When do you view a girl as preop or non op

[KiraHarden]

I lean toward someone being considered preop/nonop after they start living fulltime and or being on hrt for awile

Some say as soon as they start hrt

I've heard cd say they are preop/nonop with no intention of doing hrt.

Opinion's please

I know its about how we feel about ourselves that matter most

[Alyssa87]

i dont think of myself in terms of 'op' status.
but simply, a transsexual.

and that came a while after i started moaning.
i was fulltime before that. looking hard,lol! but fulltime.

[saifan]

I'd say living full-time for a considerable amount of time. A year minimum.

[Jericho]

I was going to say something smart arse, but then stopped and thought about it...Good question...Something to ponder.

[Alyssa87]

I was going to say something smart arse, but then stopped and thought about it...Good question...Something to ponder.

i think i was gonna say the same thing 8)

[KiraHarden]

Everyone has their own interpation on this. Right or wrong.

[Teydyn]

I lean toward someone being considered preop after they start living fulltime and or being on hrt for awile
Same here.


I've heard cd say they are preop with no intention of doing hrt.
How can you be "pre" if there will never be even a chance for an "op"?

[phobun]

I lean toward someone being considered preop after they start living fulltime and or being on hrt for awile
Same here.


I've heard cd say they are preop with no intention of doing hrt.
How can you be "pre" if there will never be even a chance for an "op"?
Yeah, a non-op could meet Kira's definition too. Therefore, I would stipulate that a pre-op is a transsexual who has expressed an intention to have SRS in the future.

[KiraHarden]

I lean toward someone being considered preop after they start living fulltime and or being on hrt for awile
Same here.


I've heard cd say they are preop with no intention of doing hrt.
How can you be "pre" if there will never be even a chance for an "op"?

Hey I've been banned from cd chat rooms for saying they are not preop shit they ban me as soon as I say I'm ts sometimes. Lifelong bans too :) haters

[elo]

Preop:M2F-Transsexual who want to have some day srs.

Nonop:M2F-Transsexual who doesn´t want to have srs.

I find it confusing when TGs say they are preop when they doesn´t want to have srs. :?

[KiraHarden]

I lean toward someone being considered preop after they start living fulltime and or being on hrt for awile
Same here.


I've heard cd say they are preop with no intention of doing hrt.
How can you be "pre" if there will never be even a chance for an "op"?
Yeah, a non-op could meet Kira's definition too. Therefore, I would stipulate that a pre-op is a transsexual who has expressed an intention to have SRS in the future.

I goofed just added nonops to preops

[Justawannabe]

My answer is when a person is living full time, but thinking about it I have to say I think I'm wrong. I'm not sure it is a title that should be earned. It seems that it is more a statement of intent. Non-op maybe should be?

I'm just thinking about girls who are living all the life directly under their own control (as opposed to under parent/work restrictions) in the preferred gender, they are doing as much as they can at the time. Should they not be able to call themselves transsexual, or discuss their op ambitions, particularly given the status op ambitions give one in the community of support such as it is.

I actually find the mere existence of this poll to be interesting. Why is op status or ambition a key factor in social acceptance within the trans community? I would think time commitment would be a bigger issue.

You can have a pre-op who will never go on hrt. Some medical reasons prevent specific use of hormones, at least until after surgery. So that concept is completely in line with reality.

Enough for now...

Sean

[SarahG]

How can you be "pre" if there will never be even a chance for an "op"?

Exactly, TV/CDs aren't TS and so TS terms (like pre-op) simply don't apply.

Pre-op as the name implies, shows that its someone who is TS who wants to get the surgery at some point (and there are lots of things that could interfere with that- not having the money, being in jail, etc).

A non-op is someone who doesn't want the surgery.


Now, depending on who you ask in the medical world, a non-op can't be TS because GID is defined as someone who wants to "go all the way". I don't agree with that, as although I don't use this way of thinking, I do understand the logic behind "I should just put it off, maybe indefinitely because the SRS techniques are not as good as I want them to be in terms of XYZ"

Lets face it, SRS is a long, complicated surgery that rarely goes perfectly. I can count on one hand how many people I know who have had it without a complication of some kind, but of those people almost all of them were fine enough to not need revisions, or only a single revision because any complications that did occur were small. :shrug

I suppose its possible that some people are also afraid that they could end up being one of the rare cases where the surgery doesn't go well, and they'll never be able to have vaginal sex. That would especially suck if you use foreign doctors that can't be sued for malpractice.

I am sure there are others who are too high risk for surgeries in general due to health problems. It wouldn't make sense to assume everyone who has GID is young and/or healthy.

[BrendaQG]

Many people write the kinds of things Sarah did. But the fact is that the medical definition as given on the Benjamin scale by Harry Benjamin does not say that.

Check this out (http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/benjamin_gd.html)

Type Four: Transsexual (Nonsurgical)

Gender Feeling: Undecided. Wavering between TV and TS.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses as often as possible with insufficient relief of his gender discomfort. May live as a man or woman; sometimes alternating.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Libido often low. Asexual or auto-erotic. Could be bisexual. Could also be married and have children.
Kinsey Scale: 1-4
Conversion Operation: Attractive but not requested or attraction not admitted.
Estrogen Medication: Needed for comfort and emotional balance.
Psychotherapy: Only as guidance; otherwise refused or unsuccessful.
Remarks: Social life dependent upon circumstances.

Type Five: True Transsexual (moderate intensity)
Gender Feeling: Feminine (trapped in male body)
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives and works as woman if possible. Insufficient relief from dressing.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Libido low. Asexual auto-erotic, or passive homosexual activity. May have been married and have children.
Kinsey Scale: 4-6
Conversion Operation: Requested and usually indicated.
Estrogen Medication: Needed as substitute for or preliminary to operation.
Psychotherapy: Rejected. Useless as to cure. Permissive psychological guidance.
Remarks: Operation hoped for and worked for. Often attained.

Type Six: True Transsexual (high intensity)
Gender Feeling: Feminine. Total psycho-sexual inversion.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: May live and work as a woman. Dressing gives insufficient relief. Gender discomfort intense.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Intensely desires relations with normal male as female if young. May have been married and have children, by using fantasies in intercourse.
Kinsey Scale: 6
Conversion Operation: Urgently requested and usually attained. Indicated.
Estrogen Medication: Required for partial relief.
Psychotherapy: Psychological guidance or psychotherapy for symptomatic relief only.
Remarks: Despises his male sex organs. Danger of suicide or self-mutilation, if too long frustrated.

Do you notice what's bold Italic and underlined in there? First off one of his levels of transsexual is always non-operative. But one level of his "true transsexual" can be satisfied by taking estrogen medication (and I presume operations other than SRS). So Dr. Bejmain the person who wrote the medical definition says transsexuals can be non-operative.


My personal definition is that anyone who lives full time (w or without) hormones and calls themself a transsexual they are a transsexual. It is possible to have ALL your papers in order without the operation if you know the right person or person's to talk to in your state.

The point was made that the op staus thing Is rather peculiar. That it increases your social standing. I don't think so. Frankly some post op's get the op and then want to act like they are the most wise about gender issues, that they get to define who and what other people are. These tend to be people who barrel through the RLT then end up looking like a CD. (You don't have to be hot to look like a transsexual you do have to not look like you just put on your wife/mama's old day dress.)

I could go on and on about this.

[SarahG]

I actually find the mere existence of this poll to be interesting. Why is op status or ambition a key factor in social acceptance within the trans community? I would think time commitment would be a bigger issue.

Whenever talking about distinctions, particularly with conditions like GID & TV, people tend to assume that these differences translate to superiority, or a "my condition is better than yours" situation.

I don't agree with that. There's nothing wrong with the people out there who are into CDing or clothes as a sexual fetish. If that's what blows your skirt up, all the power to you. I really don't care what someone's fetishes are (even if they're AG). I find AGs interesting personally, because its something few people ever admit to, and because of how it fits into the whole debate with Bailey. I am sure if Bailey never tried to argue that all trans people are AG, I'd have never given a shit about it either.

Yet it seems to me, and maybe I am off base here, that a lot of TVs think that acceptance in the community requires being as "GID-like" as possible, including the use of GID terms like pre-op, non-op etc (or downplaying any fetish component when there is one). These are useful terms however, just as GID and TV are. In the dating world non-op vs pre-op distinctions can be important, especially if the guy is a chaser who would lose interest if the girl "went postop" or inversely, if the guy is not a chaser type and would lose interest if "srs never happens." I think it would be reasonable for someone in a relationship to have a general idea what their partner wants to do to themselves in terms of surgeries, and I don't mean this as in a "I forbid you to get __ done" demands, but because some people simply aren't sexually into certain things.

If a guy is only into tiny, natural breasts, sure I can see implants as problematic in that relationship. Or for an example more people would think of: Look how many "traditional" relationships between nontrans couples have their sex lives go south after the girl gains a dozen dress sizes... that's not ED from aging, sometimes the guy just doesn't find the girl attractive anymore. This goes both ways, there are guys that look dramatically different at 50 from 18 in ways that could make them unappealing to their gf/wives too, but this is probably less noticed because a GG who isn't sexually turned on by her BF/husband can still let him fuck her, so as long as the guy can get hard sex can still occur, even if its only really doing any thing for the guy. I tend to think this is more common then people admit, hence all those stereotypes about GG's "faking it"

Even noting functionality, for someone who is trans is an important term, as is noting whether you're a top/bottom. There's going to be problems if the girl is turned off by the idea of topping, and the guy is only a bottom. If people are up front about all these issues at the beginning, then there's no drama when it shows its head months, years into the relationship.

[SarahG]

Many people write the kinds of things Sarah did. But the fact is that the medical definition as given on the Benjamin scale by Harry Benjamin does not say that.


Right, but you know how medical providers are, some professionals simply don't care what the books say- they have their own ideas and either you go along with it, or find another doctor.

It wouldn't be hard to make a case that the SoC is extremely outdated, and it wouldn't even be hard to find doctors who share that viewpoint.



(and I presume operations other than SRS). So Dr. Bejmain the person who wrote the medical definition says transsexuals can be non-operative.

Didn't he initially write his definitions back in the 50s before a lot of these operations even existed? Modern FFS as we know it wasn't around back then, implants came with the 60s (and even then they weren't very good).

That was a whole other world from today as far as trans health care goes, I kind of think Benjamin's writings are more then a bit dated at this point in time.



It is possible to have ALL your papers in order without the operation if you know the right person or person's to talk to in your state.

That's not true at all, it highly depends on the state and there are states where even postops can't change their birth certificates. In Ohio a patient's doctor can be drunk off his ass and put down the wrong sex for a nontrans person's BC and, because of the way the laws work- you'd be stuck with it like that for life. And since BCs are from the state of birth, you could move to any state you want to and that Ohio BC would be looming over your head regardless.

In a lot of states you can "fool" the dmv into issuing a DL with female on it as a preop/nonop but that doesn't mean that the document you'd be getting would stand up legally, or to scrutiny.