Taser ban

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

Amnesty Int. is going hard after the banning of tasers.
Saw the polish guy in the canadian airport get tasered, they said he died minutes later.

Anyone have any thoughts, or possibly any taser stories?

[Mr_Choc69]

The Taser does not need to be banned. Departments just need to do better and more detailed training on the USE of the taser. The human factor is the flaw.

[TheOne1]

non-lethal mechanical devices such as tasers, oc spray, pepper ball guns, and bean-bag guns are used not to kill, but in some cases they do.. but they are an alternative tool used rather than a gun, which usually leads to death even though police are trained to use thier gun to "stop" the person, not kill them.

for ex. if a cop comes into a situation where a 13 year old is coming after him with a hammer... he has the choice to use other non-deadly devices provided, rather than just having a gun to use which will lead to serious-bodily injury and/or death.

[dgtlmstry]

I say ban them. You give monkeys such toys, and things will degrade to what we have all seen time and time again. There were like 4 or 5 cops surrounding the guy just before they tasered him....so should I believe they couldn't all handle him? How did they get by before the taser? Oh yeah, batons. That worked well. *rolling eyes*

Anyway, I have to say that JWBL is probably right. They wont get rid of them, so I look forward to seeing one of you on youtube next.

[TheOne1]

police are trained to use thier gun to "stop" the person, not kill them.

Weeeelllllll, it's like this. Anyone, civilian or police cadet, trained in the proper use of a handgun is taught the basic rule of shooting: Aim for the torso of your object. You fire a 38, 9mm, or 45 and it hits someone's torso, there's a good chance that person will assume room temperature.

I don't have police training, but have been trained in handgun use. The saying goes: Never point your gun at something, unless you are prepared to kill it.

The reason you aim for the torso is because its the biggest target... they are not going to train in head shots, hand shots, or foot shots unless you are being trained as the dept. sniper...

but the reason they train police into "shoot to stop, not to kill" is because in a court room, it sounds much better to say "I shot the man coming at me with a chainsaw because I wanted to stop him from killing me".
better than, "I was trained in the use of my handgun to kill, so I killed him so he didn't kill me".

as you said, you were taught not to point a handgun at something unless you wanted it to "reach out and touch someone".. so why would you be against non-lethal devices for police to use?

[hondarobot]

I don't agree that tasers should be banned, any more then sharp sticks or boards with nails in them should be (actually, boards with nails should be regulated in some way, I suppose). I do have a funny taser story, though:

A co-worker was leaving our club one night, and on weekends after close the whole block becomes complete mayhem for awhile as hundreds of drunks are bum rushed outside. While working his way through the crowd that evening, he told me, a seedy looking guy approached him, produced a taser (actually on of those electro shock things) and demanded his wallet.

"What the hell did you do?", I asked him.

"Oh, I just grabbed his hand and zapped him with it." he said.

It's all in how you use it.

[Night Rider]

if a cop comes into a situation where a 13 year old is coming after him with a hammer... he has the choice to use other non-deadly devices provided, rather than just having a gun to use which will lead to serious-bodily injury and/or death.

I agree, the police need protection of some sort and in cases like this, a gun is not appropriate. Unfortunately in USA there seems to be a lot of officers that will use these devices any chance they get. Obviously there are going to be deaths from time to time, but if the police are only armed with guns then there would be a lot more.

[FREEFALLL666]

Amnesty International have truly started to fall from grace now, first they call for EASIER ABORTION and now ban Tazers?
So now you have more Police officers dying in the act of duty, and more innocents shot by the police. Truly backwards thinking on AI's part. Tazers are not called None Lethal they are called LESS Lethal, they do pose a danger but a truly slight one, if a crim is avoiding arrest with violence or just plain struggling what do AI suggest? A NightStick to the head? WHAT OTHER ALTERNATIVES ARE THERE?

[melinda g]

Many cops use Tasers on people as a form of street punishment, simply for not complying or showing proper respect. I would think three or four burly cops surrounding an unarmed person would be able to subdue and cuff that person, with out using a Taser. Why do cops order a non resisting person to lie face down on wet muddy ground, and put their hands behind them, and then tase them when they refuse? Why can't cops cuff non resisting people standing up? Why do cops tase some old woman, who simply refuses to get out of her car. If they can't drag her out of the car, maybe they should find a different line of work.

[TheOne1]

Many cops use Tasers on people as a form of street punishment, simply for not complying or showing proper respect. I would think three or four burly cops surrounding an unarmed person would be able to subdue and cuff that person, with out using a Taser. Why do cops order a non resisting person to lie face down on wet muddy ground, and put their hands behind them, and then tase them when they refuse? Why can't cops cuff non resisting people standing up? Why do cops tase some old woman, who simply refuses to get out of her car. If they can't drag her out of the car, maybe they should find a different line of work.

Why should physical force be used when other means can be used from a distance.. without having a suspects hands on his belly, then swing around with a knife and stab a cop?

people lying on the ground are less likely to turn around and swing, or to run...and if the ground is wet or muddy, cops cant control the weather or surroundings..

and when did a non-resistant old woman get tased in a drivers seat?
and old women shouldn't be driving anyway

interesting first post melinda

[dgtlmstry]

I agree with you, Melinda g, but I hope you are ready for the wrath that is about to come down on you...for not falling in line with popular opinion. Especially as that was your first post :)

[biguy4tvtscd]

Many cops use Tasers on people as a form of street punishment, simply for not complying or showing proper respect.
That may be true, but it's certainly not reason to take tasers away from all cops. This is not high school, where we take away everyones gum because little johnny won't stop chewing in class.

Sure there are bad cops, but I think they are the minority.
And I'm not about to support taking a tool out of the hands of the people we put between us and the criminals.

For those that do support such measures, I request you work a weeks shift as a police officer in some of these shit ass neighborhoods.

You deal with people who could give a rat's ass about whether you go home to your wife and kids, you deal with having a split second to determine whether or not that shadow in the suspects hand is a gun.
Deal with all that shit day in and day out, and then you have earned the right to criticize.

Finally, I have to admit I'm rather ambivalent about some people being tased after they're already subdued. Some people DO need to be taught a little lesson in respect. There's an old saying..."mess with the bull, you get the horns"

[biguy4tvtscd]

You know, the police are supposed to uphold the law, not break it.

Fucking disgraceful.

You know, you as a citizen have a role to play in this little game as well.

Treat police with respect, you will be treated with respect in kind. Treat them like they're garbage....

[Trogdor]

Ban 'em. Tasers are alot stronger than those defibulator pads that can start/stop the heart. Those damned tasers can stop someone's heart easy.

And I think the monkey cops who use these outta be made to get zapped themselves for training ( As well as getting gang beaten ) so they have an idea of what power they are weilding. And it takes REAL guts for a bunch of overweight cops to gang tackle someone, AND THEN zap 'em, while holding the fellow's head down. I can picture some old folk or some kid getting every bone in his/her body broken and having a heart attack from such an action.

I mentioned before some cop arrested some 100 pounds or less blond, who was also unarmed, and this monkey cop had to be about 250, and he was zapping her IN HAND CUFFS, and then he kept zapping her AFTER she was in the backseat of the car....this girl was then actually trying to break open the windows by stomping her feet on them while screaming for help at the top of her lungs, since she was so scared for her life. Very brave, Pig....I feel so safe with monkies like you 'protecting' us.

*Plays the song "Bad cops! Bad cops bad cops!" in tha tone Simpsons episode*

[Trogdor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMaMYL_shxc


Trooper zaps driver over speeding ticket
By Associated Press


SALT LAKE CITY -- Authorities are speeding up their investigation of a state trooper who zapped a motorist with a Taser now that video of the traffic stop has been posted on YouTube, the Utah Highway Patrol said Wednesday.

The video, taken from Trooper John Gardner's patrol car, shows him drawing his Taser after Jared Massey refused to sign a speeding ticket Sept. 14 and walked away from the officer on U.S. 40 in eastern Utah.

A surprised Massey asks, "What the heck is wrong with you?"

Gardner fires, and Massey shrieks and falls.

"Face down! Face down! Put your hands behind your back!" Gardner orders.

A woman screaming hysterically emerges from the passenger side of the sport-utility vehicle Massey was driving, and the trooper tells her to get back inside "or you're going to jail, too."

Massey could not be reached for comment Wednesday. There was no phone listed for him in the Vernal area, where authorities said he is from. The highway patrol declined to make Gardner available for comment.

"I can't speculate on what was happening in the trooper's mind," said Trooper Cameron Roden, a patrol spokesman. "We have an internal investigation going on. ... With it coming out on YouTube, we have expedited the investigation."

The 10-minute video landed on YouTube after it was released to Massey under a public records request.

"We definitely have received a lot of feedback on it, calls and e-mail," Roden said.

Signing a speeding ticket is not an admission of guilt, Roden said. He described it as a promise that a motorist "will take care of the citation."

Under patrol policy, troopers can use a Taser if someone is a threat to themselves or others and other means of control are unreasonable, Roden said. Massey has filed a complaint, Roden said. He didn't know the status of the speeding ticket.

Treat cops with respect.....pffft, what a laugh. If I were in charge, that monkey would not only get his ass fired, I'd make sure he'd never wear a badge anywhere....PERIOD. Probably some time in the grey bar hotel for awhile as well. :soapbox

Tazers are just a way for cops to get their authoratative hardons tended do.

Cops, like Politicians needs to be respectful in order to get respect. You need to earn it, it's not something you simply get, badge or no badge.

You don't like that idea, go to Iraq, Cuba or China. :actionsmiley :moon :crap :thumbsdown

[Night Rider]

Tazers are just a way for cops to get their authoratative hardons tended do.

Very true, but they also need them to defend themselves. We're forgetting what a dangerous job it is to be a police officer and the risks they take for the benfit of us. There will always be rogue officers that break the law, but stripping all officers of their weapons is just not going to happen. If they don't have tazers and they feel threatened, they might be tempted to reach for their gun.

[Night Rider]

I'm not on either of those sides. I'm on the realistic side. They need the equipment but they also should be punished severly if they're caught abusing their code of conduct.

[Dave32111]

Tazers are just another non-lethal tool on a policeman's duty belt. Banning them is rediculous. But of course, so is demonizing the billy club, but what can you do...

Would you rather he put a .45 caliber slug in a non-complying citizen? Some sort of non-lethal force is often necessary - picking which one is up to the people that train law enforcement officers. When they choose wrong, they should be punished.

Oh, and yes - respect is necessary - respect the position - they volunteer to "serve and protect." Let them do their job.

[Night Rider]

I know NR. I was directing my comments to some others who posted. Some who see the world in terms of black or white went it comes to police

Oh rite....my mistake..

[SarahG]

rather than a gun, which usually leads to death even though police are trained to use thier gun to "stop" the person, not kill them.

That's not true at all, at least in mainland US. Anyone who has been trained to use firearms knows you don't shoot someone to disable someone, you shoot someone to kill them.

If you're firing with the intent to disable either you're using too much force or not enough, there is no middle ground.

Cops are absolutely not trained to use guns to disable people nonlethally. They're trained to go for specific parts of the body to put the person down- period.


Would you rather he put a .45 caliber slug in a non-complying citizen?

That's a moot point because they're not supposed to be using guns to put down a non-complying citizen. Shooting is based on direct, real or perceived threats- not merely someone refusing to show ID or be quiet. "Nonlethal" tactics like pepperspry are used for situations where there is that kind of noncompliance- like unarmed resistance of arrest.


They need the equipment but they also should be punished severly if they're caught abusing their code of conduct.

I agree completely but it has to be more complicated than individual conduct evaluations. There needs to be clear protocols, proper training... if there are wide spread weapon misuse problems then the problem is NOT a bunch of random "bad apples" but rather a systematic defect due to insufficient oversight, training or other practices. I think complicating the issue is the belief that everytime a cop does something bad, its some random bad cop who just needs to be dealt with... this is unrealistic if a department has MASSIVE problems throughout their entire force.

[TheOne1]

rather than a gun, which usually leads to death even though police are trained to use thier gun to "stop" the person, not kill them.

That's not true at all, at least in mainland US. Anyone who has been trained to use firearms knows you don't shoot someone to disable someone, you shoot someone to kill them.

If you're firing with the intent to disable either you're using too much force or not enough, there is no middle ground.

Cops are absolutely not trained to use guns to disable people nonlethally. They're trained to go for specific parts of the body to put the person down- period.


Would you rather he put a .45 caliber slug in a non-complying citizen?

That's a moot point because they're not supposed to be using guns to put down a non-complying citizen. Shooting is based on direct, real or perceived threats- not merely someone refusing to show ID or be quiet. "Nonlethal" tactics like pepperspry are used for situations where there is that kind of noncompliance- like unarmed resistance of arrest.


They need the equipment but they also should be punished severly if they're caught abusing their code of conduct.

I agree completely but it has to be more complicated than individual conduct evaluations. There needs to be clear protocols, proper training... if there are wide spread weapon misuse problems then the problem is NOT a bunch of random "bad apples" but rather a systematic defect due to insufficient oversight, training or other practices. I think complicating the issue is the belief that everytime a cop does something bad, its some random bad cop who just needs to be dealt with... this is unrealistic if a department has MASSIVE problems throughout their entire force.

I have to disagree... police are trained to shoot to "stop", not to kill... if a police officer disarms a suspect by shooting him on the right side of his body, and the suspect drops the firearm/and or weapon.. police don't walk up and finish him off...

as I said.. in court a police officer cannot tell a jury I discharged my firearm to kill the suspect, he has to make it seem more delicate than what the actual scene was.

"mainland US" trains this way...

[trish]

Here’s the deal: we connect the battery to both the dart and the policeman’s balls. Whenever a cop tases someone, he gets a tenth of that jolt to his own nuts. This should bring about more discriminate use of a much abused tool.

[melinda g]

OK There are some good and decent cops. The problem is that in every case where someone has been tazed for no good reason, or even died, no one has been held accountable. It is always ruled justifiable. When the good cops demand some accountability for the bad cops and stop covering up for them, then they won't be tarred and feathered with the same brush.

So what if it was my first post. I discovered the site, registered, and was looking over the posts, and saw the Taser post, and replied. Is there some protocol as to what someones first post should be? :?

[SmashysmashY]

unfortunately many police officers are just jack-booted thugs that actually commit some crimes at rates higher than the general population or morons that do whatever they're told a long as they get to wear a uniform. i wouldn't trust most of them to mow my lawn much less to have the authority to go around administering electric shocks to people.

[melinda g]

Oooops, sorry. I tried to shrink that pic to avatar size. Back to the drawing board.

[justatransgirl]

Amnesty Int. is going hard after the banning of tasers.
Saw the polish guy in the canadian airport get tasered, they said he died minutes later.

Anyone have any thoughts, or possibly any taser stories?

Oh, just great... now what is Mistress Jamie going to use to keep my slaves in line?

I can't tell my taser story but suffice it to say I think all cops are psychos with guns - even the ones I've slept with professionally...

Sigh,
TS Jamie :-)

[Trogdor]

Here’s the deal: we connect the battery to both the dart and the policeman’s balls. Whenever a cop tases someone, he gets a tenth of that jolt to his own nuts. This should bring about more discriminate use of a much abused tool.

Better idea....a requirement to use one of these is for the cop to get a full jolt of it him/herself. Even better....when he/she is being held down by several over their heavyset brethern, since they always tend to tackle someone down and zap em.

[thx1138]

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Amnesty_International_Taser_victims_penalty_should _1126.html
The Raw Story | Amnesty International: A Taser victim's penalty 'should not be death'

[thx1138]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071127/dziekanski_071127/20071127?hub=TopStories
CTV.ca | Senator calls for moratorium on RCMP Taser use