McCain chose a woman as VP

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

we'll see in a few................

some folks speculating it might be the governor of Alaska

[flabbybody]

great call JW
NBC just confirmed that she's been picked as Republican VP

[trannybanger]

a lot of us saw it coming for a while. a desperate grasp if i have ever seen one.

[DJ_Asia]

She looks like she could still get carded in the lower 48,let alone be old enough to be one cardiac arrest away from running the USA....WTF?!

If nothing else the election will be the most interesting in history....say your prayers.

[Beagle]

A good pick. She's tough, no-nonsense. She stopped a lot of the pork projects and wasteful spending, like that stupid bridge to nowhere.

Yeah, she's young and short on experience - but I guess that applies to Obama as well.

She's also a lot more attractive than the plaigerizer Biden.

[timxxx]

Any info on her ? A heavyweight or a another Dan Quayle ?

[ottorocket]

Highlights of Governor Palin's tenure include a successful push for an ethics bill, and also shelving pork-barrel projects supported by fellow Republicans. Palin successfully killed the Bridge to Nowhere project that had become a nationwide symbol of wasteful earmark spending.[10][17] "Alaska needs to be self-sufficient, she says, instead of relying heavily on 'federal dollars,' as the state does today."[11]

She has challenged the state's Republican leaders, helping to launch a campaign by Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell to unseat U.S. Congressman Don Young[18] and publicly challenging Senator Ted Stevens to come clean about the federal investigation into his financial dealings.[10] Fred Barnes of The Weekly Standard praised Palin as a "politician of eye-popping integrity" and referred to her rise as "a great (and rare) story of how adherence to principle—especially to transparency and accountability in government—can produce political success."[11]

In 2007, Palin had an approval rating often in the 90s.[11] A poll published by Hays Research on July 28, 2008 showed Palin's approval rating at 80%.[19]


Energy policies
Palin's tenure is noted for her independence from big oil companies, while still promoting resource development.[11][10] Palin has announced plans to create a new sub-cabinet group of advisors, to address climate change and reduce greenhouse gas emissions within Alaska.[20]

[flabbybody]

feeble looking McCain could kick at any time so we'd better study up on this babe real fast. She could be going toe to toe with Putin next year at this time

gotta say I don't like too many of her views at first glance

[DJ_Asia]

her only prior political experience other than 2 years as Gov of Alaska was a stint as a small town mayor...Also got her former brother in law fired from the state troopers cuz she didnt like the way he treated her sister....brilliant pick McCain!

[trannybanger]

She was not chosen for here integrity or capability, she was choosen merely as a symbol of change. People do want change in the midst of a horrible economy and when the international standing of the U.S. is slipping at an alarming rate, and there really is not a whole lot of difference in what McCain has done in the last 26 years and the policies of the current administration. He knows this is his only opportunity to make that point of change for the future, is with a VP choice that is "unexpected" and "first time in history" to attempt to counter what Obama has propelling him forward.

Good luck Johnny... think this one might bite you in the ass.

[I'm Cursed, I'm Irish]

Wait, McCain picked Tina Fey??

[Odelay]

Energy policies
Palin's tenure is noted for her independence from big oil companies, while still promoting resource development.[11][10] Palin has announced plans to create a new sub-cabinet group of advisors, to address climate change and reduce greenhouse gas emissions within Alaska.[20]

LMAO!

Alaska is going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions within Alaska, while shipping a crapload of oil to the lower 48, every day, where there are no brakes on greenhouse gas emissions. That's akin to bailing water from the bow of a sinking ship with a teacup so that the bow is the last part of the ship to sink.

[ARMANIXXX]

I don't care who the fucker picks,

He's still an elitist, almost dead, racist.

[Beagle]

Racist? Please Explain. You mean racist like Joe Biden and his racist comments about Indian immigrants?

As far as being Elitist, I think Obama has that sewn up. Him and his 1.65 million dollar house that was set up by that Rezko crook.

[ottorocket]

I don't care who the fucker picks,

He's still an elitist, almost dead, racist.

A politician is an elitist?? Thats newsworthy!! :roll:

[ARMANIXXX]

Yeah,

But at least the Elitist pricks that I vote for,

At least they don't forget how many HOUSES they own.

[Legend]

He just took away his biggest trump card away bad move on his part.

[ARMANIXXX]

I don't care who the fucker picks,

He's still an elitist, almost dead, racist.

A politician is an elitist?? Thats newsworthy!! :roll:











Yeah,

But at least the Elitist pricks that I vote for,

At least they don't forget how many HOUSES they own.














Oh yeah......




And they ain't RACIST either.

[lumberjack]

Oh yeah......




And they ain't RACIST either



No Armanixxx, they just play the race card. The fact that 90% of blacks support Obama doesn't make them racist either.

[ARMANIXXX]

Oh yeah......




And they ain't RACIST either



No Armanixxx, they just play the race card. The fact that 90% of blacks support Obama doesn't make them racist either.





Nope.

Makes black people intelligent.

[tsntx]

i think its the smartest thing mccain could have done.... esp after obama was dumb enough to pick biden when so much of dems hate the guy

[lumberjack]

Think it means they like Kool Aid.

[rabidroyboy]

The odds moved since the announcement was made. The money line on Obama was -200 (One to two. You bet two dollars, if you win, you get your two dollars back plus one dollar in winnings) to -180.

In other words, the Las Vegas odd makers (who are usually right) like this move. But McCain is still the clear underdog.

[Beagle]

.....I'm more trouble by the fact that he voted to send young American men and women to fight a war which we had no business starting in the first place.

You're talking about Joe Biden, now, right?

[ARMANIXXX]

Think it means they like Kool Aid.



No.


Well maybe. ;)




But, What it more means is, the 90% (rhetoric) that you speak of, even if true, it means they are not STUPID enough to vote for MORE OF THE SAME, basically voting for an asshole who calls people gooks, has been a RACIST most of is OLD life, renounced MLK for decades, and is sooo fuckin out of touch with common working class, average people, that the fucker doesn't even remember how many houses he has........kinda like this fucker we have now.



yeah.

I'm gonna go with what I just said:


Black people = smart enough to know better

[Legend]

i think its the smartest thing mccain could have done.... esp after obama was dumb enough to pick biden when so much of dems hate the guy

I agree biden was a bad choice but mcain made a bad choice as well he can't go with the inexperience card on obama anymore.I think that was he only shot at defeating obama.

[ARMANIXXX]

She's a little on the older side,

But Yeah, I'd hit it.



Still won't vote for the bitch though.


;)

[hondarobot]

It's official, the Republican party is taking bribes from Mad Magazine.

How they think an old white guy with face cancer and several years of torture under his belt is going to win teamed up with some unknown woman from Alaska is beyond my comprehension. If McCain wins, I vow to use a picture of him as my forum avatar for a year.

I'm going to love seeing Obama win this election.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I was a Clinton supporter, but I would never vote for this woman.
She is pro-life, a life long member of the NRA, and does not compare to any of the Clinton ideology.

Just because she is a woman, does not make her a good candidate. She still has and supports McCain's views-a no end in sight in Iraq, the idea that the economy is sound (HAHA), and the same old Republican bullshit from the last eight years.

I think this was just a strategic move on McCains's camp to only garnish votes and try to gain Clinton votes. Kind of desperate really.

This is no historic event.

Geraldine Ferraro was the first woman to run on a Democratic ticket in 1984 for VP. It always takes the Republican's YEARS to catch up.

[ottorocket]

This is a net-win for Mccain and a very big cut into Obama's inroads for the independents and Hillary womens voters no matter which way you spin it. Palin has the executive experience both Biden and Obama lack, she connnects with the middle American family via the unions and demographics of her family, she's a true reformer, she is an articulate and charismatic personality that rounds out Mccains experienced maverick persona. The VP spot is not about overshadowing the POTUS, as Biden does just on resume comparisons and brash persona...but the VP is basically chosen not to hurt the POTUS as those become apparant. Palin basically accomplishes that, but makes the inroads into the key weakness' Mccain needed to address without coming off as "washington". Obama's team seems to do the opposite. The debates will come and those who have already said Biden will trash Palin need to realize how being overly demeaning or aggressive to her gubernatorial or gender roles will play very negatively with the women accross the country.

[Legend]

Palin has the executive experience both Biden and Obama lack, she connnects with the middle American family via the unions and demographics of her family, she's a true reformer, she is an articulate and charismatic personality that rounds out Mccains experienced maverick persona.

You got all that in one day?

[ottorocket]

Palin has the executive experience both Biden and Obama lack, she connnects with the middle American family via the unions and demographics of her family, she's a true reformer, she is an articulate and charismatic personality that rounds out Mccains experienced maverick persona.

You got all that in one day?

RIF.

http://www.linden-school.org/images/logos/RIF-Logo-blue_large.gif

[MrShow52]

I think she's hot and this is a historic occasion, never has such an attractive woman been nominated for VP

[AllanahStarrNYC]

This is no historic event.

Yea, actually it is. You may not like it, but it is historic. Historic does not always mean the first.

Ok I will rephrase that- it's historic for the Republican party.
Like that better?

I was a kid in 1984 and remember the Mondale/Ferraro bid very well.

It's not that I don't like it- I am glad women have been represented so well in the elections this year. That has nothing to do with it. Just as I don't pick my friends based on sex or race, I don't vote for people becuase they are black, green, male, female-I vote what I see a candidate believes in.

AS I SAID, I voted for Mrs. Clinton, this doesn't change MY vote.

[Legend]

Palin has the executive experience both Biden and Obama lack, she connnects with the middle American family via the unions and demographics of her family, she's a true reformer, she is an articulate and charismatic personality that rounds out Mccains experienced maverick persona.

You got all that in one day?

RIF.

http://www.linden-school.org/images/logos/RIF-Logo-blue_large.gif


I Got You.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

This is a net-win for Mccain and a very big cut into Obama's inroads for the independents and Hillary womens voters no matter which way you spin it. Palin has the executive experience both Biden and Obama lack, she connnects with the middle American family via the unions and demographics of her family, she's a true reformer, she is an articulate and charismatic personality that rounds out Mccains experienced maverick persona. The VP spot is not about overshadowing the POTUS, as Biden does just on resume comparisons and brash persona...but the VP is basically chosen not to hurt the POTUS as those become apparant. Palin basically accomplishes that, but makes the inroads into the key weakness' Mccain needed to address without coming off as "washington". Obama's team seems to do the opposite. The debates will come and those who have already said Biden will trash Palin need to realize how being overly demeaning or aggressive to her gubernatorial or gender roles will play very negatively with the women accross the country.

Are you a Republican?

[ottorocket]

This is a net-win for Mccain and a very big cut into Obama's inroads for the independents and Hillary womens voters no matter which way you spin it. Palin has the executive experience both Biden and Obama lack, she connnects with the middle American family via the unions and demographics of her family, she's a true reformer, she is an articulate and charismatic personality that rounds out Mccains experienced maverick persona. The VP spot is not about overshadowing the POTUS, as Biden does just on resume comparisons and brash persona...but the VP is basically chosen not to hurt the POTUS as those become apparant. Palin basically accomplishes that, but makes the inroads into the key weakness' Mccain needed to address without coming off as "washington". Obama's team seems to do the opposite. The debates will come and those who have already said Biden will trash Palin need to realize how being overly demeaning or aggressive to her gubernatorial or gender roles will play very negatively with the women accross the country.

Are you a Republican?

Registered independent. I'm not voting for either Obama or Mccain at this point.

[trish]

Another good reason not to vote for McCain: if the old fart croaks in office our country will be in the hands of a person who served as a governor for only two years and prior to that she was the mayor of a 9000 person town.

I predict so many republicans will be up in arms over this choice, Sarah will be forced to decline the dubious honor being John Sydney McCain III's running mate.

[Legend]

why didn't obama pick hillary clinton i mean wtf she had the numbers,experience and she was a woman?

[ottorocket]

Another good reason not to vote for McCain: if the old fart croaks in office our country will be in the hands of a person who served as a governor for only two years and prior to that she was the mayor of a 9000 person town.

I predict so many republicans will be up in arms over this choice, Sarah will be forced to decline the dubious honor being John Sydney McCain III's running mate.


She IS a governor. Which gives her more executive experience than Obama or Biden on its face. Legislative experience is not the same as managerial experience as you know. This is one of the Obama campaigns major blunders to expound on that point about her mayoralship by completely disregarding her experience as a woman governor, glass ceilings, and opening a huge hole for disaffected Hillary voters to move towards Mccain. The whole quote actually is a slight on small town middle American voters as well....tsk tsk. The age issue basically is a non-starter with Biden on the Obama ticket, that has shown to have no legs in polling. I hope Obama campaign gets their attack plan down better because they are handing freebies over to Mccain

[ottorocket]

why didn't obama pick hillary clinton i mean wtf she had the numbers,experience and she was a woman?

Hillary is like the third rail of politics...Clintons to many in general have a divisive nature to them, it would never fly in moderate/conservative circles on a GOP ticket.

[ottorocket]

I predict so many republicans will be up in arms over this choice, Sarah will be forced to decline the dubious honor being John Sydney McCain III's running mate.

Your observations are usually very insightful. But not in this case. The deal is done. Sure, some Republicans may question the value of having a freshman Gov. of a state of less than 1 million people on the ticket, but it's too late.

She's not withdrawing. She's on the ticket. Withdrawing would send a signal that McCain's campaign is inept, that would mean defeat for the GOP in November.

Democrats might also regret putting a Sophmore Senator as POTUS when they could have put Hillary. ITs all too late to bring more experience where its desperately needed.

[trish]

You may be right, braveman. I'm better at issues than politics. It does seem the republican party already let on how much of a tizzy there are in, when they announced they may have to delay their convention.

[ARMANIXXX]

why didn't obama pick hillary clinton i mean wtf she had the numbers,experience and she was a woman?



Because that would run CONTRARY to the CHANGE he's been espousing since, well.....forever.

Then there would be more calls for him being inconsistent and a flip flopper, thus losing the moderates, and thus losing the race in the end.

I'd still vote for him, but I would have even lost just a little respect for him had he gone with her.

I don't know if you understand this Legend, because you seem kinda young by some of your postings but:

Smart choice would have been to select Hillary Clinton.
Wise choice is NOT selecting Hillary Clinton.


Obviously, one is greater than the other.

[Tara Emory]

It's a big attempt to steal attention away from Obama's speech (which was great- I wasn't aware they were moving to a big stadium for the last day, so the momentum captured me).

This seems like such a desperate attempt by McCain to steal Hillary's votes. I really can't imagine Hillary supporters going for, with all the bad stuff I've heard about her.

Plus (and good for me, I'm for Obama) this might keep the Republicans who would never, ever vote for a woman at home on Election Day.

-Tara

[Legend]

why didn't obama pick hillary clinton i mean wtf she had the numbers,experience and she was a woman?



Because that would run CONTRARY to the CHANGE he's been espousing since, well.....forever.

Then there would be more calls for him being inconsistent and a flip flopper, thus losing the moderates, and thus losing the race in the end.

I'd still vote for him, but I would have even lost just a little respect for him had he gone with her.

I don't know if you understand this Legend, because you seem kinda young by some of your postings but:

Smart choice would have been to select Hillary Clinton.
Wise choice is NOT selecting Hillary Clinton.


Obviously, one is greater than the other.

So whats the difference between clinton and biden besides her numbers and record.Biden isn't exactly the defintion of change.

[ottorocket]

It's a big attempt to steal attention away from Obama's speech (which was great- I wasn't aware they were moving to a big stadium for the last day, so the momentum captured me).

This seems like such a desperate attempt by McCain to steal Hillary's votes. I really can't imagine Hillary supporters going for, with all the bad stuff I've heard about her.

Plus (and good for me, I'm for Obama) this might keep the Republicans who would never, ever vote for a woman at home on Election Day.

-Tara


Of course its a tactical move..its politics. Everything is tactical in politics down to the Greek stage Obama spoke so well from. Many pundits surmise that Hillary doesn't want Obama to win...she's planning a 2012 run and Hillary really hasn't been championing Obama as she could especially with the campaign Obama ran and the tensions between the two. She'll outwardly show some support as part of the DNC show but behind the scenes don't look for Clinton to do much for his campaign..she's wanting more from Obama than she's offering ($$$).

As far as conservative (evangelical) Republicans... They'll unify by Mccain much stronger now Palin is on board, but the wild card is her down to earth family background, appeal to middle class americans, and her strongest showing will be the on the fence independents who were wondering if he'd bring aboard an inside Washington type who represents the big corporations (eg Romney). Mccain didnt choose the far-right ideologue...Palins more social issues are conservative but not the forfront of her politics. She is not a safe decision...a bit of a gamble,yet has a transformative potential to the Mccain camp, but IMO will offer much more to a broader section of demographics than some other choices he could have made.

[ottorocket]

why didn't obama pick hillary clinton i mean wtf she had the numbers,experience and she was a woman?



Because that would run CONTRARY to the CHANGE he's been espousing since, well.....forever.

Then there would be more calls for him being inconsistent and a flip flopper, thus losing the moderates, and thus losing the race in the end.

I'd still vote for him, but I would have even lost just a little respect for him had he gone with her.

I don't know if you understand this Legend, because you seem kinda young by some of your postings but:

Smart choice would have been to select Hillary Clinton.
Wise choice is NOT selecting Hillary Clinton.


Obviously, one is greater than the other.

So whats the difference between clinton and biden besides her numbers and record.Biden isn't exactly the defintion of change.


IMO Clinton probably didnt want the VP selection. She wasn't even vetted for it, was overlooked for it and/or likely declined the selection. A VP spot would mean 8 years of OBama Presidency...because that would be the media projected "dream ticket" that would sell. Obama picked Biden for his experience...that which he doesnt have himself, and for his ability to connect with blue collar workers. Biden doesnt offer half of what a Obama/Hillary ticket does. The only problem with that would be Clinton would overshadow Obama in nearly all areas. Regardless, she wants her own ticket, not ride the tails of Obama.

Hillary voters who vote for Obama really will just reward the guy who dissed them most and you'll probably see alot others going to Mccain.

[flabbybody]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska

being governor of this state is executive experience ??
there's more people living in Jackson Heights

[ottorocket]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska

being governor of this state is executive experience ??
there's more people living in Jackson Heights

THat can of worms... Obama supporters really should NOT be opening up. Voters vote mostly on the POTUS anyways not VP... all this VP stuff will be moot in a few weeks, and the Presidency will be chosen by the credentials and policies of the candidates for the highest office.

[ARMANIXXX]

So whats the difference between clinton and biden besides her numbers and record.Biden isn't exactly the defintion of change.



The difference is perception......A front line difference, of sorts.



Clinton has already effectively been in the White House for 8 years.



*shrug*

enough said from me.

off to work now.q

[Quiet Reflections]

Racist? Please Explain. You mean racist like Joe Biden and his racist comments about Indian immigrants?

As far as being Elitist, I think Obama has that sewn up. Him and his 1.65 million dollar house that was set up by that Rezko crook.
Mccain voted against civil rights and was in favor of jim crow . and obama can have 1 nice house since mccain has 7 worth over 13 mil.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Bottom line- this is an attempt to do what Republicans do best, steal votes.

[meghanchavalier]

Sarah Palin is anti-gay and anti-abortion, so it was a perfect choice for McCain but not a perfect choice for the country. If McCain wins God help us all. It'll just be George W. Bush all over again.

[GroobySteven]

Who?

What a weird choice ... female and young ... the Republicans have no grasp of reality if they think that's going to attract votes ... then again ...

[Baron Of Hell]

It is meant to attract democrat votes. The ones that are pissed because hilary didn't make the cut. If McCain gets those 27% of hilary supports that say they will not vote for Obama then McCain has a very good chance of winning.

[meghanchavalier]

Well it didn't take long for the press to dig up dirt on her that's for sure.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/254/story/51144.html

Enjoy!

[Dinand]

It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of women will now vote for McCain, not because they like his ideas but only and only because a woman is his VP. I think American women are obsessed with getting power and they will vote on anyone for that......see Hillary Clinton.

[ottorocket]

Well it didn't take long for the press to dig up dirt on her that's for sure.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/254/story/51144.html

Enjoy!


Whatever digging this brings will be returned with Rezko... For the Obama campaign they need to be careful to expose all this "dirt" for fear of revealing their own coffins.

[ottorocket]

It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of women will now vote for McCain, not because they like his ideas but only and only because a woman is his VP. I think American women are obsessed with getting power and they will vote on anyone for that......see Hillary Clinton.

The feminists are outraged that their struggles were eclipsed by racial ones...some polls are showing a defection of up to %30 of Hillary votes to Mccain

[Baron Of Hell]

Well it didn't take long for the press to dig up dirt on her that's for sure.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/254/story/51144.html

Enjoy!

This has been in the news since early July. This is biggest reason why I thought she was a odd choice. McCain must have known this going in so I guess he thinks it isn't true and has plans to fight this or his team is extremely stupid.

[meghanchavalier]

I would say plain stupid. I thought it was interesting that she said that she has lots of gay friends but isn't for gay marriage. I'm sorry but it's not a two way street, you either support the gay community or you don't. Flip flopping to appease the masses isn't acceptable.

[ottorocket]

I would say plain stupid. I thought it was interesting that she said that she has lots of gay friends but isn't for gay marriage. I'm sorry but it's not a two way street, you either support the gay community or you don't. Flip flopping to appease the masses isn't acceptable.


So one can't own guns but be against the NRA? :( :wink:

[meghanchavalier]

Well, if you own a gun you already agree with alot of what the NRA stands for don't you think?

[yodajazz]

why didn't obama pick hillary clinton i mean wtf she had the numbers,experience and she was a woman?

Hillary is like the third rail of politics...Clintons to many in general have a divisive nature to them, it would never fly in moderate/conservative circles on a GOP ticket.

This is worth reposting here:



The thing about Hillary being vice president, as she should have been, is that she has high negative feelings among a strong element of US society/culture. This is because the Evil Empire has had 16 years to create negativity towards her. This is with the help of the Religious Wrong. They spent the full 8 years of her time as First Lady investigating her and never had evidence to file charges, (Whitewater). But that cloud of indictment did serve the Evil Empire. It kept up negative talk regarding her, so that other negative talk could stick. I heard negative stuff come out of Religious Wrong leader, Pat Robertson with my own ears, during that time.

As a example of my case, a religious associate directed me to google Hillary Clinton, and witchcraft, together. It you do, you will find multiple entries of sites addressing this topic, accusing her of dabbling in witchcraft. You may laugh, but there is a certain segment of people who would entertain that type of negative energy. So with that type of negative base, people are set to believe further lies. Lying is the basic nature of evil, by the way. The lies that are forthcoming in this election campaign will stick easier on someone like Hillary, who have already been market positioned, through the Republican media machine, since at least 1992.

[ottorocket]

Well, if you own a gun you already agree with alot of what the NRA stands for don't you think?

Not necassarily. Its can not be mutually exclusive to own a gun and not agree with the social tenants of a large political organization.

[meghanchavalier]

I guess we'll agree to disagree on that one

[ottorocket]

I guess we'll agree to disagree on that one

I don't see a conflict in that position really...it actually jibes with my personal decisions to not follow the traditional paths of either party or be a "true believer" as some may describe those who faithfully follow a party line. I have two gay friends who don't ascribe to gay marriage proposal here in California too so with regards differences in people and political organizations agenda's and beliefs its not all or nothing as many want others to beleive.

[meghanchavalier]

I'm not sure how someone who is gay would not believe that the community should not be afforded all of the same civil rights and liberties as every other american and that includes gay marriage.

[ottorocket]

I'm not sure how someone who is gay would not believe that the community should not be afforded all of the same civil rights and liberties as every other american and that includes gay marriage.


I can't tell you why they believe that, it may be due to their religious upbringings or whatever, all i can tell you is they do support civil unions but not "marraige" in that sense. As i said...nothing is all or nothing and I respect your opinions on it, but all I'm saying is that I am not a soundbite voter or single issue voter, and i'm not alone in that i suppose.

[meghanchavalier]

Well, I guess it comes down to believe in what you believe in and stand behind it if it motivates you.

[Ben]

Sarah Palin does indeed OPPOSE same-sex marriage.
Alaska was one of the first American states to pass a constitutional ban on gay marriage.
She could very well be to the right of John McCain.
He chose her because of gender and age. She turns 45 next February. He'll be 73 next August. Oh, and she's able to use the Internet -- ha!ha!

[yodajazz]

Que? What? Uh? You are confusing stealing votes with attracting votes. A campaign can't steal votes by simply nominating a person. It's called a tactic. Democrats do not own the female vote, so Republicans can't "steal" it from them.

What next? Republicans are to blame for Tropical Storm Gustav?

Oh, and just for the record: I am NOT voting for McCain.


Bottom line- this is an attempt to do what Republicans do best, steal votes.

But stealing votes is not out of the picture. I just saw a movie this week called “American Blackout” which shows how voting machines were taken out of Black areas in Columbus Ohio in the 2004 presidential election. Residents in the predominately Democratic area had to wait in line fours, outside in the rain in order to vote. There were not long lines in the suburban areas. They showed the lines from a helicopter view, they were so long stretching for blocks, in some cases. There were also very long lines of up to four hours in several college towns, where there would be tendency to have liberal views.

The Secretary of State, whose job it was to oversee the election, was also George Bush’s campaign manager for the state. He made some controversial decisions on how certain ballots were collected and counted. And it was Ohio’s electoral votes that put Bush over the top, for his second term.

As for2000 in Florida, word on the street was that there was a heavy police presence in the Black community on that Election Day. A lot of poorer people have outstanding traffic violations, so heavy police presence helped keep the turnout down, an area that votes maybe 90 democratic. As you may recall, George Bush’s brother was governor, and the Secretary of State, whose job it was to certify the election results, was also Bush’s campaign manager for the state.

[TomSelis]

McCain went for the eyecandy, huh?

LOL

[Baron Of Hell]

I think he plans to leave Cindy for Palin

[TomSelis]

McCain went for the eyecandy, huh? LOL

For a politician, she is fuckalicious! lol

http://media.washingtontimes.com/media/img/photos/2008/08/30/20080829-121338-pic-520321647.jpg

That's exactly what I was saying.....

[Christastic]

Pawlenty obviously thought as recently as yesterday that he was going to take the nod; it looks like the Obama acceptance speech so rattled McCain that he picked Palin simply to retake control of the newscycle. That's so fundamentally unserious as to be scary. Almost no thought went into picking this woman as far as governing, or even what her positions are. Some of her policy statements are in direct contradiction of the McCain campaigns. This for sure looks good, but I have to wonder how it plays out in the next few days. It's going to be entertaining.

[Baron Of Hell]

If McCain becomes president and Palin is badly hurt in a car accident can he trade her in for a younger hotter richer VP like he did his wife?

[hondarobot]

I wish he had picked Pawlenty, get that joker out of our state for awhile. What's even worse is the convention is coming up, and downtown Minneapolis is swarming with cops. They all look rather mean and one of my sisters is planning on getting arrested at the protests. The official hotel for the convention is also two blocks from my apartment, they booked the whole place. That should be interesting.

There's helicopters zipping around like dragonflies outside as I type this. Why did the Republicans have to pick us?

:cry:

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

A few things from this thread:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska

being governor of this state is executive experience ??
there's more people living in Jackson Heights

Priceless 8)


It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of women will now vote for McCain, not because they like his ideas but only and only because a woman is his VP. I think American women are obsessed with getting power and they will vote on anyone for that......see Hillary Clinton.

If this was the case Geraldine would've been VP long ago

I agree with a few of you on certain things
she's got that milf next door that looks at you but would never make a move because she's afraid of what younger better dick would do to her marriage

this pick was done to attempt to steal votes...............

Her age isn't an issue
Her looks aren't an issue
Her 2 years as governor of Alaska are not an issue
The distraction caused by McCain by picking her: AN ISSUE!!!!!!!
it's like trying to patch up a hole in a sinking ship and all you have to patch it is toilet paper, at the end of the day the ship still sank, but you delayed it with that semi decent water absorption!

For those of you that don't know, JWBL is a Republican. It was my choice, doesn't mean I support McCain and in my state it really doesn't matter, I'm a blood living in a Crip's hood.

That means nothing though, here's the bottom line. America (and in America I mean those that on election day won't be cheated out of voting) will vote for 2 men of any ethnicity over a man & a woman. Obama's camp knows this and McCain's camp knows this hence the late yet I have to say brave move. By picking the Igloo Milf the Republicans are doing what they do best, disrupting the media's bullshit polls which can cause doubts in some of the "simplest" minds.

What we've needed to be concerned about for the last 7 years isn't who's next but "can we properly vote" for who's next............. Florida will once again be the dog's tail in November and another presidency might be stolen.

[Legend]

Does anyone else feel that mccain has stolen some of the thunder from obama after his latest vp move.I mean his vp is a woman who they say is a new face and fighter and obama's guy is good but he has some baggage.One thing i can't stop thinking about is the clinton supporters who will have no problem voting for mccain now.I see alot of people wishing that hillary was the nominee now.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

Does anyone else feel that mccain has stolen some of the thunder from obama after his latest vp move.I mean his vp is a woman who they say is a new face and fighter and obama's guy is good but he has some baggage.One thing i can't stop thinking about is the clinton supporters who will have no problem voting for mccain now.I see alot of people wishing that hillary was the nominee now.

lol, Legend did you read anything I just typed? just curious

I just wanna say I think it's hilarious that CNN had a guy on from one of the Alaskan news papers who at the end of the interview said "Palin is less qualified than Dan Quayle"

again.............. priceless

[Fox]

Shock tactics are nice and all (and so very obvious), but as an Obama supporter, I can't wait to see the Republican convention and what they have to say. And I hate to marginalize any woman, but at McCain's age he probably just wanted a pretty face to look at in White House meetings, haha.

I wonder how long until we see political cartoons of her and McCain in the oval office screwing...

[Tara Emory]

It is meant to attract democrat votes. The ones that are pissed because hilary didn't make the cut. If McCain gets those 27% of hilary supports that say they will not vote for Obama then McCain has a very good chance of winning.

But even if he does that, won't he lose a lot of votes from diehard right wingers who would never, ever vote for a woman on the ticket?

-Tara

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

Shock tactics are nice and all (and so very obvious), but as an Obama supporter, I can't wait to see the Republican convention and what they have to say. And I hate to marginalize any woman, but at McCain's age he probably just wanted a pretty face to look at in White House meetings, haha.

I wonder how long until we see political cartoons of her and McCain in the oval office screwing...

tomorrow morning and at it's latest Sunday's NY Times, political cartoonist are probably at art shops right now

[Legend]

Does anyone else feel that mccain has stolen some of the thunder from obama after his latest vp move.I mean his vp is a woman who they say is a new face and fighter and obama's guy is good but he has some baggage.One thing i can't stop thinking about is the clinton supporters who will have no problem voting for mccain now.I see alot of people wishing that hillary was the nominee now.

lol, Legend did you read anything I just typed? just curious

Yes i did and you stating you were a republican is a big WTF to me but yeah I read it and thought you could be right no worries but then i watched to different new channels all praise mccain for his vp choice and state he could steal Hillary's voters and that's when the doubts played in.

[Tara Emory]

It is meant to attract democrat votes. The ones that are pissed because hilary didn't make the cut. If McCain gets those 27% of hilary supports that say they will not vote for Obama then McCain has a very good chance of winning.

But even if he does that, won't he lose a lot of votes from diehard right wingers who would never, ever vote for a woman on the ticket?

-Tara

Oh, I guess I already said this in a previous statement.

- but responding to someone who thought it was a "ridiculous thing to say"..

But come on- remember when Hillary was running and they gave her so much shit in the press about her crying and showing emotion. There was (and mind you, in the more right wing circles) quite a lot of people equating being female and emotional = not being tough enough for the job. I'd have to say there are a certain amount of voters who might feel that way too.

-Tara

[Beagle]

tara

i think you have a misconception about "die hard" right wingers or conservatives.

these people have no problem in supporting a female for office. the left wingers would like for you to believe that all righties are homophobic, racist, anti-woman but that's a joke.

most of my friends who i consider to be very conservative welcome palin to the ticket and are more excited about her than mccain. there are many super qualified conservative men and women who are african american, hispanic, asian, etc.

in fact, many of my conservative idols are female, asian, black, latino or some combination. for example, Walter Williams, michelle malkin, thomas sowell, condi rice, jc watts (okla congressman)

ps: i believe people and the press gave hillary shit about crying because she came across as being phony-baloney. i dont think it really had much to do about her being a woman. It was the same old clinton crap. Remember that time when bill was caught by the camera laughing and joking during ron brown's funeraL? and then in a microsecond he switched on the tears because he saw the camera? Well, that's what people thought hillary was doing.

[MrShow52]

yeah like, right wingers would much rather see a god fearing, pro-life white mother of 5 in office than an american hating, ultra socialist muslim. You'd need like, a gay dude that'd been married in SF on the ticket to lose conservative votes to obama.

[Buzz]

Talk about sexist...do you think this individual would have been picked for this job if she wasn't a woman? I'm reading now that Hillary supporters say it's patronizing and a very cynical move by McCain and Rove.

You have to see this interview... (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/29/sarah-palin-july-2008-i-dont-even-know-what-the-vice-president-does/)
http://static.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/cnbc-palin.jpg
Sarah Palin, July 2008: I don’t even know what the Vice President does (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/29/sarah-palin-july-2008-i-dont-even-know-what-the-vice-president-does/)

And even if being VP were a job without any responsibility, being President is a job with a helluva lot of responsibility, and Sarah Palin just isn't qualified. Haven't we had enough of unqualified governors as President after 8 years of Texas Governor George W. Bush?

Hillary is now going to work twice as hard to persuade her followers to vote for Obama, because she's not going to want to be majority leader of the senate while Sarah Palin is the president of the Senate (the VP's other role) and a potential incumbent candidate for President in 4 or 8 years. You can bet that she still wants to be the first woman President.

[Beagle]

well if hillary wants to be president in 2012 then dont you think she'll vote for mccain?

and if sarah palin isnt qualified then why is obama qualified. she's held more public offices than he has. she's actually done things too.

what in the hell has obama actually done or accomplished for his constituents?

the only thing i can see is that he's a good public speaker and organizer.

if you're going to have someone who inexperienced, i'd rather that person be in the vp position instead of the president. i actually think the whole experience thing has been overblown on both sides. i'm not voting for obama because of his lack of experience, i'm not voting for obama because i don't like his policies and views. I think he's probably an ok guy and i admire his tenacity and bravado - i just disagree with him.

and if you think bush's governor's experience disqualifies him, then i guess old bubba clinton's governor's experience disqualified him too.

[Solitary Brother]

This was a very gutsy and ballsy pick for McCain.....something the McCain of 2000 and before would have done.
I like the pick actually and this chick is quite the looker in my opinion.

[Beagle]

wow, solitary we actually agree on sumthing.

palin is sharp. I think she will do very well against biden in the upcoming debates. she's a great debater and biden's a hot head who can speak without thinking.

palin's a real outsider and not your typical inside the beltway candidate. she's not an oil insider as some have suggested, in fact, she's gone toe to toe with the oil companies. youall should do a bit of research on her.

yeah, she's pro-life and for the right to bear arms, but that's not a big surprise. but she's certainly closer to the common person than any of the other candidates. husband works two jobs, etc... certainly not your typ stereotype republican, eh?

by the way, doesn't it bother anyone that NONE of the democrats are able to put ANY limits on abortion at ALL? not even those grisly partial birth abortions? jeeze, can we at least agree on that!

[Solitary Brother]

She has problems though.
She is affiliated with that crook TED STEVENS the republican senator who was just indicted.
Plus she has her own little investigation going on about her.
I must say she seems to be a ballsy chick and quite the looker.


Oh my ...get into that last sentence.
I am officially a chaser!

[qeuqheeg222]

that 27%of hillary voters who will never vote for obama ???do you think this group is women or disenfranchised joe sixpacks????just curious...

[toxicadam]

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/594/2gue0d0dh7.jpg

[fitz207]

She IS a governor. Which gives her more executive experience than Obama or Biden on its face. Legislative experience is not the same as managerial experience as you know. This is one of the Obama campaigns major blunders to expound on that point about her mayoralship by completely disregarding her experience as a woman governor, glass ceilings, and opening a huge hole for disaffected Hillary voters to move towards Mccain. The whole quote actually is a slight on small town middle American voters as well....tsk tsk. The age issue basically is a non-starter with Biden on the Obama ticket, that has shown to have no legs in polling. I hope Obama campaign gets their attack plan down better because they are handing freebies over to Mccain
Yes but Obama has run a major campaign on a national level, which qualifies as managerial experience. Do you really think 18 million voters are going to flock to her just because she's a woman? Oh and she called HRC a whiner, because she was complaining about sexism in the media. It was stupid to praise HRC after she's on record making a stupid statement like that.

[JanetElise]

Helluva smart move in my opinion.

Helluva hot 44 year old MILF too I must say!

[fitz207]

Yeah, she's young and short on experience - but I guess that applies to Obama as well.

She's also a lot more attractive than the plaigerizer Biden.
Wrong. Unlike Palin, Obama was nominated because he won the primaries. Palin was appointed. Palin's 2 years as a small state Governor doesn't come close to Obama's national experience at running the most efficient and disciplined campaign in US history. Many former presidents have said that the hardest part of the job is campaigning.

[JanetElise]

Nor is Obama qualified to be president.



Talk about sexist...do you think this individual would have been picked for this job if she wasn't a woman? I'm reading now that Hillary supporters say it's patronizing and a very cynical move by McCain and Rove.

You have to see this interview... (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/29/sarah-palin-july-2008-i-dont-even-know-what-the-vice-president-does/)
http://static.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/cnbc-palin.jpg
Sarah Palin, July 2008: I don’t even know what the Vice President does (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/29/sarah-palin-july-2008-i-dont-even-know-what-the-vice-president-does/)

And even if being VP were a job without any responsibility, being President is a job with a helluva lot of responsibility, and Sarah Palin just isn't qualified. Haven't we had enough of unqualified governors as President after 8 years of Texas Governor George W. Bush?

Hillary is now going to work twice as hard to persuade her followers to vote for Obama, because she's not going to want to be majority leader of the senate while Sarah Palin is the president of the Senate (the VP's other role) and a potential incumbent candidate for President in 4 or 8 years. You can bet that she still wants to be the first woman President.

[fitz207]

I was a Clinton supporter, but I would never vote for this woman.
She is pro-life, a life long member of the NRA, and does not compare to any of the Clinton ideology.

Just because she is a woman, does not make her a good candidate. She still has and supports McCain's views-a no end in sight in Iraq, the idea that the economy is sound (HAHA), and the same old Republican bullshit from the last eight years.

I think this was just a strategic move on McCains's camp to only garnish votes and try to gain Clinton votes. Kind of desperate really.

This is no historic event.

Geraldine Ferraro was the first woman to run on a Democratic ticket in 1984 for VP. It always takes the Republican's YEARS to catch up.
:claps :claps :claps :claps :claps :claps

[PapaGrande]

Yeah,

But at least the Elitist pricks that I vote for,

At least they don't forget how many HOUSES they own.

Lets see what the Obama's net worth is when he is 72.

[toxicadam]

Jack Cafferty: McCain VP mistake?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZClVX0xlqU

That's awesome :lol:

[fitz207]

Nor is Obama qualified to be president.
Here we go again. Both are qualified to be president. Requirements: An age of 35, resident of the US for 14 years and a natural born citizen.

[JanetElise]

Here is a nice little video to watch.

Keep in mind this is not Fox News.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EfUmrBeO_Xo&feature=related

[fitz207]

I'm so sick of hearing how Obama is not qualified for the job. Anyone who can read can tell, that he is more than qualified for job:

Undergraduate

Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA
Undergraduate, 1981-1983


Columbia University
B.A. Political Science with specialization in international relations
Thesis topic: Soviet nuclear disarmament

Graduate

Harvard Law School
J.D. magna cum laude 1988-1991

President, Harvard Law Review



Organizing

1983-1988 Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland on Chicago's South Side.

1992 Led Chicago's Project Vote! push. This effort resulted in a record number of voter registrations, over 600,000 in Chicago.




Teaching

1993-2004 Visiting Law and Government Fellow, then Senior Lecturer, in Constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School.



Law Practice

1993-2002 Worked as an associate attorney with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland.



Illinois Senate 1996-2004

chairman, Health and Human Services Committee



United States Senate 2004-present

Member, Senate Foreign Relations Committee

Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs

Member, Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions

Member, Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

Member, Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs

[fitz207]

Nor is Obama qualified to be president.

Uh? Then please explain why millions of people all around the nation voted for him to become the Democratic Party's nominee for President. Do you follow the news? You know that voters had other choices including more seasoned Senators and at least one Governor.
Thank You! These people seem to forget that the presidency is an ELECTED POSITION.

[JanetElise]

Cool! People are quoting me on Hungangels!!!

Here is another video for your consideration....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=112KQfOuOcc





Nor is Obama qualified to be president.

Uh? Then please explain why millions of people all around the nation voted for him to become the Democratic Party's nominee for President. Do you follow the news? You know that voters had other choices including more seasoned Senators and at least one Governor.
Thank You! These people seem to forget that the presidency is an ELECTED POSITION.

[Realgirls4me]

Here is a nice little video to watch.

Keep in mind this is not Fox News.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EfUmrBeO_Xo&feature=related

You have got to be kidding?


No, it isn't Fox "News". Just another little subjective, highly partisan right-wing kook who fits the Fox News lemming demographic.

[JanetElise]

Sure but what has he done for you lately?

Paula Abdul

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z0h_c9eH-8




I'm so sick of hearing how Obama is not qualified for the job. Anyone who can read can tell, that he is more than qualified for job:

Undergraduate

Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA
Undergraduate, 1981-1983


Columbia University
B.A. Political Science with specialization in international relations
Thesis topic: Soviet nuclear disarmament

Graduate

Harvard Law School
J.D. magna cum laude 1988-1991

President, Harvard Law Review



Organizing

1983-1988 Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland on Chicago's South Side.

1992 Led Chicago's Project Vote! push. This effort resulted in a record number of voter registrations, over 600,000 in Chicago.




Teaching

1993-2004 Visiting Law and Government Fellow, then Senior Lecturer, in Constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School.



Law Practice

1993-2002 Worked as an associate attorney with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland.



Illinois Senate 1996-2004

chairman, Health and Human Services Committee



United States Senate 2004-present

Member, Senate Foreign Relations Committee

Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs

Member, Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions

Member, Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

Member, Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs

[JanetElise]

The man should have had his shit together, but he couldn't name
one accomplishment the man has made while in office.

I implore you to go out in the world and ask anyone who has voted for him just why they did and what accomplishments he has made while in office. The reactions you will get are somewhat frightening.



Here is a nice little video to watch.

Keep in mind this is not Fox News.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EfUmrBeO_Xo&feature=related

You have got to be kidding?


No, it isn't Fox "News". Just another little subjective, highly partisan right-wing kook who fits the Fox News lemming demographic.

[Quiet Reflections]

Yeah,

But at least the Elitist pricks that I vote for,

At least they don't forget how many HOUSES they own.

Lets see what the Obama's net worth is when he is 72.
i personally identify with the east coast liberal elite label but dont forget that rep. or dem. you must be a rich elitist to even be considered a viable candidate for any office. there has never been a broke uneducated person to hold a major office. even marion barry has a masters degree in chemistry and more than one home.

[JanetElise]

No problem. I am not flattered.




Cool! People are quoting me on Hungangels!!!

Don't flatter yourself. Your only response is to post a Youtube clip? Yea, goes to show you don't really understand American politics.

[Realgirls4me]

I implore you to go out in the world and ask anyone who has voted for him just why they did and what accomplishments he has made while in office. The reactions you will get are somewhat frightening.


What were Dubya's accomplishments before he took office? Better yet, what have been Bush's accomplishments since then? Yeah, let's continue to repeat the last eight years and drive this country down even further into oblivion.

... The same questions about experience were raised against JFK.

[JanetElise]

Don't make me start referring to Obama as Hussein. LOL






I implore you to go out in the world and ask anyone who has voted for him just why they did and what accomplishments he has made while in office. The reactions you will get are somewhat frightening.


What were Dubya's accomplishments before he took office? Better yet, what have been Bush's accomplishments since then? Yeah, let's continue to repeat the last eight years and drive this country down even further into oblivion.

... The same questions about experience were raised against JFK.

[Realgirls4me]

Let me guess, Janet? Like Otto, you're an objective "Independent"?


Yeah, sure you are.

[Realgirls4me]

Don't make me start referring to Obama as Hussein. LOL




And this will accomplish ... ???

[JanetElise]

Personally Realgirls4me I don't give two squirts of piss about who is president. These are just my opinons on the point at hand.

I am not racist but I know why a LOT of people voted for him.



Let me guess, Janet? Like Otto, you're an objective "Independent"?


Yeah, sure you are.

[fitz207]

Palin's Bio:

NAME: Sarah Heath Palin.

AGE-BIRTH DATE-LOCATION: 44; born Feb. 11, 1964; Sandpoint, Idaho.

EXPERIENCE: Alaska governor since December 2006; unsuccessful run for Republican nomination for lieutenant governor in 2002; chairwoman of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, 2003-2004; served two terms as Wasilla mayor and two terms on city council.

EDUCATION: Graduated University of Idaho, 1987, journalism.

FAMILY: Husband, Todd; five children.

BUSINESS: Worked as sports reporter for two Anchorage television stations; owned with her husband a snowmobile, watercraft, ATV business from 1994-97. Husband is a North Slope oil field worker.

No experience at the federal level, 0 foreign policy experience. Compare her "accomplishments". Obama might not have all the experience in the world. But it's a lot more than Palin's

[JanetElise]

Nothing. Just a little joke.




Don't make me start referring to Obama as Hussein. LOL




And this will accomplish ... ???

[salvador]

She's the enemy of everyone on this forum.

She's also a creationist who wants to indoctrinate innocent children with religious propaganda.

[JanetElise]

Alright kids I have done my damage here.

I am going back to checking out shemale cock!

[Beagle]

I implore you to go out in the world and ask anyone who has voted for him just why they did and what accomplishments he has made while in office. The reactions you will get are somewhat frightening.


What were Dubya's accomplishments before he took office? Better yet, what have been Bush's accomplishments since then? Yeah, let's continue to repeat the last eight years and drive this country down even further into oblivion.

... The same questions about experience were raised against JFK.

I could list some of Dubs accomplishments (and fuckups), but let's remember in case you haven't noticed... Obama isn't running against Bush. As much as the Dems keep trying to lump Bush and McCain together the more it's going to backfire. And just about election day we'll be treated to Oliver Stone's Bush bashing movie. It's a shame Michael Moore won't be releasing another movie as well. McCain is nothing like Bush and his choice of VP surely illustrates that.

Just remember, it was only 4 years ago that a lot of Dems were chompin at the bit to get McCain to run a Dem.

Obama's lack of accomplishments or credentials are a non-issue for many Dems because it doesn't matter to them. For most of the vocal Dems, it's always been about Bush, Cheney, Halliburton, Iraq, etc etc etc.

[Realgirls4me]

Personally Realgirls4me I don't give two squirts of piss about who is president. These are just my opinons on the point at hand.

I am not racist but I know why a LOT of people voted for him.

I don't know if you're a racist (To be a racist, one must exert power, so I doubt you are), but given what you have posted, you are ignorant, stupid, and now reveal yourself to be apathetic to boot. What was the "Hussein" reference about?

I also know why a lot of people in the south didn't vote for him.

[Realgirls4me]

I could list some of Dubs accomplishments (and fuckups), but let's remember in case you haven't noticed... Obama isn't running against Bush. As much as the Dems keep trying to lump Bush and McCain together as if the more it's going to backfire. And just about election day we'll be treated to Oliver Stone's Bush bashing movie. It's a shame Michael Moore won't be releasing another movie as well. McCain is nothing like Bush and his choice of VP surely illustrates that.

Just remember, it was only 4 years ago that a lot of Dems were chompin at the bit to get McCain to run a Dem.

Obama's accomplishments or credentials are a non-issue for many Dems because it doesn't matter to them. For most of the vocal Dems, it's always been about Bush, Cheney, Halliburton, Iraq, etc etc etc.

List his accomplishments, and I don't mean Dubya getting lucky at getting through a sentence without butchering it. After you have labored to list his accomplishments, take a deep breath and list how they match up against his monumental fuck-ups.
No, Obama is not running against Bush, just Bush redux. So Haliburton, Iraq, Katrina, aren't issues? Surely you jest?

[fitz207]

I am not racist but I know why a LOT of people voted for him
If you think Obama has made this far on "the black vote" you are very ignorant. News for you blacks vote for democratic like 88%. Racist democrats are the ones crossing over and voting for McCain just because he's the white guy. The majority of blacks wouldn't vote for a conservative just because they are black. Look at Michael Steele and Alan Keyes. They would vote for a white democrat over these guys.

Same for women. Women aren't going to vote for this Palin just because she's a women. McCain will lose if he thinks so. Look at her views on women's rights. There lame.

[PapaGrande]

why didn't obama pick hillary clinton i mean wtf she had the numbers,experience and she was a woman?



Because that would run CONTRARY to the CHANGE he's been espousing since, well.....forever.

Then there would be more calls for him being inconsistent and a flip flopper, thus losing the moderates, and thus losing the race in the end.

I'd still vote for him, but I would have even lost just a little respect for him had he gone with her.

I don't know if you understand this Legend, because you seem kinda young by some of your postings but:

Smart choice would have been to select Hillary Clinton.
Wise choice is NOT selecting Hillary Clinton.


Obviously, one is greater than the other.

So he picks Biden, the quintessential political insider, a guy who has spent 35 years living off those of us who work for a living. A guy who spent a whole 4 years of his life in the "real world". Biden is everything Obama is supposed to be against. OK maybe not everything, but the guy is politics as usual. I agree, Hilary is problematic for a number of reasons, and I understand why Obama wouldn't choose her. Of course if Obama loses there will be all kinds of second guessing from Democrats about Hilary, but between the two, I think Obama gives them the best chance to win.

BTW Obama will be called out for his flip flops on a number of issues such as public financing of his campaign, domestic wiretapping, off shore drilling, etc. Yes I know McCain has flip-flopped on a number of issues, but nobody is pretending he didn't, Obama supporters are the ones that think their guy can do no wrong.

This should have been a slam dunk for Democrats though, unpopular war, stagnant economy (although not nearly as bad as Dems want you to believe), very unpopular Republican president, I mean, Jesus the GOP was practically handing them the presidency on a silver platter. Leave it to Democrats to fuck up a good thing. I guess that is yet to be decided, but barring any October surprise it looks like this will be a very close election, hardly a ringing endorsement of Obama even if he does win.

Palin seems to help and hurt McCain in different areas. Diehard female Hilary supporters are not likely to switch to McCain, but give the guy some credit, that is not who they are after with Palin. The hope is to get some of the centrist Democrats, independents, and maybe some middle American women who might not have voted for anyone with Hilary out. I dont know if it will work, but given how close this looks now just picking up a fraction of these women might put McCain over the top. Obviously she is also supposed to re-assure right wing Jesus freaks who are uncomfortable with McCain, although that could backfire as these people maybe think women belong in the kitchen, not the White House :)

One thing I know is this certainly got more interesting, I fully expected McCain to pick Romney or someone "safe".

Im still not voting for either one of these clowns though. :lol:

P.S.
Most Americans are centrist, maybe slightly to the right or left, but overall we are a centrist nation. Go to ontheissues.org and look at McCain vs. Obama, McCain is much closer to the center than Obama. Much was made during the convention about how McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time, not sure what this really means since Bush is not in the Senate, but anyway we get the idea. But are you surprised that a Republican agrees with another Republican most of the time? Not only that but McCain has gone against the GOP on a number of critical issues, and has worked with Democrats, have you heard McCain-Feingold (campaign finance that became law), what about McCain-Lieberman (2003 bill to create a cap and trade system for greenhouse gasses) , remember McCain-Kennedy (immigration reform) that one nearly put him out of this election since the right wing was so pissed about his immigration plan. In fact all of these were hated by the right, which is some of the reasons they were so down on McCain to begin with. Also remember there was talk of McCain joining Kerry's ticket as VP in the last election.

Can you name one significant piece of legislation where Obama has gone against the Democratic party and worked with Republicans? Obama votes with the Democratic Party 100% of the time.

Sorry for the long winded posts, I have insomnia and all this talk about politics helps me pass the time.

[Beagle]

I am not racist but I know why a LOT of people voted for him.

I don't know if you're a racist (To be a racist, one must exert power, so I doubt you are).....



I've heard this "exert power" comment a lot. How that in order to be a racist one must have and/or exert power. I don't get it.

Isn't it enough to be a racist that you simply believe that race is the basis for traits, qualities and superiority? typically it involves making stereotypes based on race. Like Biden's racist comments about indian immigrants in all delaware 7-11s and dunkin donuts.

someone could be a powerless street bum and could still be a racist, no?

[fitz207]

why didn't obama pick hillary clinton i mean wtf she had the numbers,experience and she was a woman?



Because that would run CONTRARY to the CHANGE he's been espousing since, well.....forever.

Then there would be more calls for him being inconsistent and a flip flopper, thus losing the moderates, and thus losing the race in the end.

I'd still vote for him, but I would have even lost just a little respect for him had he gone with her.

I don't know if you understand this Legend, because you seem kinda young by some of your postings but:

Smart choice would have been to select Hillary Clinton.
Wise choice is NOT selecting Hillary Clinton.


Obviously, one is greater than the other.

So he picks Biden, the quintessential political insider, a guy who has spent 35 years living off those of us who work for a living. A guy who spent a whole 4 years of his life in the "real world". Biden is everything Obama is supposed to be against. OK maybe not everything, but the guy is politics as usual. I agree, Hilary is problematic for a number of reasons, and I understand why Obama wouldn't choose her. Of course if Obama loses there will be all kinds of second guessing from Democrats about Hilary, but between the two, I think Obama gives them the best chance to win.

BTW Obama will be called out for his flip flops on a number of issues such as public financing of his campaign, domestic wiretapping, off shore drilling, etc. Yes I know McCain has flip-flopped on a number of issues, but nobody is pretending he didn't, Obama supporters are the ones that think their guy can do no wrong.

This should have been a slam dunk for Democrats though, unpopular war, stagnant economy (although not nearly as bad as Dems want you to believe), very unpopular Republican president, I mean, Jesus the GOP was practically handing them the presidency on a silver platter. Leave it to Democrats to fuck up a good thing. I guess that is yet to be decided, but barring any October surprise it looks like this will be a very close election, hardly a ringing endorsement of Obama even if he does win.

Palin seems to help and hurt McCain in different areas. Diehard female Hilary supporters are not likely to switch to McCain, but give the guy some credit, that is not who they are after with Palin. The hope is to get some of the centrist Democrats, independents, and maybe some middle American women who might not have voted for anyone with Hilary out. I dont know if it will work, but given how close this looks now just picking up a fraction of these women might put McCain over the top. Obviously she is also supposed to re-assure right wing Jesus freaks who are uncomfortable with McCain, although that could backfire as these people maybe think women belong in the kitchen, not the White House :)

One thing I know is this certainly got more interesting, I fully expected McCain to pick Romney or someone "safe".

Im still not voting for either one of these clowns though. :lol:

P.S.
Most Americans are centrist, maybe slightly to the right or left, but overall we are a centrist nation. Go to ontheissues.org and look at McCain vs. Obama, McCain is much closer to the center than Obama. Much was made during the convention about how McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time, not sure what this really means since Bush is not in the Senate, but anyway we get the idea. But are you surprised that a Republican agrees with another Republican most of the time? Not only that but McCain has gone against the GOP on a number of critical issues, and has worked with Democrats, have you heard McCain-Feingold (campaign finance that became law), what about McCain-Lieberman (2003 bill to create a cap and trade system for greenhouse gasses) , remember McCain-Kennedy (immigration reform) that one nearly put him out of this election since the right wing was so pissed about his immigration plan. In fact all of these were hated by the right, which is some of the reasons they were so down on McCain to begin with. Also remember there was talk of McCain joining Kerry's ticket as VP in the last election.

Can you name one significant piece of legislation where Obama has gone against the Democratic party and worked with Republicans? Obama votes with the Democratic Party 100% of the time.

Sorry for the long winded posts, I have insomnia and all this talk about politics helps me pass the time.
You mean McCain WAS a centrist, not anymore and that's what counts. I find it funny that you conservatives keep calling Obama a liberal. But you never referred to HRC as one when goals are pretty much identical. Oh if noticed your buddy Bush is the biggest fuckup in the history of the U.S. You are out of touch with most americans by defending him and McCain. Joe Biden might be a Washington insider. But he is not a crook like McCain, that's the difference. Look at Biden's approval from his state. The people of arizona know McCain is a crook that's why Obama is running very close to him in his own state.

[fitz207]

I am not racist but I know why a LOT of people voted for him.

I don't know if you're a racist (To be a racist, one must exert power, so I doubt you are).....



I've heard this "exert power" comment a lot. How that in order to be a racist one must have and/or exert power. I don't get it.

Isn't it enough to be a racist that you simply believe that race is the basis for traits, qualities and superiority? typically it involves making stereotypes based on race. Like Biden's racist comments about indian immigrants in all delaware 7-11s and dunkin donuts.

someone could be a powerless street bum and could still be a racist, no?
And why didn't McCain vote for MLK day in Arizona again?

[Realgirls4me]

I've heard this "exert power" comment a lot. How that in order to be a racist one must have and/or exert power. I don't get it.

Isn't it enough to be a racist that you simply believe that race is the basis for traits, qualities and superiority? typically it involves making stereotypes based on race. Like Biden's racist comments about indian immigrants in all delaware 7-11s and dunkin donuts.

someone could be a powerless street bum and could still be a racist, no?

No. A street bum who measures another person by that person's race is just another ignorant bigot; not a racist. The owner of a plant who hires people based solely on their skin color is a racist -- his racism actually affects others. He has the power over whether they get the job or not. Jim Crow laws were racist because they exerted power over what and what not blacks could do, etc.

And please don't bring in Biden's Indian comment. What party in recent years has been more in tow with white supremest organizations than the Republican party? Biden's comment, or any by a younger Robert Byrd, were at least negated later by their actions. They made amends. Politicians such as Jesse Helms never did, neither did Strom Thurmond.

[Stoked]

"After ten years as a prominent Chicago politician and in his first year in the Senate, Obama got a $1.32 million loan below market rates without paying the normal extra fees — a rate which saved him $300 per month on his mortgage. Obama managed to do this despite the extraordinarily large mortgage and his lack of history with the lender"

Can you say sweetheart deal?

Joe Biden for VP... quintessential Washington insider

His association with Antoin Rezko for 18 years... on trial in Federal corruption court for demanding kickbacks for doing business with the Illinois governor and in another case on trial for shaking down a Hollywood producer to the tune of $1.5 million for a political donation to the same governor.

His association for years as a parishioner and desciple and friend of the racist Reverend Wright...

Obama is nothing about change.

Oh wait, he is. He wants to talk to the terrorists and open up a dialogue. So I guess when he asks Iran to play nice and stop building nuclear bombs they will see the error of their ways and acquiesce? And when he outlaws guns here in this country all the thugs and gang members will turn their guns in and we will sleep better?

Drink your Koolaid libs..

[Realgirls4me]

"After ten years as a prominent Chicago politician and in his first year in the Senate, Obama got a $1.32 million loan below market rates without paying the normal extra fees — a rate which saved him $300 per month on his mortgage. Obama managed to do this despite the extraordinarily large mortgage and his lack of history with the lender"

Can you say sweetheart deal?

Joe Biden for VP... quintessential Washington insider

His association with Antoin Rezko for 18 years... on trial in Federal corruption court for demanding kickbacks for doing business with the Illinois governor and in another case on trial for shaking down a Hollywood producer to the tune of $1.5 million for a political donation to the same governor.

His association for years as a parishioner and desciple and friend of the racist Reverend Wright...

Obama is nothing about change.

Oh wait, he is. He wants to talk to the terrorists and open up a dialogue. So I guess when he asks Iran to play nice and stop building nuclear bombs they will see the error of their ways and acquiesce? And when he outlaws guns here in this country all the thugs and gang members will turn their guns in and we will sleep better?

Drink your Koolaid libs..

I'm too tired to take apart your slop piece by pathetic piece, Paranoid Jane, so I'll make it easy on you: Cite one credible source where Obama says he's outlawing guns? Just one.

[Fox]

All I know is I damn sure don't want another sequel in what could be a piss-poor trilogy.

[Stoked]

His position is all over the place which means only one thing for an ultra liberal... the eventual ban of all handguns. You may want to take special note that he believes that state or local government has the right to supersede the constitution... just the kind of socialist we need running this country.

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

[Stoked]

All I know is I damn sure don't want another sequel in what could be a piss-poor trilogy.

Oh my gosh Fox... I am soooo sorry, didnt anybody tell you? George Bush isn't running in this election.

[Realgirls4me]

His position is all over the place which means only one thing for an ultra liberal... the eventual ban of all handguns. You may want to take special note that he believes that state or local government has the right to supersede the constitution... just the kind of socialist we need running this country.

No, no, no, no, no, my paranoid gun nut "friend". I asked you to provide one site or citation where he actually states he is for the banning of guns. I didn't ask you to infer from a Q&A page as you did or provide me with your weak little opinion. I asked you basically to support -- show proof -- your claim that Barack Obama will ban guns. And did you happen to miss the latest CONSERVATIVE Supreme Court decision on allowing some leeway to states and other municipalities as they deem fit, and where, pray tell, did you acquire that gift of extrapolation? I mean, from just those few questions you were able to morph the answers to fit your paranoid closed little mind and biases? How do you right-wing whack jobs do that?

Do you even know what a Socialist is?

[Buzz]

...if sarah palin isnt qualified then why is obama qualified. she's held more public offices than he has. she's actually done things too.

Alright then, let's take a look at what Palin did while in public office.

Sarah Palin left the finances of her town Wasilla in tatters when she moved on in 2002. She wanted a legacy as mayor, it seems, and pushed hard for the town to build a hyper-expensive sports complex. But Palin screwed the process up badly. Instead of buying the land for the complex when it was offered, her administration allowed a developer named Gary Lundgren to snap it up. Then Wasilla tried to seize the land from Lundgren through eminent domain. In the end, what with court costs Wasilla paid at least $ 1.7 million for land it could have bought for less than one tenth that sum - if the purchase had been handled properly. For this incompetence, Wasilla is still paying a steep price: higher taxes and cutbacks in services. In other words Palin is about as efficient as Michael Brown, onetime head of FEMA.

Link to sources and more details here. (http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/29/183255/841/290/579394)

Saying that Obama has no "executive" accomplishments is a republican framing tactic. Look at Obama's accomplishments (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/21/164117/783) while in the US Senate. Using the word "executive" is a framing tactic to make all accomplishments as a legislator irrelevant. They are not.

[dave252]

Gov Palin is an outstanding choice. Why do we believe only Washington insiders and lifelong politicians are capable of being pres or vp? These people are not better than you or myself, they are not smarter than everyone. This is the kind of pick Obama should have made.

[Stoked]

No, no, no, no, no, my paranoid gun nut "friend". I asked you to provide one site or citation where he actually states he is for the banning of guns. I didn't ask you to infer from a Q&A page as you did or provide me with your weak little opinion. I asked you basically to support -- show proof -- your claim that Barack Obama will ban guns. And did you happen to miss the latest CONSERVATIVE Supreme Court decision on allowing some leeway to states and other municipalities as they deem fit, and where, pray tell, did you acquire that gift of extrapolation? I mean, from just those few questions you were able to morph the answers to fit your paranoid closed little mind and biases? How do you right-wing whack jobs do that?

"I asked you to provide one site or citation where he actually states he is for the banning of guns."

I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you could read ... i guess not so i will quote

35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

and again...

"We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure".

EVERYONE knows politicians talks out of both sides of their mouth, and the truth lies in his own political belief. Gun control in practice, is the banning of guns.

Your semantic games for debate are sophomoric, especially when speaking of politicians.

As of the end of June, the conservative, thank GOD, Supreme court struck down the gun ban in Washington DC saying citizens had the right to own guns. Period

Speaking of extrapolation... you took the minority dissenting opinion of a liberal supreme court justice and have subversively tried, unbeknownst to the readers here, to make it the opinion of the conservative and majority court. Nice try, but dishonest and, frankly, scary. And just clear things up a bit, your "revelation" of leeway applies only to the dissenting opinion.

In reality, this is the first time in 200 years a Supreme court decision was rendered on the right for individuals to own guns. The 2nd amendment was upheld unanimously. Because of this decision, the right to bear arms is stronger today than ever, regardless of the dissenting opinion.. And personally... I freakin love that.

I am so excited, I may just rejoin the NRA...

[yodajazz]

His position is all over the place which means only one thing for an ultra liberal... the eventual ban of all handguns. You may want to take special note that he believes that state or local government has the right to supersede the constitution... just the kind of socialist we need running this country.

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

I hope that you may come to realize that your arguments make no logical sense. No state or local government has the right to supercede the US Constitution. If jurisdictions make laws which violate the constitution, and individuals or groups have a right to question it in court, until a decision is made on the issue. Obama’s position on gun control, as you state it would be considered a “states rights”, or a ‘community rights’ position. At one time state’s rights, used to be at the center of the conservative agenda. Yet when a man like Obama advocates the same position, he is labeled a socialist by some people.

But your post brings me to another issue. I notice that some people like you resort to labeling, or name calling, rather than discuss issues. Saying words like ‘liberal’ or ‘socialist’ really don’t define much in today’s society. But they have been branded as code words to keep people from exploring subtleties of important issues, such as health care. Obama addressed this tendency of name calling in his acceptance speech. In the past eight years people who question whether a government policy is effective, are called names, like ‘America bashers’. I agree with Obama when he says this is the time to debate public policies, not name calling.

"Stoked", I challenge you to either define your terms “ultra liberal” and “socialist”, or to discuss any issue in depth. But it is not possible for any one man, not even the president, to ban handguns. Have you studied government at all? Do you know that our government has three branches? I believe that the rumor that, ‘Obama is going to take away our guns’, is just a way use fear to manipulate people. It is just another way to divert attention from wasting 1 trillion dollars of public money, and unleashing the forces which have killed 100,000 plus, people.

[yodajazz]

Stoked
I will give you some credit, for trying do discuss something, rather than just name calling in your last post. But…

I challenge your statement “Gun control in practice, is the banning of guns.” It sounds like you are saying that anything other than allowing everyone free access to all guns at all times is banning guns? There are government regulations on all sorts of activities, such as driving motor vehicles, voting, buying cigarettes, marriage, etc. The list is endless. Are any of these activities in the process of being banned? In all of those activities, there are minimum requirements needed for government approval. But you are in essence saying that elementary school students should be allowed to carry assault weapons. What about prison inmates? Your statement doesn’t make common sense when examined in depth.

[Galadriel]

Here is a nice little video to watch.

Keep in mind this is not Fox News.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EfUmrBeO_Xo&feature=related

You have got to be kidding?


No, it isn't Fox "News". Just another little subjective, highly partisan right-wing kook who fits the Fox News lemming demographic.

RealGirls, Chris Matthews is far from that description...


I'm pretty sure Matthews was a die-hard Clinton supporter. Some might still label that as 'right-wing' lol (she is to the right of Obama anyways), but regardless I think that is his position.

[mugiwara]

You gotta love McCain. He knows the American people don't want two senators getting on the job training for running their country (Democrats seem not to understand this), so him going for a governor was an obvious choice.

He could have gone for the conventional safe choice that would shore up the base. Lieberman was only a possibility if he needed to throw a hail mary at this point, but running neck and neck McCain only needs to shore up the conservative base. Romney was an obvious choice, but McCain clearly despises Mitt so that was a no go. Tim Polente seemed a good safe choice, but surely wouldn't get anyone talking. Instead, McCain went with the young conservative woman. She shores up the base and will assuredly peel off a fair amount of those Hillary voters who are still on the fence about Obama. Was it a political move? No question there, but you have to make the moves that will give you the best chance of winning. Over the last 6 weeks or so McCain has shown he understands what the right political moves are while Obama has been floundering.

What does picking Palin say about McCain? It says John McCain runs his campaign. It's been decades since we've seen a major party presidential candidate actually be the one who calls the shots, and I must say I find it very refreshing.

The real question here is how will the Democrats respond? They is no way they were ready for this one, and John McCain knew it. The Dems were gearing up for attacking the typical white male conservative, and McCain threw a wrench in. It's not surprising that the Dem knee jerk reaction is to say she's inexperienced. While this will work with the already Obama faithful, the rest of us understand that she is at least as experienced a politician as Obama (she has held elected office longer than him), and the American people would much rather have the inexperienced candidate learning as a number 2 than leading as the number 1.

A friend of mine bet me a couple of weeks ago that his guy Obama was going to win. I accepted his bet and made an additional bet that McCain would win at least 43 states. After yesterday my friend conceded that I would probably win both bets and he even said he's now considering voting for McCain. Fickle, yes; A bellweather representation of the American electorate as a whole, you better believe it.

BTW I am not voting for McCain or Obama unless the state of New York becomes close in the polls (alert to the Obama people who have essentially ignored the safe state of New York: Your poll numbers here have been on a steady decline and the state is less 'safe' everyday). Third party candidates offer up so much more substance so I'm happy to cast my vote for a deserving candidate so long as my vote doesn't matter in my state.

[Galadriel]

"After ten years as a prominent Chicago politician and in his first year in the Senate, Obama got a $1.32 million loan below market rates without paying the normal extra fees — a rate which saved him $300 per month on his mortgage. Obama managed to do this despite the extraordinarily large mortgage and his lack of history with the lender"

Can you say sweetheart deal?



Are you fucking kidding me? Do you have any clue how much money Cheney made from the fact that Halliburton was awarded billions of dollars in no-bid contracts in Iraq? You know he kept a significant portion of his stock with the company... he made money off a war and your talking about this mortage thing? What a joke.

[mugiwara]

Here is a nice little video to watch.

Keep in mind this is not Fox News.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EfUmrBeO_Xo&feature=related

You have got to be kidding?


No, it isn't Fox "News". Just another little subjective, highly partisan right-wing kook who fits the Fox News lemming demographic.

RealGirls, Chris Matthews is far from that description...


I'm pretty sure Matthews was a die-hard Clinton supporter. Some might still label that as 'right-wing' lol (she is to the right of Obama anyways), but regardless I think that is his position.
Chris Matthews was the one who, immediately following the Obama speech defending Reverend Wright, said it sent shivers up his leg and that the speech is the most important speech on race ever given and should be required viewing in every high school across the country. Non-partisan journalism at its best...

[amparoto]

She kinda looks like a television sex expert psychologist. Like ya call into the show and ask questions and she gives sex advise. I guess its those glasses that make me think that.

[Galadriel]

A friend of mine bet me a couple of weeks ago that his guy Obama was going to win. I accepted his bet and made an additional bet that McCain would win at least 43 states. After yesterday my friend conceded that I would probably win both bets and he even said he's now considering voting for McCain. Fickle, yes; A bellweather representation of the American electorate as a whole, you better believe it.



You're a moron. McCain has no chance of winning of New York. 43 states? What planet are you living on??

[mugiwara]

A friend of mine bet me a couple of weeks ago that his guy Obama was going to win. I accepted his bet and made an additional bet that McCain would win at least 43 states. After yesterday my friend conceded that I would probably win both bets and he even said he's now considering voting for McCain. Fickle, yes; A bellweather representation of the American electorate as a whole, you better believe it.



You're a moron. McCain has no chance of winning of New York. 43 states? What planet are you living on??I study politics very closely. You'll be eating those words in two months buddy

[Buzz]

This is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKULb2JLDJs) of Bill Maher last night about Sarah Palin. Absolutely hilarious.
Like VP Cheney shooting his hunting buddy in the face, comedy writers have just been handed a treasure of new material. Thanks John!
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2006/0831/20060831_073156_maher_400.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKULb2JLDJs)

[mugiwara]

A friend of mine bet me a couple of weeks ago that his guy Obama was going to win. I accepted his bet and made an additional bet that McCain would win at least 43 states.

Mugiwara,

Very interesting post. So besides Illinois and Delaware, what are the other five states Obama-Biden will win?I would say Cali and probably Washington state are locks. The rest will probably be a smattering of Northeast states. Vermont is a lock, New York is probable, he might pick up one or two others. I don't see him having a chance in any other part of the country.

Honestly, when I made that bet it was more about making it interesting because I've been pretty confident that McCain will win. However, with Obama snubbing Clinton and McCain going for Palin it makes my bet much more likely to succeed.

The media will now try and explain why Palin is a risky choice and may sink McCain, but you have to realize that one, the major media outlets have made it very obvious they are trying to get Obama elected, and two, they can't outright say the race is over because they need a storyline for the next two months. But rest assured this race is over, the only question left is how badly will Barack lose

[mugiwara]

A friend of mine bet me a couple of weeks ago that his guy Obama was going to win. I accepted his bet and made an additional bet that McCain would win at least 43 states.

Mugiwara,

Very interesting post. So besides Illinois and Delaware, what are the other five states Obama-Biden will win?I would say Cali and probably Washington state are locks. The rest will probably be a smattering of Northeast states. Vermont is a lock, New York is probable, he might pick up one or two others. I don't see him having a chance in any other part of the country.

Well, you must no something that others are missing.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/
Hey, I'm not gonna argue with that map, but Obama has consistently trended downwards since securing the nomination. Also, while I hate to say it, there is precedent that shows that people will say they will vote for the black guy to a pollster, but pull the lever for the white guy in the privacy of the voting booth. I personally think Obama's actual numbers are a few percentage points lower than is being reported, but hey, maybe I'm wrong and racism has been completely eliminated in this country.

Anyway, as I said, trends are the thing you need to pay attention to. Obama limped across the finish line and has done nothing to energize his supporters, let alone the all important independents to rally around him. McCain hasn't done a great job at this point of energizing anyone either, but has done a fantastic job of getting people to question Obama, which has added to the downward trend. This Palin pick has already energized the Republican base and is getting the independents talking. I predict that map will begin to turn more red over the next few weeks.

[Stoked]

Stoked
I will give you some credit, for trying do discuss something, rather than just name calling in your last post. But…

I challenge your statement “Gun control in practice, is the banning of guns.” It sounds like you are saying that anything other than allowing everyone free access to all guns at all times is banning guns? There are government regulations on all sorts of activities, such as driving motor vehicles, voting, buying cigarettes, marriage, etc. The list is endless. Are any of these activities in the process of being banned? In all of those activities, there are minimum requirements needed for government approval. But you are in essence saying that elementary school students should be allowed to carry assault weapons. What about prison inmates? Your statement doesn’t make common sense when examined in depth.

Lets see now, Chicago, Washington DC and the great state of Hawaii takes away the right for ANY CITIZEN to own a gun. That is a ban, not a restriction.

Say... I dont see you posting to others about name calling, why is that?

[CORVETTEDUDE]

Stoked
I will give you some credit, for trying do discuss something, rather than just name calling in your last post. But…

I challenge your statement “Gun control in practice, is the banning of guns.” It sounds like you are saying that anything other than allowing everyone free access to all guns at all times is banning guns? There are government regulations on all sorts of activities, such as driving motor vehicles, voting, buying cigarettes, marriage, etc. The list is endless. Are any of these activities in the process of being banned? In all of those activities, there are minimum requirements needed for government approval. But you are in essence saying that elementary school students should be allowed to carry assault weapons. What about prison inmates? Your statement doesn’t make common sense when examined in depth.

Lets see now, Chicago, Washington DC and the great state of Hawaii takes away the right for ANY CITIZEN to own a gun. That is a ban, not a restriction.

Say... I dont see you posting to others about name calling, why is that?


You may not be aware but, Wash, D.C. recently rescended their ban.

[yodajazz]

"After ten years as a prominent Chicago politician and in his first year in the Senate, Obama got a $1.32 million loan below market rates without paying the normal extra fees — a rate which saved him $300 per month on his mortgage. Obama managed to do this despite the extraordinarily large mortgage and his lack of history with the lender"

Can you say sweetheart deal?



Are you fucking kidding me? Do you have any clue how much money Cheney made from the fact that Halliburton was awarded billions of dollars in no-bid contracts in Iraq? You know he kept a significant portion of his stock with the company... he made money off a war and your talking about this mortage thing? What a joke.

I agree with you Galadriel, except I would use the word criminal instead of joke. And I would include murder in the crimes. The taking of human life, except in self defense is murder. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Their estimate of civillian deaths cause by the conflict is 86,000 to 94,000. But others put the numbers as much higher. Repugs want to make this election about whether Obama is wearing a flag pin, or a retired preacher who is going senile. The fact that we can ignore the deaths of innocent people does not shield us from consequences. The image of the US has suffered world wide under Republican leadership. McCain was right up there with them, saying "Bagdad" next, when none of the highjackers were from Iraq.

While people like Stoked are focusing on Obama saving $300 a month on his mortgage, at least one trillion dollars of our money has been mis-spent on this "unholy war". The Repubs in congress have been threatening to fillibuster to prevent tax incentives from being taken away from the oil companies.
That and the fact that the department of Defense cannot account for trillions, yes trillions of dollars that it has spent. Yet some people want to focus on whether Obama had his hand over his heart during the national anthem. We the people, deserve better than these lowroad distractions.

[Stoked]

Stoked
I will give you some credit, for trying do discuss something, rather than just name calling in your last post. But…

I challenge your statement “Gun control in practice, is the banning of guns.” It sounds like you are saying that anything other than allowing everyone free access to all guns at all times is banning guns? There are government regulations on all sorts of activities, such as driving motor vehicles, voting, buying cigarettes, marriage, etc. The list is endless. Are any of these activities in the process of being banned? In all of those activities, there are minimum requirements needed for government approval. But you are in essence saying that elementary school students should be allowed to carry assault weapons. What about prison inmates? Your statement doesn’t make common sense when examined in depth.

Lets see now, Chicago, Washington DC and the great state of Hawaii takes away the right for ANY CITIZEN to own a gun. That is a ban, not a restriction.

Say... I dont see you posting to others about name calling, why is that?


You may not be aware but, Wash, D.C. recently rescended their ban.

True, because that is where it was challenged and that challenge was the
reason for the Supreme Court decision upholding the right to own firearms. It certainly was not by their choice.

We will see death and crimes rates involving guns going down in the future there.

[Stoked]

"After ten years as a prominent Chicago politician and in his first year in the Senate, Obama got a $1.32 million loan below market rates without paying the normal extra fees — a rate which saved him $300 per month on his mortgage. Obama managed to do this despite the extraordinarily large mortgage and his lack of history with the lender"

Can you say sweetheart deal?



Are you fucking kidding me? Do you have any clue how much money Cheney made from the fact that Halliburton was awarded billions of dollars in no-bid contracts in Iraq? You know he kept a significant portion of his stock with the company... he made money off a war and your talking about this mortage thing? What a joke.

I agree with you Galadriel, except I would use the word criminal instead of joke. And I would include murder in the crimes. The taking of human life, except in self defense is murder. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Their estimate of civillian deaths cause by the conflict is 86,000 to 94,000. But others put the numbers as much higher. Repugs want to make this election about whether Obama is wearing a flag pin, or a retired preacher who is going senile. The fact that we can ignore the deaths of innocent people does not shield us from consequences. The image of the US has suffered world wide under Republican leadership. McCain was right up there with them, saying "Bagdad" next, when none of the highjackers were from Iraq.

While people like Stoked are focusing on Obama saving $300 a month on his mortgage, at least one trillion dollars of our money has been mis-spent on this "unholy war". The Repubs in congress have been threatening to fillibuster to prevent tax incentives from being taken away from the oil companies.
That and the fact that the department of Defense cannot account for trillions, yes trillions of dollars that it has spent. Yet some people want to focus on whether Obama had his hand over his heart during the national anthem. We the people, deserve better than these lowroad distractions.

You are so right, whatever was I thinking. If Obama Biden takes office, he will have a dialogue asking Osama Bin Laden and his terrorists to(oops, i am name calling again) turn themselves in for taking the lives of innocent people around the world, and most of the 90,000 dubious civilian casualties you state. All radical muslims will embrace this new idea and cease their willy ways.

[Stoked]

"After ten years as a prominent Chicago politician and in his first year in the Senate, Obama got a $1.32 million loan below market rates without paying the normal extra fees — a rate which saved him $300 per month on his mortgage. Obama managed to do this despite the extraordinarily large mortgage and his lack of history with the lender"

Can you say sweetheart deal?



Are you fucking kidding me? Do you have any clue how much money Cheney made from the fact that Halliburton was awarded billions of dollars in no-bid contracts in Iraq? You know he kept a significant portion of his stock with the company... he made money off a war and your talking about this mortage thing? What a joke.

NObama's platform position is change... change, change, change... how is accepting sweetheart deals change?

mmmm drink more Koolaid

[beatmaker]

Racist? Please Explain. You mean racist like Joe Biden and his racist comments about Indian immigrants?

As far as being an Elitist, I think Obama has that sewn up. Him and his 1.65 million dollar house that was set up by that Rezko crook.

Just like his temper problem, McCain has been said by Senate insiders to tell racist and sexist jokes all the time. This guy called his wife Cindy a "cunt" in public and cheated on his first wife, while she was battling a serious illness with other women (remember Newt Gingrich), including Cindy McCain, who he eventually married.

As far as Barack being an elitist, give me a fuchin break. I guarantee most U.S Senators live in homes worth over 1 million dollars. The Clintons own several million dollars properties. Barack Obama's family net worth is about 4 million dollars (which according to John McCain only makes the Obama family upper middle class, since they're below the 5 million dollar "you're wealthy" baseline McCain mentioned in an interview). John and Cindy McCain's net worth is around $150 million. Mitt Romney's is a little more than that and the Clintons are well over 50 million. So spare me the elitist bullshyt. I'm not a Republican, but I can admit that Gov. Sarah Palin is no elitist, from the interviews I've heard so far. Her husband still works in the oil industry in Alaska, as a "sloper" which is a quasi-blue collar position. I deal in truth, not partisan bullshyt. I profoundly disagree with her Ronald Reagan-esque views on government, as I witnessed first hand living in NYC the devastation wrought in poor communities of color during the 80's as a child and the "Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous" life of the Wall Street crowd of the 80's. Barack is 100% right, Trickle-Down economics or the "Ownership Society" is a bullshyt premise the GOP uses to keep the upper 5% in power and drowning in wealth.

BEAGLE, ELITIST DON'T QUIT HIGH PAYING, CUSHY LAW FIRM JOBS LIKE BARACK AND MICHELLE DID, WITH THOUSANDS IN STUDENT LOANS HANGING OVER THEIR HEADS TO WORK IN THE POOREST PARTS OF INNER CITY CHICAGO, AS COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS. I FIRMLY BELIEVE THIS ELITIST NONSENSE ONLY GETS TRACTION AMONGST IDIOTS BECAUSE BARACK IS A MAN OF COLOR. FOR A WHITE MAN TO GET THE ELITIST TITLE, HE'D HAVE TO WORTH WAY MORE THAN BARACK, BE A MEMBER OF SKULLS & BONES OR SOME OTHER SECRET SOCIETY AND LOOK DOWN ON POOR PEOPLE VEHEMENTLY. JOHN MCCAIN DOESN'T EVEN REMEMBER HOW MANY HOMES HE AND CINDY OWNS, BUT HE'S NOT AN ELITIST, JUST BECAUSE HE IS A FORMER POW & WAR VETERAN (as he told David Letterman).

BEAGLE, STOP LISTENENING TO A-HOLES LIKE SEAN HANNITY AND RUSH LIMBAUGH, WHO ARE THE REAL ELITIST. THEY'RE POLITICAL IDEOLOGY ONLY SERVICES THE RICH, BUT THEY'RE QUICK TO TALK ABOUT GOOD, HARD WORKING AMERICANS, AS LONG AS THEIR RICH ASSES GET TAX BREAKS UP THE KAZOO. SOME DEMOCRATS ARE NO BETTER AND I"M A DEMOCRAT. B.S IS B.S, BECAUSE IT STINKS NO MATTER WHO SAYS IT.

[southerncalisurfer]

McCain put his wife in a titty contest, holla!

[Buzz]

BEAGLE, ELITIST DON'T QUIT HIGH PAYING, CUSHY LAW FIRM JOBS LIKE BARACK AND MICHELLE DID, WITH THOUSANDS IN STUDENT LOANS HANGING OVER THEIR HEADS TO WORK IN THE POOREST PARTS OF INNER CITY CHICAGO, AS COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS. I FIRMLY BELIEVE THIS ELITIST NONSENSE ONLY GETS TRACTION AMONGST IDIOTS BECAUSE BARACK IS A MAN OF COLOR. FOR A WHITE MAN TO GET THE ELITIST TITLE, HE'D HAVE TO WORTH WAY MORE THAN BARACK, BE A MEMBER OF SKULLS & BONES OR SOME OTHER SECRET SOCIETY AND LOOK DOWN ON POOR PEOPLE VEHEMENTLY. JOHN MCCAIN DOESN'T EVEN REMEMBER HOW MANY HOMES HE AND CINDY OWNS, BUT HE'S NOT AN ELITIST, JUST BECAUSE HE IS A FORMER POW & WAR VETERAN (as he told David Letterman).

Amen on that. "Elitist" is the republican code word for "uppity". And you know where they're going with that...

[yodajazz]

You are so right, whatever was I thinking. If Obama Biden takes office, he will have a dialogue asking Osama Bin Laden and his terrorists to(oops, i am name calling again) turn themselves in for taking the lives of innocent people around the world, and most of the 90,000 dubious civilian casualties you state. All radical muslims will embrace this new idea and cease their willy ways.

According to one source, radical Muslims represent 10 percent of all Muslims. Effective dialogue will help to isolate the radical faction, or at least neutralize some support of people who may lean that way. And I am including religious dialogue between Christian Muslims and Jews. The Koran like, like the Bible has many passages which speak against the taking of human life and the humane treatment of people. It also speaks of war and battle, because that is what the secular culture did a lot of at that time. So which ideas are emphasized has to do with choices which comes mostly from religious leadership down to individual people.

But the killing of innocent people, non combatants, serves to make more enemies from the 90 non radical faction. Those 10 percent are spread out in various nations, so you can’t shoot or bomb your way out of the problem. If Osama Bin Laden is responsible for 9/11, his goal would have been for the US to strike out blindly at all Muslims, proving his view that the US hates all Muslims. Attacking Iraq was exactly the wrong thing to do, since they had nothing to do with 9/11.

It has been pointed out that giving radicals a legitimate political and economic opportunities, like real jobs has been the most effective way to combat radical movements. An example would be Hamas, in Palestine who are now negotiating a peace agreement with Israel. The more stake they have in the process, the more it is in their interest to suppress the military faction. Israel’s strategy of ‘targeted assassinations’ was not effective because it killed many innocent non combatants and just radicalized potential neutral people.

Still I’m not saying that force should never be used. I’m saying intelligent strategy means fighting ideas, with principles (ideas), and force with force. Intelligent strategy means courting allies and reducing enemies by dividing them from potential friends. Ideas are an important tool. This is even the subject of a chapter in the 9/11 report.

I wrote a song about peace. The first line goes: “A bomb can’t change a word of the Koran”. That is a variation of a passage from the Koran that I heard from a Muslim. That is saying what I said above fight ideas with ideas. Truth is truth, wherever you find it.

But speaking of the truth, I’m sure that there are people in the current Republican administration who understand this. The truth is that is really was about the control of oil. The plan was put forth before 9/11 by the “Project for a New American Century” group.

We are over in somebody elses country with guns, tanks, etc. for them it is a life and death issue. Though we virtually ignore it, innocent people have been killed. Isn't this more important than Barrack Obama saving $300 dollar a month on his mortgage?

[Buzz]

Still I’m not saying that force should never be used. I’m saying intelligent strategy means fighting ideas, with principles (ideas), and force with force. Intelligent strategy means courting allies and reducing enemies by dividing them from potential friends. Ideas are an important tool. This is even the subject of a chapter in the 9/11 report.
Yodajazz, the important defense think-tank The Rand Corporation, which is hardly a dovish organization, agrees with you in a recent recommendation to the US government.

August 1, 2008

Current U.S. strategy against the terrorist group al Qaida has not been successful in significantly undermining the group’s capabilities, according to a new RAND Corporation study issued today.

Al Qaida has been involved in more terrorist attacks since Sept. 11, 2001, than it was during its prior history and the group’s attacks since then have spanned an increasingly broader range of targets in Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa, according to researchers.

In looking at how other terrorist groups have ended, the RAND study found that most terrorist groups end either because they join the political process, or because local police and intelligence efforts arrest or kill key members. Police and intelligence agencies, rather than the military, should be the tip of the spear against al Qaida in most of the world, and the United States should abandon the use of the phrase “war on terrorism,” researchers concluded.

“The United States cannot conduct an effective long-term counterterrorism campaign against al Qaida or other terrorist groups without understanding how terrorist groups end,” said Seth Jones, the study’s lead author and a political scientist at RAND, a nonprofit research organization. “In most cases, military force isn’t the best instrument.”

The comprehensive study analyzes 648 terrorist groups that existed between 1968 and 2006, drawing from a terrorism database maintained by RAND and the Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism. The most common way that terrorist groups end — 43 percent — was via a transition to the political process. However, the possibility of a political solution is more likely if the group has narrow goals, rather than a broad, sweeping agenda like al Qaida possesses.

The second most common way that terrorist groups end — 40 percent — was through police and intelligence services either apprehending or killing the key leaders of these groups. Policing is especially effective in dealing with terrorists because police have a permanent presence in cities that enables them to efficiently gather information, Jones said.

Military force was effective in only 7 percent of the cases examined; in most instances, military force is too blunt an instrument to be successful against terrorist groups, although it can be useful for quelling insurgencies in which the terrorist groups are large, well-armed and well-organized, according to researchers. In a number of cases, the groups end because they become splintered, with members joining other groups or forming new factions. Terrorist groups achieved victory in only 10 percent of the cases studied.

Jones says the study has crucial implications for U.S. strategy in dealing with al Qaida and other terrorist groups. Since al Qaida’s goal is the establishment of a pan-Islamic caliphate, a political solution or negotiated settlement with governments in the Middle East is highly unlikely. The terrorist organization also has made numerous enemies and does not enjoy the kind of mass support received by other organizations such as Hezbollah in Lebanon, largely because al Qaida has not engaged in sponsoring any welfare services, medical clinics, or hospitals.

The study recommends the United States should adopt a two-front strategy: rely on policing and intelligence work to root out the terrorist leaders in Europe, North America, Asia and the Middle East, and involve military force — though not necessarily the U.S. military — when insurgencies are involved.

The United States also should avoid the use of the term, “war on terror,” and replace it with the term “counterterrorism.” Nearly every U.S. ally, including the United Kingdom and Australia, has stopped using “war on terror,” and Jones said it’s more than a mere matter of semantics.

“The term we use to describe our strategy toward terrorists is important, because it affects what kinds of forces you use,” Jones said. “Terrorists should be perceived and described as criminals, not holy warriors, and our analysis suggests that there is no battlefield solution to terrorism.”

Among the other findings, the study notes:

* Religious terrorist groups take longer to eliminate than other groups. Since 1968, approximately 62 percent of all terrorist groups have ended, while only 32 percent of religious terrorist groups have done so.
* No religious terrorist group has achieved victory since 1968.
* Size is an important predictor of a groups’ fate. Large groups of more than 10,000 members have been victorious more than 25 percent of the time, while victory is rare when groups are smaller than 1,000 members.
* There is no statistical correlation between the duration of a terrorist group and ideological motivation, economic conditions, regime type or the breadth of terrorist goals.
* Terrorist groups that become involved in an insurgency do not end easily. Nearly 50 percent of the time they end with a negotiated settlement with the government, 25 percent of the time they achieved victory and 19 percent of the time, military groups defeated them.
* Terrorist groups from upper-income countries are much more likely to be left-wing or nationalistic, and much less likely to be motivated by religion.

“The United States has the necessary instruments to defeat al Qaida, it just needs to shift its strategy and keep in mind that terrorist groups are not eradicated overnight,” Jones said.

The study, “How Terrorist Groups End: Lessons for Countering al Qaida,” can be found at www.rand.org.

The report was prepared by the RAND National Defense Research Institute, a federally funded research and development center that does research for the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the Joint Staff, the unified commands and other defense agencies.
More at http://www.nwotruth.com/us-should-rethink-war-on-terrorism-strategy-to-deal-with-resurgent-al-qaida/
and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kovalik/rand-corp----war-on-terro_b_116107.html
and http://www.economist.com/world/international/displayStory.cfm?story_id=11950796
and directly from The Rand Corporation http://wwwcgi.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2008/RAND_MG741-1.sum.pdf

Thanks also for your other rational and well-informed comments in this thread. I've been enjoying reading them.

[Stoked]

Racist? Please Explain. You mean racist like Joe Biden and his racist comments about Indian immigrants?

As far as being an Elitist, I think Obama has that sewn up. Him and his 1.65 million dollar house that was set up by that Rezko crook.

Just like his temper problem, McCain has been said by Senate insiders to tell racist and sexist jokes all the time. This guy called his wife Cindy a "cunt" in public and cheated on his first wife, while she was battling a serious illness with other women (remember Newt Gingrich), including Cindy McCain, who he eventually married.

As far as Barack being an elitist, give me a fuchin break. I guarantee most U.S Senators live in homes worth over 1 million dollars. The Clintons own several million dollars properties. Barack Obama's family net worth is about 4 million dollars (which according to John McCain only makes the Obama family upper middle class, since they're below the 5 million dollar "you're wealthy" baseline McCain mentioned in an interview). John and Cindy McCain's net worth is around $150 million. Mitt Romney's is a little more than that and the Clintons are well over 50 million. So spare me the elitist bullshyt. I'm not a Republican, but I can admit that Gov. Sarah Palin is no elitist, from the interviews I've heard so far. Her husband still works in the oil industry in Alaska, as a "sloper" which is a quasi-blue collar position. I deal in truth, not partisan bullshyt. I profoundly disagree with her Ronald Reagan-esque views on government, as I witnessed first hand living in NYC the devastation wrought in poor communities of color during the 80's as a child and the "Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous" life of the Wall Street crowd of the 80's. Barack is 100% right, Trickle-Down economics or the "Ownership Society" is a bullshyt premise the GOP uses to keep the upper 5% in power and drowning in wealth.

BEAGLE, ELITIST DON'T QUIT HIGH PAYING, CUSHY LAW FIRM JOBS LIKE BARACK AND MICHELLE DID, WITH THOUSANDS IN STUDENT LOANS HANGING OVER THEIR HEADS TO WORK IN THE POOREST PARTS OF INNER CITY CHICAGO, AS COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS. I FIRMLY BELIEVE THIS ELITIST NONSENSE ONLY GETS TRACTION AMONGST IDIOTS BECAUSE BARACK IS A MAN OF COLOR. FOR A WHITE MAN TO GET THE ELITIST TITLE, HE'D HAVE TO WORTH WAY MORE THAN BARACK, BE A MEMBER OF SKULLS & BONES OR SOME OTHER SECRET SOCIETY AND LOOK DOWN ON POOR PEOPLE VEHEMENTLY. JOHN MCCAIN DOESN'T EVEN REMEMBER HOW MANY HOMES HE AND CINDY OWNS, BUT HE'S NOT AN ELITIST, JUST BECAUSE HE IS A FORMER POW & WAR VETERAN (as he told David Letterman).

BEAGLE, STOP LISTENENING TO A-HOLES LIKE SEAN HANNITY AND RUSH LIMBAUGH, WHO ARE THE REAL ELITIST. THEY'RE POLITICAL IDEOLOGY ONLY SERVICES THE RICH, BUT THEY'RE QUICK TO TALK ABOUT GOOD, HARD WORKING AMERICANS, AS LONG AS THEIR RICH ASSES GET TAX BREAKS UP THE KAZOO. SOME DEMOCRATS ARE NO BETTER AND I"M A DEMOCRAT. B.S IS B.S, BECAUSE IT STINKS NO MATTER WHO SAYS IT.

Ahhh, poor Beatmaker... having trouble growing out of your repressed childhood? You would rather have everyone take government handouts than kicking their sorry ass out of the food stamps line and making something of their life?

And, sadly, you equate elitism to net worth, while it sometimes is true, it is as often not true.

I just dont understand why people need all that money. They should share. Share everything because they are more capable and work hard. Everyone should have the same. To each according to his need... right beatmaker? And we'll do it on the backs of the Producers who have the vision to create companies and jobs and profit... the people capable of making money and providing wages for people to live, then we'll steal it from them because they have more than the workers, and well, that just isnt fare, now is it?

Tell me poor beatmaker... who will make the money to distribute when the Producers go on strike and stop working?

[SarahG]

My contribution to this thread:

[ottorocket]

Let me guess, Janet? Like Otto, you're an objective "Independent"?


Yeah, sure you are.

You like to spoon feed everyone here your own thoughts about our politics...Don't try and define others to win brownie points in the sophomoric debate here...you haven't a fucking clue what mine are. But let me tell everyone what they are so you don't FURTHER muddle up anyone else's opinion about me...


I voted Clinton/Gore in 92' and 96'
Voted Dubya in 01'
Went Independent in 04' and didnt vote
And so far am Independent and will not be voting for Obama or Mccain because I believe both are HORRID choices with big money backing them in a fucked up two-party system thats media controlled and not in the interests of American values.

My core beliefs??

Gay Marraige as a State Decision
Obama position is Gays should not face discrimination but should not marry. (Oct 2004) Gay Rights? Enforce all hate crimes and anti-discrimination in hiring and elsewhere

Flat Tax for everyone and I'm not for re-distribution of wealth for bigger government nanny states


Iraq? Hand over Iraq in a few years time and have them repay us in oil money for our blood and sacrifice and get Osama wherever

Trade? Fair trade with Asia and fair tax of imports...against NAFTA and all forms of creating global trade that hurts American workers

PRO 2nd Amendment rights and pro-assault weapons ban

Abortion? No late term abortion or abortion used as birth control

Stem Cells? Use current latest technology (skin, teeth etc) but develop unused fetus when morally ok for clear advances in major diseases

Immigration? I want tighter control and fewer immigrants to protect from disease and radical influence. Plus i want all Immigrants to learn ENGLISH I want a Guest Worker program and all others to get in line

Affirmative Action? I want anonymous performance based criteria and the bar raised not lowered for admissions

Death Penalty? Against it except for the most egregious criminals and DNA should always be used

Marijuana? Decriminalize it

Energy? Develop Offshore, Nuclear, Wind, Solar, NG, Fuel cell, Clean coal, and incentives for major automakers to develop hybrid full line of vehicles. Tax gas guzzlers and other vehicles slightly more. KEEP off Strategic Oil REserve unlike Obama and stay out of ANWAR Reduce our consumption through efficiency, conservation, and innovation.

Health Care? Opening up health care to both private and government plans whichever you can afford, and for more access to Canadian pharmaceuticals and more competition, but not Socialized medicine or universal coverage at the cost of covering ILLEGAL aliens by hard working Americans.

Homeland Security? Feel Patriot act needs amending. NO Habeus Corpus for NON-AMerican captives but against degrading or humiliating tactics that put American values in a negative way

[Baron Of Hell]

Those are some pretty bold statements. I mean that literally.

[fitz207]

Compare her "accomplishments". Obama might not have all the experience in the world. But it's a lot more than Palin's

she is not running for PRESIDENT...
McCain is 72 with a history of cancer, You never know if one of those screenings will turn up positive. So she might as well be running for President.

[toxicadam]

Here's what the newspaper media is saying about McCain's pick.


The Denver Post:

“I served with Hillary Clinton. I know Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is a friend of mine. You, Sarah Palin, are no Hillary Clinton.” Sorry to steal Joe Biden’s thunder, but we didn’t want to wait for the vice presidential candidates’ debate to say the obvious. Yes, John McCain, who argues with a straight face that Barack Obama’s 12 years in the Illinois legislature and U.S. Senate aren’t enough to qualify him to run for president, has picked a running mate who just two years ago was serving as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, population 5,470. In short, the presumptive Republican nominee, an Old Soldier in all senses of that term, drafted the political equivalent of the Unknown Soldier as his co-pilot. McCain’s pick of Palin jettisons his attack that Obama isn’t ready to lead and looks more like a desperate “Hail Mary” campaign tactic aimed at female voters.

Detroit News:

…Palin, 44, with less than two years as governor and no foreign policy experience, can’t be sold as ready to step into the presidency if called upon. Arizona Sen. McCain, if he wins, will be 72 when he takes office, and the question of succession is likely to be a concern for voters.

Kansas City Star:

But as this newspaper noted earlier this week, the most important question in evaluating a vice-presidential pick is whether that person is prepared to step into the Oval Office. Palin, with no national political experience and only a couple years in the Alaska governor’s office, is a very tough sell for the Republicans on that score. McCain’s age — he turned 72 on Friday — certainly doesn’t help. The Republican presidential candidate has emphasized the importance of military and national security issues, and taken shots at Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama the Democratic presidential nominee for having only four years of experience in the U.S. Senate. Yet McCain now suggests that someone halfway through her first term as governor is “exactly who this country needs” only one step away from the presidency

Tampa Bay Tribune:

John McCain can forget about trying to make a campaign issue out of Barack Obama’s relatively thin foreign policy resume. In an effort to blunt Obama’s post convention momentum, McCain made history Friday by choosing Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate, the first woman to be nominated for vice president by the GOP. It is a risky move that stunned even some party leaders who fear that voters will have trouble imagining the former beauty queen as commander in chief, if it should ever come to that. The 44-year-old Palin, a former small-town mayor serving her first term as governor, has no experience in foreign policy.

Washington Post:

But the most important question Mr. McCain should have asked himself about Ms. Palin was not whether she could help him win the presidency. It was whether she is qualified and prepared to serve as president should anything prevent him from doing so. This would have been true for any presidential nominee, and it was especially crucial that Mr. McCain — who turns 72 today — get this choice right…In this regard, count us among the puzzled and the skeptical…Once the buzz over Ms. Palin’s nomination dies down, the hard questions about her will begin. The answers will reflect on her qualifications — and on Mr. McCain’s judgment as well.

New York Times:

Governor Palin’s lack of experience, especially in national security and foreign affairs, raises immediate questions about how prepared she is to potentially succeed to the presidency. That really is the only criteria for judging a candidate for vice president.

Los Angeles Times:

What happened to his insistence that a running mate be qualified to serve as commander in chief? …An even better example is George H.W. Bush’s choice of Dan Quayle in 1988. That selection, like McCain’s, was designed partly to placate restive Republican conservatives. Those are not persuasive precedents. In one respect, McCain is in even less of a position to gamble than were Mondale and Bush. His age makes it especially important that his running mate be prepared to assume the presidency at a moment’s notice.

Boston Globe:

In picking a first-term governor with no foreign-policy record, the Republican presidential candidate undermined his own central themes - experience and national security - and exposed the deep fault lines within his campaign…But the pick is hard to square with what Republicans have been saying all week: that Obama is too green to be president. Because Obama has bared his soul in a bestselling memoir and his decisions have been under a microscope for the last four years, voters can assess his judgment. Palin, in contrast, has next to no track record. Her ticketmate would be the oldest first-term president ever and has had health troubles in the past. McCain, meanwhile, is struggling to accommodate Palin within the logic of his campaign, which up to now stressed an existential threat from Islamic fundamentalism.

Miami Herald:

Political strategists say Clinton’s rank-and-file supporters will be tough for McCain and Palin to win. The ticket’s strong anti-abortion positions make them anathema to liberal Democrats concentrated in places such as South Florida…On Friday, she may have made her first official flip flop, saying that she opposed the so-called ”bridge to nowhere” that became a symbol of pork-barrel Washington spending. Yet in 2006, her spokesman told the Associated Press that she supported the project.

Philadelphia Daily News:

Franklin & Marshall College pollster Terry Madonna said that Palin’s personal story is an asset but that he would describe McCain’s pick in three words. “Risky, risky and risky,” Madonna said. “We just don’t know how she’ll handle the next nine weeks of campaigning, dealing with all these complicated national and international issues, debating [Obama's running mate] Joe Biden, and having every word scrutinized by an aggressive press corps.” The greatest unanswered question is whether putting Palin on the ticket will bring many Clinton Democrats into the McCain column. The Daily News reached five women who were Clinton primary-election supporters in a March poll, and none said Palin’s candidacy would change their vote.

Chicago Tribune:

John McCain has described national security, defense, the war in Iraq and the war on terror as “the transcendent issues, the most important issues of our day.” So who did he choose for his running mate? Someone who has zero acquaintance with those issues. The first and last question to be asked about a potential vice president is: Is he or she prepared to take over immediately as president? Barack Obama’s choice of Joe Biden gave that matter the priority it deserves. The question is even more important for McCain because he’s 72 years old and has had serious health problems. The chances are considerably higher than usual that his vice president would have to step into the Oval Office without notice…this decision mocks McCain’s seriousness on the issues that are supposed to be his strength. It tells us that he puts his own political fortunes above the safety of the nation. McCain has done a lot of things for his country. He should have done one more and picked a running mate who makes a plausible commander-in-chief.

New York Times (Gail Collins):

He was looking for someone who was well prepared to fight against international Islamic extremism, the transcendent issue of our time. And in the end he decided that in good conscience, he was not going to settle for anyone who had not been commander of a state national guard for at least a year and a half. He put down his foot!…I do feel kind of ticked off at the assumptions that the Republicans seem to be making about female voters…The idea that women are going to race off to vote for any candidate with the same internal plumbing is both offensive and historically wrong.

TIME (Amy Sullivan):

It appears Sarah Palin was picked not just for her appeal to women voters but also to please social conservatives. If so, this could be Harriet Miers redux. And that didn’t work out so well the first time.

TIME (Mike Murphy):

McCain’s mighty and oft-swung Obama swatting hammer of experience has been instantly changed from steel to rubber. VP examination stakes are a little higher for McCain, will she pass the ready on Day One test with less than two years in a (small) statehouse? Former full Colonel in the Pat Buchanan brigades...

ABC News (Jake Tapper - yes, THAT Jake Tapper!):

Palin doesn’t exactly scream “experience,” which is McCain’s main argument against Obama. For a decade she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, which has a population of approximately 8,471, which the Obama campaign says is less than 1/20th the size of his former state senate district. Palin has been governor for two years. Some might argue that in terms of experience she makes Obama look like Robert Byrd. In July, Palin told CNBC’s Larry Kudlow that “as for that VP talk all the time, I tell ya, I still can’t answer that question until, until somebody answers for me ‘What it is exactly that the vice president does every day?”

Chicago Tribune (Mark Silva):

When Obama was looking at Democratic Gov. Tim Kaine of Virginia as a possible running mate, Karl Rove, the “architect” of President Bush’s election campaigns, dismissed his experience - a governor for three years and mayor of 103rd largest Richmond. We’re not sure where Wasilla ranks.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/the-backlash-cometh-msm-opeds.php

[Fox]

Heh, the political process has never grabbed my attention like this before. Then again, I'm still young. :p

[toxicadam]

Sarah Palin's Fifth Child is her Daughter's

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223


JUNEAU -- Gov. Sarah Palin shocked and awed just about everybody around the Capitol on Wednesday when she announced she's expecting her fifth child.
Palin said she's already about seven months along, with the baby due to arrive in mid-May.
That the pregnancy is so advanced astonished all who heard the news. The governor, a runner who's always been trim, simply doesn't look pregnant.
Even close members of her staff said they only learned this week their boss was expecting.
"I thought it was becoming obvious," Palin said. "You know, clothes getting snugger and snugger."
But people just couldn't believe the news.
"Really? No!" said Bethel state Rep. Mary Nelson, who is close to giving birth herself.
"It's wonderful. She's very well-disguised," said Senate President Lyda Green, a mother of three who has sometimes sparred with Palin politically. "When I was five months pregnant, there was absolutely no question that I was with child."
Palin said she's not aiming to take any time off from her job as governor, assuming all goes well with the pregnancy.
With Palin riding extraordinarily high popularity ratings, pundits have mentioned her as a potential vice presidential candidate. But she said Wednesday night she's "not pursuing or perpetuating it," adding, "I have no desire to leave my job at all as governor."
She's known as a fashion plate, but said she hasn't been dressing differently to cover her barely perceptible bulge.

Checking with the Anchorage High School that Bristol Palin attended, reporters were given word that her family had taken Bristol out of school due to contracting infectious mononucleosis. The amount of time Bristol was absent shifts from five to eight months.


2007
http://gov.state.ak.us/photos/pict0210.jpg

February 2008
http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/sarah_palin_02.jpg

March 2008- 7 months pregnant
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq311/santafemarie/PalinFamilyMarch2008.jpg

March 2008- 7 months pregnant
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/Professorhex/7months8.jpg

April 2008- weeks before giving birth
http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/files/images/2008-04-alaska-governor-sarah-palin-2.jpg

[fitz207]

Sarah Palin's Fifth Child is her Daughter's

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223


JUNEAU -- Gov. Sarah Palin shocked and awed just about everybody around the Capitol on Wednesday when she announced she's expecting her fifth child.
Palin said she's already about seven months along, with the baby due to arrive in mid-May.
That the pregnancy is so advanced astonished all who heard the news. The governor, a runner who's always been trim, simply doesn't look pregnant.
Even close members of her staff said they only learned this week their boss was expecting.
"I thought it was becoming obvious," Palin said. "You know, clothes getting snugger and snugger."
But people just couldn't believe the news.
"Really? No!" said Bethel state Rep. Mary Nelson, who is close to giving birth herself.
"It's wonderful. She's very well-disguised," said Senate President Lyda Green, a mother of three who has sometimes sparred with Palin politically. "When I was five months pregnant, there was absolutely no question that I was with child."
Palin said she's not aiming to take any time off from her job as governor, assuming all goes well with the pregnancy.
With Palin riding extraordinarily high popularity ratings, pundits have mentioned her as a potential vice presidential candidate. But she said Wednesday night she's "not pursuing or perpetuating it," adding, "I have no desire to leave my job at all as governor."
She's known as a fashion plate, but said she hasn't been dressing differently to cover her barely perceptible bulge.

Checking with the Anchorage High School that Bristol Palin attended, reporters were given word that her family had taken Bristol out of school due to contracting infectious mononucleosis. The amount of time Bristol was absent shifts from five to eight months.


2007
http://gov.state.ak.us/photos/pict0210.jpg

February 2008
http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/sarah_palin_02.jpg

March 2008- 7 months pregnant
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq311/santafemarie/PalinFamilyMarch2008.jpg

March 2008- 7 months pregnant
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/Professorhex/7months8.jpg

April 2008- weeks before giving birth
http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/files/images/2008-04-alaska-governor-sarah-palin-2.jpg
Boy McCain really appears desperate with this pick. McCain could not have had enough time to properly vett this women. I hope the MSM will follow up on this. If that's not her baby McCain's finished.

Thanks for shedding light on this.

[Stoked]

Wow... sunk to a new level...

1 you dont know when the pictures were taken.

2 if what you say is true, and they went to lengths to "hide" the daughter, why are they taking pictures together as a family?

3 why wasnt it a huge scandal in Alaska?, in fact this would have made major headlines if true.

and

4 what REAL difference does it make if it is hers OR the daughters? Which one of you would have taken on the responsibility and chose to go to term with a Downs syndrome baby and say no, I will not kill this child because it is not socially acceptable or perfect, or it will make my life to complicated?

Shame on you. You should be 1/50th the humanitarian as the Palin family. You cant even walk in her shadow.

Jeeze... for all you supporters of the disenfranchised, you have absolutely none for those who really need it... the ones who REALLY have no voice... the unborn fetus. Even worse, the aborted babies because of birth defects.

Shame, Shame, Shame, I want to puke at your hypocrisy.

[Stoked]

1 you dont know when the pictures were taken.

4 what REAL difference does it make if it is hers OR the daughters?

1-The pictures are dated.

4-Palin, according to news reports, makes a big deal about her family values. News of her teen's pregnancy would have been a major political blow.

Huh? Dude... are you serious? you make my points

Lets ASSUME the dates on the pictures are correct, ('cause anyone can put any date they want to make a point.) So if what you say in 4 is true, "makes a big deal about family values" why would they be taking pictures together during that time. You think ANYONE is that stupid if they know it will come back at them? (anyone other than yourself cause you believe it) And furthermore if your 4 were true, "teen pregnancy a major political blow" it would have been ALREADY discovered back home in Alaska.

Put down the pipe my brother... you've smoked too much

[yodajazz]

Still I’m not saying that force should never be used. I’m saying intelligent strategy means fighting ideas, with principles (ideas), and force with force. Intelligent strategy means courting allies and reducing enemies by dividing them from potential friends. Ideas are an important tool. This is even the subject of a chapter in the 9/11 report.
Yodajazz, the important defense think-tank The Rand Corporation, which is hardly a dovish organization, agrees with you in a recent recommendation to the US government.

August 1, 2008

Current U.S. strategy against the terrorist group al Qaida has not been successful in significantly undermining the group’s capabilities, according to a new RAND Corporation study issued today.

Al Qaida has been involved in more terrorist attacks since Sept. 11, 2001, than it was during its prior history and the group’s attacks since then have spanned an increasingly broader range of targets in Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa, according to researchers.

In looking at how other terrorist groups have ended, the RAND study found that most terrorist groups end either because they join the political process, or because local police and intelligence efforts arrest or kill key members. Police and intelligence agencies, rather than the military, should be the tip of the spear against al Qaida in most of the world, and the United States should abandon the use of the phrase “war on terrorism,” researchers concluded.

“The United States cannot conduct an effective long-term counterterrorism campaign against al Qaida or other terrorist groups without understanding how terrorist groups end,” said Seth Jones, the study’s lead author and a political scientist at RAND, a nonprofit research organization. “In most cases, military force isn’t the best instrument.”

The comprehensive study analyzes 648 terrorist groups that existed between 1968 and 2006, drawing from a terrorism database maintained by RAND and the Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism. The most common way that terrorist groups end — 43 percent — was via a transition to the political process. However, the possibility of a political solution is more likely if the group has narrow goals, rather than a broad, sweeping agenda like al Qaida possesses.

The second most common way that terrorist groups end — 40 percent — was through police and intelligence services either apprehending or killing the key leaders of these groups. Policing is especially effective in dealing with terrorists because police have a permanent presence in cities that enables them to efficiently gather information, Jones said.

Military force was effective in only 7 percent of the cases examined; in most instances, military force is too blunt an instrument to be successful against terrorist groups, although it can be useful for quelling insurgencies in which the terrorist groups are large, well-armed and well-organized, according to researchers. In a number of cases, the groups end because they become splintered, with members joining other groups or forming new factions. Terrorist groups achieved victory in only 10 percent of the cases studied.

Jones says the study has crucial implications for U.S. strategy in dealing with al Qaida and other terrorist groups. Since al Qaida’s goal is the establishment of a pan-Islamic caliphate, a political solution or negotiated settlement with governments in the Middle East is highly unlikely. The terrorist organization also has made numerous enemies and does not enjoy the kind of mass support received by other organizations such as Hezbollah in Lebanon, largely because al Qaida has not engaged in sponsoring any welfare services, medical clinics, or hospitals.

The study recommends the United States should adopt a two-front strategy: rely on policing and intelligence work to root out the terrorist leaders in Europe, North America, Asia and the Middle East, and involve military force — though not necessarily the U.S. military — when insurgencies are involved.

The United States also should avoid the use of the term, “war on terror,” and replace it with the term “counterterrorism.” Nearly every U.S. ally, including the United Kingdom and Australia, has stopped using “war on terror,” and Jones said it’s more than a mere matter of semantics.

“The term we use to describe our strategy toward terrorists is important, because it affects what kinds of forces you use,” Jones said. “Terrorists should be perceived and described as criminals, not holy warriors, and our analysis suggests that there is no battlefield solution to terrorism.”

Among the other findings, the study notes:

* Religious terrorist groups take longer to eliminate than other groups. Since 1968, approximately 62 percent of all terrorist groups have ended, while only 32 percent of religious terrorist groups have done so.
* No religious terrorist group has achieved victory since 1968.
* Size is an important predictor of a groups’ fate. Large groups of more than 10,000 members have been victorious more than 25 percent of the time, while victory is rare when groups are smaller than 1,000 members.
* There is no statistical correlation between the duration of a terrorist group and ideological motivation, economic conditions, regime type or the breadth of terrorist goals.
* Terrorist groups that become involved in an insurgency do not end easily. Nearly 50 percent of the time they end with a negotiated settlement with the government, 25 percent of the time they achieved victory and 19 percent of the time, military groups defeated them.
* Terrorist groups from upper-income countries are much more likely to be left-wing or nationalistic, and much less likely to be motivated by religion.

“The United States has the necessary instruments to defeat al Qaida, it just needs to shift its strategy and keep in mind that terrorist groups are not eradicated overnight,” Jones said.

The study, “How Terrorist Groups End: Lessons for Countering al Qaida,” can be found at www.rand.org.

The report was prepared by the RAND National Defense Research Institute, a federally funded research and development center that does research for the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the Joint Staff, the unified commands and other defense agencies.
More at http://www.nwotruth.com/us-should-rethink-war-on-terrorism-strategy-to-deal-with-resurgent-al-qaida/
and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kovalik/rand-corp----war-on-terro_b_116107.html
and http://www.economist.com/world/international/displayStory.cfm?story_id=11950796
and directly from The Rand Corporation http://wwwcgi.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2008/RAND_MG741-1.sum.pdf

Thanks also for your other rational and well-informed comments in this thread. I've been enjoying reading them.

Thanks a million for your information, and the compliment. I think I must have read something recently from others who were familiar with Rand’s report. But some of it comes from my own understanding of how life works.

What it does prove is that methods to counter terrorism should be a subject of debate, and that because a person disagrees with the Bush administration approach, does not mean that they do not love America.

I agree with the findings of that report. But that would mean the current administration, took the wrong approach, if in fact the reason they are in Iraq is to “fight the war on terror” as they have said. But as the truth is uncovered, it becomes more and more obvious that the “war of terror” in Iraq was mostly a cover story to gain control over the nation (Iraq), with the second largest oil reserves, by the nation (the US) with the largest per capita consumption of oil.

I believe majority of the most knowledgeable people in the world know this. It just that a large segment of the US population believe the spin (lies) that have been put out by the current powers that be. But that does not mean that all those people stupid or ignorant. Most people are just too busy to have time to search for the truth in the news. Most people just have time to catch the evening news or glance at the front page of a newspaper.

[toxicadam]

The oddest thing, as revealed by the OP on DailyKos, is that palin opted to take an 8-hour flight back to Alaska after her water broke in Texas. What rational mother-to-be would take such a risk simply to have her baby be "Alaska-born?"

I'm not saying Palin is not the mother, but this is worth looking into. Thanks for posting.


Sarah Palin's Fifth Child is her Daughter's

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223

Comparison at the same time between her previous pregnancies and her most current one:

http://i33.tinypic.com/mt70d4.jpg

At first I thought this was some bullshit but this whole story is fishy for all the people who think this is nonsense would a pregnant woman at 44 have her water break give a speech then fly 8 hours from texas to Seattle then fly to Alaska then drive 45 minutes then go to the hospital to deal with it? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stoked]

The oddest thing, as revealed by the OP on DailyKos, is that palin opted to take an 8-hour flight back to Alaska after her water broke in Texas. What rational mother-to-be would take such a risk simply to have her baby be "Alaska-born?"

I'm not saying Palin is not the mother, but this is worth looking into. Thanks for posting.


Sarah Palin's Fifth Child is her Daughter's

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223

Comparison at the same time between her previous pregnancies and her most current one:

http://i33.tinypic.com/mt70d4.jpg

At first I thought this was some bullshit but this whole story is fishy for all the people who think this is nonsense would a pregnant woman at 44 have her water break give a speech then fly 8 hours from texas to Seattle then fly to Alaska then drive 45 minutes then go to the hospital to deal with it? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMFAO...Here come the Conspiracy Kooks...

[Celeste]

shes a HOTTIE

[Stoked]

shes a HOTTIE

No doubt about that... smart and sharp too. And THAT makes her even sexier.

[toxicadam]

Palin's home town paper SLAMS her on bridge to nowhere lie.

http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

Palin touts stance on 'Bridge to Nowhere,' doesn't note flip-flop

By TOM KIZZIA
tkizzia@adn.com

Published: August 31st, 2008 02:29 AM
Last Modified: August 31st, 2008 03:06 AM

When John McCain introduced Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate Friday, her reputation as a tough-minded budget-cutter was front and center.

"I told Congress, thanks but no thanks on that bridge to nowhere," Palin told the cheering McCain crowd, referring to Ketchikan's Gravina Island bridge.

But Palin was for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it.

The Alaska governor campaigned in 2006 on a build-the-bridge platform, telling Ketchikan residents she felt their pain when politicians called them "nowhere." They're still feeling pain today in Ketchikan, over Palin's subsequent decision to use the bridge funds for other projects -- and over the timing of her announcement, which they say came in a pre-dawn press release that seemed aimed at national news deadlines.

"I think that's when the campaign for national office began," said Ketchikan Mayor Bob Weinstein on Saturday.

Meanwhile, Weinstein noted, the state is continuing to build a road on Gravina Island to an empty beach where the bridge would have gone -- because federal money for the access road, unlike the bridge money, would have otherwise been returned to the federal government.

<more>

This is a must read article in its entirety.

I hope her telling this lie will get some air time on the networks but I won't hold my breath.

[toxicadam]

LMFAO...Here come the Conspiracy Kooks...

My friend just talked on the phone to a woman from Palin's town...

He's job involves taking phone orders from people around the country. She just happened to speak with a woman from Wasilla. For what it's worth, she said:

Palin is not bright but she's cunning. Her family is dysfunctional. And everyone in town knows the baby is not hers.

[yodajazz]

Wow... sunk to a new level...

1 you dont know when the pictures were taken.

2 if what you say is true, and they went to lengths to "hide" the daughter, why are they taking pictures together as a family?

3 why wasnt it a huge scandal in Alaska?, in fact this would have made major headlines if true.

and

4 what REAL difference does it make if it is hers OR the daughters? Which one of you would have taken on the responsibility and chose to go to term with a Downs syndrome baby and say no, I will not kill this child because it is not socially acceptable or perfect, or it will make my life to complicated?

Shame on you. You should be 1/50th the humanitarian as the Palin family. You cant even walk in her shadow.

Jeeze... for all you supporters of the disenfranchised, you have absolutely none for those who really need it... the ones who REALLY have no voice... the unborn fetus. Even worse, the aborted babies because of birth defects.

Shame, Shame, Shame, I want to puke at your hypocrisy.

Stoked, you are right that this should not be a big public issue. However, Republicans have made a big deal about Democrats, lying about personal family level issues. Wasn’t that what the impeachment of Bill Clinton was about? They cornered him in court and asked him about a sexual affair. The fact that he lied was an impeachable offense. But that was really a family level personal issue, similar to the Pallin story. Are you so forgiving of John Edwards, who was seduced by a woman who played on his ego? If so I commend you for you new found compassion. Maybe this compassion could also extend to the poorer people on food stamps, of whom you said to, ”kick their sorry asses out of the food stamp line”. Having a teenage child, have a child out of wedlock is a common experience with poor working and non working mothers.




Shame, Shame, Shame, I want to puke at your hypocrisy.

I too 'puke at hypocracy, but just at different cases than you.

[Baron Of Hell]

I can not spell hypocracy either.

[Stoked]

Wow... sunk to a new level...

1 you dont know when the pictures were taken.

2 if what you say is true, and they went to lengths to "hide" the daughter, why are they taking pictures together as a family?

3 why wasnt it a huge scandal in Alaska?, in fact this would have made major headlines if true.

and

4 what REAL difference does it make if it is hers OR the daughters? Which one of you would have taken on the responsibility and chose to go to term with a Downs syndrome baby and say no, I will not kill this child because it is not socially acceptable or perfect, or it will make my life to complicated?

Shame on you. You should be 1/50th the humanitarian as the Palin family. You cant even walk in her shadow.

Jeeze... for all you supporters of the disenfranchised, you have absolutely none for those who really need it... the ones who REALLY have no voice... the unborn fetus. Even worse, the aborted babies because of birth defects.

Shame, Shame, Shame, I want to puke at your hypocrisy.

Stoked, you are right that this should not be a big public issue. However, Republicans have made a big deal about Democrats, lying about personal family level issues. Wasn’t that what the impeachment of Bill Clinton was about? They cornered him in court and asked him about a sexual affair. The fact that he lied was an impeachable offense. But that was really a family level personal issue, similar to the Pallin story. Are you so forgiving of John Edwards, who was seduced by a woman who played on his ego? If so I commend you for you new found compassion. Maybe this compassion could also extend to the poorer people on food stamps, of whom you said to, ”kick their sorry asses out of the food stamp line”. Having a teenage child, have a child out of wedlock is a common experience with poor working and non working mothers.




Shame, Shame, Shame, I want to puke at your hypocrisy.

I too 'puke at hypocracy, but just at different cases than you.

Bro... you have now put words in my mouth so you could raise a point.. I did not say, or write, " that this should not be a big public issue."

I was done responding because I thought you were an idiot, now you have proved it.

[Buzz]

Since this is a sex board, we interrupt this discussion to bring you 75 seconds of thoughts about sex, while still staying on topic...
http://s3.amazonaws.com/vodpod.com.videos.thumbnail/977074.medium160.jpg (http://www.jedreport.com/2008/08/john-mccains-wandering-eyes-ne.html)
McCain's Wandering Eyes (http://www.jedreport.com/2008/08/john-mccains-wandering-eyes-ne.html)

And in this version, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qUVQDmLf7s) you can listen in on what he's thinking too...

[Stoked]

LMFAO...Here come the Conspiracy Kooks...

My friend just talked on the phone to a woman from Palin's town...

He's job involves taking phone orders from people around the country. She just happened to speak with a woman from Wasilla. For what it's worth, she said:

Palin is not bright but she's cunning. Her family is dysfunctional. And everyone in town knows the baby is not hers.

See? what did I tell you...

By the way, I have a friend of a friend or a friend of a friend who knows you and says you are gay and a closet republican.

[hippifried]

Since this is a sex board, we interrupt this discussion to bring you 75 seconds of thoughts about sex, while still staying on topic...
http://s3.amazonaws.com/vodpod.com.videos.thumbnail/977074.medium160.jpg (http://www.jedreport.com/2008/08/john-mccains-wandering-eyes-ne.html)
McCain's Wandering Eyes (http://www.jedreport.com/2008/08/john-mccains-wandering-eyes-ne.html)

And in this version, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qUVQDmLf7s) you can listen in on what he's thinking too...
LOL! Too funny.

This has turned into a fairly entertaining thread. It's been quite interesting to see who's lining up where. I have one thought that I haven't seen mentioned:

From all accounts I've seen, John McCain didn't know Sarah Palin at all prior to her getting fast tracked onto the short list. Before she showed up to accept the spot in person, they talked exactly twice over the phone. Once to ask whether she would accept if asked, & again to tell her she'd been chosen. Oh I'm sure there's written & video documentation of her positions on the various issues she's addressed, but she was never vetted by John McCain himself.

Now there will be those who shrug & say "so what?", but the point is that this isn't John McCain's pick. Somebody else pulled the strings. I'd like to know who it is in the campaign staff who can sell John McCain on a running mate he's never met. It kind of makes me wonder what else he can be sold.

[Felicia Katt]

I posted this on another board, but thought it added something to the discussion here as well.

Here are a few Palin drones (I made that up :)

She is in favor of teaching creationism. She would not say whether her religious belief also allowed her to accept the theory of evolution as fact.

"I'm not going to pretend I know how all this came to be,"

She disputes that man made activity has an impact on global warming. She favors increased drilling offshore and in the ANWR. She opposed putting polar bears on the endangered species list.

She is opposed to virtually all abortions including those for victims of rape or incest or to preserve the health of the mother.

She is opposed to gay rights. She did veto legislation that unconstitutionally tried to block a State Supreme court decision that gave benefits to gay partners, but she supported the amendment to the Constitution that prohibited gay marriage and has said she would support a ballot measure to reverse the effect of her veto.

She is opposed to stem cell research.

In an interview just a month ago, she dissed the job of VP, saying it didn't seem "productive." and also that she didn't really know what the job entailed.

She praised Obama's energy plan (before she was selected, afterwards that page on her website was "archived".)

Here is what she said about Iraq

I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq...I want to know that we have an exit plan in place.

She and Hillary are alike in that neither has a Y chromosome, but in their substantive experience and stance on the issues, they couldn't be more different.

With his choice for VP, McCain is trying to again be a Maverick, but this was a Pinto move and it will blow up in his face.

FK

[toxicadam]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/img/global/tol-logo.gif

September 1, 2008
Sarah Palin hit by internet rumours over fifth child
Tim Reid in St Paul

Teams of Democratic operatives and investigative journalists descended on Alaska yesterday to delve into the private and public life of Sarah Palin, the new and little-known Republican vice-presidential nominee, as fresh questions arose over whether she had been vetted properly by the John McCain campaign.

After the stunning and show-stealing announcement by Mr McCain on Friday that he had chosen the 44-year-old Alaskan Governor as his running-mate, new information emerged over allegations that she tried to use her gubernatorial office to take revenge on her former brother-in-law, part of an ethics investigation that will be released on October 31 – five days before the general election.

If Mrs Palin, a conservative mother of five, ever doubted that landing on a national presidential ticket would open her to the harshest of spotlights and smear tactics, she also awoke yesterday to utterly unfounded internet rumours that her fifth child, born in April with Down’s Syndrome, was actually her 17-year-old daughter’s....

Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4647965.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=2015164

It's starting up the media food chain..

[tubgirl]

She disputes that man made activity has an impact on global warming. She favors increased drilling offshore and in the ANWR. She opposed putting polar bears on the endangered species list.

FK

let's just deal with this one for a moment...

you do realize that there are warming cycles that have happened hundreds of years before the advent of SUV's and combustible engines, right?

and you do realize, that alaska was purchased for its resources, right?

oh, and one last thing...how can a species that numbered 5000 in 1973, then numbered 25,000 last year, be put on the endangered species list?

now who's drinking the kool-aid?

[trish]

Do you realize that climatologists are well aware of naturally occurring warming cycles and that they factor those considerations into their calculations along with hundreds of other factors and have nevertheless concluded with 90% confidence that industrial production of greenhouse gasses is a significant cause of the current climate changes.

You do realize some resources are not meant to be burnt.

You are aware that if the world's human population numbered 25000 every last one of the 25000 would be screaming that the species is endangered.

[Stoked]

She disputes that man made activity has an impact on global warming. She favors increased drilling offshore and in the ANWR. She opposed putting polar bears on the endangered species list.

She is opposed to virtually all abortions including those for victims of rape or incest or to preserve the health of the mother.


With his choice for VP, McCain is trying to again be a Maverick, but this was a Pinto move and it will blow up in his face.

FK

I'll take on these three

Man made activity has not definitively been proven to cause global warming. And in fact, the global temperature has been decreasing
since 1998.

I am for oil independence too and drilling offshore and in ANWAR. Or would you rather continue to buy oil from nations that seek to destroy us? This does mean I am not in favor of other "greener" sourcs of energy... but until then, and that isn't happening anytime soon, the world depends on oil, so do we.

OPPOSED to all abortion, as opposed to those who BELIEVE IN all abortion, the outright killing of humans, yet worry about the polar bears making the endangered list? Whoa!

It was a great move... look how upset it has made Dems and how quickly the base has felt the necessity and moved to tear her down... even you Felicia.

[toxicadam]

SARAH PALIN FOR VP? HEY MCCAIN...WHY NOT ME?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0D_zoS_kxY

:D

[trish]

Since you think you can just prove your points by fiat, so can I: It has been determined that man-made greenhouse gasses are a primary cause of the current global climate change.

The oil companies already have leases to public lands and shores which they are not drilling. Moreover, Bush has forgiven them any royalty payments for those leases; i.e. they pay us nothing. Big oil is also exporting oil to South America and Europe. Require oil companies to drill the leases they already have before giving new leases. Reinstate royalties. Require domestic oil to be distributed domestically. Then maybe we’ll think about Anwar and the coasts of California and Florida.

Women have the sole right to their bodies. Life began just once: 4.5 billion years ago…it doesn’t begin everyday in somebody’s womb. When life begins is irrelevant to the question of abortion. What is relevant is the freedom of a woman over her own body.

The republicans are in a PANIC. First they want to postpone their convention and then John Sydney McCain the Third (owner of seven, maybe eight…is it ten?...homes) picks a running mate whom he met only twice. That’s just like George Bush looking into Putin’s eyes and knowing he can trust this man.

[PapaGrande]

You mean McCain WAS a centrist, not anymore and that's what counts. I find it funny that you conservatives keep calling Obama a liberal. But you never referred to HRC as one when goals are pretty much identical. Oh if noticed your buddy Bush is the biggest fuckup in the history of the U.S. You are out of touch with most americans by defending him and McCain. Joe Biden might be a Washington insider. But he is not a crook like McCain, that's the difference. Look at Biden's approval from his state. The people of arizona know McCain is a crook that's why Obama is running very close to him in his own state.

Ahh no, look at his actual record and look at Obama and Biden AND Clinton. They are all farther to the left than McCain is to the right.

http://ontheissues.org/default.htm

Its so sad that you do not have the capability for objective rational thought. Have you paid any attention to what has happened? McCain was left for dead, "conservatives" disliked him PRECISELY because of his centrist and supposedly even liberal views, and his past record of going against the Republican Party and working with Democrats. McCain-Kennedy left him almost broke and trailing in the polls, all the right wingers were rejoicing that he was going to be out of this election.

Its comical in your mind criticism Obama means someone is a right wing zealot, as if there is nothing to criticize Obama about. Oh ya I forgot, in the mind of his followers he can do no wrong.

Many elections come down to people voting for the lesser of two evils, and thats exactly what you have in the minds of McCain supporters, many who will openly talk about his faults and how he is not their ideal candidate, contrast that with the idol worship of Obama. That in fact is the only reason I offered any support of McCain, the irrational Obama circle jerk going on here was just a little too much. Also the caricature of anyone who doesn't like Obama here are just plain sad. Certainly there are some far right people here in America, just as there are some far left, but a large number of people who will vote for McCain are not these people.

Nobody believes in a Politician or political party 100%. Many people believe in the (supposedly) basic beliefs of the Republican party, smaller government, less taxes, personal responsibility, etc. and see McCain as better representing those views than Obama. There are many conservatives that hate that the GOP has been taken over by the neo-cons and religious right. Part of the whole Ron Paul popularity was connecting with these people that felt like the GOP had turned their back on them, but couldnt possibly support Democrats, mostly because of economic reasons.

Personally I think the GOP gave up on those ideals long ago and in my voting life (im 35) I have never voted for a Republican for president, and very few of them overall. In fact I voted for Clinton, twice, but that is before I became more educated in economics, history, and philosophy. I don't see how anyone with a basic understanding of economics or ethics could vote for Obama, unless you are a single issue voter, on something like abortion. In my mind McCain is the lesser of two evils, but voting for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil and I will not be voting for either one of these guys.

P.S. McCain is leading in Arizona, and the reason it isn't closer is because a number of people in AZ are still mad at McCain because of his immigration bill it has nothing to do with McCain being a "crook", so obviously you are as ill informed on this as everything else.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/08/20/20080820McCainpoll0820.html
[/quote]

[yodajazz]

Bro... you have now put words in my mouth so you could raise a point.. I did not say, or write, " that this should not be a big public issue."

I was done responding because I thought you were an idiot, now you have proved it.

So if I am an idiot, what are you? I figured that it would come down to name calling. But you don't have to answer what you are, because I know. You're a racist.



... You would rather have everyone take government handouts than kicking their sorry ass out of the food stamps line and making something of their life? ...


Yeah, I've been on your ass, since you came on posting those conservative, or what you call yourself, code words. Your done responding because you cannot answers the numerous challenges I have made regarding your philosophies.

But I will apologize if I misinterpeted some of your words. Your statements like the one above have me seeing red. But though I have seen red, I can still see your true colors.

[Cuchulain]

The investigation of the MILF of the moment is supposed to be finished on Oct 31. Will she be indicted before the election?
http://people.boston.com/forums/news/politics/general/?p=discussiondetails&activityid=8281536551553668309

[yodajazz]

You mean McCain WAS a centrist, not anymore and that's what counts. I find it funny that you conservatives keep calling Obama a liberal. But you never referred to HRC as one when goals are pretty much identical. Oh if noticed your buddy Bush is the biggest fuckup in the history of the U.S. You are out of touch with most americans by defending him and McCain. Joe Biden might be a Washington insider. But he is not a crook like McCain, that's the difference. Look at Biden's approval from his state. The people of arizona know McCain is a crook that's why Obama is running very close to him in his own state.

Ahh no, look at his actual record and look at Obama and Biden AND Clinton. They are all farther to the left than McCain is to the right...



I don't see labels like left right and centrist as being that important. Shouldn't it be about addressing specific issues, and prioritizing them through budgeting?

[Stoked]

Bro... you have now put words in my mouth so you could raise a point.. I did not say, or write, " that this should not be a big public issue."

I was done responding because I thought you were an idiot, now you have proved it.

So if I am an idiot, what are you? I figured that it would come down to name calling. But you don't have to answer what you are, because I know. You're a racist.



... You would rather have everyone take government handouts than kicking their sorry ass out of the food stamps line and making something of their life? ...




Yeah, I've been on your ass, since you came on posting those conservative, or what you call yourself, code words. Your done responding because you cannot answers the numerous challenges I have made regarding your philosophies.

But I will apologize if I misinterpeted some of your words. Your statements like the one above have me seeing red. But though I have seen red, I can still see your true colors.

WTF?

I can prove you are an idiot if i choose, by dissecting your "numerous challenges". They are so sophomoric and wrong, to do so would be a waste of my time. Therefore, describing you as an idiot is not name calling, its a descriptive, and, I might add, applicable word.

What have I written that proves I am a racist?

[toxicadam]

John Stewart: The Daily Show's Samantha bee voting McCain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzcTTzzAHG0

"women don't vote with the big head, they vote with the little hood..."

http://xs219.xs.to/xs219/07366/roll.gif

priceless.

[tubgirl]

She disputes that man made activity has an impact on global warming. She favors increased drilling offshore and in the ANWR. She opposed putting polar bears on the endangered species list.

She is opposed to virtually all abortions including those for victims of rape or incest or to preserve the health of the mother.


With his choice for VP, McCain is trying to again be a Maverick, but this was a Pinto move and it will blow up in his face.

FK

I'll take on these three

Man made activity has not definitively been proven to cause global warming. And in fact, the global temperature has been decreasing
since 1998.

I am for oil independence too and drilling offshore and in ANWAR. Or would you rather continue to buy oil from nations that seek to destroy us? This does mean I am not in favor of other "greener" sourcs of energy... but until then, and that isn't happening anytime soon, the world depends on oil, so do we.

OPPOSED to all abortion, as opposed to those who BELIEVE IN all abortion, the outright killing of humans, yet worry about the polar bears making the endangered list? Whoa!

It was a great move... look how upset it has made Dems and how quickly the base has felt the necessity and moved to tear her down... even you Felicia.

forget it, man. people on here just don't want to listen to reason...

[toxicadam]

http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/01/mccain-campaign-bristol-palin-is-pregnant/


17-year-old daughter of Republican veep nominee is five months pregnant and plans to marry the father of her unborn child.

Palin: “Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family.” Read full campaign statement: http://thepage.time.com/mccain-statement-on-bristol-palin

Well that was unexpected.

[Stoked]

Yoda,

You must understand something. Stoked can not make a point without resorting to insults. He's quick with them too.

I've seen plenty of your posts and you, like most of us on HA, can disagree with others and not resort to name-calling.





Bro... you have now put words in my mouth so you could raise a point.. I did not say, or write, " that this should not be a big public issue."

I was done responding because I thought you were an idiot, now you have proved it.

So if I am an idiot, what are you? I figured that it would come down to name calling. But you don't have to answer what you are, because I know. You're a racist.



... You would rather have everyone take government handouts than kicking their sorry ass out of the food stamps line and making something of their life? ...


Yeah, I've been on your ass, since you came on posting those conservative, or what you call yourself, code words. Your done responding because you cannot answers the numerous challenges I have made regarding your philosophies.

But I will apologize if I misinterpeted some of your words. Your statements like the one above have me seeing red. But though I have seen red, I can still see your true colors.

Beautiful Braveman... you praise yodajazz for not resorting to name calling, when in that exact post he called me a racist... you bonerhead!

[toxicadam]

At a press availability in Monroe, Mich., Barack Obama said: "Back off these kinds of stories."


"I have said before and I will repeat again: People's families are off limits," Obama said. "And people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor and/or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18, and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn’t be a topic of our politics."

On charges that his campaign has stoked the story via liberal blogs:

"I am offended by that statement. There is no evidence at all that any of this involved us," he said. "Our people were not involved in any way in this, and they will not be. And if I thought there was somebody in my campaign who was involved in something like that, they would be fired."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13050.html

[yodajazz]

Bro... you have now put words in my mouth so you could raise a point.. I did not say, or write, " that this should not be a big public issue."

I was done responding because I thought you were an idiot, now you have proved it.

So if I am an idiot, what are you? I figured that it would come down to name calling. But you don't have to answer what you are, because I know. You're a racist.



... You would rather have everyone take government handouts than kicking their sorry ass out of the food stamps line and making something of their life? ...




Yeah, I've been on your ass, since you came on posting those conservative, or what you call yourself, code words. Your done responding because you cannot answers the numerous challenges I have made regarding your philosophies.

But I will apologize if I misinterpeted some of your words. Your statements like the one above have me seeing red. But though I have seen red, I can still see your true colors.

WTF?

I can prove you are an idiot if i choose, by dissecting your "numerous challenges". They are so sophomoric and wrong, to do so would be a waste of my time. Therefore, describing you as an idiot is not name calling, its a descriptive, and, I might add, applicable word.

What have I written that proves I am a racist?

Throughout history, battles, wars, empires, and even chess matches have been lost by underestimating the qualities of the opposition. Whether I am an idiot or not, I am learning from you. So I am thankful for you, for giving of yourself.

As far as you being a racist; certain code words have been in use since at least the sixties. Your comment about people receiving food stamps being sorry assed is very typical of racists. All kind of people recieve food stamps but the public perception is synonymous with people of color. Nazis and white supremacists are very open about their beliefs. But it is the hidden ones, who use other excuses, are in fact the most harmful.

[PatrickFromNYC]

Who?

then again ...

Thats the part that scares me too :wink:

[Cuchulain]

The pregnant, unmarried daughter of a 'moral values' candidate story may sell more newspapers, but the 'troopergate' investigation into Palin's possible misuse of authority is more interesting to political junkies like me. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26499411/

[Realgirls4me]

Let me guess, Janet? Like Otto, you're an objective "Independent"?


Yeah, sure you are.

You like to spoon feed everyone here your own thoughts about our politics...Don't try and define others to win brownie points in the sophomoric debate here...you haven't a fucking clue what mine are. But let me tell everyone what they are so you don't FURTHER muddle up anyone else's opinion about me...


I voted Clinton/Gore in 92' and 96'
Voted Dubya in 01'
Went Independent in 04' and didnt vote ...

...

"Sophomoric"? "Brownie points" ? When I suspected (posts immersed in RW talking points) where you were positioned on the political spectrum, I asked you (twice I believe) who you voted for in the last two presidential elections since you were claiming to be an Independent. It was just a simple question and you couldn't answer it. Now your response is this? What you listed here confirms what I suspected all along and why you are not an Independent as you claim to be.

... How did you feel about Bush's decision on invading Iraq? Bush's goal of privatizing Social Security? Etc.

Hey, it's just a label -- you don't qualify for. Deal with it.

[toxicadam]

ABC Confirms: Palin Was AIP Member

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html


http://i38.tinypic.com/dfzi4o.jpg

CNN briefly mentioned it but never really said much else. It seems worthy to be a big story to me but barely is gaining traction despite ABC and the NYTimes reporting she was a member of this anti-american political party.

[Legend]

Obama says Palin's family off limits


Sen. Barack Obama said firmly that families are off-limits in the campaign for president, reacting to news that GOP running mate Sarah Palin's 17-year-old daughter is pregnant.

"Let me be as clear as possible," Obama said. "I think people's families are off-limits, and people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as governor or her potential performance as a vice president."

Obama said reporters should "back off these kinds of stories" and noted that he was born to an 18-year-old mother.

"How a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn't be the topic of our politics, and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that's off-limits." Watch more of Obama's comments »

Bristol Palin, a senior in high school, is about five months pregnant, according to an aide to Sen.

the information now because of rampant Internet rumors that Sarah Palin's 4-month-old baby, who has Down syndrome, was actually Bristol's.

Obama became annoyed when asked about a Reuters news service report that quoted an unnamed senior McCain aide saying that Obama's name appears in liberal blogs speculating about Trig's parentage "in a way that certainly juxtaposes themselves against their 'campaign of change.' " Watch analysts weigh in on the Palins' announcement »

"I am offended by that statement," the Illinois senator retorted, not letting the reporter finish his question. "There is no evidence at all that any of this involved us.
"We don't go after people's families; we don't get them involved in the politics. It's not appropriate, and it's not relevant," he added. "Our people were not involved in any way in this, and they will not be. And if I ever thought that there was somebody in my campaign that was involved in something like that, they'd be fired
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/obama.palin/?iref=mpstoryview

[Michelle Levelle Boutique]

I love the fact that you gentlemen are so intellectual and all making very valid points. Im so impressed that such conversations exist here and I applaud you all for sharing your views!

I dont mean to butt in, I just read quite a few of your responses and thought I would peek my head in and say hello!

I am a young business owner as well as a TS female so I have been very interested in what both sides have to say as far as 'Change' is concerned as this economy and social standing effects me on many levels.

If you get a chance to check me out I would love to get to know all of you. Im hosting an upscale event in Chicago for the Ladies to come out and have a Champagne and Shopping Experience. I hope to hear from you all!

Its Nov 5th Downtown Chicago at 6 pm

And dont forget to check out my last party http://vimeo.com/1252891

The link to RSVP is Below

http://www.evite.com/app/publicUrl/MUHFFFAHBSZDHUYIDAGT/ChicBoutiqueParty

[chefmike]

:spam