Why dosen't science hold more peoples interest?

[BrendaQG]

My mother , god bless her, says to me "Why do you watch that depressing stuff?" She says that whenever I am watching a TV show about science. Back in highschool I had an english teacher who had to do a little math on the board. 20-12. She got it wrong. Many many guys I know or have known think science is boring and dull just by it's nature.

Why is this?

I think it is because of the way science is presented in the earliest grades. It is presented as wrote recitation of facts from books that were written a long time ago. It is taught as something that lacks creativity, and freshness. It is taught as...trivia to be answered then forgotten and never used.

That way of teaching science bored me so much even I at one time was really sour on it.

This is such a diverse place. What I wonder is if people in other places in the USA and elsewhere had that experience?

[cockcraver]

some parts of science fascinates me and some bores me to tears! im more interested in e.t life and that sort of stuff...i mean there are billions of galaxies and its alsmost certain that there is life goin on somewhere else but here....

[BrendaQG]

some parts of science fascinates me and some bores me to tears! im more interested in e.t life and that sort of stuff...i mean there are billions of galaxies and its alsmost certain that there is life goin on somewhere else but here....


Tell me have you ever read a book on so called exobioogy or astrobiology? One that's not technical or anything?

There sure is good reason to believe in ET life. But say that in many mainstream places and you will be looked upon as a fool, or nut. Say that in a school and you will be called disturbed or disruptive. The belive in ET life disturbs the status quo of religion and society. So people who bring up the possibility are discredited.

The same things happen in grade schools and high schools. Most of which are concerned with enforcing conformity not education. The free pursuit of inquiry and discovery just does not happen.

[cockcraver]

[BrendaQG wrote:
Tell me have you ever read a book on so called exobioogy or astrobiology?]

no i havent but ill def check them out

thanks

[TJT]

I think it's the way it's taught and the background of the science teachers. (and teachers of other subjects in general.)

Most states require and education major to qualify to teach in their schools. That means most of science teachers are going to have a minored in the subject at best.

Two, a specialized science degree will generally land you a nice paying job in the private sector out of college. Only wealthy school districts/private schools can afford to compete for science majors who will also meet standards to be certified to teach.

Three,if a science major does have a yen to teach,there's a heck of a lot more money to be made on the college level. Stick around three more years get your PhD and go shopping for colleges w/ a fast tracke to making tenured prof.

With those factors alone you end up with a lot of half-assed science teachers in the secondary school system. Throw in the current anti-science bias rampant in this country w/ "No Child Left Behind" and you get watered down drivel being taught.

BTW,is it obvious that I'm the son of two long time teachers who bemoaned the decline of education in this country?

[trish]

I blame colleges of education. K-12 teachers of science and mathematics used to be people who had degrees in science and mathematics. Now they have degrees in education. A typical math teacher has more courses on the child development, teaching tactics and strategies and courses on how specifically to teach science and mathematics than they have courses on science and mathematics. Modern teachers are in love with teaching, but few are in love with the subjects they teach. I’m sorry to vent, but this is a big problem with education in the U.S.

On a personal level I don’t understand why people don’t find the world fascinating. I look at a drop of viscious fluid falling through oil and wanna know why the fuck is it shaped like that!!! What exactly is that shape? Can I figure it out? Can we predict what’s going to happen to the shape when we change the weight of the oil or the viscosity of the drop? Of course I can sit hours in front of a lava lamp, my mind tumbling with questions and the wax tumbling through the convection currents.

[trish]

now i have to apologize immediately. there are lot's of dedicated and wonderful teachers out there. and as far as i know TJT's parents are among the best. again...i'm venting...pay me no mind.

[TJT]

Don't sweat it,the folks were ranting about the way things in education were going until they went to their reward.

Both were principals late in their careers. They were getting a stream of imbeciles coming out of colleges w/ education degrees looking for teaching jobs.

Someone with a major in field "x" wanting to teach in public schools would have to put in another 4 years getting an education degree. It was and is ridiculous.

[blckhaze]

well, being that I'm curently schooling for my masters in Chem. Engineering, i can often see why people get bored with science. Often times sciences teachers dont present the topics with much passion to begin with, plus, some of the stuff is quite hard to grasp, and many people dont like things they dont understand. If i tried to explain what my major is to a new acquaintance I usually get blank and confused stares. Personally, when i was growing up, i always liked finding out how things were made, and how they worked, so I naturally gravitated to sciences and math. But overall, its how you present a topic thats key during the early stages. Just look at sesame street. They make learning one letter lok like a day at the amusment park to a 2 year old.

[qeuqheeg222]

people like to to be told things versus searching for truth..did jesus give em fishes or teach em to fish...kids need to be energized by science...seeing things passionately and as a explanatory story of our surroundings...i agree trish i always like to "ponder" but it seems theses days the youth only want to consume....iphone,ipod,textmessage,paris hilton derived shoppin techniques.................

[Caleigh]

I just don't think that often enough kids are turned
on to the magic of the natural world but I was very
lucky in that my Dad was a H.S. science teacher
and also an avid naturalist in the 19th century
application of the term. He was in awe of the natural
world and took every chance to point out to me
how complex and mysterious it is.

The other thing is that to be into science you have
to be curious and very simply not everyone is, most
people are happy to just GET things or USE things
they don't have any care where/how these things
came to be or how they work.

[Jericho]

Poor quality teaching staff in general not just science.
And not confined to the states either.

Back when i was in school, at the beginning of term, the history teacher 'apologised' to the class because she was forced by the national curriculum to teach this boring stuff.

The boring stuff was...The Industrial Revolution!

What chance did we have after that?

[BrendaQG]

I think it's the way it's taught and the background of the science teachers. (and teachers of other subjects in general.)

Most states require and education major to qualify to teach in their schools. That means most of science teachers are going to have a minored in the subject at best.

Two, a specialized science degree will generally land you a nice paying job in the private sector out of college. Only wealthy school districts/private schools can afford to compete for science majors who will also meet standards to be certified to teach.

Three,if a science major does have a yen to teach,there's a heck of a lot more money to be made on the college level. Stick around three more years get your PhD and go shopping for colleges w/ a fast tracke to making tenured prof.

With those factors alone you end up with a lot of half-assed science teachers in the secondary school system. Throw in the current anti-science bias rampant in this country w/ "No Child Left Behind" and you get watered down drivel being taught.

BTW,is it obvious that I'm the son of two long time teachers who bemoaned the decline of education in this country?

I just want to say that everything in your post is a misconception or falsehood.

Most PhD'd professors work in a "adjunct" capacity on 9-10 month contracts for each year. According to numbers from the American Physical society such people made $56,000 in total compensation in 2004. Right off of getting the coveted PhD. They make about 36,000 as what is called a Post Doctoral Fellow. Grad students like me make/are loaned/ are granted no more than $27500 per year.

Trust me there is not good money in science. There is just being comfortably middle class (if you don't have kids or debts which many young scientist have both).

[BrendaQG]

Just what I thought.

If you are old enough to remember Ferris Buler's day off, and ben Stein saying "Buler,.... Buler,.... Buler,.... " Like he was just going to go on saying that forever like a retarded robot.

@Trish.

I know, I know. What you said about how so many people lack curiosity is probably right. What does not help is that so much of the message we get when we are young suppresses curiosity. You know how some people wil have their kids ask them a question and will tell the kid to shut up? Or people who answer everything with a bible story and anything contrary to that story is sinful? School is then the last place where society says...."so what if you are interested in this drops in a viscous fluid, we think someone like you is more suited to (name stereotypical jobs)."

[mbf]

I think it is because of the way science is presented in the earliest grades. It is presented as wrote recitation of facts from books that were written a long time ago. It is taught as something that lacks creativity, and freshness. It is taught as...trivia to be answered then forgotten and never used.

That way of teaching science bored me so much even I at one time was really sour on it.

This is such a diverse place. What I wonder is if people in other places in the USA and elsewhere had that experience?

is the same. and it might be even worse by now than when I was in highschool (ten yrs ago). school did punish non-conformity back then. non-conformity as in beeing curious and asking questions I might add. people learn best through personal experience, yet the teaching environment inhibits that.

as for science, I hold a degree in archeology. so I am a "scientist" (lol) but I also work to get our work exposed to amateurs and interested outsiders, like schools and kids. I try to avoid those weak points about spreading knowledge back from my highschool days (oh, to worsen things, it was a catholic private school.....) and involve people as much as possible. but, I am not a teacher whatsoever. still, I d like my field of knowledge to be presented with style, accuracy and a little bit of humor.

for the science "community" as a whole: I wish there were more people like Erwin Chargaff or Joseph Weizenbaum, aces in their field but also critical of what scientists do, especially when it comes to involvement with the military or big corporations. (this wasnt exactly on topic but I felt like posting it anyways....)

[trish]

I hear that the TV show “Numbers” is creating some interest in mathematics among kids of high school age. Is this really true, or is it just hype? I can vouch that the other investigative dramas (CSI, NCIS, etc.) have generated a flood of college undergrads majoring in forensic related fields. Law enforcement departments are bursting at the seams. If TV shows can have this effect on young minds why don’t science fiction films produce the same sort of interest in science among the young minds? I must confess that I adore sci-fi no matter how bad. I’m especially attentive during the exposition where the handsome/beautiful young scientist explains to the movie audience what’s going on. Apparently action, drama and special effects are enough.

Some conjectures:
1) The typical crime drama shows people in realistic and seemingly attainable jobs (albeit the depiction of that job is unrealistic). These jobs seem exciting, challenging but also attainable. Is that why kids are attracted to forensics?

2) The typical sci-fi scientist is either an evil genius, or a misunderstood genius fighting to gain recognition among her peers, or an old established wise and kindly genius who can quickly diagnose a dangerous situation, or etc. The short of it is: the sci-fi scientist is a genius. Most kids know they aren’t geniuses. So most kids think they can’t be scientists. Because of this stereotype, science only attracts the confident.

3. Generally, when they think of what sorts of jobs they would like to have as an adult, kids lack the creativity to invent roles and niches for themselves. They have to be shown explicit examples (real or fictional) of people doing various jobs. To be attractive those jobs have to be exciting. They have to be the sort of job that demands respect. They have to be challenging. But they can’t be too challenging. They have to be jobs that seem attainable.

[BrendaQG]

Trish. Aside from the money thing (some stats (http://cnr2.kent.edu/ug_pages/careers.html)) what you said is right. There is nothing I have grown to hate more than the old mad scientist stereotype. Wild hair, no social life... wait there are people here in Chicago who would say that about me so never mind. :-/ But you see what I am saying? Ok so I am a bad example of a non-sterotypical scientist, except for those aspects which make me a quite sterotypical transsexual. :-\ My point is that I cosign with everything you say and think that the sterotype of a scientist being a older, rich, white male needs breaking.

Also what you pointed out about the crime drama's is so true. I would say the same thing about TV programs that show what biologist do,...or psychology. Or if you have ever watched "Myth Busters". You have really good points.

[hippifried]

I blame the system itself. Look who the teachers are. They're the ones who breezed school. I'm not saying they didn't have to work hard, but they're the ones who clicked with the system as it is. They liked it, so they never left. It's self-perpetuating. It worked for them, so it must work for everybody. Nobody thinks outside the box because they are the box.

The kids who struggle in school aren't necessarily lazy or slow. They just don't click with the one-size-fits-all system. There are different concepts & angles of approach when trying to learn anything. A lot of times, a different approach will clarify a concept so the data can just flow in. Everybody's a little different.

[BrendaQG]

I blame the system itself. Look who the teachers are. They're the ones who breezed school. I'm not saying they didn't have to work hard, but they're the ones who clicked with the system as it is. They liked it, so they never left. It's self-perpetuating. It worked for them, so it must work for everybody. Nobody thinks outside the box because they are the box.

So true. Look at who teaches in those crucial early "primary" grades. Young women who probably did not like science as a subject in school either. Probably because the like things that are "creative" and the way that science is taught is so often to teach it as if it were just dry repeating of known facts.

This attitude is so pervasive that many get the idea that all there is to being a working scientist is to read books! I wonder....just who do such people think writes those books and discovers the facts in them anyway?

Someone else said what had to be said better than me. Usually he is quoted here only partially.

"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. " - Albert Einstein

[hippifried]

Look at who teaches in those crucial early "primary" grades. Young women who probably did not like science as a subject in school either. Probably because the like things that are "creative" and the way that science is taught is so often to teach it as if it were just dry repeating of known facts.
Not necessarily. They teach by rote because they were taught by rote, & it worked for them. This isn't diabolical. It's closer to memetic. It's just that people who struggle in school, even if they got through it & beat the system by getting high marks, don't go into teaching. Teaching is staying in school. It's a move up the ranks, yes, but you're still there. People who don't like school move on to other things.

I see this as a problem because it supports rigidity. The techniques get refined, but they're still the same techniques. Everybody learns differently. Every person will use a slightly different synaptic pathway to take in the same information. One size does NOT fit all. After generations of this, the schools have just become training for future teachers. Everybody else gets lost in the shuffle.

[BrendaQG]

Not necessarily. They teach by rote because they were taught by rote, & it worked for them. This isn't diabolical. It's closer to memetic.

Exactly. It is a vicious cycle. I mean. How many people would want to be artist or singers if they thought they could only paint or sing the same old things over and over?

Thanks you all. This is going to help allot.

[Somedude21]

Well, lemme see 'ere...

I first started taking the sciences in middle school, and I have to say...it was the most boring thing I have ever had to do, save for math. Then I got to high school (Niles West for you Chicagoians out there...well, it's in Skokie, but it's the Chicagoland area) and everything changed. While the first year of sciences were so-so for me, Sophomore Biology completely changed my outlook on the sciences. I don't know if it was just the way it was taught or the material, but I found Bio to be the most interesting class that I took in all my four years of high school. While I know I would have done better had I not slacked off so much (got like a 75 in the class--C), it still had my rapt attention just learning about the way that nature worked. I especially loved the way that the human body and cell structures worked. Just thinking about all the little miracles that happened inside our own bodies every day just to keep us functioning had me gaping with awe every day.

Then Chemistry came along in my Junior year. With the introduction of math into the sciences, I was completely turned off by it. Despite having a great teacher in the subject (she knew what she was talking about, that much I could tell...she was a double education/science major who was teaching at the high school level). I was actually scared off by the prospect of having to take Physics and instead took...a free period. -_- But that doesn't mean that I won't go back into the sciences again: far from it, as soon as I get to University, I plan on going right into Biology again. My strengths still lie in History, English and the other liberal arts, though.

Anyway. Sorry for that little rant there. Just thought that people might want to understand where I'm coming from here.

What I'm trying to get at is this: I think that for the most part people just find the sciences confusing. I know that I sure did when math was thrown into the mix. Maybe it's just the way my brain is wired, but I have something of a math block: anything involving numbers immediately just turns off the learning process. And I think that's the same thing that happens with most kids who go into the sciences today. I'm not saying take the math out of the sciences; I know that cannot be done. But I'm saying that perhaps if its presented in an easier format...if it's given to children at a young age in a more exciting manner and showed to them, then maybe, just maybe, we'll start to see a resurgance of science in this nation.

I also like the point of the effect that TV can have on its viewers. Certainly, with the success of shows like CSI and Law and Order (the latter of which helped to solidify my choice to become a lawyer, I do admit), there has to be SOMETHING that can help people to get into the sciences more. I know that I loved Star Trek and Star Wars growing up, but that's just not enough. There needs to be a big, major series with a serious science side to it. Something that the common person can understand, but the science-minded can still enjoy. If something like that can catch on to the mainstream, I promise you that there will be at least a small spike in science across the nation. That, combined with better teaching at the earlier levels of schooling will seriously help this issue, I think.

The sad thing is...not only do I not see this happening, but for the latter part of that to work (the teaching part), there has to be a change on the individual level of the teachers working today. Newer teachers also have to be taught differently. It's going to take a mountain of change for that to work. Somehow, I don't think that the bigwigs up in Washington are too worried about it, either...and thus, we won't see any changes in this until it's a glaring problem staring everyone in America right in the face.

[justatransgirl]

Hi kids - I don't get to this forum much.

Jessica has an AS degree in Science and is working on the BS in Computer Science and Physics. (Not bad for a prostitute, eh?)

She watches all those programs on TV and the stuff she knows... Sheesh - she's like a walking encyclopedia.

One time I told her she should be studying quantum physics. She ask me if I knew what it was, which I really don't. Then proceeded to tell me all about it, which I forgot.

So anything you need to know about anything, just ask her.

And anything you need to know about sex ask me...

Giggle,
TS Jamie :-)

[casca82]

most people are just, not that bright. Ask most people how their cell phone , pc or for that mater any tech the use in their daily lives works. They would have no clue whatsoever, how it works or understand why. :twisted: