someone point out all the parts of his speech that were so bad???
I understand in this super PC, tolerate everything society anything that isnt a love fest is deemed a reason for dismissal, but I'd like to know the points that anger everyone.

[Richctdude]

very very sad

[MrShow52]

YES THANK GOD THIS STILL HAPPENS CAUSE IF IT DIDN'T WE WOULDN'T BE LIVING IN A FREE COUNTRY. LET HIM EXPRESS HIS OPINION EVEN IF IT'S BACKWARDS AND IGNORANT. FREEDOM DOES NOT MEAN FREEDOM FROM BEING OFFENDED!

[johnlinzer]

Nobody realizes the value and purpose of anti-homosexual laws in the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). The general is speaking of morality, which is not the value of this particular law. Civilians speak of injustice, but justice is not the purpose of this law.

In the military, individuals can have no value. The skills the individual has can have a value, but personal, intimate value for a single person decreases the ability to fight and die for the country. When I was in the Navy I knew that if I was trapped in a space that was taking on water, my shipmates would seal me in that space to save the ship. Soldiers and Marines know that the mission and the country are more important than themselves. Service members are expendable. They are cogs in a greater machine. That's not just the way it has always been, it's the way it has to be.

Ah, but if you love someone, that person has value. If you fall in love with someone, that person becomes the most valueable person in the world to the one in love. The thing is, this love doesn't even have to be recipricated. We have all been in love with someone that didn't know it.

Missions fail because of this all the time. For example: I would be willing to bet that when that naval aviator landed his EP3 Orion on Chinese soil 8 years ago, he did it be cause he loved someone on board. Every spook and every airdale knows you don't land your spy plane on the very country you are spying on. You crash that sucker at sea, even if that means all hands are lost. The software may have been erased, but the hardware, hell the entire plane was completely intact. The chinese immediately started reverse-engineering that bird, and are still doing so today. The boon to Chinese intelligence in incalculable. But, hey, he got to save his sweetie!

Even if I'm wrong, you can see where the primise still holds water. The value and purpose of anti-sodomy laws is the same as anti-fraternization laws. It keeps them focused on the mission. It keeps them expendable.

[SarahG]

Why is a thread about US military policy towards gay people in the service suddenly turning towards a love fest for Germany? It's German propaganda! Those krauts will never be happy until they finally win a world war.

:lol:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1k7U-_tJVmw&feature=related

Fick deine mutter. :roll: Ich gebe nicht einen schei über ihre anglo lügen.

...ok, maybe that was rude on my part, if it is I apologize. But Germany is pretty relevant to this thread. The point is that the civilized world has long since gotten over the "lets execute anyone in the military who is gay" bullshit (and thankfully so have we).

Sure, if you go far enough back things were different. But if you go far enough back the United States used to detain gays, give them lobotomies and keep them in prisons along side schizophrenics. We've had eugenic programs involving forced sterilization. We've had schools that existed solely to deprogram and re-educate the masses for propaganda purposes (Pratt's schools anyone?), and we've had state laws that not only outlawed anal sex, but put those convicted of having it on sex offender lists. There are people still on the sex offender lists, kept away from children, and kept away from schools- simply from having had anal sex back when it was illegal.

We even had the Mann Act so that the feds could take people who transport females across state lines for obscene purposes (like going on vacation to FL and having anal sex while there), send them to federal prisons, take away their voting rights, and take away their gun ownership rights... just to thrust some archaic version of morality down the peoples' throats.

BTW the Mann Act is still on the books and enforced, so if you take your GG girlfriend with you to another state (say your job has you relocate)- a state with cohabitation laws, then you can end up with a felony on your record simply for crossing state lines & moving to such a state while unmarried. You can even end up doing hard time for it.



A friend of mine from Pakistan told me if 2 guys are caught kissing in Public automatic 25 years or public stoning to death. NO JOKE !

America is not perfect but alot better than most countries.

when did pakistan suddenly become the yardstick?

About eight years ago.

[lahabra1976]

YES THANK GOD THIS STILL HAPPENS CAUSE IF IT DIDN'T WE WOULDN'T BE LIVING IN A FREE COUNTRY. LET HIM EXPRESS HIS OPINION EVEN IF IT'S BACKWARDS AND IGNORANT. FREEDOM DOES NOT MEAN FREEDOM FROM BEING OFFENDED!

Freedom isn't free

[MrShow52]

Nobody realizes the value and purpose of anti-homosexual laws in the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). The general is speaking of morality, which is not the value of this particular law. Civilians speak of injustice, but justice is not the purpose of this law.

In the military, individuals can have no value. The skills the individual has can have a value, but personal, intimate value for a single person decreases the ability to fight and die for the country. When I was in the Navy I knew that if I was trapped in a space that was taking on water, my shipmates would seal me in that space to save the ship. Soldiers and Marines know that the mission and the country are more important than themselves. Service members are expendable. They are cogs in a greater machine. That's not just the way it has always been, it's the way it has to be.

Ah, but if you love someone, that person has value. If you fall in love with someone, that person becomes the most valueable person in the world to the one in love. The thing is, this love doesn't even have to be recipricated. We have all been in love with someone that didn't know it.

Missions fail because of this all the time. For example: I would be willing to bet that when that naval aviator landed his EP3 Orion on Chinese soil 8 years ago, he did it be cause he loved someone on board. Every spook and every airdale knows you don't land your spy plane on the very country you are spying on. You crash that sucker at sea, even if that means all hands are lost. The software may have been erased, but the hardware, hell the entire plane was completely intact. The chinese immediately started reverse-engineering that bird, and are still doing so today. The boon to Chinese intelligence in incalculable. But, hey, he got to save his sweetie!

Even if I'm wrong, you can see where the primise still holds water. The value and purpose of anti-sodomy laws is the same as anti-fraternization laws. It keeps them focused on the mission. It keeps them expendable.

you make a great point but no one will listen to you because they all need something to whine about. Military doesn't have to/need to/shouldn't be fair, it should just be efficient.

[SarahG]

Nobody realizes the value and purpose of anti-homosexual laws in the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). The general is speaking of morality, which is not the value of this particular law. Civilians speak of injustice, but justice is not the purpose of this law.

In the military, individuals can have no value. The skills the individual has can have a value, but personal, intimate value for a single person decreases the ability to fight and die for the country. When I was in the Navy I knew that if I was trapped in a space that was taking on water, my shipmates would seal me in that space to save the ship. Soldiers and Marines know that the mission and the country are more important than themselves. Service members are expendable. They are cogs in a greater machine. That's not just the way it has always been, it's the way it has to be.

Ah, but if you love someone, that person has value. If you fall in love with someone, that person becomes the most valueable person in the world to the one in love. The thing is, this love doesn't even have to be recipricated. We have all been in love with someone that didn't know it.

Missions fail because of this all the time. For example: I would be willing to bet that when that naval aviator landed his EP3 Orion on Chinese soil 8 years ago, he did it be cause he loved someone on board. Every spook and every airdale knows you don't land your spy plane on the very country you are spying on. You crash that sucker at sea, even if that means all hands are lost. The software may have been erased, but the hardware, hell the entire plane was completely intact. The chinese immediately started reverse-engineering that bird, and are still doing so today. The boon to Chinese intelligence in incalculable. But, hey, he got to save his sweetie!

Even if I'm wrong, you can see where the primise still holds water. The value and purpose of anti-sodomy laws is the same as anti-fraternization laws. It keeps them focused on the mission. It keeps them expendable.

Although, the example of gay lovers in the military is only one scenario in which people's actions maybe blinded by emotional attachment/sentiment. That said however, it seems to be the same argument for why relatives aren't always allowed to fight together, sometimes people of the same town aren't even allowed to fight in the same units, then there are fraternizing prohibitions, etc.

Establishing conduct rules is entirely different from flat out executing gays in the military at will. If the EP3 Orion story played out like you suspect, then there would really be two crimes occurring; the relationship among the crew (this would probably be the minor crime of the two- and one IMHO not worthy of an execution), with the greater crime being the act of landing the plane instead of putting it into the sea.

In any case, I think the argument against gays in the military is just a weak argument. It is eerily similar to the argument against having females in combat roles in the military.

With females in the military, there are countries out there who have had women in front line positions under the belief that when properly trained, women are actually better fighters (the Israelis still follow this mindset to-date). There are two reasons why the United States rejected that idea; the first because it is more politically damaging when females die in combat, the second being the idea that a female soldier could have a relationship with a male soldier, and thus create the emotional/attachment problem you describe.

Yet we have women in the military today. I don't think I am qualified to say whether or not its working, but I haven't heard about any major agenda to try to reverse the practice. If women can exist in a combat environment where they are overwhelmingly surrounded by straight guys (increasing the odds of a relationship starting), then surely gays could be in the military similarly.

But that's just my 2¢

[muhmuh]

Fick deine mutter. :roll: Ich gebe nicht einen schei über ihre anglo lügen.

hm the second half doesnt make any sense which in a way is somewhat more offensive than the content

either way im not really sure what that reaction of yours is all about... i burst out laughing every time i come across that video (although its missing the best bit "oh! german! im sorry i thought there was something wrong with you")

ill be the first to admit that hondas sense of humour is severely lacking which somewhat limits his entitlement to make fun of germans (not that were world renowned for ours but still)
then again hes american so the humour disability is genetic which im afraid in the current social climate is not acceptable grounds for giving him stick or insulting his mother

maybe if were lucky at some point hell figure out the proper european way of making fun of other nationalities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYFxhMOe41k&fmt=18