Don't tase me, bro!

[Toro]

I freaking love that line.....lol. It's my new "get off my back!".

I have mixed feelings about campus police using stun guns and tasers, but shit - in this day and age, you never know what's going to go down when someone starts raising hell at a public forum.

[BeardedOne]

That line will live in infamy.

I watched the vid. Neither side was right, nor won, that brawl.

Kerry was an afterthought.

Am I the only one that found it disturbing that the onlookers were laughing while they tased this guy?

[SarahG]

That line will live in infamy.

I watched the vid. Neither side was right, nor won, that brawl.

Kerry was an afterthought.

Am I the only one that found it disturbing that the onlookers were laughing while they tased this guy?

No, I likewise take issue to that, especially since I know some people that run the risk of death from these guns due to uber rare, but nontheless dangerious heart problems.

But even if that was not an aspect of the situation, just because something is nonlethal or doesnt result in injury, doesn't mean it should be carelessly used on the masses.

In this case I actually feel sorry for the cops involved, most departments don't offer shit in terms of training for situations like these. Not alot of departments do riot training, which I think is critical when it comes to police conduct in situations with civil disobedience.

[Mac_Hine]

That line will live in infamy.

I watched the vid. Neither side was right, nor won, that brawl.

Kerry was an afterthought.

Am I the only one that found it disturbing that the onlookers were laughing while they tased this guy?
In the grand scheme of things, sure it's disturbing. But if it was my buddy that got tazered for being a jerkoff, I'd be laughing my ass off too.

[Legend]

This whole situation is being blown out of proportion,the guy was a loudmouth jerk who tried to make a scene,he then resisted arrest and got owned.

"bro don't tase me"

Ok then stop fucking resisting the police.

[Quinn]

Personally, I roar with laughter every time I see or hear that video. No matter how you cut it, seeing idiots getting tased is always funny.

-Quinn

[NYCe]

:D

[Jericho]

That was piss poor policing. What are they teaching those idiots?
[though it was kinda funny!]

[GroobySteven]

Some stupid ass postings here - typical of legend to jump in!

There were five fucking policemen and one loud mouthed idiot. They had him restrained. There was no need to taze him (and I hurt people yelling for them to stop as well as some laughter). It was nothing to do with Kerry, it was poorly trained police and they're lucky they didn't start a riot.

When police resort to tactics like this - and the same people supporting the police are probably the same people complaining about human rights in other countries, then it's little wonder the US is in the mess it's in.

They could have easily restrained him, escorted out of the building and taken him downtown too cool off. (or more likely given him a kicking when the cameras were off). Even easier would have been for Kerry to answer those questions and let the guy have his 5 min speech, if he was any sort of politician he should heva been able to turn the question around to his advantage.
There was no risk to him apart from embarressment.

BTW if it was my buddy I'd be laughing also - but probaby in a cell next to him as I would have had to throw something at those clowns.

[Legend]

Some stupid ass postings here - typical of legend to jump in!

There were five fucking policemen and one loud mouthed idiot. They had him restrained. There was no need to taze him (and I hurt people yelling for them to stop as well as some laughter). It was nothing to do with Kerry, it was poorly trained police and they're lucky they didn't start a riot.

When police resort to tactics like this - and the same people supporting the police are probably the same people complaining about human rights in other countries, then it's little wonder the US is in the mess it's in.

They could have easily restrained him, escorted out of the building and taken him downtown too cool off. (or more likely given him a kicking when the cameras were off). Even easier would have been for Kerry to answer those questions and let the guy have his 5 min speech, if he was any sort of politician he should heva been able to turn the question around to his advantage.
There was no risk to him apart from embarressment.

BTW if it was my buddy I'd be laughing also - but probaby in a cell next to him as I would have had to throw something at those clowns.


I don't know how resisting arrest works down there in europe but if you resist arrest down here your lucky to even get tased,ask rodney king.I don't know what video you look at but i saw a guy acting like a nutcase who wouldn't sit down after asking his one question or even let it be answered,their were others who probably wanted to ask the senator a question but couldn't because of a nutcase who had a agenda from the beginning.I find it hysterical when people refer to this incident as excessive force by the police when much worser incidents like this go unnoticed.

[NewYorker]

Some stupid ass postings here - typical of legend to jump in!

There were five fucking policemen and one loud mouthed idiot. They had him restrained. There was no need to taze him (and I hurt people yelling for them to stop as well as some laughter). It was nothing to do with Kerry, it was poorly trained police and they're lucky they didn't start a riot.

When police resort to tactics like this - and the same people supporting the police are probably the same people complaining about human rights in other countries, then it's little wonder the US is in the mess it's in.

They could have easily restrained him, escorted out of the building and taken him downtown too cool off. (or more likely given him a kicking when the cameras were off). Even easier would have been for Kerry to answer those questions and let the guy have his 5 min speech, if he was any sort of politician he should heva been able to turn the question around to his advantage.
There was no risk to him apart from embarressment.

BTW if it was my buddy I'd be laughing also - but probaby in a cell next to him as I would have had to throw something at those clowns.


I don't know how resisting arrest works down there in europe but if you resist arrest down here your lucky to even get tased,ask rodney king.I don't know what video you look at but i saw a guy acting like a nutcase who wouldn't sit down after asking his one question or even let it be answered,their were others who probably wanted to ask the senator a question but couldn't because of a nutcase who had a agenda from the beginning.I find it hysterical when people refer to this incident as excessive force by the police when much worser incidents like this go unnoticed.

except if you knew anything about how the police are supposed to work, as opposed to how undertrained asshole work, you'd know it is excessive force. As someone who has several NY cops in his family I can tell you there are certain procedures that they're supposed to follow when dealing with rowdy individuals and a whole different set for when deal with "a nutcase" as you call it. These procedures can't be that different from state to state but those officers didn't follow any of them.

[TheOne1]

Some stupid ass postings here - typical of legend to jump in!

There were five fucking policemen and one loud mouthed idiot. They had him restrained. There was no need to taze him (and I hurt people yelling for them to stop as well as some laughter). It was nothing to do with Kerry, it was poorly trained police and they're lucky they didn't start a riot.

When police resort to tactics like this - and the same people supporting the police are probably the same people complaining about human rights in other countries, then it's little wonder the US is in the mess it's in.

They could have easily restrained him, escorted out of the building and taken him downtown too cool off. (or more likely given him a kicking when the cameras were off). Even easier would have been for Kerry to answer those questions and let the guy have his 5 min speech, if he was any sort of politician he should heva been able to turn the question around to his advantage.
There was no risk to him apart from embarressment.

BTW if it was my buddy I'd be laughing also - but probaby in a cell next to him as I would have had to throw something at those clowns.


I don't know how resisting arrest works down there in europe but if you resist arrest down here your lucky to even get tased,ask rodney king.I don't know what video you look at but i saw a guy acting like a nutcase who wouldn't sit down after asking his one question or even let it be answered,their were others who probably wanted to ask the senator a question but couldn't because of a nutcase who had a agenda from the beginning.I find it hysterical when people refer to this incident as excessive force by the police when much worser incidents like this go unnoticed.

I agree with legend on this one... they were doing as they are trained.. and they are trained by your tax dollars...so if you don't like it, voice your opinion to the higher-ups...

they followed the order.... constructive force, physical force, and then mechanical force..

[trish]

Just because there are worse cases doesn't mean this one isn't an example of excessive force. The man was restrained. There was no need to taser him.

[SarahG]

Some stupid ass postings here - typical of legend to jump in!

There were five fucking policemen and one loud mouthed idiot. They had him restrained. There was no need to taze him (and I hurt people yelling for them to stop as well as some laughter). It was nothing to do with Kerry, it was poorly trained police and they're lucky they didn't start a riot.

When police resort to tactics like this - and the same people supporting the police are probably the same people complaining about human rights in other countries, then it's little wonder the US is in the mess it's in.

They could have easily restrained him, escorted out of the building and taken him downtown too cool off. (or more likely given him a kicking when the cameras were off). Even easier would have been for Kerry to answer those questions and let the guy have his 5 min speech, if he was any sort of politician he should heva been able to turn the question around to his advantage.
There was no risk to him apart from embarressment.

BTW if it was my buddy I'd be laughing also - but probaby in a cell next to him as I would have had to throw something at those clowns.


I don't know how resisting arrest works down there in europe but if you resist arrest down here your lucky to even get tased,ask rodney king.I don't know what video you look at but i saw a guy acting like a nutcase who wouldn't sit down after asking his one question or even let it be answered,their were others who probably wanted to ask the senator a question but couldn't because of a nutcase who had a agenda from the beginning.I find it hysterical when people refer to this incident as excessive force by the police when much worser incidents like this go unnoticed.

It was bad policing, probably due to poor or nonexistant training for settings like this.

Honestly, it doesn't matter if the guy they tased was some crazy, rude, loud nutjob... what matters is how the police reacted to it. Its a glimpse to a much larger problem such as your King example.

And your King example illustrates how poor policing can lead to riots. Remember the fires in LA. Or seatle for a more political example.

Everyone wins when law enforcement are properly trained and are willing to obide by such instructions. But its a rarity, and only amplified by the political trend of treating all protests as acts of terrorism. You respond to the relationship between law enforcement & protests using training and protocol.

You don't respond to it by eroding civil liberties (protest zones), R&Ding then implementing nonlethal "civilian control' or armed overkill response.

[hondarobot]

This is "news" on the level of Britney Spears shaving her head. Some guy pulled a prank, some cops acted like goons, Kerry looks like a clown, and a new Youtube catch phrase is born. It happens once a week. The prankster set the situation up to play out kinda like that anyways. Probably didn't figure on the taser.

That's showbiz these days, I guess. It's kinda sad on all fronts.

And it's not like Rodney King. This guy just got Tazed. That's not being beaten by several people with night sticks.

[smarterthanmost]

The guy was a jerk, he was out of line.

Obviously he doesn't know how to listen.

I thought it was funny as hell hearing him scream while being tased!

Besides, now he is a "viral" Youtube celeb...isn't that what most people want nowadays!

[GroobySteven]

The guy was a jerk, he was out of line.

Obviously he doesn't know how to listen.

I thought it was funny as hell hearing him scream while being tased!

Besides, now he is a "viral" Youtube celeb...isn't that what most people want nowadays!

He was out of line how? Just for being a jerk and asking the questions he gets tased and arrested? Why was he being arrested?
You might want to rethink your moniker on here because unless it's self-effacing humour, your proving otherwise.

[TJT]

I expected to hear "Doood,your killin' my buzz!"

When and where I grew up the cops were gonna kick your ass if you got arrested or even stopped for questioning if you didn't look "right". It was part of the deal.

Hell if they arrested you,you were gonna get robbed too. "What money? He didn't have any money on him when we brought him in." Some of the biggest damned crooks I ever knew wore a badge.

[Legend]

Why was he being arrested?


1.disturbing the peace
2.resisting an officer

Your not use to laws down here so for you do give an bias opinion about this matter is somewhat questionable.

[Realgirls4me]

Legend's here! Did someone pull the Cartoon Network off the air for a period of time?

[Quinn]

I don't know how resisting arrest works down there in europe. . . .


Your not use to laws down here. . . .

Say, Legend, you don't happen to have a map or a compass in your possession, do you?

-Quinn

[T5000]

I don't know how resisting arrest works down there in europe. . . .


Your not use to laws down here. . . .

Say, Legend, you don't happen to have a map or a compass in your possession, do you?

-Quinn

Right now, he may be busy checking on the responses from his latest thread: http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=25016Come on man, leave Legend alone. What has he done to you?

[Quinn]

Damn it, braveman, you beat me to it on the Geography 101 response. Villanous bastard. :lol:

-Quinn

[T5000]

Damn it, braveman, you beat me to it on the Geography 101 response. Villanous bastard. :lol:

-Quinn

Sorry man. I finally cracked. I could not take any more of his "wisdom." I had to point out the obvious.But you two were getting along so good. What happened?

[Legend]

Geography error on my part,but my point remains the same in this matter if you break a law you suffer the consequences.

[double_cheese13]

He must really like john kerry or hate him. whatever, for him it was really worth it.

I don't think he's runnig right now. So this guy must be hardcore kerry. I still can't decide between Obama or Clinton. But, i might give kerry a chance if he steps back in.

[scroller]

...so if you don't like it, voice your opinion to the higher-ups...

Like at a public political forum? To a well-known politician? Or will I get tased for that? LOL

[Realgirls4me]

Geography error on my part,but my point remains the same in this matter if you break a law you suffer the consequences.

It's like, if you mess with the wrong people, you must suffer the consequences also, right?

Right, dipshit?

[DJ_Asia]

Only in the land of the free and home of the brave.

[Toro]

None of the politics in this thread makes the line "Don't tase me, bro!" any less funny.

[evilash]

Don't John Kerry look like dat painting "the Scream" wearin a JFK wig?...Yeahyah!!!! Or a seahorse wearin a JFK wig!!!

[BBaggins06]

Now we can add police brutality to the list of things that aren't what they used to be. At least they didn't poke him with soft pillows and make him sit in a comfy chair. They'd hang for that if they did. Mahalo

Matt

[GroobySteven]

Why was he being arrested?


1.disturbing the peace
2.resisting an officer

Your not use to laws down here so for you do give an bias opinion about this matter is somewhat questionable.

Oh legend, you really enjoy being a clown. Seriously, have you had your IQ tested because it must be below 75?

1. He stood up at a question and answer - and asked a question. He didn't disrupt. His crime was he was an annoying ass.

2. Resisting an officer? Man, you'd be pulling the switch at the gas chambers with a dumb ass look on your face ... "It's the law, man - I'm not resisting it!".

This tape is irrelevant to where I might live. The fact is, 5 police officers could not subdue the situation and potentially could have started a riot if the rest of the audience didn't have the same sized balls as Kerry.
It was a situation that could easily have gotten out of hand and judging how fast they tasered this guy when 5 people were sitting on him, how long do you think it would take before some semi-trained toy cop shot a protester?

seanchai


seanchai

[Jericho]

For the geographically challenged :wink:

[DJ_Asia]

Hey Legend since when is Freedom of Speech breaking the law...oh wait my bad...it happened in AmeriKKKa where the people allow the government to take away your civil liberties and all you clowns can talk about is how funny the victims "dont tase me bro" comment was.

Theyre laughing at you...amazed at how easy it was!

[chefmike]

Campus cops are nothing more than glorified rent-a-cops, and anyone who has ever dealt with them knows that.

[SarahG]

how long do you think it would take before some semi-trained toy cop shot a protester?

seanchai


seanchai

Sadly I believe that if Kent State happened today, there wouldn't be the same kind of outcry... and the shot students would be blamed for their actions.

[Toro]

Hey Legend since when is Freedom of Speech breaking the law...oh wait my bad...it happened in AmeriKKKa where the people allow the government to take away your civil liberties and all you clowns can talk about is how funny the victims "dont tase me bro" comment was.

Theyre laughing at you...amazed at how easy it was!

What a fucking baby. Get a sense of humor. “Don’t tase me, bro!” Freaking awesome. Possibly even better than Marion Barry’s “The bitch set me up.” The dude ended it with 'bro' - that makes it more than funny.

Talk about clowns living in other countries…. No one really gives a fuck what you think about the US. But as far as civil liberties go, we’ve got it pretty good. Thailand is about as stable as a house of cards in an earthquake. Nice coup last September. Without our Special Ops training your troops in the south, that growing Muslim insurgency would have a field day with you and your 'civil liberties' in no time. And the collapse of the baht 10 years ago destabilized the entire continent of Asia. And you wanna use “Don’t tase me, bro” as a platform to bitch about the US? Get a freaking life.

I don’t make any suggestion about whether the cops were right or wrong, BUT – unless you’ve been in a situation where you’ve been tasked with enforcing security, you have no idea how you’d react when a situation happens. I don’t care for cops, either. But I’m sure they believed they were doing what they had to in order to keep control of a situation that they were nervous about.

I love my country – with all its flaws, fucked up leadership, and everything else. I’ve seen the world – we’ve got it great here. Go take some more pictures and shut the fuck up. Peace.

And NYCe – I’m getting one of those t-shirts.

PS – Did anyone see the South Park with Oprah’s vagina taking hostages? Seanchai’s posts are much easier to enjoy if you read them in the voice of ‘Mingy’ – just throwing that out there.

[TheOne1]

Hey Legend since when is Freedom of Speech breaking the law...oh wait my bad...it happened in AmeriKKKa where the people allow the government to take away your civil liberties and all you clowns can talk about is how funny the victims "dont tase me bro" comment was.

Theyre laughing at you...amazed at how easy it was!

What a fucking baby. Get a sense of humor. “Don’t tase me, bro!” Freaking awesome. Possibly even better than Marion Barry’s “The bitch set me up.” The dude ended it with 'bro' - that makes it more than funny.

Talk about clowns living in other countries…. No one really gives a fuck what you think about the US. But as far as civil liberties go, we’ve got it pretty good. Thailand is about as stable as a house of cards in an earthquake. Nice coup last September. Without our Special Ops training your troops in the south, that growing Muslim insurgency would have a field day with you and your 'civil liberties' in no time. And the collapse of the baht 10 years ago destabilized the entire continent of Asia. And you wanna use “Don’t tase me, bro” as a platform to bitch about the US? Get a freaking life.

I don’t make any suggestion about whether the cops were right or wrong, BUT – unless you’ve been in a situation where you’ve been tasked with enforcing security, you have no idea how you’d react when a situation happens. I don’t care for cops, either. But I’m sure they believed they were doing what they had to in order to keep control of a situation that they were nervous about.

I love my country – with all its flaws, fucked up leadership, and everything else. I’ve seen the world – we’ve got it great here. Go take some more pictures and shut the fuck up. Peace.

And NYCe – I’m getting one of those t-shirts.

PS – Did anyone see the South Park with Oprah’s vagina taking hostages? Seanchai’s posts are much easier to enjoy if you read them in the voice of ‘Mingy’ – just throwing that out there.

:popcorn

[BeardedOne]

This is a late reply:


Even easier would have been for Kerry to answer those questions and let the guy have his 5 min speech, if he was any sort of politician he should heva been able to turn the question around to his advantage.

You can hear Kerry in the background trying, although feebly, to gain control of this situation by repeatedly saying that he was willing to answer the question. Had the goons paid any attention, they would have just let the guy up and let things progress on their merry way.

Personally, Id've shot the bastard on the basic grounds that he was a raving asshole. Tasers are for wimps. And I'm a liberal Democrat. Go figure.

[BeardedOne]

Campus cops are nothing more than glorified rent-a-cops, and anyone who has ever dealt with them knows that.

Mike McQuay, in his 21st Century detective novels, referred to them as "Fancy Dans". Those same novels are where I got the phrase "Working for the highest bidder" in reference to the Brookline Police and other forces of dubious ethics or loyalty.


...how long do you think it would take before some semi-trained toy cop shot a protester?

Sadly, this is something that happens almost daily here in the US. :cry:

[SmashysmashY]

It's very hard to respect people who think that it's ok for what they call "authorities" (police are servants by the way) to go around administering electric shocks to people when they say the "wrong" thing in the "wrong" way.

[SarahG]

It's very hard to respect people who think that it's ok for what they call "authorities" (police are servants by the way) to go around administering electric shocks to people when they say the "wrong" thing in the "wrong" way.

Exactly, that is the danger with having that stuff unchecked.

Actually tasers are fairly mild in terms of what law enforcement has in their vaults for stuff like this, since the early 90s there has been an explosion of "civilian control" tech for military & law enforcement applications.

Numerous media articles have sparatically covered the R&D of one that comes immediately to mind which consisted of a heavily modified humvee that used an old electrical hazard as its operating principle. Basically it uses specific RFs to do the equaivilant of a microwave on everyone (EVERYONE) in an area around the humvee.

They say that its harmless and just causes pain, but, my EE friends have told me it would have serious complications for eyes and reproductive systems.

It's been used in Iraq & Afghanistan as an instrument of war.

It was present in the 2004 RNC in NYC.

[GroobySteven]

I love my country – with all its flaws, fucked up leadership, and everything else. I’ve seen the world – we’ve got it great here. Go take some more pictures and shut the fuck up. Peace.


Then your no different from someone banging a little red book, thumping the koran or giving a salute.

I doubt you've seen the world. If you had, you'd appreciate that for all the good things about the USA it doesn't have it great anymore - it needs to have people question the issues and not follow them like sheep, bro.

Your post is hilariously stereotypical by the way. Keep it up!

[Toro]

I love my country – with all its flaws, fucked up leadership, and everything else. I’ve seen the world – we’ve got it great here. Go take some more pictures and shut the fuck up. Peace.


Then your no different from someone banging a little red book, thumping the koran or giving a salute.

I doubt you've seen the world. If you had, you'd appreciate that for all the good things about the USA it doesn't have it great anymore - it needs to have people question the issues and not follow them like sheep, bro.

Your post is hilariously stereotypical by the way. Keep it up!

"Iz dat you, Mingy?"

[trish]

What a fucking baby. Get a sense of humor. “Don’t tase me, bro!” Freaking awesome. Possibly even better than Marion Barry’s “The bitch set me up.” The dude ended it with 'bro' - that makes it more than funny.

You must be a graduate of the Jerry Lewis School of comedy. :lol:


Talk about clowns living in other countries…. No one really gives a fuck what you think about the US.

No one? Just most of the fucking world! This just shows you’ve got your head up your ass.


I don’t care for cops, either. But I’m sure they believed they were doing what they had to…

What they believed is irrelevant to the issue that what they did was idiotic, wrong and corrosive of our civil liberties.


I love my country – with all its flaws, fucked up leadership, and everything else. I’ve seen the world – we’ve got it great here. Go take some more pictures and shut the fuck up. Peace.

I’ve seen quite a bit of the world. I’ve lived or have had extended stays in Kenya, Peru, Ecuador, France, Italy, and Spain. I can say with certainty that the U.S. is neither the best nor the worst place to live. We've got some really nice theme parks. But we also have a lot of shallow poorly educated idiots as well. And our infant mortality rate is way too high for a nation that's boasts its the best in the world. Nevertheless, I’m an American. No one tells me to shut the fuck up. I love my country. I’m sick when it embarrasses itself. I’m alarmed when our own actions endanger and erode our freedoms.

[El Nino]

Props to Seanchai. His comments are rationally sound and well thought out. America is in fact morphing into a fascist state at an exponential rate. Look up fascism, please

[DJ_Asia]

Hey Legend since when is Freedom of Speech breaking the law...oh wait my bad...it happened in AmeriKKKa where the people allow the government to take away your civil liberties and all you clowns can talk about is how funny the victims "dont tase me bro" comment was.

Theyre laughing at you...amazed at how easy it was!

What a fucking baby. Get a sense of humor. “Don’t tase me, bro!” Freaking awesome. Possibly even better than Marion Barry’s “The bitch set me up.” The dude ended it with 'bro' - that makes it more than funny.

Talk about clowns living in other countries…. No one really gives a fuck what you think about the US. But as far as civil liberties go, we’ve got it pretty good. Thailand is about as stable as a house of cards in an earthquake. Nice coup last September. Without our Special Ops training your troops in the south, that growing Muslim insurgency would have a field day with you and your 'civil liberties' in no time. And the collapse of the baht 10 years ago destabilized the entire continent of Asia. And you wanna use “Don’t tase me, bro” as a platform to bitch about the US? Get a freaking life.

I don’t make any suggestion about whether the cops were right or wrong, BUT – unless you’ve been in a situation where you’ve been tasked with enforcing security, you have no idea how you’d react when a situation happens. I don’t care for cops, either. But I’m sure they believed they were doing what they had to in order to keep control of a situation that they were nervous about.

I love my country – with all its flaws, fucked up leadership, and everything else. I’ve seen the world – we’ve got it great here. Go take some more pictures and shut the fuck up. Peace.

And NYCe – I’m getting one of those t-shirts.

PS – Did anyone see the South Park with Oprah’s vagina taking hostages? Seanchai’s posts are much easier to enjoy if you read them in the voice of ‘Mingy’ – just throwing that out there.

Youre a classic example of the type of american that the world laughs at and your government counts on.No matter what they do to you all you can say is "USA is the best"

Quite to the contrary bozo...err toro...many give a fuck what I think.I am a well travelled highly intelligent American who has travelled the world and been shown first hand that the US isnt what it used to be.And if you need to use Thailand to compare the current state of AmeriKKKa to then yall are in worse shape then I thought!

It amuses me when people like you make posts on topics that obviously are ignorant to the facts.Lemme guess youve never left the US and your idea of culture is a weekend in Vegas.

[Realgirls4me]

Wow, have there been some homeruns hit here today. Props to Sean, DJ, El Nino, and particularly Trish (I'm in love -- you go, girl!).


I’ve seen quite a bit of the world. I’ve lived or have had extended stays in Kenya, Peru, Ecuador, France, Italy, and Spain. I can say with certainty that the U.S. is neither the best nor the worst place to live. We've got some really nice theme parks. But we also have a lot of shallow poorly educated idiots as well. And our infant mortality rate is way too high for a nation that's boasts its the best in the world. Nevertheless, I’m an American. No one tells me to shut the fuck up. I love my country. I’m sick when it embarrasses itself. I’m alarmed when our own actions endanger and erode our freedoms.

There is nothing more patriotic -- particularly as a citizen of a country spawned on dissent -- than to constructively criticize it when it goes askew. You guys rock!


:)

[south ov da border]

so has anyone watched the video of what happened before the incident?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IATPoHdpak0

...

[Felicia Katt]

This whole situation is being blown out of proportion,the guy was a loudmouth jerk who tried to make a scene,he then resisted arrest and got owned.

"bro don't tase me"

Ok then stop fucking resisting the police.
Where would this country be if no one ever tried to question authority, made scenes or resisted arrest?

FK

[Legend]

This whole situation is being blown out of proportion,the guy was a loudmouth jerk who tried to make a scene,he then resisted arrest and got owned.

"bro don't tase me"

Ok then stop fucking resisting the police.
Where would this country be if no one ever tried to question authority, made scenes or resisted arrest?

FK


I see your point but in this day and age its better to be safe then sorry when your dealing with any kind of authority,im in no way saying they had a right to make this guy shut up but as soon as he tried to resist being arrested they had every right to use force,people have been shot dead for less.

[GroobySteven]

I see your point but in this day and age its better to be safe then sorry when your dealing with any kind of authority,im in no way saying they had a right to make this guy shut up but as soon as he tried to resist being arrested they had every right to use force,people have been shot dead for less.

Gosh you just get better and better. Yes people have been shot dead for less - and this guy got tased for nothing. It could have been dealt with before. You say "m in no way saying they had a right to make this guy shut up" but you condone their right to use force when arresting him.

There would have been security checks before the talk - and he was pinned to the ground by a handful of plods.

You really need to think before you garble on.

[Legend]

I see your point but in this day and age its better to be safe then sorry when your dealing with any kind of authority,im in no way saying they had a right to make this guy shut up but as soon as he tried to resist being arrested they had every right to use force,people have been shot dead for less.

"in this day and age its better to be safe then sorry when your dealing with any kind of authority." You are kidding right? You are saying "don't rock the boat," "don't complain," "keep quiet." It's that kind of thinking that turns free men and women into slaves.

No,i'm saying don't resist arrest or you won't get tased,if the guy went in a peaceful manner he wouldn't have got tased dude.

[GroobySteven]

No,i'm saying don't resist arrest or you won't get tased,if the guy went in a peaceful manner he wouldn't have got tased dude.

You are not French, per chance? Or Belgian?

[mofungo]

No,i'm saying don't resist arrest [and] you won't get tased,if the guy went in a peaceful manner he wouldn't have got tased dude.

Legend, your comment implies the police were within their rights to arrest the guy; but they weren't. He was exercising his right to freedom of speech.

Let's remember that police are not knowledgeable in legal matters, and they are most certainly not supporters of human rights; they are hired goons who do exactly as their superiors tell them. The arrest and assault of this man was a violation of human rights. Therefore, he had a right to protest his arrest verbally. Exactly what law did he break to receive such treatment?

[SarahG]

No,i'm saying don't resist arrest [and] you won't get tased,if the guy went in a peaceful manner he wouldn't have got tased dude.

Legend, your comment implies the police were within their rights to arrest the guy; but they weren't. He was exercising his right to freedom of speech.

Let's remember that police are not knowledgeable in legal matters, and they are most certainly not supporters of human rights; they are hired goons who do exactly as their superiors tell them. The arrest and assault of this man was a violation of human rights. Therefore, he had a right to protest his arrest verbally. Exactly what law did he break to receive such treatment?

Expanding on that, it is a right to be silent- it is not a REQUIREMENT.

The whole "or it could be used against you in a court of law" clause specifically dictates that people can talk before, during and after being arrested. If the cops didn't like that he wouldn't shut up, too fucking bad- it shouldn't have mattered.

The law doesn't dictate he be polite, cussing at a cop for giving you a ticket or arresting you does not translate into "resisting arrest" but it appears that many cops in many districts in the US will tack on "resisting arrest" for anyone they happen to dislike, regardless of specifics, civil liberties, or logic.

[BlackAdder]

Watched the video just now.... CLEARLY excessive use of force Legend...omg, cmon man?? You watched that video and thought the cops were just doing there job???? There wasnt any reason to arrest the guy in the first place! God forbid our politicians are asked some disruptive questions!!!

All those police will be in some serious trouble. Oh wait, thats right, they will be let off with "warnings" because they are the police.

[Toro]

so has anyone watched the video of what happened before the incident?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IATPoHdpak0

...

This is the first time I've seen this completely. In my opinion, he was not out of line when the cops started taking him away. And I don't think they should have tased him. HOWEVER... my post was simply on how funny I think it is that he said "Don't tase me, bro!"...not on free speech, politics, or anything else. People are so freaking uptight.

The guy is a troublemaker, though. And after reading about some of his other past pranks (including one on a "man in drag", according to the news), it's not surprising that he would have ended up getting beat up or tased by someone at some point.

[Toro]

I doubt you've seen the world.

I doubt you know what you're talking about. (note the extra pages that had to be added to the middle).

Now go back to your website.

[Legend]

People with zero experince with the authorities down here shouldn't talk like its a piece of cake dealing with them,what you see on tv doesn't dictate how it is in the real world.

[T5000]

People with zero experince with the authorities down here shouldn't talk like its a piece of cake dealing with them,what you see on tv doesn't dictate how it is in the real world.That includes you legend, so
leave. Also what you read on internet forums doesn't dictate what the real world is like.

[El Nino]

What happened to him was unconstitutional. This can not be argued... PERIOD. See: 1rst amendment, of the U.S. Constitution.

[BeardedOne]

OK, I retract my statement that I would have shot this guy because he was an asshole, but I most surely would have slapped him a couple of times.

I just watched the second vid, taken at the microphone, and see that the security guards (NOTE: Campus security, NOT police) are starting to give him grief even before he ramps up.

Someone mentioned earlier that there would have been security checks/scrutiny of anyone that entered the auditorium (Hell, I found out that my credit file had been pinged before I drove for Weinberger and Kissinger, so these guys are surprisingly thorough). As this guy has a history of poking authority in the eye, it's a sure bet they were watching him and waiting for a moment to intervene. I'd lay money on the revelation that there was a grudge match between the campus goons and this guy and that they saw this as a golden opportunity to shock some sense into him on their terms.

Again, it is clear that Kerry was more than willing to hear the guy out (Though he wasn't very firm on the matter), but the security people had other matters on their mind and clearly ignored him.

When the laundry is on the line, this will wash out as a pissing contest between campus security and the rabblerouser.

[biguy4tvtscd]

Much ado about nothing.

Given that he's apparently known by campus security for other antics, and given this smarmy attitude while one officer is trying to escort him from the building, I'd say he got what was coming to him.

You mess with the bull, you get the horns.

With freedom of speech comes the responsibility to not be an annoying, whining, troublemaking fuckhead.

I can only imagine how many of you would be castigating the security personnel if someone in the audience, or even Kerry had gotten hurt from this doofus.

[NewYorker]

With freedom of speech comes the responsibility to not be an annoying, whining, troublemaking fuckhead.

Actually the whole point of the first admendment is that you can be an annoying, whining, troublemaking fuckhead without being perscuted for it.

[Toro]

I think Jon Stewart put it best on The Daily Show the other night:
"An unfortunate combination of police over-reaction and what appears to be student douche-baggery."

[biguy4tvtscd]

I can only imagine how many of you would be castigating the security personnel if someone in the audience, or even Kerry had gotten hurt from this doofus.

From what I see, on the video, he posed no threat to Kerry. What? Do you think he was going to throw the book he was holding towards Kerry's direction?

It's called a hypothetical question. You have to use your imagination.

Pretend his book had a shiv hidden inside, and just run with it.

[biguy4tvtscd]

With freedom of speech comes the responsibility to not be an annoying, whining, troublemaking fuckhead.

Actually the whole point of the first admendment is that you can be an annoying, whining, troublemaking fuckhead without being perscuted for it.
You're absolutely correct. But this guy was clearly not being arrested for what he said.

He was being arrested because he resisted the officers as they were attempting to escort him from the building.

This is not a freedom of speech issue.

[trish]

That's a very pretty passport, Toro. But it doesn't answer any of the substantive points put to you by the posters to this thread.

[Toro]

That's a very pretty passport, Toro. But it doesn't answer any of the substantive points put to you by the posters to this thread.

I have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, the only reason I posted this thread is because "Don't tase me, bro" is a hilarious line. Instant cult status. Second of all, I stated that I think the cops overreacted.

What points do you want me to qualify? Or are you just looking to pick a fight?

[GroobySteven]

People with zero experince with the authorities down here shouldn't talk like its a piece of cake dealing with them,what you see on tv doesn't dictate how it is in the real world.


Shut up fool.

[GroobySteven]

I doubt you've seen the world.

I doubt you know what you're talking about. (note the extra pages that had to be added to the middle).

Now go back to your website.

Travelling the world is not the same as seeing the world, something I still doubt you've done - although I do congratulate you on being one of the few with a passport.

I never left the website.

[Legend]

People with zero experince with the authorities down here shouldn't talk like its a piece of cake dealing with them,what you see on tv doesn't dictate how it is in the real world.


Shut up fool.

Whatever photoboy,just take your pictures and shut your mouth about shit you haven't experienced.Only thing your doing is using this incident to spew your ideological views.

[GroobySteven]

People with zero experince with the authorities down here shouldn't talk like its a piece of cake dealing with them,what you see on tv doesn't dictate how it is in the real world.


Shut up fool.

Whatever photoboy,just take your pictures and shut your mouth about shit you haven't experienced.Only thing you doing is using this incident to spew your ideological views.

I've experienced more than you could ever from your trailer. I've seen far more of your own country and probably even your own state than you have. Just what have you ever experienced Legend - apart from a trip to Walmart. I really pity your ignorance in life but thankfully (for you) your intelligence is too low to understand that.

No need to get upset Legend.

[GroobySteven]

... about shit you haven't experienced.Only thing your doing is using this incident to spew your ideological views.

PS I've experienced being in discussions at college, which is where this took place ... have you?

[Legend]

People with zero experince with the authorities down here shouldn't talk like its a piece of cake dealing with them,what you see on tv doesn't dictate how it is in the real world.


Shut up fool.

Whatever photoboy,just take your pictures and shut your mouth about shit you haven't experienced.Only thing you doing is using this incident to spew your ideological views.

I've experienced more than you could ever from your trailer. I've seen far more of your own country and probably even your own state than you have. Just what have you ever experienced Legend - apart from a trip to Walmart. I really pity your ignorance in life but thankfully (for you) your intelligence is too low to understand that.

No need to get upset Legend.

I'm not upset about anything but its typical for guys like you to personally attack someone if they don't agree with your views,i've had to struggle to survive unlike you who only has the luxury of just snapping a photo to make a living.

[GroobySteven]

I'm not upset about anything but its typical for guys like you to personally attack someone if they don't agree with your views,i've had to struggle to survive unlike you who only has the luxury of just snapping a photo to make a living.


Hahahahaha - sure you've had to struggle to survive and it's all down to guys like me right?
Fuck off and get a grip.

It's not about agreeing with views - you state just downright stupid and unfounded comments. Perhaps if you took more time to educate yourself (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/ is a good start - cnn.com is ok at a push) you'd think about the implications of making those stupid statements.

You seem to think I'm having a go at law enforcement in general? I'm not and the plods I know in the US and Europe would view this situation as potentially becoming dangerous because of their actions - not because of that individual being a dildo. It's laughable that people like you would defend them.

Do I think "Don't tase me, bro" is a funny line. Yes - specifically because he'd used the word "bro" but if this had turned out nastier and one of those toy cops had been hurt - or they'd instigated a riot and shot a student ... then it would have been all the more poignant.

seanchai

[El Nino]

Try www.infowars.com "because there is a war on, for your mind".

[GroobySteven]

Try www.infowars.com "because there is a war on, for your mind".

Nice link, this livened up my day.

http://www.infowars.com/images2/cartoons/nosferrudy_dees.jpg

[tsafficianado]

you blowhards are a broken fucking record.
if you think cops are all thugs, bent on brutality, untrained, ignorant of the law, eager to beat innocent people, and all the usual totally unfounded and absurd rhetoric, here's a suggestion for ya....shut the fuck up and put on a badge and fix it. we have mr know-it-all chai saying the current idiot-of-the-month was being tasered for asking a question....what a moron....he was tasered for resisting arrest. more blowhards claiming he was in custody....in custody means cuffed, and he wasn't cuffed. he was resisting arrest and jeopardizing officers and the public. what, you think these officers should risk injury into perpetuity until the guy falls asleep?
i came out of retirement and took a consultancy in the department in my community because i believe in the rights of people who want to obey the law and pursue a life for themselves and their family without undue risk to their health and welfare and property. the officers in that department, of which i have knowledge as opposed to pulling bs out of my ass per smashyduh and that ilk, are almost all college graduates and in many cases hold masters degrees.....they are trained a MINIMUM of 600 hours before they ever go into service.....they are trained a MINIMUM of 100 hours EVERY year.....they are subject to skills tests including first aid and cpr....their actions are controlled by federal and state and local laws and regulations, by federal and state and local and departmental regulations, their hands are tied by over-zealous advocates of constitutional tedium, they are subject to frivolous lawsuits for everything they do, half of the people they are trying to protect hate them for the same moronic and misguided speculation you folks espouse....they work LONG shifts, nights, every other weekend, holidays, they are subject to call-in, they are subject to injury and are injured on a regular bases (this is a small department and in the last year one has received permanent brain damage, one has been hospitalized after being hit by a pissed off driver in a wreck-generated jam, one has been in surgery and rehabilitation for months for a knee injury he received trying to bring down a perp who was collared for aggravated assault because they AREN"T allowed to use tasers because libs and the liberal press piss and moan about them so much), when the shit hits the fan and everyone else is fleeing in terror they have to go in (remember 9-11-01 anyone?), and the officers in this department care about their work and the people they are trying to protect. SWAT and bomb-squad officers know that every time they go into a hot zone they may not come back....would YOU do that? do the calculations.....law enforcement officers in the state of georgia, for example, ALL OF THEM COMBINED, make what the starting lineup of the new york yankees make, without a starting pitcher. go out on a ride-along with your local officers, every department allows them, go out some friday night and watch your 'partner' on traffic stops or warrant stops approaching a vehicle alone, in the dark, on virtually abandoned streets, a vehicle that is occupied by two persons who appear by all accounts as thugs, and imagine yourself doing that hundreds of times a year for $40,000. go into the projects at night on a domestic call into a parking lot crawling with perps and crack heads and going into the midst of an alcoholic, drug frenzied combat between two idiots who may have weapons or immediate access to them. read the fbi reports on the interviews of gang members who have murdered cops because that gives them the most props.
i'm sure we can all agree there are bad cops. i'm sure we can all agree as well that there are bad catholic priests, bad doctors, corrupt accountants and ceos, pro sports celebrities who get off on brutalizing dogs, crooked politicians, and whether you want to admit it or not there are journalists who make shit up or color it because they think that's their job.
perhaps someday four perps will do a home invasion on you one night as happened recently in our town, accost your wife or mother and get pissed off when they discover she doesn't have the $15,000 someone told you she had in her house, and shoot her twice with a .44 magnum in front of your 7 year old daughter. or maybe kidnap your 12 year-old neice and take her to a crack house and rape her a few times and kill her. or lurk in the trendy district on random nights and bash you in the head with a brick to steal whatever cash you may have on you. perhpas someday you or someone you love will be the victim of a violent crime and then maybe your perspective on the police will change.
speaking out against what's wrong with america is certainly the way to improve it, you're entitled. perhaps it would be more effective if you put your SKIN on the line. apparently you libs think the founding fathers wrote the constitution exclusively to protect the rights of criminals and didn't give a rat's ass about the rights of the 95% of the population that wants to do right.

[GroobySteven]

While I respect the fact you took the time to write a long diatribe tsafficianado about how hard it is to be police, under-paid and how they protect us from violent crime ... your message has completely nothing to do with this situation.

Do you honestly agree that those police were trained to tase someone when he was already restrained?

Is that the action you would have taken?

Forget the point they were arresting him for nothing (he was resisting arrest for being arrested for what crime?) - forget he was a loud mouth or that they could have let him speak.

Do you not think it's actions like this that create the problem and that this could have created a potentially more dangerous situation for the police and the audience?

I truly hope that no crime like that happens to anyone - never mind those just close to me - this is what the police should be focussing on and not something stupid like this situation. Do I have a problem with tasers or police carrying guns in the US? Absolutely not. Do I have a problem with them being used un-necessarily. Asbolutely.

seanchai

[hondarobot]

That was a long, difficult post to read, but I agree with it. I work next door to a police station and talk to the guys frequently when I'm out smoking a cigarette. Honestly, I don't agree with most socially conservative thinking, which is probably pretty common among police, but I do respect cops and their job. They do things I couldn't do. Somebody has to do it.

That's not to say they don't get out of line on occasion. Honestly, I don't think zapping a loony prankster is all that bad. It got him made on Youtube.

[Felicia Katt]

The Constitution protects everyone from abuses by the Government. It certainly guarantees every one some basic rights that go to the core of our democracy:. the rights to speak freely, to assemble peaceably, and to petition the government for redress of wrongs. None of those rights are vindicated when at a public forum, someone is first silenced, then forcibly subdued, then arrested, then tased for resisting arrest, all because the government didn't like the question that was being asked, or the person asking it, or how it was being asked.

The police are supposed to keep the peace, but that doesn't mean they are supposed to silence dissent. They stepped over the line, violating other fundamental rights not to be arrested without probable cause, or to be treated cruelly or inhumanely.

Polite well mannered speech doesn't really need protection, as it is inoffensive. But it can also be ineffective. The framers knew that robust, raunchy, in your face speech, which can be a real catalyst for action, if not change, was essential. Its a good thing its written down in the Bill of Rights, because otherwise, a lot of people would forget that. Some of us might still be at the back of the bus, or in a fire fight in Vietnam if better safe than sorry was the only rghteous way to deal with authority.

FK

[hondarobot]

For crying out loud. . .

The guy was pulling a viral prank, things actually worked out better then he planned. That's all there was to it. It wasn't that big of a deal.

Campus cops over reacted. Bonus for prankster.

The whole thing is stupid.

[tsafficianado]

sean, i wasn't there but my observation from the video is that the officers attempted to peacefully remove the moron because he was being verbally disruptive (and i assume that was their right and their responsibility), at which juncture he became physically disruptive which is a crime and they attempted to place him under arrest. he then resisted arrest and they escalated their tactics as all sworn officers are trained to do. he was not restrained, i.e. he was not cuffed. the fact that he was out-numbered does not of itself imply restraint.
i can't say if that is the strategy i would have employed because i wasn't there, but i doubt it. i am not sworn, i am a consultant and instructor, so i have no authority to use arms in the absence of lethal threat. i could certainly have restrained the individual without the use of arms, but my training is more extensive than the norm for officers.
this incident is not dissimilar to the other current buzz about the autistic kid who was tasered as he frolicked in traffic. it's easy to second-guess police action based on partial information. they are not and never will be perfect, but they should be thoroughly trained and held to a reasonable (reasonably high) standard of reaction. as far as the danger to the crowd, try this.....perhaps these officers did NOT know this individual, in which case one of their considerations in a struggle in a crowd has to be the possibility that the perpetrator will manage to gain control of one of their handguns and start spraying the room with rounds - officers are trained in weapon retention, but it is still a very real possibility.
i don't like people taking shots at cops when they don't have the nuts to put their own skin in the game. this idiot smashyduh quoted on another thread that the ranks of le officers in the us has tripled in the last 15 years which is absolute nonsense. others pull nonsense out of their ass and paint all officers with the 'dumbass, gestapo, untrained' brush....the officers i know are in general well-trained, dedicated and proud to serve the public. departments across the country are severely understaffed and as a result they will have no choice but to accept a lower standard of recruit. perhaps some of the knowledgeable and opinionated posters on this forum will heed the call and fill the ranks? i can make more in a day trading stocks than i can make in a month at the department, but i care about the community where i live and the safety of the citizens therein and my choice is to be part of the solution rather than sitting in the cheap seats and spouting off about things of which i have no knowledge.

[TheOne1]

if you ignore the fact that this guy was trying to have sex with a minor. (since he is innocent till proven..).. this is what they are trained to do.... the press wasnt in an uproar over this...eh? http://youtube.com/watch?v=M7Qog10mZ5Q

[trish]

Violence in the projects, on urban streets, on the road, perpetrated by crack-heads and thugs and idiots overcome by road-rage doesn’t in anyway justify the use of violence, even by police, in the lecture hall against those exercising their rights to free speech. It doesn’t take a masters degree to know that screaming, “What did I do? What have I done?” doesn’t constitute resisting arrest. Look, not all speeders are scum, and officers who sometimes make bad decisions aren’t all brutish pigs. It is sometimes more appropriate to judge the action rather than the actor. The action here quite clearly involves an excessive use of force.

[TheOne1]

Violence in the projects, on urban streets, on the road, perpetrated by crack-heads and thugs and idiots overcome by road-rage doesn’t in anyway justify the use of violence, even by police, in the lecture hall against those exercising their rights to free speech. It doesn’t take a masters degree to know that screaming, “What did I do? What have I done?” doesn’t constitute resisting arrest. Look, not all speeders are scum, and officers who sometimes make bad decisions aren’t all brutish pigs. It is sometimes more appropriate to judge the action rather than the actor. The action here quite clearly involves an excessive use of force.

if you don't even know the stages of use of force, how can you define excessive use of force?

[TheOne1]

if you ignore the fact that this guy was trying to have sex with a minor. (since he is innocent till proven..).. this is what they are trained to do.... the press wasnt in an uproar over this...eh? http://youtube.com/watch?v=M7Qog10mZ5Q

Was the student at the U. of FL. a suspect in a felony? you are mixing your apples with oranges.

as soon as you resist officer control (even if you feel you shouldn't be arrested) and push against him/her to get free, that is agg. assault on a cop

[Toro]

Youre a classic example of the type of american that the world laughs at and your government counts on.No matter what they do to you all you can say is "USA is the best"

Quite to the contrary bozo...err toro...many give a fuck what I think.I am a well travelled highly intelligent American who has travelled the world and been shown first hand that the US isnt what it used to be.And if you need to use Thailand to compare the current state of AmeriKKKa to then yall are in worse shape then I thought!

It amuses me when people like you make posts on topics that obviously are ignorant to the facts.Lemme guess youve never left the US and your idea of culture is a weekend in Vegas.

You are a self-deprecating crybaby. You want to bitch about how bad things are here? What have you done to give back for the freedom you enjoy?

I have served my country with distinction, have traveled the world, dined with major politicians, and I'm only in my 30s. What the fuck have you really done? And I mean besides having Thai ladyboys shoot loads on your face (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=25027&start=10), which, for someone living in a country with one of the world’s highest AIDS rates, doesn’t jive with your “I’m a highly intelligent person” claim. It’s so easy for you to complain about what freedoms you don’t have, but what have you done to earn the freedoms you do have? Get a fucking clue.

Go to Havana, or Caracas, or Tiananmen Square and start shouting about democracy – and then send me a message from jail letting me know how bad the US is. Or if those places are too extreme, be in the wrong place at the wrong time in the British Virgin Islands, or Nicaragua, or Singapore, or .... See how far the civil liberties in other countries get you. Get your head out of your sad, the-world-is-against-me ass and get a real education, douche bag.

People like you make the majority of people here sick. OH – and by the way, those of us who ‘salute’ – as Seanchai put it – are the reason why you and the other whiners have the freedom to complain openly about what you do and don’t like. Once a week, we used to run through a city where we were based and while some people would occasionally clap as we ran by, some people would actually spit on us from time to time – and as much as we wanted to kill those freaks, we did nothing. Why? Because it’s that kind of fucking freedom that we were tasked with defending; the same kind of freedom that allows you to bitch about the country that defends your ass.

By the way, I don't like our president and I am not saying that a person has to perform a civil service to be a good citizen. But if you haven’t – don’t fucking complain about life in a democratic country, whatever it is, because all you’re doing is sucking off the freedom that others are helping you keep. You are a dime a dozen – complaining about what you don’t have, and not realizing how much you really do have. And you think I am the ugly American? You’re the one who really looks like a fool to all but the ones who are truly uninformed. Go hide in a bush and wait for us to run by again.

[trish]

Oh so that’s what you learn at the police academy…the m stages of force, the n rules of proper respect etc. etc. It doesn’t take a great deal of study or genius to see that when five people are sitting on a man, they don’t need to taser him as well. :roll:

[TheOne1]

Oh so that’s what you learn at the police academy…the m stages of force, the n rules of proper respect etc. etc. It doesn’t take a great deal of study or genius to see that when five people are sitting on a man, they don’t need to taser him as well. :roll:

ignorance of the law is no excuse...

[El Nino]

Well, even though the kid was somewhat annoying, if you people do the actual research, John Kerry and George W. Bush were in fact part of the same secret society at Yale University in New Haven, Ct. called Skull & Bones. I will not explain here why this is significant, but it SURELY is. Look it up on google or something. The kid asked Kerry why he withdrew or seceded (sp) from the presidency before all the votes were in and theorized that it may have been an adherence to a inside plan set forth by the laws and orders of skull & bones. A valid question due to the factual history and realtion of the two blu-blood elitists. These are sensitive but also imperative questions that the bought and sold mainstream media won't ask. That is your job people. Stop paying so much fucking attention to reality TV and thye NFL and learn about your Constition, the histories of governments, corruptions of governments and true patriotism. Oh yeah, by the way, who's really taking away your god given freedoms??? You know who people...

On a side note, police brutality does really not seem to be an isolated phenomena. To think so is an unintegrated and naive point of view. Let us not let the umbrella of tyranny open up over our great country; speak your truths and don't let the U.S. Constitution be used as a piece of toilet paper by these Neocons and impotent democrats. The government should fear the people, not people fear the government. righteousness will ALWAYS triumph, so speak and act respectively

[trish]

It’s so easy for you to complain about what freedoms you don’t have, but what have you done to earn the freedoms you do have? Get a fucking clue.

gee, where in the constitution does it say we have to earn our freedoms. i thought it said something about...what was it...inalienable rights?


Go to Havana, or Caracas, or Tiananmen Square and start shouting about democracy

try attending a presidential speech wearing a T-shirt that says, "peace". Then send me a message from jail telling about what wonderful freedoms we have here in the US.


People like you make the majority of people here sick.

ditto


...are the reason why you and the other whiners have the freedom to complain openly about what you do and don’t like.

don't flatter yourself. we have those freedoms because enlightenment intellectuals were creative enough and brave enough to put them into print. the rest was inevitable.

[evilash]

Hindsight is always 20/20
its easy to criticize the situation when you watchen what already happened.
Its like when people are watching sports and they yellen at there team sayin yo that was a dumb move i woulda done this instead. Its easy to say what you woulda done cause you not in the game you jus watchin.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Like i said hindsight always 20/20

[Toro]

It’s so easy for you to complain about what freedoms you don’t have, but what have you done to earn the freedoms you do have? Get a fucking clue.

gee, where in the constitution does it say we have to earn our freedoms. i thought it said something about...what was it...inalienable rights?


Go to Havana, or Caracas, or Tiananmen Square and start shouting about democracy

try attending a presidential speech wearing a T-shirt that says, "peace". Then send me a message from jail telling about what wonderful freedoms we have here in the US.


People like you make the majority of people here sick.

ditto


...are the reason why you and the other whiners have the freedom to complain openly about what you do and don’t like.

don't flatter yourself. we have those freedoms because enlightenment intellectuals were creative enough and brave enough to put them into print. the rest was inevitable.

You're an idiot.

[Trans Mission]

Personally, I would've busted the fuck in the neck with an open-handed chop, just for being a fuck. He would've hurt worse than the taser and my foes on the left could hate me more than they do already.

Freedom of speech comes with responsibilities. This kid toed a line in the sand, crossed it and realized repercussions ensue.

He wasn't the stalwart his romantic inclinations had led him to believe. He was a coward/bitch that groveled from the implications he garnered.

Good riddance to this weakling exploiting an inherent freedom given to him.

[evilash]

Hindsight is always 20/20
its easy to criticize the situation when you watchen what already happened.


Yes, so let's wait until the Fla. authorities investigate what happened and come out with their report. My guess is they will conclude that the UFL police used excessive force.

The student will sue and reach an out-of-court settlement with the UFL. Probalby around 5 figures. The UFL will agree to retrain its police on the proper use of force on campus.Like i said we weren't there. Easy to criticize.

[evilash]

Hindsight is always 20/20
its easy to criticize the situation when you watchen what already happened.


Yes, so let's wait until the Fla. authorities investigate what happened and come out with their report. My guess is they will conclude that the UFL police used excessive force.

The student will sue and reach an out-of-court settlement with the UFL. Probalby around 5 figures. The UFL will agree to retrain its police on the proper use of force on campus.Like i said we weren't there. Easy to criticize.20/20 Hindsight.


Um, Like I said, there will be an investigation. Noboby is criticizing anyone.

[El Nino]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/04/politics/main604163.shtml

CBS news, Bush, Kerry cousins. They cut his mic and arrested him as soon as he mentioned this.

By the way, I have nothing against police officers, in fact its a fucking awesome job and it feels good to serve. However, they are sworn to uphold the One document that governs the whole Republic and protect civilians from intrusion and harm. The police force is, according to the constitution, a civilian department and is to be seperate from military affairs. This is called the Posse Comitatus Act. Furthermore it is Unconstitutional to have military forces operating on our own streets. We already have seen what happens when police forces become militarized and used in such a manner,,, its called the GESTAPO and was the Brainchild of Hitler during the rise of the 3rd Reich. All I am saying here is it is our job to keep the Country in Check (however small an incident of injustice may seem) anybody who disagrees is ludicrously ignorant. George Orwell is turning over in his grave.

Seanchai, I am glad you liked the link. You can stream the radio program all day, its kick ass and based on facts. yeah, that "Ghouliani" picture is sweet. Did you know that Guliani had 911 victims reamins used as pot-hole filler for the streets of NYC? True story, that guy is no hero.

[Legend]

John Kerry vs. Andrew Meyer: Taser Student Cries for Attention
By Lynda Johnson


John Kerry was speaking but Andrew Meyer wouldn't shut up. At an event on the University of Florida campus the 21-year old student was trying to tout a book by Greg Palast that is popular among the conspiracy crowd that is still smarting over the American elections in 2000, 2002 and 2004. They believe they were robbed, millions of votes were not counted and only they are wise enough to see this. The kid was a riot dropping F-Bombs and waving Palast's book.

It was bound to end badly even though he began polite enough. he said, "I first of all want to thank you for your time. You've spent a lot of time talking to us today and want to thank you for being open and honest. You recommended a book to us earlier, and I wanted to recommend a book to you as well. It's called "Armed Mad House" by Greg Palast. Kerry said that he had read it."

***

Andrew Meyer continued "And he says you WON the 2004 election. Isn't that amazing?! Isn't that amazing, you won in 2004. In fact, there were multiple reports on the day of the election of disenfranchisement of black voters in Florida and Ohio..." A woman next to mic tells him: "Ask you question or..."

Kid: "I'll ask my question, thank you very much I'll ask my question, I'm going to preface it. He's been talking for 2 hours, I think I can have two minutes…I'll ask my question, I'm going to inform people and then I'll ask my question. There are multiple reports of disenfranchisement among black voters on the day of the election in 2004. There was also voting machines, electronic voting machines in Volusia County Florida that counted backwards. So amidst all of these reports, of phony, bogus stuff going on, how could you concede the election on the day? How could you concede the 2004 election on the day? In this book it says that there were 5 million votes that were suppressed for you in the election. Didn't you want to be president?"

***

He continued his filibuster: "I'm not even done yet. I have two more questions. If you were so against Iran, how come you aren't saying "let's impeach Bush now?" Impeach Bush now before he can invade Iran. Why don't we impeach him? Impeach Bush? Clinton was impeached for what, a blow job? Why don't we impeach Bush? Also, are you a member of the Skull and Bones in college with Bush? Were you in the same secret society as Bush (mic cuts out) were you in Skull and thank you for cutting off my mic…"

The cops stepped in and told the long winded conspiracy kid to take his wild theories to the street. He elected to stay and fight. He then cried like a baby screaming for help and desperately seeking students to come to his aid. None did - and neither did John Kerry. It was this wild eyed student vs. six cops. He lost. For his trouble he was tasered and handcuffed and arrested.

***

All off the fringe nuts were dealt a pretty bad blow when it was discovered that he had his own camera filming - it was obvious that he was ready for his YouTube moment in the sun. He got it - trouble is, now everyone other than his pals that are still stuck in 2000 and 2004 are mocking him and have figured out that he is a publicity hound.

Well, except for John Kerry - he can't really figure out what to do. Use your fifteen minutes wise kiddo - they are almost up.
http://www.nationalledger.com

[El Nino]

Exactly Braveman

[Legend]

John Kerry vs. Andrew Meyer: Taser Student Cries for Attention
By Lynda Johnson



So? What's your point? Even conspiracy theorists have the right to ask crazy questions and film themselves.

My point is this guy had a agenda from the beginning and beleive it or not thats gonna play a huge role in this case.You can't go into a place preplan to act like a jackass and cower behind the first amendment,you have to have some act of responsibility,well in my opinion.

[El Nino]

Your opinion is incorrect.

[evilash]

Your opinion is incorrect. Is it even possible for an opinion to be incorrect?...Yeahyah!!!!

[Legend]

Your opinion is incorrect.

That's the thing about opinions,everyone is entitled to one and if its incorrect in your view you still have to respect it.I've listen to every ones opinion in this thread and haven't resorted to personally attacks if someone disagrees with me because even if i don't agree with them i still respect their opinion.

[evilash]

Your opinion is incorrect.

That's the thing about opinions,everyone is entitled to one and if its incorrect in your view you still have to respect it.I've listen to every ones opinion in this thread and haven't resorted to personally attacks if someone disagrees with me because even if i don't agree with them i still respect their opinion.Opinions can't be correct or incorrect, they opinions.

[Trans Mission]

Your opinion is incorrect.

That's the thing about opinions,everyone is entitled to one and if its incorrect in your view you still have to respect it.I've listen to every ones opinion in this thread and haven't resorted to personally attacks if someone disagrees with me because even if i don't agree with them i still respect their opinion.Opinions can't be correct or incorrect, they opinions.


By definition- you're correct.

[Legend]

Your opinion is incorrect.

That's the thing about opinions,everyone is entitled to one and if its incorrect in your view you still have to respect it.I've listen to every ones opinion in this thread and haven't resorted to personally attacks if someone disagrees with me because even if i don't agree with them i still respect their opinion.Opinions can't be correct or incorrect, they opinions.

True dat!

[El Nino]

It is not a personal attack. To articulate myself further, it is not your OPINION which is incorrect but the standpoint of what is or what is not allowed as free speech, and in what context it takes place in is invariable. It does not matter how or why the speech is generated. We inherently have the right to say what we want to say regardless. Maybe he had an agenda, but so did a bunch of other kerry schmuck loyalists did who applauded the guy and sat there quiet the whole time. That was their own "preplanned agenda". So techically you are right, your opinion can not be right or wrong, but it is, when juxtaposed with direct interpretation of the Constitution, juvenile. For fuck's sake, wake up people, the country is on cusp of tryanny the likes of we have never seen before.
For example: http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/09/20/p19644

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BCLuYvBeq40

[evilash]

It is not a personal attack. To articulate myself further, it is not your OPINION which is incorrect but the standpoint of what is or what is not allowed as free speech, and in what context it takes place in is invariable. It does not matter how or why the speech is generated. We inherently have the right to say what we want to say regardless. Maybe he had an agenda, but so did a bunch of other kerry schmuck loyalists did who applauded the guy and sat there quiet the whole time. That was their own "preplanned agenda". So techically you are right, your opinion can not be right or wrong, but it is, when juxtaposed with direct interpretation of the Constitution, juvenile. For fuck's sake, wake up people, the country is on cusp of tryanny the likes of we have never seen before.
For example: http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/09/20/p19644

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BCLuYvBeq40This country has always been this way. Aint much thats changed except that we got a fucked up administration in the white house, but we gone done had that before too.

[El Nino]

Its up to the people to actually do something and change it. Furthermore, our civil liberties have in fact been stolenfrom us under the Bush regime, like no other.

[evilash]

Its up to the people to actually do something and change it. Furthermore, our civil liberties have in fact been stolenfrom us under the Bush regime, like no other.Like i said fucked up administration. Things will get better again, things will get bad again thats the way of the world, there is always someone or a group of people who dont agree with the current state of the government so they change it. Then someone else comes along and decides that they don't like the way the government is and they change it. Its been happening since the beginning of civilization, it happens to all countries around the world, and it will keep happening as long as man has the constant desire for power. Ain't nothing changed, People can cry all they want but if they don't go out and get into politics they ain't gonna do shit to change anything, they just cannon fodder. In this world there is doers and there is complainers.

[SmashysmashY]

it would be one thing to laugh at police brutality in another country, then you'd just be a jerk. but laughing about police brutality in your own country makes you a fool. so watch your teevee, play with your iphone and your internets but at least realize that people have a lack of respect for you for a reason and it's a pretty good reason.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/210907_b_brutality.htm

[SarahG]

The constitution clearly dictates that there is a freedom of speech, of peaceful assembly, of protest... things which were being trampled on in this case.

Peaceful doesn't mean you have to be polite.

Peaceful doesn't mean you have to agree with whatever the gov's "party lines" are

Peaceful doesn't mean that when someone asks a citizen to give up their civil liberties, that they have to comply with that request.


When can the government step in during something like this? When a protest evolves into a destructive riot, when people are being physically harmed, when private property is being damaged... those types of things. As long as people do not engage in maladaptive behaviors they can do whatever the hell they want to.

NAMBLA can advocate raping lil 5 year old boys for as long as they want to, but as soon as one of those lil fucks goes and DOES it, then they've crossed the line and are to be punished accordingly.

James Madison talks about this issue some years back;



AMONG the numerous advantages promised by a well constructed Union, none deserves to be more accurately developed than its tendency to break and control the violence of faction. The friend of popular governments never finds himself so much alarmed for their character and fate, as when he contemplates their propensity to this dangerous vice. He will not fail, therefore, to set a due value on any plan which, without violating the principles to which he is attached, provides a proper cure for it. The instability, injustice, and confusion introduced into the public councils, have, in truth, been the mortal diseases under which popular governments have everywhere perished; as they continue to be the favorite and fruitful topics from which the adversaries to liberty derive their most specious declamations. The valuable improvements made by the American constitutions on the popular models, both ancient and modern, cannot certainly be too much admired; but it would be an unwarrantable partiality, to contend that they have as effectually obviated the danger on this side, as was wished and expected. Complaints are everywhere heard from our most considerate and virtuous citizens, equally the friends of public and private faith, and of public and personal liberty, that our governments are too unstable, that the public good is disregarded in the conflicts of rival parties, and that measures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority. However anxiously we may wish that these complaints had no foundation, the evidence, of known facts will not permit us to deny that they are in some degree true. It will be found, indeed, on a candid review of our situation, that some of the distresses under which we labor have been erroneously charged on the operation of our governments; but it will be found, at the same time, that other causes will not alone account for many of our heaviest misfortunes; and, particularly, for that prevailing and increasing distrust of public engagements, and alarm for private rights, which are echoed from one end of the continent to the other. These must be chiefly, if not wholly, effects of the unsteadiness and injustice with which a factious spirit has tainted our public administrations.

By a faction, I understand a number of citizens, whether amounting to a majority or a minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adversed to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community.

There are two methods of curing the mischiefs of faction: the one, by removing its causes; the other, by controlling its effects.

There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests.

It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.

The second expedient is as impracticable as the first would be unwise. As long as the reason of man continues fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, different opinions will be formed. As long as the connection subsists between his reason and his self-love, his opinions and his passions will have a reciprocal influence on each other; and the former will be objects to which the latter will attach themselves. The diversity in the faculties of men, from which the rights of property originate, is not less an insuperable obstacle to a uniformity of interests. The protection of these faculties is the first object of government. From the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property, the possession of different degrees and kinds of property immediately results; and from the influence of these on the sentiments and views of the respective proprietors, ensues a division of the society into different interests and parties.

The latent causes of faction are thus sown in the nature of man; and we see them everywhere brought into different degrees of activity, according to the different circumstances of civil society. A zeal for different opinions concerning religion, concerning government, and many other points, as well of speculation as of practice; an attachment to different leaders ambitiously contending for pre-eminence and power; or to persons of other descriptions whose fortunes have been interesting to the human passions, have, in turn, divided mankind into parties, inflamed them with mutual animosity, and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppress each other than to co-operate for their common good. So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts. But the most common and durable source of factions has been the various and unequal distribution of property. Those who hold and those who are without property have ever formed distinct interests in society. Those who are creditors, and those who are debtors, fall under a like discrimination. A landed interest, a manufacturing interest, a mercantile interest, a moneyed interest, with many lesser interests, grow up of necessity in civilized nations, and divide them into different classes, actuated by different sentiments and views. The regulation of these various and interfering interests forms the principal task of modern legislation, and involves the spirit of party and faction in the necessary and ordinary operations of the government.

No man is allowed to be a judge in his own cause, because his interest would certainly bias his judgment, and, not improbably, corrupt his integrity. With equal, nay with greater reason, a body of men are unfit to be both judges and parties at the same time; yet what are many of the most important acts of legislation, but so many judicial determinations, not indeed concerning the rights of single persons, but concerning the rights of large bodies of citizens? And what are the different classes of legislators but advocates and parties to the causes which they determine? Is a law proposed concerning private debts? It is a question to which the creditors are parties on one side and the debtors on the other. Justice ought to hold the balance between them. Yet the parties are, and must be, themselves the judges; and the most numerous party, or, in other words, the most powerful faction must be expected to prevail. Shall domestic manufactures be encouraged, and in what degree, by restrictions on foreign manufactures? are questions which would be differently decided by the landed and the manufacturing classes, and probably by neither with a sole regard to justice and the public good. The apportionment of taxes on the various descriptions of property is an act which seems to require the most exact impartiality; yet there is, perhaps, no legislative act in which greater opportunity and temptation are given to a predominant party to trample on the rules of justice. Every shilling with which they overburden the inferior number, is a shilling saved to their own pockets.

It is in vain to say that enlightened statesmen will be able to adjust these clashing interests, and render them all subservient to the public good. Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm. Nor, in many cases, can such an adjustment be made at all without taking into view indirect and remote considerations, which will rarely prevail over the immediate interest which one party may find in disregarding the rights of another or the good of the whole.

The inference to which we are brought is, that the causes of faction cannot be removed, and that relief is only to be sought in the means of controlling its effects.

If a faction consists of less than a majority, relief is supplied by the republican principle, which enables the majority to defeat its sinister views by regular vote. It may clog the administration, it may convulse the society; but it will be unable to execute and mask its violence under the forms of the Constitution. When a majority is included in a faction, the form of popular government, on the other hand, enables it to sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens. To secure the public good and private rights against the danger of such a faction, and at the same time to preserve the spirit and the form of popular government, is then the great object to which our inquiries are directed. Let me add that it is the great desideratum by which this form of government can be rescued from the opprobrium under which it has so long labored, and be recommended to the esteem and adoption of mankind.

By what means is this object attainable? Evidently by one of two only. Either the existence of the same passion or interest in a majority at the same time must be prevented, or the majority, having such coexistent passion or interest, must be rendered, by their number and local situation, unable to concert and carry into effect schemes of oppression. If the impulse and the opportunity be suffered to coincide, we well know that neither moral nor religious motives can be relied on as an adequate control. They are not found to be such on the injustice and violence of individuals, and lose their efficacy in proportion to the number combined together, that is, in proportion as their efficacy becomes needful.

From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking. Let us examine the points in which it varies from pure democracy, and we shall comprehend both the nature of the cure and the efficacy which it must derive from the Union.

The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the latter may be extended.

The effect of the first difference is, on the one hand, to refine and enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country, and whose patriotism and love of justice will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations. Under such a regulation, it may well happen that the public voice, pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good than if pronounced by the people themselves, convened for the purpose. On the other hand, the effect may be inverted. Men of factious tempers, of local prejudices, or of sinister designs, may, by intrigue, by corruption, or by other means, first obtain the suffrages, and then betray the interests, of the people. The question resulting is, whether small or extensive republics are more favorable to the election of proper guardians of the public weal; and it is clearly decided in favor of the latter by two obvious considerations:

In the first place, it is to be remarked that, however small the republic may be, the representatives must be raised to a certain number, in order to guard against the cabals of a few; and that, however large it may be, they must be limited to a certain number, in order to guard against the confusion of a multitude. Hence, the number of representatives in the two cases not being in proportion to that of the two constituents, and being proportionally greater in the small republic, it follows that, if the proportion of fit characters be not less in the large than in the small republic, the former will present a greater option, and consequently a greater probability of a fit choice.

In the next place, as each representative will be chosen by a greater number of citizens in the large than in the small republic, it will be more difficult for unworthy candidates to practice with success the vicious arts by which elections are too often carried; and the suffrages of the people being more free, will be more likely to centre in men who possess the most attractive merit and the most diffusive and established characters.

It must be confessed that in this, as in most other cases, there is a mean, on both sides of which inconveniences will be found to lie. By enlarging too much the number of electors, you render the representatives too little acquainted with all their local circumstances and lesser interests; as by reducing it too much, you render him unduly attached to these, and too little fit to comprehend and pursue great and national objects. The federal Constitution forms a happy combination in this respect; the great and aggregate interests being referred to the national, the local and particular to the State legislatures.

The other point of difference is, the greater number of citizens and extent of territory which may be brought within the compass of republican than of democratic government; and it is this circumstance principally which renders factious combinations less to be dreaded in the former than in the latter. The smaller the society, the fewer probably will be the distinct parties and interests composing it; the fewer the distinct parties and interests, the more frequently will a majority be found of the same party; and the smaller the number of individuals composing a majority, and the smaller the compass within which they are placed, the more easily will they concert and execute their plans of oppression. Extend the sphere, and you take in a greater variety of parties and interests; you make it less probable that a majority of the whole will have a common motive to invade the rights of other citizens; or if such a common motive exists, it will be more difficult for all who feel it to discover their own strength, and to act in unison with each other. Besides other impediments, it may be remarked that, where there is a consciousness of unjust or dishonorable purposes, communication is always checked by distrust in proportion to the number whose concurrence is necessary.

Hence, it clearly appears, that the same advantage which a republic has over a democracy, in controlling the effects of faction, is enjoyed by a large over a small republic, -- is enjoyed by the Union over the States composing it. Does the advantage consist in the substitution of representatives whose enlightened views and virtuous sentiments render them superior to local prejudices and schemes of injustice? It will not be denied that the representation of the Union will be most likely to possess these requisite endowments. Does it consist in the greater security afforded by a greater variety of parties, against the event of any one party being able to outnumber and oppress the rest? In an equal degree does the increased variety of parties comprised within the Union, increase this security. Does it, in fine, consist in the greater obstacles opposed to the concert and accomplishment of the secret wishes of an unjust and interested majority? Here, again, the extent of the Union gives it the most palpable advantage.

The influence of factious leaders may kindle a flame within their particular States, but will be unable to spread a general conflagration through the other States. A religious sect may degenerate into a political faction in a part of the Confederacy; but the variety of sects dispersed over the entire face of it must secure the national councils against any danger from that source. A rage for paper money, for an abolition of debts, for an equal division of property, or for any other improper or wicked project, will be less apt to pervade the whole body of the Union than a particular member of it; in the same proportion as such a malady is more likely to taint a particular county or district, than an entire State.

In the extent and proper structure of the Union, therefore, we behold a republican remedy for the diseases most incident to republican government. And according to the degree of pleasure and pride we feel in being republicans, ought to be our zeal in cherishing the spirit and supporting the character of Federalists.

PUBLIUS


Granted no one seems to read nor give a shit about the opinions of our founding fathers anymore... but Madison is clear on all of this, completely clear.

By having the government attempt to use force, to restrict civil liberties OR constitutional rights (the two are different) in the name of controlling factions, we are specifically doing what was warned as impossible, impractical, and all about wrong.

Even the most madame of gatherings can result in private property damage, personal injury and other such things.

That does not translate into the government needing to preemptively strike against its citizens out of fear of such destructive elements.

For as long as a protest, assembly occurring stays away from such elements, there is no need nor gain for the government to step in to use force to break up said protest or assembly.

These cops were out of line, they trampled on this jerk's rights, and this jerk- as disgusting, despicable as he is- did not break any laws. Resisting arrest implies there was an arrest to be made, but for this jerk's actions there is no crime, and with there being no crime there can be no resistance to said crime's enforcement.

[El Nino]

Nice posts guys, I am glad that at least some of you recognize that there are a sadistic, dictorial group of elitists trying to take away our liberties. See: International Bankers, members of CFR, PNAC and Corporate Giants.

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

[Trogdor]

Some stupid ass postings here - typical of legend to jump in!

There were five fucking policemen and one loud mouthed idiot. They had him restrained. There was no need to taze him (and I hurt people yelling for them to stop as well as some laughter). It was nothing to do with Kerry, it was poorly trained police and they're lucky they didn't start a riot.

When police resort to tactics like this - and the same people supporting the police are probably the same people complaining about human rights in other countries, then it's little wonder the US is in the mess it's in.

They could have easily restrained him, escorted out of the building and taken him downtown too cool off. (or more likely given him a kicking when the cameras were off). Even easier would have been for Kerry to answer those questions and let the guy have his 5 min speech, if he was any sort of politician he should heva been able to turn the question around to his advantage.
There was no risk to him apart from embarressment.

BTW if it was my buddy I'd be laughing also - but probaby in a cell next to him as I would have had to throw something at those clowns.

Yep yep.

There was some video on the news here of something similer. Some 250 pound pig cop had a tiny lil blond ( probably 115 pounds at the most ) in cuffs and was tazzing the life outta here, and she was already in handcuffs and he was STILL tazing her in the car, in fact, the poor girl was slamming her feet against the car window cause she was scared for her life and was still getting zapped.

The pig got suspended....but with pay. :roll:

It's reasons like this that I never had trust, nor respect for police since I was 12 or 13.

And if you really wanna see some brutality, come over here to Detroit. Lots of bullshit going on down here like you won't believe. I still remember the deaf fellow who was weilding a rake, that the police gunned down.

I'd love to see those pigs get tazered for once by someone, so they know what it's like. :twisted:

[SarahG]

I'd love to see those pigs get tazered for once by someone, so they know what it's like. :twisted:

Like pepper spry/mace, they have to go through it once in training so they know how to react in case they accidentally get subjected to it in a skirmish.

[TJT]

Nice posts guys, I am glad that at least some of you recognize that there are a sadistic, dictorial group of elitists trying to take away our liberties. See: International Bankers, members of CFR, PNAC and Corporate Giants.

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

Don't forget the Jews,the Freemasons and the Teletubbies.

Hey! Was that a black helicopter that just went whizzing over?

[SmashysmashY]

Nice posts guys, I am glad that at least some of you recognize that there are a sadistic, dictorial group of elitists trying to take away our liberties. See: International Bankers, members of CFR, PNAC and Corporate Giants.

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

Don't forget the Jews,the Freemasons and the Teletubbies.

Hey! Was that a black helicopter that just went whizzing over?

And there's no such thing as a security and prosperity partnership, comprehensive annual financial reports don't exist either and the federal reserve is not a private bank. you have it all figured out.

[El Nino]

Two things:

1)The biggest government conspiracy of all, is the view that there are no conpiracies. See: Operation Northwoods or The gulf of Tonkin incident

2) The Federal Reserve IS a privately owned bank; regardless of it being named "Federal." They implement a practice called "fractional Rerserve Banking" wherein they create money out of thin air with nothing to back it up and then charge interest on it. This is the biggest monetary crime in the history of the WORLD. It is effectively doing away with the middle class. This will be apparent to the masses REAL soon.
See: The Federal Reserve Act, 1913

Presidential Candidate Ron Paul wants to wipe out the Fed Reserve and restore our Constitutional rights. Support this fucker

[El Nino]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention that the Teletubbies have nothing to do with this. Free Masons on the other hand?

[tubgirl]

I'd love to see those pigs get tazered for once by someone, so they know what it's like. :twisted:

just as an aside, police around here are tazed and maced during training so they do know what it feels like...

[SarahG]

Two things:

1)The biggest government conspiracy of all, is the view that there are no conpiracies. See: Operation Northwoods or The gulf of Tonkin incident

2) The Federal Reserve IS a privately owned bank; regardless of it being named "Federal." They implement a practice called "fractional Rerserve Banking" wherein they create money out of thin air with nothing to back it up and then charge interest on it. This is the biggest monetary crime in the history of the WORLD. It is effectively doing away with the middle class. This will be apparent to the masses REAL soon.
See: The Federal Reserve Act, 1913

Presidential Candidate Ron Paul wants to wipe out the Fed Reserve and restore our Constitutional rights. Support this fucker

I have mentioned Tonkins in the past on this board.

That one was hardly some crazy conspiracy theory; none other than Admiral Stockdale himself witnessed our military faking the incident and spoke of it very regularly.

We ought to be ashamed for what we (meaning the people) did to Stockdale when he was running in 92. I am not saying he needed be elected (Personally I would have rathered him be #1 on that ticket and not #2...), but we treated him as if he were a senile fool and we'd be hard pressed to find an academic, or a veteran who has done as much for our country as he has in recent decades.

[T5000]

Two things:

1)The biggest government conspiracy of all, is the view that there are no conpiracies. See: Operation Northwoods or The gulf of Tonkin incident

2) The Federal Reserve IS a privately owned bank; regardless of it being named "Federal." They implement a practice called "fractional Rerserve Banking" wherein they create money out of thin air with nothing to back it up and then charge interest on it. This is the biggest monetary crime in the history of the WORLD. It is effectively doing away with the middle class. This will be apparent to the masses REAL soon.
See: The Federal Reserve Act, 1913

Presidential Candidate Ron Paul wants to wipe out the Fed Reserve and restore our Constitutional rights. Support this fuckerActually perhaps all these little conspiracies are created in order to divert everyone from the real conspiracies. A smokescreen if you will. Sometimes false information can be the best weapon. Foot prints that lead nowhere. Information overload.
Ron Paul doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell on winning, If you look at all the candidates you can see that its another dunce festival.

[TJT]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention that the Teletubbies have nothing to do with this. Free Masons on the other hand?

What about the ones that charge?

[El Nino]

Disinfo and Diversion are two of the favorite tactics T50000.

[TJT]

It's post like those that make me glad I invested heavily in aluminum futures. Line those hats heavily and often boys.

[El Nino]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_account_balance

[El Nino]

That last post illustrates what these corrupt SOBs are doing to this country. And all you can do is make jokes about tinfoil hats.

[TJT]

If the beanie fits.

[TJT]

BTW,who are "they"?

[El Nino]

Back to the matter at hand... Police Brutality of the highest order. On Sept, 17, 2007 a fat Cop beats an old man for NO fucking reason. This one is getting censored by he media. View it while you can http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3003112374049396282

These are appearing to be quite more than just isolated incidents. I rest my case with this thread.

On a side note, your going to have to find out who "They" are yourself. Because Cnn, Msnbc, Fox or any other MSM network sure as hell ain't going to tell you.

[TJT]

You seem to have an idea of who "they" are. Please enlighten me on who your particular "they" might be?

I've noticed a tendency over the years for "them" to vary according to the particular strain of conspiracy virus infecting it's host.

What's yer Virus bro?

[El Nino]

just believe everything "they" feed you bro. Good sheep, now go back to sleep

[T5000]

just believe everything "they" feed you bro. Good sheep, now go back to sleepIt is actually a misnomer that the internet was created by Al Gore. The internet was created by the Illuminati. This way they can watch everyone. They also are able to watch you through your web-cam even when your computer is turned off, thanks to high speed internet connections ( Which by the way was created by the Freemasons). I hope you don't own a television because it happens to be a two way. The moderators on this website are hybrid clones. The taser incident was just a staged act (just like 99% of police brutality) to divert attention away from another alien space craft that landed in the heart of times square. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadineja is 1 half the reincarnation of Jesus and the other half of the reincarnated Jesus is our beloved president George W Bush. Also... Do not trust your mailman either!!!! They are the elite guards of our alien masters!!!! I have to go back underground now that ive exposed the truth.

[El Nino]

Don't Tase Me, Bro

[TJT]

Come on....who are "they"? Enlighten us,Hero of the Masses!

[El Nino]

http://www.nfowars.net:443/stream1.pls

Take a listen, with an open mind. Everything is based on facts and empiracal evidence.

This is all the time I have available, in regards to answering your redundant question. Peace

[El Nino]

TJT, this is my last post here in attempts to lead you to some answers. This is just scratching the surface too but gives you a little snapshot to at least one of the factions of who "they" are!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxPYa5mVlYU

[TJT]

Oh no,The dreaded New World Order!!!


If your gonna be a nutcase at least be an original nutcase? That one has been passe' for decades.


BTW,the Widow's Son says "Howdy".

[hondarobot]

Oh no,The dreaded New World Order!!!


If your gonna be a nutcase at least be an original nutcase? That one has been passe' for decades.


BTW,the Widow's Son says "Howdy".

No one came to the aid of the widows son, because those bastards polished his shoes off back when they hit Dutch Schultz. Heh.

Fnord

Jamie Mitchell will be making a comeback to the forum after reading this, I'm sure, although I hope not. His posts were impossible to read.

8)

[TJT]

She ain't no Eris.