World view on the US

[tstv_lover]

OK, well that's a pretty grandiose thread title - but got you reading didn't it! This is my view as a non-US citizen, however it's certainly a common theme in discussions about the US.

1. The US is the world's only super-power and has, in the past, been a bastion of moral right. Recently this moral right has been replaced by military might.

2. Following the demise of the USSR, the US was given a unique opportunity to act as a unifying influence for the benefit of all. Instead it has acted in narrow self-serving ways that isolated many other nations - including past allies.

3. The US electoral system is thoroughly confusing, but that's entirely a US issue to address. How someone can achieve over 50% of votes but not be elected still seems bizarre.

4. US Government policy is dictated by lobby groups, particularly oil companies, weapons manufacturers and the Jewish lobby. This has resulted in
- Exxon achieving highest profits by any company is the history of the world (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/business/01cnd-exxon.html?hp)
- US is world biggest arms exporter (http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/PRWaW052505.html) and experiences high levels of violent crime
- Israel receives 20% of US foreign aid (http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011)

5. The unwillingness of the US Government to accept that climate change is, at least in part, caused by human action has frustrated and delayed global actions.

6. Everyone takes an interest in the US election. We believe that GWB has NOT made the world a safer place, indeed quite the opposite. We would welcome any change. Especially if it involved breaking the strong links with heavily funded lobby groups.

7. The major challenge facing the US is not from Iran or Russia or Iraq or any other external party. The major threat to the US if a continuing failure to engage in dialogue with other sovereign nations.

[trish]

7. The major challenge facing the US is not from Iran or Russia or Iraq or any other external party. The major threat to the US if a continuing failure to engage in dialogue with other sovereign nations.

' just thought that last point was worth repeating. Our refusal to engage in honest dialog not only threatens ourselves but it threatens the stability, the economy, the security, the ecology and the climate of the world.

[thx1138]

Agree totally. But I have to ask you as a citizen of New Zealand why does your leadership help bush with his military ventures and genocidal policies on Muslim nations especially Palestinians and Iranians?

[tstv_lover]

I can't be held accountable for New Zealand policy any more than I could hold you accountable for US policy.

But your question got me investigating. I think you'll find New Zealand policy on Palestine is pretty close to my own http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Foreign-Relations/Middle-East/0-arab-israel-conflict.php

New Zealand refused to participate in Iraq or, indeed, any other non-UN authorised action. NZ is a bid supporter of the United Nations. Generally speaking, for a country of 4 million we punch above our weight in supporting UN actions round the world, but always with an even hand (sorry for the mixed metaphor!). There is general support for this foreign policy approach across parties and within the community.

[tstv_lover]

7. The major challenge facing the US is not from Iran or Russia or Iraq or any other external party. The major threat to the US if a continuing failure to engage in dialogue with other sovereign nations.

' just thought that last point was worth repeating. Our refusal to engage in honest dialog not only threatens ourselves but it threatens the stability, the economy, the security, the ecology and the climate of the world.

Thanks for amplifying my comments Trish. You're absolutely right. The challenge is global rather than limited to the US. Frictions between the US and United Nations during GWB administration sure hadn't helped anyone.

[thx1138]

@tslvr: I'm not holding YOU accountable. What ever gave you that idea? Anyway I'm glad to see NZ is not actively supporting bush's wars. (unless through contractors)

[eggbert]

I agree almost in toto. However you failed to mention the most powerful sinister lobby of them all, the Christian Right wing.

[tstv_lover]

Looks like I finally discovered an explanation of the US electoral system - all becomes clear now :)

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks

[BrendaQG]

All very good points. Too bad most Americans care more about who will be the next American Idol than about this kind of thing.

[tsafficianado]

Dear confused in new zealand
1. please point out the periods in time when the United States was a 'bastion of moral right'. Nonsense. Prior to WWI the US had virtually ZERO interest in foreign affairs. Our foreign ventures have been decidedly military in nature. If not for our 'military might' you would not be here and your island would be a Japanese colony. If not for our military might Europe would be a war zone between Germany and the USSR.
2. So you believe it is the responsibility of the US to serve as a uniting influence around the globe? Odd perspective. And of course, the US is the only nation that acts in its own interest.
3. If you are so totally confused by the electoral sytem you could exercise one of two options....concentrate on less confusing issues, or attain US citizenship, get elected to Congress and initiate a Constitutional ammendment to change the system.
4. US government is not dictated by lobby groups, that is liberal nonsense. The oil companies, the weapons manufacturers, the Jews, the African Americans, teachers, farmers, milk producers, the entertainment industry, liberals, conservatives, Christians, atheists, gay rights acitivists and dozens of other interests make an effort to influence government policy, that's the nature of the system. Quit whining about Exxon, park your frigging car and shut off your furnace and your air conditioner and DO somethiung about it beyond spewing from your pie hole. Exxon is the most profitable company in the world because they're the best at what they do, they provide a product for which Americans and increasingly all other modern societies demand without reservation and everyone who 'gives a damn' expresses that concern by running off at the mouth rather than doing something about it. Do you think the profit margin on a gallon of half-litre bottles of distilled water that libtards gladly pay $4 for is higher than the profit margin on a gallon of gas? Why aren't you whining about the bottled water lobby? So stfu.
5. The American government is not a dictatorship.
The government will do what the American people demand, and what the American people demand is SUVs with seating capacity for nine in which they drive solo 95% of the time, for McMansions with 1500 square feet of conditioned air per resident that are kept at 75 degrees in the winter and 70 degrees in the summer. Increasingly, the rest of the world's population demands the same.
6. As far as GWB is concerned, sure, he's useless. So are Hillary and Obama and John and the rest of the candidates, because the American people don't demand useful candidates. This is not true in most of the rest of the 'civilized' world? It is not the US President's job to make the world a safer place, his/her job is to make America a safer place.
7. It is an infantile position to state that America's threats are not Iran or Iraq or Russia. If Iran or North Korea or Pakistan or another 'sovereign nation' starts spinning out nuclear warheads you will change your tune INSTANTLY....unfortunately, then it will be too late. Perhaps American foreign policy has not addressed these or other concerns without error, I'm sure that is the case. Perhaps YOU in your apparently infinite wisdom can enlighten us. How do we put the North Korean or Pakistani or Iranian genies back in the bottle?
You libtards can go back to your regularly scheduled program of sharing with each other your youtube tinfoil melodramas and your fourth grade conception of foreign policy and stroking each other. Since guyone has abandoned pricking you dullards I though I would rattle your cage on random occasions. What an interesting dialogue you have going here, thirty people who all 'think' the same thing and 'think' whining about it will fix things. harharharharharharharharharharharhar

[trish]

that's five people, not thirty. another example of neo-con hyperbole.

[chefmike]

Since guyone has abandoned pricking you dullards I though I would rattle your cage on random occasions.

LMFAO...talk about dumb and dumber...ya gotta love it...thanks for dropping in...and don't be a stranger, putz...

[q1a2z3]

OK, well that's a pretty grandiose thread title - but got you reading didn't it! This is my view as a non-US citizen, however it's certainly a common theme in discussions about the US.

1. The US is the world's only super-power and has, in the past, been a bastion of moral right. Recently this moral right has been replaced by military might.

2. Following the demise of the USSR, the US was given a unique opportunity to act as a unifying influence for the benefit of all. Instead it has acted in narrow self-serving ways that isolated many other nations - including past allies.

3. The US electoral system is thoroughly confusing, but that's entirely a US issue to address. How someone can achieve over 50% of votes but not be elected still seems bizarre.

4. US Government policy is dictated by lobby groups, particularly oil companies, weapons manufacturers and the Jewish lobby. This has resulted in
- Exxon achieving highest profits by any company is the history of the world (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/business/01cnd-exxon.html?hp)
- US is world biggest arms exporter (http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/PRWaW052505.html) and experiences high levels of violent crime
- Israel receives 20% of US foreign aid (http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011)

5. The unwillingness of the US Government to accept that climate change is, at least in part, caused by human action has frustrated and delayed global actions.

6. Everyone takes an interest in the US election. We believe that GWB has NOT made the world a safer place, indeed quite the opposite. We would welcome any change. Especially if it involved breaking the strong links with heavily funded lobby groups.

7. The major challenge facing the US is not from Iran or Russia or Iraq or any other external party. The major threat to the US if a continuing failure to engage in dialogue with other sovereign nations.


1. Ha! you got this wrong dude! We are killing our selves with this "moral right" crap here. Multiculturalism and perversity (aka special rights for perverts, phony hate speech and hate crime laws, thought police, etc...) , nut job judges in need of tar and feathers, whining about "rights" for enemy combatants, NOT letting our military do the job they needed to do in the middle east (aka exterminate the muslems). The Soviet Union never stopped being a super power. Now that Clinton sold/gave rocket technology to communist china they are a super power.

2. USSR is still there thanks to the gay lil elf Putin. George looked into his soul and saw a good man. Ha! what a joke. The US could have set a bar based on human rights and told the rest of the world either meet the bar or we don't want to trade with you. We trade with communist china but we don't trade with cuba. What a crock. They both have the same human rights record. Of course moral relativism on the part of liberals in our country prevents any type of absolute right or wrong standards. This goes for "free-trade" butt holes too. Most world "self-serving" opinions of America are based on jealously. Try reducing your tax rates encourage men and woman to marry (each other) and have kids (the normal way) and see how your economy will grow.

3. You need to read the constitution and the amendments. The constitution was laid open by the 17th amendment. See, the state governments at one point in time had an interest and a say in our federal government. They appointed senators to go to the federal congress to work for the States they represented. Gas bags like McCain were accountable to his state government. If he voted the wrong way he would get the hook! When the states have a vote in the federal congress they never had to worry about unfunded mandates that states cry about today. We have an electoral college too. This was also set up so the highly populated states would not have the only vote in electing a president. The winner take all approach to the delegate votes by state were setup to prevent close tallies of delegates. We do not have a democracy where the "mob" can vote for whatever. We have a republic of many states. States can develop their own laws based on their voters. We believe in local rule. Liberals want to dissolve state governments and have a single federal government with one set of laws.

4. One of the worst things done in this country or the world (by the way your country is lobbied by the same multinationals) is giving a company legal standing and allowing it to speak to representatives in congress. Companies should have no representation and no taxes. Israel deserves the foreign aid it gets from the America. The numbers you quote are in dispute. The arabs get three times the support from America than Israel does.

5. The global warming fairy has become a liberal wet dream and a replacement for their godless religion. The actions of America on global warming has stopped the army of out-of-work people from collecting the global warming idiots at gun point and escorting them to a fertilizer plant. When you consider how many firearms there are in America and how many people who have them it will be a cold day in hell for those who try to further screw up the economy with their moonbat global warming nonsense.

6. GWB had a great start for about 3 days after 911. Then he got a call from some muslem scum in saudia arabia to change the name of the war operation "infinite justice." Most conservatives knew at that point GWB was starting to grow a vagina. If he had nuked ryiad, mecca and tora bora he would have made the world a safer place. Why? Because the remaining muslems would have actively gone out and collected the heads of hammass, osama, and other nut job terrorist groups less they get turned to glass next.

7. Wake up! dialogue never solved anything. If it did the UN would have disbanded 20 years ago. The UN is a corrupt toilet. Communist china, the soviet union, burma, cuba, syria, iran, north korea, and pakistan are festering toilets and need to be cleaned out.

[q1a2z3]

PS

The state of Israel was created by a UN resolution. The "Jew hating" members of the UN all signed on to this because they were counting on the arabs to kill the Jews.

I sure would like to know what my friends in Israel targeted in syria a few months back. Ride'm cowboys! Woohoo!!!

[tstv_lover]

Interesting to hear your response. Kill all muslims, stop trading with Russia and China, stop taxing companies and bomb the crap out of anyone that doesn't agree with US. Oh yes, the US also needs to get better politicians...presumable like yourself.

While I totally accept that you're entitled to your view I'm truly sad to think that might represent others.

[BrendaQG]

q1a2z3

I just want to point out that Israel may get 1/3 of the USAID that the arabs do... But their are way more than 3 times the Arabs.

[chefmike]

Interesting to hear your response. Kill all muslims, stop trading with Russia and China, stop taxing companies and bomb the crap out of anyone that doesn't agree with US. Oh yes, the US also needs to get better politicians...presumable like yourself.

While I totally accept that you're entitled to your view I'm truly sad to think that might represent others.

He only represents the lunatic fringe.

[trish]

q1a2z3 whines,


We believe in local rule. Liberals want to dissolve state governments and have a single federal government with one set of laws.



Not so. Liberals are much more practical in their approach to government. We observe that some problems can be solved more efficiently by the market than by any form of government. We also recognize that some situations require government regulation and often the appropriate governmental bodies are local ones. We also realize that some problems are best handled by federal regulation. All this is not only obvious to liberals, but to most Americans and most politicians who are not caught in the grip of an ideology. There are no liberals on the American scene that think government is the solution to everything. Yet, there are plenty of right wing extremists who think the market is the solution to everything. There are also plenty of right wing extremists who paradoxically think bombing the shit out of every nation that gets our way is the solution to everything. I say paradoxically because it’s hardly what you would call a “small government solution”. Right wing extremism has condoned torture, gutted our civil protections, given our national resources to the moneyed elite and armed terrorists around the world. It’s time conservatives stop enabling extremism. Put away your ideology. It’s not a universal solution to everything. It’s time to face the world with intellectual integrity and put away childish strategies and childish perspectives.

[hippifried]

Oh c'mon Trish. Haven't you been paying attention to Rush & the right wing kool aid brigade? Liberal = communist = enemy. Break out your hobnails & get to goosesteppin' with the program. Megadittos, rah rah rah!

[El Nino]

This country was not set up to be this current, virtual two party system. It is a farce and a lie. Freedom cannot exist in such a system because there will always be a mob rule. The true paradigm is a Top (Ruling Elite) Vs. Bottom; not a right Vs. left. Central Bankers Central Bankers Central Bankers...

Please refer to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g

[El Nino]

Crap

[El Nino]

OOPS!!! I meant to post this link. Sorry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fgw3J_WYLQ

[chefmike]

OOPS!!! I meant to post this link. Sorry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fgw3J_WYLQ

:sleep

[thx1138]

@ tstraficando: "Prior to WWI the US had virtually ZERO interest in foreign affairs." What about attacks on Cuba, the Phillipines were thousands lost their lives? But, oh yeah, the lives of brown skinned peoples don't count for anything. Typical racists attitude. Same today in Iraq. Nothing has changed except the weaponry.