Canadian health care

[q1a2z3]

First of all

1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96. for Fred and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What they don't tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the health care system afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that and I am not sure of the exact amount goes directly to health care our #1 expense.

2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you "yes indeed you are sick or you need an operation" but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road.

3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take- not what is causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government re-reimbursement

4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.

5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment.

6) Fred's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to pay $125. for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60. for each visit for him to check it out each week.

7) Fred's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list . Died before he could get treatment.

8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government then money suddenly appears.

9)The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.

10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in his leg but because he is a smoker they will not do it. Despite paying into the health care system all these years. My friend is 65 years old. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health care costs.

11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.

12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figger. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get healthy.

13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums.

14) Oh yeh we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy. Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not covered by the health care system.

I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in the states you will be hearing more and more about universal health care down there and the advocates will be pointing to Canada. I just want to make sure that you hear the truth about health care up here and have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when broached with this subject.

Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have.

Several years ago, I went to Deaconness Hospital here in Cincinnati to visit with a friend. He had just returned from an extended visit in England. While there, he had what the doctors thought was probably a heart attack. I was talking with his wife. She said they went to the doctor who thought he probably had a heart attack, but couldn't be totally sure as he did not have an EKG machine in his office.
The doctor explained that there was a 3-month wait to get into a hospital, regardless of your problem. They asked if the doctor thought he could make it back to the states. They arranged a flight as soon as possible. His wife said he had a rough time of it, and they had an ambulance waiting at the Greater Cincinnati Airport to bring him straight to Deaconness Hospital. He did recover. She went on to explain that there was no incentive for a doctor to buy any expensive equipment as it would put nothing more in his pocket to do so. That certainly opened my eyes to the "lackings and failures" of a socialized medical system. Someone once said, "If you think medical treatment is expensive now, you should see what it costs when it's free."

[Oli]

Just a few things...

-The "author" complains about paying $96/month...the average premium in the US is $367/month for singles, $1008 for a family of 4.

-The US ranks 37th in the world for health systems, behind all of Western Europe (France and Spain are 1 &2, the UK 18th), such powerhouses as Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Costa Rica and Chile. Canada ranks 30th.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html

-The US spend 16% of GDP annually of health care. That's 4 times what is spent on the military. That's $2,300,000,000,000 per year. The United Kingdom spends 6% of GDP and ranks significantly higher than the US.

-There are 47 million uninsured people in America, 15% of our population.
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

-The US ranks behind Cuba in infant mortality rates.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

-We have socialized medicine already (Medicare and Medicaid) that our taxes pay for.

-Scare tactics only work on the weakminded.

-Nice xenophobic comment (oh shit, the immigrants are coming!)

-Who's Fred? Is that the priest you blow after confession?

[qeuqheeg222]

family doctor????and pills prescribed out the ass??sounds familiar..

[Cuchulain]

Well done, Oli. You scored a first round knockout. This is just another of those bullshit emails that floats around the net with no links or proof. q1a2z3 is a pinhead whose only apparent joy in life is finding ways to piss people off.

Just one clarification, if I may: Medicare is not socialized medicine. Medicare allows you to go to any doctor or hospital you choose. In a socialized system ( like the VA ) the government owns the hospitals and employs the doctors, nurses, etc.

[Quinn]

Speaking as someone who has business partners who are Canadian, and who has spent a considerable amount of time in Canada over the years, it has been my experience that their health care system is far superior to our own. In fact, the Canadians I know don't envy our health care system in the least – they actually make fun of it.

-Quinn

[guyone]

If healthcare systems all over the world are so much better than ours why then do all these foreigners keep coming to the US for treatment?

Good post 'q1a2z3'.

[trish]

The U.S. still has excellent doctors and medical schools. The few non-citizens (and it's not all that many by proportion) that come to the U.S. for treatment come for the doctors, not the health care system. As far as I can tell, our system doesn't cover visiting aliens. On the other hand U.S. citizens visiting France, England and Canada are covered by the systems of those respective countries. How many people come to the U.S. from those countries explicitly for medical treatment in proportion to say the Middle East? When they do come, do they give up the medical coverage of their home country? Anyone know? Where are all these foreigners? How come whenever I visit the hospital most the "foreigners" are in fact doctors, not patients?

Seems to me q gave some reasons why we need a much more comprehensive health care system than we've got now.

[chefmike]

George W. Bush 4 More Years!

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/not-your-name/retards.jpg

[q1a2z3]

Hey Cuchulain, I do enjoy pissing off liberals, Godless hippies, perverts, etc... Looks like I pissed you off!
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

[Cuchulain]

No problem, my microcephalic friend. I'm glad I could bring some small measure of joy into your pathetic imitation of a life. Just remember, I'm laughing AT you, not with you.

[redviper37]

-The "author" complains about paying $96/month...the average premium in the US is $367/month for singles, $1008 for a family of 4.
Sorry to barge in like that... but, that amount is that only to pay for the doctor's fees or does it pays for medications you need, hospital room, etc, etc?

'Cause here, while health care is technically free (don't forget how much taxes we pay, I wouldn't call that free), you only have a room with 3 other people for free. A double occupation room is about 100$/day. You need an insurance for your medication (govnt' insurance for Quebec is about 600$/year for a single person, pays 80% of the cost of drugs and is mandatory). And I need invalidity insurance, to cover my wages while I'm sick. And life insurance too. And sometimes an insurance that cover other health care services (ambulance, chiropractor, physiotherapy, etc, etc). If everything is covered in your 367$/month, that makes the difference gap a bit narrower.

I should point though that I don't understand the 96$ premium. Hospitals are free, they can't charge you for health care, it's forbidden by law and you can't get a private insurance so long as the government puts on a smoke mirror saying he can offer the services (ah, to cheat a Supreme Court ruling, hospitals now have 2 waiting lists. First, you're put on the waiting list to be on the waiting list, since the official one is capped, as to avoid having 8 months waiting time for your chimiotherapy. So you wait 6 months before they call you and schedule an appointment in 2 more months.

A doctor is not allowed to practice both in the private sector and in the public sector; combine that with a quota on the number of surgery he can perform in a day/week, and you have a nice shortage of doctor...

A typical US surgeon will operate 4 days a week and meet his patients once per week. A typical Canadian surgeon will operate 1 or 2 days a week if he's lucky.



-The US ranks 37th in the world for health systems, behind all of Western Europe (France and Spain are 1 &2, the UK 18th), such powerhouses as Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Costa Rica and Chile. Canada ranks 30th.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html

Last i checked, Canada & US ranked about equal. One is "free" but you can't get treatment in time. The other is costly but you can be treated.

None is perfect. The US system is certainly flawed, but the Canadian one ain't any better, far from it. I'd much rather have a US system myself than a Canadian one. At least there is hope of it getting better.



-The US spend 16% of GDP annually of health care. That's 4 times what is spent on the military. That's $2,300,000,000,000 per year. The United Kingdom spends 6% of GDP and ranks significantly higher than the US.

And notice that in the UK, France and most European countries, the citizens have access to both private and public healthcare. Unlike Canada. I am forbidden by law to contract an insurance for healthcare, despite a Supreme Court ruling (Chaouilli ruling) that slammed the government for not offering the services it promised us. I can't see a specialist before seeing a doctor first. I have to wait 2-3 months to see a family doctor, and I'm still lucky to have one. Once he retires, there's no way I'll get another one.

The US system is largely inefficient, because people not covered by insurance end up being treated anyway (when was the last time a doctor refused to treat a patient?), and some of them will never be able to pay, resulting in either a loss for the hospital/clinic or a bankruptcy for the client. These costs should not be ignored.

However, the idea that everyone tomorrow would have a free access to healthcare... well, you have to take into account that it will represent a significant drain on public finances. When it's free, people rush there. It is not uncommon in Canada that homeless people will go to the ER just because it's more comfy than the street. It's not uncommon either that lonely people will go to the ER just to chat with someone.

I think the best system would have the patient pay a small fee whenever they walk into the ER (well, let's say for non life threatening injury, say a cold for example; if you walk in with a knife in your back, it's a different story ;) ). That way, you reduce the burden on the public treasury, and avoid some of the problems that come with universal health care (overconsumption).

[Quinn]

Informative post, Viper37. Welcome to the discussion.

-Quinn

[BrendaQG]

Yes welcome. Thankyou for shedding light in a place where more often we just generate heat.

[q1a2z3]

Since liberalism is a mental disorder, it doesn't matter who or what you laugh at, just as long as you seek help.
I celebrate my diversity everyday: I'm a straight man, I am white and proud, I am a Christian. I believe God created the world in 6 days. I believe in a young Earth - 6,000 to 20,000 years old. I am a conservative. I am in the diversity group who has created the most inventions in the history of human kind - not to mention the most important inventions like cars, guns, going to the moon, etc...

The Apollo 8 Crew read from the Holy Bible when they saw the Earthrise for the first time in Human History.

Bill Anders read Genesis 1:1-4. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, 'Let there be light:' and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

Jim Lovell took the next four verses. "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And God said, 'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.' And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

Frank Borman finished with, "And God said, 'Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear': and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas: and God saw that it was good."

[chefmike]

I celebrate my diversity everyday: I'm a straight man, I am white and proud, I am a Christian.

It's Larry Craig!

Lock your stall doors!

[trish]

Since liberalism is a mental disorder...

I'm a straight man, I am white and proud, I am a Christian. I believe God created the world in 6 days. I believe in a young Earth - 6,000 to 20,000 years old. I am a conservative. I am in the diversity group who has created the most inventions in the history of human kind - not to mention the most important inventions like cars, guns, going to the moon, etc...

The Apollo 8 Crew read from the Holy Bible when they saw the Earthrise for the first time in Human History.

Bill Anders read Genesis 1:1-4....
Jim Lovell took the next four verses....
Frank Borman finished...

Belief is not evidence. Belief is completely independent of truth. The fact that some people believe X, even if some of those people are celebrities, is not evidence for X. Proof by authority was debunked in the Middle Ages. So there's really no need for either of us to wheel out our long lists of celebrity theists, atheists and agnostics.

Moreover, it matters very little that you or I belong to a group of people who've achieved some marvelous things (by the way...I didn't know you were part Chinese...as they invented guns shortly after their development of gunpowder). So you're a christian. They've done some good and bad. But what have YOU done. I'm a scientist. They've done some good (like many of those wonderful inventions of which you speak) and some bad. But I can take credit for neither.

I won't bother to refute your assertion that liberalism is a mental disorder, because I know you only meant it as it insult. It was rather tired and childish as insults go. You should give credit to Woody Allen: one of his movie characters succumbed to conservatism because of a brain tumor.

[BrendaQG]

@ Trish

You tell him sister!

[BrendaQG]

Oops! DP

[hippifried]

Isn't it fascinating how many "straight" Christians hang out in here? Even wierder is when they accuse others of being mentally disturbed.

[Oli]

Isn't it fascinating how many "straight" Christians hang out in here? Even wierder is when they accuse others of being mentally disturbed.

Isn't that called 'projection' in psychological terms Hippi?

Hey Red, welcome on board. I have no idea where, outside of the OP, the $96 came from. The numbers I posted came from the cited sources. I wasn't advocating a purely Canadian style health care system for the US, just trying to help the myopic original poster see that there are serious problems in our system.

*edit*

The coverage for the $367/month varies greatly depending on the plan you or your company (if you have a company plan) sign up for. It should cover major medical, hospital and routine doctor visits. A co-payment may be required. It many include dental and some others i.e. Chiropractic, Wellness etc. Prescription drug coverage may or may not be included. Life insurance is a completely different animal, as is supplemental insurance.

[hippifried]

Isn't that called 'projection' in psychological terms Hippi?

I wouldn't know. Let me double check my handy dandy Tom Cruise/Dr Phil 'How to be a Psycho-Ho' quick reference guide. Oh there it is: "Projection - see Ass-Tral" Oops! I used that page when I ran out of toilet paper one day. Oh well. I guess I'll just have to look it up another way if I ever go crazy & think psychology might be interesting before I die.

[Oli]

I wouldn't know. Let me double check my handy dandy Tom Cruise/Dr Phil 'How to be a Psycho-Ho' quick reference guide. Oh there it is: "Projection - see Ass-Tral" Oops! I used that page when I ran out of toilet paper one day. Oh well. I guess I'll just have to look it up another way if I ever go crazy & think psychology might be interesting before I die.

Hey mate, my comment was in reference to our unbalanced, God fearing, donkey fucking friend, not you. I find your posts rather enjoyable, although I don't always agree.

http://i9.tinypic.com/81ti9tl.jpg

[q1a2z3]

Hey oli, you perverts have been screwing up the country for years. Some of us are tired of it. Why wouldn't I hang out here? I been working on putting together a group of Christians to periodically go camp in the the bathhouses around America and hold prayer meetings in them. Maybe then all the "special rights" for perverts and "pervert marriage" will go away? They might be so sick of seeing Christians who are not afraid of them they might get back in the closet. Disney World needs the same thing. There isn't a viable society on the face of the planet that has legalized perversion. europe is a good example. Very few children being born. muslems all over the place no one with the guts to deport them.

[q1a2z3]

Wrong again oli. That's mohammad fucking the donkey.

[hippifried]

They might be so sick of seeing Christians who are not afraid of them they might get back in the closet.
I doubt they'll be seeing much of that. Christianity is based on fear. There's nothing they're not afraid of. That's why we have weenies like you sniveling about things you have no control over & no understanding of. But not to worry. God'll handle everything. As soon as she finishes putting you into the deepest regions of hell for salavating & jacking off to all those big dicks as you bang your ass with that dildo. Might as well go find yourself a real cock to cornhole ya. You know you want it. Or maybe all that jizz you swallow & lick off the walls while lurking in the arcades is enough.


Hey Oli,

Love the peace GIF. I put the snag on it. Hope you don't mind. It'd've been nice to have had good graphics like that back in the day. gotta thank all those hippies for inventing the personal computer & the internet.
:lol:

[trish]

Wrong again q...there weren't any cameras in the time of the Prophet Mohammad. Just because it's in YOUR mind doesn't mean it represents reality.

There are, however, cameras in our time. NYT ran a beautiful pic yesterday of Bush at the NATO summit meeting. Normally the president of the U.S. would have his bent by every attendee. These world leaders shun him like he's the Anti-Christ. Everyone seems loath to talk to this idiot. The pic is a metaphor of our current standing in the world. Thanks to Bush, we're the jerks and losers no one wants to associate with.

[q1a2z3]

Hey hippifried, it's call transference. You think about what you do on this site and then think everyone else does too.

[hippifried]

Hey hippifried, it's call transference. You think about what you do on this site and then think everyone else does too.
Bullshit! You would have never found this site if you hadn't been wallowing in the tranny porn all over the internet in the first place. You're just another self-depricating closet queen that's too scared to come out even in a place where it would be anonymous & socially acceptable. For all your bullshit & bluster, you've got no balls at all.

[tsafficianado]

great post oli. i suppose next time your feeling poorly you'll be heading to andorra or brunei for treatment.
as usual (always) the libtards take the simple-minded perspective. if not for the medical system in the good ole u s of a most of the world would still have a life expectancy of about fifty years due to rampant spread of diseases like typhus and tetanus and diptheria and malaria and polio and smallpox. oh, my bad, everyone knows the portugese and the chileans and the croatians and the thai cured all those diseases. and of course we can credit the uar and the finns with all the big advances in transplant surgery and artificial hearts. wake up boneheads, if not for medical research in the usa the medical systems around the world would still be relying on leeches and juju beads for cures. how stupid are you people, really?

[trish]

Among 33 industrialized nations, the United States is tied with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia with a death rate of nearly 5 per 1,000 babies. Latvia's rate is 6 per 1,000.

Country Life Expectancy

Sweden 80.6
Switzerland 80.6
Canada 80.3
Australia 80.6
Italy 79.9
France 79.9
Spain 79.8
Norway 79.7
Israel 79.6
Greece 79.4
Austria 79.2
Germany 79
U.S.A. 78

In fact transplant surgery was advanced in South Africa, not the U.S. and U.S. has opted out of embryonic stem cell research. Thanks to the Stupublicans, the U.S. is falling behind scientific and medical research. Addendum: We do lead the world in the treatment of gun-shot wounds. Many doctors outside the U.S. have never seen a gun-shot wound and have no experience treating them. Bush's rogue team of nations that joined us in Iraq had to send their doctors to the good ol' U.S. of A. to learn how to treat gun-shot wounds. We now also lead the world in research in prosthetics.

[Oli]

great post oli. i suppose next time your feeling poorly you'll be heading to andorra or brunei for treatment.
as usual (always) the libtards take the simple-minded perspective. if not for the medical system in the good ole u s of a most of the world would still have a life expectancy of about fifty years due to rampant spread of diseases like typhus and tetanus and diptheria and malaria and polio and smallpox. oh, my bad, everyone knows the portugese and the chileans and the croatians and the thai cured all those diseases. and of course we can credit the uar and the finns with all the big advances in transplant surgery and artificial hearts. wake up boneheads, if not for medical research in the usa the medical systems around the world would still be relying on leeches and juju beads for cures. how stupid are you people, really?



Obviously not quite as stupid as you are.

-Edward Jenner, from ENGLAND, developed the smallpox vaccine in the late 18th century.
-Rudolf Weigl, a POLE, developed the vaccine for typhus in 1930.
-The most effective malarial vaccine to date was developed by Manuel Patarroyo, a COLUMBIAN.
-Gaston Ramon, a FRENCHMAN, was the key figure in the development of both the tetanus and diphtheria vaccines in the 1920's.
-Jonas Salk, an AMERICAN, developed the vaccine for polio in 1955.

Wow, the "good ole u s of a" really dominates that list!!!!

There is no working artificial heart, however the first successful LVAD was developed by Domingo Liotta, an ARGENTINEin 1961. Dr. Willem DeVries, an AMERICAN was the first to put a complete artificial heart into a patient, who lived for 112 days with the heart. The most successful artificial heart to date is the Berlin Heart.(named for the city where it was developed)that would be Germany

Maybe you should do some research before beating your chest and regurgitating the propaganda you've heard in the past. It might save you from tasting your flip flops.

[qeuqheeg222]

yeah an you gotta love them govt.funded research projects that yield all those medical advances...america is a socialized capitalist state..........govt funding shit so the corps can take it an bank it all.....farm subsidies and farm welfare????oil companies getting tax breaks????stimulus checks to spend on big screen tv's so best buy doesnt go under????

[Oli]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

This was eye opening...none were perfect, but there are some great ideas about how to fix the system we have now.

[SugaSweet]

In Costa Rica,health care was about $60 per month for individuals (expatriots) last year.It is free for the most part for Costa Ricans,although both employee and employer pay some of the cost.This can not go on forever,so the Costa Rican government is now setting up a 'luxury' tax on certain houses and condo,and they are doing this province per province.The pot holes in many of the roads are not going away any time soon,however.San Jose is a nice place to go for very reasonable quality dental work.

[hi2u2]

this is spam that has already been debunked by snopes
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/canada.asp

any information on Canadian Healthcare that isn't accompanied by transparent peer-reviewed empirical data should be regarded as crap.

[Cuchulain]

Who cares about Canadian health care anyway? Here's what we should be doing:

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php

"Under a single-payer system, all Americans would be covered for all medically necessary services, including: doctor, hospital, long-term care, mental health, dental, vision, prescription drug and medical supply costs. Patients would regain free choice of doctor and hospital, and doctors would regain autonomy over patient care.

Physicians would be paid fee-for-service according to a negotiated formulary or receive salary from a hospital or nonprofit HMO / group practice. Hospitals would receive a global budget for operating expenses. Health facilities and expensive equipment purchases would be managed by regional health planning boards.

A single-payer system would be financed by eliminating private insurers and recapturing their administrative waste. Modest new taxes would replace premiums and out-of-pocket payments currently paid by individuals and business. Costs would be controlled through negotiated fees, global budgeting and bulk purchasing."

[Wolfcap]

If healthcare systems all over the world are so much better than ours why then do all these foreigners keep coming to the US for treatment?

Good post 'q1a2z3'.

Ur on a site called hungangels and stay on the politics board?

[yodajazz]

If healthcare systems all over the world are so much better than ours why then do all these foreigners keep coming to the US for treatment?

Good post 'q1a2z3'.

Ur on a site called hungangels and stay on the politics board?

Yes, Guyone is special.