Ignorance, Racism and Hate

[meghanchavalier]

Ignorance, Racism and Hate are alive and well in Ohio. Check out the front page of our website to watch the video I'm sure it'll make you cringe just like we did when we saw it.

http://www.stoppingthehate.com

Please vote in this election.

Meghan C.

[a994]

I'm definitely voting, Meghan. And NOT for McInsane and Sarah The Hockey Goon.

I applaud your efforts.

[lupinIII]

And these are the lovely people who are crazily dedicated enough to actually vote, awesome.

A quick question though, if voting were compulsory, do you think the outcome of the past 2 elections would have changed?

I realise that the American population is way too decentralised for any way to effectively enforce a federal law to make voting compulsory. I like to think that the liberal thinking young adults who'd rather get stoned on election day than vote may make a huge difference. That or my faith in humanity can be completely and irreparably shattered by an even bigger landslide win for some inbred, right-wing, extremist government.

[meghanchavalier]

I think that the last two elections were interesting considering Bush really never won either of them. If people were forced to vote, I'm not sure what would happen. All I do know, is that McCain is a very scary individual and Palin is even scarier.

[meghanchavalier]

Also, in case you missed tonights Presidential Debate you can watch it on the front page of the website also.

[yodajazz]

Ignorance, Racism and Hate are alive and well in Ohio. Check out the front page of our website to watch the video I'm sure it'll make you cringe just like we did when we saw it.

http://www.stoppingthehate.com

Please vote in this election.

Meghan C.

Thanks for the post. I watched the video on Ohio and it is amazing how much differences can be within the same state. I have only seen maybe two McCain signs this whole election season, yet we have places like that one in the video within the same state.

One thing the struck me besides the interview was the person who shouted out baby killers becuase the person was holding an Obama sign. It a sin how that issue has been exploited to divide and judge people.

I have deep feelings on the subject, as I changed my life and sacrficed some of my own personal happiness for the sake of my only two children. I have also work jobs, in child protective services, where I was very dedicated, and youth diversion and recreation programs. To characterize me as a 'baby killer' is foul lie, just because I believe that each woman has to make the moral choice for herself and her family.

[meghanchavalier]

I feel the same way and sometimes wonder when did choosing the way you live your own life come into question? It's just like gay marriage, what business is it who you choose to marry? There really is no separation of church and state in our country, and it's obvious.
The video shows you just how far our country hasn't come in certain towns and cities throughout America.

[davidperchance]

It's unfortunate that the documentation of the racist rants of a handful of ignorant McCain supporters (or Obama plants, but that's another story..) have caused tremendous reactionary support of a socialist with extremely naive views of the economy and foreign policy.

It's also striking that few liberals have spoken out against Joe Biden's very open racist views of African- and Indian-Americans, just to name two of his recent targets.

If a government official supports, tacitly or otherwise, the abomination that is partial-birth abortion, he or she should expect to be called a baby killer a time or two. "If the shoe fits" and all that.

Obama is intelligent, I'll give him that. He's very well-spoken, I'll give him that, too. Unfortunately for America, he is also power hungry and slicker than owl shit. He and his campaign have used class envy and racial politics to bamboozle apparently a majority of likely voters in a soon-to-be-successful power grab. Obama/Pelosi/Reed is a very, very scary prospect.

[Justawannabe]

Funny how often when a well spoken democrat gets close to the top, he's slick... oh, and power hungry...

Winning an election is a power grab, convincing folks to vote for you is bamboozling...

But you put a Rep in there... well that is enlightened self interest on the part of the electorate, and a willingness to serve their country. Holding elected office becomes a burden they are willing to beard, rather than a trophy they are trying to steal.

What utter crap. You can't complain about spin while doing it, not as an honest person.

Sean

[chefmike]

It's unfortunate that the documentation of the racist rants of a handful of ignorant McCain supporters (or Obama plants, but that's another story..) have caused tremendous reactionary support of a socialist with extremely naive views of the economy and foreign policy.

It's also striking that few liberals have spoken out against Joe Biden's very open racist views of African- and Indian-Americans, just to name two of his recent targets.

If a government official supports, tacitly or otherwise, the abomination that is partial-birth abortion, he or she should expect to be called a baby killer a time or two. "If the shoe fits" and all that.

Obama is intelligent, I'll give him that. He's very well-spoken, I'll give him that, too. Unfortunately for America, he is also power hungry and slicker than owl shit. He and his campaign have used class envy and racial politics to bamboozle apparently a majority of likely voters in a soon-to-be-successful power grab. Obama/Pelosi/Reed is a very, very scary prospect.

Spoken like a true GOP stooge.

[Barnabis78]

:shock: I can't believe I live in the same state as those nut jobs. :anon

[meghanchavalier]

I just think that racism, ignorance and hatred is alive and well all over our country and it's sad. Don't be ashamed to be from the same state as those people, because if you're not one of them, then you obviously have your head screwed on completely straight :D

[meghanchavalier]

So after watching the video isn't it just sad how ignorant some people can actually be?

[Celeste]

It had been alive, is alive, and will continue to be alive... In every state!

[dan_drade]

I suppose as long as there are people, there will always be those that that will be ignorant. It's just kinda sad that they don't even try to find out if what they have heard is true or not. They just pass it along and add to the ignorance.

[IsuckTgirlCock]

its always poor and miserable people who are bigots

[unctrld1]

SMH . . . This is the equivalent of hearing people insist that the earth is flat and the Sun revolves around it. Why does it surprise me that people still think and feel this way.

It is hard to be optimistic about the future with people like this.

What makes it worse is their sincerity. These are otherwise good people, who sincerely hold racist, isolationist, homophobic, religiously intolerant views. There is no guile in them. They are true believers in intolerance!! They are intolerant for the sake of being intolerant, not for profit or any other reason.

Senator Obama and his supporters should brace themselves for the Bradley Effect. After Nov 4th, it will be renamed the Obama Effect.

[trish]

Thank you Meghan for all your work. You're right McCain is stubborn and scary. Just like Bush, he doesn't know how to change his course once he starts on the downhill. He's a nuisance to all the other skiers. Palin is an end-times horror. It's time to put someone in the White House who is capable of some clarity of thought and acting on it.

[heynow]

Have you heard Obama's "Rev" Wright's Sermon? Do a search and watch it. He also (Obama) has the endorsement of Louis Farrkan, if you don't know who this peice of work is....look him up too. You will have a totally different view of Obama, Whites aren't the only racists, wake up.







It's unfortunate that the documentation of the racist rants of a handful of ignorant McCain supporters (or Obama plants, but that's another story..) have caused tremendous reactionary support of a socialist with extremely naive views of the economy and foreign policy.

It's also striking that few liberals have spoken out against Joe Biden's very open racist views of African- and Indian-Americans, just to name two of his recent targets.

If a government official supports, tacitly or otherwise, the abomination that is partial-birth abortion, he or she should expect to be called a baby killer a time or two. "If the shoe fits" and all that.

Obama is intelligent, I'll give him that. He's very well-spoken, I'll give him that, too. Unfortunately for America, he is also power hungry and slicker than owl shit. He and his campaign have used class envy and racial politics to bamboozle apparently a majority of likely voters in a soon-to-be-successful power grab. Obama/Pelosi/Reed is a very, very scary prospect.

Spoken like a true GOP stooge.

[Floyd R]

First off, Obama is no longer associated with Rev Wright and dissociated himself from his church. Farakkhan can endorse whoever he wants to. There are plenty of people that label themselves as white supremacists that endorse McCain. It simply means McCain can count on them to get their vote on election day. These people choosing to support and vote for McCain doesn't mean McCain is a white supremacist subscribing to their ideology. The same applies to Obama being endorsed by Farakkhan. Do you understand? Or is it easier being a troublemaker?


Have you heard Obama's "Rev" Wright's Sermon? Do a search and watch it. He also (Obama) has the endorsement of Louis Farrkan, if you don't know who this peice of work is....look him up too. You will have a totally different view of Obama, Whites aren't the only racists, wake up.







It's unfortunate that the documentation of the racist rants of a handful of ignorant McCain supporters (or Obama plants, but that's another story..) have caused tremendous reactionary support of a socialist with extremely naive views of the economy and foreign policy.

It's also striking that few liberals have spoken out against Joe Biden's very open racist views of African- and Indian-Americans, just to name two of his recent targets.

If a government official supports, tacitly or otherwise, the abomination that is partial-birth abortion, he or she should expect to be called a baby killer a time or two. "If the shoe fits" and all that.

Obama is intelligent, I'll give him that. He's very well-spoken, I'll give him that, too. Unfortunately for America, he is also power hungry and slicker than owl shit. He and his campaign have used class envy and racial politics to bamboozle apparently a majority of likely voters in a soon-to-be-successful power grab. Obama/Pelosi/Reed is a very, very scary prospect.

Spoken like a true GOP stooge.

[unctrld1]

[quote="heynow"]Have you heard Obama's "Rev" Wright's Sermon? Do a search and watch it. He also (Obama) has the endorsement of Louis Farrkan, if you don't know who this peice of work is....look him up too. You will have a totally different view of Obama, Whites aren't the only racists, wake up.


Funny, I don't see Min. Farrakahn's followers at Obama rallies yelling out "White Devil" or other racist things. There is no video of Nation of Islam members outside of Obama rallies spouting off racist and intolerant views.

Sir, do you believe that Senator Obama is a racist against Whites? If so, how do you explain his maternal parentage?

I do not pose my comments or questions as an attack upon you, I am interested in your views.

[meghanchavalier]

Obama disassociated himself with Reverend Wright when he realized that they were not on the same path. John McCain claims he's not George Bush, but his policies are exactly the same as George Bushes and he has voted with Bush 90% of the time, so beyond the fact that the two inhabit differen't bodies they are exactly the same.
Also, let's not forget the hatred that Sarah Palin has been spreading at all of her rallies, playing on the fears of the American public by constantly bringing up the association of Obama and Ayers.
Barack Obama is a Christian. Barack Obama is not a terroist like McCain and Palin are implying he is.
Also, Republicans have no place to talk about voter fraud considering the elections in 2000 and 2004.
There is racism, ignorance, and hatred everywhere in the world, but why not be the person who says, "I'm not going to be that person. I'm going to be a person who stands for the rights of all people who won't bow down to ignorance, hatred and racism. I'm going to be on the side of humanity."
The world may be messed up, but why be part of the problem? Be part of the solution.

And thanks to everyone who supports the work we do at our website, it's appreciated more than you'll ever know.


Meghan

[meghanchavalier]

We've added two more videos on the front page from a McCain-Palin Rally to the front page of the website. Just when you think their supporters couldn't get any worse....they do.

http://www.stoppingthehate.com

[lupinIII]

The latest vids you linked to, I don't think they're racists. Just, you know...idiots. People with very insulated views who don't exercise much critical thinking in this media saturated milieu. I say this as un-pretentiously as possible.

By the way Meghan, is there any non-online method for someone, i.e. me, to buy your book?

[meghanchavalier]

Alot of them actually are racist with their viewpoints on Obama being a terroist because they're saying that because he has muslim roots he is automatically a terroist, but I agree they are very ignorant. I think there were plenty of Joe Six Packs in that crowd.

If you want to buy my book there is a website for it, http://www.meghansbook.com. There are links to Amazon and Barnes and Noble to buy it.

[arnie666]

Ignorance, Racism and Hate are alive and well in Ohio. Check out the front page of our website to watch the video I'm sure it'll make you cringe just like we did when we saw it.

http://www.stoppingthehate.com

Please vote in this election.

Meghan C.

What a load of shite.Well the comments made about Obama I totally disagree with. But I think your website name is a joke consdering the comments made by some of your high profile supporters about Sarah Palin.

That nasty old hag Madonna said she would beat Palin in the street. (I don't fancy her chances).Hopefully she will and get shot dead by Palins bodyguards which to me would be excellent news. As her music is well shit.

We have that disgusting dyke sandra behnard who advocated a gang rape by Black men concerning Sarah Palin. Why did she specifically talk about the Black man? Is she suggesting that Black men are more prone to gang rape? I find her comments racist also.Where is your thread about that? Or is it because she is a liberal dyke so she is allowed to make those comments.

And these aren't just random loonies at democratic party rallys. These are high profile supporters in the media eye.

So going by your judgement you can either vote for the racist republican party or the party that advocates beating and gangraping a woman and believes that Black men have an innate ability to gang rape white women. .What a choice for the American people.

'stop the hate', lol what a joke!

[meghanchavalier]

Don't worry we all forgive you for your love of the Republican party, BUT, we refuse to support any candidate who's anti-gay and that would be McCain and Palin. Maybe we should put a website up directly aimed at McCain and Palin called StopTheHateMccainAndPalin.Com.

Now by saying you think Madonna should be shot dead by Palin's bodyguards because of her viewpoints pretty much says what kind of person you are and for that I feel sorry for you.

[arnie666]

Don't worry we all forgive you for your love of the Republican party, BUT, we refuse to support any candidate who's anti-gay and that would be McCain and Palin. Maybe we should put a website up directly aimed at McCain and Palin called StopTheHateMccainAndPalin.Com.

You do know that Biden and Obama are against Gay marriage don't you.?Biden mentioned it during his debate with Sarah.

So again you want people to vote for an anti Gay , pro woman beating and gang rape party. Who also talk about Black men in very negative ways. Iam sure you will get the KKK vote!

I am pro Gay marriage which makes me less homophobic than both of your presidential candidates. And I make the republicans look left with some of my views.

[meghanchavalier]

Biden and Obama are for civil unions, and they also believe that the LGBT Community deserves the same basic human rights as every other American. To me that's not anti-gay that's pro-gay.

You can try to defend McCain and Palin to the ends of the Earth with me (Yes the same Earth that Sarah Palin thinks dinosaurs coexisted on that was created 6,000 years ago -- about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs became extinct) but I won't budge on either one of them. I think they're bad for the country and bad for the people. Their policies on many issues go against everything I personally believe in.

Now, how do you want to defend your comment about Palin's bodyguards shooting Madonna? Did you want to go into further detail, or are you just going to let that one slide?

I respect other people's opinions, but I don't respect people who want others to resort to violence to get their point across.

[arnie666]

Biden and Obama are for civil unions, and they also believe that the LGBT Community deserves the same basic human rights as every other American. To me that's not anti-gay that's pro-gay.

You can try to defend McCain and Palin to the ends of the Earth with me (Yes the same Earth that Sarah Palin thinks dinosaurs coexisted on that was created 6,000 years ago -- about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs became extinct) but I won't budge on either one of them. I think they're bad for the country and bad for the people. Their policies on many issues go against everything I personally believe in.

Now, how do you want to defend your comment about Palin's bodyguards shooting Madonna? Did you want to go into further detail, or are you just going to let that one slide?

I respect other people's opinions, but I don't respect people who want others to resort to violence to get their point across.

What? if madonna was stupid enough to attack Palin in the street ,in fact if any nutcase attacked any presidential candidate in this election and they got shot in the face.I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

You would have to be a loon to do that with the buckeroos who are employed by your secret service.

And I notice you don't comment on Madonnas own comment that she made to all her fans.Some of whom might be unstable enough to do that and get shot in the face by Palins body guards. So do you advocate beating women you don't agree with?

[meghanchavalier]

As I write in my book, I grew up with an abusive father who beat my mother constantly so I highly doubt I would advocate abuse of any woman. Madonna does things and says things to shock people, and that's her thing that's what she's always done, and people have denounced many of her on stage antics. Does anyone honestly think Madonna would fight Sarah Palin in the street? I highly doubt that also. Should she have said something differen't? Who knows that's for her to decide, I'm not putting words in her mouth. But, for you to say Madonna should be killed for making the comments? That to me is not acceptable behavior from anyone.
I'm not too sure what point you're trying to get across in your posts, because they're all over the place, but if you have one I really want you to make it so we can have an adult discussion.

[arnie666]

As I write in my book, I grew up with an abusive father who beat my mother constantly so I highly doubt I would advocate abuse of any woman. Madonna does things and says things to shock people, and that's her thing that's what she's always done, and people have denounced many of her on stage antics. Does anyone honestly think Madonna would fight Sarah Palin in the street? I highly doubt that also. Should she have said something differen't? Who knows that's for her to decide, I'm not putting words in her mouth. But, for you to say Madonna should be killed for making the comments? That to me is not acceptable behavior from anyone.
I'm not too sure what point you're trying to get across in your posts, because they're all over the place, but if you have one I really want you to make it so we can have an adult discussion.

Who knows whether Madonna would? as you said she likes to shock people. Iam not going to speculate on that, I don't know her and nor do you. But I do know that Madonna has some very nutty fans and stalkers who might be influenced by what she says remember the guy who tried to assasinate Reagan? who did so for some celebs approval? So you don't think it was irresponsible what she said?And I never said she should be killed for making comments, did you misread it? .But you say what I typed is unacceptable yet can't bring yourself to say anything negative about what she said to 1000's of fans LMAO.

As for being all over the place, I think it is crystal clear what Iam saying.You are a hypocrite, that website is hypocritical , I llustrated where Obama supporters (ones in the public eye no less) made comments advocating violence and hatred towards the Republican VP candidate. Those are just the ones who made the news.You think a few oddballs at party rallies give an indication of a party.So in that case we should take Madonnas and Behnards views of being an indication of the democrats and Obama.

I would have thought my point is obvious but obviously it isn't to someone who is blinded by dogma and leftitst propoganda. It is a shame as you seem rather intelligent.

[arnie666]

So again you want people to vote for an anti Gay , pro woman beating and gang rape party. Who also talk about Black men in very negative ways.

This is the most idiotic comment I've read. Since when does Sandra Bernhard represent or speak for the Democratic Party?

My point is fuckdust, that since when do a few loons at party rallies represent or speak for the Republican party? christ what a stupid cunt we have here.

[meghanchavalier]

I'm not influenced by anyone's opinion but my own. I think for myself, I watch the news, read the news from all networks and make my own judgement call. If you find that you're influenced by other's opinions maybe you should consider yourself a follower and not a leader.

As far as our website goes, if you find hatred and violence funny then maybe it's not the website for you. If you don't agree with our politics, then don't go to the website. We're going to keep doing what we're doing regardless of what people might think. If you think it's a joke, fine. Do you think that'll stop our organization from doing what we can to stop hatred in the LGBT Community? Do you think that an organization like ours that's filled with passion and love for the LGBT Community will stop because you think it's a joke?

My question to you is, what have you done to try to change the world today besides sit behind your computer screen and try to argue with me this morning?

[meghanchavalier]

That nasty old hag Madonna said she would beat Palin in the street. (I don't fancy her chances).Hopefully she will and get shot dead by Palins bodyguards which to me would be excellent news. As her music is well shit.


I'm assuming you're trying to say that you hope she tries to beat down Sarah Palin and in turn gets shot dead. So that makes it all better then I guess... :roll:

[arnie666]

I'm not influenced by anyone's opinion but my own. I think for myself, I watch the news, read the news from all networks and make my own judgement call. If you find that you're influenced by other's opinions maybe you should consider yourself a follower and not a leader.

As far as our website goes, if you find hatred and violence funny then maybe it's not the website for you. If you don't agree with our politics, then don't go to the website. We're going to keep doing what we're doing regardless of what people might think. If you think it's a joke, fine. Do you think that'll stop our organization from doing what we can to stop hatred in the LGBT Community? Do you think that an organization like ours that's filled with passion and love for the LGBT Community will stop because you think it's a joke?

My question to you is, what have you done to try to change the world today besides sit behind your computer screen and try to argue with me this morning?

Actually I think a campaign that stops hatred to the Gay community is a good thing. I just don't get why you need to be party political in the process. And that would be put me off joining you but I guess you won't cry about that.

As for changing the world, today it is my day off and I'm sitting here with a swollen testicle from last night activities so you have me beat. I give you that. But there are seven days in a week.

[arnie666]

christ what a stupid cunt we have here.

Now is that any way to speak about your mother? Bad boy... :lol:

If you had 'hot hung angel' under you name I would swear you were flirting with me :D

[meghanchavalier]

True and seven days a week is what is spent keeping our website going. We have to be political to make sure that McCain doesn't get elected for president. We have to spread our word to Americans through our website to let them know that we DO NOT endorse John McCain as our next president nor do we endorse Sarah Palin as our VP.
Luckily, we have a foundation which we can express our political views in a public forum and choose to do so on a daily basis.
Look, I'm sure there are plenty of log cabin republicans in the LGBT Community that do support McCain but in our organization we don't. That's all I'm saying.
Now, I have to bid you adieu for the morning because I'm opening a restaurant in three weeks and I have to be there to put it all together before the grand opening. Between that, the website and everything else my plate is quite full. But, I will say this...it's been an interesting morning thus far.

[Space_Cowboy]

it seems like instead of voting for the best president, you’re just going to have to vote for the least worst.

Im my opinion Obama seems the least worse, i have watched a few of the presidential debates, and he is the only one who seems to actually answer the questions in some capacity.

All McCain talks about is how you send 700 bn overseas to terrorist and tries to gain cheap pops with the audience, it gets a bit boring.

[Mugai_hentaisha]

Hate comes in many forms

While I don't like hate in any form it will exist until the end of humanity because to us it is emotional. You can use education and you either teach the person that what they are hating is unfounded or irrational, they will still find something else to hate eventually,or you show them that they are right and they suppress the hatred until they can do something about it. either way the root emotion is still there. Human nature plain and simple.

Now on to your videos I really wish I could have said this on your website but nevertheless

1. Words and things have been done on both sides. typical election mudslinging is as old as government itself.

They speak of Obama's Muslim ties..They also speak of his ties to Rev. Wright (I know he left that church) <---prejudging someone due to religion

It was spoken in the press about Palin's religious ties, they kinda poked fun at her once attending a church in which they spoke in tongues, it was also spoken just in this thread someone mocking her of her Beliefs and judging her due to the same <-----Prejudging someone due to Religion

See Hate on both sides of the fence, imagine that. Just because one side is a bit more experience with youtube showing us the demons of the other side doesn't make them angels.


What was scary on your website is something everyone totally missed and I would have too if I weren't taking a history class on Nazi Germany.

I see a country in organized chaos Economy is down <--Don't get me started, wars that are dragging on, debt out of the world, value of the dollar gone, and a Government on both sides that doesn't care for the most part they are too removed to understand the plight of the common person.

in this wound there festers a hatred on both sides, if these conditions were never there they would be out with their ethnic buddies, knowingly hitting on Megan and Wendy in a bar < know I would even with the strife present.lol. But the present events are dire and people look around to find someone to blame and when we start doing that, the hell with objectivity. All that is missing is a person to start telling them what they are fearing and how he or she will fix it for them.


To tell the truth here I don't like either McCain or Obama, but my reasons aren't based on things like race, religion, Age, or a host of other subjective excuses.

TES
William

[meghanchavalier]

I'm glad I caught your post before I walked out the door, because you saw something that others may not have noticed on the website, that the first three topics on the site are about Obama and McCain but when you scroll down just a little further you find stories from the world and what's happening in it. We are not just a political website, we are bringing relevant stories to the LGBT Community that need to be heard. This election is just a small part of who we are as an organization. Thanks for the enlightenment this morning.

[vicky]

They both scare me. 300 million people in this country and these are the best we can come up with pahleesse. Neither of them deserve to be president. But we are going to get stuck with one of them.
Racism flows both directions. It is not only a white thing. And intolerance is everywhere including our own community. Until we realize we are Americans first and hyphens second. And that is all of us, black white jew gentile gay straight. We are all Americans. If you are not a citizen you are a tourist and welcome to the melting pot. The melting pot it needs to get back to. Not the individual ingredients it has become.
Todays society has become so divided with each group pointing the finger at each other. Instead of pointing it at the face in the mirror. And I don't hear anyone in our government taking the blame for anything. But they are fast to place the blame on the other guy.

[MrShow52]

I think that the last two elections were interesting considering Bush really never won either of them. If people were forced to vote, I'm not sure what would happen. All I do know, is that McCain is a very scary individual and Palin is even scarier.

sorry bush won both elections. Dems never could have taken Florida they were just grasping at straws. 2nd wasn't even close.

[SugaSweet]

God Damn America and the Garlic Noses.A lot of the 'racist' complaintants just need a mirror to gaze into.They would see a racist every day.

[whatsupwithat]

Ignorance, Racism and Hate are alive and well in Ohio. Check out the front page of our website to watch the video I'm sure it'll make you cringe just like we did when we saw it.

http://www.stoppingthehate.com

Please vote in this election.

Meghan C.

Wow, I'd never seen your site before! Really nice job. Meghan. Lots of info. Huge thanks to you and all of your contributors for taking the time to put it together and raise the flag of awareness. If i can be of any help, please don't hesitate to ask!

GOBama!

[yodajazz]

I think that the last two elections were interesting considering Bush really never won either of them. If people were forced to vote, I'm not sure what would happen. All I do know, is that McCain is a very scary individual and Palin is even scarier.

sorry bush won both elections. Dems never could have taken Florida they were just grasping at straws. 2nd wasn't even close.

You remember that Bush lost the popular vote in 2000 but won by the Electoral College vote of which Florida votes made Bush the winner. In that state the person who's job it was to certify the run the election was also Bush's state campaign manager. I think her name was Kathleen Harris.

In 2004 Bush won the popular vote, but would have lost because of Electoral College vote, if he had lost Ohio. Ohio was the last state to certify thier results. But is well documented how Ohio's Democratic voters were, suppressed in a variety of ways. An entire book was written about the process. There is more than one movie which covers the subject. A movie called "American Blackout" documents the subject. You can see with your own eyes.

Guess what? Just like in 2000, in 2004 the person whose job it was to run the state presidential election, and certify the results, was also the state manager of Bush's campaign. Ken Blackwell made many controversial decisions. He even instructed counties to destroy evidence which could have been used in a recount, before the legal deadline. But like I say, it was enough to fill an entire book.

I will try to find the link of an article on the subject if I have time.
Here it is: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2008/3201

[MrShow52]

Yes bush didn't get the popular vote in the first election but that's not how you win in our system. It doesn't matter who was in charge in FL, they still have officials etc. handling the election, it's not like Harris did a hand count herself of all the votes. Even in the most favorable counting schemes Gore still lost. Sorry, deal with it. Lol @ your Ohio claim, were voters not disenfranchised in '96 when dems won it? I bet you think Bush planned 9/11 too don't you? Just admit the guy you were rooting for lost, stop acting like a victim, though that's all democrats seem to be good at.

[SarahG]

Yes bush didn't get the popular vote in the first election but that's not how you win in our system. It doesn't matter who was in charge in FL, they still have officials etc. handling the election, it's not like Harris did a hand count herself of all the votes. Even in the most favorable counting schemes Gore still lost. Sorry, deal with it. Lol @ your Ohio claim, were voters not disenfranchised in '96 when dems won it? I bet you think Bush planned 9/11 too don't you? Just admit the guy you were rooting for lost, stop acting like a victim, though that's all democrats seem to be good at.

Except even if FL would have clearly gone to Bush, Harris was still ethically required to recuse herself for her relationship with the Bush campaign.

The heart of this debate is ethics, is it not? It really wouldn't matter what went on in FL or Ohio or anywhere else if it were being done ethically, but there are mountains of evidence that indicate that ethics (as well as laws) are being simply ignored in battleground states... in 2000, 2004, and so far- in 2008.

[NYBURBS]

Yes bush didn't get the popular vote in the first election but that's not how you win in our system. It doesn't matter who was in charge in FL, they still have officials etc. handling the election, it's not like Harris did a hand count herself of all the votes. Even in the most favorable counting schemes Gore still lost. Sorry, deal with it. Lol @ your Ohio claim, were voters not disenfranchised in '96 when dems won it? I bet you think Bush planned 9/11 too don't you? Just admit the guy you were rooting for lost, stop acting like a victim, though that's all democrats seem to be good at.

The whole disgust over Bush v Gore was the way the Supreme Court handled the matter. Conducting and counting the ballots in a presidential contest is a matter for the States to handle. The Supreme Court injected itself along political lines and it is almost universally thought of as one of the lowest points in the Court's history. Bush may very well have won either way, but the process should not have been short circuited.

[meghanchavalier]

Can you imagine the possibilities if all politicians were ethical? It would definitely change the state of the world as we know it.

As far as the 2000 and 2004 elections the only thing this country should regret is the the last 8 years under a Bush Regime.

It's definitely time for a change, and I believe Obama is the change that is needed. If you vote McCain you vote the same. He might not be George Bush but he as voted with George Bush's policies 90% of the time, and to me, that's just a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Cuchulain]

Yes bush didn't get the popular vote in the first election but that's not how you win in our system. It doesn't matter who was in charge in FL, they still have officials etc. handling the election, it's not like Harris did a hand count herself of all the votes. Even in the most favorable counting schemes Gore still lost. Sorry, deal with it.

Are you a moron or a liar? My guess is both. You suggest ol' Katie Harris and Ken Blackwell, both hipdeep in the Bush/Cheney campaigns, didn't have a thumb on the scales?

Investigative reporter Greg Palast has dug deeply into this whole mess:
'Before the 2000 election, ChoicePoint unit Database Technologies, held a $4 million no-bid contract under the control of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, to identify felons who had illegally registered to vote. The ChoicePoint outfit altogether fingered 94,000 Florida residents. As it turned out, less than 3,000 had a verifiable criminal record; almost everyone on the list had the right to vote.

The tens of thousands of “purged” citizens had something in common besides their innocence: The list was, in the majority, made up of African Americans and Hispanics, overwhelmingly Democratic voters whose only crime was V.W.B: Voting While Black. And that little ethnic cleansing operation, conducted by Governor Jeb Bush's gang with ChoicePoint's aid, determined the race in which Harris named Bush the winner by 537 votes.' http://www.gregpalast.com/

Robert F Kennedy Jr explains Ohio '04:
'Indeed, the extent of the GOP's effort to rig the vote shocked even the most experienced observers of American elections. "Ohio was as dirty an election as America has ever seen," Lou Harris, the father of modern political polling, told me. "You look at the turnout and votes in individual precincts, compared to the historic patterns in those counties, and you can tell where the discrepancies are. They stand out like a sore thumb." '...

'The evidence is especially strong in Ohio. In January, a team of mathematicians from the National Election Data Archive, a nonpartisan watchdog group, compared the state's exit polls against the certified vote count in each of the forty-nine precincts polled by Edison/Mitofsky. In twenty-two of those precincts — nearly half of those polled — they discovered results that differed widely from the official tally. Once again — against all odds — the widespread discrepancies were stacked massively in Bush's favor: In only two of the suspect twenty-two precincts did the disparity benefit Kerry. The wildest discrepancy came from the precinct Mitofsky numbered "27," in order to protect the anonymity of those surveyed. According to the exit poll, Kerry should have received sixty-seven percent of the vote in this precinct. Yet the certified tally gave him only thirty-eight percent. The statistical odds against such a variance are just shy of one in 3 billion.' http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

[trish]

Whoever is held up as an example can be criticized either for what they exemplify or for their failure to exemplify that which they are held to symbolize (e.g. Joe the plumber claims Obama's tax plan will hurt him whereas Joe doesn't make near enough money to be negatively effected, indeed he'll get a tax break, and besides he doesn't pay his taxes anyway). Where did Meghan set herself up as an example? Where did anyone else, hold her up as an example? She merely is expressing a political opinion. Her recent post made the point:


If you vote McCain you vote the same. He might not be George Bush but he as voted with George Bush's policies 90% of the time, and to me, that's just a wolf in sheep's clothing.


Since the point is unassailable, DarkThantos seeks instead to attack the maker of the point, insinuating that she shouldn't be allowed the freedom to express herself on political issues. That's rich!

[El Nino]

Can you imagine the possibilities if all politicians were ethical? It would definitely change the state of the world as we know it.

As far as the 2000 and 2004 elections the only thing this country should regret is the the last 8 years under a Bush Regime.

It's definitely time for a change, and I believe Obama is the change that is needed. If you vote McCain you vote the same. He might not be George Bush but he as voted with George Bush's policies 90% of the time, and to me, that's just a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Hey. I am just wondering what it is exactly that you think Obama is going to change?? This is a serious question.

[trish]

thank you for making my point again my not addressing it.

For the third time:

If you vote McCain you vote the same. He might not be George Bush but he as voted with George Bush's policies 90% of the time,

Deal with it.

[MrShow52]

Yes bush didn't get the popular vote in the first election but that's not how you win in our system. It doesn't matter who was in charge in FL, they still have officials etc. handling the election, it's not like Harris did a hand count herself of all the votes. Even in the most favorable counting schemes Gore still lost. Sorry, deal with it. Lol @ your Ohio claim, were voters not disenfranchised in '96 when dems won it? I bet you think Bush planned 9/11 too don't you? Just admit the guy you were rooting for lost, stop acting like a victim, though that's all democrats seem to be good at.

The whole disgust over Bush v Gore was the way the Supreme Court handled the matter. Conducting and counting the ballots in a presidential contest is a matter for the States to handle. The Supreme Court injected itself along political lines and it is almost universally thought of as one of the lowest points in the Court's history. Bush may very well have won either way, but the process should not have been short circuited.

Actually the Supreme Court did exactly what it was supposed to do. They ere arguing over whether or not the multiple recounts the dems were lobbying for were constitutional, and they weren't. The court didn't decide the election, they just stopped the dems from trying to steal it. They didn't short circuit the process, dems were trying to change it to their advantage and the courts saw this and put an end to it.

To that other noob calling me a liar. So Ohio was corrupt because some exit polls differed from the actual results? LOL what a moron. Exit polls are POLLS. Polls are highly UNscientific and can be skewed to pretty much any result you want. Who cares if some fag's exit polls differed from the ACTUAL election results, maybe he needs to work on his polling. Quote more Rolling Stones articles on politics too, we all know how reliable a news source they are.

Also in FL, sorry they don't allow rapists, murderers and bank robbers to vote.

[Cuchulain]

To that other noob calling me a liar. So Ohio was corrupt because some exit polls differed from the actual results? LOL what a moron. Exit polls are POLLS. Polls are highly UNscientific and can be skewed to pretty much any result you want. Who cares if some fag's exit polls differed from the ACTUAL election results, maybe he needs to work on his polling. Quote more Rolling Stones articles on politics too, we all know how reliable a news source they are.

Also in FL, sorry they don't allow rapists, murderers and bank robbers to vote.

Typical REICHwing snake - slither away from the facts and spew talking points and venom. Exit polls are unscientific?

'Are exit polls usually accurate?

Yes, they are. On Nov. 2, 2004, Manjoo's source Mark Blumenthal, the Mystery Pollster, had this to say: "I have always been a fan of exit polls. Despite the occasional controversies, exit polls remain among the most sophisticated and reliable political surveys available." Properly done exit polls are highly accurate. Given the large sample size in U.S. exit polls, they ought to be accurate within 1 to 2 percentage points of the official count.

The 2004 Election Day exit poll was a well-funded effort conducted by the most experienced pollsters in the business, and it represented a broad spectrum of media interests, from Fox to CBS. The sample included 114,559 respondents in the 50 state exit polls, conducted at 1,480 precincts throughout the nation. A subsample of these was selected to provide a sample representative of the U.S. electorate for the national exit poll: 11,719 Election Day voters and 500 absentee and early voters. The National Election Pool, NEP, a consortium of six news organizations (ABC, AP, CBS, CNN, Fox and NBC) pooled resources to conduct a thorough survey of each state and the nation. NEP in turn contracted two respected firms, Joe Lenski's Edison Media research and Warren Mitofsky's Mitofsky International, to conduct the polls.

Prior to 2000, no one even debated the accuracy of exit polls. Scholars, practitioners and critics all agreed. In 1987, Washington Post columnist David Broder wrote that exit polls "are the most useful analytic tool developed in my working life." Political scientists George Edwards and Stephen Wayne, in their book "Presidential Leadership: Politics and Policy," put it this way: "The problems with exit polls lie in their accuracy (rather than inaccuracy). They give the press access to predict the outcome before the elections have been concluded."

An exit pollster himself for more than 20 years, St. Louis University professor of political science Ken Warren has never had an error greater than 2 percent, except one time -- in a 1982 St. Louis primary. In that election, massive voter fraud was subsequently uncovered'
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/06/12/freeman/index.html?source=salon.rss

Rolling Stone unreliable? RFK Jr. cited 208 sources for his extensively researched article. Let's see you refute them, pinhead.

Rapists, murderers and bank robbers? Ok, that's 3000. What about the other 91,000 mostly Democratic voters that got bounced?

Crawl back under your rock, snake-boy.

[NYBURBS]

Yes bush didn't get the popular vote in the first election but that's not how you win in our system. It doesn't matter who was in charge in FL, they still have officials etc. handling the election, it's not like Harris did a hand count herself of all the votes. Even in the most favorable counting schemes Gore still lost. Sorry, deal with it. Lol @ your Ohio claim, were voters not disenfranchised in '96 when dems won it? I bet you think Bush planned 9/11 too don't you? Just admit the guy you were rooting for lost, stop acting like a victim, though that's all democrats seem to be good at.

The whole disgust over Bush v Gore was the way the Supreme Court handled the matter. Conducting and counting the ballots in a presidential contest is a matter for the States to handle. The Supreme Court injected itself along political lines and it is almost universally thought of as one of the lowest points in the Court's history. Bush may very well have won either way, but the process should not have been short circuited.

Actually the Supreme Court did exactly what it was supposed to do. They ere arguing over whether or not the multiple recounts the dems were lobbying for were constitutional, and they weren't. The court didn't decide the election, they just stopped the dems from trying to steal it. They didn't short circuit the process, dems were trying to change it to their advantage and the courts saw this and put an end to it.


Article II Section I:
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Supreme court injected itself into a matter that was left to the States to work out. Perhaps the Florida courts overstepped their bounds but at the end of the day that was for the Florida legislature to work out. So the Supreme Court did many things during that time period, almost none of which was what they were suppose to do.