John Dean on why Republicans must be stopped

[thx1138]

http://writ.news.findlaw.com:80/dean/20081031.html

[NYBURBS]

You know like so many other narrow minded articles, this piece attempts to draw bright yellow lines where none exist. Both parties have a history of abuse, and certainly neither should be excused for it.

Wilson (a Democrat) had a post master general during WWI that abused the hell out of the federal power in order to silence those opposed to the war. Then of course we have FDR (the undisputed King of Democrats) and the internment of American citizens who happened to be Japanese. Of course there was also the suspension of Habeas Corpus in Hawaii, and military trials of American Citizens during WWII. Yet how quickly we forget these abuses and assume that a Democratic President will not violate our rights.

I am no fan or proponent of what the neo-cons and Bush have perpetrated in regard to our civil liberties. Nor do I forget that Lincoln (A Republican) was the first to start down that road in a major way. Yet I think it is important that people not be blinded by this silly two party rivalry in such a manner as to lose the perspective of history.

[thx1138]

Ok, then Burbs..vote for McCain and the status quo. The rest of us can give up hope for meaningful change.

[chefmike]

You know like so many other narrow minded articles, this piece attempts to draw bright yellow lines where none exist. Both parties have a history of abuse, and certainly neither should be excused for it.

Wilson (a Democrat) had a post master general during WWI that abused the hell out of the federal power in order to silence those opposed to the war. Then of course we have FDR (the undisputed King of Democrats) and the internment of American citizens who happened to be Japanese. Of course there was also the suspension of Habeas Corpus in Hawaii, and military trials of American Citizens during WWII. Yet how quickly we forget these abuses and assume that a Democratic President will not violate our rights.

I am no fan or proponent of what the neo-cons and Bush have perpetrated in regard to our civil liberties. Nor do I forget that Lincoln (A Republican) was the first to start down that road in a major way. Yet I think it is important that people not be blinded by this silly two party rivalry in such a manner as to lose the perspective of history.

Comrade Burbs, I hope we're not going to be forced to round you up and send you to re-education camp when comrade Obama is elected...make it easy on yourself and behave, comrade Burbs.

[Oli]

Comrade Burbs, I hope we're not going to be forced to round you up and send you to re-education camp when comrade Obama is elected...make it easy on yourself and behave, comrade Burbs.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PYR/PP30688~Che-Guevara-Posters.jpg

[Cuchulain]

Great Che poster, Oli. I didn't have that one. Thanks!

[NYBURBS]

Ok, then Burbs..vote for McCain and the status quo. The rest of us can give up hope for meaningful change.

Ya because that's what I said in my post :roll: Reading is fundamental you know; I simply pointed out the hypocrisy in that article.

To Chef: LOL, yea not to worry. I have my tin foil hat and log cabin in the woods all ready to go :wink:

[Cuchulain]

You know like so many other narrow minded articles, this piece attempts to draw bright yellow lines where none exist. Both parties have a history of abuse, and certainly neither should be excused for it.

Wilson (a Democrat) had a post master general during WWI that abused the hell out of the federal power in order to silence those opposed to the war. Then of course we have FDR (the undisputed King of Democrats) and the internment of American citizens who happened to be Japanese. Of course there was also the suspension of Habeas Corpus in Hawaii, and military trials of American Citizens during WWII. Yet how quickly we forget these abuses and assume that a Democratic President will not violate our rights.

I am no fan or proponent of what the neo-cons and Bush have perpetrated in regard to our civil liberties. Nor do I forget that Lincoln (A Republican) was the first to start down that road in a major way. Yet I think it is important that people not be blinded by this silly two party rivalry in such a manner as to lose the perspective of history.

You bring up some of the ugliest moments in US history, BURBS. But why stop at Lincoln? We can go right back to our first conservative President, John Adams, who signed the abominable Alien and Sedition Acts. Not to cast offal at ol' John, I loved him in '1776' :) . Seriously though, I enjoyed David McCullough's book and was glad HBO made it into a mini series. He was a pretty good egg, aside from the Acts.

But let's look at recent history. Nixon and Watergate, Reagan and Iran Contra and the brutal list of Bush/Cheney crimes. Has anything in our history compared to lieing us into a war, illegal wiretapping ( I'm sure J. Edgar H. would have approved), GITMO, torture, rendition, signing statements, the politicization of every dept of the federal govt (including the firing of DOJ attorneys for refusing to play ball with Karl Rove, and the censorship of EPA reports), wild claims of executive privilige, Cheney's "I'm part of the Legislative branch, no wait, I'm part of the Executive branch", secrecy of a level that even Nixon never dreamed, a philosophy of corporate interests first and fuck the little guy and who knows what else that we don't even know about yet.

There are indeed "bright yellow lines" and these thugs have gone way over them. Getting a blowjob in the Oval Office just doesn't compare. The extreme right wing of the republican party can never be allowed to grab power again. History must remember them as the criminals they are.

Unfortunately, we've got a short memory and most people aren't aware of the extent of the Bush/Cheney/Republican crimes. The Dems probably won't get 60 seats in the Senate and the remaining Repubs will spend the next two years filibustering their black little hearts out and rightwing loons on talk radio and Fixed News will do everything and anything to smear Obama - if the election isn't stolen by Diebold and friends.

[NYBURBS]

You bring up some of the ugliest moments in US history, BURBS. But why stop at Lincoln? We can go right back to our first conservative President, John Adams, who signed the abominable Alien and Sedition Acts. Not to cast offal at ol' John, I loved him in '1776' :) . Seriously though, I enjoyed David McCullough's book and was glad HBO made it into a mini series. He was a pretty good egg, aside from the Acts.

But let's look at recent history. Nixon and Watergate, Reagan and Iran Contra and the brutal list of Bush/Cheney crimes. Has anything in our history compared to lieing us into a war, illegal wiretapping ( I'm sure J. Edgar H. would have approved), GITMO, torture, rendition, signing statements, the politicization of every dept of the federal govt (including the firing of DOJ attorneys for refusing to play ball with Karl Rove, and the censorship of EPA reports), wild claims of executive privilige, Cheney's "I'm part of the Legislative branch, no wait, I'm part of the Executive branch", secrecy of a level that even Nixon never dreamed, a philosophy of corporate interests first and fuck the little guy and who knows what else that we don't even know about yet.

There are indeed "bright yellow lines" and these thugs have gone way over them. Getting a blowjob in the Oval Office just doesn't compare. The extreme right wing of the republican party can never be allowed to grab power again. History must remember them as the criminals they are.

Unfortunately, we've got a short memory and most people aren't aware of the extent of the Bush/Cheney/Republican crimes. The Dems probably won't get 60 seats in the Senate and the remaining Repubs will spend the next two years filibustering their black little hearts out and rightwing loons on talk radio and Fixed News will do everything and anything to smear Obama - if the election isn't stolen by Diebold and friends.

Cheney is a neo-con and they are a disgusting bunch. There is no way around that, nor would I want to attempt to argue otherwise. You're right about the the Alien and Sedition Act, I thought about including that also but figured 1776 was a bit far back for my argument. Adams was a little too in love with the ideas of Monarchy but he wasn't a horrible president overall.

As for your other points about Gitmo, wiretapping, torture, etc, I personally would have advocated the impeachment and then subsequent indictment of Bush for these things. However, to pretend that they stem only from him would be to kid ourselves. Many a democrat (and republican) have voted to grant him powers he shouldn't have been granted, voted to allow Iraq to take place, and continue to vote to fund it. This is of course separate from the issue of his attempted usurpation of other powers he should not have.

I know there is a cancer within the republican party, I see it as those that would wish to control everyone and everything else through either their political or religious ideology. That does not mean there aren't republicans who have opposed all of these acts, nor does it minimize or excuse the past actions of democrat Presidents, whose acts against civil liberties were also extreme.

[Cuchulain]

Cheney is a neo-con and they are a disgusting bunch. There is no way around that, nor would I want to attempt to argue otherwise.


As for your other points about Gitmo, wiretapping, torture, etc, I personally would have advocated the impeachment and then subsequent indictment of Bush

:claps


to pretend that they stem only from him would be to kid ourselves

Hell no. Dubya isn't smart enough for that. I lay that bag of shit at the feet of Cheney and Addington.


Many a democrat (and republican) have voted to grant him powers he shouldn't have been granted, voted to allow Iraq to take place, and continue to vote to fund it.

Hell yeah. Dems have been a pretty spineless bunch these past eight years.


That does not mean there aren't republicans who have opposed all of these acts

Too few, too few.


nor does it minimize or excuse the past actions of democrat Presidents, whose acts against civil liberties were also extreme.

I was just trying to say that these clowns are the worst of the worst.