Obama on transsexuals and race/nationality

[dc_guy_75]

Obama’s speech last week got me thinking about race. As a white male in my 30’s working and living a professional existence, I tend not to think about race much. While few places have are as diverse as DC (there are people here from every country in the world), and while this is represented in the (ever fewer) tranny bars, I’m amazed how few white tgirls I see in public.

My reasoning (with a slightly new perspective post-Obama speech) is that there are fewer white ts because they’re unwilling to give up their social status, so they remain crossdressers and not transsexuals.

For me, it seems ironic that most tgirls I’ve met seem to be from cultures that tend towards the “macho”. Puerto Rico, DR, Brazil, Mexico, Italy, etc. Perhaps growing up in an environment that is ultra-masculine, they feel they should be ultra-feminine.

The speech was very powerful, its ripples have changed my thinking.

[peggygee]

Good points, I have some thoughts on the
points you've brought up.

Will try to respond on the morrow.

[Nowhere]

Obama’s speech last week got me thinking about race. As a white male in my 30’s working and living a professional existence, I tend not to think about race much. While few places have are as diverse as DC (there are people here from every country in the world), and while this is represented in the (ever fewer) tranny bars, I’m amazed how few white tgirls I see in public.

My reasoning (with a slightly new perspective post-Obama speech) is that there are fewer white ts because they’re unwilling to give up their social status, so they remain crossdressers and not transsexuals.

For me, it seems ironic that most tgirls I’ve met seem to be from cultures that tend towards the “macho”. Puerto Rico, DR, Brazil, Mexico, Italy, etc. Perhaps growing up in an environment that is ultra-masculine, they feel they should be ultra-feminine.

The speech was very powerful, its ripples have changed my thinking.

Of course, let's start from the beginning.

White Male background means that you know there's a lot to gain if you play by the rules and follow the rules. You're also raised that it's the moral path (versus following your instincts). That sort of leads to a situation of "golden handcuffs" where even if someone comes to the realization they're TS, there's just so much to lose, that it's just not worth it. It's a destruction of everything you've built, with a life of just sketching by (since there is systemic discrimination in most of the corporate world - why do you think so many girls work the streets?).

In other countries, there's not this streamlined path to success, not to mention a sort of reinforcement of gender roles on more of an extreme level, so from the beginning, there (A) not as much to lose and (B) a sort of "steering" of tgirls into being themselves.

That being said, most of the world still doesn't protect their rights, so I think there's a hell of a lot of tgirls who live their lives completely in the closet. If ever the trans community gets the rights the gay community has (or better, the straight community does), I guarantee you, you're going to see maybe 5x-20x more tgirls out in the world, and most starting at a much younger age than you see now.

[dc_guy_75]

Nowhere,
You have good insight, and its true, as transgenderism is more accepted, we should see more tgirls around. Of course, its difficult to see change when its happening so slowly.

The time feels right for a "mainstream" transsexual. It seems there are several on international Big Brother" shows. Instead of an Alexis Arquette, hopefully a beautiful ts will breakthrough somewhere. However, I think she does need to be untainted by porn.

Hopefully, the time is near, Candice Cayne on a prime time show is a good start.

"Golden handcuffs" seems to sum it up well, why there seems to be so few white ts around...

[peggygee]

Obama’s speech last week got me thinking about race. As a white male in my 30’s working and living a professional existence, I tend not to think about race much. While few places have are as diverse as DC (there are people here from every country in the world), and while this is represented in the (ever fewer) tranny bars, I’m amazed how few white tgirls I see in public.

My reasoning (with a slightly new perspective post-Obama speech) is that there are fewer white ts because they’re unwilling to give up their social status, so they remain crossdressers and not transsexuals.

For me, it seems ironic that most tgirls I’ve met seem to be from cultures that tend towards the “macho”. Puerto Rico, DR, Brazil, Mexico, Italy, etc. Perhaps growing up in an environment that is ultra-masculine, they feel they should be ultra-feminine.

The speech was very powerful, its ripples have changed my thinking.

Of course, let's start from the beginning.

White Male background means that you know there's a lot to gain if you play by the rules and follow the rules. You're also raised that it's the moral path (versus following your instincts). That sort of leads to a situation of "golden handcuffs" where even if someone comes to the realization they're TS, there's just so much to lose, that it's just not worth it. It's a destruction of everything you've built, with a life of just sketching by (since there is systemic discrimination in most of the corporate world - why do you think so many girls work the streets?).

In other countries, there's not this streamlined path to success, not to mention a sort of reinforcement of gender roles on more of an extreme level, so from the beginning, there (A) not as much to lose and (B) a sort of "steering" of tgirls into being themselves.

That being said, most of the world still doesn't protect their rights, so I think there's a hell of a lot of tgirls who live their lives completely in the closet. If ever the trans community gets the rights the gay community has (or better, the straight community does), I guarantee you, you're going to see maybe 5x-20x more tgirls out in the world, and most starting at a much younger age than you see now.

Statistics from the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, (http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswom2006.pdf)
and reports from the National Organization Of Women (NOW) bear out the
fact that men of 'the caucasian persuasion' benefit from white male privilege.

From the reports we learn that white women earn a median of 77 cents
compared to white males. African-american women earn a median of 71
cents, and Latinas earn a median of 58 cents per dollar earned by white
males.

At this point no reliable source was found for the median income of either
transwomen or transmen.

[dc_guy_75]

From the reports we learn that white women earn a median of 77 cents
compared to white males. African-american women earn a median of 71
cents, and Latinas earn a median of 58 cents per dollar earned by white
males.

Peggy,
I think you're citing a slightly misleading statistic there. Yes, if you took the median income from the us population and compared it to ethnic groups, those statistics are correct. However, much of the income disparity is due to women leaving work for motherhood or not working full-time. Also, some of it is due to males having more physical strength (necessary for many blue-collar jobs), making for a smaller labor pool, hence the having the supply meeting demand at a higher price.
The main reason why I disagree with the statistics is that economically, it makes little reason to discriminate between men or women. I do agree that even in free market without any prejudices, a disparity would still exist.
However, this really doesn't really apply to the ts population, which does experience true discrimination.
Peggy, thank you for all your posts, I enjoy reading them all.

[peggygee]

From the reports we learn that white women earn a median of 77 cents
compared to white males. African-american women earn a median of 71
cents, and Latinas earn a median of 58 cents per dollar earned by white
males.

Peggy,
I think you're citing a slightly misleading statistic there. Yes, if you took the median income from the us population and compared it to ethnic groups, those statistics are correct. However, much of the income disparity is due to women leaving work for motherhood or not working full-time. Also, some of it is due to males having more physical strength (necessary for many blue-collar jobs), making for a smaller labor pool, hence the having the supply meeting demand at a higher price.

The main reason why I disagree with the statistics is that economically, it makes little reason to discriminate between men or women. I do agree that even in free market without any prejudices, a disparity would still exist.

However, this really doesn't really apply to the ts population, which does experience true discrimination.

Peggy, thank you for all your posts, I enjoy reading them all.

dc_guy_75, I concur with the causal reasons that you have stated for
there being wage disparities between the genders.

As regards my response on the transcommunity, I am looking at the
entire transcommunity: the young, the middle aged, the elder. I was
thinking of transwomen who work in the sex trade, and those who do not.
I was factoring in those that live in stealth, that are rarely accounted for.

I get the sense that the visible transcommunity may skew our perception
of the true economic state of that community.

My assertion is that the community is by no mean homogeneous.

As I have often times stated there are many transwomen who are working
in mainstream occupations, and are paid the stereotypical female wage.

If they pass, and have the same skill set as a natal female I feel that they
will be earning the same wages as the natal female. In that instance a
wage that would be lower than if they were men.

I believe that the two arenas when grievous and overt discrimination
occur, are when:

1. A woman has lived the majority of her life in the male gender, has her
education, work history, etc in that gender and then transitons, then she
literally must either re-create herself, start her 'herstory' from scratch, or
out herself, and benefit from her 'history'.

Directly related to this is the woman who though she passes, has no
verifiable work history, here again she will be discriminated against,
but in this instance it is because she has no demonstrated marketable
skills.

2. If she doesn't pass, then the workplace,and I would daresay the world
can be a very hostile place.

By all means I fully realize that there are unacceptable, arbitrary,
capricious, and horrific acts that are happening to transwomen, countless
times a day.

Yet we are not all perpetual and interminable victims.

Some of us actually make out pretty okay.



Peggy, thank you for all your posts, I enjoy reading them all.

Thank you very, very much for making the time and effort to read the posts. :wink:

[dc_guy_75]

Yet we are not all perpetual and interminable victims.

Some of us actually make out pretty okay.




For me, its been difficult enough finding my way in this society, I can only imagine its exponentially for difficult for a ts woman. Strangely, its part of my attraction to tgirls, I tend to be in awe of their courage, I'm amazed for people whom swim against the current of expectations and gender roles.

And to your last point (which I quoted), I suppose a person is only a "victim" if they want to be... personal strength can outweigh even societal norms, After all, there are many (most) places where being a tgirl means even more ostracism... including many US states.

Being attracted to tgirls puts me in the same boat as the girls I'm attracted to, or so it feels like...

[Drowzee Snorlax]

This is off topic, but dc_guy_75, where are the TS bars and clubs in DC? I'm gonna be there next week. Thanks for any info.