Sex Change Surgery Regret

[Jasadin]

I thought this might be a good discussion/argument/debate to kick off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyRQpIZFymc&feature=related

So when is SRS the right or wrong choice?When is a doctor doing harm by not preforming or preforming the surgery?Who does the ultimate decision rely on the doctor or patient?

[peggygee]

I thought this might be a good discussion/argument/debate to kick off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyRQpIZFymc&feature=related

So when is SRS the right or wrong choice?When is a doctor doing harm by not preforming or preforming the surgery?Who does the ultimate decision rely on the doctor or patient?

The ultimate decision is with the woman, thus she needs to think long
and hard, and then think once again before she engages in something
so serious, and for the most part non-reversible.

[Jasadin]

But what if the ultimate decision to be a woman was made by a man who thought he was a woman or vice versa.If you watched the clip the doctor is getting sued by his former patient for preforming SRS.If he proves that he wasn't in his right mind then the doc's gonna be liable.maybe?

[LAGent4ts]

I was under the impression that in order to undergo SRS, an individual must have gone through a period of counseling and various mental and physical evaluations and not until these steps are accomplished (results reviewed and approved by doctors) may an individual move forward with the operation.

I suspect if the proper steps were not taken a doctor would not perform the operation and if he did, he could be subject to any number of consequences, including loss of license and legal action.

If the individual successfully passed all the pre requirements and elected to have the operation, I have a hard time understanding how a doctor could be responsible for a case of "buyers remorse."

Regardless, it appears to be an unfortunate situation for all concerned.

[TS DANIELLE FOXXX]

I like "it's" quote at the end.

" These people that had this done are not women, they are mutilated men. I am not arguing that these people are not in pain. I am not arguing they don't need relief. I have been there, I know what it's like. Whether amputating their body parts is the right therapy is what I am questioning. "

Notice he didn't use " I ". In psychologically this is done as a way to disconnect from your own problems, which in reality is that he made a personal choice to have a surgery, altering his body with the delusion it would bring him happiness, relief from depression, self acceptance...etc...

I went through that stage myself. I questioned if I made the right choice, but it was based on other's view of me, as he put it " a mutilated man ". Wether or not people chose to see me as one, I see myself as a complete individual - woman or man. One who made an individual choice as an adult to alter my body so that I can live a happier existence, aside from other's opinions and visions of me. I do not seek acceptance but happiness, within myself and my own life.

If he is unhappy with his personal choice that is on him. Ultimately he would have found ways to have the surgery aside from the proper guidelines. I know this because, in his words " I have been there ". My psychiatrist just signed on the doted line after interviewing me, but after I expressed my views clearly he had no problem doing so. Not only that but I am clearly a woman in his and society's materialistic/visual eyes.

The doctor is not responsible for his decision AT ALL.

To say, just because a clearly gorgeous and passible woman wants to be complete in her own skin makes her mutilated after surgery is ridiculous. So, if a person has his/her legs amputated they are not human? Or if I get a nose job or breast implants I became less human? Ultimately am I less human because I am transgender, further more, am I less responsible for my own choices because I blame others for my mistakes?

This is a bad analogy but here it goes... If someone picks up a gun and kills another, is he/she allowed to blame that on upbringing? Or are we right to say that someone is "clinically ill" after they shoot a person? Or would it be better to give someone proper punishment if they claim insanity pre-crime?

It is obvious he is extremely regretful of his own personal choice and deeply saddened by the outcome of his life. Who's to say that if he didn't get surgery he would still be a woman or gone back to being a man? Does it make him less of a man that he has a pussy? Are trans men less men because they don't have a penis? Am I just a man without a penis who dresses like a woman?

PERSONALLY, I think most of the time this happens is with the lesbian trans women. I met plenty in Thailand. Not that I am passing judgement, or basing this on any study. But many who got the surgery were like men. Their actions and mannerisms were that of men...They spoke of fucking women as men do. Of their post breast implant surgery massages as a sexual experience performed by "young thai girls". It was a time they all cherished. I have a big problem when professionals diagnose these individuals for sex change. But that is just me, and I truly believe that this individual in the documentary is one of those people. Someone who will never be happy no matter what path his life goes.

In any case. Just because he is bitter with the path he chose and wants someone to blame does not justify a lawsuit. It should be dismissed and on top of that he should continue therapy and teach himself how to admit fault and not pass his problems and bad judgement on others based on his misery and suffering.

I am extremely happy with my " mutilated parts ". Happier then I have been in a very very long time.

[peggygee]

I was under the impression that in order to undergo SRS, an individual must have gone through a period of counseling and various mental and physical evaluations and not until these steps are accomplished (results reviewed and approved by doctors) may an individual move forward with the operation.

I suspect if the proper steps were not taken a doctor would not perform the operation and if he did, he could be subject to any number of consequences, including loss of license and legal action.

If the individual successfully passed all the pre requirements and elected to have the operation, I have a hard time understanding how a doctor could be responsible for a case of "buyers remorse."

Regardless, it appears to be an unfortunate situation for all concerned.

Usually and hopefully a woman undergoes GRS after having counselling,
and evaluation, and deep and thorough introspection.

Unfortunately there are some women that convince themselve and others
that they are prepared for GRS. They may then find a surgeon
domestically, or one abroad where the Benjamin Standards Of Care aren't
as rigorously adhered to

As a post op woman myself, I can attest that GRS isn't for everyone, and
isn't the cure-all that some women believe.

To quote from Lynn Conway's A WARNING FOR THOSE CONSIDERING MtF SRS: (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html)

In the large majority of cases, transsexual (TS) transitions work out well
over the long-term, as we've seen in the many stories documented in
Lynn's Transsexual Women's Successes page. However, in some cases a
complete TS transition may totally fail to meet very unrealistic
expectations, and way too late the transitioner may realize that
undergoing sex reassignment surgery (SRS) was a BIG mistake.

Some examples of "wrong reasons" and wrong situations for undergoing
SRS are (i) efforts to become a center of attention and live a "sexy life",
(ii) thinking it will "automatically turn oneself into a woman" in others'
eyes, (iii) deciding to become a woman on a whim (for example, in the
midst of a mid-life crisis), (iv) doing it for autosexual "thrills", (v) doing it
while suffering from preexisting serious mental conditions unrelated to
GID (depression, bi-polar conditions,...), etc.

Regrets and adjustment difficulties seem to occur especially frequently in
the cases of older intense crossdressers and sexual fetishists whose drive
to transition is based primarily on male sexual feelings and habits. These
individuals will gradually lose their male libidinous responses to their new
female body as time passes after the removal of their testicles during
SRS. This loss of libidinous rewards, combined with accumulating
practical, social and emotional difficulties in postoperative life, can lead to
serious long-term adjustment difficulties for those who've "made a
mistake". (This effect is quite different from the experiencing of a
heightened female libido and improvements in lovemaking capability that
occur in many other postoperative TS cases).

The bottom line here is that EXTREME CAUTION is advised if you are
unsure of your motives for SRS.

[GroobySteven]

Ridiculous. What an idiot. He made a choice and now regrets it, to blame it on others is pretty pathetic. I'm feeling some religion in there somewhere ... maybe ?

I liked this comment :

"Based on so much evidence of regret so far, as a medical practiononer, I strogly believe srs should be completely stoped. therapist should invest more time effort and compassion in dealing with the real psychological issues, not alter the body."

Hmmm a "medical practiononer" who can't even spell? BULLSHIT!!!

[BrendaQG]

I can imagine just what Mr. Finch felt. Like what TS DANIELLE FOXXX said.

I went through a period where I started to feel kind of what Mr. Finch feels now. I did not have surgery all of my change has been achieved by hormones. So changing back simply meant stopping them...for four and a half years. I did it so I could get through life at a particularly transphobic UNIV. I thought I could whip through real quick. It ended up taking 3.5 years before I was done with them and another year of hormones and having laser before I felt I could live as a woman again. ( Say what you will about other people. I am not them. They are not me and they were not in exactly the same place I was.)

What went on with me, what's going on with him, and like has already been said... Mr. Finch and his case sounds more like a reaction to what other people thought of him as a TS woman. He may have loathed himself as a gay male.

Perhaps Finch should have never had surgery and just lived as a non-op woman. (Though that is an option many TS's of European decent do not take seriously for some reason.) Then he would not have been a mutilated, plain looking, man. Instead she could have been a really cunty fishy queen.

Basically, Finch, needed to learn self esteem and self love BEFORE having surgery.

[Hannibal Lecter]

Highly interesting thread. I'm also deeply convinced that MANY of those persons
around have similar issues, that simply are related to some form of human identity
crysis. That syndrome is very complex thing, and can be manifested in thousands of
differrent ways. Hovewer, personaly I think there is no way to cure that. Even the
guy on the youtube video probably still asks himself in front of the mirror - "who
the hell I really am". And if not, then the time will probably come for him to wind up
in doubt with himself again. But luckily, in most democratic societies today, there is a
freedom of choice. And that freedom helps that kind of people to choose their life long
paths. And usually, the majority of them make the right decision. They bravely choose their
path. That's very important. To choose a path. And it does not matter what path to pick,
but it's important to pick only one of many being "offered" by the brain.
And it should be one-way path. Only the one-way path might bring them to the happyness.

[lilly_exohexoh]

yeah i saw this a while ago. sucks for mr finch. he was totally hot.

[BeardedOne]

I have been fortunate that the post-op women I have known (Such as Peggy and Danielle) and those that I have met in person, have been comfortable/happy in themselves after their transition. I shudder to think how I might relate to someone who has had (As stated up thread) 'buyer's remorse' as I can barely imagine the kind of torture that might be.

On a side note, am I the only one that is disturbed by this ad-blurb on the related vids:

Male To Female Surgery
Find great deals and save! Compare products, prices & stores
www. Shopping .com

[Jasadin]

Here's an article with a little more insight about Finch.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/30/1062194756832.html

"He got married illegally and was later in another relationship that fell apart when his male partner discovered Helen was born a boy.

Then he had a relationship with a woman, who encouraged him to become a man again."

It seems more like he's suffering from a case of no identity disorder :?:

[Nowhere]

One thing I can't stand about these reports is the fact that 99% of people who get it do not regret it in such a way.

Literally thousands upon thousands are done each year, and while the SOC (Standards of Care) exist, you're going to get an incredibly small minority of people with other issues confused for GID, which is what this guy experienced. Actually, it seems like he didn't have the SOC applied to his case, so that might be what's really at fault here.

I still think, compared to most other medical treatments out there for any sort of issue, SRS is incredibly successful.

I mean, what's next?

Stopping all heart surgeries because some people do not improve from it?

Stopping all breast lifts because Donda West died of it?

How irrational can people be?

P.S. I was sympathetic to him until he branded all tgirls as "mutilated men" in the end. I mean, how hypocritical and arrogant can he get, presuming he knows what goes on in every one of your minds?

[phixer girl]

I usually don't have much to say on things, but this is serious stuff here.

Before even thinking of SRS, you have to be completely honest with yourself. Assuming you are of sound mind obviously, getting the OK from the shrink is the last thing that you should be worried about. You should think back to your childhood and how things were. I bet you every single, successfull transition, stemmed from the desire as a child. I know this was the case for me. Visiting the psycho was just a formality with me. I knew exactly what I was doing.

To this day I have honestly never even questioned MY choice to have SRS. I love my life.

The Finch guy has obviously serious mental issues that were missed. Perhaps this is his angle of contest - ALL HYPED UP FOR THE MEDIA OF COURSE.

Suffering from GID is not like trying on a pair of socks to see which ones fit. It's a very real and actual truama that exists from the first memories.

Finch. Fuck off. Go get some therapy and stop trying to outlaw the help available for the thousands of genuine GID sufferers.

On the other hand, the bloke is a headcase and so has no realization of what's going on. He should be pittyed if insane, or strung up if all the marbles are up top.

[phixer girl]

OOPS !

Sorry. Double finger trouble post.

[Leeloo]

I'm not sure how seriously to take his story. If he was mishandled by his doctors back then, then that's terrible. However his version of events now doesn't quite gel with what (s)he told the Australian 'Woman's Day' magazine back in 1989...

[justatransgirl]

Very moving story. I wish Helen the best. And this is precisely why the guy in Australia should not prevail.
Each person is unique and has a unique situation.

I'm curious of our friends in the UK as to if the comment that she would go to a male prison in the UK
if she was ever arrested because her birth certificate says she is male,
regardless of her genitals.

Here in CA I am considering financing a challenge to current law based upon the fact
that a transsexual should be housed according to their legal or perceived gender, not
what's between their legs.

Meaning, I have a penis, but the court says I am female. I am LEGALLY female. But yet
in CA if I was ever arrested, even though my birth certificate (will say) female, I would
also be housed in a male prison. How can either position be reconciled.

The war still has a long way to go.

Sigh,
TS Jamie :-)

[Leeloo]

Very moving story. I wish Helen the best. And this is precisely why the guy in Australia should not prevail.

@justatransgirl: in case it wasn't obvious, this is the same person.

[kalina]

Alan/Helen is a total idiot and a media whore. :)

[cantos03]

He said that at the end of the day, the decision rests with the man holding the scalpel.

I suppose he's technically right, but it was his (not the surgeon's) decision, and surgeons generally aren't qualified to make the call. All a surgeon has to go on is the recommendation of the psychologist, maybe a brief meeting with the patient, and the patient's decision.

[tghtpussybitch]

I'm sorry sweetie, but been house with females does not make it better

under the law in the states we go by sexual gender whats between the legs.

I have a pussy and to be honest I been arrested as a female and was housed with females
at the same time when I was a shemale i was house with men.

if you ask me I rather be with men their take care of you and you get to kiss etc etc .. I know I'm just saying that but It was fun when I was in all male population there were 4 of the girls 4 tgirls and we used to play cards I had my admirers when i would go take a shower guys would go and jerk off they would say I was a hermoprhodite lol that was a compliment. lol

when I was house with the females it was so boring lesbians everywhere
tt was nice to have friends without pressuring for sex and girls make good friends but having men around you makes time go by quicker.

nothings is better than freedom.










Very moving story. I wish Helen the best. And this is precisely why the guy in Australia should not prevail.
Each person is unique and has a unique situation.

I'm curious of our friends in the UK as to if the comment that she would go to a male prison in the UK
if she was ever arrested because her birth certificate says she is male,
regardless of her genitals.

Here in CA I am considering financing a challenge to current law based upon the fact
that a transsexual should be housed according to their legal or perceived gender, not
what's between their legs.

Meaning, I have a penis, but the court says I am female. I am LEGALLY female. But yet
in CA if I was ever arrested, even though my birth certificate (will say) female, I would
also be housed in a male prison. How can either position be reconciled.

The war still has a long way to go.

Sigh,
TS Jamie :-)

[SarahG]

But what if the ultimate decision to be a woman was made by a man who thought he was a woman or vice versa.If you watched the clip the doctor is getting sued by his former patient for preforming SRS.If he proves that he wasn't in his right mind then the doc's gonna be liable.maybe?

IMHO this really isn't a debate about srs or trans issues at all, although I can see how it would appear that way.

Consent law is pretty cut & dry in general, if you request a procedure of literally any kind (doesn't have to be trans related), and the surgeon impulsively goes along with it, and you later prove you were completely off the wall insane, you bet you can request damages in court (here, not all countries have malpractice law). This is why psyc evals and malpractice insurance comes in.

Er, I now realize this was a necroposting- so;



under the law in the states we go by sexual gender whats between the legs.


Generally speaking with corrections- you're right, your genitals will influence what they do to you if you become a prisoner in the United States.

But the notion that all the states determine your legal sex status (which is a different thing from what they do with you in prison) based on your genitals couldn't be any further from the truth. A lot of states will see a postop as legally female, but that's not always true- it certainly isn't in Ohio or Texas. There is no uniformity in these state laws, and it gets even less consistent when we're talking about marriage law. There are still more than one state here that will refuse to alter birth certificates for postops.

Did you hear about that GG (totally not trans in either direction) in Washington DC this past year or two that was sent to the male prison? She even flashed the guards to show she had a vagina, they didn't give a fuck. I think she sued them in the end but I dunno if she won or what she got for it. The guards claimed that she was "so ugly they thought she was a tranny" and once the case got picked up in the news they immediately fired a few guards over the mixup, but it makes you wonder about the cases we don't hear about. It was a news story (even AP picked up on it) only because she was a GG, if she had been some middle aged, unpassing postop I doubt it would have gotten into the papers. :shrug

As to what Jamie was talking about, she isn't a postop (if my memory serves me here). CA is one of those oddball states that doesn't always require SRS to be legally female. Thus a preop or nonop in California could find themselves in a male prison for their penis, while being legally female in the eyes of the state* (the feds are another story, CA's idea of what female is, isn't gonna fly with the SSA- their policy requires proof of srs to change your gender on social security databases, at least that is what they told me when I asked them about it).

[gunn]

I thought this might be a good discussion/argument/debate to kick off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyRQpIZFymc&feature=related

So when is SRS the right or wrong choice?When is a doctor doing harm by not preforming or preforming the surgery?Who does the ultimate decision rely on the doctor or patient?

The guy is a cunt :lol: