Gas Prices

[Porndog]

:shock: :evil: :( :!:

This has to end. I'm not looking forward to heating bills this winter.

[Chica]

think about us brits... its around $8 (quick calculation) for petrol :(

[GroobySteven]

Put the prices of gas up and use the tax to educate drivers on how to drive. Everywhere else in the world pays more for gas than the US whose citizens whinge everytime the price rises a little - which allows their politicians to go to war, purely to gain control of gas (and therefore their citizens).
If every 17 yr old didn´t seem to be driving a rice burner and used public transport, we´d be in a lot better shape.
seanchai

[joyboy123]

think about us brits... its around $8 (quick calculation) for petrol :(

At least you guys have cars that get some sort of gas mileage. The cars here get lousy gas mileage and people are addicted to driving gas guzzling SUVs. Things probably won't change until gas is over $5 a gallon.

[popperluv]

Shit! Gas was cheaper when Sadam Hussain was in power :!:

[Jack59]

But you don't understand. The big Oil companies had the biggest profits in their histories last year.

And 2005's profits will be even bigger.



btw you do realize that something like 50% of those prices is federal state and local taxes, don't you?

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

Put the prices of gas up and use the tax to educate drivers on how to drive. Everywhere else in the world pays more for gas than the US whose citizens whinge everytime the price rises a little - which allows their politicians to go to war, purely to gain control of gas (and therefore their citizens).
If every 17 yr old didn´t seem to be driving a rice burner and used public transport, we´d be in a lot better shape.
seanchai

no politician is going to war, nor are their kids...........................lol

the govt. has NO CONTROL over the oil industry, think about this for a second, they have the right to ask you to open your bag at a train station to check for bombs, to check your car when entering a garage to check for bombs, to facilitate you in a holding environment for weeks maybe even months depending on what country you previously lived in, but they can't control rising price of oil?!?

I know this country was created on the idea of freedom & opportunity but this is just going too far. The problem isn't the Saudi's primarily it's the public relations we have with many other countries that is killing us at the gas pump. Venezuela has been threatening to stop oil shipments to the U.S. and instead of fixing that public relation problem we let "Curious George" the monkey's father fly in & out of the Middle East strengthening his contacts so that his family will be financially secure for decades to come.

Also, yes it's true that European countries pay well over double what we pay for gas at the pump, but they woke up years ago and every time I go over there I'm usually running around in a diesel vehicle. The U.S. is the only insane place in the world that I know of that sells diesel fuel for the same price as premium gas. And in Germany BMW has just initiated powering a few of their vehicles off of Hydrogen. Not test cars for the next 20 years like the American companies do before they put it on a showroom, but actual you pay, you drive away with cars that can be refilled locally at a Hydrogen filling station.

Sad part is we can complain til the sun comes up. Once the price goes up like this it will never come down. Makes you really wanna smack some of those geniuses that voted the monkey back into office so his administration could focus on "gay marriages" rather than the rising costs of a necessity.

[tslvrnyc]

There's nothing wrong IMHO with going to war for oil, it's a resource we need in order to live. However, the war in Iraq was quite obviously not a war for oil - this is obvious every time we go to the pump.

Europeans who pay more money for fuel make me chuckle sometimes. They often act as if they drive fuel efficient cars for altruistic and not purely economic reasons. The cost of their fuel is not additional cost of the product itself, it's the taxes added to it by the government. I'm not knocking this practice as I think we should consider it ourselves in order to discourage the level of consumption, but don't be deluded into thinking that Europeans drive smaller cars because they love the environment so much.

[hillbilly]

it would be nice if individuals would excercise a little personal responsiblity.

we certainly don't have a good track record with accountability though. look how fat we are! we're gluttons for food and gas. pretty bad food at that!

[EdelweissFan]

There's nothing wrong IMHO with going to war for oil, it's a resource we need in order to live. However, the war in Iraq was quite obviously not a war for oil - this is obvious every time we go to the pump.


tslvrnyc, you are very naive. You are thinking like a patriotic person or a strategic thinker. Yes if say Bill Clinton or even Richard Nixon, went to war with a country like Iraq over oil, it would be to make sure the US had access to that country's oil.

Chimp George did go to war over oil -- but to turn the Iraq oil fields and industry over to his cronies, including VP Cheney's company, Halliburton. Cheney's company is the number 1 contractor earning billions in Iraq.

The goal of the war was not to give America Iraq's oil, it was to give the oil to the chimp's friends and cronies.

Chimp george is thrilled that gas is approaching $3 gallon and wants it to go higher, much higher, and that the oil companies are making record profits. Even though they don't even know what to do with all the money they are flooded with, chimp george just enacted a so called "energy bill" that give them yet more cash, free, just literally checks from the govt, like anyone's grandma on social security, except billions.

Read. Learn. Bush is on record years ago saying the price of gas needed to be much higher. He got exactly what he was after -- and you're paying for it at the pump.

[rick_932]

i was readin on the AP site where oil in iraq is around 5 cents a gallon. 5 fuckin cents! and in all the neighboring countries, its a lil higher but still less than a dollar.

[hillbilly]

well even closer to home in Venezuela it's 7 cents.

[Quinn]

Like hillbilly said, it's all about personal responsibility. Unfortunately, politics today, including the issue of oil and gas pricing, is entirely about not being responsible for anything. That doesn't really change – no matter which party is in power.

Speaking as an investor analyst who specializes in Northeast Asian economic and security issues, I can tell you that the price of oil (and by extension the price of gas) will be much much higher five years from now than it is today. China’s demand for the stuff is the primary reason for the increase in prices, and their demand will triple within a very short timeframe. And that doesn't even take into account the effect that the continuing expansion of India's economy will eventually place upon oil prices. You haven’t seen anything yet.

-Quinn

[tslvrnyc]

There's nothing wrong IMHO with going to war for oil, it's a resource we need in order to live. However, the war in Iraq was quite obviously not a war for oil - this is obvious every time we go to the pump.


tslvrnyc, you are very naive. You are thinking like a patriotic person or a strategic thinker. Yes if say Bill Clinton or even Richard Nixon, went to war with a country like Iraq over oil, it would be to make sure the US had access to that country's oil.

Chimp George did go to war over oil -- but to turn the Iraq oil fields and industry over to his cronies, including VP Cheney's company, Halliburton. Cheney's company is the number 1 contractor earning billions in Iraq.

The goal of the war was not to give America Iraq's oil, it was to give the oil to the chimp's friends and cronies.

Chimp george is thrilled that gas is approaching $3 gallon and wants it to go higher, much higher, and that the oil companies are making record profits. Even though they don't even know what to do with all the money they are flooded with, chimp george just enacted a so called "energy bill" that give them yet more cash, free, just literally checks from the govt, like anyone's grandma on social security, except billions.

Read. Learn. Bush is on record years ago saying the price of gas needed to be much higher. He got exactly what he was after -- and you're paying for it at the pump.

I didn't mention anything about Halliburton - but it's clear that no one 'stole' Iraq's oil, and that the majority of Halliburton's contracts for the reconstruction of Iraq have nothing to do with oil. Yes, it's obvious that Cheney was looking to help his buddies get rich. However, my post was attempting to refute the "no blood for oil" position, that is that a war for oil is somehow wrong.

Let's face it, all wars have always been about money or a valuable resource. Oil is a resource which we are completely dependent upon. If tomorrow there were no oil, most of the population of the world would die.

The Iraq war was stupid for a number of reasons, but to call it a "war for oil" is a statement that is not grounded in fact.

[Buzz]

There was a good article in the NY Times magazine last weekend about Peak Oil. If you haven't heard of that, it's best to get informed.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/08/18/magazine/21cover.large.jpg

THE BREAKING POINT
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/magazine/21OIL.html

A good film to see is THE END OF SUBURBIA, Oil Collapse And The End of The American Dream.
http://www.endofsuburbia.com/

Bush Sr. said "The American way of life is not negotiable". But it seems to me that as energy costs increase dramatically, surburban sprawl will turn out to have been a poor choice as a way of life. And if it's not negotiable, who is going to pay the price?

[tsluver247]

Think about it $3/gallon for gas is close to water = $4/gallon (Evian). Think about Starbuck's coffee by the gallon $30/gallon? I never understand why oil being a limited resources was usually cheaper then most unlimited resources that can be turned into liquids.

My theory on oil prices: Operation Iraqi Libeation speaks for itself. Bush said in a speech to our nation that Iraq should not attempt to burn their oil fields, since it would hurt their nation's interests. Halliburton, Cheney's old company, is in control of rebuilding Iraq's oil fields. Iraq has not produced the same oil output since the war started. Bush has friends in the business and has many Saudi friends. Bush owned Arbusto/Harken Energy, Cheney was CEO of Halliburton, Condoleezza Rice sat on Chevron's board of directors, and Gale Norton (Interior Secretary) was national chairwoman of the Coalition of Republican Environmental Advocates, a group funded by BP Amoco. Bush has many oil friends in the business that can cut their supplies and drive up oil prices. Don't forget that Kenneth Lay was invited to talk about Bush's Energy Strategy when he first took office. Their administration has held their minutes and attendees of that meeting confidential (national security reasons), while 9/11 had public hearings. Raising oil prices helped pass his energy bill that will supply oil company money for exploring for oil, while they are at record profits and avoid U.S. taxes because of their offshore status. Raising oil prices may help drive his desire to start drilling in Alaska. Thinking about it: why do you think oil prices have skyrocketed lately? Is it coincidence that he wanted to pass his energy bill, which he said will help relieve oil prices - though experts disagreed? Is it coincidence that oil prices have continued to raise while we still have control of Iraq's oil fields and anti-war demostrations have risen and public opinion about the Iraq War have declined? Is it coincidence that Iraq is near a Constitution that will declare their freedom? Do you think Exxon can pass some of their $8 billion dollars in 3 months to help its consumers?

Profits last year:
Exxon = $25 billion
BP Amoco = $17 billion
Chevron = $13 billion
Conoco Phillips = $8 billion

I would estimate profits of Royal Dutch/Shell at around $15 billion.

Do you really think that they are searching for oil?

Where is all the money from oil companies going for political interests? (http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=E01&cycle=2006) 86% Republicans!

During the Bush-Kerry elections, Bush received $2,605,575, while Kerry received only $300,110. (http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.asp?Ind=E01&Cycle=2004&recipdetail=A&Mem=N&sortorder=U)

Money in Politics Backgrounder on the Energy Industry (http://www.opensecrets.org/pressreleases/energybriefing.htm)

That's just my 2 cents on the topic. :wink:

[ann_nonymous]

I was thinking the same as Quinn...with the high demand in asia right now and India...we havent seen anything yet...Also China has been buying up all commodities around the world...until enough soldiers and civilians complained about lack of armor...we were sending all the metal we could send to them...now there is a stoppage for armor but that is the only reason why...trust me China is going to be the biggest superpower in the world soon....thanks to Clinton....bush's and other leaders around the world....they do not know what kind of fiend they are breeding but beware....

[twowaybro]

My man Buzz is just about on point. If u all r not familiar with the phenomenon thats come 2 b known as "Peak Oil" then its high time u get informed. This "crisis" is gonna change life as we've come 2 know it well n2 the 4seeable future. In short we have gone through about half of the worlds estimated oil and natural gas reserves and hence have reached the "peak" of global production. The age of "cheap oil" is just about over. We've reached the point where we will never be able to extract enough oil 2 meet ever increasing world demand and the impact of this will wreack havoc on the American economy and way of life. If u r really serious about understanding whats driving these high gas prices the following sites r an excellent place to start.

www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

and

www.fromthewilderness.com

lol...just purchased me a nice moutain bike...time 2 get used 2 riding again... 8) 8)

[thanos]

Like hillbilly said, it's all about personal responsibility. Unfortunately, politics today, including the issue of oil and gas pricing, is entirely about not being responsible for anything. That doesn't really change – no matter which party is in power.

Speaking as an investor analyst who specializes in Northeast Asian economic and security issues, I can tell you that the price of oil (and by extension the price of gas) will be much much higher five years from now than it is today. China’s demand for the stuff is the primary reason for the increase in prices, and their demand will triple within a very short timeframe. And that doesn't even take into account the effect that the continuing expansion of India's economy will eventually place upon oil prices. You haven’t seen anything yet.

-Quinn
:claps :claps :claps

This is an excellent post. 60 minutes (the news magazine on CBS) had a very informative report on China's increasing demand for black gold.

[Vicki Richter]

I certainly hope all this doesn't make people masterbate less. That would be a real travesty for the adult industry. Ideally this would result in people staying home more and touching themselves to Internet porn.

Personally, I think the hybrids are extremely ugly cars. If they made them look normal, maybe more people would buy them. Bummer that I won't have any grand children to gloat to about driving a car with 400h/p back in the day.

Good thing most of the third world countries can only afford mopeds. If you've never been to Taiwan or Thailand, you've never seen a family of five on a scooter.

V

[lucx]

There's nothing wrong IMHO with going to war for oil, it's a resource we need in order to live. However, the war in Iraq was quite obviously not a war for oil - this is obvious every time we go to the pump.

Europeans who pay more money for fuel make me chuckle sometimes. They often act as if they drive fuel efficient cars for altruistic and not purely economic reasons. The cost of their fuel is not additional cost of the product itself, it's the taxes added to it by the government. I'm not knocking this practice as I think we should consider it ourselves in order to discourage the level of consumption, but don't be deluded into thinking that Europeans drive smaller cars because they love the environment so much.

Well... it's true... we dont drive smaller cars for enviromental love....

But at least government (who is, by the way, becoming too much like the US) makes us leave the car at home 2 days a week during the autumn and during the spring to prevent too much pollution during days who are not good for normal dispersion of pollution..

[NickTheQuick]

...

[EdelweissFan]

Those of you who mentioned peak oil and shortages are correct about the long term -- yes rising demand in Asia and reduced production will drive the price up.

But even the guy who proposed peak oil says were are not there yet. Right now the price, therefore, is driven up by speculation about what may happen in the future, not a shortage now.

And who do you think is driving the speculation and withholding oil stocks to keep the price up? Who benefits?

As for Halliburton, Cheney's company, tslvrny you are right, it is not, strictly speaking, an oil company. It does not drill or refine. It is an oil service company and military service company. It builds oil facilities and military facilities.

But it is still benefiting more than anyone in Iraq. US bombs the Iraqi military bases at the start of the war -- Halliburton gets a contract to rebuild as a US base. Terrorists blow up an oil pipeline -- Halliburton gets a contract to rebuilt. The more destruction and construction, the better.

Never in American history has anything like this happened -- the VP's company has gotten $9 billion in contracts steered there by the VP himself (you don't think the boy king makes decisions do you? He's too busy riding his bicycle).

[twowaybro]

Good thing most of the third world countries can only afford mopeds. If you've never been to Taiwan or Thailand, you've never seen a family of five on a scooter.

Dont worry. U will c the same reality here soon in the good ole USA and the problem is we r n no way prepared 2 deal with. This country has the fattest, most out-of-shape, most spoiled population on the planet. And as reliable sources of energy become more and more scarce ownership of a moped will b seen by some as a luxury.


But even the guy who proposed peak oil says were are not there yet. Right now the price, therefore, is driven up by speculation about what may happen in the future, not a shortage now.

There is no doubt that the oil companies r maximizing profits right now but in the process they r also creating a situation of "demand destruction." And as a nation what would be better, to lower gas prices and increase consumption and thereby expedite the arrival of "peak" or keep them high and gradually wean the population off the oil nipple and prepare for life in a post "cheap oil" world. Whether we r @ peak now, as some believe, or just a few years away the hard reality is the same. A depressed economy, high unemployment, increased food, housing, clothing and transportation costs, ever escalating resource "wars"(and the highly possible re-imposition of a military draft) etc. The best course of action right now imo is PREPARATION. To borrow from someone well versed on the subject:

1. Get out of debt
2. Get in physical shape
3. Buy a sturdy mountain bike w/ a couple of spare tires.
4. If u have the resources consider relocation to areas of the country that r more "sustainable" and less oil dependent.

[Vicki Richter]

You can worry yourself sick about this stuff. I predict this will go down when I'm fairly old if it even happens in my lifetime. If I pay $10 a gallon for gas, so be it. Doom and gloom will only take people so far in life. I do believe that alternative energy sources are already viable and available. If I could have my cake and eat it too, I would be getting rich off of oil while still having a good fallback plan which is exactly what GW and friends may be doing. Can't fault the guy for following the American way.

I mean come on, we also have global warming and the melting of the icecaps to worry about. Nobody is saying it, but the earth can't sustain an unlimited amount of people. Those families having 10 kids or whatever are hopefully going to be a thing of the past. I'd like to see people have to get a license to breed.

[UckedFup]

I'm just glad I stopped trying to act like a kid and bought a fuel efficient vehicle instead of a sports car. About $40 a month now to go 40 miles to work every day.

Where fuel prices really hurt is in the lower middle class. Many of those folks bought into (initially) low interest loans that adjust at a variable rate a percent or two every year or two before capping; they have a new house, have a child, then the double whammy of fuel costs and interest rates increasing drastically. My subdivision has more than a few houses vacated by defaults; folks that got caught without a plan.

I do what I can. During the winter I conserve as much heat as possible; cuddling feels better than gas heat anyways. I have a fuel efficient car.

Highest in my area has been $2.67; somewhat lucky.

But, agreed. There are dozens of other things just as worrisome in this world so it doesn't make sense to let it control you. Understand it's there and be smart about it.

[Quinn]

Whether you’re talking about a Parliamentary Democracy (England, etc.) or a Presidential Democracy (U.S. and France), you are ultimately talking about a system that is adept at supplying short-term solutions to short-term problems. Democracy as a system is entirely unsuited to tackling long-term issues. This is generally because tackling any long-term problem (global warming, shortage of fossil fuels, etc.) requires short-term sacrifices, which, in turn, usually results in elected officials being ushered out of office. The end result is a system that rewards anything perpetuating the status quo and punishes anything that challenges it. Why do you think the oil lobby has been so successful in limiting government funded research into energy alternatives?

So, what does all of this add up to? If you know that the cost of oil is going to climb precipitously over the next few years, then there are ways to aggressively capitalize on this trend. If you are worried about America’s comically inept immigration policies, then there are ways to capitalize on this, too. Global warming and the population bomb offer similar opportunities. I’m not saying you shouldn’t care about any of this, but if those elected to represent you won’t do anything about these issues – other than pay occasional lip service to them – then you should at least find a way to benefit from it all. Let me supply you with an example of how this might work:

1. Globally, oil production is at or near maximum output and it won’t be increasing anytime soon.

2. Massive increases in the supply of oil are required to fuel the expansion of China’s economy. Since that increased supply is not available, one can expect a massive increase in the price of oil over both the short and long-term.

3. The resulting increase in oil prices will cause pronounced inflationary pressure in the U.S. and many other economies.

4. Since a high rate of inflation is the single greatest threat to the future of any advanced industrialized economy, our perpetually inept Fed will be forced to continually raise interest rates in an attempt to contain the aforementioned inflationary pressure.

5. Both the American real estate and stock markets can be expected to stagnate as a result.

6. Smart investors will seek safe havens for their money. In my case this will mean investing in a number of overseas markets, including the German real estate market. Why? For decades the German real estate market was among the most expensive in Europe. However, during the latest housing boom in Western Europe and the U.S., the German real estate market remained stagnate as Germany’s perpetually outmoded corporations undertook restructuring – a process that hurt their economy in much the same way restructuring by U.S. companies caused a recession in the early nineties. Rapid German economic growth over the next decade will fuel an unprecedented housing boom in Germany while the rest of Europe sees paltry gains or outright decreases in housing valuations.

7. Use your incredible profits to buy more porn :D

-Quinn

[Ecstatic]

Quinn, that was one of the most cogent, concise, and insightful summaries of the present economic situation that I've read. It's also well worth noting that Europe leads the US in wind power production by seven times (35,000 megawatts to the US's 7,000); Denmark is producing 20% of its power by wind and Germany is building the large wind turbine in the world, standing 600 feet tall (4x the height of the Statue of Liberty) with blades 200 feet long, which will generate 5 megawatts. Alternative technology is here, though it needs to be developed and it needs deep investment, but as you say regarding short-term solutions to short-term problems, we'll keep dodging the issue. So much for Representative Democracy.

[Quinn]

Now you have done it, Ecstatic. How in the hell can I not go see the worlds largest wind turbine??? Seriously, when it is completed, I 'll have to see the thing in person. They'll probably make as much money from tourism as they do from power generation. Interesting stats about Denmark.

-Quinn

[hondarobot]

You can worry yourself sick about this stuff. I predict this will go down when I'm fairly old if it even happens in my lifetime. If I pay $10 a gallon for gas, so be it. Doom and gloom will only take people so far in life. I do believe that alternative energy sources are already viable and available. If I could have my cake and eat it too, I would be getting rich off of oil while still having a good fallback plan which is exactly what GW and friends may be doing. Can't fault the guy for following the American way.

I mean come on, we also have global warming and the melting of the icecaps to worry about. Nobody is saying it, but the earth can't sustain an unlimited amount of people. Those families having 10 kids or whatever are hopefully going to be a thing of the past. I'd like to see people have to get a license to breed.

Wow. The majority of people can't afford $10/gallon for gas. Which means they can't get to work, and then the whole party for the upper class begins to fall apart because they don't have lackeys showing up to do their bidding.

GW and palls are riding this thing out, scorched earth. They have their back-up plans in place, but why would anyone other than someone within their inner circle think that it's a good thing?

American Dream? It's the same old narrow minded path petty jerks have made all through history.

License to breed. . .I don't really have anything else to say about this post.

Wow.

[twowaybro]

You can worry yourself sick about this stuff. I predict this will go down when I'm fairly old if it even happens in my lifetime. If I pay $10 a gallon for gas, so be it.

Thats a prediction that i wouldnt bet on. Assuming u live another thirty years, even the most optimistic estimates state that by that point we will b well along the downslope of the global oil production bell curve. And if/when gas reaches $10 a gallon u had better have a new profession 4 there wont b many with the time, inclination, or resources 2 afford such trivial yet fun pursuits as internet porn/"adult" entertainment. I dont think many fully understand the tie of energy and economy. I do agree that worrying about these issues is futile and does nothing to ameliorate the situation. One cannot stop winter from coming all one can do is prepare. The same can b said 4 the winter of "cheap oil". It's upon us now and only the wise, prudent and the prepared will b able 2 navigate through it with the least amount of pain and suffering. Now is not the time 2 acquire debt and b spendthrift in the pursuit of frivolous thrills but rather of downsizing one's lifestyle, trimming one's budget, getting physically and financially fit and acquiring those rudimentary skills that sustain life in hard times. Plan 4 the worst and hope 4 the best.

[Vicki Richter]

What the hell does physically fit have to do with anything? You really think it's going to get so bad that people ride bikes all over?

One could argue if the enconomy is going to blow up now is the time to have fun and enjoy life.

I am surprised that not more people are stockpiling gas if they really believe this stuff. If I thought gas was going to go up to $10/gallon in the next 5 years, I would be foolish not to buy a few 10,000 gallon containers and fill them with $2.50 gas. Nobody is doing this except for the same whacky doomsayers that thought Y2k was going to shut down the world. Remember the stockpiling bottled water in the garages?

[Trogdor]

What the hell does physically fit have to do with anything? You really think it's going to get so bad that people ride bikes all over?

One could argue if the enconomy is going to blow up now is the time to have fun and enjoy life.

I am surprised that not more people are stockpiling gas if they really believe this stuff. If I thought gas was going to go up to $10/gallon in the next 5 years, I would be foolish not to buy a few 10,000 gallon containers and fill them with $2.50 gas. Nobody is doing this except for the same whacky doomsayers that thought Y2k was going to shut down the world. Remember the stockpiling bottled water in the garages?

My aunt was like that, going all nuts when it was going to happen. She even stockpiled the liquer cabinet. I asked her why, and she said, "So we can trade booze for food."

I told her, " you've been watching too many mel gibson rad warrior movies lately " :lol:

I still remember back as a kid in 1990 when $1.10 for gas for considered alot. :?

[Ecstatic]

I remember the original OPEC crisis of the early 70s when 70 cents was a lot! When I started driving, gas was commonly 30 cents/gallon in New England and maybe 20 cents/gallon in Texas.

At least until recently, in real dollars (that is, any prior dollar value converted to today's dollars), the early 80s were the most expensive, but we may be passing that mark now.

[Tadmirer]

Although none of us want to pay any more for gasoline or fuel oil than we do today,
if you look at current pricing/wages compared to 25 or
30 years ago, it really isn't so bad.

At $2.50/gallon, gasoline costs 10 times what I paid,
when I bought my first car in 1969.

Interestingly enough, a similar car now costs 10 times as much, and my current mortgage is about 10 times my 1970 rent.

Fortunately, I now earn more than 10 times what I earned then.
And that's probably true for most people.

Buy a fairly fuel efficient vehicle, be reasonable with the thermostat,
don't be blatantly wasteful and quit worrying about it.

[Fire231us]

Hard times are coming, and I understand what Vicky is saying (that didnt help China much with the One Child Policy, China might have less people than was first believed several years ago, but now the Chinese are spending 3 TIMES as much even with the conservation policies they have). - but I agree that we have to change somewhat. Whether if its the oil buddies of Bush (which, he cannot defend the border so boo to him) keeping all the money for themselfs (seriously- you mean to tell me that Oil gonna run out? Not Bloody Likely- its that we have no more refineries, and the Oil that haves very little sulfur, which alot of countries have in spades, cannot work with most american cars.) or we are reaching the peak... we still have things to hold on to and protect.

Diffrent folks want to say we are heading into the Post Modern Stone Age (if you have watched any early Japanese animation like Megazone 23 and Akira, or hell, even dark angel on Fox for examples) But I say its just a small correction. Just change the way the cars work or use other ways of getting energy. Its gonna be hard for like 5 years but if companies do care of getting new Energy, then those companies will become bigger than Oil...

Just a thought.

[switchnyc]

in the US, we pay farmers not to go things. Have them grow more corn. Ethinol! It could be the easiest migraton from gas. So why? I think you can find the answer when you track down the only ethinol lobbist in DC! You can ask the lobbiests and reps from OPEC, Exxon/Mobil, BP and the state of TX, where to find them.

[thanos]

Thanks to Hurricane Katrina, Americans could soon see $4 a Gallon.

[chefmike]

Looks like I might be using my scooter full-time, and to correct an earlier post...mopeds have pedals-not scooters....

[EdelweissFan]

A lot of people don't realize the shit storm we're in. Most gas comes to the cities not in trucks but pipelines. Most pipelines run through New Orleans and the gulf coast.

Pipelines are powered by electricity. Electricity is out in Louisiana, and can't be restored because of flooding, so the two biggest pipelines are out for the forseeable weeks.

Gas in Atlanta is now being sold at $5 / gal, and stations are running out of gas, and panic is setting in. Gas is already gone to $4 in many cities because of Katrina. Around New Orleans, it is going for $7/gal.

In Atlanta, news outlets are reporting, many stations are out of gas. Distributors are already rationing to stations. Panic buying is occurring in the southeast and mid Atlantic.

New York, DC and other east coast towns have 7-10 days worth of gas in storage depots, then it will basically run out, till the pipelines can somehow get running again.

Expect gas to be $4 tomorrow in NYC and $5-6 in NYC by Saturday.

[SexxxyJade]

I just went to the gas station and cars where lined up like Sat nite at club Shelter or sumthing...lol. It was like a live niteclub 4 real. I met sum new hotboys too, i didnt know they stayed around here. I think imma go back in a minute to find sum more..lol
They say gas is gonna go up to 3.45 its 2.99 there no...haaaaaaaaa

[Ecstatic]

I was thinking bad, but I wasn't thinking that bad. I was thinking maybe $4/gallon for a while. Your reasoning is sound, though. Don'tcha just luv your SUV now?!

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

I think alot of us have the problem of only listing the highest octane

87 octane in NYC right now can be found @ $2.79 (thats what I paid today) other places have 87 for $2.99

gas won't be $4 a gallon for 87 octane in NYC by Friday, Bush allowing the reserves to be tapped right now proves that..........

expect $4 a gallon around Xmas though, and thank the voters that based their decision solely on gay marriage for that, not any hurricane, tornado, tsunami, or war................

[GroobySteven]

$3.09 for supreme in Hawaii - expected to go up tomorrow.
Personally, I'm all for it. Stop the kids flying around in rice burners, encourage people to car pool, state/government should invest more in public transport.
Going to suck that the airlines prices will go up yet again!
seanchai

[Ecstatic]

Premium jumped to between $3.30 and $3.40/gallon in Mass. today.

[tsluver247]

I saw $3.45 for 87 oct. $3.65 for prem. in Chicago (#1 in the USA for gas prices). I expect some price gouching considering the cheapest I found in the suburbs (avoids a high Chicago Tax) was $2.85 for 87 oct. Most places were around $3.0X for the 87 oct.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

$3.09 for supreme in Hawaii - expected to go up tomorrow.
Personally, I'm all for it. Stop the kids flying around in rice burners, encourage people to car pool, state/government should invest more in public transport.
Going to suck that the airlines prices will go up yet again!
seanchai

As a former rice burner I wanna say fuck that bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kids pushing supercharged or turbocharged Honda Civis with DOHC Vtec engines are NOT THE REASON the for anything, you can fly in a rice car all day and still have more than enough gas for a week.

Blame the SUV owners driving their Expeditions. Escalade's, and Hummers daily needing $80 to come close to filling up a tank.

Hybrid & Hydrogen engines are here, companies like toyota & bmw will benefit from this drastically as they are the corporations with vehicles running on one or the other style mentioned..................
oops, forgot Honda, expect the rest of the import companies to follow suit in the next year, and expect to see Hybrid emblems on most vehicles within the next 5

[TomSelis]

This is the most intelligent thread I've seen on here in a long time.

I have to agree with you guys that talked about Peak Oil. I read something a few weeks ago saying it could happen as soon as November. I'm actually really happy with my little car now and my 30mpg.

The reason we're in Iraq is becoming more clear now. We need a puppet government in the middle east to give us a discount on oil. When peak oil hits, China might have it's eye on the middle east too. It'll be a land grab. The US is scared enough of China as it is.

It's going to get crazy over the next year.

[tsluver247]

China has guarantees to Iran's oil. (http://www.mehrnews.com/en/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=204006) Why do you think U.S. put Iran in it's axis of evil? They will not do anything since China will surely go to war with us if we invade Iran.

[Ecstatic]

Interesting, considering that the world is very close to peak oil production now and current estimates hold that we can maintain that production for maybe (maybe) 35 years. As someone posted the other day in another thread, triple the demand while production remains constant and you triple the price. Fortunately, I'll be 90 by the time the oil runs dry....

[Shining Star]

Releasing oil reserves is not going to have a huge affect on domestic gas prices for several reasons. First and most importantly the United States already suffered from aging refineries and too few. Eight of the 10 refineries in the Gulf Coast area from Texas to Mississipi are out of commission due to storm damage. Bush could twinkle his nose and have oil gush out of the ground and it still would have to be refined into petrol. Oil companies are not going to sign for loans of oil they cannot process at once into gasoline as the clock starts ticking on when it must be "repaid" from the date they take posession of the oil, not when it is refined.

Oil prices and subsequently gas prices are determined much more by world markets than anything a government can really do. Those that trade in oil for a living have analyzed and expected this release of oil and will price their bids accordingly.

Word is do not expect gasoline prices below $2.50/gallon agian if ever anytime soon. Personally am much more worried about home heating oil/natural gas prices than petrol for cars. Fall winter is fast coming and it is going to cost PLENTY to heat homes this winter. Weather you rent or own your own home, you will feel the effects. Now might be a good time to start knitting a few sweaters. *LOL*

[TomSelis]

China has guarantees to Iran's oil. (http://www.mehrnews.com/en/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=204006) Why do you think U.S. put Iran in it's axis of evil? They will not do anything since China will surely go to war with us if we invade Iran.

Exactly. China already has it's hand on some oil. That's why the US had to get it's hand on some oil too. Saudi Arabia isn't playing with the US anymore so, it was time to get a new bitch.

China is a scary country. Like Napoleon said, "When China wakes, it will shake the world." The world is starting to shake.

[tslvrnyc]

With the advent of anti-knock regulation systems in cars now, why would anyone buy high octane gas at the moment?

[Realgirls4me]

My faith in this place has been partially restored given all the intelligent responses in here over an issue that touches everyone of our lives. So much for the place being ghettosized. Very insightful, educational, and informative.


... I do have a problem with anyone who advocates going to war and killing people because it's "our" oil. I'm going to go over to kill that drug dealer who's got my coke ... See the problem ? Our continued dependence on fossil fuels will only lead to a dead end road one way or another by either draining the planet dry of it leaving the country up the river without a paddle, or choking (carbon dioxide) the planet to death. We MUST start spending the money into research into alternative fuels and sources, and now!

[switchnyc]

Regular: $3.50 in Jersey

More important, gas station close because they out of gas!

Why in Jersey should this be happening? We refine more gas then only to other states! [Please inert your on chemical joke here] I have notice that BP has been holding its prices while some other companies are using this disaster to boost prices. There are about 200 hundred oil tanks in Linden NJ only (if you haven't had the change of visitng lovely Linden, please Soparanos intro), did we use that up in five days? Plus coming home from work the flame was burning, which happens when they don't have talk room to store it.

I drive a SUV, so I guess I'm to blame but something smells rotten and it is not the refinery!

[EdelweissFan]

Look back over this thread. At the beginning of the thread, people were posting that gas was in the 2.69 range in NYC. Well, yesterday gas in Queens NY was generally 3.90 -- a jump of over $1 in a few days.

CNN reports gas is $5.99 -- ie basically 6.00 in Virginia.

Yesterday, Philly was reported to have 24-48 hours of gas in storage, and if the pipelines did not start pumping, they would run out.

In my earlier post, when gas was around 2.69, I predicted 4 by Friday (which pretty much happened) and 5-6 in NYC by this weekend. Well it's Saturday and I don't know what the price is because my local gas station is closed, with a sign saying "no more gas."

There are two east coast pipelines -- the Colonial Pipeline and the Plantation Pipeline. One ends in Philly or DC (not sure), the other in New Jersey, just across the river from NY, which then receives the fuel by barge from NJ terminals.

The southern one is pumping again, but the one that ends in NJ is only operating at 70% capacity. So gas will probably not go up to 5-6 here, right away, but if it continues to operate at 70%, gas will go that high in NYC soon, because 70% is not enough to supply the regions, plus make up for almost a week of no pipeline operation.

The business news is all about, "don't panic, there are no gasoline shortages." That's bullshit, they don't want people to panic buy, which will drive the price up more and lead to worse shortages.

But I filled my tank and bought winter home heating oil Wednesday, as soon as I heard the pipelines were out.

You have been warned!

[castabyss]

This is why I sold my car months ago......Good to live in NYC's public transportation system....

[chefmike]

I was using my scooter about 70% of the time, even in cold weather, as my ride to work is only about 12-15 mins...needless to say, I'm gonna tune it up and use it pretty much all of the time...I was at the gas station, putting in my weekly ONE GALLON...the lady in front of me had a for sale sign on her SUV, and was looking at my scooter with an almost lustful glance (or maybe she wanted me, who knows)...and then the cashier says "I guess you're feelin' like the smartest guy on the road today"...no, but I'm glad I bought this motherfucker...

[ropadi]

check it out

[partlycloudy]

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/9683/11241805716643he.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[partlycloudy]

http://www.gasbuddy.com/

[Vicki Richter]

Wow that is expensive. I was out of town all week. I filled up last it was $2.80 or something. I looked and it was $3.60 here or something. Pretty crazy. I do think $3.50 a gallon is a little unreasonable. The gas companies always price gouge people in times of crisis.

What do you think all those companies who just released all those 300-400 horse power cars are thinking right now. I think GM and Ford are typically regarded by consumers as gas inefficient while we think of foreign cars as efficient.

I get like 28mpg on the freeway in mine. It's hard to justify a crappy 4 cyl when you can have a V8 and get almost the same mpg.

[hwbs]

thank god 4 my v-tech,lol

[Vicki Richter]

What kind of mileage does your V-Tech get? If I could get a cool car that legitimately got 40mpg freeway and didn't look ridiculous, I would seriously consider getting something else.

[hwbs]

rated at 32 mpg hgway....and 225hp

[rick_932]

most of the gas stations in BR are out of gas. and the ones that do have gas have waiting lines about a mile long.

[hwbs]

they are considering lifting the state tax on gas for a temporary basis to help relieve the prices in connecticut....but it doesnt really help dealing with this price gouging situation.....there are many stations here boycotting selling gas until prices are brought back down....

[hwbs]

i just saw a huge drop from earlier in the day.....places that were charging 3.30-3.40 are now charging around 3.10......ohh those thieves

[Ecstatic]

What kind of mileage does your V-Tech get? If I could get a cool car that legitimately got 40mpg freeway and didn't look ridiculous, I would seriously consider getting something else.
Drove home from a 3-day weekend in NH today (I live in Mass), and for the first time since I bought my '99 VW wagon six years ago I decided to hold to the speed limit or even a tad under (63-65 mph). I got 32.5 mpg (normal--at my more usual 75 mph--is 29). It's a 1.8 liter turbo (same engine Audi used in their TT sports car that year): only a 4 banger, but plenty powerful and fast and able to tow 3000 lbs.

[Shining Star]

Not trying to be mean, but Americans have it pretty easy when it comes to petrol. Even adjusted for inflation today's gas prices are lower than during the 1970's oil crisis.

America imports close to 70% to 80% of it's oil, most of which is refined into petrol for cars that on average have worse or equal gas mileage than those produced in the 1970's or 1980's. Why does anyone need a huge "Hummer" to drive around town? Or any of the other huge gas drinking "light trucks"? Less than .5 percent of those trucks will ever see anything remotely looking like "off road".

Petrol prices are based upon supply and demand, and the United States is notorious for it's demand for petrol, hence the high prices. If the United States government announced SERIOUS measures to curb petrol consumption, prices would drop and the Saudis amoung others would be in deep trouble. Of course what remains of the "Big Three" make huge profits from selling gas guzzling trucks, so there would be an impact on that sector from any major fuel effiency effort. Considering how fragile GM and Ford are at the moment, doubt any politican wants that on their plate, but sooner or late the problem must be met head on. There simply isn't enough domestic oil, even if they drill all of Alaska to keep supplying current demand levels.

The other major problem as shown when Katrina ripped apart the Gulf coast, the United States has not maintained, nor built new oil infrastructure in over 30 years. No new major pipelines, refineries, nothing. Close to 80 percent of America's refineries are in gulf, along with a major portion of oil wells, natural gas production, and so on. This as we have seen spells major trouble if or when a disaster hits that area. Everyone wants petrol, but no none wants a refinery or pipeline on their patch. After driving through New Jersey this weekend, can't say I blame them on the refinery bit. Hint: set the air conditioning to recirculate the air inside the car, not to bring in "fresh" air from the outside.

Finally the United States has something like 30 or more different types of petrol blended for targeted states to meet their special emission requirements. This drives up the cost of petrol, and was the reason Bush suspended those rules for awhile to allow petrol to flow where needed regardless of how it is made. This also allowed petrol from Europe, which under normal circumstances would never set foot in the United States, to arrive on it's shores. These special petrol blends drive up prices.

Shinging Star

[micky225]

http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/

The Answer ?

[ezed]

rated at 32 mpg hgway....and 225hp
Where the hell did you get that avatar, that is hilarious.

[hwbs]

ancient chineese secret.....aka...i had someone else do it,lol

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

Gas is $2.87 in NY today.........................
ala Hillary Clinton venting
viva la dyke

[Ecstatic]

So how much extra profit was earned in the past two weeks by Big Oil? That's what I want to know.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

had to be a billion easy

[Ecstatic]

Yeah--but no gouging going on....

[mtbazz]

right...its pretty obscene...

last qaurter each oil company made 15-30+ BILLION dollars in profit...thats how much they made after the recap their losses for wages, equip. exploration etc...

sad thing is they will probably contribute to putting our country into a recession, cause people who depend on driving for their livelihood to lose thier jobs, etc..and they just couldnt give a shit about any of that..

and than there is the rebuilding of new orleans, a city in a bowl below sea level...

get ready people...I see some very hard times ahead for us all...

[twowaybro]

Get use 2 high energy costs people...they r not going anywhere. We in this country have been spoiled 2 "cheap oil & gas" 4 so long that we r totally unprepared 4 this new reality. A scaled down economy, less cars on the street, less polution and hence cleaner air and water, and a more localized lifestyle with functional/sustainable communities will not b a bad thing dont u think. America has been a "rogue state" when it comes 2 energy 4 so long, but the day of reckoning is upon us. Life as we know it is about 2 change but in the long run this will be 4 the better. Adjust and prepare.

[Quinn]

Think of the 1st Gulf War, when gas prices went up nearly 50%. The oil flow from Kuwait and Iraq was restricted, so why shouldn't gas prices have gone up? Sounds good and well, until you do some research and find out that only roughly 2% of America's oil came from this area at that time (Japan and Western Europe were the primary consumers of said oil). What does this mean? You guessed it – we should have seen only a very marginal increase in the price of gas here in the United States, not the large increase we did experience.

We were gouged then, and the government did nothing about it. We are being gouged now, and, once again, the government will do nothing about it. This time, however, we also have the added pressure of speculators driving the price of oil up (and by extension gas, etc.) because they believe prices will ge even higher in the future – and they are right. If you are looking for either political party to enact policies to protect you from this type of gouging, do not hold your breath.

-Quinn

[twowaybro]

Quinn, i agree that price gouging is occurring and the oil companies r c-ing ridiculous profits but dont rule out the possibility that "Peak Oil" is real and if so, high energy costs will become fixed/permanent forcing lifestyle change which is what i believe the "elites" want anyway as well as population reduction.

[Quinn]

dont rule out the possibility that "Peak Oil" is real and if so, high energy costs will become fixed/permanent forcing lifestyle change which is what i believe the "elites" want anyway as well as population reduction.

I couldn't agree more and have previously commented to that effect. Increased Chinese demand has genuinely necessitated higher prices and will drive them far higher in the future, particularly given that there are no new major oil fields coming on line. Still, count on the oil companies to exaggerate the impact of this and other effects (India, etc.) in order to allow for continued gouging. I also agree with your opinion of "elite" interests as they relate to gas pricing.

-Quinn

[Vicki Richter]

You guys are the same people who write the "sell stock buy gold" newsletters that I get for spam mail all the time huh? Yes everyone get a few guns, a few thousand gallons of bottled water, and about a thousand cans of chicken noodle soup. They raised gas prices 50 cents. Armageddon must be upon us.

[tubgirl]

gas prices here went down 35 cents in the last two weeks...

[Quinn]

You guys are the same people who write the "sell stock buy gold" newsletters that I get for spam mail all the time huh? Yes everyone get a few guns, a few thousand gallons of bottled water, and about a thousand cans of chicken noodle soup. They raised gas prices 50 cents. Armageddon must be upon us.

Vicki,

With all due respect to your melodramatic response, you haven't the slightest hint of a clue. As an investor/analyst who specializes in this exact issue – and has grown quite rich off of making accurate predictions about macroeconomic trends – I do. Higher oil prices always hurt the domestic economy (usually exerting the most pressure upon the working man/woman) of any country importing a large volume of oil. Educate yourself, then respond.

-Quinn

[tslvrnyc]

You guys are the same people who write the "sell stock buy gold" newsletters that I get for spam mail all the time huh? Yes everyone get a few guns, a few thousand gallons of bottled water, and about a thousand cans of chicken noodle soup. They raised gas prices 50 cents. Armageddon must be upon us.
How much money do you pay for other insurance you'll never use? Is it really such a bad idea to be prepared for a disaster? The government has said that a terrorist nuclear attack is IMMINENT. Note the choice of words, they didn't say it is possible, they said it is a certainty. How well do you think the federal government could restore order and services in the wake of a nuclear detonation in a major city?

I keep an AK-47 and 2000 rounds of ammo along with water and food. If If I never need to use this, oh well - at least I was prepared. I have theft insurance on my car as well, I've never used that. Should I discontinue it?

[chefmike]

on the same subject...

[seaman]

elitists want population reduction? Huh? Then why are they pro-life and anti-sex education?

[mixedprettyboy]

Shit, if gas prices keep going up then nobody's gonna have any money to see tranny escorts.

Ain't their prices going up too? I guess they think all tricks are made of money. They don't care if gas prices go up because they're the ones laughing all the way to the bank. You guys are fools.

[chefmike]

Shit, if gas prices keep going up then nobody's gonna have any money to see tranny escorts.

Ain't their prices going up too? I guess they think all tricks are made of money. They don't care if gas prices go up because they're the ones laughing all the way to the bank. You guys are fools.hhmmm...I think sissyboy, uh excuse me, I meant prettyboy...well, he might be conflicted re his, em, preferences...maybe you ought to have a long talk with your "pretty" self...because I don't think I'm the only person here who finds you tiresome...pretty...sissy...or whatever...

[mixedprettyboy]

lmao at this trick

[NickTheQuick]

...

[Vicki Richter]

Vicki,

With all due respect to your melodramatic response, you haven't the slightest hint of a clue. As an investor/analyst who specializes in this exact issue – and has grown quite rich off of making accurate predictions about macroeconomic trends – I do. Higher oil prices always hurt the domestic economy (usually exerting the most pressure upon the working man/woman) of any country importing a large volume of oil. Educate yourself, then respond.

-Quinn

Actually, I think most people would think that you are being melodramatic. I am not saying it is good for the economy, but lets be real now. Some of you guys sound like the Y2k fruitcakes who predicted anarchy and the end of the world.

This has nothing to do with education. It has to do with rationalization. We are still below where we should be from an inflation based oil price perspective even with gas over $3.00. We are still below practically every other country in the world for gas prices. Yes we have more urban sprawl. But in some ways higher oil prices are a good thing. How? It will encourage people to buy electic or hybrid cars. Effect? Reduced use of clunkers. Lower emmissions. Reduced global warming. Less dependence on foreign countries. High R&D spending on improving these technologies. Lower cost hence making these technologies mainstream.

I keep talking cause and effect and it's like you don't get the concept. Humans have this little survival instinct. Like Y2k the world isn't going to end, our country isn't going to be fucked because of urban sprawl. By the time gas runs out I have every confidence that there will be alternate technologies available and they will be universally adopted. 50 years is a long time. It's easy to paint that scary picture and capitalize on fear of the ignorant. It isn't easy to convince people who are scared that they probably shouldn't be. Honestly, it's probably better that they are. It is much easier to control sheep than people. Baaaaaaaaa.

As far as nuclear terrorists, I don't think anyone can rule that out. I am sure they would love to. But then, I can't really say that being in Iraq or creating another stronghold in the middle east is a bad thing for us. What's done is done. And it is what it is at this point.

Anyway, get educated and talk to me.

~V~

[hondarobot]

That's all very interesting, but you're still goofy.

8)

[Quinn]

Educate yourself, then respond.


Vicki,

I can see the abovementioned suggestion was a waste of time. Still, you might want to try something in the way of economics to get a better understanding (education) of just how higher gas prices affect the economy. As for rationalization, you are the one citing Y2K and other completely extraneous issues in an effort to support a fallacious argument.

-Quinn

[Eric420]

christ on a cross... I am so glad I just moved 18 miles closer to work. cali gas is pricey.

[GroobySteven]

What sort of cross?
seanchai

[Eric420]

Let's go with a Dutch windmill style of cross... to make things interesting. :D


What sort of cross?
seanchai

[Ecstatic]

But in some ways higher oil prices are a good thing. How? It will encourage people to buy electic or hybrid cars. Effect? Reduced use of clunkers. Lower emmissions. Reduced global warming. Less dependence on foreign countries. High R&D spending on improving these technologies. Lower cost hence making these technologies mainstream.
Good point. From an engineering viewpoint, there have been tremendous advances in powertrain technology over the past quarter century. However, given the American market's endless thirst for bigger, faster, and more powerful, most of these advances have gone into performance, not efficiency. Engines today generate tremendous power (so that you can drive a nearly 3 ton (5724 pound) SUV--the Cayenne--from 0 to 100 kph/62 mph in just 5.6 seconds, with a top speed of 165 mph. Who needs that kind of power? And more to the point, think of applying that level of powertrain engineering to efficiency, not performance.

Car and Driver writes: "Is it fast? Is Wiedeking hard to spell? The vehicle's quickness and speed (we recorded 0 to 60 mph in 5.0 seconds and a quarter-mile pass in 13.5 seconds) are stunning, but here numbers fail us; it's not the velocity per se but the giddy sensation of enormous mass being manhandled by oceanic force, like a tugboat thrown on the beach by a tsunami. The Cayenne reactor is a twin-turbo, quad-cam 4.5-liter V-8 with dry-sump and other fancy plumbing to keep it oily and cool in extreme off-roading. Thanks to its VarioCam intake-valve timing, the motor produces peak torque of 457 pound-feet between 2250 and 4750 rpm and a nice fat 450 horsepower at 6000 rpm."

[Vicki Richter]

Those number are pretty impressive. My car did about the same quarter mile time stock. A 2000 Corvette with a couple mods can get 28mpg highway though.

[Ecstatic]

And it doesn't weight 3 tons, either! And is a hell of a lot sexier, imho.

[stickpussygalore]

Quinn is essentially, and predominantly, accurate in his analyses.

Vicki, on the other hand, is talking "pretzel logic" (and that's being VERY altruistic).

[Vicki Richter]

Quinn is essentially, and predominantly, accurate in his analyses.

Vicki, on the other hand, is talking "pretzel logic" (and that's being VERY altruistic).

You didn't even make an argument.

That's fine. Go back to your cellar with your shotgun Hoss. I guess anarchy and the end of the world are on the way. Who runs Barter Town? Master Blaster "Quinn" runs barter town.

[hondarobot]

I'm going to bed.

:wink:

[Quinn]

I guess anarchy and the end of the world are on the way. Who runs Barter Town? Master Blaster "Quinn" runs barter town.

Not once have I mentioned or even come close to implying anything to do with "anarchy" or "the end of the world." Only you, in your usual melodramatic and uninformed fashion, have jumped to such idiotic conclusions. Don't be upset with me or anyone else because you are simply too stupid to comprehend basic macroeconomic trends that are obvious to everyone else. What a tool!

-Quinn

[hondarobot]

Quinn, just back off, OK? You know what's going on. vicki likes to push buttons and stir up debate, it's good for the forum if people think about things and don't get so defensive.

It would get real boring around here without Vicki around.

[Quinn]

Quinn, just back off, OK? You know what's going on. vicki likes to push buttons and stir up debate, it's good for the forum if people think about things and don't get so defensive.

It would get real boring around here without Vicki around.

Honda,

It is she, who rather than engaging in a reasoned debate like everyone else, has chosen to repeatedly belittle or attack me with no initial provocation. As such, I shall respond in any manner I deem to be appropriate...

-Quinn

[Vicki Richter]

With the below post you are preaching the collapse of western civilization. What do you think would happen if people listened to your idiocy and sold all their stocks and invested in "German real estate"? Curious what you think would happen to our economy and way of life with perpetually increasing interest rates and $20/gallon gas? While #1 and #2 are stating the obvious (congratulation on that mystical skill), #3 is questionable. #4-6 are complete speculation. #7 I totally agree with.

I am totally serious. My dad gets these outlandish emails saying to get out of stock and buy gold because judgement day is coming (more or less). I seriously doubt your level of education is much more impressive than mine. I'm sure your friends say, "Quinn's brilliant. Just ask him, he'll tell you."

I mean really, all you are doing below is spouting soothe-saying, read the stars, paranoia inducing bullshit. I was wondering what else Medicine Man Quinn can predict. I am pretty sure you are next in line to replace Greenspan with all of your vast knowledge of economics. But then, maybe we have Warren Buffet as a member of the board here and I'm totally wrong.

Yes name calling also proves your dizzying intellect. Do they teach that in debate class at Harvard? I am truly humbled. What was I thinking?

V


1. Globally, oil production is at or near maximum output and it won’t be increasing anytime soon.

2. Massive increases in the supply of oil are required to fuel the expansion of China’s economy. Since that increased supply is not available, one can expect a massive increase in the price of oil over both the short and long-term.

3. The resulting increase in oil prices will cause pronounced inflationary pressure in the U.S. and many other economies.

4. Since a high rate of inflation is the single greatest threat to the future of any advanced industrialized economy, our perpetually inept Fed will be forced to continually raise interest rates in an attempt to contain the aforementioned inflationary pressure.

5. Both the American real estate and stock markets can be expected to stagnate as a result.

6. Smart investors will seek safe havens for their money. In my case this will mean investing in a number of overseas markets, including the German real estate market. Why? For decades the German real estate market was among the most expensive in Europe. However, during the latest housing boom in Western Europe and the U.S., the German real estate market remained stagnate as Germany’s perpetually outmoded corporations undertook restructuring – a process that hurt their economy in much the same way restructuring by U.S. companies caused a recession in the early nineties. Rapid German economic growth over the next decade will fuel an unprecedented housing boom in Germany while the rest of Europe sees paltry gains or outright decreases in housing valuations.

7. Use your incredible profits to buy more porn

-Quinn

[hondarobot]

Well, I know what you're both saying. It's all very complicated..

Quinn, you seem like a great guy. But honestly, anyone picks a fight with Vicki, I'm going to be on her side. And I can hit back pretty fuckin hard.

But who cares about all the animosity, were just here to have fun.

Quinn, you're a good guy in my book. No more fighting!

Let's just post about pretty girls.

[NickTheQuick]

...

[Vicki Richter]

Quinn... Do you agree with the below? This isn't melodramatic?


1. Get out of debt
2. Get in physical shape
3. Buy a sturdy mountain bike w/ a couple of spare tires.
4. If u have the resources consider relocation to areas of the country that r more "sustainable" and less oil dependent.

[Quinn]

With the below post you are preaching the collapse of western civilization.


Not once has anyone said anything about the collapse of Western civilization or even implied it. This is simply more of your melodramatic rhetoric.



#3 is questionable


Actually, #3 has happened in the past (the 70s for example) and is accepted as conventional wisdom by anyone who understands even the most rudimentary economic principles. The Fed has warned against precisely this sort of thing.



#4-6 are complete speculation


Once again, #4 has happened in the past and is accepted as conventional wisdom by all financial institutions, economists, governments, and think tanks. Number 6, which states that investors will seek safe havens for their money, is exactly the sort of thing that happened in the 30's (during a deflationary crash) and the 70s (during a period of inflation combined with a recession) and happens every time the U.S. economy is under excessive inflationary pressure. Most often, these safe havens take the form of foreign markets.



I seriously doubt your level of education is much more impressive than mine


For what it's worth, I hold a Master's Degree in Business Administration, a Master's Degree in International Relations, and I am now working on a Master's Degree in Economics. I am self-made and get paid large sums of money by very select investors to figure out exactly the sort of issue we are discussing now. You do not.

I do, however, congratulate you for finally addressing points of debate rather than simply attacking me, which is a start. You should, however, try to present at least a single fact rather than talking out of your ass.

-Quinn

[Quinn]

Well, I know what you're both saying. It's all very complicated..

Quinn, you seem like a great guy. But honestly, anyone picks a fight with Vicki, I'm going to be on her side. And I can hit back pretty fuckin hard.

But who cares about all the animosity, were just here to have fun.

Quinn, you're a good guy in my book. No more fighting!

Let's just post about pretty girls.

Honda,

Were cool. I understand that you like Vicki. For what it's worth, I also find her to be very physically attractive. My issue is with her talking shit. I know she isn't truly an idiot, and has approached many topics with humor and intelligence. She has, however, approached this specific topic with stunning ignorance.

-Quinn

[hondarobot]

You're a good guy Quinn. Talk to ya later.

[chefmike]

to simplify matters...

[stickpussygalore]

Shut the fuck up, you illiterate fool.

[chefmike]

hey pussyboy...you're a friggin moron...I won't bother to respond to you again :roll: I doubt you'll be around long...another internet badass... :lol: :lol:

[stickpussygalore]

I'd highly doubt you'd have the intelligence to respond to me, you penny-ante douchebag.

Gee, I wish I could figure out how to use emoticons to express my true feelings!

I feel so inadequate not knowing how to use smiley/angry faces to articulate my hurtful expressions toward others!

Yeah, get bent, you pathetic, disgraceful shit-stain.

[hondarobot]

Just take a time out, stickpussygalore. I've been frustrated and went crazy a bunch of times, most of those were in cooperation with drinking whiskey.

There's really no reason for things here to turn ugly.

It's an internet forum, we talk here. That's it. Shit get's weird sometimes but we deal with it.

[Vicki Richter]

I just have to wonder why this forum is such a mechanism to push a hateful political agenda. I could see if someone was going out of their way to attack our community, but that isn't the case. What GW or Clinton or 99.9% of politicians do has nothing to do with Transsexuals. I could see bashing the attorney general.

But seriously, don't you think always attacking Bush alienates the 51% of the population that voted for him? Whether they choose to speak up or not, they are still reading and posting here. And please don't say that Republicans aren't into TS or some crazy shit.

Politics are Teh Suck.

[hondarobot]

I concur, this forum is definately lacking in Attorney General bashing.

Now when the hell are you gonna show us your new boobs? It's been like three weeks already. Sheesh.

[chefmike]

I could see bashing the attorney general.

But seriously, don't you think always attacking Bush alienates the 51% of the population that voted for him? Whether they choose to speak up or not, they are still reading and posting here. And please don't say that Republicans aren't into TS or some crazy shit.

Politics are Teh Suck.Attorney General Gonzalez was shrubya's chief legal counsel in Texas when shrubya was governor. His specialty was defending shrubs execution of retarded people...but shrub has nothing to do with the fact that he is now the attorney general...yeah...and if you believe that bush got 51% of the vote this time, (numerous documentation of voter fraud in Ohio), if you believe that... as opposed to having his dad's croneys on the supreme court steal the election for him the first term...then maybe you believe this "51%" is represented on this forum...maybe a handful...and "republicans aren't into TS or some crazy shit"...are you not even aware that shrub owes his voter turnout to the religious right hysteria whipped up by the gay marriage amendments in various states? You're certainly entitled to your opinion...as am I...

[chefmike]

I don't mean to offend any of the 51% of the religious right who post here...because I know they fully support free sexual expression AND the bill of rights...but here is one of many pictures of this weekend's- End The shrub's War in Iraq- rallies...held all around the globe...this isn't internet rage, it's 2000 "with a bullet" american citizens dying for NOTHING rage...

[chefmike]

...

[Vicki Richter]

Chef I wonder why it is that .ca dislikes you so much when you are such an intelligent articulate person. (yes a little sarcasm there)

Seriously though. Hard left (or right) wing whackos like you are the problem with politics. You are to the left what people blowing up abortion clinics are to the right. Posting a picture of Bill Bob holding up a sign like that, clearly in a neighborhood where even school children can see, doesn't do anything for your cause.

I don't think people are dying for nothing and it is impossible for anyone to know the outcome of events 5 or 10 years from now that might prove otherwise. Not even with the media can you pretend to have all the information. None of us can.

[chefmike]

talking serious politics with you? you haven't addressed the nonsense in YOUR post that I replied to...you don't think people are dying for nothing...tell me, since you're so in touch with current events (sarcasm intended)...what are "people" aka americans dying for? do you even know what nation the 9/11 terrorists came from? hint: not Iraq... or is it because you hope to one day have bigger oil reserves...so you can drive a gas guzzler...and I notice you left out your blather re the attorney general and right wingers not liking TS, etc..I think you should become a full-fledged member of that Waco-like cult "over there"...you won't have to worry about people discussing politics...unless free lil kim qualifies...I'm done with you, bigfoot

[Vicki Richter]

talking serious politics with you? you haven't addressed the nonsense in YOUR post that I replied to...you don't think people are dying for nothing...tell me, since you're so in touch with current events (sarcasm intended)...what are "people" aka americans dying for? do you even know what nation the 9/11 terrorists came from? hint: not Iraq... or is it because you hope to one day have bigger oil reserves...so you can drive a gas guzzler...and I notice you left out your blather re the attorney general and right wingers not liking TS, etc..I think you should become a full-fledged member of that Waco-like cult "over there"...you won't have to worry about people discussing politics...unless free lil kim qualifies...I'm done with you, bigfoot

Hehe. Why should I debate with you when you don't even clarify your own argument. You don't argue with questions in debate. You state your case and hope that it is superior to that of the other person. Everyone knows where the 911 terrorists came from. However, they are much too large a target. The consequences of disrupting that oil supply would be extremely damaging to the world economy. HOWEVER, being next door neighbors with your enemy makes sound, logical sense from a deterrent stand point. Once we have Iraq we can much more easily perform intelligence on the Saudi's.

Anyway, despite you not raising anything worthy of an intelligent statement, outside of "FUCK BUSH" of course, I will reply as to why I think Americans are in Iraq. If any dictator deserved what happened it was Saddam. Nobody can deny the atrocities he committed to his people and the people of Kuwait. Yes the Saudi's did the 911 thing for the most part, but again, having a presence in that region is better than being totally disconnected and relying on our "friends", again the Saudi's, to help us out there. Does all that warrant killing 2000 Americans and having another 10,000 dismembered in some way? I can't answer that. I don't like to see anyone getting killed. However, a pacifist approach doesn't work in a world where they blow up rental trucks or fly planes into buildings. All I will say is that it's chicken shit to say the President sucks and then not have to say what you would do differently. If you were so passionate about it, I would think you would go places other than a shemale board and be actively trying to change it in a positive manner. If you think sending "FUCK BUSH" pictures to all your friends is making a difference, by all means, go right ahead.

A major problem with this country is that we don't have unity unless something bad happens. It's us against the world in a lot of ways and yet the people just want to bicker and bitch and whine (again without doing anything productive to change it). Who knows, maybe you are already doing fund raisers to make sure the next Democrat is elected and if you are great! Do something productive if you are capable.

Something I will say is that not all Republicans are religious whackos and not all Democrats are about rob from the rich to feed the poor. Alienating the other side doesn't get anyone where they want to be. Somewhere in the middle is the right answer. All I am saying is 51% of the people aren't extremists and when you critisize the President, you are critisizing not only him but them... since they elected him twice.

I'm sorry. I agree that you aren't really worth debating. I don't even care about politics am totally not passionate about them and I understand the issues better than you. My parents go crazy because I can sit back and say, Clinton was a good President, critisize Bush, but still support and respect the fact that he is the President of the United States. If half the squad doesn't respect or want to follow the leader into combat, the whole squad's chances of survival just went down significantly.

[chefmike]

you understand the issues better than I do? I have 18 yr old servers who can shred your (non) arguments...yes...I do spend a little bit of time on political forums...and volunteer during elections...and while corporate donations have ruined the two-party system...the only party taking its marching orders from the religious right is the repubs...currently owned by the neocons...familiar with them? disrupt oil supplies...iraq doesn't even produce enuf oil for themselves...but halliburton is making a killing...and what should have been done differently?...how about not invading Iraq? Hey, I don't give a shit about debating you...but if you keep spouting the ill-informed nonsense that seems to be your forte...then I'll tell you you're full of it...go debate the britney s. versus christina a. controversy in wacoland...

[Vicki Richter]

Oh I see how you debate now. Let me try it your way.

I have a 6 year old niece that can outdebate you.
OK. I win. I have used your own debating prowess against you while stating nothing of the facts. You are making your pastry making bretheren proud.

I could have repeated what you just said by watching Fahrenheit 911. I guess that some people used this as their political bible.

[chefmike]

tsk...tsk...i don't do pastry...us old school guys leave that to the chicks..you understand, right? didn't you say you came frome leaveittobeaverland?

[Quinn]

Chef,

Don’t bother to take Vicki seriously. We’ve all been assailed by her poorly reasoned and incoherent nonsense. The key thing to remember is that, despite showing occasional intelligence, she has no interest in taking part in a reasoned debate; rather, she is more interested in feeding a desperate need for attention by attempting to create drama. To put this in political terms you would appreciate, let me just say this:

Vicki is to a reasoned debate what George Bush is to coherent speech.

Just give it some time, and we will see yet another “I’m leaving the board post” – which will, of course, last only a brief time until her need for attention and drama brings her back again. How tiresome.

-Quinn

[AllanahStarrNYC]

DITTO.

[chefmike]

the chimp is "doing the best he can"...iraq oil non-production...the religious right owning the gop/neocon party...wow...you're wearing me out with your opinions on these issues...I can see why people grow tired of your relentless long-winded wisdom on these issues...damn...compared to you...foxnews (we distort, you decide), ALMOST makes sense...but you don't...

[chefmike]

Quinn...after reading her nonsensical replies to your well thought-out, and learned opinions...I was reluctant to engage...she's like the energizer bunny...keeps going...and going...never making any sense, but...going...going...going

[Vicki Richter]

Chef,

Don’t bother to take Vicki seriously. We’ve all been assailed by her poorly reasoned and incoherent nonsense. The key thing to remember is that, despite showing occasional intelligence, she has no interest in taking part in a reasoned debate; rather, she is more interested in feeding a desperate need for attention by attempting to create drama. To put this in political terms you would appreciate, let me just say this:

Vicki is to a reasoned debate what George Bush is to coherent speech.

Just give it some time, and we will see yet another “I’m leaving the board post” – which will, of course, last only a brief time until her need for attention and drama brings her back again. How tiresome.

-Quinn

Thanks Quinn. I still think the FUCK BUSH pictures really spawn enlightenment. Maybe you should post some to make your points.

[chefmike]

Thanks Quinn. I still think the FUCK BUSH pictures really spawn enlightenment. Maybe you should post some to make your points.by all means.... allow me