If Sen Obama was white

[Paladin]

He'd probably have a 30-35 point lead right now. :shock:

But then again, he might not have been able to beat the hildebeast in the primaries. 8)

What do you think? :?:

[hippifried]

I think it's irrelevant.

[dafame]

You're absolutely right. If Obama were white this thing would have been over a long time ago. Hillary lost primarily because of her vote on the war. If you can recall, Obama's main campaign theme during the primaries was ending the Iraq war which he voted against. This allowed him to be seen as "change" and that's what the people wanted. Had Hillary voted against the war I think it would have been a shoe-in for her because she then would have been able to run on a platform of change with the added advantage of having the last name Clinton.

[chefmike]

It is my opinion that if Obama loses it will be for the most part due to the fact that many whites who would have otherwise voted for the dem ticket chose to vote for McSame(or not vote at all) because Obama is black.

[El Nino]

Obama is not black

[chefmike]

Obama is not black

Ron Paul is an alien.

[El Nino]

Wow, that's a relevant statement Chef. But since you brought up Ron Paul, he was the only candidate with an in depth and thorough understanding of the mechanisms that drive a healthy economy; and he gets laughed off the stage. I guess that does make him an alien to Washington D.C. though, so you are right? I hope you realize that this country is doomed and that Obama is nothing but a sock puppet whom simply offers more of the same and no real "change" or "hope" or any other of those ridiculous catch phrases that are used to control the zombie sheep. By the way, Obama isn't black.

[chefmike]

By the way, Ron Paul is an alien...not to mention a racist crackpot...

[El Nino]

You are truly in a psychological state resulting from mega disinformation or willing denial. Paul is not racist, those were some poor tactics implemented by deceitful political adversaries. Obama on the other hand...
Wake up Chef, your Constitution is crumbling. Snap out of it, the presidential election is a farce. It gives people the illusion they still live in an autonomous democracy, and that is all it is designed to do

[Oli]

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

[El Nino]

Ah, the link game...

http://casone.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2008/09/24/ron-paul-sees-great-depression/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ2gnXu7ezA

http://whatreallyhappened.com/



“Article I, section 8 of the United States Constitution grants Congress the power to coin money and regulate its value, thus the Constitution demands that Congress have control over the U.S. monetary system.

With the passage of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, Congress unconstitutionally transferred control of the U.S. monetary system to a consortium of twelve PRIVATE banks collectively known as the Federal Reserve System or “The Fed”. This system allows The Fed to print money or create it on a computer screen and exchange it for government debt instruments. This means that a group of private banks are authorized to create money out of nothing, and lend it to the government with interest that has to be repaid by the American people through the income tax. The Fed then controls the supply of money, expanding or contracting the supply at will, thus creating constant boom-bust cycles of inflation followed by contraction. The swings in the economic cycle can be gentle or violent depending on whether The Fed is competent or whether it has some other agenda.

In order to affect any real economic reform we must restore the money of the Constitution. When we do, all other necessary reforms will be possible.

[fitz207]

New 9/28 Gallup Poll

Obama 50

McCain 42

Barack Obama leads John McCain, 50% to 42%, among registered voters in the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking update for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday -- just one point shy of his strongest showing of the year.

[celticgrafix]

there would also be no t shirts

[PapaGrande]

It is my opinion that if Obama loses it will be for the most part due to the fact that many whites who would have otherwise voted for the dem ticket chose to vote for McSame(or not vote at all) because Obama is black.

So you are saying there are a lot of racist Democrats then?

Of course that will be the excuse if he loses, that and rigged voting machines, because there is no possible way people could have any objection to the almighty Obama right? Believe it or not, some people actually object to his proposed policies and his political beliefs.

Before the primaries started one of the people who polled the highest in polls of Republicans was Colin Powell. Also Condi Rice polled high as a VP choice. Bush put more minorities in his administration than any other president, sure that didnt turn out so hot for us but still, I think the vast majority of Republicans and Americans in general do not care that Obama is not a white male.

How many blacks will vote for Obama that would have been sitting home on election day if it was Hillary or another Democrat? Seriously, I dont deny there is still racism in America, but being black seems to me to have helped Obama as much as it has hurt him.

How many racists were going to vote for Hillary anyways?

[dafame]

You are truly in a psychological state resulting from mega disinformation or willing denial. Paul is not racist, those were some poor tactics implemented by deceitful political adversaries. Obama on the other hand...
Wake up Chef, your Constitution is crumbling. Snap out of it, the presidential election is a farce. It gives people the illusion they still live in an autonomous democracy, and that is all it is designed to do

You're back to being and idiot. You just don't know when to quit do you?

[dafame]

It is my opinion that if Obama loses it will be for the most part due to the fact that many whites who would have otherwise voted for the dem ticket chose to vote for McSame(or not vote at all) because Obama is black.

So you are saying there are a lot of racist Democrats then?

Of course that will be the excuse if he loses, that and rigged voting machines, because there is no possible way people could have any objection to the almighty Obama right? Believe it or not, some people actually object to his proposed policies and his political beliefs.

Before the primaries started one of the people who polled the highest in polls of Republicans was Colin Powell. Also Condi Rice polled high as a VP choice. Bush put more minorities in his administration than any other president, sure that didnt turn out so hot for us but still, I think the vast majority of Republicans and Americans in general do not care that Obama is not a white male.

How many blacks will vote for Obama that would have been sitting home on election day if it was Hillary or another Democrat? Seriously, I dont deny there is still racism in America, but being black seems to me to have helped Obama as much as it has hurt him.

How many racists were going to vote for Hillary anyways?

Democratic Party is just that (a political party). They're still white.

It's not so much that people couldn't have any objection to the almightyness of Obama, it's that people can't object to the democratic party.

That's being demonstrated in all of the down-ticket races. So if he loses ofcouses it's attributed to things that you just mentioned. That's common sense.

Not sure how many racist would have voted for Hillary, but it's the people that don't consider themselves racist but just can't quite seem to push that chad for Obama despite agreeing with most or all of his positions that will be the problem if there is to be one.

[arnie666]

If obama was a white man I don't think he would have all this support here in Europe. There is a feeling perhaps justified to a degree that having a Black president would be saying something for all those years when African Americans were treated like shit .Part of me wants Obama because Iam ashamed people of my skin colour treated Black people like worse than animals.If I was around at the time in America I would have been part of the civil rights movement. I have never acknowledged that before on here but there you are.

And while I don't live in America I expect in certain places it still goes on now. I have read books about how Blacks were treated in the states and you can be damned sure that in a way I think it would be great for a Black American to get the highest office in the world.And a Royal fuck you to all the kkk white nationalists etc that America can forget about Racial divides. Perhaps some Americans feel the same?

You can talk about Obama as Black half black etc but to many he is Black. The problem for me anyway , I disagree with him fundamentally on many Political issues. If I were American I couldn't vote for him soley for his skin colour but I have friends who would.Just for that. If he was colin Powell or Rice I would be more than happy to tick their box. I would do a lot more with rice than tick her box but thats another thread :D

But look at it this way.This is a great year for America.You have Obama as the Democratic Presidential Nominee. And you have Palin as the republican VP choice. Who would have imagined that America would have two types of people where to some there is a glass ceiling.

Thats why I get annoyed about those who bash Palin.Not because of her policies (if they are being spoken about truthfully, not with lies or exaggerations as many do on this board because they are so partisan they are blind) it is quite right to look at her record ,experience and opinions but because of her gender.Using words like airhead, bimbo, religious loon etc. If words were used to talk about say Obama as a house negro, uncle tom, gangster thug or just plain nigger .Michelle as a hate whitey Black pantheress. Than that would also be disgusting and I think peoples treatment of Palin both on here and in the media has been totally out of order and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

And I hope she excells in the debate but even if she does I am sure none of you will acknowledge it, like I have acknowledged why in a way Iam pleased that Obama has got where he is.

[Paladin]

C'mon keep my thread going peole. Don't you just want to slap the talking heads who keep on "wondering" why Obams' lead is so small or non-existent? :shock:


And that lou dobbs asshole - about as blatantly rascist as you can get on tv.

oberman is still a an asshole, but i think dobbs is a bigger one, because of his cnn position.

We need to bring back hustler's asshole of the month but make it a weekly. :P

[PapaGrande]

I think its a wash between the people who will vote for Obama because he is black, and against him cause he is black.

IMO the only good reason to vote for Obama is that maybe we can finally get past some of the race issues if a blank man can be elected president, but for me that is not reason enough to vote for him since I disagree with about 99% of his policies. Hell I might have voted for the Obama/Clinton "dream ticket" just to take care of the sexism issue at the same time, now we will still have to deal with the first women President, unless of course McCain wins and dies and Palin becomes prez.

[El Nino]

You are truly in a psychological state resulting from mega disinformation or willing denial. Paul is not racist, those were some poor tactics implemented by deceitful political adversaries. Obama on the other hand...
Wake up Chef, your Constitution is crumbling. Snap out of it, the presidential election is a farce. It gives people the illusion they still live in an autonomous democracy, and that is all it is designed to do

You're back to being and idiot. You just don't know when to quit do you?

Me? HAHA, wtf are you talking about? Educate yourself you mindwashed fuck. Prove me wrong and debate the issues if you must. Calling me names reveals that you are pathetic and a mindless savant!

[lisaparadise]

Obama is not blackif obama isnt black then i want a membership to his tanning salon.

[El Nino]

Obama is not blackif obama isnt black then i want a membership to his tanning salon.

He is half black and half white. So logic would tell us that he could just as well call himself white... wouldn't it? Just because he chooses to call himself "black" doesn't make it so. As much as he would want to get rid of 50% of his genetics, it ain't happening. See what I'm getting at?

[trish]

Look. El Nino is a half-wit. Yet he claims to be a wit. Logic would tell us that he could just as well call himself witless. Just because he thinks he's smart doesn't make it so. Just because he would want us to think him intelligent, it ain't happening. See what I'm getting at?

[El Nino]

Look. El Nino is a half-wit. Yet he claims to be a wit. Logic would tell us that he could just as well call himself witless. Just because he thinks he's smart doesn't make it so. Just because he would want us to think him intelligent, it ain't happening. See what I'm getting at?

Trish appears bitter and definitely one of the mindless Obama flock of sheep, whom is dodging the subject matter at large by implementing personal attacks... again

[trish]

You sure know how to misread a girl’s intentions, El Nino. I’m pissed, yes. But not because I support Obama [after all I've left dozens of posts like this one http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=547662&highlight=#547662 unopposed]; but because of your mindless, bigoted argument. Doesn’t it strike you as a little bit ironic, El Nino, that one should put forward such an argument here at HungAngels (a board populated with girls and woman who are genetically 100% male but who know themselves to be otherwise and strive against all kinds of grief and discrimination to live their lives accordingly)? Aren’t you just a little bit ashamed of yourself for being so stupidly undiplomatic? How can you be surprised that someone here might be just a little bit pissed-off with your little nazi scheme of genetic classification.

BTW, if you weren’t such an idiot, you would see my that my previous post did address your “point” (if you want to elevate to such a status) by illustrating categories do not generally have the discrete, well delineated boundaries that genetic definitions of ethnicity would impose.

[fitz207]

Look. El Nino is a half-wit. Yet he claims to be a wit. Logic would tell us that he could just as well call himself witless. Just because he thinks he's smart doesn't make it so. Just because he would want us to think him intelligent, it ain't happening. See what I'm getting at?

Trish appears bitter and definitely one of the mindless Obama flock of sheep, whom is dodging the subject matter at large by implementing personal attacks... again
I think you're talking about Palin, she's the one who attracts the mindless sheep.

[El Nino]

They both do. Two sides of the same coin! Technically though, Obama is not a black man

[trish]

That’s neither true nor false, because without a context “technically” is an ambiguous word. By the vernacular of the heartland (where I live) Obama is technically a black man. By the technicalities of another definition, he may not be. But one would have to know the technicalities of that other definition. One can’t just say, “to be black, 100% of your genes have to be of African origin,” because that definition just doesn’t work. By Leaky’s Out of Africa Hypothesis (which has been disputed but not discredited) all of our genes are 100% of African origin. Genetic definitions are appropriate in their context. But for political, social and cultural purposes biological definitions of identity are way too clunky to be of much relevance.

[El Nino]

Stop it... his mother was a Caucasian. Why complexify? He is a mulatto that is selling this Country out to the globalists, as we speak. Hooray for Obama! /sarcasm

[trish]

By the accords of common usage Obama is black. You hear a white grandmother in Pennsylvania say, “I’m not voting for that nigger.” Another woman from Iowa proclaimed, “I don’t care if he is black, he’s got my vote.” From Philadelphia to Lincoln Nebraska, from Chicago down to New Orleans he is perceived by the heartland to be a black American. If Obama should win the presidency, the history books will claim him as the first African American president, the first black man to occupy the White House. This is in accord with common usage of the terms. You know this. If you don’t there’s not much point in continuing this discussion.

There are, of course, other usages, more complex, designed for specific purposes. Ethnologists, anthropologists, biologists, linguists etc. will classify human beings in way the cross against the grain of common usage and against each other’s grain. One will partition us into groups that allow one to better study the propagation of languages. Others are more interested in the propagation of genes. Still others more interested in the propagation of cultural stories and customs. None of these specialists advocates foisting their particular definitions with specific purposes and intentions upon the general public. None but the most nerdy of these specialists will use his or her own jargon in place of the common vernacular when conversing outside his or her chosen field. So I ask you. Why do you, El Nino, find it necessary to “complexify” the situation and foist upon us your own particular conception of “black”; one you claimed just above to be “technically” correct, and one of which you have yet to technically define.

[El Nino]

By the accords of common usage Obama is black. You hear a white grandmother in Pennsylvania say, “I’m not voting for that nigger.” Another woman from Iowa proclaimed, “I don’t care if he is black, he’s got my vote.” From Philadelphia to Lincoln Nebraska, from Chicago down to New Orleans he is perceived by the heartland to be a black American. If Obama should win the presidency, the history books will claim him as the first African American president, the first black man to occupy the White House

This is simply because of the talking heads on TV and Radio and the mainstream news reporting him to be such; since its the only outlet of information for most of the masses. His whole campaign is accelerated and fueled with the shadows of racism and racist politics. Truth is, he is half white. Why can't that sit with you? Why not call him white then? If there WAS a black man running for president... we'd certainly know it and there would be no ambiguity. He is a mulatto, not black, or white.

[trish]

The media helps determine common usage. It always had, all the way back to the Gutenberg Bible. When it comes to the meaning of words, its usage that decides. Live with it.

I've hinted twice now, this time I'll explicity ask: what is your precise definition of "black".

I’m also curious why this issue is so important to you, El Nino?

I can understand identity obsessions. I’ve plenty of friends who obsess over being black and others over being Irish. I obsess over what it means to be a woman. But why are you so obsessed with persuading us to adopt your definition of “black”?

Are you trying to convince the black membership of HA not to vote for Obama because he’s not black? If so that’s insulting because it’s no reason to vote for anyone. But it’s also kinda stupid because by your alleged definition there ain’t hardly a one of us who is black. By your definition we’re almost all mulatto.

On a personal note, I could live with being “mulatto” but it’s an ugly word with too many syllab[les]. “Black” is simpler and means more. Why “complexify”? Of course politically correct speech would identify me as African/Korean American. And I can live with that too. But it’s way too many syllables for ordinary circumstances. Besides, I hate the idea of modifying my citizenship with qualifiers. I’m an American and upon meeting me it’s obvious I’m black. Were I to win the presidency this November, I would be the first black president elect, and also, if not by common vernacular (except here at HA), the first black woman president elect.

[hippifried]

If there WAS a black man running for president... we'd certainly know it and there would be no ambiguity. He is a mulatto, not black, or white.
& we'd know this how???

What, exactly, is your point?

[El Nino]

Because he would look like this.

[El Nino]

As opposed to this...

[Paladin]

They both do. Two sides of the same coin! Technically though, Obama is not a black man

You don't have your location listed so i might be willing to forgive some ignorance of yours, but you really should know the following:

In just about all of the southern states being 1/16 or more black makes you legally black with all the ramifications that entailed before AND after the passage of the civil rights act.

Further, in most of the southern states, after serving a sentence for a felony, your civil rights - including the right to vote, are NOT automatically restored. Can you guess the ratio both as an absolute and as a percentage of the population, the amounts of whites vs blacks who are convicted felons ?????

Think about it.

[natina]

el nino you have race and nationality mixed up

there is no person of a pure race

race means different things to different people in different countries


what does it mean to you el nino?

how many African Americans or that dark?
how many Caucasians or white?

does it matter to you? why?




As opposed to this...

[trish]

You claim in your above posts that certain people are not “technically” black. It would seem your claim applies to me as well. Imagine my surprise. Please, for the fourth time, El Nino, give the complete technical definition of “black” which you are using.

You also claimed in your posts above that you know the Truth of the matter. Please explain how it is that your definition is the true one. What does that even mean? Your alleged definition doesn’t seem to coincide with common usage. Your alleged definition doesn’t seem to be linguistically based, nor does it seem to be in line with anthropological interests. Why is your definition (if you really have one) to be preferred over all of the other conceptions?
So for the third time (counting hippiefried’s request as well as my own), what is your point? Why is it so important that we all adopt your definition as the “true” one?

You don’t seem to know what a conversation is, El Nino. You accuse people of attacking you and not addressing the issues. But you are the one who is not addressing any of the issues raised. Please do so.

[El Nino]

I know that if Obama's skin was a whole lot darker, and as sick as this sounds, he would probably get less support from the American people. I think it is sad, but true. Honestly, I just have this hunch. That is the point I am trying to bring to a head here.

[trish]

Well you don't need a whole new conception of what it means to be black to make that hackneyed observation.

[El Nino]

Or what it means to be white for that matter ;)

[trish]

Indeed. So the issue is not whether Obama is black, but whether the shade of his skin is light enough to dissipate the fear that some folks might have about him; or dark enough to stir others to go to the polls.

My hunch is that there's not many who will stay away from the polls 'cause he's not dark enough. I have no intuition about those who fear him. But for them, you're probably right insofar that the lighter the skin, the better.

[El Nino]

agreed

[El Nino]

Its his globalist overlords that I take issue with, as you already know Trish!

[trish]

yeah...overloads :roll: let's leave that one for another day.

[trish]

I hate it when I think I've not been absolutely clear, or that I could've been clearer. So I'm going to try again and then go to bed. I trust El Nino will not disagree with the way I put it and our little truce will remain secure:

One does not need to endorse nor to deny the statement, "Obama is black" in order to make the assertion that the shade of his skin my not be light enough to dissipate the fears of some nor dark enough to stir others to go to the polls. The issue of his blackness may be at issue for those who are the subject of the assertion, but it need not be an issue for he who makes the assertion.

There. Good-night chair. Good-night computer. Good-night moon.

[hippifried]

I hate it when I think I've not been absolutely clear, or that I could've been clearer. So I'm going to try again and then go to bed. I trust El Nino will not disagree with the way I put it and our little truce will remain secure:

One does not need to endorse nor to deny the statement, "Obama is black" in order to make the assertion that the shade of his skin my not be light enough to dissipate the fears of some nor dark enough to stir others to go to the polls. The issue of his blackness may be at issue for those who are the subject of the assertion, but it need not be an issue for he who makes the assertion.

There. Good-night chair. Good-night computer. Good-night moon.
Oh yeah. That cleared everything right up. :lol:

[trish]

okay okay i was sleepy :oops:

But if El Nino's only point is that some people may not vote for Obama because his skin is too dark and other's because his skin is too light, then El Nino himself doesn't need to make any claims concerning Obama's "legitimate" membership in the class of ethnic/cultural blacks. As long as he refrains from such claims I have no beef with him. If however, he wants to back up and reassert his previous presumptions about such membership claims, then our disagreement on this issue will continue.

[Mugai_hentaisha]

If Sen Obama was white

He would still be a socialist

Not that McCain is really any different.


TES
William

[NYBURBS]

If Sen Obama was white

He would still be a socialist


Oooohhhh Trish is coming for your ass OHHHHHHHHHH :D

PS- Trish you know we disagree on some things but I enjoy debating you, I just couldn't resist here.

[Paladin]

I still won't put it past the righties to try to rustle up some nasty surprise in the last three weeks.

Damn and i used to like bush....

I never liked chaney or rumhead though and i can't stand most of the GOs running the current mess.