School question...

[justatransgirl]

OK this isn't exactly trans related - though it involves a transsexual. But this is the only place I know where I might find enough people of college age to get a reasonable answer.

My partner Jessica has a moron for a statisticts teacher and she's going to flunk the class as a result. Maybe not flunk but get a C and possibly a D.

I don't think its the student, I think it's the teacher. Jessica has gotten all A's thru Calculus 2 and is doing fine in Linear Algebra and Java. Her overall GPA in three years of college is 3.92. She isn't out partying - she's not even working. All she has to do is study.

But this teacher (this is University of California) is 26 years old, which means it's likely his first year teaching. He tosses all the homework onto some internet site for the kids to figure out at home. She says he never has time to get through the lesson in class (50 minute classes) and what really bothers me is he has delayed the lastest test 4 times because none of the class is getting the concepts.

I've never heard of an instructor delaying a test 4 times because the class wasn't ready.
She has also pointed out to me on several occasions incorrect formula in the questions/answers the teacher has later had to correct.

To me this points to horrible teaching, and I'm not going to have her GPA fucked up by some moron who doesn't know his subject manner. Nor am I going to pay for her to repeat the class because the guy can't teach. I'm about ready to go to the Dean and demand an investigation.

And we've tried for 5 weeks to get her a tutor without success.

Before I reign trannie terror on the college - does anyone have any similar experiences or suggestions.

Thanks,
TS Jamie :-)

And should I send this photo to the teacher and tell him this is what is in store for little Jessica if her flunks her? :-)

[SexyMagdi]

Well I think that you should go to the dean as complain and see what he can do.

[justatransgirl]

Are some, many, or most of her classmates in the same predicament? IF so, they should go to the head of the department with their concerns along with documentation (messed up formula, delayed tests, et cetera.)

Thanks for the first two comments.

Yes, apparently the majority of the class doesn't feel they are doing well either - which is apparently why the test was put off 4 times.

From what Jessica tells me I'm the only person who's a big enough bitch to be willing to rock the boat. And I don't want do it incorrectly because obviously it won't make the instructor very happy with my baby. But if she's going to flunk anyway...

TS Jamie

[Quinn]

Jamie, I wish I could tell you that there was an easy answer, but there isn’t. My former fellow students and I went through something very similar when working on my last master’s degree a couple of years ago. My advice is as follows:

1) Your going down and complaining will do absolutely nothing. In fact, it may even hurt Jessica’s cause.
2) If there is a complaint, it must come from the students within the class. A specifically worded petition signed by the majority of the class should do the trick nicely.
3) Such a petition should be submitted to the dean of the appropriate department only after the signers of the petition (or their appointed representative) confront the professor in question and don't obtain satisfactory results (which they almost certainly will not).
4) The students need to contact an attorney who specializes in education – and they must be prepared to use him/her if necessary. They will need to make certain the college/university administration knows and believes that they are prepared to pursue this in a public fashion, using all available legal means at their disposal, if the necessary corrective measures aren’t taken.

The type of results the students see will be determined by a number of factors. If they are dealing with a tenured professor, expect for it to take longer to get results. Strange as it sounds, the race and sex of the instructor/professor will likely play a very unofficial role in determining the administration's response. Lastly, whether they are dealing with a private or public institution will also play a determining role. Either way, the students can expect lots of posturing and threats before it’s over.

Bottom line: It’s a serious process that should only be undertaken if the affected students are absolutely certain that they can see it through.

-Quinn

P.S. If the students do this, they need to make certain that they tape absolutely everything from their class sessions to their meetings with the administration.

[Nowhere]

Withdraw. Most schools don't count that for or against her GPA.

Then go for another teacher next semester.

Generally speaking, I sort of 'tasted tested' all of my teachers in college, meaning I took a class or two and determined, based on that, if they were crazy / terrible and switched after that.

It worked almost flawlessly. I think I was stuck with one bad teacher the whole time.

But, in this situation, as I said, withdraw.

That GPA damage is not worth it.

[CORVETTEDUDE]

I agree with Braveman and SexyMagdi. Just because he had the credentials to get hired doesn't mean he knows what the fuck he's doing. Hard earned $$$ should not be wasted. Address the issue with the Dean.

[orbea847]

I agree with all the comments about what to do.

At my school people can withdraw from class up to the last day of class with a W on the transcript and is calculated into the GPA. However, with what is going on in the class it is possible to get an exception from the dean of that department due what is happening in the class.

[peggygee]

Jamie, I wish I could tell you that there was an easy answer, but there isn’t. My former fellow students and I went through something very similar when working on my last master’s degree a couple of years ago. My advice is as follows:

1) Your going down and complaining will do absolutely nothing. In fact, it may even hurt Jessica’s cause.
2) If there is a complaint, it must come from the students within the class. A specifically worded petition signed by the majority of the class should do the trick nicely.
3) Such a petition should be submitted to the dean of the appropriate department only after the signers of the petition (or their appointed representative) confront the professor in question and don't obtain satisfactory results (which they almost certainly will not).
4) The students need to contact an attorney who specializes in education – and they must be prepared to use him/her if necessary. They will need to make certain the college/university administration knows and believes that they are prepared to pursue this in a public fashion, using all available legal means at their disposal, if the necessary corrective measures aren’t taken.

The type of results the students see will be determined by a number of factors. If they are dealing with a tenured professor, expect for it to take longer to get results. Strange as it sounds, the race and sex of the instructor/professor will likely play a very unofficial role in determining the administration's response. Lastly, whether they are dealing with a private or public institution will also play a determining role. Either way, the students can expect lots of posturing and threats before it’s over.

Bottom line: It’s a serious process that should only be undertaken if the affected students are absolutely certain that they can see it through.

-Quinn

P.S. If the students do this, they need to make certain that they tape absolutely everything from their class sessions to their meetings with the administration.

I loved Prob & Stat. 8)

But yeah, I'm going to agree with Quinn on this. This is something that
the students individually or collectively are going to have to address. I
don't feel thar it would appropriate for someone's significant other or even
a parent to intervene.

Given the age, and from the way that you have described the instructor
I don't believe he is tenured, I tend to believe he has been paid a flat rate
for the class, hell he may still be working on his graduate degree and
fulfilling his internship requirements.

I really think if the class talks with him that this situation can be worked out.

[Xenicity]

I too experienced a horrible math instructor. The students collectively complained to the head of the department. He visited the class, and took over half way through the lecture - tossing the instructor out. The department head ran the class for the rest of the semester and it was trully terrific. I learned far more than I thought I could.

On the other hand, statistics is a specialized field that hinges on a few simple concepts and a lot of very subtle ones of an advanced nature. In a first class only the simple concepts are needed. I suspect the mechanics and arithmetic have gotten in the way of grasping the simple concepts. Try another text. A good one is in fact A cartoon Guide to Statistics. Once your friend has the simple concepts she can blow off the lectures and cruise the tests and homework. Most of a first year class is a lot of grundge and a few concepts.

Xenicity

[tonkatoy]

maybe she should spend more time studying and less time being whipped on a bed.

[nylust]

maybe she should spend more time studying and less time being whipped on a bed.

funny.

stats are different from calc. there was nothing in math that i didn't learn myself. sit down with the book, get the schaum series book, work through the problems one by one... there's no other way to learn math.

[Falrune]

I agree with the sentiment that complaining is not going to do much good. But, a young, untenured professor does need good student evaluations, so my advice is for your friend to visit the instructor often and get him/her to nail down/clarify the concepts during office hours if he/she cannot do this during lectures.

Also, as mentioned, there are some very practical stat books available, I had three, and my fav was a book (Scheffler??) that broke things down into eight main ways to analyze data (eight, LOL), which was great because that was like stats for dummies.

Anyway, your friend should turn this instructor into a tutor.

Finally, an alternative to dropping this course may be to take it pass/not pass. Does UCSD offer that option?

[scroller]

Okay, I'm moderately young and I teach college statistics. For some reason, Statistics is great with a good teacher, and the worst thing ever with a bad teacher.

I recommend that your partner withdraw -- she needs to take it over again with another teacher. It's a bad option, but there are no good ones at this point.

Here's the unexpected insight had when I started teaching at college. The teaching is the ***LEAST*** important thing that the college cares about. Especially at a big research university. If you're spending time on your teaching, your bosses may in fact complain or ridicule about it. Priorities go something like this:

(1) Research grants
(2) Publications
(3) Developing new programs to lure more students
(4) Teaching

Administration expects that some people will be good at some items and a bad teacher, and it's up to students to deal with it. Going and complaining about bad teaching will likely not make any difference if the person in question is good at items #1-3. To stretch it a bit, it may even help to convince administration that the person is in fact focused on the more lucrative money-producing aspects of their job. And in addition, the student evaluations are about the LEAST important part of judging a faculty member's teaching skills. It's kind of a mind-fuck when this dawned on me, but that's the way it is.

It can be tough. Like anything, it's best if you put in some legwork in advance and ask around for who's good and who's bad. I always feel really bad for students in your partner's position.

[justatransgirl]

Wow! Thank you everyone for taking the time to post your absolutely great suggestions.

"Scroller" that is almost exactly what her counselor said to us yesterday. I don't suppose you want to tutor?

"Xenicity," that book sounds like just what she needs, we'll look for it. Thanks.

And I promise "Tonka" and everyone, that I won't beat her no matter what happens. That by the way is my occasional slave girl Patrice in the photo not Jessica. Which was good for Jessica and painfull for Patrice! :-) Jamie the evil mistress giggles.

I should have been paying attention to the situation earlier. She is such a sweet and quiet person she let's herself get walked on in these situations.

She's going to poll some of the other students and see if there is a concensus. It really sucks at her school to withdraw. After the 3rd week you have to get special permission from the Dean of the Major, but we have talked to her counselor about the possibility and I think she will get an OK. We will know on Friday if it's possible.

I work my ass off (literally) for the money to send her to school and it really annoys me that she will probably have to take the class again.

Hugs to everyone and thanks again,
TS Jamie :-)

[scroller]

Yeah, hope this at least gives some perspective. Not to say complaining never works, it probably has somewhere sometime, but -- statistically speaking -- it's pretty unlikely.

I'd consider tutoring but I am in NY, so long-distance I wouldn't know how to do it. Best of luck.

[the1phinneas]

she will probably have to take the class again.


Tell her not to feel bad, I had the same Statistics experience. A bad teacher the first time and dropped it, and then aced it with a better instructor the following semester. Next time around be sure to check ratemyprofessors.com, I think it could be useful.

[SarahG]

OK this isn't exactly trans related - though it involves a transsexual. But this is the only place I know where I might find enough people of college age to get a reasonable answer.

My partner Jessica has a moron for a statisticts teacher and she's going to flunk the class as a result. Maybe not flunk but get a C and possibly a D.

I don't think its the student, I think it's the teacher. Jessica has gotten all A's thru Calculus 2 and is doing fine in Linear Algebra and Java. Her overall GPA in three years of college is 3.92. She isn't out partying - she's not even working. All she has to do is study.

But this teacher (this is University of California) is 26 years old, which means it's likely his first year teaching. He tosses all the homework onto some internet site for the kids to figure out at home. She says he never has time to get through the lesson in class (50 minute classes) and what really bothers me is he has delayed the lastest test 4 times because none of the class is getting the concepts.

I've never heard of an instructor delaying a test 4 times because the class wasn't ready.
She has also pointed out to me on several occasions incorrect formula in the questions/answers the teacher has later had to correct.

To me this points to horrible teaching, and I'm not going to have her GPA fucked up by some moron who doesn't know his subject manner. Nor am I going to pay for her to repeat the class because the guy can't teach. I'm about ready to go to the Dean and demand an investigation.

And we've tried for 5 weeks to get her a tutor without success.

Before I reign trannie terror on the college - does anyone have any similar experiences or suggestions.

Thanks,
TS Jamie :-)

And should I send this photo to the teacher and tell him this is what is in store for little Jessica if her flunks her? :-)

How long have you known there was a problem?

Never be afraid of dropping the course. Find out when the last day is to drop and get a refund (full or partial) and take advantage of it immediately if you dislike the professor.

If the whole class is having problems, report it to the dean (as already suggested). If enough complain, it usually works.


She's going to poll some of the other students and see if there is a concensus. It really sucks at her school to withdraw. After the 3rd week you have to get special permission from the Dean of the Major, but we have talked to her counselor about the possibility and I think she will get an OK. We will know on Friday if it's possible.

Which institution is that? I'd never be willing to go to a school with a policy that fucked up.

If your school isn't going to cater to your needs, get a better school. The student is there as the paying customer. They work for YOU, not the other way around.

[Felicia Katt]

And should I send this photo to the teacher and tell him this is what is in store for little Jessica if her flunks her? :-)

http://www.hungangels.com/board/files/whipping_396.gif
its statistics not sadistics. LOL

meow

FK

[CORVETTEDUDE]

Okay, I'm moderately young and I teach college statistics. For some reason, Statistics is great with a good teacher, and the worst thing ever with a bad teacher.

I recommend that your partner withdraw -- she needs to take it over again with another teacher. It's a bad option, but there are no good ones at this point.

Here's the unexpected insight had when I started teaching at college. The teaching is the ***LEAST*** important thing that the college cares about. Especially at a big research university. If you're spending time on your teaching, your bosses may in fact complain or ridicule about it. Priorities go something like this:

(1) Research grants
(2) Publications
(3) Developing new programs to lure more students
(4) Teaching

Administration expects that some people will be good at some items and a bad teacher, and it's up to students to deal with it. Going and complaining about bad teaching will likely not make any difference if the person in question is good at items #1-3. To stretch it a bit, it may even help to convince administration that the person is in fact focused on the more lucrative money-producing aspects of their job. And in addition, the student evaluations are about the LEAST important part of judging a faculty member's teaching skills. It's kind of a mind-fuck when this dawned on me, but that's the way it is.

It can be tough. Like anything, it's best if you put in some legwork in advance and ask around for who's good and who's bad. I always feel really bad for students in your partner's position.


Then sounds to me like all of you should have your asses reamed with a 16" gun!!!

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Withdraw. Most schools don't count that for or against her GPA.

Then go for another teacher next semester.

That's good advice Nowhere. That's what I did when I got a BITCH for a professor. I dropped her subject and took it the following semester under another professor. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[scroller]

Then sounds to me like all of you should have your asses reamed with a 16" gun!!!

And once again I get slammed for trying to help students with math. Ah, well, nothing new there.

[InHouston]

Withdraw. Most schools don't count that for or against her GPA.

Then go for another teacher next semester.

Generally speaking, I sort of 'tasted tested' all of my teachers in college, meaning I took a class or two and determined, based on that, if they were crazy / terrible and switched after that.

It worked almost flawlessly. I think I was stuck with one bad teacher the whole time.

But, in this situation, as I said, withdraw.

That GPA damage is not worth it.

I agree. There's little you can do about a bad instructor. Drop the class and take it again under another professor.

[rawrr]

Nothing bad about a C grade btw, its a pass. Also a D is a pass but a pass pass at that.

[Falrune]

Nothing bad about a C grade btw, its a pass. Also a D is a pass but a pass pass at that.

This used to be true, but nowadays, if a person want's to go into a graduate or professional school, it may hurt. But, if she's going to have a problem with this course regardless of who's teaching it, and just wants to be done with it, withdrawal from this course is NOT as good an option as taking the course PASS/NOT PASS. This is why I previously said she may wish to consider the P/NP option rather than withdrawal.

[BrendaQG]

Ok.

I would tell your partner to withdraw if she thinks that she is going to fail. That's the sensible thing to do. Some schools have a deadline after which withdrawal is not an option. If that is the case then depending on the schools policies she could petition (or whatever that school calls it) to drop the course for a special reason. Gross incompetence of the instructor.. The dean will either sign off or not. If she is denied then all I can say is work really really hard and try to get a C.

Let me point out some things from the perspective of the instructor.

First one observation. A 26 year old teaching a course could be in one of a few situations.

1.) They got a PhD at about 25 and are a fully tenure tracked professor. Such people are often great at doing but horrible at teaching.

2.) They either have a Masters and are "Adjunct" (part time) faculty...

3.) or they are a PhD. Student who is a TA as is required by some schools.

In either case they would likely have their very own really complex homework, and research to do. Which would naturally distract from their teaching duties. Duties for which the average TA makes about $1500 per month probably much much less.

I know this because most people I go to school with are paying their way through as TA's (Teaching Assistants) RA's (Research Assistants) or graders for large classes. The person teaching that course is likely to be bogged down with so much of their own work that they just cannot give 100% to the course.

[Quinn]

Some schools have a deadline after which withdrawal is not an option.

It has been my experience that, though certainly not universal, this is the policy enforced at a majority of schools (5 of the 6 that I have attended anyway). Falrune is also correct in stating that a C may matter when attempting to gain admission to a graduate or professional school, especially if it's a competitive one. Moreover, in a day when many leading companies have demanding requirements – like a four-year degree with a 3.8 GPA from a good school, etc. – every grade really does count.

-Quinn

[JohnnyVee]

Ok.

Let me point out some things from the perspective of the instructor.

First one observation. A 26 year old teaching a course could be in one of a few situations.

1.) They got a PhD at about 25 and are a fully tenure tracked professor. Such people are often great at doing but horrible at teaching.

2.) They either have a Masters and are "Adjunct" (part time) faculty...

3.) or they are a PhD. Student who is a TA as is required by some schools.

In either case they would likely have their very own really complex homework, and research to do. Which would naturally distract from their teaching duties. Duties for which the average TA makes about $1500 per month probably much much less.

I know this because most people I go to school with are paying their way through as TA's (Teaching Assistants) RA's (Research Assistants) or graders for large classes. The person teaching that course is likely to be bogged down with so much of their own work that they just cannot give 100% to the course.

This was my initial impression as well. A lot of TA/RA are teaching because they..well..they have to, not because they want to.

Back in the day, I thought a semester depended on not only which classes I took, but also who was teaching the class. Some of the best classes were taught be Professors emeritus. These folks were teaching because they LOVED teaching, that makes such a big difference regardless of the subject matter.

[goldensamba]

Thanks for the first two comments.

Yes, apparently the majority of the class doesn't feel they are doing well either - which is apparently why the test was put off 4 times.

From what Jessica tells me I'm the only person who's a big enough bitch to be willing to rock the boat. And I don't want do it incorrectly because obviously it won't make the instructor very happy with my baby. But if she's going to flunk anyway...

TS Jamie

You can't be the one to do it because that makes it all hearsay. It's got to be the students with documentation in hand or else they won't get anywhere.

[justatransgirl]

Thanks everyone some really great comments. It's really great to know there's so many caring people here willing to help a stranger.

I received a call from Jessica around noon today. She met with her instructor today and he's revised her last test from a 60 to a 70 (D to C) so if she doesn't flub anything else she should get a C for the course.

And yes Brenda, that sounds like the teacher fits one of those parameters.

And to whoever asked how long we've known of the problem - about a month. It took the tutoring program 3 weeks to find her a tutor. The first appt was set for AFTER her second test... that's helpfull. Then the fires happened last week and the campus was closed.

We had a new appt lined up for this week, and Monday she said she "didn't feel comfortable" tutoring Jessica - whatever the Fk that means. (That's when I decided to post here.) We have another one set for next Monday.

Her school doesn't allow withdrawal after the 3rd week unless there's a serious issue, which this may or may not qualify as. The only option they offer is a total withdrawal from college. It's crazy. I've never heard of this. When I went to college, you could drop until about the 5th week and withdraw until the last day. So everyone who doesn't do well withdraws before the final and tries again.

The thing is she's getting "A's" in all her other classes. Told me today she got 100% on her Discrete Math (Logic) test and is doing good in Linear Algebra and Java. That's why I think it's the teacher not the student.

Anyway we both want to thank everyone again from the bottom of our hearts for your help and concern, it really makes us feel good.

Hugs,
Jamie and Jessica :-)