The N.H. Primary

[Oli]

Now that voting has actually begun...

Clinton Claims NH for Her Own

By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer

(1-08) 20:31 PST Manchester, N.H. (AP) --

Hillary Rodham Clinton proved Tuesday that more than one Clinton can be "the Comeback Kid."

"Over the last week, I listened to you, and in the process I found my own voice," Clinton said at a victory celebration after her win over Barack Obama. "Now, together, let's give America the kind of comeback that New Hampshire has just given me."

Clinton, whose husband used a second-place finish in New Hampshire in 1992 to propel himself to the White House, had trailed Obama in recent polling. In the last days, though, she overhauled her campaign operation here and took a new tone to the trail. Aides, meanwhile, executed the long-laid ground game that even rivals acknowledged was masterful.

The New York senator and former first lady hugged both former President Clinton and their daughter, Chelsea, before taking the podium and saying, "thank you, thank you so much" repeatedly.

"I come tonight with a very, very full heart and I want especially to thank New Hampshire," she said. "For all the ups and down of this campaign, you helped remind everyone that politics isn't a game. ... We came back tonight because you spoke loudly and clearly."

"Tomorrow, we're going to get up, roll up our sleeves and keep going," Clinton said to enthusiastic applause.

In the end, though, key voting blocs were there for Clinton in New Hampshire — or weren't there for Obama, depending on how the campaigns frame it. According to exit polling conducted by The Associated Press and the networks, far more women voted than men; Clinton won 45 percent of them compared to 36 for Obama.

Also according to exit polls, fewer younger voters turned out in New Hampshire than in Iowa, depriving Obama of crucial support.

Clinton's organization delivered. She hired the state's top political organizers, including the executive director of the New Hampshire Democratic Party that helped orchestrate 2006's landslide wins in the state House, Senate and Executive Council. She also picked up the popular chairwoman of the party and other party elders. She also picked up key advisers, including Howard Dean's guru Karen Hicks and belatedly Al Gore aide Doug Hattaway.

The homegrown, Granite State feel of the Clinton organization mimicked that of Sen. John Kerry's 2004 win here.

The campaign organized down to the precinct level. They built lists of endorsers and volunteers. They spent more than $5 million on 5,000 television ads in New Hampshire media markets.

Despite that, as the summer wore on, Clinton's poll numbers leveled out. Obama built a similar organization and his name identification crept upward.

When asked Tuesday morning what she planned to tell supporters Tuesday night, Clinton only offered a cautious "We'll see."

As her optimistic smile made its way to polling places and businesses, record turnout hinted she faced a more difficult than predicted challenge from Obama. Her husband, the former president, starting spinning a loss here and blaming the calendar for not giving the campaign time to adjust after Iowa.

"The only thing I hate is New Hampshire should have had the customary 10 days after Iowa. If they had, I wouldn't have any doubt about the outcome of this. It's just hard to overcome the media deluge," Bill Clinton said in Seabrook, returning to his frequent criticism of how reporters have covered his wife compared to Obama.

"It's just almost impossible to vote five days after Iowa without being unduly influenced by the media coverage from Iowa. So, you know, that colored the polls — the switch in the polls for two days — and then we've had a three-day election."

Even without the time, it was enough.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/01/08/politics/p194115S56.DTL&type=politics

[chefmike]

It's gonna be a wild ride.

[trish]

Hilary winds and regains the edge! this IS exciting! i loved Obama's speech. he was gracious and inspiring. what the hell can we expect in Nevada?

[Quinn]

With this win, Clinton will be the Democratic Party's candidate for president. Obama will put up a fight, but, in the end, it will be in vain. Unfortunately, national campaigns are always about the "two M"s – money and machine (as in political machine) – with issues of substance serving as little more than cheap props in a bad play.

-Quinn

[thx1138]

George W. Bush in a dress.

[qeuqheeg222]

i'm more interested in the sad state of the republicans in this whole mess...the council for growht or whatever fat cat rich fucks really runnin the show are hating life in the republican race...they want the "brand name"success found in romney or rudy but are gettin the religious kooks in huckabee and his economic "populism"..and the ever maverick mccain with his stand on immigration -the one issue the RNc thinks it can galvanize its base with....oh well..i cant stand mitt romney's rich,lyin,ass.........

[Jamie Michelle]

Dr. Ron Paul is the only legitimate choice for President.

[qeuqheeg222]

he's alright but them meat and potatoe repugs cant stand his ass....they are tryin to smear him nowadays in the new republic....

[Jamie Michelle]

he's alright but them meat and potatoe repugs cant stand his ass....they are tryin to smear him nowadays in the new republic....

Indeed, I know. Based upon words he never even wrote. Which is befitting for life under government, since an old joke is that in any meeting of a group of three anti-state people, two will be government agents. I find it interesting that one of the people who wrote an offending article in Ron Paul's newsletter (whereupon he was quickly fired) has an extensive military background. Of course, Ron Paul has a military background as a flight surgeon during the Vietnam War (and indeed, among present military members, Ron Paul has by far the largest support). But it's been my observation during my time on this mortal coil that the "black propaganda" (i.e., poisoning the well) spook-types more often than not have a military background. That's the ancient government tactic of inserting its minions into its enemy's organization in order to disrupt it from within (and in the present day we're talking about trillions of dollars at stake for the establishment--they will literally kill to maintain the status quo and to increase their power). We've seen this before with the U.S. government's operation CoIntelPro (Counter-Intelligence Program) during the 1960s and '70s.

But as Attorney James Ostrowski points out, it's logically impossible for a libertarian to be racist in their political views ("For the record--in these strange Times," December 26, 2007 http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/018003.html ):

""
Libertarianism qua political philosophy, by definition, cannot be racist. It is a political philosophy based on the view that all human beings have rights by virtue of their nature and the nature of the human condition.

No libertarian can possibly be racist in their political philosophy. It's possible for a libertarian to be a racist I suppose but not in their political views. Were a "libertarian" to adopt racist political views, he would instantly cease to be a libertarian.
""

Indeed, upon Ron Paul's Congressional office wall are the pictures of the Jewish Austrian School economists Murray N. Rothbard and Ludwig von Mises.[1] Hardly a good start to being a proper racist.

But these types of racial-inciting tactics are just standard-operating procedure for governments:

"Germany's top neo-Nazis spy for ministry," Hannah Cleaver, Telegraph (U.K.), July 16, 2002 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/07/16/wgerm16.xml
http://web.archive.org/web/20030410195340/http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/07/16/wgerm16.xml

"Neo-Nazi leader 'was MI6 agent,'" John Hooper, Guardian (U.K.), August 13, 2002 http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,773568,00.html

"Neo-Nazis run rings around German intelligence services," Tony Paterson, Telegraph (U.K.), March 16, 2003 http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/03/16/wnazi16.xml
http://web.archive.org/web/20030413232754/http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/03/16/wnazi16.xml

"Quest to ban neo-Nazis ends in farce," Allan Hall, The Scotsman, March 19, 2003 http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=330602003

"Report: Police arrest IDF soldier suspected of belonging to neo-Nazi group," Jonathan Lis, Haaretz, May 5, 2005 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=572832

Excerpt from the above article:

""
Police on Wednesday arrested an Israel Defense Forces soldier suspected of belonging to a neo-Nazi group, Army Radio reported Thursday.

A detective squad detained the soldier, a new immigrant and a resident of the Ariel settlement in the West Bank, after his behavior aroused suspicion. Officers found heroin in his vehicle, Israel Radio reported.

Upon his arrest, the soldier told police he was a neo-Nazi and that he hated the state. A swastika was found tattooed on his left arm.
""

"Police arrest neo-Nazi IDF soldier," IsraelInsider, May 5, 2005 http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Briefs/5483.htm

"Police Discover Ring of Neo-Nazi Immigrants from CIS," Israel National News, June 2, 2005 http://web.archive.org/web/20050613080612/http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=83115

Excerpt from the above article:

""
The neo-Nazi group was discovered following the arrest on drug charges of a 20-year-old IDF soldier. A swastika tattooed on his arm aroused police suspicions, and neo-Nazi material was later discovered in his home.
""

"Neo-Nazi rally was organized by FBI informant," Henry Pierson Curtis with contribution from Rene Stutzman, Jim Leusner and Willoughby Mariano, Orlando Sentinel, February 15, 2007 http://www.geocities.com/psyop911/neo-nazi-rally-was-organized-by-fbi-informant.html
http://www.geocities.com/psyop911/27930152.pdf
http://web.archive.org/web/20070224053847/http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-mhate1507feb15,0,4658933.story

"Police: Israeli Neo-Nazi Ring Busted," Amy Teibel, Associated Press (AP), September 9, 2007 http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/09/09/ap4096684.html

Excerpt from the above article:

""
In a case that would seem unthinkable in the Jewish state, police said Sunday they have cracked a cell of young Israeli neo-Nazis accused in a string of attacks on foreign workers, religious Jews, drug addicts and gays.
""

-----

Note:

1. As seen here: http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6134/n153800184301732816346hi7.jpg . Of which is hung behind a sign on his desk which reads "Don't Steal: The Government Hates Competition": http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3378/ronpauldesktl2.jpg

[thx1138]

What's frightening them is the implication of Paul's statements: that the US military will be downsized. Fewer deadly toys and soldiers equates with a loss of status and prestige so they think. Power and domination is their reason for living. Giving that up won't be easy.

[Jamie Michelle]

What's frightening them is the implication of Paul's statements: that the US military will be downsized. Fewer deadly toys and soldiers equates with a loss of status and prestige so they think. Power and domination is their reason for living. Giving that up won't be easy.

For sure. No government likes it when people try to downsize it, and they'll do everything in their power to maintain the largess rolling in. I recall that this nation was founded in a war over that issue.

But Dr. Ron Paul has the largest grass-roots support of any presidential candidate, and indeed raised more money in a single day (on December 16, 2007) than any other presidential candidate in U.S. history (and as far as I'm aware, more than any candidate for any government office in the history of mankind).

Though it's not surprising the major media are acting in their traditional role as handmaidens of the state. The political establishment and government-connected interests are the same interests that own the mass media outlets, so they are hardly keen on seeing their good-times money-and-power shindig come to an end. Add to that the black-box electronic voting machines, and however large Dr. Paul's support becomes the odds are still greatly stacked against him. These people don't play fair, and they're not playing games: they're deadly serious. They'll do whatever it takes to maintain and increase their power.

[thx1138]

http://www.newswithviews.com:80/baldwin/baldwin422.htm why does the establishment hate Ron Paul by Pastor Baldwin.

[thx1138]

vote fraud suspected in clinton victory: http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenumbers/2008/01/new-hampshires.html

[thx1138]

http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/71200.html more on possible NH voter fraud.

[thx1138]

Clinton Percentage of Total Wins
Towns Won With Paper 45 44%
Towns Won With Diebold 59 58%
Ratio of Towns won with Paper to Towns won with Diebold (Clinton) 0.76
Ratio of Towns won with Diebold to Towns won with Paper (Clinton) 1.31



Primary 2008
New Hampshire Results
With 97% of Precincts
Reporting at midnight
1/8/2008

Is something wrong
with this picture?

Are the corporations
throwing it to the
corporatist?

[Mr_Choc69]

With this win, Clinton will be the Democratic Party's candidate for president. Obama will put up a fight, but, in the end, it will be in vain. Unfortunately, national campaigns are always about the "two M"s – money and machine (as in political machine) – with issues of substance serving as little more than cheap props in a bad play.

-Quinn


I disagree. Obama has pockets just as deep as Clinton. The Dems will wake up and see Clinton for who she is ~ a horrible choice. Obama also has the most votes from the other side of the Aisle. Many of the Republicans are sick of their party.

[Quinn]

With this win, Clinton will be the Democratic Party's candidate for president. Obama will put up a fight, but, in the end, it will be in vain. Unfortunately, national campaigns are always about the "two M"s – money and machine (as in political machine) – with issues of substance serving as little more than cheap props in a bad play.

-Quinn


I disagree. Obama has pockets just as deep as Clinton. The Dems will wake up and see Clinton for who she is ~ a horrible choice. Obama also has the most votes from the other side of the Aisle. Many of the Republicans are sick of their party.

By historical standards, Obama does have deep pockets, but as of late September he was some $11 million behind Hillary (I haven't looked at the numbers in some time, so they might have changed one way or the other since then). That said, with the reorganizing of Hillary's campaign to bring more of her husband's operatives into the fold (many in an unofficial capacity), I anticipate a substantial growth in the fundraising gap as the primary season drags on. Hopefully, I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

-Quinn

[hippifried]

what the hell can we expect in Nevada?
Well...

Unless you own a casino, you can expect to lose.

[the commander]

With this win, Clinton will be the Democratic Party's candidate for president. Obama will put up a fight, but, in the end, it will be in vain. Unfortunately, national campaigns are always about the "two M"s – money and machine (as in political machine) – with issues of substance serving as little more than cheap props in a bad play.

-Quinn


I disagree. Obama has pockets just as deep as Clinton. The Dems will wake up and see Clinton for who she is ~ a horrible choice. Obama also has the most votes from the other side of the Aisle. Many of the Republicans are sick of their party.

By historical standards, Obama does have deep pockets, but as of late September he was some $11 million behind Hillary (I haven't looked at the numbers in some time, so they might have changed one way or the other since then). That said, with the reorganizing of Hillary's campaign to bring more of her husband's operatives into the fold (many in an unofficial capacity), I anticipate a substantial growth in the fundraising gap as the primary season drags on. Hopefully, I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

-Quinn

I actually saw a graph that showed each candidate and their money raised compared to money spent. I can't remember exactly where I saw it, but according to that graph, Obama actually had more money available to spend. I do know that he has raised 8 million in the 8 days after Iowa. Clinton has also had many of her donors maxed out, while the majority of Obama donors have given $100 or less and have plenty more to give.

As far as organization goes, he's actually got a larger group in Nevada than Clinton, and has been there longer. Same thing goes for South Carolina. He has offices and groups in 19 of the 22 Feb 5th states, including some that Clinton hasn't even touched.

Now, of course, Clinton is going to get a bounce out of the win in New Hampshire, but I think it is still going to be a long slog. Obamas main problem right now is John Edwards. So long as he stays in the race, he pulls away other "change" oriented voters. Keep in mind than when everything is tallied up, 58% of the vote was not for Clinton. Also keep in mind that outside of Superdelegates, which might change, Obama is one delegate ahead, 25 to 24. This thing isn't near from over. So long as Obama makes a good show and wins at least one out of Nevada or South carolina, especially South Carolina, he still has a very good chance of getting the nomination.

The Commander
DIA

[chefmike]

Obama should make a deal with Edwards. Edwards drops out now, and in return he get's the VP nod if Obama becomes the nominee...and having a southern populist on his ticket would benefit Obama a great deal, IMO.

[the commander]

Obama should make a deal with Edwards. Edwards drops out now, and in return he get's the VP nod if Obama becomes the nominee...and having a southern populist on his ticket would benefit Obama a great deal, IMO.

I dont think Edwards has enough Foreign Policy/Military experience to help balance Obama. Plus, having run as veep before, I doubt he would accept it again. However, I could see Edwards being offered some other high level position...perhaps Attorney General?

I think Obama would be better served adding a retired General or someone else with Defense Department experience to the ticket. Jim Webb of Virginia would be perfect. Not only is he articulate, intelligent and a good campaigner from a large swing state, he has loads of Defense Department experience AND used to be a Republican, which feeds into Obamas message of reaching across the aisle to the other party to help govern. The question is weather they want to risk losing such a good Senator from a large swing state.

Just my opinion.

The Commander
DIA

[Quinn]

Obama should make a deal with Edwards. Edwards drops out now, and in return he get's the VP nod if Obama becomes the nominee...and having a southern populist on his ticket would benefit Obama a great deal, IMO.

First off, good input guys. And thanks for the informative post, Commander. The last I had heard, Hillary was well ahead in the polls in Nevada. Does anyone know if the endorsement of those two large unions has resulted in a change for Obama? What's the story in South Carolina?

To Chef's post, I was thinking the same thing. The word among many of the pundents is that Edwards really dislikes Hillary, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. The real question is whether Edwards would bow out and endorse Obama before Hillary gets too much momentum. If he waits too long, I don’t think it would make much of a difference. Coversely, if he were to do it now, it may make a world of difference.

-Quinn

[Mr_Choc69]

Obama should make a deal with Edwards. Edwards drops out now, and in return he get's the VP nod if Obama becomes the nominee...and having a southern populist on his ticket would benefit Obama a great deal, IMO.

True. But he really needs someone with Foreign Policy experience - a big plus would be a southerner with that experience. Problem is - I can't think of any that would be viable.

[Mr_Choc69]

Obama should make a deal with Edwards. Edwards drops out now, and in return he get's the VP nod if Obama becomes the nominee...and having a southern populist on his ticket would benefit Obama a great deal, IMO.

First off, good input guys. And thanks for the informative post, Commander. The last I had heard, Hillary was well ahead in the polls in Nevada. Does anyone know if the endorsement of those two large unions has resulted in a change for Obama? What's the story in South Carolina?

To Chef's post, I was thinking the same thing. The word among many of the pundents is that Edwards really dislikes Hillary, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. The real question is whether Edwards would bow out and endorse Obama before Hillary gets too much momentum. If he waits too long, I don’t think it would make much of a difference. Coversely, if he were to do it now, it may make a world of difference.

-Quinn

Quinn,

Nevada - Yes, the endorsement of the culinary and hospitality union all but guarantees him victory in that state.

Edwards will not leave this soon. He still believes that he has a strong chance with SC and Super Tuesday.

And Gentlemen - Lets not forget what Bloomberg could do to this race on a national level. I feel he will jump in if the water is the right temp.

[chefmike]

Obama should make a deal with Edwards. Edwards drops out now, and in return he get's the VP nod if Obama becomes the nominee...and having a southern populist on his ticket would benefit Obama a great deal, IMO.

I dont think Edwards has enough Foreign Policy/Military experience to help balance Obama. Plus, having run as veep before, I doubt he would accept it again. However, I could see Edwards being offered some other high level position...perhaps Attorney General?

I think Obama would be better served adding a retired General or someone else with Defense Department experience to the ticket. Jim Webb of Virginia would be perfect. Not only is he articulate, intelligent and a good campaigner from a large swing state, he has loads of Defense Department experience AND used to be a Republican, which feeds into Obamas message of reaching across the aisle to the other party to help govern. The question is weather they want to risk losing such a good Senator from a large swing state.

Just my opinion.

The Commander
DIA

I certainly can't argue with the remarks about a VP with foreign policy experience, that's a very good point. Jim Webb would be a great choice, but I doubt that he would take it, judging by he has said about higher political office since being elected in Virginia. Wasn't it great when he was quoted as saying that he wanted to deck Bush? It was fucking priceless. This country would be in a helluva lot better shape if even half of the politicians currently in office had his integrity and backbone!

[hippifried]

Well according to AP, my guy, Bill Richardson, is dropping out of the race today. Of course the Richardson campaign is saying: "HUH?!?!?"

The polls got it wrong in NH. Big time. The prognosticators got it wrong. Big time. Even the exit polls picked the wrong winner. Ooops! Now all the pundits & pollsters & TV personalities are falling all over each other trying to figure out why.

New Hampshire is not Iowa. It's not a caucus. It's a primary by secret ballot. THE EXIT POLLS WERE WRONG!!! Yet here are the same yokels on the idiot box telling everyone that we should believe them when they tell us who voted for whom & why.

I'm loving this shit. The entire media has egg on their faces. Oh they won't figure out why or anything. We're still going to have the "horserace" as the top story, even though the idiots who are calling the race can't see the track. You'll still see some pundit talking for an hour about the only 20 second sound bite you're going to hear from the candidate themself. You know how it is. It's more important for somebody else to tell you what they meant to say or what they mean than for you to hear them tell it themselves in half the time. Gotta fill those minutes between commercials.

I hope that voters lying to the exit pollsters becomes a trend. Maybe people will start lying to all the pollsters. That would certainly make thing interesting. If the talking heads with the million dollar contracts start falling by the wayside, oh well.

[hippifried]

Well according to AP, my guy, Bill Richardson, is dropping out of the race today. Of course the Richardson campaign is saying: "HUH?!?!?"

The polls got it wrong in NH. Big time. The prognosticators got it wrong. Big time. Even the exit polls picked the wrong winner. Ooops! Now all the pundits & pollsters & TV personalities are falling all over each other trying to figure out why.

New Hampshire is not Iowa. It's not a caucus. It's a primary by secret ballot. THE EXIT POLLS WERE WRONG!!! Yet here are the same yokels on the idiot box telling everyone that we should believe them when they tell us who voted for whom & why.

I'm loving this shit. The entire media has egg on their faces. Oh they won't figure out why or anything. We're still going to have the "horserace" as the top story, even though the idiots who are calling the race can't see the track. You'll still see some pundit talking for an hour about the only 20 second sound bite you're going to hear from the candidate themself. You know how it is. It's more important for somebody else to tell you what they meant to say or what they mean than for you to hear them tell it themselves in half the time. Gotta fill those minutes between commercials.

I hope that voters lying to the exit pollsters becomes a trend. Maybe people will start lying to all the pollsters. That would certainly make thing interesting. If the talking heads with the million dollar contracts start falling by the wayside, oh well.

[hippifried]

Sorry about the double post. I knew the second I hit it the second time after I got the error report. I can't seem to find a way to just delete one of them.

[chefmike]

As far as pollsters go, beware the "voting booth conversion", which will help neither Hillary or Obama, regardless of who is eventually nominated...

[qeuqheeg222]

i agree with the commander here-whoever wins the dems ticket needs to get jim webb as the VP...the southern factor and almost as important-the gun factor!!!remember when he tried to get that gun in the capitol!!this alone would win the west for the dems................................

[El Nino]

http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/kucinich_backs_nh_recount.htm

Vote Fraud seems to be the case with these Diebold Voting Machines. Democracy is no more

[El Nino]

Thoughts on the Vote Fraud in NH

http://splitbabyniblet.blogspot.com/2008/01/thoughts-on-voting-chicanery-in-new.html