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chefmike
04-19-2008, 07:00 PM
Obama's Ayers Issue
John Ridley

Jeremiah Wright nontroversy? Not a problem.

Bitter clingy blue collar types, flag lapel pins? He can navigate those annoyances with ease.

But come November the Bill Ayers issue rushing up in Barack Obama's rear view mirror could be a real political problem.

A former member of the Weather Underground Organization -- a radical group responsible for a string of bombings in the early seventies - Ayers was a privileged kid turned domestic terrorist. Reformed and respectable Ayers is now an education professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, an informal advisor to Chicago's mayor and a past contributor to an Obama campaign. In Wednesday's debate Senator Clinton gave a preview of what to expect from conservatives come the general election should Obama take the nomination: accusations that Obama's cozy with radical liberals. There's not much the Clinton machine can do with the accusation seeing as President Clinton commuted the prison sentences of a couple of WUO members.

Conservatives will try to do considerably worse, and they'll have a lot to work with.

Back in the day Ayers was a radicalized liberal in the worst way. Not merely because he and his comrades turned to indiscriminate violence, but because of the reason they turned. Chiefly, their paternalistic belief that blacks could not secure civil rights without their helping, explosive hand to guide them. "Black people have been fighting almost alone for years," read the Declaration of War; the first communiqué of the WUO. "We've known that our job is to lead white kids into armed revolution."

Armed revolution.

Going metaphorically arm in arm with Dr. King -- as innumerable liberal minded folks of all persuasions did -- was not enough for the WUO. They had to blow stuff up. And they did it without regard for the fact that they were essentially spitting on the memory of a man who was committed to non-violence. Yes they were partially radicalized by the murder of Black Panther leader Fred Hampton at the hands of the Chicago police -- and Hampton was murdered. But many vented their very righteous anger without lighting fuses. But many, also, didn't fancy themselves modern John Browns leading otherwise helpless blacks to freedom.

The WUO claimed to want to avoid human suffering. But you can't express yourself with explosives without somebody getting hurt. Who got hurt were three of their own members. Blown up in an accident so tragic it's actually empty of irony.

But I'm sure at the time the WUO figured they were doing something noble.

And I'm sure Ted Kaczynski figured he was doing the same.

The issue, though, isn't what Ayers thought then, it's what he thinks now.

Read Ayers memoir Fugitive Days which was published -- in actual horrific irony - on September 10, 2001. Though I have to admit it's pretty well written, it's filled with more paternalism (A squad of cops in Cleveland had dragged Black men from a motel and shot them down in cold blood, and now we would, I thought, even the score.) and romanticism of what were ultimately terrorist acts. Ayers is also quoted after Sept. 11th saying that he has no regrets for his past actions, but rather he feels that "we didn't do enough." Take a gander at his website and see if you find contrition, or self-aggrandizement.

What someone did forty years ago -- within reason -- should not damn them forever. But that's assuming the offending individual pays their debt to society and repents. Ayers has done neither.

I genuinely hope Obama's got as much distance as humanly possible between himself and Ayers, and that Ayers is just, as Obama said in the debate, "a guy who lives in my neighborhood."

I do not in any way, shape or form want Obama's Willie Horton to be a former terrorist/current elitist who feels compelled to once again even the score for a black man.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-ridley/obamas-ayers-issue_b_97477.html

BrendaQG
04-19-2008, 10:47 PM
Hmm that guys right in my front yard. I think I'll look him up.

BrendaQG
04-19-2008, 10:53 PM
dp oops

hippifried
04-20-2008, 12:32 AM
What someone did forty years ago -- within reason -- should not damn them forever. But that's assuming the offending individual pays their debt to society and repents. Ayers has done neither.
Huh? Well apparently he must have done something, because everybody knows who he is & the State of Illinois signs his paycheck.

But no matter. Ridley's full of shit. If the republicans want to start this guilt by association crap, they might find that the voters get a little more upset when somebody deliberately has business dealings with crooks than when someone has conversations with somebody that was a college radical. This tactic won't work, but it may just be the only thing the republicans have.

hippifried
04-20-2008, 12:35 AM
dp oops
Yeah. I've heard that before, butteye didn't mind. :lol:

Cuchulain
04-20-2008, 05:37 AM
Well, as a political junkie, I think it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. Just how angry are the American people about the Iraq debacle? Not as angry as we were during Viet Nam, obviously. I don't see anyone taking over ROTC buildings or bombing them. Are we 'mad as hell and not going to take it anymore'? There is no draft and casualties are much lower. Will we elect Obama in a landslide?

As someone who cares deeply about the future of America and the world, I'm worried. Anyone who's been paying attention knows what's going to happen. Rightwing 527 groups will swiftboat the hell out of Obama while McCain distances himself from the mud-slinging and claims the 527s have no affiliation with his campaign and he can't control them. They'll bring up the Weathermen, Rev. Wright, flagpins, Mrs. Obama's comments and of course they'll claim Obama's talk of raising the earnings cap on Social Security above the current $98k is 'raising taxes on working people'. How dumb are today's Americans? Will they fall for this shit?

I have no doubt that election fraud will be massive. Diebold machines will 'malfunction'. Vote caging will occour.Flyers, mailings and phone calls in low income Democratic areas warning that police will be at polling places waiting to arrest anyone with an outstanding warrant, even for traffic offences will be utilized. Dem voters will get official looking notices that their voting day or polling place has been changed 'due to expected record turnout'. All these tactics were used in 2000 and 2004. Only a massive win for Obama will guaratee him a victory that can't be stolen. Think I need a tinfoil hat? I almost wish that were true. These things have all been documented, with no outcry from the mainstream media.

chefmike
04-20-2008, 07:57 AM
What someone did forty years ago -- within reason -- should not damn them forever. But that's assuming the offending individual pays their debt to society and repents. Ayers has done neither.
Huh? Well apparently he must have done something, because everybody knows who he is & the State of Illinois signs his paycheck.

But no matter. Ridley's full of shit. If the republicans want to start this guilt by association crap, they might find that the voters get a little more upset when somebody deliberately has business dealings with crooks than when someone has conversations with somebody that was a college radical. This tactic won't work, but it may just be the only thing the republicans have.

I hope that you're right, but nevertheless Obama's Ayers and Wright associations are a godsend for all the Lee Atwater and Karl Rove types working for McSame. I certainly think things like this and the elitist crap have started to damage Obama already, and could also continue to dog him in the future. Meanwhile, McSame & Co. are getting a free ride by the press whilst they are sitting in the proverbial catbird seat. I for one will never underestimate the dems ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...

Oli
04-20-2008, 07:41 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that being 'Elite' is a bad thing. You would think that being excellent in your chosen field would be a good thing, not something to hide. I, for one, would like the people running for the highest office in the land to be the 'Elite', to be smarter, more politically adept, more open minded and flexible than the average individual.

An average man has been in the White House for the last 7 years, and where has that gotten us?

trish
04-20-2008, 08:43 PM
Here's the gist a of comment made on Bill Maher the other night: George Bush was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, got into Yale as the child of an alum and inherited the presidency. But since he's an illiterate alcoholic with a swagger, he's not elite. :roll:

Cuchulain
04-24-2008, 05:30 AM
"And awaaaaay we go....." (with apologies to Jackie Gleason)

A Willie Horton Hit on Obama? http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1733873,00.html

Willie Horton ad creator takes credit for Clinton win in PA, unveils new attack aimed at Obama, Clinton
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Conservatives_rolling_out_attack_ads_aimed_0423.ht ml

Attack ads on Obama in NC generate controversy, outrage
http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2008/04/23/attack-ads-on-obama-in-nc-generate-controversy-outrage/

Meanwhile:
Hagee calls Katrina ‘curse of God’
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24282641#24282641

yodajazz
04-24-2008, 11:30 PM
"And awaaaaay we go....." (with apologies to Jackie Gleason)
.................
Meanwhile:
Hagee calls Katrina ‘curse of God’
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24282641#24282641

Pastor John Hagee is definitely on my watch list. I have personally heard him say many things which infuriated me as has broadcast were on in my home for a regular basis for a time. However until viewing the link I did not know that he said that New Orleans was struck by the Hurricane because they were going to have a Gay Pride parade the next day. I was aware that he had said the city was struck by God, but unaware of the exact context.
Thanks for the link.

But how about this: A more direct cause and effect link can be attributed to the resources of protection (levees) were diverted because of a war started under false pretenses. But Pastor Hagee justifies war directly with his own words, to his congregation and over the air waves. I have said here before, I heard him call people in the Middle East “barbarians” (excluding Israel). So therefore he is partially responsible for the debacle of what happened in New Orleans. For those that might not be aware he has endorsed John McCain.

I think people like Hagee turn as many people away from religion as they may help. I cannot blame a person for being non religious for the nonsense people like him put out.
I am a religious person, but I believe in positive principle like Love, Charity and Justice for all people.

On a personal level, I think that I need to back away from politics, because the hypocrisy is sickening. I saw an ad which will be circulated to conservatives in North Carolina, which criticizes Obama for not voting on a act to increase death penalties on gang related murders in Illinois. The video is called “Victims” and uses the victims of a murder to and portray Obama as weak. Who knows what the specifics of that bill really were? And would it have really prevented those tragic deaths?

http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2008/04/23/attack-ads-on-obama-in-nc-generate-controversy-outrage/

But more importantly, as those victims are publicized, what not showing coffins of American war dead? And on a larger scale, what about not showing the plight of the Iraqi people who are living with 80 to 90 thousand war dead? Major American media does not even keep track of Iraqi war dead. The hypocrisy is sickening. And a scarier thought is trying to understand its real life consequences.

Cuchulain
04-25-2008, 04:36 AM
the plight of the Iraqi people who are living with 80 to 90 thousand war dead?

more like 1,201,597 - pretty staggering number, eh?
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html

yodajazz
04-25-2008, 08:16 AM
the plight of the Iraqi people who are living with 80 to 90 thousand war dead?

more like 1,201,597 - pretty staggering number, eh?
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html

Here is my source. http://www.iraqbodycount.org

Cuchulain
04-25-2008, 06:53 PM
I don't know, my friend. 1.1 million deaths is a pretty big disagreement. Both sites have their supporters and detractors. I'm certainly not qualified to decide which is closer to the correst figure.

The site you're using doesn't believe the Lancet (I remember hearing people from Lancet on NPR some time ago, explaining their figures - sounded pretty convincing imo) study while the site I posted does. There's a statement on the IBC site (that I can't find again atm, dammit) saying there are usuing minimum figures. and the real number may be twice as high - which still leaves a difference of 1 million dead. Political ideologies are no doubt involved on both sides. Amazing, and sad, that the world media can't give us a reasonably accurate count.