Marriage of Convenience

[BeardedOne]

OK, I am a Federal employee of modest means, with a retirement package and genrous health benefits. Single, but with one child (Now 21 years of age), two cats (not including various strays on the grounds).

A week ago I took a header down the stairs and, by some miracle, survived. Yet, in that see-the-light-revelation stage that follows such near-death disasters, the thought foremost in my brain is that my Social Security and Federal Employment Retirement benefits will dissolve in a wisp of red tape upon my death.

On the other side of town is a close/intimate friend who works her ass off just to pay taxes and has no health beneifts and sketchy SS benefits due to years of moving from state to state and job to job.

So comes the "Marriage of Convenience" concept. Should we tie the knot at the local JP Court, she gets health benefits (And extended life benefits as well) and I get the satisfaction of thumbing my nose at the feds post-mortem by gifting her my death benefits from SS and FERS.

Are there present life benefits? Who knows, maybe she'll fuck me on the occasional Tuesday. Don't know. I can only hope.

I need opinions and comments (Particularly from the sharks on board - I know you're out there).

And to the skeptics: Yah, she knows I'm into T-gurls and thinks I don't suck enough cock to keep me happy. :P

[Rod la Rod]

I would say go for it if you are compatible. If the 2 of you could live together and get along and trust each other. Why not?

[chefmike]

It would be a very noble act, B1...and if there is really such a thing as karma, you should receive a well-deserved boatload of the good kind...

[BeardedOne]

I would say go for it if you are compatible. If the 2 of you could live together and get along and trust each other. Why not?

Well, it's oft been said that since we've known each other for 25 +/- years, hang out frequently, bicker constantly, and never have sex that the only thing missing is the ring. :lol:


It would be a very noble act, B1...and if there is really such a thing as karma, you should receive a well-deserved boatload of the good kind...

Yah, my Hope Diamond is due.

[Jericho]

Who knows, maybe she'll fuck me on the occasional Tuesday.

Or divorces you and fucks you for ever! :shock:


...swims off. :wink:

[BeardedOne]

Who knows, maybe she'll fuck me on the occasional Tuesday.

Or divorces you and fucks you for ever! :shock:


...swims off. :wink:

Not unnoticed, especially considering the fact that of the last thirty or forty weddings I was invited to all ended in bloody divorces (Save one, but she was gay, he was gay, and both their lovers were gay, so...).

Hence my request for opinions from the sharks. :wink:

[tonkatoy]

If you go that route B1, make sure you make her taste, in front of you, any drink/food she prepares for you. Good idea to alter your routine also, take different path to work/home everyday.

Actually it would be a very kind gesture, and if there was a heaven, you would probably be high enough up in hell to see it.

[Snoriega27]

In terms of benefits (monetary, not social), have you considered purchasing long term care insurance?

If you haven't done so already, you might want learn about it...especially if you don't "watch your step" in the future.

http://www.ltcfeds.com/

[TJT]

I've been involved in something like that for the better part of two decades Bearded.

In my line of work benefits are rare unless you're at the top of the heap. A woman I had a longterm relationship with got pregnant. She had a decent job but great benefits. We'd have never got married under normal circumstances. The fact that I'm a bastard in the true sense of the word and grew up when that carried a big time stigma made me want to tie the knot for that reason alone. So we did.

It's worked out well. The relationship is open as she is bisexual and I'm omnisexual for lack of a better word.(If it's human and I like it,I'll screw it.)

My health has gone to hell in the past five years. Her benefits have saved my ass. My hours are very flexible so I've been able to basically raise the kid with both of us working full time.

She's gets all of my life insurance and my half of the property we've acquired while the kid will inherit my interest in a family trust and other family property. If she goes first it's a similar deal.

It can work but you've got to be very clear about who gets what and get it down in a pre-nup.

I can't bitch.

[peggygee]

Well my friend that is a noble, kind and pragmatic gesture. 8)

Now that you bring it up, it may be something that others without
children or dependents may want to consider.

From a sharks point of view though, bear in mind that no good deed goes
unpunished. Thus I would advise that you enter into the marriage
with a prenup to protect your 'ass-etts', while you're alive, should
anything go wrong.

Other than that, I salute you General.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/smiley_handsclap1.gif

[Ecstatic]

What the other sharks said! Peggy's idea of a prenup is excellent.

Sorry to hear about the header down the stairs. Guess I'd best give you a shout out while you're still walking upright, huh?

[BeardedOne]

From a sharks point of view though, bear in mind that no good deed goes unpunished.

As so often happens to me. :?


What the other sharks said! Peggy's idea of a prenup is excellent.

There would certainly be a raft of paperwork involved. We each own our own homes and would like to keep them and there is the inevitable concern about credit scores, etc. It's all just random thoughts right now, but research is in progress.


Sorry to hear about the header down the stairs.

Yah, if I hadn't cushioned the fall with my face I'd really be messed up. :shock: Various spots still ache a bit, but nothing was broken.

[biguy4tvtscd]

As a taxpayer (i.e. one of the many schmucks who will actually pay the money), I respectfully request that you do not game the system in such a way.

The ends may be noble, but the means are fraudulent.

In no uncertain terms, it puts you in the same league as insurance scam artists, you know...those people culpable for the extremely high health insurance rates in America.

[LoadedRevolver66]

From a sharks point of view though, bear in mind that no good deed goes unpunished.

As so often happens to me. :?


What the other sharks said! Peggy's idea of a prenup is excellent.

There would certainly be a raft of paperwork involved. We each own our own homes and would like to keep them and there is the inevitable concern about credit scores, etc. It's all just random thoughts right now, but research is in progress.

How old are you, B1? I don't know why, but I want to say you're 50-ish (maybe from another post?). Anyway, if you have another 20 years or so, my advice is you probably shouldn't. Yeah, there's prenup, but they can be challenged and if she changes her mind sometime down the road, it'll get ugly at a time when you really don't need that shit. If it gets beyond research, make sure you discuss prenups, paperwork, and assets with a VERY good lawyer, alone and without her. It helps to keep one card face down when you're making a gamble.

But aside from all the negative aspects, if it work out for both of you, then cheers mate!

[BeardedOne]

Actually it would be a very kind gesture, and if there was a heaven, you would probably be high enough up in hell to see it.

Thanks, Tonka. I like that reference, and will make note of it.

To those that have asked elsewhere, here is an update:

We had dinner tonite upon her return from a nice overseas vacation, during which she became distinctly aware that her friend/companion/guide was attempting to broker her and her US citizenship to the locals. Needless to say, she is furious, and rightly so.

And so the subject of marriage was discussed again. She is running the thought past an accountant and lawyer that she knows and I am running it by a lawyer and a person I know who is in a similar relationship already. Time will tell.


As a taxpayer (i.e. one of the many schmucks who will actually pay the money), I respectfully request that you do not game the system in such a way.

The ends may be noble, but the means are fraudulent.

While I understand your opinion and the intent of your post, you need to be reminded of one simple fact:

THIS IS MY MONEY!, not yours or the American taxpayers'.

It has absolutely =NOTHING= to do with tax revenues and =EVERYTHING= to do with the money that I have been paying into the system for the past forty-plus years. If I die and cannot bequeath the monies in some way, then, by your logic, I am cheating the system out of MY MONEY. Sorry, that plan doesn't wash.


In no uncertain terms, it puts you in the same league as insurance scam artists, you know...those people culpable for the extremely high health insurance rates in America.

I'm sure that, unlike Phillip & Catherine Lewis and their $175k settlement against Snappy Car Rental because his dick couldn't get hard a year after his accident, the fact that I am dead might be more evidentialy proved positive.

While some such as yourself may see this as a form of welfare fraud, it most certainly is not. We both work, we both paty taxes, we pay our bills, we both own property (Upon which we pay =more= taxes). Yet, in each of our situations, we are being punished in some form for being single.

I have been watching the gay marriage debacle with some interest because I have many, many friends that this is very important to, yet no one seems to have grasped the big picture: It is the people who are already granted the right to marriage and all of its related benefits who are receiving the 'special treatment' that is so often used as the battle cry against same-sex unions.

So, speaking from my fucking soapbox: Why am I, a single, white, middle-class, American, property-owning, tax-paying, 'straight' (The term is relative), male being discrimiated against by the blood/marriage relative property laws?

:soapbox

And why is my friend, a single, hard working, tax-paying, property-owning, American female, being told that she has to pay $400 a month for health and life benefits when she lives in the richest, most powerful nation on the planet?

:soapbox

[Barno]

Here's an interesting thought. Even though neither of you are wealthy at least from what I've read, you should get a pre-nuptial agreement. This way if it is just a passing fad and it turns out that she won't fuck you on any of the nights of the week let alone Tuesdays at least your income and any other assets are protected. You see if you stay together for a period of time or heaven forbid have a child she will get a healthy bite of your income as alimony or child support. A pre-nup will keep a divorce under control financially. Believe me it's worth the legal fee to get this agreement before you jump into the ocean.

[CORVETTEDUDE]

B1...My advice would be to seek 'independent counsel', someone both your advisors can refer you to, and has absolutely no connection to either of you, whatsoever. People you know CAN have their own agenda. Based on what you have stated, so far, I think there is a possibility your relationship could become stronger. :2cent

Retired Navy(26 yrs.), and looking for similar arrangements.

[PhillyTSlover]

Uhh...what happens if you meet a woman you're genuinely attracted to, and would like to have a relationship with? No woman (or T-Girl for that matter) will overlook a marriage, whether it be real or a marriage of convenience. Are you basically going to cut yourself off emotionally from dating/sex? What's the point of living?

[BeardedOne]

Follow up reply to Loaded Revolver (Damn, I so need one of those):


How old are you, B1? I don't know why, but I want to say you're 50-ish (maybe from another post?). Anyway, if you have another 20 years or so, my advice is you probably shouldn't. Yeah, there's prenup, but they can be challenged and if she changes her mind sometime down the road, it'll get ugly at a time when you really don't need that shit. If it gets beyond research, make sure you discuss prenups, paperwork, and assets with a VERY good lawyer, alone and without her. It helps to keep one card face down when you're making a gamble.

But aside from all the negative aspects, if it work out for both of you, then cheers mate!

Just coming on to the big Five-Oh. And I may not have the next 20 +/- years. Doing the basic genetic math (My Grandfather was 66, my dad 72 when they died) I am hoping for 78 as a minimum end game. Yet, headers down the stairs, random bullets from rogue cops (Brookline, 1977), and the average inept driver on the NJTP can cut this short at any moment.

We are looking at the prenups extensively and independently. I also have an inside track from a couple of directions: One being a couple who married for a combination of spousal benefits and for family security as they both wanted to have a child (I've met him, now about age 18, and he is the most incredibly gifted individual I have ever known while both his parents are gay - Bringing many challenges to the family relationship) and the other (Including the lawyer that will revue any prenup I might consider) being relatively affluent having deep experience with prenups and extensive spousal/joint estate planning.

At worst, it will all make for a good read.

[dan_drade]

I have to agree with Peggy. Prenup, Prenup, Prenup.
That said, if I were in your postition, I would find a nice Transexual woman to marry. I have known a few T-Girls, and the cost for medical tratment really adds up. I think it far exeeds the cost of your average GG, unless she is psyco and requires a lot of Xanax and shink appointments, you know the kind of girl I am talking about. And besides, there are way too many Transexuals out there with no medical insurance at all.
Anyway, in my opinion, it would be really great to help out a nice T-girl in that way.
Sheesh, I hope that didn't sound stupid.

[peggygee]

Just coming on to the big Five-Oh. And I may not have the next 20 +/- years. Doing the basic genetic math (My Grandfather was 66, my dad 72 when they died) I am hoping for 78 as a minimum end game. Yet, headers down the stairs, random bullets from rogue cops (Brookline, 1977), and the average inept driver on the NJTP can cut this short at any moment.


50 is the new 40, why you're just a spring chicken. Stop drinking large
quantiies of cheap beer, and taking headers down the stairs and you could
be on HA into your 90s.

And who in the hell gets shot at by the Brookline police. :lol:

[BeardedOne]

Sheesh, I hope that didn't sound stupid.

Nah, so far I am holding all the cards on that in this thread.


That said, if I were in your postition, I would find a nice Transexual woman to marry.

As nice as that may be, for all involved, much of this is based on the fact that we've known each other for decades and both have trust issues that the other seems to temper somewhat.

Also, as a curiosity factor: How do T marriages work? Aren't they seen as same-sex unions? This is for future reference. :)


Uhh...what happens if you meet a woman you're genuinely attracted to, and would like to have a relationship with? No woman (or T-Girl for that matter) will overlook a marriage, whether it be real or a marriage of convenience. Are you basically going to cut yourself off emotionally from dating/sex? What's the point of living?

Sadly, I've already encountered the what's-the-point concept a number of times in recent years and it's something I wrestle with on a daily basis. Some, perhaps most of these issues, have their roots in earlier relationships. The trust issues that arose from that history have caused some serious mental and emotional damage to where I, who once had several 'wives' and enjoyed 'dating' quite freely, effectively flipped the switch and shut down. In the last ten years, since the end of my last relationship that is known to my immediate friends as "The Bloodbath", I have only had a handful of sexual encounters of which at least half were commercial in nature (The others being as much accidental as intended).

Relative to that, I seriously doubt there is any kind of serious relationship in my future (And never marriage, because I have such a distain for the institution as a whole). As to 'dating' (However one might define it), that isn't entirely off the books. We'd both remain independent of one another as we are now and I, for one am poly in nature (Which she knows quite well) tweaking the definition of 'marriage' somewhat as it is.


B1...My advice would be to seek 'independent counsel'...

Noted and understood. Especially important in that the lawyer I am pinging is a former lover who has remained friends with me.


Even though neither of you are wealthy at least from what I've read, you should get a pre-nuptial agreement.

Oh, we are not ignoring this at all. Primary concerns of ours are the individual properties, our families (We each have one child), as well as credit histories/scores and so forth.


This way if it is just a passing fad and it turns out that she won't fuck you on any of the nights of the week let alone Tuesdays at least your income and any other assets are protected.

While not expected, I am hoping we might come to some agreement on the second Tuesday of every month, at the very least. :)

[peggygee]

That said, if I were in your postition, I would find a nice Transexual woman to marry. I have known a few T-Girls, and the cost for medical tratment really adds up. I think it far exeeds the cost of your average GG, unless she is psyco and requires a lot of Xanax and shink appointments, you know the kind of girl I am talking about. And besides, there are way too many Transexuals out there with no medical insurance at all.
Anyway, in my opinion, it would be really great to help out a nice T-girl in that way.
Sheesh, I hope that didn't sound stupid.

With the various states that have dometic partnership, and civil marriages,
more pre ops should get wifed up and put on their husbands health
coverage.

And I still think that a woman should be working and contributing
economically to the relationship, but this could help her with some
of her transition costs, and overall health costs.

With a post op, the lions share of her transition costs should have been
taken care of. At that point the two of you should be able to start looking
at property acquisiton, saving for retirement, etc.

Depending on whose health plan is the strongest or most affordable, that
would be the spouse who would add on the other one.

If you can meet a stable, trustworthy transwoman, I would suggest that
a person look at the financial ramifications and benefits, and not just the
sexual fantasy parts.

[BeardedOne]

Stop drinking large quantiies of cheap beer, and taking headers down the stairs and you could be on HA into your 90s.

I am taking the stairs much more carefully and I working on the beer part (Though it seems to work harder than I do :? ).


And who in the hell gets shot at by the Brookline police.

Besides their own children (I personally know of one incident from about 1974)? Anyone who challenged their activities and brought suspected corruption and malfeasance to light. Um...That would include me.

[peggygee]

[quote]
Also, as a curiosity factor: How do T marriages work? Aren't they seen as same-sex unions? This is for future reference. :)

:)

There are state by state differences, and whether a woman is pre
or post op may factor into it, but it is very do-able.

[dan_drade]

Sheesh, I hope that didn't sound stupid.

Nah, so far I am holding all the cards on that in this thread.


That said, if I were in your postition, I would find a nice Transexual woman to marry.

As nice as that may be, for all involved, much of this is based on the fact that we've known each other for decades and both have trust issues that the other seems to temper somewhat.

Also, as a curiosity factor: How do T marriages work? Aren't they seen as same-sex unions? This is for future reference. :)



In California a girl can legally change her staus to female once certain requirements are met. I have no idea what those requirements are, but maybe Peggy knows. She seems to know everything on this subject. Anyway, once her status has changed she can then legally marry a man as man and wife.

I know that it would be nice if more T-Girls could find employment that has benifits, but for a lot of them that is really hard to do. After all, society still has its issues with this kind of thing you know.

Anyway, good luck to you in however you decide to pursue this.

[peggygee]

In California a girl can legally change her staus to female once certain requirements are met. I have no idea what those requirements are, but maybe Peggy knows. She seems to know everything on this subject. Anyway, once her status has changed she can then legally marry a man as man and wife.

I know that it would be nice if more T-Girls could find employment that has benifits, but for a lot of them that is really hard to do. After all, society still has its issues with this kind of thing you know.

Anyway, good luck to you in however you decide to pursue this.

Thanks Dan for the plug. :wink:

So ladies you're out driving with friends or on a date. Or you
are cashing a check, and you are asked for identification.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/statepopo-1.jpg

Are your papers in order?

:roll:

These sites may be useful in having your documents changed:

http://www.tsroadmap.com/reality/legalindex.html

http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/i...ml?record=1164

http://www.drbecky.com/birthcert.html

By the by, anyone need a job? (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=16294&start=0)

[biguy4tvtscd]

As a taxpayer (i.e. one of the many schmucks who will actually pay the money), I respectfully request that you do not game the system in such a way.

The ends may be noble, but the means are fraudulent.

While I understand your opinion and the intent of your post, you need to be reminded of one simple fact:

THIS IS MY MONEY!, not yours or the American taxpayers'.

It has absolutely =NOTHING= to do with tax revenues and =EVERYTHING= to do with the money that I have been paying into the system for the past forty-plus years. If I die and cannot bequeath the monies in some way, then, by your logic, I am cheating the system out of MY MONEY. Sorry, that plan doesn't wash.

Listen, if it's 100% your money, then I have no qualms. However, as an employee of the Federal Government, I have to assume that some percentage of your retirement benefits are provided by your employer (i.e. me and the other taxpayers)
So again, if every penny that will be paid out to you, was initially pain in by you, then I will kindly STFU. However, if not, then I remain steadfast in my opinion.




In no uncertain terms, it puts you in the same league as insurance scam artists, you know...those people culpable for the extremely high health insurance rates in America.

I'm sure that, unlike Phillip & Catherine Lewis and their $175k settlement against Snappy Car Rental because his dick couldn't get hard a year after his accident, the fact that I am dead might be more evidentialy proved positive.

You may have missed my point.
I did not use fraudulent to imply you would fake your own death to receive the benefits. I used fraudulent because it sounds like your benefits would increase due to your status changing from "single" to "married".
Again, if I am incorrect in that assumption, then I will kindly STFU.
However, if it is true that your benefits would increase due to this marriage you propose, then you will indeed be defrauding the system. You will be a part of the "my taxes are too high" problem, as opposed to a part of the solution.


Honestly, I sincerely hope that I have misconstrued the scenario, and if so, I remove all objections. However, if I have not, then I shall not.

[BeardedOne]

Hmm...I have to look at the formula again. I don't see how my benefits would increase from this (In fact, it is more likely that my taxes will increase via the infamous 'marriage penalty').

As to the percentage of the benfits paid in by the employer, they are not based in taxes, but to better inform myself I'll ping the Inspector General's office to reasearch it further and inquire about the ethical implications.

Yet, even so, you're saying that those contributions, made as part of a blanket benefits package to reward the employees (And more to the fact, to keep them from bolting to the private sector), is just an Enron-esque mask that they can recall at any time? Damn, I am beginning to hate them more by the minute. 'Oops, you're dead, you (Or your designated heirs and beneficiaries) can't have that stuff we promised to you when you signed on'.

*Sigh* Next thing we'll be discussing is the thousands of retirees who 'live in sin' because a marriage would reduce their Social Security benefits. I guess that's not fraud, though.

Edit: While I appreciate your offer of STFU (Thanx, BTW. :D ), I also appreciate the input. Seriously, I dutifully pay my dues to Big Brother and am equally put out by those that reach into his, and therefore =our=, pockets. I don't cheat on my taxes, declare all of my income, and generally =try= to play by the rules. I have found out that one benefit can be bequeathed to my son, so it has been removed from the equation already. I have no gripe about paying my share, but I'm somewhat adverse to 'gifts to the government' that are not otherwise required or earned.