i am tired of explaining

[whatsupwithat]

i've brought this up before on this board and we didn't get anywhere...but here i am again repeating to you what has become a standard interaction for me with people outside the trans community.

my sister was in the city today and we had lunch. my family has always known of my sexuality and i've always introduced to them any trans women i was dating and serious about. they've also met many of my trans friends and we've all hung out together numerous times. they've always been supportive and i didn't think it was an issue. well, today, i learned that my sister was a little confused about who i am...sexually...and it became an issue.

the topic of my sexuality came up when my sister mentioned that my nieces and nephews has been texting each other back and forth lately about an interview i did where i discussed my sexual preference and my history in the trans community. apparently, they were confused as to my sexuality and when one of them asked their mother, my sister, she didn't know how to answer. she asked me.

SIS: "So, you're gay." (lol, i know, i know, i laughed too)

ME: "No. I experimented with men in the past when i was younger, but it wasn't for me. Never liked it."

SIS: "Then, you're bisexual."

ME: "No."

SIS: "You're not straight."

ME: "No."

(long pause)

SIS: "Then, what are you?"

ME: "There's no name for men like me."

SIS: "Nothing?"

ME: "Well, there are medical terms which are negative. There are terms used by some of the trans women which are negative. Some guys call themselves straight, others call themselves bi. But as for a definitive term...nothing. I've started calling myself transsexual. I think the term transsexual was misappropriated back in the day when they didn't understand too much...not that it has changed all that much out there. There's heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual which apply to sexuality, right? Trans is a bigger issue, not a sexual one. It's about the sex, who trans people are intrinsically, inside. It's not about sexuality. For me, it's about sexuality. It's my sexuality. So, if i liked women, I'd be heterosexual....men, homosexual...both men and women, bisexual...but transsexual...do you see what I'm saying?"

SIS: "So..."

ME: "Yeah. Exactly."


being open about who i am has led me to have zillion and conversations like this....and not just with family. business people, clergy, friends, acquaintances...the list goes on and on. oh, i could take the buddhist route and say, "it just is", but i think the world at large, society needs something more to hang their hat on. it's a fact that we, as human beings, communicate by words. we understand concepts through them. i'm just tired of explaining. i really am.

[TrueBeauty TS]

ME: "Well, there are medical terms which are negative. There are terms used by some of the trans women which are negative.

OK, we trannys call you a tranny chaser. I got that. :wink: xoxo


But what is the medical term for guys that like trannys? I'm not sure if I know that.


.

[StrangeAccentMAn]

Yeah exactly.

People need terms to tag on to you, to understand who you are.

They are pretty general terms and are wrong.

It's one of the main reasons most men are afraid to reveal their interest in trans women, they get tagged as gay, which is totally wrong.

I have a very close friend of mine, who would probably end our friendship if he realized the girls I am into.

It's pretty fucked up, I can't live the life I want to live with the woman I really want to be with at the risk of being shunned by family, friends and labeled a homosexual or bisexual. I never felt I was that at all.

Sorry if I'm using your thread to vent on. lol.

But I understand exactly what you mean.

[Dina Delicious]

why are we so stuck up with terms
what happen to human being

im tired of explaining too
your a sexual person that is not defined by any one term
kisses
DD

[Realgirls4me]

whatsupwithat:

If we can't seem to settle those issues here -- Here! --, what makes you think you'll succeed at defining them and settling them anywhere else?

I feel for you, my man. :(

[blckhaze]

good topic WUWT

A term a former GF gave me was "trans-attracted" male. At first I didnt get it, but over time it made sense. I know, simply based on the what I like, Im not by definition straight, but i also know for DAMN sure that Im not in anyway into guys passed the level of friendship and comradery.
My brother and close friends have seen my ts girlfriends, and they are confused as hell at what I consider myself. I think its really funny trying to explain it to people outside our small circle. Not much can convince people who arent here already of your position.

[TrueBeauty TS]

It's pretty fucked up, I can't live the life I want to live with the woman I really want to be with at the risk of being shunned by family, friends and labeled a homosexual or bisexual.


That's why so many TS girls lack respect for so many guys. They are unwilling to give the same commitment for their life as the girls have already done.

The girls have risked it all, very few men do. That's why when you have a (gorgeous) guy like Eric that is willing to put himself on the line for what he wants, the girls fall all over him.

Willing to live your life on your terms is one of the sexiest turn-ons a man can do.


.

[StrangeAccentMAn]

It's pretty fucked up, I can't live the life I want to live with the woman I really want to be with at the risk of being shunned by family, friends and labeled a homosexual or bisexual.


That's why so many TS girls lack respect for so many guys. They are unwilling to give the same commitment for their life as the girls have already done.

The girls have risked it all, very few men do. That's why when you have a (gorgeous) guy like Eric that is willing to put himself on the line for what he wants, the girls fall all over him.

Willing to live your life on your terms is one of the sexiest turn-ons a man can do.


.

I haven't meet the right one yet, I suppose. I'm young I got time to prepare myself for such a commitment.

[scroller]

Good post, OP. That's the most well-thought-out and patient answer I've seen to date.

[Alyssa87]

That's why when you have a (gorgeous) guy like Eric that is willing to put himself on the line for what he wants, the girls fall all over him.




mmmhm :wink:

[whatsupwithat]

why are we so stuck up with terms
what happen to human being

im tired of explaining too
your a sexual person that is not defined by any one term
kisses
DD

i agree wholeheartedly. but the majority of people...probably 99.9% of them...need something, a word in order to categorize or make sense of something. that's an apple, that's a gay man, that's a trans woman, that's a...wait...what are you?

on a side note...miss you! :)

[whatsupwithat]

Yeah exactly.

People need terms to tag on to you, to understand who you are.

They are pretty general terms and are wrong.

It's one of the main reasons most men are afraid to reveal their interest in trans women, they get tagged as gay, which is totally wrong.

I have a very close friend of mine, who would probably end our friendship if he realized the girls I am into.

It's pretty fucked up, I can't live the life I want to live with the woman I really want to be with at the risk of being shunned by family, friends and labeled a homosexual or bisexual. I never felt I was that at all.

Sorry if I'm using your thread to vent on. lol.

But I understand exactly what you mean.

and i totally understand what you're saying. it would be easier on people if they could just grasp it and understand. and, unfortunately, that means having an easily identifiable term that defines something.

as for your friend, i lost a few because of who i am. i had to ask myself...were they really my friends, did they really accept me for me? the answer was, of course, no. in the end, they weren't the kind of friends i wanted anyways, you know what i mean?

[whatsupwithat]

whatsupwithat:

If we can't seem to settle those issues here -- Here! --, what makes you think you'll succeed at defining them and settling them anywhere else?

I feel for you, my man. :(

well...i don't know. but that won't stop me from trying! thank you. :)

[Oli]

Nice to see you again Eric. I'm sorry you've had to repeat that conversation, but your blessed that your family wants to accept and understand you, and pass that knowledge on to their children.

It says volumes about the quality of the people in your family. And those qualities are what you share with us.

Thanks for posting that.

[StrangeAccentMAn]

Yeah exactly.

People need terms to tag on to you, to understand who you are.

They are pretty general terms and are wrong.

It's one of the main reasons most men are afraid to reveal their interest in trans women, they get tagged as gay, which is totally wrong.

I have a very close friend of mine, who would probably end our friendship if he realized the girls I am into.

It's pretty fucked up, I can't live the life I want to live with the woman I really want to be with at the risk of being shunned by family, friends and labeled a homosexual or bisexual. I never felt I was that at all.

Sorry if I'm using your thread to vent on. lol.

But I understand exactly what you mean.

and i totally understand what you're saying. it would be easier on people if they could just grasp it and understand. and, unfortunately, that means having an easily identifiable term that defines something.

as for your friend, i lost a few because of who i am. i had to ask myself...were they really my friends, did they really accept me for me? the answer was, of course, no. in the end, they weren't the kind of friends i wanted anyways, you know what i mean?

Yeah, I mean you run into a general situation, put aside if she's a trans women or a GG or whatever, In first view, I will look like I am choosing a woman over my friend and we have been through a lot together over the years. For me that's the major obstacle.

Put aside his close minded views on sexuality.

[whatsupwithat]

good topic WUWT

A term a former GF gave me was "trans-attracted" male. At first I didnt get it, but over time it made sense. I know, simply based on the what I like, Im not by definition straight, but i also know for DAMN sure that Im not in anyway into guys passed the level of friendship and comradery.
My brother and close friends have seen my ts girlfriends, and they are confused as hell at what I consider myself. I think its really funny trying to explain it to people outside our small circle. Not much can convince people who arent here already of your position.

yep. and therein lies the rub. all of us here understand each other 9most of the time), but we have to be able to communicate that understanding to the outside populace.



he girls have risked it all, very few men do. That's why when you have a (gorgeous) guy like Eric that is willing to put himself on the line for what he wants, the girls fall all over him.

.

oh really? girls falling over me? hahaha! hon, i wish that were the truth. last time i had a girl fall al over me was...was...ok, now i'm depressed.

but, honestly, even if it were true, it's not about that. it's about me being honest with myself and communicating that self to others in a way they can grasp. the community, all of us, would be better off if we could. i think, as someone mentioned before, it would make it easier for the men to come out and for the trans women to be less suspicious of their motives. it might even bring world peace! :P



Good post, OP. That's the most well-thought-out and patient answer I've seen to date.

thank you! :)





mmmhm :wink:

well, hello! ;)

[whatsupwithat]

Nice to see you again Eric. I'm sorry you've had to repeat that conversation, but your blessed that your family wants to accept and understand you, and pass that knowledge on to their children.

It says volumes about the quality of the people in your family. And those qualities are what you share with us.

Thanks for posting that.

hey!! nice to see you, too! :)

thank you. i'm very touched by what you wrote. truly. thank you. it means a lot to have support here in the community. maybe there is hope for us yet. maybe? :)

[whatsupwithat]

Yeah, I mean you run into a general situation, put aside if she's a trans women or a GG or whatever, In first view, I will look like I am choosing a woman over my friend and we have been through a lot together over the years. For me that's the major obstacle.

Put aside his close minded views on sexuality.

i understand and i don't intend to demean your feelings or friendship, but isn't that life? isn't that the age old story? two boys grow up together, are friends through life, one changes or meets someone and falls in love...and they grow apart. it hurts, yes, but it's part of growing up. we change. sometimes we choose to and other times, as in your case, the choice is already made for us. you didn't choose your sexuality. nor did i. so, my only advice to you would be to be true to yourself, because, in the end, you're all you got.

much peace to you.

[vietboy]

i've brought this up before on this board and we didn't get anywhere...but here i am again repeating to you what has become a standard interaction for me with people outside the trans community.

my sister was in the city today and we had lunch. my family has always known of my sexuality and i've always introduced to them any trans women i was dating and serious about. they've also met many of my trans friends and we've all hung out together numerous times. they've always been supportive and i didn't think it was an issue. well, today, i learned that my sister was a little confused about who i am...sexually...and it became an issue.

the topic of my sexuality came up when my sister mentioned that my nieces and nephews has been texting each other back and forth lately about an interview i did where i discussed my sexual preference and my history in the trans community. apparently, they were confused as to my sexuality and when one of them asked their mother, my sister, she didn't know how to answer. she asked me.

SIS: "So, you're gay." (lol, i know, i know, i laughed too)

ME: "No. I experimented with men in the past when i was younger, but it wasn't for me. Never liked it."

SIS: "Then, you're bisexual."

ME: "No."

SIS: "You're not straight."

ME: "No."

(long pause)

SIS: "Then, what are you?"

ME: "There's no name for men like me."

SIS: "Nothing?"

ME: "Well, there are medical terms which are negative. There are terms used by some of the trans women which are negative. Some guys call themselves straight, others call themselves bi. But as for a definitive term...nothing. I've started calling myself transsexual. I think the term transsexual was misappropriated back in the day when they didn't understand too much...not that it has changed all that much out there. There's heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual which apply to sexuality, right? Trans is a bigger issue, not a sexual one. It's about the sex, who trans people are intrinsically, inside. It's not about sexuality. For me, it's about sexuality. It's my sexuality. So, if i liked women, I'd be heterosexual....men, homosexual...both men and women, bisexual...but transsexual...do you see what I'm saying?"

SIS: "So..."

ME: "Yeah. Exactly."


being open about who i am has led me to have zillion and conversations like this....and not just with family. business people, clergy, friends, acquaintances...the list goes on and on. oh, i could take the buddhist route and say, "it just is", but i think the world at large, society needs something more to hang their hat on. it's a fact that we, as human beings, communicate by words. we understand concepts through them. i'm just tired of explaining. i really am.

DOOOOD, you need to get laid.

Why do you set yourself up to get wound up by someone else's curiosity?

I think you take yourself way too seriously. Get a girlfriend and find a way to burn some of that pent up angst.

[Coroner]

In the past when I became conscious of my attraction to transsexual women (let´s say, at the age of 16), I still considered myself straight. That went on for a couple of years. The reason might have been my fear that people could consider me as a gay man. I grew up in an environment where the term "gay" was used to make fun of people, insult them or to exlude them, which is the most painful action towards a human being.
But with time since I´m more informed and acclimated to the facts of my sexual preferences, I do not burden myself with categorical terms. It´s simply wrong and too bounded to explain. So, considering yourself as a "transsexual" is in fact bounding yourself, E, which you seem to fight! To be honest, this is inconsistent to me. Sexuality is not just the orientation but gender, too. This is were transsexualism finds itself. You´re using this term in the wrong context but I would never insist on convincing you that you´re totally wrong. This brings us again to a point that has been discussed a million times before: everyone should consider himself the way he wants and feels. If you say you´re gay, bi or straight, let it be. I for myself cannot say that I´m straight anymore. I´m just a sexual individual who loves T-girls and GGs and I don´t need to go further into theories. Some people like strawberry ice but not the strawberry in its original form, so do they like strawberry now or not? Makes no sense to discuss about that.
My sister is the only person to know about my desire for transsexual women but she never kept asking me "what I am", probably because I´m still the same Coroner and she still treats me as her "old straight brother".

Cheers and peace man.

[whatsupwithat]

i've brought this up before on this board and we didn't get anywhere...but here i am again repeating to you what has become a standard interaction for me with people outside the trans community.

my sister was in the city today and we had lunch. my family has always known of my sexuality and i've always introduced to them any trans women i was dating and serious about. they've also met many of my trans friends and we've all hung out together numerous times. they've always been supportive and i didn't think it was an issue. well, today, i learned that my sister was a little confused about who i am...sexually...and it became an issue.

the topic of my sexuality came up when my sister mentioned that my nieces and nephews has been texting each other back and forth lately about an interview i did where i discussed my sexual preference and my history in the trans community. apparently, they were confused as to my sexuality and when one of them asked their mother, my sister, she didn't know how to answer. she asked me.

SIS: "So, you're gay." (lol, i know, i know, i laughed too)

ME: "No. I experimented with men in the past when i was younger, but it wasn't for me. Never liked it."

SIS: "Then, you're bisexual."

ME: "No."

SIS: "You're not straight."

ME: "No."

(long pause)

SIS: "Then, what are you?"

ME: "There's no name for men like me."

SIS: "Nothing?"

ME: "Well, there are medical terms which are negative. There are terms used by some of the trans women which are negative. Some guys call themselves straight, others call themselves bi. But as for a definitive term...nothing. I've started calling myself transsexual. I think the term transsexual was misappropriated back in the day when they didn't understand too much...not that it has changed all that much out there. There's heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual which apply to sexuality, right? Trans is a bigger issue, not a sexual one. It's about the sex, who trans people are intrinsically, inside. It's not about sexuality. For me, it's about sexuality. It's my sexuality. So, if i liked women, I'd be heterosexual....men, homosexual...both men and women, bisexual...but transsexual...do you see what I'm saying?"

SIS: "So..."

ME: "Yeah. Exactly."


being open about who i am has led me to have zillion and conversations like this....and not just with family. business people, clergy, friends, acquaintances...the list goes on and on. oh, i could take the buddhist route and say, "it just is", but i think the world at large, society needs something more to hang their hat on. it's a fact that we, as human beings, communicate by words. we understand concepts through them. i'm just tired of explaining. i really am.

DOOOOD, you need to get laid.

Why do you set yourself up to get wound up by someone else's curiosity?

I think you take yourself way too seriously. Get a girlfriend and find a way to burn some of that pent up angst.

ha! thanks, man. i appreciate the advice. ;)

[Alyssa87]

Get a girlfriend and find a way to burn some of that pent up angst.

ha! thanks, man. i appreciate the advice. ;)

he's right ya know

[whatsupwithat]

In the past when I became conscious of my attraction to transsexual women (let´s say, at the age of 16), I still considered myself straight. That went on for a couple of years. The reason might have been my fear that people could consider me as a gay man. I grew up in an environment where the term "gay" was used to make fun of people, insult them or to exlude them, which is the most painful action towards a human being.
But with time since I´m more informed and acclimated to the facts of my sexual preferences, I do not burden myself with categorical terms. It´s simply wrong and too bounded to explain. So, considering yourself as a "transsexual" is in fact bounding yourself, E, which you seem to fight! To be honest, this is inconsistent to me. Sexuality is not just the orientation but gender, too. This is were transsexualism finds itself. You´re using this term in the wrong context but I would never insist on convincing you that you´re totally wrong. This brings us again to a point that has been discussed a million times before: everyone should consider himself the way he wants and feels. If you say you´re gay, bi or straight, let it be. I for myself cannot say that I´m straight anymore. I´m just a sexual individual who loves T-girls and GGs and I don´t need to go further into theories. Some people like strawberry ice but not the strawberry in its original form, so do they like strawberry now or not? Makes no sense to discuss about that.
My sister is the only person to know about my desire for transsexual women but she never kept asking me "what I am", probably because I´m still the same Coroner and she still treats me as her "old straight brother".

Cheers and peace man.

hey old straight brother. good to see you.

great points! yes, sexuality is related to gender, but we're caught in this dualistic way of looking at it. who we are is outside of the normal precepts of society and gender and sexuality...and people cannot grasp it. it's almost like we need a stephen hawking of gender to appear and write a book on string bikini theory. :P

seriously, though, i am all for living as i be. but if you go back to what truebeauty said earlier...as well as others...this goes beyond the individual and our individual choices and preferences and ideas of how we label and see ourselves. it's actually all about community and cohesion and support and moving forward as one, under one umbrella, in a positive way. 'i am what i am' and 'we are what we are' just doesn't cut it when there's nothing for those outside of our community to pin it to. we might as well be ether.

btw, awesome about your sis. i may have painted a portrait of my sister that was a tad negative, but she really has been supportive. she just wants to understand...just like my nieces and nephews do. and they're not the only ones. i run across it all the time. it'd be great to give them clarity outside of rehashed buddhist sayings...that's all. :)

[whatsupwithat]

Get a girlfriend and find a way to burn some of that pent up angst.

ha! thanks, man. i appreciate the advice. ;)

he's right ya know

great, now i'm blushing.

[justatransgirl]

.....

[Yummster]

how about the term: I'm just a guy who's into GGs and shemales?.

For example a guy like me. Yes I am comfortable being in relationships with GG women, but I just like the kink I get from feminine shemales. It's not really any term thats supposed to be that hard to see.

Does it matter what we are?. If people are into fucking a black prostitute with HIV and thats his thing behind the 4 walls of the house then let him do, if jerking off to hot feminine non masculine trannies are a guys thing let him do it. Im sure many of the guys who got prejudices against hot shemales is a closet case that likes jerking off to pics and vids when no one is around.

So final conclusion: Maybe we are a bit metro sexual in some way, but I wouldn't take it that far of being bi or gay.

[DJ_Asia]

Honestly who gives a damn what others think about anyone's sexual preferences....none of their business and at the end of the day the only person you have to face in the mirror is yourself,and if you can live with what stares back at you then you've got a leg up on many folks.

I came out to my friends and family long agao,I mean it is a bit hard to keep what I do a big secret,but to the point my father thinks that im gay because I date TS's and I told him..."Hey if that gets you through the day,then knock yourself out"...gay,straight,bi,tri, whattever....

And E, you know I mean that in the kindest of ways...peace

[DC]

I've always believed that sexuality is not black or white, there are many shades of grey.

[whatsupwithat]

Honestly who gives a damn what others think about anyone's sexual preferences....none of their business and at the end of the day the only person you have to face in the mirror is yourself,and if you can live with what stares back at you then you've got a leg up on many folks.

I came out to my friends and family long agao,I mean it is a bit hard to keep what I do a big secret,but to the point my father thinks that im gay because I date TS's and I told him..."Hey if that gets you through the day,then knock yourself out"...gay,straight,bi,tri, whattever....

And E, you know I mean that in the kindest of ways...peace

hey dude!

i am sooooooo missing thailand right now! i am in desperate need of some frozen coconut and a foot massage on the beach. lol

anyways, i hear you. i also hear everyone else.

yes, i, personally am tired of explaining, but i can deal. but as i go through this thread and read the replies, i also see that in all of the answers there is the same message...no one knows what to call us and this leads to greater problems for more than just myself or anyone being tired of explaining who we are. it's about all of us in the community, not just the men.

case in point: if someone thinks i'm gay, then that, in fact, also mischaracterizes trans women and reinforces the mistaken belief that they are gay men n dresses...which is the farthest thing from the truth.

this goes beyond the partners of. we're all in this together. who we are in the eyes of the greater population directly relates to who everyone else in the community is in their eyes, as well. so, how do we form a cohesive group, a correctly identified group, with the societal and political muscle to make real change, not be x'ed out of bills like enda because, another case in point, because we are seen as human aberrations not as human beings.

so, yeah, as someone mentioned before, maybe i am taking myself and this a bit too seriously. i don't know. all i know is what i've seen other groups and communities do to make positive change...and gain credibility and 'acceptance' in the greater discourse. the men and women of this community are all individuals with different ways of looking at who we are, but until our message, our identifiers are on point and easily digested and understood, things won't change.

[DJ_Asia]

Honestly who gives a damn what others think about anyone's sexual preferences....none of their business and at the end of the day the only person you have to face in the mirror is yourself,and if you can live with what stares back at you then you've got a leg up on many folks.

I came out to my friends and family long agao,I mean it is a bit hard to keep what I do a big secret,but to the point my father thinks that im gay because I date TS's and I told him..."Hey if that gets you through the day,then knock yourself out"...gay,straight,bi,tri, whattever....

And E, you know I mean that in the kindest of ways...peace

hey dude!

i am sooooooo missing thailand right now! i am in desperate need of some frozen coconut and a foot massage on the beach. lol



Yeah compadre im missing the beach and coconut shakes too....been in Bangkok since forever shooting pix and having ladyboys jizz on my video camera's lens :lol: ....Off to Singapore in the AM,might check and see if there is any non Thai girls working The Tower.
Get yo azz back here I hear the Fish are spawning

[whatsupwithat]

I've always believed that sexuality is not black or white, there are many shades of grey.

right. so, let me ask you a question. if there was a scale where one end was white (we'll say that's 100% homosexual) and one side was black (100% straight)...and everything inbetween was different shades of grey where does trans fit in? what i mean to say is that our thinking is based on dualities and these are absolutes in how we go about our lives. we are beyond that here. as justatransgirl said...we have "transcended" the dualities.

[vietboy]

case in point: if someone thinks i'm gay, then that, in fact, also mischaracterizes trans women

I'm not convinced this is true. There are some guys who are married to women, but whom everyone nonetheless identifies as "gay." They are gay because of their own demeanor... nothing to do with, and no reflection on, whom they are with. These men act "gay"... the mannerisms and inflections that might be unconscious but nonetheless real.

I can tell from listening to you that you are "gay" in this sense. Not to put you down, but your closest friends probably would all agree that you're a bit histrionic and that there is a certain amount of theatrics in your obsessions... take your post from last night which prompted all this. Your mind is not that of a straight man. I'm not at all trying to be pejorative of your nature, and I hope this is no surprise, as you yourself admit that you aren't straight.

But I suggest you stop obsessing about all this and find some inner peace because labels aren't worth all that energy. If you must choose a label, maybe you should consider other Greek roots... metamorphosis means "change in form" in Greek. Perhaps you could call yourself a metasexual or metamorphosexual, or if you want to get a little kinky, maybe mammophallosexual (mammo=boob, phallo=cock), or could it be kyrakourosexual (kyrakouros = ladyboy) or korandrosexual (kora=girly, andro=man) or gyneandrosexual (gyneandro=feminine man/shemale) or gynephallosexual (gyne=feminine, phallo=cock) or megaphallodaimonsexual (megaphallodaimon=hung-angel) ...

Laugh at the absurdity of it all! :)

[flabbybody]

case in point: if someone thinks i'm gay, then that, in fact, also mischaracterizes trans women

I'm not convinced this is true. There are some guys who are married to women, but whom everyone nonetheless identifies as "gay." They are gay because of their own demeanor... nothing to do with, and no reflection on, whom they are with. These men act "gay"... the mannerisms and inflections that might be unconscious but nonetheless real.

I can tell from listening to you that you are "gay" in this sense. Not to put you down, but your closest friends probably would all agree that you're a bit histrionic and that there is a certain amount of theatrics in your obsessions... take your post from last night which prompted all this. Your mind is not that of a straight man. I'm not at all trying to be pejorative of your nature, and I hope this is no surprise, as you yourself admit that you aren't straight.

But I suggest you stop obsessing about all this and find some inner peace because labels aren't worth all that energy. If you must choose a label, maybe you should consider other Greek roots... metamorphosis means "change in form" in Greek. Perhaps you could call yourself a metasexual or metamorphosexual, or if you want to get a little kinky, maybe mammophallosexual (mammo=boob, phallo=cock), or could it be kyrakourosexual (kyrakouros = ladyboy) or korandrosexual (kora=girly, andro=man) or gyneandrosexual (gyneandro=feminine man/shemale) or gynephallosexual (gyne=feminine, phallo=cock) or megaphallodaimonsexual (megaphallodaimon=hung-angel) ...

Laugh at the absurdity of it all! :)

you use a lot of big words and fancy prose to disguise a truly bigoted point of view

[ARMANIXXX]

Good post whatsupwithat. You did a good job articulating the mislabeling of TS women. Actually taught me something in terms of how I might respond if I ever get spotted by a friend or co worker or something.


But I'll say this, family does muddy things up for many people. So, while you are blessed to have a supporting one, not everyone does, and One persons apple is in fact someone elses orange or lemon.....and those burn on contact.


Thank you for sharing, whatsupwithat.........very good, informing post here.

:2cent

[vietboy]

you use a lot of big words and fancy prose to disguise a truly bigoted point of view

I stipulate that certain behaviors exist that can be classified as "gay" and that there is nothing bigoted in saying so. Some dispute the existance of "gay" behaviors, just as some fire-breathing feminists dispute the existance of a sexual dichotomy.

I believe that I live in the real world though.

[tsmandy]

case in point: if someone thinks i'm gay, then that, in fact, also mischaracterizes trans women

I'm not convinced this is true. There are some guys who are married to women, but whom everyone nonetheless identifies as "gay." They are gay because of their own demeanor... nothing to do with, and no reflection on, whom they are with. These men act "gay"... the mannerisms and inflections that might be unconscious but nonetheless real.

I can tell from listening to you that you are "gay" in this sense. Not to put you down, but your closest friends probably would all agree that you're a bit histrionic and that there is a certain amount of theatrics in your obsessions... take your post from last night which prompted all this. Your mind is not that of a straight man. I'm not at all trying to be pejorative of your nature, and I hope this is no surprise, as you yourself admit that you aren't straight.



This is funny. I think he just called you an internet sissy.

I know plenty of women who only date trans-men (FTM) and nobody calls them tranny- chasers (except for me, because I like to fuck with my friends).

You are not a Transsexual. Sorry.

Just be glad that you figured out what you liked before you got too old and bogged down to enjoy it, and let everyone else play catch-up.

xoxo
Mandy

[whatsupwithat]

case in point: if someone thinks i'm gay, then that, in fact, also mischaracterizes trans women

I'm not convinced this is true. There are some guys who are married to women, but whom everyone nonetheless identifies as "gay." They are gay because of their own demeanor... nothing to do with, and no reflection on, whom they are with. These men act "gay"... the mannerisms and inflections that might be unconscious but nonetheless real.

I can tell from listening to you that you are "gay" in this sense. Not to put you down, but your closest friends probably would all agree that you're a bit histrionic and that there is a certain amount of theatrics in your obsessions... take your post from last night which prompted all this. Your mind is not that of a straight man. I'm not at all trying to be pejorative of your nature, and I hope this is no surprise, as you yourself admit that yoaren't straight.

But I suggest you stop obsessing about all this and find some inner peace because labels aren't worth all that energy. If you must choose a label, maybe you should consider other Greek roots... metamorphosis means "change in form" in Greek. Perhaps you could call yourself a metasexual or metamorphosexual, or if you want to get a little kinky, maybe mammophallosexual (mammo=boob, phallo=cock), or could it be kyrakourosexual (kyrakouros = ladyboy) or korandrosexual (kora=girly, andro=man) or gyneandrosexual (gyneandro=feminine man/shemale) or gynephallosexual (gyne=feminine, phallo=cock) or megaphallodaimonsexual (megaphallodaimon=hung-angel) ...

Laugh at the absurdity of it all! :)

lol! :P

i wouldn't say your comments about me are pejorative, but they are highly subjective and flawed. and, wow, for someone so dead set on not labeling, you sure put a lot of time and effort into attempting to paint me as something...and that's even before you get to the little naming party in that last paragraph. but don't get me wrong, i appreciate the effort. must have taken you awhile to cobble that post together. :D

the be all and end all of it is that this isn't about me or you, individually. it's about all of us, ya know?

ps - still laughing...thank you.

[whatsupwithat]

case in point: if someone thinks i'm gay, then that, in fact, also mischaracterizes trans women

I'm not convinced this is true. There are some guys who are married to women, but whom everyone nonetheless identifies as "gay." They are gay because of their own demeanor... nothing to do with, and no reflection on, whom they are with. These men act "gay"... the mannerisms and inflections that might be unconscious but nonetheless real.

I can tell from listening to you that you are "gay" in this sense. Not to put you down, but your closest friends probably would all agree that you're a bit histrionic and that there is a certain amount of theatrics in your obsessions... take your post from last night which prompted all this. Your mind is not that of a straight man. I'm not at all trying to be pejorative of your nature, and I hope this is no surprise, as you yourself admit that you aren't straight.



This is funny. I think he just called you an internet sissy.

I know plenty of women who only date trans-men (FTM) and nobody calls them tranny- chasers (except for me, because I like to fuck with my friends).

You are not a Transsexual. Sorry.

Just be glad that you figured out what you liked before you got too old and bogged down to enjoy it, and let everyone else play catch-up.

xoxo
Mandy

i know, it's funny, isn't it? ha! i'm enjoying it.

the FTM community is a completely different entity, i think, than the MTF one. lots more support and openness from the lesbian community...and some of the girls i know, damn, they put the men to shame.

so, transsexual. why no in your mind? it's an old term handed out by the medical and psychological communities when they just didn't get it. they still don't (aka GID).

someone postd what i wrote on another board. one poster got it right in her explanation of TREES. as much as we hate labels, can you imagine having to explain the concept of tree over and over to someone? that's what i'm getting at.

[TS DANIELLE FOXXX]

being open about who i am has led me to have zillion and conversations like this....and not just with family. business people, clergy, friends, acquaintances...the list goes on and on. oh, i could take the buddhist route and say, "it just is", but i think the world at large, society needs something more to hang their hat on. it's a fact that we, as human beings, communicate by words. we understand concepts through them. i'm just tired of explaining. i really am.

I am sorry I offend some of you when I call you fags, it is truly an endearing term to me, but when I say it to someone who I am pissed off at I truly mean they are acting like fags. You know... The shady queens who are bitter about life and have nothing better to do then spread attitude and hate.

Truth is... I admire your strength and more men should be like you. You are a truly deserving human being, living your life honestly. You are blessed and confident with who you are.

Every man and woman in this board and else where should aspire to your strength and devotion to living your life with your true self calling in your conscience.

I can keep going but you already know all this. I think a true man is one of strength, one who is true to himself and honest to those he loves.

No need to explain yourself, and if I did anything to upset you it truly was not meant for you... as you may know.

[whatsupwithat]

you use a lot of big words and fancy prose to disguise a truly bigoted point of view

I stipulate that certain behaviors exist that can be classified as "gay" and that there is nothing bigoted in saying so. Some dispute the existance of "gay" behaviors, just as some fire-breathing feminists dispute the existance of a sexual dichotomy.

I believe that I live in the real world though.

which one?

[vietboy]

i wouldn't say your comments about me are pejorative, but they are highly subjective and flawed. and, wow, for someone so dead set on not labeling, you sure put a lot of time and effort into attempting to paint me as something...and that's even before you get to the little naming party in that last paragraph. but don't get me wrong, i appreciate the effort. must have taken you awhile to cobble that post together. :D

the be all and end all of it is that this isn't about me or you, individually. it's about all of us, ya know?

ps - still laughing...hahahaha!
I appreciate your thoughts and I don't mean to indicate that I am "dead-set on not labeling". In fact, I think labels can be a fair, and accurate, way of summarizing many different clues about a person's nature. I just don't believe in getting too wound up by the labels. So, someone is "gay" or "straight", but his or her value as a person is not encompassed by the label, and a label should not restrict anyone. So someone who identifies as mostly straight should not be limited by this, or devalued in anyway. The various various identifiers for race are a sort of label, for instance. But hopefully no one will think less of President Obama because he identifies as a black man. Labels are part of day-to-day life but should never be used against anyone.

[whatsupwithat]

i wouldn't say your comments about me are pejorative, but they are highly subjective and flawed. and, wow, for someone so dead set on not labeling, you sure put a lot of time and effort into attempting to paint me as something...and that's even before you get to the little naming party in that last paragraph. but don't get me wrong, i appreciate the effort. must have taken you awhile to cobble that post together. :D

the be all and end all of it is that this isn't about me or you, individually. it's about all of us, ya know?

ps - still laughing...hahahaha!
I appreciate your thoughts and I don't mean to indicate that I am "dead-set on not labeling". In fact, I think labels can be a fair, and accurate, way of summarizing many different clues about a person's nature. I just don't believe in getting too wound up by the labels. So, someone is "gay" or "straight", but his or her value as a person is not encompassed by the label, and a label should not restrict anyone. So someone who identifies as mostly straight should not be limited by this, or devalued in anyway. The various various identifiers for race are a sort of label, for instance. But hopefully no one will think less of President Obama because he identifies as a black man. Labels are part of day-to-day life but should never be used against anyone.

right. i agree. see, obama couldn't refer to himself as a pink man. it's not in our scope of what exists in human labels. a label is a starting point as in my previous reference to trees. i could point to one and say to you, "that's a tree." if it was a tree, you would agree. now if we got into what kind of tree...this one's a maple, that's an oak, and so on...you would also understand while recognizing that they are all trees. apply that to human beings and voila! i know you know what i'm talking about...and i se where you're coming from. you are seeing the forest through trees...but to get there we have to see the trees.

[whatsupwithat]

I am sorry I offend some of you when I call you fags, it is truly an endearing term to me, but when I say it to someone who I am pissed off at I truly mean they are acting like fags. You know... The shady queens who are bitter about life and have nothing better to do then spread attitude and hate.

Truth is... I admire your strength and more men should be like you. You are a truly deserving human being, living your life honestly. You are blessed and confident with who you are.

Every man and woman in this board and else where should aspire to your strength and devotion to living your life with your true self calling in your conscience.

I can keep going but you already know all this. I think a true man is one of strength, one who is true to himself and honest to those he loves.

No need to explain yourself, and if I did anything to upset you it truly was not meant for you... as you may know.

i truly don't know how to respond except to say thank you. your words of support mean so much to me. as more and more men in the community find themselves and work towards expressing that self, it's the support and love of people like yourself who will truly make a difference...and are making a difference today. thank you. :)

[nicoleneuman24]

you're gay, eric!

[whatsupwithat]

you're gay, eric!

nerd!! :P

[mrironknee]

i wouldn't say your comments about me are pejorative, but they are highly subjective and flawed. and, wow, for someone so dead set on not labeling, you sure put a lot of time and effort into attempting to paint me as something...and that's even before you get to the little naming party in that last paragraph. but don't get me wrong, i appreciate the effort. must have taken you awhile to cobble that post together. :D

the be all and end all of it is that this isn't about me or you, individually. it's about all of us, ya know?

ps - still laughing...hahahaha!
I appreciate your thoughts and I don't mean to indicate that I am "dead-set on not labeling". In fact, I think labels can be a fair, and accurate, way of summarizing many different clues about a person's nature. I just don't believe in getting too wound up by the labels. So, someone is "gay" or "straight", but his or her value as a person is not encompassed by the label, and a label should not restrict anyone. So someone who identifies as mostly straight should not be limited by this, or devalued in anyway. The various various identifiers for race are a sort of label, for instance. But hopefully no one will think less of President Obama because he identifies as a black man. Labels are part of day-to-day life but should never be used against anyone.

right. i agree. see, obama couldn't refer to himself as a pink man. it's not in our scope of what exists in human labels. a label is a starting point as in my previous reference to trees. i could point to one and say to you, "that's a tree." if it was a tree, you would agree. now if we got into what kind of tree...this one's a maple, that's an oak, and so on...you would also understand while recognizing that they are all trees. apply that to human beings and voila! i know you know what i'm talking about...and i se where you're coming from. you are seeing the forest through trees...but to get there we have to see the trees.

I think that I will never see, a poem lovely as a tree.

Here's the deal. All guys that are into males are gay.
All guys that are into transsexuals are gay too, except me. (I hope)

I think that clears it up for everyone.

(ps - still smirking)

[vietboy]

see, obama couldn't refer to himself as a pink man. it's not in our scope of what exists in human labels.

Yes, I agree, but I dissent from this. Obama could call himself a pink man, on the basis of his pink-skinned mom or simply if he felt like calling himself a pink man because of what pink might represent to him. He'd have to burn some energy trying to articulate a rationale to those with blank expressions on their faces. Some might dispute him, just as some disputed the assertion that Bill Clinton is the first black president, because he's clearly not black skinned. Moreover, you invented a new meaning for transsexual and applied it to yourself, and Mandy disputed you. Who is anyone to argue with a burly guy who feels he's really a woman? It is an entirely subjective area, and we can be sensitive to the feelings of others in our descriptions... i.e, it's a fir tree who self-identifies as a maple. There is room for creativity and the trees should not get too tied up in knots about labels, because in the end they're all still trees.

[whatsupwithat]

see, obama couldn't refer to himself as a pink man. it's not in our scope of what exists in human labels.

Yes, I agree, but I dissent from this. Obama could call himself a pink man, on the basis of his pink-skinned mom or simply if he felt like calling himself a pink man because of what pink might represent to him. He'd have to burn some energy trying to articulate a rationale to those with blank expressions on their faces. Some might dispute him, just as some disputed the assertion that Bill Clinton is the first black president, because he's clearly not black skinned. Moreover, you invented a new meaning for transsexual and applied it to yourself, and Mandy disputed you. Who is anyone to argue with a burly guy who feels he's really a woman? It is an entirely subjective area, and we can be sensitive to the feelings of others in our descriptions... i.e, it's a fir tree who self-identifies as a maple. There is room for creativity and the trees should not get too tied up in knots about labels, because in the end they're all still trees.


ha! i love the little digs hidden in there. burly guy...that one brought a smile.

again, i agree with you and i see where you're coming from...but even your non-labeling relies on labels. there's really no way around it unless we all have one giant enlightenment and transcend our realities.

[vietboy]

Here's the deal. All guys that are into males are gay.
All guys that are into transsexuals are gay too, except me. (I hope)

Kind of funny how gay provokes such a visceral response. My Vietnamese friends can be called Asian, that's okay. Call them Chinese or Filipino and they'll usually correct the person in error as politely and casually as possible. But call them gay, even the ones who suck cock, and the gloves are off!

[mrironknee]

Here's the deal. All guys that are into males are gay.
All guys that are into transsexuals are gay too, except me. (I hope)

Kind of funny how gay provokes such a visceral response. My Vietnamese friends can be called Asian, that's okay. Call them Chinese or Filipino and they'll usually correct the person in error as politely and casually as possible. But call them gay, even the ones who suck cock, and the gloves are off!

Let me see if I understand you correctly;
You are Vietnamese, and you have friends who are also Vietnamese and are gay. These friends wear gloves at all times, but take them off to suck cock.

Thanks, got it!

[vietboy]

Let me see if I understand you correctly;
You are Vietnamese, and you have friends who are also Vietnamese and are gay. These friends wear gloves at all times, but take them off to suck cock.

Thanks, got it!

Praise Jesus for you literal minded people, because you nailed it! Your next challenge is to understand the New Testament!

[mrironknee]

Let me see if I understand you correctly;
You are Vietnamese, and you have friends who are also Vietnamese and are gay. These friends wear gloves at all times, but take them off to suck cock.

Thanks, got it!

Praise Jesus for you literal minded people, because you nailed it! Your next challenge is to understand the New Testament!

That's easy. Classic messianic underachiever with an anti-establishment complex. Creates a Grunge-like following (see Kurt Cobain) and then finally gets nailed by the man (pun intended). Revelations you ask? Just a bad trip.

Scoop of chocolate, scoop of vanilla. Don't waste my time.

[whatsupwithat]

Here's the deal. All guys that are into males are gay.
All guys that are into transsexuals are gay too, except me. (I hope)

Kind of funny how gay provokes such a visceral response. My Vietnamese friends can be called Asian, that's okay. Call them Chinese or Filipino and they'll usually correct the person in error as politely and casually as possible. But call them gay, even the ones who suck cock, and the gloves are off!

Let me see if I understand you correctly;
You are Vietnamese, and you have friends who are also Vietnamese and are gay. These friends wear gloves at all times, but take them off to suck cock.

Thanks, got it!

that was pretty funny. thanks.

[BeardedOne]

I'm late on to this and am too tired/lazy to read everything beyond the first couple of posts.

A friend that was married to a 3G (Gay GG) attended a seminar/event with his wife where she was approached by a reporter. During the interview, a question was asked that elicited the response: "Oh, yes, I'm a lesbian. But I am also married." The reporter naturally assumed that this meant 'married' to another woman. To which she replied, "Oh, no, I'm married to that man over there <Pointing>!". Of course, the reporter approached my friend and asked what it was like to be a heterosexual married to a lesbian.

"I'm not heterosexual" he replied.

"Oh...Then you are bisexual?"

"No, I'm not bi." was his answer.

Confused, the reporter asked "Are you homosexual as well?"

To which my friend replied "No, I'm just sexual" and walked away.

Labels are labels. Get the fuck over it.

[lazyman]

But what is the medical term for guys that like trannys? I'm not sure if I know that.


Gynandromorphophile or gynandromorphophiliac.

[whatsupwithat]

I'm late on to this and am too tired/lazy to read everything beyond the first couple of posts.

A friend that was married to a 3G (Gay GG) attended a seminar/event with his wife where she was approached by a reporter. During the interview, a question was asked that elicited the response: "Oh, yes, I'm a lesbian. But I am also married." The reporter naturally assumed that this meant 'married' to another woman. To which she replied, "Oh, no, I'm married to that man over there <Pointing>!". Of course, the reporter approached my friend and asked what it was like to be a heterosexual married to a lesbian.

"I'm not heterosexual" he replied.

"Oh...Then you are bisexual?"

"No, I'm not bi." was his answer.

Confused, the reporter asked "Are you homosexual as well?"

To which my friend replied "No, I'm just sexual" and walked away.

Labels are labels. Get the fuck over it.

good for him that he's found a label he's comfortable with. ;)

[tsntx]

It's pretty fucked up, I can't live the life I want to live with the woman I really want to be with at the risk of being shunned by family, friends and labeled a homosexual or bisexual.


That's why so many TS girls lack respect for so many guys. They are unwilling to give the same commitment for their life as the girls have already done.

The girls have risked it all, very few men do. That's why when you have a (gorgeous) guy like Eric that is willing to put himself on the line for what he wants, the girls fall all over him.

Willing to live your life on your terms is one of the sexiest turn-ons a man can do.


.

" yeah. exactly."

;)

[TS DANIELLE FOXXX]

I am sorry I offend some of you when I call you fags, it is truly an endearing term to me, but when I say it to someone who I am pissed off at I truly mean they are acting like fags. You know... The shady queens who are bitter about life and have nothing better to do then spread attitude and hate.

Truth is... I admire your strength and more men should be like you. You are a truly deserving human being, living your life honestly. You are blessed and confident with who you are.

Every man and woman in this board and else where should aspire to your strength and devotion to living your life with your true self calling in your conscience.

I can keep going but you already know all this. I think a true man is one of strength, one who is true to himself and honest to those he loves.

No need to explain yourself, and if I did anything to upset you it truly was not meant for you... as you may know.

i truly don't know how to respond except to say thank you. your words of support mean so much to me. as more and more men in the community find themselves and work towards expressing that self, it's the support and love of people like yourself who will truly make a difference...and are making a difference today. thank you. :)

Now... if you don't eat me out you are definitely tha geeeyyyy

[muhmuh]

right. so, let me ask you a question. if there was a scale where one end was white (we'll say that's 100% homosexual) and one side was black (100% straight)...and everything inbetween was different shades of grey where does trans fit in?

sqrt(black)?
assuming black is negative

[andyuk]

just let them label you what they want.
i dont think it really matters to be honest.
as long as you know what your abou.why let it bother you?
but your a good guy for being open about it,
the more people who are open,i feel will make life easier for the ladies on here.

[scroller]

right. so, let me ask you a question. if there was a scale where one end was white (we'll say that's 100% homosexual) and one side was black (100% straight)...and everything inbetween was different shades of grey where does trans fit in?

sqrt(black)?
assuming black is negative

So I think you're saying that it's all very complex.

[muhmuh]

not quite... i was going for the orthogonality

[whatsupwithat]

not quite... i was going for the orthogonality

possibilities there.

[hwbs]

damn where to start...i stopped trying to explain myself years ago....if someone is genuinely interested in finding about my life that is one thing...i will be more than happy to shed some light...i live my life for myself and no one else...next time i see my chick i will ask her what it makes me when i dick her down till she cant walk right....hey but i do make up a bath for her afterwards , hahahaha



E u are my boy....don't worry about it....if anyone asks i will be like "my friend Eric he loves to hump everything, lmfao" like u say humps bring smiles !!!!

[Coroner]

hey old straight brother. good to see you.

great points! yes, sexuality is related to gender, but we're caught in this dualistic way of looking at it. who we are is outside of the normal precepts of society and gender and sexuality...and people cannot grasp it. it's almost like we need a stephen hawking of gender to appear and write a book on string bikini theory. :P

I´d buy that book. :wink: What you said about people who don´t grasp "us" is related to anything else that appears as "unusual" in our societies. This leads to terminological creations of sub-cultures. People talk about gay cultures, gay societies which is wrong since homosexuality has always been part of humanity. Some folks create specific rules and treat anything "alien" to those rules with acts of exclusion.


seriously, though, i am all for living as i be. but if you go back to what truebeauty said earlier...as well as others...this goes beyond the individual and our individual choices and preferences and ideas of how we label and see ourselves. it's actually all about community and cohesion and support and moving forward as one, under one umbrella, in a positive way. 'i am what i am' and 'we are what we are' just doesn't cut it when there's nothing for those outside of our community to pin it to. we might as well be ether.

I second that. What you call a community in this context is a great idea but it´s just an idea. Frankly spoken, I´m not sure how many folks here have that community consciousness. We are all just humans and this community includes people like you who care, cockchasers, douchebags, nice guys, avaricious girls. People join a community to pursue personal interests and some really try to discuss important issues. This is a great topic and I wish we have more of these conversations. A community is much more than club parties and can be classified as one based on its beneficial character.
As for the "outside world", you can´t help it at all. The biologist and philosopher Humberto Maturana said that the observed depends on the observer. This means that whatever you say or write, the reader or listener will intepret it his way. You like TS but not men and you probably don´t label yourself as a gay man but there will always be people who will still call you a fag because they don´t recognize TS as women. They have no connections to this community which remains a sub-culture and it seems that "members" of this community don´t really try to change its position in its world. I do not blame anyone because I better start with myself.


btw, awesome about your sis. i may have painted a portrait of my sister that was a tad negative, but she really has been supportive. she just wants to understand...just like my nieces and nephews do. and they're not the only ones. i run across it all the time. it'd be great to give them clarity outside of rehashed buddhist sayings...that's all. :)

This is great, E. I´m jealous of such a great family and I hope for you that you can count on them forever. You have to prove your true competences and people will hopefully forget about such actually unimportant things like sexuality. Stay strong man.

[Paladin]

ME: "Well, there are medical terms which are negative. There are terms used by some of the trans women which are negative.

OK, we trannys call you a tranny chaser. I got that. :wink: xoxo


But what is the medical term for guys that like trannys? I'm not sure if I know that.


.

Cockmasters!

[salvador]

-

You're not alone .



i've brought this up before on this board and we didn't get anywhere...but here i am again repeating to you what has become a standard interaction for me with people outside the trans community.

my sister was in the city today and we had lunch. my family has always known of my sexuality and i've always introduced to them any trans women i was dating and serious about. they've also met many of my trans friends and we've all hung out together numerous times. they've always been supportive and i didn't think it was an issue. well, today, i learned that my sister was a little confused about who i am...sexually...and it became an issue.

the topic of my sexuality came up when my sister mentioned that my nieces and nephews has been texting each other back and forth lately about an interview i did where i discussed my sexual preference and my history in the trans community. apparently, they were confused as to my sexuality and when one of them asked their mother, my sister, she didn't know how to answer. she asked me.

SIS: "So, you're gay." (lol, i know, i know, i laughed too)

ME: "No. I experimented with men in the past when i was younger, but it wasn't for me. Never liked it."

SIS: "Then, you're bisexual."

ME: "No."

SIS: "You're not straight."

ME: "No."

(long pause)

SIS: "Then, what are you?"

ME: "There's no name for men like me."

SIS: "Nothing?"

ME: "Well, there are medical terms which are negative. There are terms used by some of the trans women which are negative. Some guys call themselves straight, others call themselves bi. But as for a definitive term...nothing. I've started calling myself transsexual. I think the term transsexual was misappropriated back in the day when they didn't understand too much...not that it has changed all that much out there. There's heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual which apply to sexuality, right? Trans is a bigger issue, not a sexual one. It's about the sex, who trans people are intrinsically, inside. It's not about sexuality. For me, it's about sexuality. It's my sexuality. So, if i liked women, I'd be heterosexual....men, homosexual...both men and women, bisexual...but transsexual...do you see what I'm saying?"

SIS: "So..."

ME: "Yeah. Exactly."


being open about who i am has led me to have zillion and conversations like this....and not just with family. business people, clergy, friends, acquaintances...the list goes on and on. oh, i could take the buddhist route and say, "it just is", but i think the world at large, society needs something more to hang their hat on. it's a fact that we, as human beings, communicate by words. we understand concepts through them. i'm just tired of explaining. i really am.

[Justawannabe]

Just wanted to say the OP was excellent, and really does address a weakness in our community.

In this case I mean community as a group that shares certain political, economic and social interests. If we don't choose some terms to be called we can't expect support from media or write law that defends us, as both need something to identify us by.

Whether we want terms specifically for each variation or not, we need them to move forward any agenda that protects us from an relatively ignorant majority. Education is a generational goal here, as that same majority has no need to try to understand us, so expect them to change only slowly, but we can achieve much more with a few legal battles, laws and media events.

On the personal side, I really wish we had a term for someone who is attracted to trans women (pre or post op) that is not at least vaguely insulting. (And lets face it... chaser and fag are both pretty negative nine times out of ten.)

I'm very open about who I like to date, have never used someone as a sex object... but the best I can expect to be called is a chaser. It adds to the rampant depression in our community if there is no good way to talk to each other, like every other form of damaged family around.

Aw... I'm just rambling... thankyou folks for the topic.

sean

[Arc-Angel]

E, I tried to hide my attraction for transgender ladys when I came to the point where i no longer could keep my feelings inside I had paid a price. I lost my job and was abandon buy close friends.I also think it was one reason for my alcoholism. now sober I am learning that you cant change how people see you, you just need to be yourself and let the chips fall where they may.lables are for close minded people and you my friend are far from close minded . so my point ,just be yourself and forget about what others think.

[Ecstatic]

a label is a starting point as in my previous reference to trees. i could point to one and say to you, "that's a tree." if it was a tree, you would agree. now if we got into what kind of tree...this one's a maple, that's an oak, and so on...you would also understand while recognizing that they are all trees. apply that to human beings and voila! i know you know what i'm talking about...and i se where you're coming from. you are seeing the forest through trees...but to get there we have to see the trees.

First of all: Hey Eric!! Long time no talk! I tried to reach you when I was in NYC back in April, but couldn't connect. Good to see you posting and to hear the updates on "T".

On topic: I recall a very in-depth discussion of this topic here a year or two back, which even came up with some rather clinical terms which may have technically addressed the issue, but only very awkwardly, such as transphillic (love of one of the same birth sex who identifies and presents as the opposite gender, but rather sounds clinically like a fetish), gyneandrosexual (gyneandro = female man, but then that is rife with linguistic mines), or gyneandromorphosexual (sexual attraction to one who has metamorphosed from male to female, but whew, what a mouthful...err, no pun intended). I recall each of these from that previous discussion, and each has been mentioned recently here and elsewhere, but none really satisfies.

The dichotomy in the community is obvious at every pass: transwomen are not gay men in frocks, they're women who were born with mis-matched genitalia. They are transsexuals. But you're right about the morphology of the terminology: hetero-, homo-, and bisexual all refer to the sexuality of the subject in terms of the physical type s/he is attracted to, but transsexual refers to the subject in terms of their identified sex (which is further confused all too commonly with gender). Yet transgender is too wide an umbrella, hence the use of transsexual (plus the historical fact of transsexual being used earlier than transgender).

Trees: this reminds me of an argument between a friend who is a landscape architect and one who is a landscaper regarding bushes vs. shrubs. To the landscaper (and most English speaking people) "bush" refers to any relatively small woody treelike plant. But technically, as the landscape architect argued, there is no such thing as a "bush": there are trees and shrubs. I won't belabor the point, but it has parallel here, as we are all fairly clear on what constitutes a tree and what constitutes a shrub, but what of that middle ground?

Bikini String Theory: love it! And how about the follow-up, A Brief History of Trans? This Hawking fellow must be a busy guy....

Cheers.

[bulldog]

It's pretty fucked up, I can't live the life I want to live with the woman I really want to be with at the risk of being shunned by family, friends and labeled a homosexual or bisexual.


That's why so many TS girls lack respect for so many guys. They are unwilling to give the same commitment for their life as the girls have already done.

The girls have risked it all, very few men do. That's why when you have a (gorgeous) guy like Eric that is willing to put himself on the line for what he wants, the girls fall all over him.

Willing to live your life on your terms is one of the sexiest turn-ons a man can do.


.


Some families are gonna be more understanding than others, i have read about familes that were so fucked up, that when they found out their son/daughter was gay/lesbian they have either tried to kill themselves or their child. Some will ban you from the family, some will just not talk to you anymore, some will look at you as diseased, and some will just understand. If you ask me, noone really wants to take a chance and lose their family, its very very hard to cut yourself off or be cut off from the people who you grew up with, and who raised you. Not everyone has the kind of guts or commitment to take a chance like that, hell MOST dont. Sometimes all it takes is the right woman/man to give a person the strength they need to put it all on the line

My thoughts on the matter, if it offends anyone, right now i am in the i dont care attitude, go ahead and send me an angry pm to get it off your chest.


Benjamin

[salvador]

If the term " heterosexual " includes both participants, and " Homosexual " also includes both participants, then the term " transsexual " would also include both participants.

[Odelay]

I've always believed that sexuality is not black or white, there are many shades of grey.

right. so, let me ask you a question. if there was a scale where one end was white (we'll say that's 100% homosexual) and one side was black (100% straight)...and everything inbetween was different shades of grey where does trans fit in? what i mean to say is that our thinking is based on dualities and these are absolutes in how we go about our lives. we are beyond that here. as justatransgirl said...we have "transcended" the dualities.

Excellent question, E. Probably deserves a post all in itself. Alfred Kinsey, back in the 50's when he was doing his work on sexuality, posited that sexuality could be defined on a scale of 1 to 5 (sorry, can't remember which end was which... and exuse the parenthetical pun).

If 1 is 100% heterosexual, then it seems to me that being attracted to trans is at least a 2 if not further to the center.

The funny thing is, even without ever experimenting with a gay encounter nor having any sexual attraction toward men, I always knew I was not a 1. For 10-15 years I would have probably self-defined as a 1.5 or 2.0, not really understanding why I'm not fully 100% heterosexual.

Then about 5 years ago I started feeling attracted to transsexual porn and "BANG" there it was. That was the source of the "2". It's not that I suddenly realized that I love cock. I'm just as much or more attracted to pussy. It's just that the cock does not make a difference to me. I guess I would say that I'm genital-neutral, if that makes any sense.

Great post, E.