Failure in Afghanistan?

[Rogers]

British high command is warning that the military situation in Afghanistan is shaky and, should NATO fail there, the consequences may result in a nuclear-armed jihadist regime in Pakistan.

Part of the problem is that debate in the United States remains fixated upon the situation in Iraq. In this pre-season of the 2008 elections, neither major political party in the U.S. had yet even attempted to articulate a grand strategy for the global war against al-Qaeda to replace the “neoconservative” vision that is widely viewed as a failure.

Many European governments lament U.S. distraction and mismanagement, but are unable to fill the resulting gaps themselves. Meanwhile, al-Qaeda’s strength has been rebuilt and a U.S. defeat in Iraq combined with a NATO defeat in Afghanistan may permanently shift the field of battle to the streets of London and New York where advance skirmishes have already been fought and won.
http://mvdg.wordpress.com/2007/07/15/failure-in-afghanistan/

Failure in Afghanistan risks rise in terror, say generals
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2126817,00.html
NATO must pull together in Afghanistan: Harper
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070718/harper_afghanistan_070718/20070718?hub=CTVNewsAt11
We are failing in Afghanistan
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2129595,00.html
Soldier Warns Of Afghan Failure
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1275751,00.html

[guyone]

...if that's what you want to believe.

[Rogers]

...if that's what you want to believe.
It has nothing to do with what I believe, or want to believe, guyone. If you'd actually read the articles I linked to, you would have seen it was a warning of failure if action is not taken NOW. The Generals' have essentially issued NATO with a call-to-arms to stump up the troops they need to get the job done. Are you a military expert on the ground in Afghanistan, guyone? No, I didn't think so. :smh

No use crying about things when it's too late, guyone!

[guyone]

I'm not a military expert but I have many friends in the military who always laugh at this stuff. I tend to side with them being they are actually there.

[Rogers]

I'm not a military expert but I have many friends in the military who always laugh at this stuff. I tend to side with them being they are actually there.
...if that's what you want to believe. :lol:

[guyone]

It's what I know.

So there.

[Rogers]

It's what I know.

So there.
Well, that's me told. :oops: Damn those whining Generals!

Not meaning to be disrespectful to any soldier, guyone, but aren't they trained to obey orders and not think too much for themselves?

[guyone]

I know you are but what am I?

[North_of_60]

Soldiers think fast and well. They're the ultimate killing machine trained to make war. They are good men and women, but in their ways and manners, objectivity is punishable.

Back to Afghanistan...

I like Robert Fisk. He is probably the most famous foreign correspondant with over thirty years of experience in international politics.

You must read The Great War for Civilisation - The Conquest of the Middle East.

His descriptions of the sensless war the Soviet Army fought against the Afghani Mujahideens is astonishing and so reavealing of the great clash of civilizations. Be aware that a Russian Communist has much more in common with a conservative US rightwinger than any Pachtun living in a Hindu Kush valley.

The invasion of Irak and the quagmire the US Gi's are swimming in must bring back some bad memories to the old russian soldiers.

'Terrorism' is a word that has become a plague on our vocabulary,the excuse and reason and moral permit for state-sponsored violence - our violence - which is now used on the innocent of the Middle East ever more outrageously and promiscuously. Terrorism, terrorism, terrorism. It has become a full stop, a punctuation mark, a phrase, a speech, a sermon, the be-all and end-all of everything that we must hate in order to ignore injustice and occupation and murder on a mass scale. Terror, terror, terror, terror. It is a sonata, a symphony, an orchestra tuned to every television and radio station and news agency report, the soap-opera of the Devil, served up on prime-time or distilled in wearyingly dull and mendacious form by the right-wing 'commentators' of the America east coast or the Jerusalem Post or the intellectuals of Europe. Strike against Terror. Victory over Terror. War on Terror. Everlasting War on Terror. Rarely in history have soldiers and journalists and presidents and kings aligned themselves in such thoughtless, unquestioning ranks. In August 1914, the soldiers thought they would be home by Christmas. Today, we are fighting for ever. The war is eternal. The enemy is eternal, his face changing on our screens. Once he lived in Cairo and sported a moustache and nationalised the Suez Canal. Then he lived in Tripoli and wore a ridiculous military uniform and helped the IRA and bombed American bars in Berlin. Then he wore a Muslim Imam's gown and ate yoghurt in Teheran and planned Islamic revolution. Then he wore a white gown and lived in a cave in Afghanistan and then he wore another silly moustache and resided in a series of palaces around Baghdad. Terror, terror, terror. Finally, he wore a kuffiag headdress and outdated Soviet-style military fatigues, his name was Yassir Arafat, and he was the master of world terror and then a super-statesman and then again, a master of terror, linked by Israeli enemies to the terror-Meister of them all, the one who lived in the Afghan cave.

[guyone]

We've got much better toys than the Russians.

[Rogers]

We've got much better toys than the Russians.
And the Russians' (and British) had much better toys than the Afghans' did. (And the U.S. had much better toys than the Viet Cong did, etc..)

Ashdown warned: 'Unless we put this right, unless we have a unitary system of command, we are going to lose. The battle for this is the battle of public opinion. The polls are slipping. Once they go on the slide it is almost impossible to win it back. You can only do it with the support of the local population.

'There is a very short shelf life for an occupation force. Once that begins to shift against you it is very very difficult to turn it round.'
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2126817,00.html

[guyone]

We are not an occupation force. We fight in the name of the Lion of Panjshir, Ahmad Shah Masud! And vengence will be ours.

[Rogers]

"I disagree". :wink:

[guyone]

The Transformers are on our side.

[tsmandy]

I like Robert Fisk. He is probably the most famous foreign correspondant with over thirty years of experience in international politics.

You must read The Great War for Civilisation - The Conquest of the Middle East.

His descriptions of the sensless war the Soviet Army fought against the Afghani Mujahideens is astonishing and so reavealing of the great clash of civilizations. Be aware that a Russian Communist has much more in common with a conservative US rightwinger than any Pachtun living in a Hindu Kush valley.

The invasion of Irak and the quagmire the US Gi's are swimming in must bring back some bad memories to the old russian soldiers.
[/i]

I just finished this book, it was phenomenal. I've always appreciated Fisk's reporting and this book was absolutely devestating. North_60 I'm really excited that you referenced it.

Oh yeah, the war in Afghanistan is a travesty. A pointless travesty.

[North_of_60]

I discovered Fisk one month following 9/11. I was in Heathrow UK trying to kill a 6 hrs delay flight. I bought this paper: The Independent, and read his column.

In this period of great anxiety for every Occidental, following those unconceivable attacks in NY, Fisk brought me an "inlighted" point of view... And of course, as you've probably read in the book, he knew Bin Laden.

Afghanistan has suffered a great deal since Alexander the Great, through Genghis Khan, the British, the Soviets, and now in the maelstrom of the great clash of civilizations between the Occident and the Middle-East.

Every war has economical issues, always. They are no good or evil. Just plain money, the territory wich grants it, and the one who owns it all.

The Afghanis are sitting on an strange geo-political island fighting every invaders like Corsicans defending themselves against pirates.

Hamid Karzai is the western buffoon for many of them. Since September 11 more civilians have died as a result of the war on terror, than terrorists have killed in the past 35 years. Try to argue with a Pachtun, now.

[Rogers]

Afghan, NATO forces recapture Musa Qala
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Afghan forces and their foreign allies re-captured Musa Qala today, finally bringing an end to the Taliban regime in their showpiece enclave.

Soldiers from the Afghan National Army claimed the broken remains of the town's district administrative building around 2 p.m. local time, said Major Charles Anthony, a NATO spokesman.

For the last 10 months, insurgents have trumpeted their control of the district about 100 kilometres northwest of Kandahar city, and Afghan officials have repeatedly vowed to take it back.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071210.wcanukafghan1210/BNStory/International/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20071210.wcanukafghan1210

Forces may be locked into Afghan conflict for decade, Gordon Brown's trip to front line reveals
December 11, 2007
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3031484.ece

[g826665]

The presense of U.S. troops in Afghanistan is about an oil pipeline and protection of the poppy fields. Don't kid yourself.

[SmashysmashY]

if robert fisk is so smart then how come he doesn't know that afghanistan isn't in the middle east it's in central asia.

[hippifried]

:soapbox
We're going to set you folks free if we have to kill every last one of you to do it!

Maybe if we thin the herd & get rid of some of these experts on Afghanistan, invade & conquer Iran, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kurdistan, & all those other 'stans, the generals would have enough room to work & "get the job done".

Oh by the way: What was the job again?

[CORVETTEDUDE]

It's what I know.

So there.
Well, that's me told. :oops: Damn those whining Generals!

Not meaning to be disrespectful to any soldier, guyone, but aren't they trained to obey orders and not think too much for themselves?

AND, correct me if I'm wrong but, aren't journalists focused on getting their "bullshit" in print, with little regard for truth or accuracy.

Background: I'm a retired Navy SEAL. The media has played a hand, unvoluntarily, in the deaths of several of my Team members. Their ambition to spring a leak on 'hot' information has been deadly irresponsible. They do not command my respect.

Therefore, I will, in all cases, take the evaluation of a field soldier over anybody that is a polotian or an assumed "expert". The only thing they're an expert on, is bullshit.

[Rogers]

It's what I know.

So there.
Well, that's me told. :oops: Damn those whining Generals!

Not meaning to be disrespectful to any soldier, guyone, but aren't they trained to obey orders and not think too much for themselves?

AND, correct me if I'm wrong but, aren't journalists focused on getting their "bullshit" in print, with little regard for truth or accuracy.

Background: I'm a retired Navy SEAL. The media has played a hand, unvoluntarily, in the deaths of several of my Team members. Their ambition to spring a leak on 'hot' information has been deadly irresponsible. They do not command my respect.

Therefore, I will, in all cases, take the evaluation of a field soldier over anybody that is a polotian or an assumed "expert". The only thing they're an expert on, is bullshit.
Of course there are good and bad journalists, CORVETTEDUDE, just as there are good and bad soldiers. Please read the links in my first post on this thread, DUDE. The recent hard-won victories in Afghanistan have largely been down to the extra troops the British have transferred there from Iraq... that's what the whole point of this thread was about, Generals, Field Soldiers, and Politicians raising the need for more troops to be sent to Afghanistan to support those that are already there, but that seems to have been completely lost on guyone and now you, DUDE.