Does your sexuality dictate your gender?

[justatransgirl]

I thought this deserved a new thread. It's a spin off of the "What is a TS" thread. I know it's long - it might be interesting... the questions are at the bottom. Comments please.

At what point does sexuality dictate gender?

I've been working on sort of a theory about transsexualism. Call it one persons gender exploration. That there are perhaps two general areas of transgenderism. One I call a "natural" transsexual. A person who at a very early age looks and identifies totally as a girl, regardless of social intervention or stigma. "You are not a girl." "Yes I am Mommy..."

The other is what I term an "environmental" transsexual. This is a person who didn't exhibit external gender variant insistance as a young child, but who may have a latent pre-disposition toward grender variance, which was possibly triggered or ingrained through sexual experience.

This could include societies where some boys are raised as women and serve sexually and gender wise in the female role, and take on the characteristicts of a female through association, but not necessarily due to an estrogen flood in the womb.

My own first sexual experiences were with boys and men. I believe I may have been molested along with another kid, by his older brother and a couple of his friends when I was around 7 or 8. I gave oral to a boy when I was 11 - at his suggestion. I lost my virginity to a man when I was 13. (Yeah, pedophiles are nothing new...)

I had no sexual desire to be with females as a teenager, though I liked to hang out with them, because in my secret life I was having sex as a girl. Around 14 I had an aborted attempt with a girl, I just didn't want to put my "thing" into her - I wanted to "be" her. I remember when we were in bed I thought that if I could only look like her I would be more attractive to men. A few years later I actually completed the deal, but it was kind of like, "well, glad that's over..."

Interesting enough she and I are still friends all these years later, and in a twisted twist of fate... she is partners with a transsexual woman. Came home one day to find her SO in panties and a bra. "Ah, honey I have something to tell you..." giggle.

But yet, I don't recall ever telling my parents that I was a little girl. Nor do I remember any unusual early cross dressing obsession.

My first indication that boys could actually become girls was when I was 19, in a strip bar in Ensenada, Mexico - there was a hot chick on stage dancing and my friends were playing grab ass and sticking money in her garter. As the number ended she turned around, whipped off her wig and bra and by god it was a boy! Everyone thought it was haliarious, even the guys who'd been grabbing ass. I just sat there in shock with my mouth open - wow! A boy really can become a girl.

In the 6 months or so that I've participated in this forum I've noticed a lack of acceptance here on HA by some of the younger transwomen when it comes to transsexuals who do not fit their mental or body image of what a transsexual should be. Which in general seems to be someone who transitioned in their early teens, started hormones early, and is non-distinguishable from a genetic female in appearance or actions.

So here's the first question - is a transsexual ONLY someone who comes out early in life, who insists on the cross gender role regardless of consequences? Or can it be someone who for whatever reason identifies as the opposite gender. Can it be a self, or environmentally created circumstance? And if not, why not?

Transvestisim is a fetish, transsexualism is (clinically) a medical condition. At what point do the two merge?

Can the gender role of being transsexual be a growth pattern rather than simply a biological circumstance? Meaning can it be environmental, a transitionary existance from boy to gay boy to cross dressing as gender expression, to hormones to body modification and the ultimate change of physical sex?

And at what point should social pressures be allowed to manipulate an individuals sexuality or gender expression?

Have fun with this one... seeking some serious comments please.

Hugs,
TS Jamie :-)

[Jericho]

To be honest, i only skimmed thru the op, it sounds like Nature V's Nurture. As such, a few [half-baked] thoughts from me ;-)


So here's the first question - is a transsexual ONLY someone who comes out early in life, who insists on the cross gender role regardless of consequences? Or can it be someone who for whatever reason identifies as the opposite gender. Can it be a self, or environmentally created circumstance? And if not, why not?

No. I'm sure, it wasn't possible for some girls to come out earlier in life.
For whatever reason. Could be a simple lack of knowledge on the subject [consider the amount of "Am i gay" threads from guys. How much more confusing is it for a girl?], to enviromental pressures such as fear.


Transvestisim is a fetish, transsexualism is (clinically) a medical condition. At what point do the two merge?

I think only the individual in question can answer that.


At what point does a boy who gets boob implants and transitions to life as a girl in order to work as a higher paid TS prostitute "become" a transsexual woman. I personally know two long time TS providers in just such a position. But these girls have lived as women for so long (7 and 12 years) that they identify as TS, even though they don't take hormones, and they say they like girls as well as guys, and will live the remainder of their lives as women. Are they not transsexuals too?

But are they doing it just because it pays better?
Even if they say they are, is that the real reason, or are they looking for a justification?
If it was the former, why would they carry on living a lie once they'd passed their Sell By date?


And at what point should social pressures be allowed to manipulate an individuals sexuality or gender expression?

Never [in a perfect world]

[Ecstatic]

So here's the first question - is a transsexual ONLY someone who comes out early in life, who insists on the cross gender role regardless of consequences? Or can it be someone who for whatever reason identifies as the opposite gender. Can it be a self, or environmentally created circumstance? And if not, why not?

Transvestisim is a fetish, transsexualism is (clinically) a medical condition. At what point do the two merge?
Interesting and thought-provoking, Jamie. Seems like a bit of an exercise in taxonomy: where do we draw the taxonomic lines? I definitely do NOT think that "a transsexual is ONLY someone who comes out early in life" as any number of circumstances may delay that coming out (not least of which, for some of an earlier generation--say, pre-1990--is the simple fact that transsexuality was so little known when someone born in the 1950s, 60s or 70s was in her late teens/early 20s). Not to in any way devalue any young transwoman who is living 24/7 as a woman (pre- or post-op) today, but transsexuality is far more widely known and accepted (despite huge gaps in our society as evidenced by ENDA) today than then, and thus "easier."

However, when you say "anyone who for whatever reason identifies as the opposite gender" I think you may have ventured too far from transsexuality into the broader umbrella of transgenderism. But then, where to draw that line....or is there even a need to do so? There's TS and TV at, you might say, opposite poles of the TG spectrum, but where's the crossing point? Very interesting....

[Caleigh]

My father was so NOT surprised when I told him I
was going to transition, even though I had done a
very good job of masquerading as a male for over
20 years. He immediately remembered me being
4 or 5 and dancing around the house after seeing
The Nutcracker and wanting to be the sugar plum
fairy (yes, we all get the irony of that). I did lose
my femininity though as I grew up (in a house of
all boys) and though I knew the whole time that I
wanted to transition at some point it wasn't until my
25th b-day that I felt that it was an urgent thing.

When I went to see a psychiatrist before transition,
to get a necessary legal assessment and also to
try and understand myself better the shrink told me
that my gender identity was not caused by ANY of
a long list of events, factors, triggers etc. from my
early childhood, he maintained that these events
were only significant to me BECAUSE I was TS and
therefore in retrospect they seemed like they might
be causal.