Animal Cruelty At It's Worst: Vick Indicted

[chefmike]

Falcons' Vick Charged With Dogfighting


RICHMOND, Va. — When a Bad Newz Kennels dog was wounded in a losing fight, NFL star Michael Vick was consulted before the animal was doused with water and electrocuted. That's just one of the gruesome details that emerged Tuesday when the Atlanta Falcons quarterback and three others were indicted by a federal grand jury.

The four were charged with competitive dogfighting, procuring and training pit bulls for fighting and conducting the enterprise across state lines.

They are scheduled to appear in federal court in Richmond on July 26, the same day the Falcons begin training camp. The four will have a bond hearing before a magistrate judge at 3:30 p.m., and an arraignment will follow at 4 p.m., the court said Wednesday.

The 18-page indictment, filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, alleged the 27-year-old Vick and his co-defendants began the dogfighting operation in early 2001, the former Virginia Tech star's rookie year as the No. 1 pick.


The operation was centered at a property Vick owned in Surry County, where a fence shielded prying eyes from the back, and the two-story brick home was surrounded by fencing in the front, with several black buildings further back.

Unlike previous documents, which did not name Vick, the indictment is littered with his name, including this tidbit _ Vick was known as "Ookie" in the dogfighting world.

If convicted of all the charges, Vick and the others _ Purnell A. Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach; Quanis L. Phillips, 28, of Atlanta; and Tony Taylor, 34, of Hampton _ could face up to six years in prison, $350,000 in fines and restitution.

A woman who answered the phone at the home of Vick's mother, Brenda Boddie, said "no comment" and quickly hung up.

Telephone messages left at the offices and home of Vick's attorney, Larry Woodward, and an e-mail sent to his office were not returned.

While the Falcons and the NFL said little Tuesday, John Goodwin of the Humane Society of the United States said the details were especially troubling.

About eight young dogs were put to death at the Surry County home after they were found not ready to fight in April 2007, the indictment said. They were killed "by hanging, drowning and/or slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."

"Some of the grisly details in these filings shocked even me, and I'm a person who faces this stuff every day," Goodwin said. "I was surprised to see that they were killing dogs by hanging them, and one dog was killed by slamming it to the ground. Those are extremely violent methods of execution _ they're unnecessary and just sick."

Purses for the fights ranged from hundreds of dollars to the thousands, and participants and spectators often placed side bets on the outcome, according to the indictment.

After two Bad Newz Kennels dogs lost fights in March 2003, the indictment alleged Vick gave a bag containing $23,000 to the owner of the winning dogs.

Started in early 2002, according to the indictment, Bad Newz Kennels began purchasing pit bulls to train as fighters. Eventually, the defendants bought shirts and headbands "representing and promoting their affiliation."

After an April police raid on the property, Vick said he was rarely at the house, however, and had no idea that it might have been used in a criminal enterprise. He blamed family members for taking advantage of his generosity and pledged to be more careful.

He has since said very little, citing the advice of his attorneys.

But Tuesday the NFL was quick to decry the alleged animal abuse.

"The activities alleged are cruel, degrading and illegal. Michael Vick's guilt has not yet been proven, and we believe that all concerned should allow the legal process to determine the facts," NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said.

Vick and the Falcons are due to report to training camp next week.

"Obviously, we are disturbed by today's news," the team said in a statement posted on its Web site, apologizing to fans for the negative publicity. "We will do the right thing for our club as the legal process plays out. We have a season to prepare for."

Vick and the others are accused of "knowingly sponsoring and exhibiting an animal fighting venture" and conducting a business enterprise involving gambling, as well as buying, transporting and receiving dogs for the purposes of an animal fighting venture.

The indictment said dogfights were held at the Virginia property and dog owners brought animals from six states, including New York and Texas.

Local authorities have been investigating since an April 25 drug raid at the property. On June 7, officials with the Department of Agriculture with help from state police executed their own search warrant and found the remains of seven dogs.

Surry County prosecutor Gerald G. Poindexter said he didn't know of the indictment before it was filed, and said he's not sure how the county will continue its separate case.

At the start, authorities seized 66 dogs, including 55 pit bulls, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting. About half the dogs were tethered to car axles with heavy chains that allowed the dogs to get close to each other, but not to have contact _ an arrangement typical for fighting dogs, according to the search warrant affidavit.

Before fights, participating dogs of the same sex would be weighed and bathed, according to the filings. Opposing dogs would be washed to remove any poison or narcotic placed on the dog's coat that could affect the other dog's performance.

Sometimes, dogs weren't fed to "make it more hungry for the other dog."

Fights would end when one dog died or with the surrender of the losing dog, which was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method, according to the documents.

[chefmike]

The indictment:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0717072vick1.html

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

Vick will do no time, might get a heavy slap on the wrist, but in this country where men & women get away with murder of other 'humans' based on trial technicalities on a daily basis.........................not a chance. Now his partners in crime might do some time behind bars, but Vick at best will get community service and a huge lawyers fee.

[chefmike]

Agreed.

[dderek123]

good news for Panthers fans! (Go panthers)
good news for Animals (this loser could spend up to 6 years in jail, the only pitbulls there will be trained to tear his arm off)
good news for women in clubs (he has herpes and has infected women in the past under the alius of Ron Mexico)
bad news for Michael Vick aka Ron Mexico

I think this guy should get suspended from the NFL for 1 year at least. This has been very messy and very public. I don't care how many tickets, t-shirts or jerseys he can sell Goodell has got to come down hard on him like he has with Tank Johnson and Pacman Jones.
Even if he gets disciplined harshly or not I think his reputation is definitely going down the tubes. This guy is supposed to be a role model to young people?

[Vicki Richter]

At least he wasn't having sex with the dogs.

[dderek123]

At least he wasn't having sex with the dogs.

indeed, the dogs could have caught a nasty case of herpes.

[chefmike]

At least he wasn't having sex with the dogs.

Are you saying that Legend has sex with dogs, Vicki?

[Vicki Richter]

At least he wasn't having sex with the dogs.

Are you saying that Legend has sex with dogs, Vicki?

Don't you think he does? He showed some perverted cartoon where a woman was having sex with a dog.

[hwbs]

i think anyone who takes this as a joke to watch the vids they have shown of these dog fights...have a heart bitches....also innocent till proven guilty , lmfao

[jmt]

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[ARMANIXXX]

the nfl and the falcons need to step up and kick this punk out of the league.

i think vick very well could do jail time on this. if it was just the state going after him then i would say he will just get a slap on the wrist. but this is the feds, i'm sure they will do anything they can to nail his ass to the wall.




__________________________________________________ __________________________



I have a better idea.

How about we not jump to conclusions before we get all the facts and we get over a trial or to a plea.....IF this does go to trial and plea that is.



Everyone already screwed Michael Vick over with the "water bottle" incident, we already screwed those Duke boys.

So lets practice "lessons learned" ok.

[ARMANIXXX]

Also,

Suspending or "kicking him out" prematurely could have dire consequenses for his case in terms of "jury-tainting".

Wouldn't be resposible for the league to do that.

[BeardedOne]

Hunh, shows how much I know. I thought this was about the goon that threw rocks at Pale Male in NYC the other day.

:shrug

http://gothamist.com/2007/07/14/pale_male_attac.php

[Legend]

At least he wasn't having sex with the dogs.

Are you saying that Legend has sex with dogs, Vicki?

Don't you think he does? He showed some perverted cartoon where a woman was having sex with a dog.

lol wtf are you talking about valleygirl oh you mean that family guy clip you know damn well that wasn't the clip you just desribed,are you playing dumb or do you just do it for a living?

[jmt]

the nfl and the falcons need to step up and kick this punk out of the league.

i think vick very well could do jail time on this. if it was just the state going after him then i would say he will just get a slap on the wrist. but this is the feds, i'm sure they will do anything they can to nail his ass to the wall.




__________________________________________________ __________________________



I have a better idea.

How about we not jump to conclusions before we get all the facts and we get over a trial or to a plea.....IF this does go to trial and plea that is.



Everyone already screwed Michael Vick over with the "water bottle" incident, we already screwed those Duke boys.

So lets practice "lessons learned" ok.

conclusions?

well read the amount of evidence in the in the indictement and then see what you think.

bottom line is he was present at the dog fights, he purchased, sold, and transported dogs for the purpose of fighting, he wagered on the fights, and he funded the whole va dog fighting operation.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

JMT

sorry dude if OJ & MJ can get away with the shit they did Vick will be laughing on the 50 yard line in a few weeks, and to top it off he'll be paying those lawyer fees with dogfight money that was banked in the Cayman's

[jmt]

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[thewhiteSniper]

i think anyone who takes this as a joke to watch the vids they have shown of these dog fights...have a heart bitches....also innocent till proven guilty , lmfao

I bet you they will not convict him. If they couldnt convict OJ they will not be able to get a conviction on this.

[dderek123]

JMT

sorry dude if OJ & MJ can get away with the shit they did Vick will be laughing on the 50 yard line in a few weeks, and to top it off he'll be paying those lawyer fees with dogfight money that was banked in the Cayman's

yes he could very well come out of this without doing any jail time. still he will be suspended by the falcons and the league. the nfl is way to successful to let some scrambling hack with mediocre qb skills hurt their reputation. you can also be sure that he will be losing millions in endorsement money.

Agreed, plus Roger Goodell has been on the warpath lately. He has already suspended Pacman Jones (entire season), Tank Johnson (8 games) and Chris Henry (8 games) for what I would believe would be less serious crimes. Under Goodell the NFL is trying to clean up their image. And is doing it in a very aggressive way. So if I dont think that Vick will get off scott-free. If he does it won't make much sense considering the recent disciplinary events in the NFL.

[thewhiteSniper]

I bet they will not convict him on these charges.Thats what he gets for donating
his money to them Virgin tech victims. Dummy!!

[jmt]

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[Kabuki]

Wow...people are fast to convict Vick...even before a trial. I hope he is not guilty of these crimes. In his defense, he has a number of houses in Virginia. I could drive to his Mom's house right now....lol. It's possible that he didn't know what was going on. He has family members who still run the streets, so I rather trust Vick's claims over his cousin. Lets wait for the trial though.

As for the NFL, I don't know how he will play. Damn, I was going to wear my Vick jersey to my fantasy football draft. Oh well...I'll sport my favorite teams jersey...Washington Redskins baby 8)

[whatislove]

Omigod,

The first thing I thought of was Vicki and her dog!!! I mean she seems ok, but she is a performer after all. :)

Glad that little dog is ok!

[Teabagger Vance]

At least he wasn't having sex with the dogs.

Are you saying that Legend has sex with dogs, Vicki?

Don't you think he does? He showed some perverted cartoon where a woman was having sex with a dog.

This is not true. No dog would willingly have sex with Legend. That is an insult to all dogs!

[hondarobot]

At least he wasn't having sex with the dogs.

Are you saying that Legend has sex with dogs, Vicki?

Don't you think he does? He showed some perverted cartoon where a woman was having sex with a dog.

This is not true. No dog would willingly have sex with Legend. That is an insult to all dogs!

Legend stepped out of line, posted some things he shouldn't have, and he got slapped. He deserved it. What ya gonna do?

Who the hell are you "Teabagger"?

[Legend]

At least he wasn't having sex with the dogs.

Are you saying that Legend has sex with dogs, Vicki?

Don't you think he does? He showed some perverted cartoon where a woman was having sex with a dog.

This is not true. No dog would willingly have sex with Legend. That is an insult to all dogs!

You talk as if your fucking them don't worry buddy you can keep fucking your canines,i don't want any part of your sick fetish.

[Legend]

At least he wasn't having sex with the dogs.

Are you saying that Legend has sex with dogs, Vicki?

Don't you think he does? He showed some perverted cartoon where a woman was having sex with a dog.

This is not true. No dog would willingly have sex with Legend. That is an insult to all dogs!

Legend stepped out of line, posted some things he shouldn't have, and he got slapped. He deserved it. What ya gonna do?

Who the hell are you "Teabagger"?

"got slapped" LOL its gonna take more then a idiotic valleygirl or any of her pathetic lapdogs to slap me around.Frankly i'm not gonna tie down chef's post with this bullshit so if your master or any of her rejects wanna converse wtih me do it through pm.

[Teabagger Vance]

Legend stepped out of line, posted some things he shouldn't have, and he got slapped. He deserved it. What ya gonna do?

Who the hell are you "Teabagger"?

If Legend in His Own Mind is to be believed (Ha!), I am a random, generic ass-kisser. :P

[hondarobot]

At least he wasn't having sex with the dogs.

Are you saying that Legend has sex with dogs, Vicki?

Don't you think he does? He showed some perverted cartoon where a woman was having sex with a dog.

This is not true. No dog would willingly have sex with Legend. That is an insult to all dogs!

Legend stepped out of line, posted some things he shouldn't have, and he got slapped. He deserved it. What ya gonna do?

Who the hell are you "Teabagger"?

"got slapped" LOL its gonna take more then a idiotic valleygirl or any of her pathetic lapdogs to slap me around.Frankly i'm not gonna tie down chef's post with this bullshit so if your master or any of her rejects wanna converse wtih me do it through pm.

Oh for fucks sake. I'd beat the hell out of you and you know it. Just let the fucking thing go.

I'm trying to be helpfull.

[Teabagger Vance]

"got slapped" LOL its gonna take more then a idiotic valleygirl or any of her pathetic lapdogs to slap me around.

Hey, Legend in Your Own Mind. I crap bigger than you.


Frankly i'm not gonna tie down chef's post with this bullshit so if your master or any of her rejects wanna converse wtih me do it through pm.

Now, why in the world would anyone want to converse with you through PM?
Seriously?

[tubgirl]

he doesn't answer pm's anyway

[dderek123]

Wow...people are fast to convict Vick...even before a trial. I hope he is not guilty of these crimes. In his defense, he has a number of houses in Virginia. I could drive to his Mom's house right now....lol. It's possible that he didn't know what was going on. He has family members who still run the streets, so I rather trust Vick's claims over his cousin. Lets wait for the trial though.

As for the NFL, I don't know how he will play. Damn, I was going to wear my Vick jersey to my fantasy football draft. Oh well...I'll sport my favorite teams jersey...Washington Redskins baby 8)

If you read the details of the indictment (first post on this thread) then you may be just as quick to condemn him. Seems like the investigators are convinced that he was involved in dogfighting.
Innocent until proven guilty of course, we'll see how things go infront of a jury in the upcoming year.

[bassman2546]

If convicted, I hope the bastard rots in jail and then burns in hell. No place in the world for this and no one can convince me otherwise. If you try to sway me then that says a lot about you in a negative way. End of story. I've said my piece and that's it.

[DJ_Asia]

my 2 cents on the Michael Pri...err Vick situation...

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=23018

And BTW Ally u are right Terrell hasnt broken any laws yet although his half ass attemt at suicide last year was pathetic,and thus earns him a spot on the All-DJ Fuckwad Team.

[AlySinclair]

Hahahahahah! I forgot about that. That was hilarious! Good point, Dj. ^^



my 2 cents on the Michael Pri...err Vick situation...

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=23018

And BTW Ally u are right Terrell hasnt broken any laws yet although his half ass attemt at suicide last year was pathetic,and thus earns him a spot on the All-DJ Fuckwad Team.

[jmt]

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[jmt]

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[Solitary Brother]

JMT

sorry dude if OJ & MJ can get away with the shit they did Vick will be laughing on the 50 yard line in a few weeks, and to top it off he'll be paying those lawyer fees with dogfight money that was banked in the Cayman's

You are OH SO wrong my friend.
Michael Vick is beyond toast right now.
The feds brought this indictment against him NOT some hicks from Virginia.
I predict he WILL get jail time.
If that fucker were out here the animals rights people(crazies) who have whacked him already.
And........one of congressmen out here TOM LANTOS(a holcaust survivor and not a pussy) said if the feds dont do anything about this HE WILL.

This whole Michael Vick ordeal is a source of DAILY conversations at my job and MUCH laughter.

[PatrickFromNYC]

JMT

sorry dude if OJ & MJ can get away with the shit they did Vick will be laughing on the 50 yard line in a few weeks, and to top it off he'll be paying those lawyer fees with dogfight money that was banked in the Cayman's

You are OH SO wrong my friend.
Michael Vick is beyond toast right now.
The feds brought this indictment against him NOT some hicks from Virginia.
I predict he WILL get jail time.
If that fucker were out here the animals rights people(crazies) who have whacked him already.
And........one of congressmen out here TOM LANTOS(a holcaust survivor and not a pussy) said if the feds dont do anything about this HE WILL.

This whole Michael Vick ordeal is a source of DAILY conversations at my job and MUCH laughter.

Your right...Its the Feds and the Feds have 90% conviction rate....he's done

[jmt]

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[Legend]

Vick's gets special treatment because others have been suspended without being convicted(pacman jones)so now the league takes a we'll see how this will play out approach LOL give me fucking break,they just don't want to lose money on this thug.I think the protest by peta and others will put pressure on the league and falcons organization to do something.

[chefmike]

Things are heating up, and rightfully so...

***********

Sen. Robert Byrd on Dogfighting

In a floor speech Thursday, Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W. Va.) lashed out, indirectly, at Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who was recently charged with running a dog-fighting ring in Virginia. The speech might have seemed unusually apocalyptic to those who don't know how much the octogenarian senator loves dogs.

In biblical terms, Byrd -- wearing a navy-blue tie spotted with dog images -- attacked animal cruelty in ways that only he can.

"It is a brutal, sadistic event motivated by barbarism of the worst sort and cruelty of the worst, worst, worst, sadistic kind," Byrd said in a 24-minute address on the matter. "One is left wondering: Who are the real animals? Who are the real animals, who are the real animals -- the creatures inside the ring or the creatures outside the ring?"

Byrd did not specifically address the charges against Vick, a former Virginia Tech football star [We earlier said Vick was a graduate of VT. Vick actually left the school early to join the NFL. Thanks to readers for correcting our mistake], but attacked the nature of Vick's alleged crime in soaring rhetoric usually reserved for war speeches or Supreme Court confirmation battles: "The training of these poor creatures -- weigh those words -- the training of these poor creatures -- weigh them -- the training of these poor creatures to turn themselves into fighting machines is simply barbaric. Barbaric! Barbaric! Barbaric! Let that word resound from hill to hill and from mountain to mountain, from valley to valley across this broad land. Barbaric, barbaric!"

Byrd's love of dogs is a well known fact around the Senate. In April 2002, when his beloved dog Billy Byrd passed away, Byrd announced the death at an Appropriations Committee hearing, darkening the spirit of the Senate, whose galleries had heard the senator invoke his dog on many, many occasions. "I lost one of my best friends today," he said.

"The Book of Proverbs in the Holy Bible, the King James Bible, tells us a righteous man regardeth the life of his beast but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel," Byrd said. "The immortal Dante tells us the divine justice reserves special places in Hell for certain categories of sinners. Madam president, I am confident -- madam president, I am confident that the hottest places in Hell are reserved for the souls of sick and brutal people who hold God's creatures in such brutal and cruel contempt! I yield the floor."

********

Sharpton Weighs In On Vick, Dogfighting

ATLANTA -- The Rev. Al Sharpton teamed with PETA Wednesday to criticize dogfighting in a letter that went to all of Michael Vick's corporate sponsors.

The letter, signed by Sharpton, hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons and Ingrid Newkirk, president of PETA, went to Vick's sponsors, Falcons CEO Arthur Blank, and NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell.

"The recent media spotlight on dogfighting reminds us of society's callous disregard for the suffering of animals and disrespect for sentient beings," they wrote in letters that arrived by FedEx Wednesday morning.

"We hope that Mr. Vick is not a product of this insensitivity that runs through our society. ... It does us little good to prosecute just those who are famous and allow people across the country to continue to commit these hideous crimes. We are hopeful that authorities will take the appropriate action against anyone found guilty of an atrocity as serious as dogfighting ... . Today, we sound a clarion call to all people: Stand up for what is right, and speak out against what is wrong. Dogfighting is unacceptable. Hurting animals for human pleasure or gain is despicable. Cruelty is just plain wrong."

The statement comes on the heels of Michael Vick's indictment by a federal grand jury on a conspiracy charge related to his alleged involvement with dogfighting, including fatally hanging, drowning, and slamming against the ground dogs who "did not perform well."

The indictment follows an April 25 raid on Vick's property in Surry County, Va., during which authorities reportedly found 70 dogs--including at least 60 pit bulls, the breed that is most commonly used for fighting--and paraphernalia commonly associated with dogfighting. Some of the animals reportedly had deep wounds and cuts consistent with fighting.

The Simmons, Sharpton, and PETA letters went to all of Vick's corporate sponsors, including Nike, Rawlings, Hasbro, Easton Sports, and Kraft.

"Anyone capable of forcing dogs to fight to the death should be kept away from all vulnerable forms of life, particularly children and animals," said Newkirk. "Dogfighting is an illegal act that deserves harsh punishment, no matter how famous the alleged perpetrators are."

******

[Realgirls4me]

Great -- GREAT -- article on Vick and his generation. Is hip-hop to blame? We need more views such as the one espoused by this columnist. Let's get he dialogue going on this. Where are this generation's role models for African-American youth? The cowardly and selfish Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods, et all, have never stepped up on the activism front, so who is it going to be? Where is this generation's Muhammad Ali or Jim Brown?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/4A107E54CA14CDB18625731E00136DDF?OpenDocument


... As far as Vick's case is concerned, it's still innocent until proven guilty. Don't compare this to OJ's case. As far as I know, Vick has not fled in a white Bronco with a gun to his head yet. :)

[dderek123]

Great -- GREAT -- article on Vick and his generation. Is hip-hop to blame? We need more views such as the one espoused by this columnist. Let's get he dialogue going on this. Where are this generation's role models for African-American youth? The cowardly and selfish Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods, et all, have never stepped up on the activism front, so who is it going to be? Where is this generation's Muhammad Ali or Jim Brown?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/4A107E54CA14CDB18625731E00136DDF?OpenDocument


... As far as Vick's case is concerned, it's still innocent until proven guilty. Don't compare this to OJ's case. As far as I know, Vick has not fled in a white Bronco with a gun to his head yet. :)

woah wait a minute here, what did Jordan or Woods ever do wrong? how are they cowardly and selfish? Please validate that point.

[Realgirls4me]

Great -- GREAT -- article on Vick and his generation. Is hip-hop to blame? We need more views such as the one espoused by this columnist. Let's get he dialogue going on this. Where are this generation's role models for African-American youth? The cowardly and selfish Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods, et all, have never stepped up on the activism front, so who is it going to be? Where is this generation's Muhammad Ali or Jim Brown?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/4A107E54CA14CDB18625731E00136DDF?OpenDocument


... As far as Vick's case is concerned, it's still innocent until proven guilty. Don't compare this to OJ's case. As far as I know, Vick has not fled in a white Bronco with a gun to his head yet. :)

woah wait a minute here, what did Jordan or Woods ever do wrong? how are they cowardly and selfish? Please validate that point.

A better question would be what have they ever done to warrant icon status ? What makes either above reproach? Why are they considered "heroes" by so many? Can either of them comment on anything else outside of their respective sport or detached bling laden world ? Do you think they even know what social or political activism is? When has Jordan or Woods ever acknowledged the doors opened by previous African-Americans who basically set the table for them? Do you think they care? Read the following which I clipped from Wikipedia:

In both 1990 and 1996, Helms won against Harvey Gantt, the former mayor of Charlotte. Both campaigns attracted major national attention not only because of Helms' national prominence and controversial positions on many issues, but also because Gantt was an African-American whose race and moderate-to-liberal political views provided a stark contrast to Helms. Helms' 1990 victory has been partially credited to a late-running television commercial which urged white voters to reject Gantt because of the Democratic candidate's support for affirmative action programs. The ad showed a white man's hands ripping up a rejection notice from a company which had not hired him due to affirmative action policies which had given the job to a black person. The ad was the brainchild of Dick Morris, who in the 1990's would become a key political advisor to President Bill Clinton. Helms won the 1990 election by 1,087,331 votes (52.5 percent) to Gantt's 981,573 (47.4 percent). In his 1990 victory statement, Helms mocked the major North Carolina newspapers for their unhappiness over his victory, quoting a line from "Casey at the Bat": "There's no joy in Mudville tonight."

Many political observers posited that if Jordan had come out and endorsed Gantt, that he could have possibly beaten Helms (You do know who Jesse Helms is, right?). Do you remember what Jordan's comments were? How about, "Republicans buy shoes too". How does that square off against what an Ali, or what Carlos and Smith did? Has either Jordan or Woods ever come out of their advisor driven world to try to make a difference in the world for their people? Ever?

Care for more examples?

[Legend]

Great -- GREAT -- article on Vick and his generation. Is hip-hop to blame? We need more views such as the one espoused by this columnist. Let's get he dialogue going on this. Where are this generation's role models for African-American youth? The cowardly and selfish Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods, et all, have never stepped up on the activism front, so who is it going to be? Where is this generation's Muhammad Ali or Jim Brown?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/4A107E54CA14CDB18625731E00136DDF?OpenDocument


... As far as Vick's case is concerned, it's still innocent until proven guilty. Don't compare this to OJ's case. As far as I know, Vick has not fled in a white Bronco with a gun to his head yet. :)

woah wait a minute here, what did Jordan or Woods ever do wrong? how are they cowardly and selfish? Please validate that point.

A better question would be what have they ever done to warrant icon status ? Why are they considered "heroes" by so many? Can either of them comment on anything else outside of their respective sport or detached bling laden world ? Do you think they even know what social or political activism is? When has Jordan or Woods ever acknowledged the doors opened by previous African-Americans who basically set the table for them? Do you think they care? Read the following which I clipped from Wikipedia:

In both 1990 and 1996, Helms won against Harvey Gantt, the former mayor of Charlotte. Both campaigns attracted major national attention not only because of Helms' national prominence and controversial positions on many issues, but also because Gantt was an African-American whose race and moderate-to-liberal political views provided a stark contrast to Helms. Helms' 1990 victory has been partially credited to a late-running television commercial which urged white voters to reject Gantt because of the Democratic candidate's support for affirmative action programs. The ad showed a white man's hands ripping up a rejection notice from a company which had not hired him due to affirmative action policies which had given the job to a black person. The ad was the brainchild of Dick Morris, who in the 1990's would become a key political advisor to President Bill Clinton. Helms won the 1990 election by 1,087,331 votes (52.5 percent) to Gantt's 981,573 (47.4 percent). In his 1990 victory statement, Helms mocked the major North Carolina newspapers for their unhappiness over his victory, quoting a line from "Casey at the Bat": "There's no joy in Mudville tonight."

Many political observers posited that if Jordan had come out and endorsed Gantt, that he could have possibly beaten Helms (You do know who Jesse Helms is, right?). Do you remember what Jordan's comments were? How about, "Republicans buy shoes too". How does that square off against what an Ali, or what Carlos and Smith did? Has either Jordan or Woods ever come out of their advisor driven world to try to make a difference in the world for their people? Ever?

Care for more examples?


They are consider icons because each excelled in their sport,they are fucking athletes not political activist of any sort,i think people respect them more for not throwing their political opinions in the public's face.Jordan and woods are so fucking illrelevant to this vick situation i question why you even bring them up.

[Oli]

How about,"Republicans buy shoes too". How does that square off against what an Ali, or what Carlos and Smith did? Has either Jordan or Woods ever come out of their advisor driven world to try to make a difference in the world for their people? Ever?

I couldn't agree more. Ali and Brown used their celebrity to point out the the inequities in America, and the problems as they saw them. Did they let their fear of losing money or status dissuade them? No, Ali gave up his title and millions for a moral stand. Were they always right? No, but in the long run their stands on social and political issues sparked debate and moved the country forward. Woods and Jordan both have an Ali sized soapbox to stand on, and they use it to sell sneakers, underwear and Buicks. Ah, the power of the almighty dollar, and the how small our 'heroes' have become .

[Realgirls4me]

They are consider icons because each excelled in their sport,they are fucking athletes not political activist of any sort,i think people respect them more for not throwing their political opinions in the public's face.Jordan and woods are so fucking illrelevant to this vick situation i question why you even bring them up.

You really are 13 aren't you, Legend? How else could you possibly see what I'm attempting to get at? Are you really that stupid? Didn't Ali excel in his sport? How about Jackie Robinson or Jim Brown? Why can Bill Russell speak so eloquently, but Michael Vick can't? Do you even know who Curt Flood is, or who Tommy Smith or John Carlos are and what they did? Kids have gotten beaten up and even killed over Jordan products and you don't think he owes kids a public announcement on curbing the violence, among other issues? I think indifferent cowardly clowns such as Woods and Jordan are part of the problem. By not saying anything, they are making a statement, particularly a self interest one.


Why am I even responding to you? You're irrelevant.





I couldn't agree more. Ali and Brown used their celebrity to point out the the inequities in America, and the problems as they saw them. Did they let their fear of losing money or status dissuade them? No, Ali gave up his title and millions for a moral stand. Were they always right? No, but in the long run their stands on social and political issues sparked debate and moved the country forward. Woods and Jordan both have an Ali sized soapbox to stand on, and they use it to sell sneakers, underwear and Buicks. Ah, the power of the almighty dollar, and the how small our 'heroes' have become .

Very well put, Oli. Both Woods and Jordan are the hollowest of the hollow. I remember seeing Ali confront a congressman over the war and poverty on the Mike Douglas show once. Those guys walked the walk. Those are true heroes!

[Legend]

They are consider icons because each excelled in their sport,they are fucking athletes not political activist of any sort,i think people respect them more for not throwing their political opinions in the public's face.Jordan and woods are so fucking illrelevant to this vick situation i question why you even bring them up.

You really are 13 aren't you, Legend? How else could you possibly see what I'm attempting to get at? Are you really that stupid? Didn't Ali excel in his sport? How about Jackie Robinson or Jim Brown? Why can Bill Russell speak so eloquently, but Michael Vick can't? Do you even know who Curt Flood is, or who Tommy Smith or John Carlos are and what they did? Kids have gotten beaten up and even killed over Jordan products and you don't think he owes kids a public announcement on curbing the violence, among other issues? I think indifferent cowardly clowns such as Woods and Jordan are part of the problem. By not saying anything, they are making a statement, particularly a self interest one.


Why am I even responding to you? You're irrelevant.





I couldn't agree more. Ali and Brown used their celebrity to point out the the inequities in America, and the problems as they saw them. Did they let their fear of losing money or status dissuade them? No, Ali gave up his title and millions for a moral stand. Were they always right? No, but in the long run their stands on social and political issues sparked debate and moved the country forward. Woods and Jordan both have an Ali sized soapbox to stand on, and they use it to sell sneakers, underwear and Buicks. Ah, the power of the almighty dollar, and the how small our 'heroes' have become .

Very well put, Oli. Both Woods and Jordan are the hollowest of the hollow. I remember seeing Ali confront a congressman over the war and poverty on the Mike Douglas show once. Those guys walked the walk. Those are true heroes!


Dude that's nothing but self righteous bolonga,those guys don't owe the public shit but to entertain us by doing their job nothing more nothing less.If i wanted political opinions i would turned on cnn or some other news channel i wouldn't look for it through basketball of golf players.All those guys you named are from the 80's or 70's and haven't gone through the hip hop era where stuff like dog fighting and drugs are glorified so one would think they would stand up for certain issues.Just keep thinking those guys of today owe you something and watch the problem get worse.

BTW its up to parents,teachers to teach kids not overpayed athletes.

[Realgirls4me]

Dude that's nothing but self righteous bolonga,those guys don't owe the public shit but to entertain us by doing their job nothing more nothing less.If i wanted political opinions i would turned on cnn or some other news channel i wouldn't look for it through basketball of golf players.All those guys you named are from the 80's or 70's and haven't gone through the hip hop era where stuff like dog fighting and drugs are glorified so one would think they would stand up for certain issues.Just keep thinking those guys of today owe you something and watch the problem get worse.

BTW its up to parents,teachers to teach kids not overpayed athletes.

Heard over a loudspeaker:

" Will the parents of an unruly 13 year old rearranging the baby formula on aisle 12 please come and claim your child. Thank you."



:screwy

[Legend]

Dude that's nothing but self righteous bolonga,those guys don't owe the public shit but to entertain us by doing their job nothing more nothing less.If i wanted political opinions i would turned on cnn or some other news channel i wouldn't look for it through basketball of golf players.All those guys you named are from the 80's or 70's and haven't gone through the hip hop era where stuff like dog fighting and drugs are glorified so one would think they would stand up for certain issues.Just keep thinking those guys of today owe you something and watch the problem get worse.

BTW its up to parents,teachers to teach kids not overpayed athletes.

Heard over a loudspeaker:

" Will the parents of an unruly 13 year old rearranging the baby formula on aisle 12 please come and claim your child. Thank you."



:screwy


I'm the child but yet you need someone to reassure you that something is bad,whatever douchebag.Just keep thinking those guys owe you something.

[Realgirls4me]

Dude that's nothing but self righteous bolonga,those guys don't owe the public shit but to entertain us by doing their job nothing more nothing less.If i wanted political opinions i would turned on cnn or some other news channel i wouldn't look for it through basketball of golf players.All those guys you named are from the 80's or 70's and haven't gone through the hip hop era where stuff like dog fighting and drugs are glorified so one would think they would stand up for certain issues.Just keep thinking those guys of today owe you something and watch the problem get worse.

BTW its up to parents,teachers to teach kids not overpayed athletes.

Heard over a loudspeaker:

" Will the parents of an unruly 13 year old rearranging the baby formula on aisle 12 please come and claim your child. Thank you."



:screwy


I'm the child but yet you need someone to reassure you that something is bad,whatever douchebag.Just keep thing those guys owe you something.

Legend: Do you really want me to bitchslap here in front of everyone ? It isn't a question of whether I can, but whether I think you are worth the time in doing so.

[Kabuki]

I was just wondering when hip-hop glorified dog fighting? As a fan of many genres of music, including hip-hop, I've never heard anyone say lets start some underground dog fights. It's a fact that dog fighting is just becoming popular in the ghetto. Like drugs, guns, and liquor stores, who brought this illegal sport into the urban areas? Wake-up people, and look at the product of bad influences. The African-American community gets bashed more than anything as of late. The media loves to fuel the bashing, and more and more stereotypes develop in today's society.

I also hate how all African-Americans are grouped into one category. Urban misfits. I guess that it's a fluke that people like Oprah or Obama made it in this world. I hate the arguments about why the urban areas can't change. Well, if you ever lived in an urban area, you would understand. It's a sociology issue. You have to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education. The average ignorant individual will raise another individual. It's hard to bring about change when ignorance is all you see. And can we face facts here, urban areas have the worst schools in the states. The worst funding in the states.

As for Vick, I love how people assume he's guilty. Without a trial. Personally, I would like to hear facts over everyone's opinions. Can we go to trial first?

I'm just really frustrated with a lot arguments now days. All hip-hop isn't bad. Some black people don't even listen to hip-hop. I swear...I'm just annoyed with the world. I'm annoyed with the state of the rap and hip-hop industry as well. Another fact to face though, corporate America pushes the type of rap and hip-hop that many people complain about. Radio stations, MTV and BET are controlled by these corporations. White America spends more money on the corporate pushed music. A fact. There is underground hip-hop that educates. There's even a wave of Christian hip-hop rising. You will never hear these songs though. Lets address who really condones the music.

By the way, I'll end my rambling after I say one more thing. People and the media want Vick to be guilty. They should just go ahead and say it. Ok...I'm done. Coherent or not. I really don't care.

[Realgirls4me]

I was just wondering when hip-hop glorified dog fighting? As a fan of many genres of music, including hip-hop, I've never heard anyone say lets start some underground dog fights. It's a fact that dog fighting is just becoming popular in the ghetto. Like drugs, guns, and liquor stores, who brought this illegal sport into the urban areas? Wake-up people, and look at the product of bad influences. The African-American community gets bashed more than anything as of late. The media loves to fuel the bashing, and more and more stereotypes develop in today's society.

Kabuki,

I don't think the columnist was attempting a full scale assault on all of hip-hop, just its warts. He was after the shallow, hollow, dark side of hip-hop that suggests one can achieve success without hard work and effort, and that the images that accompany thuggery, misogyny, and bling are things to genuflect to, among many other things. The writer contrasts the current world of the Michael Vick's alledged dog fighting, with past African-American athletes of substance and depth who aimed a hell of a lot higher than having their dogs square off for money in their back yards. In other words, is hip-hop part of the problem with what it considers important or glorifies? Having dog fights is a big step backwards for someone today earning 100 million dollars, don't ya think?

I agree. Like I said in my first post here in this thread, I think people should put down their torches and allow this man his time in court. He is innocent until proven guilty in this country, or so I thought? Did Bush fuck that up too?

[Kabuki]

I was just wondering when hip-hop glorified dog fighting? As a fan of many genres of music, including hip-hop, I've never heard anyone say lets start some underground dog fights. It's a fact that dog fighting is just becoming popular in the ghetto. Like drugs, guns, and liquor stores, who brought this illegal sport into the urban areas? Wake-up people, and look at the product of bad influences. The African-American community gets bashed more than anything as of late. The media loves to fuel the bashing, and more and more stereotypes develop in today's society.

Kabuki,

I don't think the columnist was attempting a full scale assault on all of hip-hop, just its warts. He was after the shallow, hollow, dark side of hip-hop that suggests one can achieve success without hard work and effort, and that the images that accompany thuggery, misogyny, and bling are things to genuflect to, among many other things. The writer contrasts the current world of the Michael Vick's alledged dog fighting, with past African-American athletes of substance and depth who aimed a hell of a lot higher than having their dogs square off for money in their back yards. In other words, is hip-hop part of the problem with what it considers important or glorifies? Having dog fights is a big step backwards for someone today earning 100 million dollars, don't ya think?

I agree. Like I said in my first post here in this thread, I think people should put down their torches and allow this man his time in court. He is innocent until proven guilty in this country, or so I thought? Did Bush fuck that up too?

I was really just being general. Based off the path that this thread was going, I believed that I had to get some thoughts out of my head. Especially with the massive debates of all these issues on-line as of late. I understand that certain hip-hop can be an issue. No one addresses the changes that people are trying to make in the industry. Or the work that doesn't glorify bad behavior.

[chefmike]

Goodell Orders Vick Out of Training Camp

Michael Vick Ordered to Stay Out of Training Camp While NFL Reviews Dogfighting Charges

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=3406806

[clockworkHolden]

Guilty or not, the "Michael Vick Experience" is over. Forget about the lost endorsements. He has lost his entire career. Being banned from training camp is just the beginning of the end. And honestly, if he even just had knowledge of the happenings on his property (though he probably participated fully), he deserves everything that is coming his way and a lot more. But, he represents more than this heinous subculture. He is a perfect representation in the world of public opinion that you are guilty until proven innocent.

[chefmike]

Those like myself with ties to Virginia Tech are not surprised by these allegations. The Vick brothers and their cohorts are well-known as thug wannabees who think that they can get away with anything.

And yes, I think that he's guilty as hell, and I also think that people who abuse animals belong there.

[jmt]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[clockworkHolden]

The end of the road for Vick is when the Falcons release him. That will be the last action taken against him because salary cap implications will prevent them from doing so until, at the very earliest, the end of this coming season.

[chefmike]

Stick a fork in Vick, he's done...

Vick faces courthouse known for speed, fairness, tough sentences

When Michael Vick walks into the old gray brick building at 1000 East Main Street in Richmond, Va., on Thursday afternoon, he will enter a federal courthouse that features trials that are quick and fair and sentences that can be harsh.

Facing charges that he participated for six years in a dogfighting scheme, Vick also must battle issues of celebrity and notoriety as well as the savagery described in the indictment filed against him last week.

The judge presiding over the Vick case is U.S. District Court Judge Henry Hudson, a former prosecutor who was appointed to the federal bench by President George W. Bush in 2002.

"I love the trials before Judge Hudson, but I hate the sentences," observed one experienced and highly regarded Richmond defense lawyer. "He will let you try your case, he will give you every chance to offer a defense, but if you're convicted, you will be facing serious problems at sentencing."

The lawyer, who requested anonymity because of a possible involvement in Vick's defense, explained that Hudson takes a unique approach to the guidelines that are a part of sentencing decisions in federal courts throughout the U.S.


"Most judges start at the minimum and move up or down in small increments. Judge Hudson starts at the midpoint of the guidelines spectrum and moves toward the maximum. The result can be surprisingly harsh."

The charges against Vick provide for a maximum jail sentence of six years and up to $350,000 in fines.

Although several experienced defense lawyers contacted by ESPN.com agreed that Vick can expect the fairest of trials, they warned that there will be significant problems, especially if the case is tried before a jury.

Vick and his lawyers will tell Hudson on Thursday whether they want a jury trial. The brutality of the charges might lead Vick to ask for a bench trial in which Hudson would decide whether Vick is guilty. If Vick wishes to waive his right to a jury trial, his three co-defendants must agree. But the prosecution also has a right to a jury trial and may insist that the nasty allegations against Vick and three others be presented to a jury. If one side, or one co-defendant, insists on a jury trial, then there will be a jury trial. Even a federal judge cannot order a jury trial if the prosecutor and defendants all waive their rights to a jury trial.

"If it's a jury trial, his problem will not be that he is a black man accused in Richmond. His problem will be his notoriety and the publicity about the charges," observed David Baugh, a highly regarded African-American attorney who has tried cases in Virginia for 32 years both as a prosecutor and a defense lawyer.

Baugh added, "It will be difficult to find jurors who have not heard about the dogs and what was done to them. Many possible jurors will have made up their minds just hearing about what was done to the dogs."

Baugh and others also explained that the jury pool for Vick's trial will include citizens from a large area of Virginia ranging from Williamsburg through Richmond to Fredericksburg.

"There will be a few jurors from urban areas, but most of the members of the venire [pool of potential jurors] will be from rural and suburban areas," observed another experienced defense attorney who requested anonymity because of other cases pending in the Richmond courthouse. "The vast majority of the jurors will be white."

Although it is unusual for federal prosecutors to insist on a jury trial when the accused is willing to allow a judge to decide guilt or innocence, the lawyers contacted by ESPN.com agreed that the prosecutors in Richmond may insist on a jury trial.

"The charges in the indictment are borderline pornographic in their brutality," said one defense lawyer. "All of the jury appeal is on the side of the prosecutors. There is no reason for them to give that away in a case that everyone is watching."


Lester Munson, a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years, is a Senior Writer for ESPN.com.

[chefmike]

Hokie faithful re-examining feelings about Michael Vick


“At this point, it’s not like there’s something wrong with Virginia Tech. It’s more like, ‘What’s wrong with that family?’
The Virginian-Pilot

Six years ago, Michael Vick came to Jerry Diffell’s store in downtown Blacksburg, Va., for a press conference. With his No. 7 jerseys hanging on retail racks around him, Vick announced the start of his own clothing line, the proceeds of which would go to Virginia Tech.

It was a proud day for Diffell, who has owned and operated the Tech Bookstore since 1986 and who watched Vick’s star rise during Tech’s run to the national championship game in 1999.

Pride was not on the menu last week, as Diffell sat at PK’s, a sports bar in Blacksburg, for a business luncheon on Tuesday. “All the TVs, on CNN and ESPN, kept flashing Michael Vick,” he said.

The Atlanta Falcons’ quarterback was indicted that day by a federal grand jury on a conspiracy charge that he helped create an interstate dogfighting operation.

“He’s done some good for this place,” Diffell said by phone on Wednesday. “But this news is bad, it’s sad, because he really did put us on the map. He was a hero to everybody at Virginia Tech, and you hate to see your heroes be knocked down.”

Vick’s name is synonymous with the Virginia Tech football program. His two seasons as the team’s electric quarterback helped elevate the Hokies’ national profile.

Vick’s jersey hangs in Lane Stadium. His picture appears four times in the first 12 pages of last season’s football media guide. His name, coach Frank Beamer has said, has gotten the coaching staff into the living rooms of top recruits. At the Merryman Center, home of Tech’s athletic offices, Vick’s likeness is on a set of double doors leading to Michael Vick Hall.

But lately, those inside the Merryman Center aren’t talking about Vick. The football coaching staff has declined comment since his indictment. Carmela Smith, administrative assistant for Jim Weaver, said Friday the athletic director would have no comment.

“He’s not a student-athlete of ours, so there’s no need to comment,” Smith said.

“What’s there to say?” asked Ryan Ruggero, manager of Top of the Stairs, a Blacksburg watering hole that brims with Hokie fans after every home game. “Sure, everybody that comes in here has talked about it. But it’s not a long conversation. There’s not much to talk about. We went through this with his brother, so we know the deal.

“At this point, it’s not like there’s something wrong with Virginia Tech. It’s more like, ‘What’s wrong with that family?’ “

Marcus Vick followed in his older brother’s footsteps as a starting quarterback for the Hokies, but his stay in Blacksburg was tumultuous. He spent one season suspended after multiple arrests and was later booted from the team after stomping on an opponent on national TV.

“For all the grief Marcus brought upon Virginia Tech, I was always comforted to know that Mike was a different person,” said Michael Willis, a 2001 Tech graduate, Annandale resident and season-ticket holder. “But now...”

the entire article-
http://www.theolympian.com/sports/story/170718.html

[Realgirls4me]

Emmit Smith posited the other night on ESPN that the feds were using Vick as their big fallguy/example in order to catch more of these asses who engage in this practice year round. That is, that Vick will lead them to a larger network. I dunno.

Gotta run, sorry I didn't provide a link.

Link:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ap-hall-smith-vick&prov=ap&type=lgns

[tsafficianado]

at 4pm press conference owner Blank stated that the team had drawn up a letter of suspension for 4 weeks but received instruction from the league to postpone any team action until the league completes its investigation.

certainly vick is entitled to his day in court.....and after he is convicted he is entitled to 4 or 5 years in a cell.

i don't know the legalities, but i would assume that if the league bans him then the falcons can get out from under the countract....that would seem to be the most equitable solution.

you have to wonder about the mentality of someone who would risk $50-$100 million to exercise their inclination to brutalize a few dogs.

[Realgirls4me]

you have to wonder about the mentality of someone who would risk $50-$100 million to exercise their inclination to brutalize a few dogs.

What Smith said in that link I provided says a lot about Vick too:

...But Smith also placed some blame on Vick, saying athletes need to realize they have to break ties with some people from their past "because where we're going, it's not for everybody to come with us. You have to learn to cut some of those guys loose. Because the things that they do, we cannot do no more."

This whole mess also reminds me of my favorite John Donne quote, particularly the latter part:

Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

There are responsibilities and obligations that come with being a highly paid, highly profile superstar. African-American athletes of the past understood the concepts of giving back and standing for something decent, honorable, and worthwhile. They recognized that they were role models too, as it simply came with the territory. Sadly, it seems that athletes such as Vick not only did not go to class while in college (Would a college educated, enlightened man engage in such savage practices?), but that vast amounts of millions cannot buy class, good judgement, or intelligence. Today it's all about the glam and bling with guys such as Vick. We need to have more kids wear the jerseys of, and emulate players such as Warrick Dunn I say, both on and off the field.

Once again, do not compare this case with OJ's case. Give this man his day in court before publically convicting him.

[Legend]

Preseason is just the beginning for Vick
Adam Schein


Roger Goodell told Michael Vick Monday night to stay away from Falcons training camp until his office has completed a thorough review of his indictment.

Here's the translation and what must be going on during Goodell's inner-monologue: "Mike, you are banned from camp. Mike, you are an embarrassment. Mike, you are a major distraction to the league and to the Atlanta players, coaches, and management. Mike, you lied to my face before the NFL draft when we talked about these allegations. You told me I had nothing to worry about. Then three months later you get indicted? PETA protestors are outside my office and the Falcons offices. And frankly, they are right."

As we said last week, this was the only decision for Goodell to make.

You cannot say enough about Goodell as a commissioner. He cares deeply about the way the NFL athletes and the league are portrayed. Goodell, as he told me face-to-face during the draft, places a premium on character and NFL players and coaches behaving like model citizens.

Thus, you can write this one down: Vick being banished from camp will be a precursor to the quarterback getting suspended for violating the league's code of conduct policy.


I firmly believe Vick will never play another down for the Falcons.

I am not saying that Vick will be found guilty of the despicable, cruel, cowardly, gut-wrenching charges thrust upon him by the federal government. Nobody knows what will happen in a court of law. Ask O.J.

But we do know that Vick has violated the code of conduct policy in the NFL. That's crystal clear. And remember, you do not have to be found guilty or sentenced to embarrass the NFL, which the Falcons quarterback has clearly done. And there is obvious and recent precedent here. Goodell suspended Adam "Pacman" Jones before the justice system found him guilty or innocent. Read the code of conduct policy. Read it carefully. Talking to league and legal sources, Vick getting suspended is the only logical conclusion.

And when you talk to players around the league, including a conversation with Matt Lehr, Vick's former teammate in Atlanta and at Virginia Tech, they all anticipate a suspension.

Think about it.

The allegations contained in the 18 page indictment place Vick at the house in question, have him involved in the disgusting killing of dogs. Vick was also allegedly involved in setting up rape stands for the dogs and running the poor, innocent dogs through practice fights.

I'm sick just writing this.

That alone violates the code of conduct policy.

But the indictment also describes the exchange of money from Vick's hands, pending the result of a dog fight.

This act is commonly called gambling, another way to embarrass the NFL shield.

Goodell has full autonomy when it comes to these issues. The power given to the commissioner's office was collectively bargained by the owners and the players. Even if a suspension is handed down and the union wants to appeal, it is heard by Mr. Goodell himself.

And legal analysts also say that without question Vick has already violated the "conduct detrimental to the team" clause that is in every player's contract.

PETA has every right to protest. And Goodell knows that the league, and its television partners, could be financially compromised the minute advertisers decide they don't want a piece of the proverbial pie.
Any way you want to slice it, I really don't believe Vick will play in 2007.

I'm telling you, Roger Goodell, the anti-Bud Selig who won't bury his head in the sand on important issues, won't let him.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7054392

I agree it's over for vick,he won't play another down for the falcons or nfl for that matter over this.People can't blame anyone but micheal vick not his family,freinds or the fbi,he abused and tourtured animal's for his own sick entertainment and profited off it and now he is going to pay the price. And enough with this give him his day in court all the nfl needs is allegations just look at pacman jones they booted him without a trial.

[Kabuki]

Preseason is just the beginning for Vick
Adam Schein


Roger Goodell told Michael Vick Monday night to stay away from Falcons training camp until his office has completed a thorough review of his indictment.

Here's the translation and what must be going on during Goodell's inner-monologue: "Mike, you are banned from camp. Mike, you are an embarrassment. Mike, you are a major distraction to the league and to the Atlanta players, coaches, and management. Mike, you lied to my face before the NFL draft when we talked about these allegations. You told me I had nothing to worry about. Then three months later you get indicted? PETA protestors are outside my office and the Falcons offices. And frankly, they are right."

As we said last week, this was the only decision for Goodell to make.

You cannot say enough about Goodell as a commissioner. He cares deeply about the way the NFL athletes and the league are portrayed. Goodell, as he told me face-to-face during the draft, places a premium on character and NFL players and coaches behaving like model citizens.

Thus, you can write this one down: Vick being banished from camp will be a precursor to the quarterback getting suspended for violating the league's code of conduct policy.


I firmly believe Vick will never play another down for the Falcons.

I am not saying that Vick will be found guilty of the despicable, cruel, cowardly, gut-wrenching charges thrust upon him by the federal government. Nobody knows what will happen in a court of law. Ask O.J.

But we do know that Vick has violated the code of conduct policy in the NFL. That's crystal clear. And remember, you do not have to be found guilty or sentenced to embarrass the NFL, which the Falcons quarterback has clearly done. And there is obvious and recent precedent here. Goodell suspended Adam "Pacman" Jones before the justice system found him guilty or innocent. Read the code of conduct policy. Read it carefully. Talking to league and legal sources, Vick getting suspended is the only logical conclusion.

And when you talk to players around the league, including a conversation with Matt Lehr, Vick's former teammate in Atlanta and at Virginia Tech, they all anticipate a suspension.

Think about it.

The allegations contained in the 18 page indictment place Vick at the house in question, have him involved in the disgusting killing of dogs. Vick was also allegedly involved in setting up rape stands for the dogs and running the poor, innocent dogs through practice fights.

I'm sick just writing this.

That alone violates the code of conduct policy.

But the indictment also describes the exchange of money from Vick's hands, pending the result of a dog fight.

This act is commonly called gambling, another way to embarrass the NFL shield.

Goodell has full autonomy when it comes to these issues. The power given to the commissioner's office was collectively bargained by the owners and the players. Even if a suspension is handed down and the union wants to appeal, it is heard by Mr. Goodell himself.

And legal analysts also say that without question Vick has already violated the "conduct detrimental to the team" clause that is in every player's contract.

PETA has every right to protest. And Goodell knows that the league, and its television partners, could be financially compromised the minute advertisers decide they don't want a piece of the proverbial pie.
Any way you want to slice it, I really don't believe Vick will play in 2007.

I'm telling you, Roger Goodell, the anti-Bud Selig who won't bury his head in the sand on important issues, won't let him.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7054392

I agree it's over for vick,he won't play another down for the falcons or nfl for that matter over this.People can't blame anyone but micheal vick not his family,freinds or the fbi,he abused and tourtured animal's for his own sick entertainment and profited off it and now he is going to pay the price. And enough with this give him his day in court all the nfl needs is allegations just look at pacman jones they booted him without a trial.

As for preseason, Vick is still getting paid. Training camp or no training camp. Vick being banned from camp was a good public relation move for the NFL. People are happy, but Vick still gets paid. Vick's future in the NFL will be decided after the trial. A fact. Pacman Jones has been in so much trouble, so that's why he was suspended.

I don't understand why people are quick to judge Vick? There is a possibility that he wasn't involved. Vick has to be guilty though. America wants Vick to be guilty. I'll keep saying that until the end.

[mph]

Vick will do no time, might get a heavy slap on the wrist, but in this country where men & women get away with murder of other 'humans' based on trial technicalities on a daily basis.........................not a chance. Now his partners in crime might do some time behind bars, but Vick at best will get community service and a huge lawyers fee.
Unfortunately, you're quite possibly right.

This is some of the sickest shit I've ever heard of (the worst being step-by-step photos of two motherfuckers killing a cat, slowly).

I hope they all get what's coming to them.

[Legend]

Micheal vick pleaded not guilty today and he is most likely done this season.

Something that creeped me the fuck out was that they said he split the skulls of the animals WTF give that sick bastard at least 50 years.

[jmt]

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[beatmaker]

Those like myself with ties to Virginia Tech are not surprised by these allegations. The Vick brothers and their cohorts are well-known as thug wannabees who think that they can get away with anything.

And yes, I think that he's guilty as hell, and I also think that people who abuse animals belong there.

Chefmike, I wonder if you feel the same way about U.S Vice President Dick Cheney going hunting to kill innocent deers, so he can sit around in study, smoking Cuban cigars, sipping expensive cognac, while feeling like a real man admiring his "kill" mounted on the wall. Trust, if all of Cheney's dirt came to light, his shit would give the word "thug" new meaning. Personally, I think America is infested with self-righteous hypocrites, who are full of shit. Reminds me of the scene from "American Pimp" were a former L.A pimp named Rosebudd talked about how he's vilified for being a pimp, yet the white man who owns the "Bunny Ranch" in Nevada is called a "businessman", when they both are selling women's bodies for men's sexual gratification.

All I have to say is these brothas with these multi-million dollar athletic contracts and endorsement deals, better wake the fuck up and realize what's happening. There is a lot of bitterness and resentment festering about their inflated contracts, hip-hop swagger and lifestyles of excess and waste among the mainstream fanbases, who for the most part don't look like them and can't relate to their lifestyles, especially since many work 9-5 jobs and earn modest incomes.

[beatmaker]

I was just wondering when hip-hop glorified dog fighting? As a fan of many genres of music, including hip-hop, I've never heard anyone say lets start some underground dog fights. It's a fact that dog fighting is just becoming popular in the ghetto. Like drugs, guns, and liquor stores, who brought this illegal sport into the urban areas? Wake-up people, and look at the product of bad influences. The African-American community gets bashed more than anything as of late. The media loves to fuel the bashing, and more and more stereotypes develop in today's society.

I also hate how all African-Americans are grouped into one category. Urban misfits. I guess that it's a fluke that people like Oprah or Obama made it in this world. I hate the arguments about why the urban areas can't change. Well, if you ever lived in an urban area, you would understand. It's a sociology issue. You have to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education. The average ignorant individual will raise another individual. It's hard to bring about change when ignorance is all you see. And can we face facts here, urban areas have the worst schools in the states. The worst funding in the states.

As for Vick, I love how people assume he's guilty. Without a trial. Personally, I would like to hear facts over everyone's opinions. Can we go to trial first?

I'm just really frustrated with a lot arguments now days. All hip-hop isn't bad. Some black people don't even listen to hip-hop. I swear...I'm just annoyed with the world. I'm annoyed with the state of the rap and hip-hop industry as well. Another fact to face though, corporate America pushes the type of rap and hip-hop that many people complain about. Radio stations, MTV and BET are controlled by these corporations. White America spends more money on the corporate pushed music. A fact. There is underground hip-hop that educates. There's even a wave of Christian hip-hop rising. You will never hear these songs though. Lets address who really condones the music.

By the way, I'll end my rambling after I say one more thing. People and the media want Vick to be guilty. They should just go ahead and say it. Ok...I'm done. Coherent or not. I really don't care.

Amen! I hate to say it, but you have more sense and perspective, than many of my fellow African-Americans, who are just LOST mentally, intellectually, spiritually and culturally. Too many have succumbed to the culture of ignorance, that has negatively hovered over our community like a dark cloud.

Quoting Harvard professor and civil rights activist Carter G. Woodson's seminal work "Miseducation of the Negro", 'If a man comes to your front door and you tell him to go around to the back door enough times, eventually he will go to the back door without being told". Wonder why so many young African-Americans prefer to sit at the back of the bus nowadays, even though they don't have to anymore. Wonder why many continue to call themselves "ni@@a", this is why!

[RangeHova]

Wonder why so many young African-Americans prefer to sit at the back of the bus nowadays, even though they don't have to anymore. Wonder why many continue to call themselves "ni@@a", this is why!

I don't think young Blacks sit at the back of the bus for any other reason but thatit gives you the best view of the bus. When I was a kid and I rode the bus, the back was where kids went to get less harrasment from the older people that prefered the front.

The same with using the n-word. I don't think it has anything to do with any kind of white brainwashing.

As far as Vick goes, I think he might be guilty but I will refrain from passing judgement until he is tried. Just because you are indited does not mean that you are guilty. Ask Irv Gotti. It just kills me that so many animal loving crazies are given so much power that they can take down a man because of an allegation. Until the man is tried I think more people should stand up and shut down the crazies and allow due process to take its course.

What happen to innocent until proven guilty? If he is guilty, it will be proven. The fed are good at that.

This could very well be a case where some jealous or angry former associates are trying to pin some BS on a guy. Happens all the time.

I don't think PETA could have gotten away with this had the person been somone less in your face. A young, Black flashy, cornrowed, doo rag wearing athelete is a hell of an easier target.

[beatmaker]

If convicted, I hope the bastard rots in jail and then burns in hell. No place in the world for this and no one can convince me otherwise. If you try to sway me then that says a lot about you in a negative way. End of story. I've said my piece and that's it.

Why is there never this outrage, when a video of a police officer brutalizing a Black or Latin male appears. The Sean Bell case is another example, it's like "his black ass must of done something wrong to justify getting shot and killed the day before his wedding". Police officers have took an oath to uphold the law and not stoop to the level of the violent thugs, they are trying to keep off the streets. Yet, excuses are made for rogue officers, as long as their vigilante methods are confined to the black and brown communities. I remember some black man years ago got sentenced to 25 years in prison, for throwing his crackhead white girlfriend's dog off a 20th-something floor terrace, in a drug-induced jealous rage. Supposedly, she was being more attentive to her dog than him. Listen, this guy needed to do time and if Vick (not his friends or family) did what he's been indicted for, then he needs to do some time also. However, violent offenders who murder "innocent" people in black and brown communities, don't even get such harsh punishments. My problem and Chris Rock touched on this mentality in his last standup special, is the penalties and public outcry for killing or cruelty to a dog or cat, far exceed that given to Blacks (even small children) who have fell victim to the same treatment. This has been a hot "watercooler" topic among many African-Americans, when you see the hostility directed at Vick before he's even been convicted. Personally, had Vick killed his black girlfriend brutally, these same activist who want his head on a platter, would be turning the newspaper to the next page without blinking.

[Mugai_hentaisha]

If he is guilty then I hope he gets punished to the fullest extent of the law. Will he? I doubt it, but it could happen.

As far as his NFL career....if convicted....kick him out.. I don't like Football in general but the NFL needs to recover its image, and I feel even right now Vick is not a good image to the NFL.

Deep down I believe he is guilty, but this is why we have trials because he is innocent until proven guilty. I just hope the Police and the D.A. haven't made any "errors" in this one.........

[beatmaker]

Wonder why so many young African-Americans prefer to sit at the back of the bus nowadays, even though they don't have to anymore. Wonder why many continue to call themselves "ni@@a", this is why!

I don't think young Blacks sit at the back of the bus for any other reason but thatit gives you the best view of the bus. When I was a kid and I rode the bus, the back was where kids went to get less harrasment from the older people that prefered the front.

The same with using the n-word. I don't think it has anything to do withany kind of white brainwashing.

As far as Vick goes, I think he might be guilty but I will refrain from passing judgement until he is tried. Just because you are indited does not mean that you are guilty. Ask Irv Gotti. It just kills me that so many animal loving crazies are given so much power that they can take down a man because of an allegation. Until the man is tried I think more people should stand up and shut down the crazies and allow due process to take its course.

What happen to innocent until proven guilty? If he is guilty, it will be proven. The fed are good at that.

This could very well be a case where some jealous or angry former associates are trying to pin some BS on a guy. Happens all the time.

I don't think PETA could have gotten away with this had the person been somone less in your face. A young, Black flashy, cornrowed, doo rag wearing athlete is a hell of an easier target.

If that's the case, then why don't other groups make it a point to sit in the back, if the view is so good. Whether the bus is empty or crowded, I notice this proclivity. However, I respect your objections and I am also guilty of what I charge. Yet, I have done a lot of cathartic self-evaluation on some tendencies I have, that many cats don't want delve into. They are just taking their shit at face value.

As far as the "N word", I highly disagree. While many oppressed groups, do from time to time jokingly use pejorative terms to describe themselves, none have embraced and glorified every aspect of their oppression like Blacks, be it the "N word", clowning guys who excel in school versus sports, jail culture or living in the rundown hood/projects etc. Rangehova, part of being brainwashed, is your not aware of it. It's like the Black guy, that will not consider dating a dark-skinned black women or latina, yet when confronted with the issue, he'll say it's merely a preference. That's just an easy out, to avoid dealing with a hardball issue, that might make you question the very core of your existence up until that moment. Like the famous saying "Ignorance is bliss".

[chefmike]

Chefmike, I wonder if you feel the same way about U.S Vice President Dick Cheney going hunting to kill innocent deers, so he can sit around in study, smoking Cuban cigars, sipping expensive cognac, while feeling like a real man admiring his "kill" mounted on the wall. Trust, if all of Cheney's dirt came to light, his shit would give the word "thug" new meaning.

Anyone who has read my posts in the P & R section knows that I despise Cheney and his gang of crooks and liars. But your analogy equating hunting with the systematic torture and grisly killing of dogs is beyond absurd.

[chefmike]

More bad news for Vick:

Codefendant eyes a plea in Vick case
By Associated Press | July 29, 2007

One of Michael Vick's codefendants doesn't want to wait for trial.

Instead, a plea agreement hearing has been scheduled for Tony Taylor tomorrow morning in Richmond in the federal dogfighting conspiracy case.

Taylor's hearing was added to US District Judge Henry E. Hudson's docket Friday, a day after he and the other three defendants pleaded not guilty before the same judge. Vick and the others still are scheduled for trial Nov. 26.

Prosecutors claim Taylor, 34, found the Surry County (Va.) property purchased by Vick and used it as the site of "Bad Newz Kennels," a dogfighting enterprise. The Hampton man also allegedly helped purchase pit bulls and killed at least two dogs that fared poorly in test fights.

[RangeHova]

If that's the case, then why don't other groups make it a point to sit in the back, if the view is so good. Whether the bus is empty or crowded, I notice this proclivity. However, I respect your objections and I am also guilty of what I charge. Yet, I have done a lot of cathartic self-evaluation on some tendencies I have, that many cats don't want delve into. They are just taking their shit at face value.

As far as the "N word", I highly disagree. While many oppressed groups, do from time to time jokingly use pejorative terms to describe themselves, none have embraced and glorified every aspect of their oppression like Blacks, be it the "N word", clowning guys who excel in school versus sports, jail culture or living in the rundown hood/projects etc. Rangehova, part of being brainwashed, is your not aware of it. It's like the Black guy, that will not consider dating a dark-skinned black women or latina, yet when confronted with the issue, he'll say it's merely a preference. That's just an easy out, to avoid dealing with a hardball issue, that might make you question the very core of your existence up until that moment. Like the famous saying "Ignorance is bliss".

As far as the bus thing goes, from what I have seen more young people, in general (no matter what the race), do prefer to be towards the back of the bus while most older people prefer to sit towards the front. I have seen that to be the case in Europe moreso than in America. These kids aren't sitting in the back because white people have brainwashed them. Outside of seeing it in a book or movie, kids have no real direct connection to that era at all.

They are sitting in the back because it allows them less flack from the older people and the bus drivers (Black and white). The Black kids in oversized jeans are just as likely to sit in the back of a bus as the white kids with skateboards.

Blacks that experienced that era are very much less likely to sit in the back of a bus.

That is like saying that if I go to a movie and choose to sit in the balcony that I am doing it because white people have magically brainwashed me to think that is a better seat.

I have lived closely among Jews, Italians, gays, Africans, red necks and others that use all kinds of negative terms within thier groups, just as much if not more than Blacks use the N-word. Hip hop culture and it's huge influence on media has spoltlighted Blacks using the n-word more. Go to a NASCAR event and see if the redneck mentality is not embrassed more than the n-word is embrassed at a hip hop event. Go to a gay club and see just how many gays lovingly/jokingly call one another 'queer', 'fag', 'bitch' etc.

I guess they were brainwashed as well.

The skin color thing is comparing apple to oranges.

There was never a time when white America did anything to try to make using the 'n-word' attractive to Black people. There was never any campaign to make that word some prized term. Those that used it made it very clear that they used it for hate. White America never tried to convince Blacks that sitting in the back of the bus was something special the way they did white skin and blonde hair. If anything segregation made people that experienced that kind of racism prize the front seats of a bus just that much more, the same way many Blacks prize lighter skin and straight hair.

[Baron Of Hell]

While I understand this is a serious case to some, I'm having a bit of difficulty seeing the severity. How is dog fighting more violent, brutal or inhumane than boxing, UFC or hunting? In hunting, the animal has absolutely no true shot at defending itself. Other than to run, fly or swim away. In boxing or UFC, people pay quite a bit to see 2 peole fight it out. Why is one more significant than the other?

Boxing:
1. Boxers are not forced to fight
2. The daughters of boxers are not held down while good boxers rape them to breed a better boxer.
3. Boxers are not killed once the can no longer box.

UFC same as boxing

Hunting for anything other than food or population control is inhuman in my opinion. I can not really see how shooting a deer is considered a sport when the deer doesn't have a gun or traps.

[jmt]

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[jmt]

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[chefmike]

While I understand this is a serious case to some, I'm having a bit of difficulty seeing the severity. How is dog fighting more violent, brutal or inhumane than boxing, UFC or hunting? In hunting, the animal has absolutely no true shot at defending itself. Other than to run, fly or swim away. In boxing or UFC, people pay quite a bit to see 2 peole fight it out. Why is one more significant than the other?

What a crock of shit. Read the indictment. The animals were systematically tortured and then subjected to a variety of sick executions when they didn't perform up to the twisted codes of the lowlife scum that fight dogs. What a crock of shit.

[chefmike]

I really hate to go there, but it sounds very much like what was done to slaves back in the day. Some people still feel that it's okay and in some places these practices still occur. Your thoughts? Wait...I forgot some people view animals, especially dogs as higher than humans. It was just a question...relax. Btw...check out animal planet once in a while. Animals do fight each other on their own free will you know. So do people. Survival of the fittest... What ISN'T an exploitation these days?

Are you here just for the award winning, intellectual conversation?

So it's okay to torture dogs because slavery was bad? That's almost as idiotic as the remarks by Deion Sanders regarding these barbaric practices...totally absurd...

Deion’s take on Vick hits ESPN
Originally published on July 27, 2007

Fort Myers native Deion Sanders made plenty of national headlines during his NFL career. On Thursday, the former All-Pro found himself in the national spotlight again, thanks to his recent column in The News-Press about Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who is facing federal charges of running an illegal dogfighting ring.

Sanders’ column, which ran in last Sunday’s The News-Press, was debated on ESPN’s radio and television networks. ESPN radio host John Kincaid said Sanders’ computer should have reached out and grabbed his hands, preventing him from writing his opinion about the Vick case.

Here's his column-

I would've never thought Mike Vick, one of the NFL's most exciting players — the man who makes the network execs smile every time he plays — would ever be indicted for crimes against man's best friend.

The potential impact could be devastating.

He could lose millions worth of endorsements. Nike has already suspended the release of his new shoe. He could lose millions he was supposed to get from the Atlanta Falcons, if the club decides to cut him. That's unlikely, but it could happen if he's convicted or makes a plea arrangement.

Or his reputation might wind up so stained that he's never forgiven in the court of public opinion. That would be too bad for the 27-year-old superstar.

This is all the result of perspective.

What a dog means to Vick might be a lot different than what he means to you or I. Hold on, don't start shaking your head just yet. Listen to me.

Some people kiss their dogs on the mouth. Some people let their dogs eat from their plate. Some people dress their dogs in suits more expensive than mine, if you can believe that.

And some people enjoy proving they have the biggest, toughest dog on the street. You're probably not going to believe this, but I bet Vick loves the dogs that were the biggest and the baddest. Maybe, he identified with them in some way.

You can still choose to condemn him, but I'm trying to take you inside his mind so you can understand where he might be coming from.

I'm sure all of the animal activists and Humane Society folks have a dart board with Vick's picture in the center of it. And if he plays this season, PETA is going to picket every stadium where he plays.

Still, I must ask the question: Where is all of this going?

By now you've read all of the accusations about the cruelty involving the dogs — and I'm not just talking about their duels to the death. All of that is enough to make me cringe because I have three highly-trained protection German shepherds, just in case someone wants to rob my family.

Believe me, you don't want to deal with them. With one German command, our dog Yascho turns into Cujo. And for the record, I live around the corner from the police station, so it won't take them long to show up and save you from the dogs.

Now back to Vick.

Why are we indicting him? Was he the ringleader? Is he the big fish? Or is there someone else? The fights allegedly occurred at a property that he purchased for a family member. They apparently found carcasses on the property, but I must ask you again, is he the ringleader?

This situation reminds me of a scene in the movie "New Jack City," when drug dealer Nino Brown is on the witness stand and eloquently says, "This thing is bigger than me."

Are we using Vick to get to the ringleader? Are we using him to bring an end to dogfighting in the United States?

The only thing I can gather from this situation is that we're using Vick.

Was he wrong? Absolutely. Was he stupid? Can't argue with that. Was he immature? No doubt. But is he the ringleader? I just can't see it.

I believe Vick had a passion for dogfighting. I know many athletes who share his passion. The allure is the intensity and the challenge of a dog fighting to the death. It's like ultimate fighting, but the dog doesn't tap out when he knows he can't win.

It reminds me of when I wore a lot of jewelry back in the day because I always wanted to have the biggest chain or the biggest, baddest car. It gives you status.

Can I pause for a moment to ask you a question?

Who shot Darrant Williams? Remember the Denver Bronco cornerback? I'm just more concerned about bringing to justice someone who killed a human. Or finding out who broke into Miami Heat forward Antoine Walker's home, tied him up and robbed him at gunpoint.

We're attacking this dogfighting ring the same way a teenager attacks his MySpace page after school (by the way parents, make sure you monitor your kids). We should have the same passion for man that we have for man's best friend.

The reason this is turning into a three-ring circus is that baseball is boring, basketball is months away, football is around the corner and we in the media don't have a thing interesting to write about.

How will this end up? I have no idea. All I know is Falcons fans better pray because Vick's backup is Joey Harrington. Enough said.

God bless and God willing I'll hollah at you next week.

[Legend]

Sounds like deion doesn't value animals at all and only uses them for weapons,its quite laughable they he some how views vick fighting dogs as identifiying with them LOL ok whatver mr.must be the money",Joey Harrington might not be as good as vick but he isn't about to be kick out of the league.

[chefmike]

While I understand this is a serious case to some, I'm having a bit of difficulty seeing the severity. How is dog fighting more violent, brutal or inhumane than boxing, UFC or hunting? In hunting, the animal has absolutely no true shot at defending itself. Other than to run, fly or swim away. In boxing or UFC, people pay quite a bit to see 2 peole fight it out. Why is one more significant than the other?

What a crock of shit. Read the indictment. The animals were systematically tortured and then subjected to a variety of sick executions when they didn't perform up to the twisted codes of the lowlife scum that fight dogs. What a crock of shit.

She brings a valid point though. Is it not cruelty to use a Winchester rifle to shoot a deer or an Elk in head for fun when they have no real way of defending themselves?

I just don't see the analogy. I wouldn't, and probably couldn't shoot one of the many deer and rabbits that I see in my yard and neighborhood. I have never hunted, yet I have cooked, eaten, and served to my customers nearly every form of wildlife that walks, swims, or flies. But we are talking about a concentration camp for man's best friend where they are tortured systematically, and then executed in a variety of incredibly sadistic manners when they don't perform up to their tormentors twisted standards. With all due respect to the both of you, that analogy just doesn't hold water with me(or the majority of the country).

[chefmike]

Yes or no? Not bloody likely. That's like comparing a concentration camp with a turkey shoot. I don't understand, agree with, or condone hunting for sport. But you are comparing the systematic torture and sadistic slaughter of CAGED animals with some jackasses who want a set of antlers on their wall. Nice try, but no cigar.

[LG]

While I understand this is a serious case to some, I'm having a bit of difficulty seeing the severity. How is dog fighting more violent, brutal or inhumane than boxing, UFC or hunting? In hunting, the animal has absolutely no true shot at defending itself. Other than to run, fly or swim away. In boxing or UFC, people pay quite a bit to see 2 peole fight it out. Why is one more significant than the other?

Boxing:
1. Boxers are not forced to fight
2. The daughters of boxers are not held down while good boxers rape them to breed a better boxer.
3. Boxers are not killed once the can no longer box.

UFC same as boxing

Hunting for anything other than food or population control is inhuman in my opinion. I can not really see how shooting a deer is considered a sport when the deer doesn't have a gun or traps.

I've lurked in on this conversation for a while without posting anything (possibly because I've made my opinion on dogfighting clear in a past thread and also because until recently I did not know or care who Michael Vick was).

I like the above post by the Baron of Hell (weird nickname by the way, but pretty cool, though obviously I'm aware it's a character from a video game and that Baron of Hell is actually an accountant or something like that, rather than a soul-taking demon). It pretty much sums up my views on this issue.

And...ummm.that's it. No further comment.

[whatislove]

While I understand this is a serious case to some, I'm having a bit of difficulty seeing the severity. How is dog fighting more violent, brutal or inhumane than boxing, UFC or hunting? In hunting, the animal has absolutely no true shot at defending itself. Other than to run, fly or swim away. In boxing or UFC, people pay quite a bit to see 2 peole fight it out. Why is one more significant than the other?

Hunting has tons of laws to it... Since we killed the other top predators, w/o hunting, the deer population would explode, over graze, and then be subject to disease and wasting, destroying up what ecosystem is now in place. But if you purposely injure or disturb a protected species, you could be hit with an huge fine in the tens of thousands.

Just because your personally ok with dogfighting, it's still illegal. Don't think we will see much opinion like yours, so it's gonna stay that way.

[jmt]

Yes or no? Not bloody likely. That's like comparing a concentration camp with a turkey shoot. I don't understand, agree with, or condone hunting for sport. But you are comparing the systematic torture and sadistic slaughter of CAGED animals with some jackasses who want a set of antlers on their wall. Nice try, but no cigar.

He's not the only person to ever hold a "Concentration camp" in this country. In NY, this has been going since 70's. In my city it has been going since the 80's. Yet, no one scrutinize those same people who did it. Once Vick does it, it's considered to be front page? For what? He'll beat the case very easily.

wtf is so hard to understand.... dogs are not wildlife and any comparison of hunting to how these dogs are treated is completely ridiculous.

also fyi....vick is done...his nfl career is over and his endorsments are falling one by one.

[jmt]

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[Kabuki]

This is getting ridiculous...Reebok is pulling his jersey...endorsement deals are being suspended. WITHOUT A TRIAL. Can we at least hear the evidence first? Has anyone ever thought that the real criminals could be trying to cover their asses? It's a possibility. I know about Vick's family, since I was born and raised in the same area that he was. There are some bad seeds in his family, and they were raised in the urban areas. If he isn't guilty, I have a feeling that he may be protecting those family members. Who knows. The fact is that none of us no what the truth is. This case disturbs me. I truly hope that he isn't guilty, and until I hear the evidence, I'll continue to wear my red Vick jersey.

[Solitary Brother]

Michael Vick is in DEEP do do.
He is truly one clueless fuck.
Every animal rights activist and pet lover and yes some crazies too will be on him like he is Satan himself.
Thanks to his own stupidity he is now target number one for all the vitriol of the animal rights people like PETA and others.
This idiot just painted a bulls eye on his face and said "come get me".
Well.......they will!
For his OWN safety he should ASK for jail time to keep him away from the animal rights people!
Michael Vick is beyond toast right now........he needs a friend......BADLY!
Maybe if they put him in solitary confinement the animal rights people cant get him there.
I would NOT want to be in his shoes right now at all.
All you people(JWBL) saying Vick wouldnt get jail time....where are you now?
People are reading about what this low class simpleton did and are getting angrier by the minute.
Actually the BEST thing for Vick is jailtime to protect him from ALL of his enemies!

(My gut hurts from laughing so hard!)

[Kabuki]

what he was involved in is far far worse than anything pacman jones, chris henry, tank johnson, or anyone else who has ever been suspended has ever done.

You are wrong there. Do you even know Pac Man Jones history?

As of March 2007, Jones has been arrested five times and questioned by police ten times since he was drafted by the Titans in 2005. Many NFL commentators are quick to point out that Jones has more arrests than interceptions, since being in the NFL. Nearly all of his troubles happen at night/strip clubs.

[jmt]

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[jmt]

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[Legend]

This is getting ridiculous...Reebok is pulling his jersey...endorsement deals are being suspended. WITHOUT A TRIAL. Can we at least hear the evidence first? Has anyone ever thought that the real criminals could be trying to cover their asses? It's a possibility. I know about Vick's family, since I was born and raised in the same area that he was. There are some bad seeds in his family, and they were raised in the urban areas. If he isn't guilty, I have a feeling that he may be protecting those family members. Who knows. The fact is that none of us no what the truth is. This case disturbs me. I truly hope that he isn't guilty, and until I hear the evidence, I'll continue to wear my red Vick jersey.

I doubt he is trying to protect any family member his camp tried to pin the whole ring on another family member,just face it he fucked up and is gonna pay for it.Good luck with wearing that red jersey in public though.

BTW you might wanna add topps to that list of companies pulling vick merchandise,they just pull his card and said he won't be in any future collections.

[Kabuki]

This is getting ridiculous...Reebok is pulling his jersey...endorsement deals are being suspended. WITHOUT A TRIAL. Can we at least hear the evidence first? Has anyone ever thought that the real criminals could be trying to cover their asses? It's a possibility. I know about Vick's family, since I was born and raised in the same area that he was. There are some bad seeds in his family, and they were raised in the urban areas. If he isn't guilty, I have a feeling that he may be protecting those family members. Who knows. The fact is that none of us no what the truth is. This case disturbs me. I truly hope that he isn't guilty, and until I hear the evidence, I'll continue to wear my red Vick jersey.

read the indictment and decide if you still think he may be innocent. these are the feds so you can bet that most if not all of those charges layed out in the indictement are gonna stick.

as far at the nfl and his endorsments, there are all ready enough facts in this case for him to lose all of that. the nfl isnt a court of law and no company is gonna associate with vick just based on the fact that he had any involvement at all with this.

I didn't say he was innocent. I want to see the case go to trial. Indictments mean nothing to me. I've known of plenty of innocent people who get indicted. Some have even been convicted, and later are found to be innocent. Like I said before, the media and a number of people want him to be guilty. I always thought you were innocent until proven guilty in this country though. Maybe I was wrong :roll:

[werwt22]

Even if he gets convicted he has grounds for a new trial already. The media has been unfairly influencing peoples thoughts and portraying him as a guilty man. Plus it's not fair he get crucified when there were that many more people involved. They dont even know how credible these witnesses are b/c they were originally charged and rolled on Vick to get out of there own charges.

Animals die all the time in the wild so its no biggy to me. Not saying I agree with it....I just dont care. I cant tell you how often shows on the discovery channel and national geographic set up those confrontations between other animals in the wild and get off without question.

It kind of reminds me of the guy that walked past someones house and shot the pitbull in the head. The media portrayed the pitbull as the most innocent loving dog in the world and the man as some vile inconsiderate murderer, but its been too many times when I have been walking and a dog off it's leash charged me full force snarling like it was ready to rip my throat out. Am I supposed to wait til he latches his jaws onto my arteries to defend myself? Just another instance of the media falsely potraying the information they get and telling a one-sided story.

And LOL @ the crowds being divided like OJ's trial. I would say this might get nasty but it already has.

[beatmaker]

Chefmike, I wonder if you feel the same way about U.S Vice President Dick Cheney going hunting to kill innocent deers, so he can sit around in study, smoking Cuban cigars, sipping expensive cognac, while feeling like a real man admiring his "kill" mounted on the wall. Trust, if all of Cheney's dirt came to light, his shit would give the word "thug" new meaning.

Anyone who has read my posts in the P & R section knows that I despise Cheney and his gang of crooks and liars. But your analogy equating hunting with the systematic torture and grisly killing of dogs is beyond absurd.

So, killing an innocent deer with high powered rifle, then chopping it's head off to mount on your wall isn't inhumane? One thing the indictment didn't touch on was the condition of the dogs who were killed. Were they so badly mauled, that death or permanent disability was eminent or was this just the "ultimate penalty" for being the loser. Shit, people still shoot limp or injured racehorses to death, without even euthanizing them. These aren't aberrations either. It's done all the time by stable owners, yet no one says shit!

[Legend]

Animals die all the time in the wild so its no biggy to me. Not saying I agree with it....I just dont care. I cant tell you how often shows on the discovery channel and national geographic set up those confrontations between other animals in the wild and get off without question.

They don't setup up anything,they film those animals in natural habitat and if they do die it's because hey are trying to survive.I'm sure vick doesn't put value on animals like you but you see where that lend him.Just realize that some people care about and put value on animals unlike some people who just look at them as nothing more then expendable creatures.

[jmt]

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[chefmike]

I said, what makes it more severe than boxing, ufc or hunting.



ummmm....and that question was answered over and over again.

Exactly.

[chefmike]

Chefmike, I wonder if you feel the same way about U.S Vice President Dick Cheney going hunting to kill innocent deers, so he can sit around in study, smoking Cuban cigars, sipping expensive cognac, while feeling like a real man admiring his "kill" mounted on the wall. Trust, if all of Cheney's dirt came to light, his shit would give the word "thug" new meaning.

Anyone who has read my posts in the P & R section knows that I despise Cheney and his gang of crooks and liars. But your analogy equating hunting with the systematic torture and grisly killing of dogs is beyond absurd.

So, killing an innocent deer with high powered rifle, then chopping it's head off to mount on your wall isn't inhumane? One thing the indictment didn't touch on was the condition of the dogs who were killed. Were they so badly mauled, that death or permanent disability was eminent or was this just the "ultimate penalty" for being the loser. Shit, people still shoot limp or injured racehorses to death, without even euthanizing them. These aren't aberrations either. It's done all the time by stable owners, yet no one says shit!

Another absurd analogy. And someone mentioned that this subject is polarizing people like the OJ trial. I think it's a safe bet that we have people on this thread who believe OJ was innocent, after reading their opinions on the Vick matter. We can all see how hard that he's been looking for the real killers after all, right? It's a good thing for OJ that he has narrowed down the search to posh country clubs. :roll:

[chefmike]

Vick co-defendant Taylor pleads guilty and agrees to "fully cooperate" with the feds...developing...

[Silcc69]

I think he did but I feel like he could've gotten away with this but he was a dumbass though.

[whatislove]

It's a felony, that's the severity of it, and that's my point. The other things you mention are not felonies. There are felonies I may disagree with but if youre busted, youre busted. If you think hunting should have equivalent punishment, ok :roll:


LOL, once again I'm reminded why I don't participate much with this sites activities. Too many intelligent, enlightened minds that don't know how to read between the lines. NOT ONCE did I say I condone dog fighting. Personally, I find it barbaric. I said, what makes it more severe than boxing, ufc or hunting...to name a few. Sorry for offending the sensitive dog lovers of this institute of moral judgement *lol* Seriously, try really reading what is said before you jump to conclusions.

Someone is always a VICKtim at some point





_____

BREAKING NEWS!!!

Due to dogfighting, Mystique has been self exiled from HA. Her closing statement, "There is just too much catfighting going on." 8)

[Silcc69]

Ur avatar kicks ass lol

[werwt22]

Animals die all the time in the wild so its no biggy to me. Not saying I agree with it....I just dont care. I cant tell you how often shows on the discovery channel and national geographic set up those confrontations between other animals in the wild and get off without question.

They don't setup up anything,they film those animals in natural habitat and if they do die it's because hey are trying to survive.I'm sure vick doesn't put value on animals like you but you see where that lend him.Just realize that some people care about and put value on animals unlike some people who just look at them as nothing more then expendable creatures.

I've had quite a few dogs I've loved, but you missed my point. Animals die all the time, whether in the wild, getting hit by cars, being eaten, or fighting other animals. I've been watching and reading discovery and national geographic since I was a kid and the rate at which animals die in the books and shows is unreal, so you have to be able to stomach that and get used to seeing those things happen if you wanna continue to watch the show. That's why this really doesn't phase me. Animal vs animal happens all the time. And truth be told, they are expendable....they aren't a necessity to our survival so yes that does make them expendable. and once again they do set up/provoke confrontations for some of the things that go in the show.

Like that episode where the only thing separating the wild from civilization was this man made runoff ditch going downhill about 5 feet deep. They started talking about what would happen if an animal fell in the ditch and all the sudden heres a snake that "fell in". They didn't have the shot where the snake fell in but somehow they were able to record the snake 30 yards upstream before they knew it was even coming. One camera crew.

[whatislove]

Like that episode where the only thing separating the wild from civilization was this man made runoff ditch going downhill about 5 feet deep. They started talking about what would happen if an animal fell in the ditch and all the sudden heres a snake that "fell in". They didn't have the shot where the snake fell in but somehow they were able to record the snake 30 yards upstream before they knew it was even coming. One camera crew.

slow talking follows.....

Or maybe they include the narration after they captured the footage. Yeah, maybe.

[chefmike]

Vick Co-Defendant Taylor Pleads Guilty in Agreement
By Aaron Kuriloff

July 30 (Bloomberg) -- Michael Vick supplied most of the money to run and bet on dog fights at a Virginia property he owned, a co-defendant of the Atlanta Falcons' Pro Bowl quarterback said in a plea agreement today.

Tony Taylor, 34, of Hampton, Virginia, pleaded guilty at U.S. District Court in Richmond to one count of conspiring to traffic in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and sponsoring a dog in an animal-fighting venture, according to court papers. He is scheduled for sentencing Dec. 14.

Taylor, who pleaded not guilty in the case last week, said he wasn't promised any specific sentence in return for cooperating with authorities, the Associated Press reported. Prosecutors said in a July 17 indictment that Taylor located the property in Surry County that Vick purchased in 2001 to house ``Bad Newz Kennels,'' and also helped buy, train and fight dogs.

A statement of facts filed today gave details of the operation and said Vick supplied almost all of the money used to run the operation and gamble on the fights, while Taylor and the two other men charged in the case typically split the winnings. Taylor left the operation after a disagreement with the others in 2004, court papers said.

Billy Martin, Vick's attorney, didn't immediately return a voicemail message at his office seeking comment.

According to the indictment, participants in those fights established purses as high as $26,000, while dog owners and spectators also made side bets. Fights lasted until the death or surrender of a dog. Losing dogs, along with those deemed unsuitable for fighting, were sometimes killed by drowning, hanging, beating, shooting or electrocution, the indictment said.

[werwt22]

Like that episode where the only thing separating the wild from civilization was this man made runoff ditch going downhill about 5 feet deep. They started talking about what would happen if an animal fell in the ditch and all the sudden heres a snake that "fell in". They didn't have the shot where the snake fell in but somehow they were able to record the snake 30 yards upstream before they knew it was even coming. One camera crew.

slow talking follows.....

Or maybe they include the narration after they captured the footage. Yeah, maybe.

Are you slow? Of course the narration comes afterwards.....my point is they threw a snake in the river. :roll:

[blckhaze]

Vick is boned. his friend copped a plea and he's got a little motivation to out Vick.

See ya iv 6 years m8.

[chefmike]

Vick case sheds light on dark world of dogfighting
By Tom Weir, USA TODAY

No matter how Michael Vick's indictment on charges of operating a dogfighting ring is resolved in court, allegations against the NFL star have forced mainstream America to confront the grisly image of canine death matches.

Law enforcement and animal-protection advocates who have participated in raids on the type of enterprises that the Atlanta Falcons quarterback and three other men are accused of running say the reality of the dogfighting underworld is even worse than most people can imagine.

They say seized dogs inevitably are euthanized, the plywood walls of the typical fighting ring are splattered with blood, and cruelty shrouds every aspect of the dog's life.

"When you go to where these fights have happened, you'll find a couple of dog corpses or a pit full of blood," says Mack Dickinson, a Louisiana state trooper who heads that state's dogfighting investigations. "We'll open up their kennels, where they'll put dogs after they've fought, and they'll have blood all over the walls."

Diane Jessup, a former Washington state animal control officer, says, "With dogs that don't win, it's not uncommon for them to be electrocuted, shot, hung or burned." But what troubles her even more is "the way the dogs are maintained, kept out in the mud on a short chain, a lifetime of that. To me, that's crueler than the fighting."

Kathryn Destreza, who as director of humane law enforcement for the Louisiana SPCA has been on about 30 raids in the last three years, says the animals' owners "will file the dog's canine teeth into a sharp point, or they'll put ground-up glass in their fur" before a fight.

At some raids where spectators have fled into the woods as police invaded, Destreza says, abandoned toddler-sized chairs and nearby milk and cookies suggest some people consider dogfighting family entertainment.

More often, law enforcement officials say, the sweeps net drugs, weapons and gambling money.

Of the 65 dogfighting arrests he's made in the last five years, Sgt. David Hunt of the Franklin County (Ohio) Sheriff's Office says, "There's only been one where we didn't find drugs."

Hunt testified before Congress last year at a hearing that led to legislation making dogfighting a federal felony. That, Hunt says, has increased the efforts of federal law enforcement.

Practice growing in cities

Vick's indictment was handed up Tuesday in Richmond, Va., in federal district court. He faces charges of transporting fighting dogs across state lines and engaging in dogfighting. Conviction could mean a six-year prison term and a $350,000 fine.

Vick and the three other men are scheduled to have a bond hearing and arraignment July 26, the day the Falcons begin training camp.

After a meeting involving NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and the Falcons, the league will let Vick keep playing, the Associated Press reported. The AP reported that a person with knowledge of the meeting, who requested anonymity so the case would not be influenced, said the NFL would stick to that position for the foreseeable future, despite its new personal-conduct policy.

Vick's case doesn't include drug or weapon charges, but Hunt says it is a "textbook example" of how law enforcement often stumbles into a dogfighting investigation.

In Vick's case, a drug-related investigation by local police of a Vick family member took place at the Surry County, Va., property owned by Vick. Law enforcement took note of the presence of numerous dogs, further searches were conducted and 55 pit bulls were seized.

Eric Sakach, West Coast regional office director for the Humane Society of the United States, has been investigating dogfighting for about 30 years and estimates 40,000 people may be involved in the blood sport nationwide.

Dogfighting traditionally is associated with rural settings, but Sakach says the biggest growth is at the "street level," in cities.

Hunt agrees, saying at a recent seminar with Chicago police that he was told gangs are increasingly engaging in dogfighting. "Instead of those guys getting in a fight and police getting called, they'll fight their dogs instead," Hunt says.

Typically, dogfighting cases are not resolved quickly in court. One of the most publicized cases in recent years goes to trial next month — 2 years and 5 months after the alleged breeding center of Floyd Boudreaux and his son Guy in Broussard, La., was raided.

Louisiana state trooper Dickinson led that raid in March 2005 and alleges that Boudreaux-bred pit bull puppies sell for as much as $5,000. Dickinson also says he has raided two dogfighting operations in the last week but rarely is able to break up events in mid-fight.

"They never disclose the location until an hour or two before," Dickinson says. "It may be in a field or a warehouse. They might fight four dogs, then go to another location."

During the 20-some raids he has conducted the last three years, Dickinson says, "We've seized AK-47s, explosive devices, a kilo of crack. The drugs and weapons associated with this sport are unbelievable."

Until Vick's indictment, perhaps the most prominent dogfighting case involved the New York state prosecution of James Fricchione, known to authorities as the "Al Capone" of dogfighting.

Former Orange County prosecutor David Hoovler described the 2003 raid on Fricchione's property as entering a "Spartacus for puppies" where authorities found 18 animals. Many were severely wounded. The compound included treadmills where dogs were trained for stamina, a fighting ring and an electrocution chamber.

Fricchione was later convicted of animal cruelty charges and sentenced to between two and seven years in prison.

Three years after the conviction, Hoovler, now a federal prosecutor, still remembers the scene he encountered April 23, 2003.

He says one of the 18 dogs was missing half of a jaw and another suffered from about 70 open wounds. Still another had scar tissue covering about 75% of its body. At least 13 of the 18 animals were injured.

"I had been to a number of murder scenes," Hoovler says, "but I was appalled."

Fricchione's The Sporting Dog Journal was considered the ultimate authority on dogfighting and was circulated to about 3,000 subscribers. Police say copies of the magazine commonly are found at raid sites because it tracked breeding lines and performances in 1,500-2,000 fights a year.

Fight sites 'more organized'

Another major conviction came in November 2004 in Charleston County, S.C., when David Tant received a 40-year sentence after at least 40 pit bulls were seized on his property.

That investigation began after a state surveyor tripped a booby-trapped shotgun on Tant's property and was shot, according to Mark Plowden, spokesman for the South Carolina attorney general's office.

Tant was regarded as one of the world's top breeders of fighting dogs. "His name has been found in underground publications as far away as eastern Germany," Plowden says.

Plowden says South Carolina formed a task force on dogfighting in 2003 only after the SPCA made a presentation to Attorney General Henry McMaster.

"People are just generally unfamiliar with the extent of the problem," Plowden says.

Sandy Christiansen, president of the Spartanburg (S.C.) Humane Society, consults with law enforcement in several states, has been on about 30 dogfighting raids and also has served as an expert government witness at trials.

"Increasingly, they're getting more and more secure," Christiansen says of those who stage dogfights. "Recently I've heard they'll take away cellphones and they may not allow people to come and go. We're definitely talking about more organized people."

The typical fighting ring, Christiansen says, is a 16-foot square of plywood, with a 2- to 3-foot-high wall. "The fight is anywhere you can put the pit," Christiansen says. "Inside abandoned houses, a basement. For a garage, it's simple — just black out the windows."

Christiansen says it's up to communities to develop awareness of what might be happening in those hidden battlegrounds.

"You've got to have a pretty violent streak in you to sit and watch man's best friend rip another one to shreds so someone can make money," he says.

[beatmaker]

Chefmike, I wonder if you feel the same way about U.S Vice President Dick Cheney going hunting to kill innocent deers, so he can sit around in study, smoking Cuban cigars, sipping expensive cognac, while feeling like a real man admiring his "kill" mounted on the wall. Trust, if all of Cheney's dirt came to light, his shit would give the word "thug" new meaning.

Anyone who has read my posts in the P & R section knows that I despise Cheney and his gang of crooks and liars. But your analogy equating hunting with the systematic torture and grisly killing of dogs is beyond absurd.

So, killing an innocent deer with high powered rifle, then chopping it's head off to mount on your wall isn't inhumane? One thing the indictment didn't touch on was the condition of the dogs who were killed. Were they so badly mauled, that death or permanent disability was eminent or was this just the "ultimate penalty" for being the loser. Shit, people still shoot limp or injured racehorses to death, without even euthanizing them. These aren't aberrations either. It's done all the time by stable owners, yet no one says shit!

Another absurd analogy. And someone mentioned that this subject is polarizing people like the OJ trial. I think it's a safe bet that we have people on this thread who believe OJ was innocent, after reading their opinions on the Vick matter. We can all see how hard that he's been looking for the real killers after all, right? It's a good thing for OJ that he has narrowed down the search to posh country clubs. :roll:

Chefmike, my analogy is absurd, but your resurrecting the O.J Simpson case, as some sort of litmus test for "our" opinion about the Vick trial. Just keep it real and say what you really meant! You're the one who's absurd! This O.J nonsense your bringing up, just shows that race was actually more of an issue for whites than blacks during his trial. Many whites still seethe in anger at the mere mention or sight of O.J. I don't hear many whites bitching about Robert Blake aka "Baretta" beating his case, when they had just as much damning evidence on him. However, Chefmike for your information, I'm leaning towards O.J's guilt, but I'm not 150% sure, like so many other people are. Don't assume all black people are robots who think the same way on every position. Furthermore, my issue with Vick like O.J, isn't about guilt. I'm somewhat sure O.J is guilty or knows who did it at least and Vick definitely participated in the dogfighting on some level, it's just a matter of how bloody his hands got. My issue is with the vilification and uproar, yet when a white man (i.e Robert Blake or Phil Spector) gets in a similar situation, it's covered lacklusterly by the media. The people who run the media and U.S politics, know race and class will always be issues to exploit for ratings/votes, as they tap into people's deep seated notions of inherent behavior. Bottomline, a white man killing a white woman, isn't as salacious as a black man doing it. Sure, some cases like the Lacey Peterson murder become big stories, but they still pale in comparison to the O.J Simpson media circus. Big time careers were built on that one case alone. Star Jones got her initial exposure, as a regular legal expert on the various news shows. Michael Moorer pointed out how the media, regularly uses the "evil black man" to inflame and terrorize most whites in Middle America, in his documentary "Bowling for Columbine". Fear of terrorism stemming from the 9/11 attacks, are a perfect example how the media and politicians use fear-mongering and deep-rooted prejudices, to keep people tuned in to these 24/7 cable news shows. Michael Vick, guilty or not is the latest flavor of the subliminal "Big Bad Black Man" media coverage, that will ensue. I remember the Duke Lacrosse case, how people were defending these guys, even from the beginning. When police officers defend themselves with fishy and contradictory stories about why they shot or beat some black man up, no one defends the victim(s), because the officers' explanation sounds a little off. So Chefmike, there is a HUGE double standard and that is my issue. The media and activist smell blood and are "lockjawing" on Michael Vick's black ass, like the pitbulls he used to fight.

As far as your initial response, I think since most people have been socialized to view hunting as socially acceptable, I can understand why you can't see the correlation between the two, thereby labeling my points as absurd. Sure, the details in the Vick indictment are a lot more grizzly and disturbing. However, on a moral, ethical level, why can you go into the woods and kill innocent deers with a high powered rifle, yet dogfighting is so morally repugnant? Please believe, Michael Vick's ass would still be in the hot seat with the law and PETA, even if all him and his friends did was fight the pitbulls and refrained from the torturing and killing of the dogs.

[chefmike]

At least recent events have brought attention to the sordid world of dogfighting -

Norfolk, Va. -- On the heels of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick's federal indictment on dogfighting-related charges, PETA is releasing its hard-hitting TV ad narrated by "Relentless" Lamon Brewster. In the ad, the former world heavyweight boxing champ KOs the cruel blood sport and calls on viewers to report illegal dogfighting activities. The ad, which was originally released in 2005, will blitz the airwaves in the two largest U.S. media markets, New York and Los Angeles, as well as in Atlanta--the city where Vick's future with the NFL is in limbo--at a cost of nearly $100,000.

"I usually let my fists do the talking for me, but I always speak up for the animals," says Brewster. "I choose to fight every time I step into the ring, but animals aren't given that choice."

*****

Rawlings becomes the latest to drop Vick

ATLANTA — Michael Vick lost another sponsor — Rawlings. The sports goods company said Tuesday it was ending its relationship with the Atlanta Flacons quarterback because of dogfighting conspiracy charges.

"Rawlings recognizes that Mr. Vick has not been convicted of the charges stemming from his recent indictment," the St. Louis company said. "However, we have determined that ending our relationship with Mr. Vick at this time is necessary."

Rawlings used Vick's image in promotional displays in stores, and its decision is the latest commercial setback for the NFL star.

Last week, Nike suspended a lucrative contract with Vick, and Reebok stopped sales of his No. 7 jersey. Upper Deck removed all Vick autographed memorabilia from its online store and said it was removing Vick trading cards from NFL sets to be released in October.

"Rawlings is disappointed about the charges brought against Mr. Vick for his alleged participation in a dogfighting operation," the company said. "Dogfighting is illegal and entirely unacceptable to Rawlings."

*****

Congress Takes Aim at Dogfighting

The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) has led the fight against the cruel and degrading activity for years and welcomes the Dog Fighting Prohibition Act, H.R. 3219, introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives by Rep. Betty Sutton (D-Ohio), designed to crack down on both dogfighters and the spectators who are drawn to these bloody spectacles.

(PressZoom) - WASHINGTON ( July 30, 2007 ) – The public has no tolerance for dogfighting and both chambers of Congress are taking steps to toughen penalties for this crime.

The Humane Society of the United States ( HSUS ) has led the fight against the cruel and degrading activity for years and welcomes the Dog Fighting Prohibition Act, H.R. 3219, introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives by Rep. Betty Sutton ( D-Ohio ), designed to crack down on both dogfighters and the spectators who are drawn to these bloody spectacles.

"Rep. Sutton's measure further increases federal penalties for dogfighting and empowers prosecutors to go after these criminals and those who pay to watch them – and that's just what Americans want," said Wayne Pacelle, President and CEO of The HSUS.

Sutton's measure, which has eight original co-sponsors in the House, would empower federal prosecutors to move against dogfighting even if animals were not transported across state lines. Additionally, the measure would make it a federal crime to attend a dogfight, as well as to buy, sell, transport, train, or possess dogs for the purpose of fighting. Last week, a Senate companion bill, S. 1880, was introduced by Sen. John Kerry ( D-Mass. ), with Sen. Barbara Boxer ( D-Calif. ) as an original co-sponsor.

"By cracking down on all those involved in dogfighting, from trainers, to dealers to spectators, my legislation will strangle what has unfortunately become a lucrative gambling business. Anyone who knowingly participates in dogfighting is equally culpable and must be held responsible," said Rep. Betty Sutton. "This issue goes far beyond the indictment of Michael Vick. Dogfights still occur in our communities because loopholes exist which allow participants to duck responsibility. This legislation will bring that to an end."

In March, The HSUS assisted in a coordinated raid of nine Ohio locations where dogfighting activities were occurring. More than two dozen arrests were made and more than 60 dogs were seized in the operation led by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Office of Inspector General and the Ohio Attorney General's Office.

Earlier this year after a six-year campaign by The HSUS, Congress enacted a law to upgrade the penalties for interstate movement of animals for fighting, from a misdemeanor to a felony, and also to ban the interstate commerce in cockfighting weapons. The new House and Senate bills would make all participation in dogfighting, including being a spectator at a dogfight and possessing dogs for the purpose of fighting, a federal felony, and would increase the maximum penalty from three years to five years in prison.

For a list of all state laws on dogfighting, go to: http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/dogfighting_statelaws.pdf

Facts

All 50 states ban dogfighting. Most make it a felony, although Idaho and Wyoming still categorize organized canine combat as a misdemeanor crime.

In Georgia, Idaho and Nevada, possession of dogs for fighting is legal. In 43 states, possession of dogs for fighting is a felony; in 4 states it is a misdemeanor.

In Georgia and Hawaii, it is legal to be a spectator at a dogfight. In 26 states, spectators can be charged with a misdemeanor crime; in 22 states it is a felony.

*****

5,000 reward for helping bust dogfighting rings

SEATTLE - The deadly game of dogfighting is happening in King County.

Investigators are sure of it. But they don't know where it is or who's running it. They hope a big new reward will bring in tips to bust local dogfighting rings.

The reward comes as dogfighting is getting national attention because of the arrest of quarterback Michael Vick on federal dogfighting charges.

Just like people make money on dogfighting, they can now make money by ending it.

"Five thousand dollars is one of the top rewards that's being offered," says Seattle King County Humane Society CEO Brenda Barnette. "When you look at what's been offered in other states, the top reward money is $2,500 and that gets the tips to come in. And we've doubled it here in King County."

The money is for anyone with a tip that helps arrest and convict someone dealing in dogfighting in King County.

"We know that it occurs," says King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg. "We have not yet captured, arrested and prosecuted a ringleader of these events but we know that they're out there. It's this type of action by concerned citizens that can help us break a ring."

The Seattle King County Humane Society gets about 40 pitbulls and pitbull mixes a month. Of those, only eight of them can be adopted out.

The other 32 are such a danger to the community, they have to be euthanized.

The dangerous dogs come in with scars and open wounds, and they have been trained to attack.

"Dogfighting is a heinous crime. These are animals who want to do nothing more than make us happy," says Barnette. "They have to bred to be mean and then they have to be treated and trained with cruel techniques to make them mean and make them fighters."

Investigators say it's tough to infiltrate dog fighting rings. And they honestly don't know how much it happens here.

"That $5,000 on the table right now is going to tell us more than we've known for a long time about dogfighting in King County," says Satterberg.

*****

Chew On This Michael Vick, St. Paul Saints to Give Out 1500 Chew Toys at August 21 Game

ST. PAUL, MN (August 1, 2007) - Every dog must have its day, and in the case of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, the dogs' day has come.

The St. Paul Saints Baseball Club and the newly merged Humane Society have partnered to present a Michael Vick chew toy giveaway during the Saints August 21 game.


Vick, who is being indicted on dogfighting charges, will be featured on the toy shaped like the Falcons quarterback, clad with a black and red jersey with the number seven on his chest. The first 1,500 fans who enter the ballpark will receive the chew toy.


The idea was presented to the Saints via e-mail by a fan living in Texas who wished to remain anonymous.


"This goes to show that often times the best ideas come directly from our fans," said Saints Executive Vice President/General Manager Derek Sharrer. "This idea really gave us something to chew on."


The newly merged Humane Society is a statewide education, advocacy, and rescue organization dedicated to protecting the lives and interests of Minnesota's animals. It consists of five shelters in St. Paul, Coon Rapids, Golden Valley, Buffalo and Woodbury. They have the only humane investigation department in the state. They use two full-time and one part-time officer who cover the entire state in response to requests for services on issues of abuse, neglect hoarding, puppy mills and dogfighting. The newly merged Humane Society's Humane Investigations department works to interpret and enforce federal and state welfare laws. It also responds to a large variety of complaints involving animal cruelty and/or neglect. The majority of reports involve lack of food, water and shelter. The officers receive 3,000 requests for service every year.


"The Saint Paul Saints have found a unique way of highlighting a very grim issue," said Janelle Dixon, CEO of the newly merged Humane Society. "Our investigation department handles these and other shocking cases every day, responding to more than 3,000 requests for service a year on behalf of companion animals. When you support our local independent non-profit organization, you are fighting animal abuse throughout the state. "


A portion of the proceeds from the August 21 game versus (fittingly) the Lincoln Saltdogs, will be donated to their unit.

[chefmike]

Sherman: Survivor of the dogfighting arena

TIFTON, Ga. —
Sherman is a happy dog now. He accompanies his owner to work and contentedly chews his bone while she works in her office. He likes to keep her in his sight and never strays too far from her for too long. He feels safe with her.

Sherman’s road to happiness was a tough one. He was one of seven dogs a former owner had placed in a lucrative dogfighting business.

Sherman learned early he would literally have to fight for his life. So fight he did. And he was very good at it. He has the battle scars to prove it.

Sherman’s life changed forever in November 2003, when a complaint was called into the Tift County Sheriff’s Office about a neighbor who was fighting dogs. Animal Control was called to accompany sheriff's officers to a home in rural Tift County.

“I saw six dogs when we got there,” said Regenia Wells, director of the Tifton-Tift County Animal Shelter. “I looked around some more and found another dog — Sherman — hiding inside a dog house. He was all bloody and chewed up real bad.”

Wells said Sherman was almost lifeless, was nothing but skin and bones and his wounds were all infected. “It was awful,” she said.

The dog was in such pitiful shape, Wells threw him over her shoulder and drove him straight to Larry Branch at Quailwood Animal Hospital. “Will you fix this dog?” she asked. She paid for the dog’s medical care out of her own pocket. He stayed at the vet’s overnight, and she picked him up and brought him to the animal shelter the next day.

Sherman, along with the other six fighting dogs, were lodged on “the holding side” of the shelter. Wells would go over and give Sherman his food and medications.

When she got busy and didn’t personally go feed Sherman, he quit eating.

“I called Dr. (David) Bedell and told him I needed him to come out here,” Wells said. When Bedell assessed the situation he told Wells, “You’ve got yourself a dog; he’s bonded with you.”

Wells protested. She had a dog at home and didn’t want another. “I liked him, but I didn’t want to take him home,“ Wells said. In time Wells relented and adopted Sherman. She also adopted one of Sherman’s fighting-mates and named him Diamond.

“Later, an inmate at the jail told me that Sherman had been in a fight on Sunday,” Wells said. “We had been out there to pick up the dogs the following Thursday. The inmate told me Sherman had won $10,000 in the fight that Sunday.”

Wells said Sherman is now her constant companion.

“He stays with me all the time. He just loves to be loved. He thinks he died and went to heaven,” Wells said.

She said she was also able to find homes for two of the other dogs. “Two of the dogs died,” she said. “They hemorrhaged to death. They were puppy mill mamas. But all the rest got homes.” She said one of the pit bulls went to a man in Norman Park who goes hog hunting and another one went to a man who just loved pit bulls.

Read more >>

http://www.alliednews.com/statenews/cnhinsall_story_213092640.html

[chefmike]

In Endorsements, No Athlete Is a Sure Thing

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/01/sports/football/01sandomir.html?em&ex=1186113600&en=690478b9b18861c0&ei=5087%0A

[chefmike]

'Keepin' it real' has helped damage Vick

Like Pacman and A.I., QB unable to shed bad influences he grew up with
By Bryan Burwell

Before much longer, the Michael Vick saga will probably give us all something to shout about. It’s been barely two weeks since he was indicted on felony dogfighting charges, and in that time the defrocked Atlanta Falcons quarterback has become a symbol for just about everybody and just about everything.

PETA thinks he’s a villain. The NAACP thinks he’s a victim. The NFL and his corporate endorsers think he’s poison. Most of us, though, just think he’s a damned fool. Yet as the carnival unfolds, and the madness mounts, and the sublime slips smoothly into the ridiculous, tell me haven’t we seen this act before?

The actors change, the plot remains the same. Here we are with another high-profile athletic indignity that will surely give us the same queasy feeling as the others. Chart a line through the absurdity of the O.J. trial, slash a path through the Bonfire of the Vanities sensationalism of the Duke lacrosse scandal, then weave it through the Pacman Jones insanity. By the time that line reaches the disturbing case of the United States versus Michael Vick, we can see the familiar ties that bind them all together.

Every last one of them gave us that old fashioned instant offense for anyone with a healthy sense of knee-jerk reactionary in them. Celebrity. Power. Wealth. Class. Culture. Sports. Privilege. Politics. If you substitute “animal cruelty” for “sex,” then the Vick saga is nine-tool extravaganza sure to incite and delight everyone and anyone with Jerry Springer sensibilities.

Before this is over -- in fact before it barely gets started -- there will be those out there more than willing to fan the flames of stupidity, trying to craft this into something it is not. There will be idiots out there who will attempt to diminish the severity of the crime, as if despicable acts of cruelty against dogs are merely some cultural and class-based misunderstanding.

This is not exactly what I would call a smart line of defense. I’ve heard from rednecks and country boys and inner-city underground cultists who swear dog fighting and cock fighting isn’t much different from ultimate fighting, and that anyone with a healthy blood lust would understand. That of course is preposterous. Animals have no free will. Humans do. If a man chooses to engage in a no-holds-barred caged brawl, that’s his business.

But animals have no such options in the fight business.

So before we go much further, I want to stop all the silliness. Michael Vick will have his day in court, he will have every opportunity to prove his innocence or expose his guilt in a court of law. But it does little good for anyone to try to cast him in the role of victim. He’s too wealthy to be a victim in the American justice system. Just like OJ, he has the cash to buy a strong defense.

But there is no obligation by the corporate world to stick with him, even if his toadies and sycophants choose to remain loyal. If Rawlings and Nike, Reebok and Upper Deck have joined the National Football League in putting him and his damaged image at arm’s length, this too is part of the American way. Money can buy you a lot of things in this country, including a damned good defense (which after reading the indictment, he’s really going to need one). But it can’t insulate you from the wrath of an angered public. And right now, everyone in the real world can understand why no one in Corporate America wants to have Michael Vick’s toxic image attached to its products.

The presumption of innocence does not extend to the world of print ads and TV spots. It stops at the courtroom steps, and if he didn’t know it before, Vick surely knows that now.

CONTINUED: Is anything real?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20082273/page/2/

[chefmike]

Dogged reader puts Vick’s vile charges in perspective
By Joe Fitzgerald
Boston Herald Columnist

This one’s for Ed, a reader still mourning the passing of “my pal, Rascal” four months ago, whose letter of reprimand was right on the money.

Ed had taken umbrage over a piece that ran here last week in which it was suggested the NFL’s efforts to distance itself from Michael Vick’s alleged cruelty to dogs was just a public-relations stance, given the many opportunities it’s eschewed over the years to denounce barbaric behavior.

“You seem to trivialize the treatment Vick and his cohorts leveled against the dogs,” Ed charged. “You make the analogy: ‘You can be a reprobate in the NFL; just don’t abuse a dog.’ Your sarcasm is lost in the reality of depraved, sadistic actions . . .”

And just to illustrate his point, so that his criticism might be instructive, too, he included a couple of documents, one of which is repulsive, and the other of which is regarded as an American treasure.

The first is a copy of the indictment against Vick, who quarterbacks the Atlanta Falcons, outlining instances of “knowingly sponsoring and exhibiting an animal in an animal fighting venture” and “knowingly buying, transporting and delivering” dogs for such a vile purpose.

The second was the closing appeal made to a jury in a small Missouri town more than a century ago by a lawyer named George Graham Vest, representing a client who was suing another man for having killed his dog.

Vest would go on to become a U.S. senator and one of the greatest orators of his time, back when the spoken word had much greater impact than it does today.

Vick, according to the indictment, “executed one pit bull that did not perform well by shooting it with a .22-caliber pistol.”

Vest, in his opening remarks, pointed out, “The best friend a man has in the world may turn against him and become his enemy; his son or daughter, reared with loving care, may prove ungrateful; people prone to fall on their knees to do us honor when success is with us may be the first to throw the stone of malice when failure settles its cloud upon our heads.”

Vick, the indictment went on, reacted to one female pit bull’s defeat “by wetting the dog down with water and electrocuting the animal.”

Vest went on to note, “The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, the one that never deserts him, is his dog. A man’s dog stands by him in prosperity and in poverty, in health and in sickness. He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer. He will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounters with the roughness of the world. He guards the sleep of his pauper master as if he were a prince. When all other friends desert, he remains. When riches take wings, and reputation falls to pieces, he is as constant in his love as the sun in its journey through the heavens.”

According to the indictment, Vick “executed approximately eight dogs that did not perform well by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog’s body to the ground.”

Vest concluded by declaring, “The faithful dog asks no higher privilege than that of accompanying his master, and when the last scene of all comes, and death takes his master in its embrace and his body is laid away in the cold ground, there by the graveside will be the noble dog.”

Vick, having been told by the NFL commissioner to stay away from training camp, has armed himself with lawyers who will now attempt to resurrect his career, if not his reputation.

The outcome is unclear.

Vest? He won his case.

And, Ed, you did, too. Thanks for writing.

[chefmike]

Convict Vick!
"7-to-life" T-shirt

Dear Sports Fans and Dog Lovers,
As sports fans and members of a civilized society we find the alleged actions of one Michael Dwayne Vick despicable. Do we know for certain that Mr. Vick is guilty? Of course not. We weren't there. Nor would we go. Again, we are members of a civilized society.

Our experience and common sense tell us that where there's smoke, there's fire. He owns the property, visited regularly and hasn't denied his involvement in these barbaric events. Rather than sit back and let the courts take years to sort this out we thought let's let Mr. Vick know just how we feel about an athlete who makes over $130 million yet still has something so wrong with him that he needs to kill man's best friend.

So buy a t-shirt or two and proudly let the world know how you feel. 50% of the proceeds will go towards the ASPCA and local animal shelters.

http://www.vickletthedogsout.com/

[chefmike]

Dog fighting not only danger to animals, but to everyone

Anyone who has read the federal indictment against Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick would have to be horrified.

The indictment alleges, among other things, that Vick was involved in a dog fighting ring that shot, drowned, electrocuted and, in one case, body-slammed dogs to death. The killings occured if the dogs lost a fight or didn’t test well for fighting purposes.

“Dog fighting is one of the most atrocious things you can do to a living creature,” said Cindy Ritter, adoption counselor and officer manager for Animal House Shelter in Huntley.

Animal House is one of several no-kill shelters in the McHenry County area. For more information about Animal House, visit their Web site at www.animalhouseshelter.com. The shelter adopts out all breeds of cats and dogs, including pit bulls, the kind of dog Vick is accused of using in dog fights.

“Pit bulls overall are one of the nicest, sweetest, well-tempered breeds I deal with,” Ritter said. “It disgusts me that someone would do this. People are already bombarded with negative stories [about pit bulls].”

Ritter said that dogs that have been involved in dog fighting are usually deemed unadoptable by animal control agencies and are euthanized. The fear is that after a dog has been mentally tortured and used to brutalize other animals, its behavior simply is too unpredictable.

And that is something that has not been talked about much during the Vick story. Occassionally there are high profile stories about dogs that have vicously attacked someone, maiming and in some cases killing a human being. When that happens, there always is an outcry for stronger laws to hold owners responsible.

In the Vick case, there were 54 pit bulls removed from his property in Virginia. Suppose one of those dogs got loose, or worse, simply was turned loose and you happened upon it. Or your child happened upon it. People who are involved in dog fighting present a danger not only to the animals they are dealing with, but to everyone who lives anywhere near the operation.

“They are not only physcially abusing the animals, but mentally abusing them,” Ritter said. “So you don’t know what is going on with the animal mentally.”

Animal House Shelter has received some dogs rescued from dog fighting groups, but those dogs were not the fighters. Rather, the dogs Animal House has received are called “bait dogs.”

A bait dog is an animal that is used, basically, as a living chew toy for the fighting dogs. The bait dogs, Ritter said, tend to be very good with people. It’s other dogs that scare them.

“They tend to be very nervous,” Ritter said. “They tend to cower – obviously they’ve been through some horrible trauma.”

In 2004, National Geographic News did a story on bait dogs in Pima County, Arizona.

People’s pets were being stolen in great numbers. Around the same time, the carcasses of domesticated animals were turning up, chewed up, in the desert. The local sheriff eventually was able to put two-and-two together.

Vick is not accused of stealing anyone’s pet. He is accused of partaking in an activity that contributes to such behavior. There has been a lot of talk of legal due process in this case, and Vick certainly is due his day in court. But, it’s impossible to ignore the 54 dogs taken from his property, the dog fighting trinkets found on his property, and the fact that there are at least four cooperating federal witnesses.

If Vick is convicted, he deserves to go to prison for years, not months. And his NFL career should be over.

http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2007/08/02/news/columnists/doc46b2719d16702498858502.txt

[tubgirl]

A bait dog is an animal that is used, basically, as a living chew toy for the fighting dogs. The bait dogs, Ritter said, tend to be very good with people. It’s other dogs that scare them.

“They tend to be very nervous,” Ritter said. “They tend to cower – obviously they’ve been through some horrible trauma.”

In 2004, National Geographic News did a story on bait dogs in Pima County, Arizona.

People’s pets were being stolen in great numbers. Around the same time, the carcasses of domesticated animals were turning up, chewed up, in the desert. The local sheriff eventually was able to put two-and-two together.



something i never knew. fucking horrible behavior...

[DJ_Asia]

Sherman: Survivor of the dogfighting arena

TIFTON, Ga. —
Sherman is a happy dog now. He accompanies his owner to work and contentedly chews his bone while she works in her office. He likes to keep her in his sight and never strays too far from her for too long. He feels safe with her.

Sherman’s road to happiness was a tough one. He was one of seven dogs a former owner had placed in a lucrative dogfighting business.

Sherman learned early he would literally have to fight for his life. So fight he did. And he was very good at it. He has the battle scars to prove it.

Sherman’s life changed forever in November 2003, when a complaint was called into the Tift County Sheriff’s Office about a neighbor who was fighting dogs. Animal Control was called to accompany sheriff's officers to a home in rural Tift County.

“I saw six dogs when we got there,” said Regenia Wells, director of the Tifton-Tift County Animal Shelter. “I looked around some more and found another dog — Sherman — hiding inside a dog house. He was all bloody and chewed up real bad.”

Wells said Sherman was almost lifeless, was nothing but skin and bones and his wounds were all infected. “It was awful,” she said.

The dog was in such pitiful shape, Wells threw him over her shoulder and drove him straight to Larry Branch at Quailwood Animal Hospital. “Will you fix this dog?” she asked. She paid for the dog’s medical care out of her own pocket. He stayed at the vet’s overnight, and she picked him up and brought him to the animal shelter the next day.

Sherman, along with the other six fighting dogs, were lodged on “the holding side” of the shelter. Wells would go over and give Sherman his food and medications.

When she got busy and didn’t personally go feed Sherman, he quit eating.

“I called Dr. (David) Bedell and told him I needed him to come out here,” Wells said. When Bedell assessed the situation he told Wells, “You’ve got yourself a dog; he’s bonded with you.”

Wells protested. She had a dog at home and didn’t want another. “I liked him, but I didn’t want to take him home,“ Wells said. In time Wells relented and adopted Sherman. She also adopted one of Sherman’s fighting-mates and named him Diamond.

“Later, an inmate at the jail told me that Sherman had been in a fight on Sunday,” Wells said. “We had been out there to pick up the dogs the following Thursday. The inmate told me Sherman had won $10,000 in the fight that Sunday.”

Wells said Sherman is now her constant companion.

“He stays with me all the time. He just loves to be loved. He thinks he died and went to heaven,” Wells said.

She said she was also able to find homes for two of the other dogs. “Two of the dogs died,” she said. “They hemorrhaged to death. They were puppy mill mamas. But all the rest got homes.” She said one of the pit bulls went to a man in Norman Park who goes hog hunting and another one went to a man who just loved pit bulls.

Read more >>

http://www.alliednews.com/statenews/cnhinsall_story_213092640.html

good to see a happy story mixed in here...thanks for sharing :D

[jmt]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[DJ_Asia]

ok bro...those pix brought tears to my eyes...that is so fucked up!

[jmt]

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Realgirls4me]

Burwell hits another homerun with his latest take on the corosive culture of the hip-hop generation. I lifted some of my favorite lines. Like Burwell, I too am old enough to remember when many African-American athletes heeded the call to stand for something a lot more substantive and meaningful than the bling and freedom multimillion dollar contracts and endorsements could bring them. Clowns such as Pacman and Vick, and to a lesser extent by their selfish inactivity and lack of involvement in their communities, Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods, haven't a clue what their predecessors went through so they could have what they have today. Not a clue.


I’m old school enough to remember when we had no shortage of black athletes of true substance and positive images. We had men with social conscience and resolve like Jackie Robinson, Arthur Ashe, Tommie Smith, John Carlos, Muhammad Ali, Curt Flood, Jim Brown, Bill Russell and John Thompson who used to be our heroes. They were athletes and coaches with social consciousness who felt a responsibility to portray themselves with a sense of dignity, pride and purpose.
It wasn’t all about a multimillion-dollar shoe contracts. They had far more significant issues to handle. But somewhere between Jackie Robinson and Michael Vick, too many black athletes have gotten lost. In the words of Malcolm X, things have run amok, and we’ve been led astray.
I’ve written about this before, and so I want to be very precise with my words. For far too many modern black athletes, “keepin’ it real” has become the dangerous anthem that is threatening to destroy all the good that the previous generation of black athletes helped create...

... It’s a culture that created a new generation of minstrels who are just as dehumanizing as Amos and Andy or Stepin Fetchit. Now they come glamorizing thug life and prison fashion, legitimizing derogatory racial insults into the mainstream, and convincing an entire generation that the only measure of true blackness is a hard-core gangsta edge, and anyone who rejects this is either hopelessly out of touch or a sad Uncle Tom. So the Pacmans and Michael Vicks just can’t pull away from the street, can’t tear themselves away from so-called friends who have rewarded them for that loyalty by escorting them to a front-row seat in a federal courtroom, then rolling on them to the authorities.

[chefmike]

SPORT OF THUGS

Cruelty Thrives In Seedy Criminal Underground

Wayne Pacelle
August 1, 2007

In hideous detail, the case of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who pleaded not guilty Thursday to federal charges related to dogfighting, has given Americans an unobstructed view of a criminal underworld. This savage pastime is America's most criminalized form of animal cruelty - banned in 50 states, a felony in 48 of them, and, as of May, a federal felony. Forty-eight states and the District of Columbia also prohibit being a spectator at a dogfight. Yet dogfighting is proliferating in many parts of the country, as are the pit bulls enlisted as combatants.

Once confined to rural areas, dogfighting has found a welcome in urban communities and is often associated with gang activity, drug traffic and other social ills and vices. There are at least 10 underground dogfighting magazines, a growing selection of websites, and breeding operations with names such as Bad Newz Kennels, now made famous because of its association with Vick. The Humane Society of the United States estimates that there are at least 40,000 people who are professionals, hobbyists or street fighters - the three primary classes of dogfighters that we track.

For as long as human beings have had spare time on their hands, there has been a certain type of person who derives excitement and enjoyment from watching the violence and death of animals in staged combat. We think of the bloody spectacles of the Roman coliseum as the excesses of a distant age. Though the spectacles are less elaborate in our day, they continue, and in some corners of society they flourish.

In America, dogfights almost always involve pit bulls, which are bred for power, speed and aggressiveness. Training further hones their fighting instincts - including the use of bait animals killed by the pit bulls to instill a more intense killer instinct.

In organized dogfighting, dogs are taken "off the chain" and game-tested in a short match with another dog. Animals are often killed when they do not perform well, as the Vick indictment lays out in such disturbing details - with tested dogs hung, bludgeoned and even electrocuted in a vindictive act of disappointment.

For the dogs that are conscripted for full-on fights, they are faced off against a dog of equal weight in an enclosed pit, with spectators lining the perimeter. The referee yells "let's go" and the dogs collide in the middle, biting and attacking in a punishing display of athleticism and tenacity, often referred to as "gameness."

Some fights may last 20 minutes; others can drag on an hour or longer. The match usually continues as long as the animals keep fighting and holding. Sometimes both dogs succumb, often to blood loss or shock.

In the laws of our country, Americans have rejected this use of animals - because it is cruel in itself and a breeder of other vices. But as the Vick scandal has now reminded us, our laws protecting animals from abuse are still in need of serious enforcement.

Wayne Pacelle is president and chief executive of the Humane Society of the United States. He wrote this for The Washington Post.

[chefmike]

Michael Vick dogfighting case opens racial divide
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/20070803-1325-fbn-vick-race.html

SCLC making plans to honor Vick

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/08/03/vicksclc_0804.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Mike Vick Should Not Be Honored

http://www.thefalcoholic.com/story/2007/8/3/16313/09145

[chefmike]

Ugly World Of Dogfighting Uncovered In Westchester

'Floyd' The Pit Bull Found In Pool Of Blood In Mount Vernon
Cindy Hsu

(CBS) MOUNT VERNON We've all had a graphic look into the world of dogfighting with the arrest of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick.

Floyd, a pit-bull terrier, was found badly beaten on Tuesday. Carlo Vernia and Heidi Steinmann discovered him on the street in a pool of blood that now looks like oil stains.

"He was laying right in the middle of the street bleeding profusely," Steinmann said. "I thought he'd gotten hit by a car."

From the injuries, Investigators say it's clear Floyd was used as a "bait animal" to train dogs for fighting.

"Usually (someone) will muzzle the dog, so it can't defend itself and hurt the fighter," said Chief Ken Ross of SPCA Humane Law Enforcement. "And then they allow the dogs that are going to fight to train and attack the dog and tear it to shreds."

Floyd is recovering and he's one of the lucky ones. Nearly all bait animals end up dying with their throats and abdomens ripped out.

Sean D'Aloise rushed Floyd to the hospital, and was amazed at his reaction.

"He wasn't able to walk, but somehow he climbed himself off the seat and scurried over and put his head on my leg and just gave me a look," D'Aloise said.

Officials showed CBS 2 HD the wide array of tools used in dogfighting, and said it is particularly prevalent in Mount Vernon. So, on Friday Mayor Ernest Davis announced a permanent $500 reward for information leading to the arrest of dogfighters.

There's so much love for Floyd, that thanks to local business owners the reward for finding his abuser is now up to $2,500. To report dogfighting in Mount Vernon, please call (914) 941-7797.

As far as Floyd, after he fully recovers and is given a temperament test to make sure he can safely live with people, he'll be put up for adoption.

It will be a couple weeks before all testing is done to make sure Floyd is adoptable, but you can call the Mount Vernon Animal Care Center for information at (914) 665-2444.

http://wcbstv.com/pets/local_story_215174000.html

[Solitary Brother]

This dogfighting has unfortunately once again been attributed to blacks as a "ghetto" thing.
Unfortunately many black people are cool with this.
Look at how many defenders Vick has........almost ALL are black!
Its seems to me that my people always want to embrace or CREATE low culture.
I hate low class people of any race or culture but particularly hate when it is so brazenly promoted by blacks.
All this does is reinforce the perception(unfortunate as it is) that we are a low class sub human degenerate race of people.
Some of you all should go and read some of the racist rants by whites about Michael Vick attributing his actions to an ENTIRE people.
But I am a lone voice in the wilderness.
I hate that black people fall into this trap.......we can be SO MUCH more!

[Quinn]

This dogfighting has unfortunately once again been attributed to blacks as a "ghetto" thing.

I can tell you from personal experience that this isn't just a black ghetto thing; it's immensely popular among certain elements within the Hispanic community. If you go to Washington Heights there's a huge circuit there, and it's almost entirely composed of Dominicans.

-Quinn

[Realgirls4me]

This dogfighting has unfortunately once again been attributed to blacks as a "ghetto" thing.

I can tell you from personal experience that this isn't just a black ghetto thing; it's immensely popular among certain elements within the Hispanic community. If you go to Washington Heights there's a huge circuit there, and it's almost entirely composed of Dominicans.

-Quinn

Agreed. Trash comes in all races and colors.

[Quinn]

Agreed. Trash comes in all races and colors.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

-Quinn

[chefmike]

Vick charges speak to our humanity
By Wesley J. Smith
August 4, 2007


The arrest of football great Michael Vick for allegedly participating in a dog fighting/gambling ring has shocked the country.
The charges are horrendous: In a throwback to the brutality of the Roman arena in which wild animals were forced to fight and kill each other to the frenzy of the crowd, Vick and his co-conspirators, according to authorities, bred pit bulls to tear each other apart for human enjoyment and their own profit.

Dogs that lost fights or were deemed insufficiently aggressive were slaughtered cruelly by hanging, shooting or electrocution.

People are outraged at this scandal, and rightly so.

But few are asking why, exactly, we are so upset. For example, do we contend that the dogs acted wrongly by fighting each other to the death? Of course not. Only human beings have the capacity to understand right from wrong.

The pit bulls, vicious and dangerous as they were, only behaved as they were trained.

Then are we furious because, as animal-rights activists would have it, the victimized dogs had a "right" not to be treated in such a brutal fashion? No. Animals don't have rights. They can't even understand the concept.

Indeed, for rights to be true rights, they must apply universally.

Yet anyone seriously asserting that a lion violated a zebra's right to life by hunting it down would be laughed out of town.

So what was the real wrong allegedly committed here?

Simply stated, the purported crimes of Vick and his alleged co-conspirators are rightfully viewed as despicable because their brutal actions violated their (and our) humanity.

This conclusion springs from the extraordinary nature of human beings.

We are the only truly conscious and "free" species in the known universe. Only we have the true ability to choose. Indeed, our uniqueness and resulting special moral worth - sometimes referred to as human exceptionalism - is the prime philosophical foundation for establishing and enforcing universal rights premised simply upon being human.

But being the exceptional species does more than support human rights. It also imposes concomitant duties upon us.

As the only truly moral species to have ever evolved or been created - take your pick - we alone have the capacity to comprehend the grandeur and intrinsic value of animals.

After all, the elephant is incapable of looking at a cheetah or zebra with awe. Nor can the cat appreciate the beauty of the blue jay and the butterfly.

Moreover, unlike the orca that tosses a hapless seal through the air without a moment's consideration of the agony the prey is experiencing, only humans wince in revulsion when we see our fellow creatures suffer.

Indeed, this uniquely human capacity to empathize with and appreciate "the other" is one of the best things about us.

In contrast, if Vick and his cohorts trained dogs to rend each other mercilessly and brutally killed the animals whose natures were insufficiently vicious to win fights, and, moreover, did so merely to make money by satisfying a barbaric blood lust in their customers or to provide them with a gambling adrenaline rush, they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law and to be shunned socially as pariahs.

By treating helpless animals as if their pain did not matter, by engaging in such blatant cruelty, they not only inflicted inexcusable suffering and terror upon helpless, sentient beings, but, even worse, they besmirched the higher nature and noble calling of the human race.

Wesley J. Smith is a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute and a special consultant to the Center for Bioethics and Culture. He is currently writing a book about the animal rights movement.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_5658400,00.html

[chefmike]

SCLC: No honor for Vick
Head of civil rights group voiced only 'support' for Falcons QB

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 08/06/07

The Southern Christian Leadership Conference has backed off its vow to honor accused dogfighter Michael Vick at its convention this week.

"There is no award or no honoring of Michael Vick," said SCLC spokesman David Stokes.

http://www.ajc.com/wireless/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/06/vickhonor_0807.html

[chefmike]

Vick attorneys reportedly negotiating plea
Falcons QB would serve prison time if agreement reached
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution 08/14/07

Michael Vick's attorneys are engaged in plea negotiations with federal prosecutors and the Falcons quarterback could reach an agreement before new federal dogfighting charges are handed down next week, according to a person with knowledge of the negotiations.

The negotiations follow news that two more of Vick's three co-defendants are scheduled to enter guilty pleas later this week as part of a deal with prosecutors.

Collins Spencer, a spokesman for Vick's lawyers, declined to comment Tuesday on any possible negotiations.

He added that Vick did not meet with his attorneys last night but said they will have a conference call with Vick this morning and may have an announcement this afternoon. Spencer did not indicate what the announcement would be.

On Monday Spencer said the legal team was "very surprised" by the pleas from Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips and said they would not affect plans to move forward toward a Nov. 26 trial.

Vick's lead attorney, Billy Martin, could not be reached for comment.

If the announcement is that Vick has reached a plea agreement, the embattled star quarterback is expected to be sentenced to some time in prison, according to federal sentencing guidelines.

Vick's motivation to enter a guilty plea is likely fueled by the U.S. Attorney's Office announcement last month that it will seek a new "superceding" indictment against Vick by the end of August. With the cooperation of Vick's three co-defendants, there will likely be new, and more specific, allegations against Vick. The federal grand jury in Richmond is expected to hand up that indictment sometime early next week.

If Vick can reach an agreement by the end of this week, he would not have to answer to any additional charges.

This week, Vick learned that in the criminal justice system, friendship only goes so far.

On Monday, guilty plea hearings were scheduled for two of his co-defendants and long-time associates. Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, has a plea hearing scheduled for Thursday in U.S. District Court in Richmond at 9 a.m., while Phillips, 28, of Atlanta, has a plea hearing set for Friday at the same time. The hearings showed up Monday on U.S. District Court Judge Henry E. Hudson's docket.

The third co-defendant, Tony Taylor, 34, of Hampton pleaded guilty July 30 and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors in their case against Vick. Just days earlier, Taylor had joined Vick and the others in pleading not guilty.

Attorneys for both Peace and Phillips declined to comment Monday.

"There's no telling until the actual pleas, but this doesn't sound like good news for Michael Vick," said Kent Alexander, once the U.S. attorney in Atlanta and now Emory University's general counsel. "Usually, if people plead guilty early in a case they may be cooperating with the government. That's what it sounds like here."

A federal grand jury indicted the men last month on a single count of conspiracy to cross state lines to engage in illegal gambling; to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture; and to buy, transport and receive dogs for animal fighting.

They face up to five years in prison and $250,000 in fines, but defendants often receive more lenient punishment when they accept responsibility and enter guilty pleas.

A 13-page statement of facts Taylor signed with prosecutors last month says Vick, Peace and Phillips set up a business called "Bad Newz Kennels" in rural Surry County, Va., to raise and train pit bulls for dogfights.

It also says the men gambled on the fights in Virginia and several other states and that Vick almost exclusively funded the dogfighting operation and gambling monies.

At various times, Taylor, Peace and Phillips executed dogs they didn't think would fight well by shooting them, the statement says. The indictment issued earlier in July said Vick also executed dogs.

The plea deals for Taylor, Peace and Phillips emerged after federal prosecutors announced at their arraignment hearing last month that they would be seeking a superseding indictment, meaning they could name additional charges and defendants in the case. That indictment is expected to be announced before the end of this month.

Vick's jury trial is scheduled for Nov. 26, deep into the Falcons' schedule. The Falcons will have played 11 of their 16 regular-season games by then. Vick will remain free until the trial, but his availability to appear on field is unclear. The NFL barred Vick, with pay, from being with the team pending the outcome of its own investigation.

A call to Vick's agent, Joel Segal, was not returned Monday. The Falcons declined to comment on the latest developments in Vick's case.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is expected to make a decision on Vick's future in a few weeks. Goodell said he is waiting for a report from investigator Eric Holder before rendering a verdict, according to a league spokesman. No timetable has been set for Goodell's decision, NFL vice president of public relations Greg Aiello said.

Tailback Warrick Dunn, who spoke to Vick recently, said Falcons players are already of the mindset that they'll have to play without him.

"Mike is going to be missed, and he has been missed, but at the same time, you have to go on," he said.

Should Holder's report lead Goodell to determine Vick violated the NFL's player conduct policy, he could issue a suspension. Holder's report also could show that Vick did not violate the policy and that no league-ordered suspension or other discipline is warranted.

A high-ranking NFL team official said Goodell likely would meet with Vick or his legal representation before levying any suspension. Such a meeting has yet to take place.

Falcons owner Arthur Blank and president and general manager Rich McKay have said they had enough information to lead them to draw up papers to suspend Vick for four games — the maximum a team can suspend a player for disciplinary reasons. The league could suspend Vick for a year.

Blank and McKay also said there were discussions about cutting Vick.

Coach Bobby Petrino said Monday he had not been told of any developments from the NFL regarding a decision on Vick.

"I'm not aware of any recent updates on this situation," Petrino said.

"We've been proceeding as if — we have to — he's not going to be here, and we're doing the best we can at that."

[chefmike]

Celebrity Seen as Factor Regarding Vick, Poll Finds

Americans say Michael Vick’s high profile has led to preferential treatment from the authorities, and few say his profession is a disadvantage, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

Thirty-six percent of those familiar with the dogfighting allegations against Vick, the Atlanta Falcons’ star quarterback, said he was being treated better than an average person. Only 9 percent said Vick was being treated worse than an average person. The plurality, 44 percent, said Vick was being handled the same as anyone else.

“If all those dogs had been found buried in the yard of an average person, that person would have already been in jail,” Jackie Syron, 36, from Mesa, Ariz., said in a follow-up interview after the poll was completed. “It’s a heinous crime, but he’ll probably just get fines and probation.”

But Ethel Turner, 54, of Mount Pleasant, Tex., said Vick was being treated unfairly because of his celebrity. “There’s a movement against famous people these days,” she said. “They are being treated a little bit worse than the regular person.”

The nationwide telephone poll was conducted among 1,214 adults from Aug. 8 to 12.

Last month, Vick was indicted in Virginia on federal felony charges that he sponsored dogfighting, frequently gambled on dogfighting and authorized acts of cruelty against animals on property he owned.

Two of the three men indicted with Vick are expected to plead guilty in the case later this week. The other man indicted in the case pleaded guilty last month.

George Lynch, 84, of Center Ossipee, N.H., said he did not expect the case against Vick to fade away. “Dogfighting is not only illegal, but one of the worst forms of entertainment in the world,” he said. “These dogs are dangerous, and anyone making money off them, in addition to inhumane treatment of animals, is pretty low.”

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has organized protests at the Falcons’ headquarters in Flowery Branch, Ga., and at the N.F.L. offices in New York. “Vick is being treated unfairly because of the dog people,” said Henry Tate, 58, of Battle Creek, Mich. “PETA finally found someone they could picket and protest.”

The opinions of the football fans surveyed were similar to those of all respondents. But the poll found differences in the views of black and white respondents. Thirty-two percent of blacks said Vick was being treated worse than the average person, while only 6 percent of whites said he was being treated worse.

“People are rushing to judgment because he is an athlete,” said Gale Nattiel, 49, of Rushton, La. “I know a lot of athletes are black, but I don’t think it’s because of his race. It’s because he’s an athlete. If he were a regular Joe, nobody would care.”

Vick has remained on the Falcons’ payroll, but N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell barred him from training camp while the league completed a review of his case. Goodell is expected to announce any further discipline before the Falcons’ first regular-season game, Sept. 9 at Minnesota.

In the meantime, Vick’s sponsorship deals have fallen apart. Nike suspended its contract and Rawlings canceled its deal. Reebok pulled his jerseys off the market, Donruss removed his trading card from its sets, and Upper Deck removed his autographed memorabilia from its online store and removed him from its card sets as well.

Over all, the Americans surveyed approved of the N.F.L.’s disciplinary measures. Fifty-four percent of those polled said professional football players were being treated appropriately when they were suspended by the N.F.L. for misconduct off the field, 32 percent said the league was being too easy on them and only 4 percent said it was too tough.

Goodell suspended Tennessee Titans cornerback Pacman Jones for the season and Cincinnati Bengals receiver Chris Henry for the first eight games for repeated off-the-field conduct problems.

For purposes of analysis, blacks were oversampled in this poll, for a total of 169, who were then weighted back to their proper proportion in the poll, according to the most recent census. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points for all adults, and plus or minus 8 percentage points for blacks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/sports/football/14vick.html?em&ex=1187236800&en=aaf811e67c65e014&ei=5087%0A

[Solitary Brother]

Vick will do no time, might get a heavy slap on the wrist, but in this country where men & women get away with murder of other 'humans' based on trial technicalities on a daily basis.........................not a chance. Now his partners in crime might do some time behind bars, but Vick at best will get community service and a huge lawyers fee.


Sing it with me JWBL......


Stop HAMMER TIME!!!!!!!!!!

Your hero Michael Vick is as good as toast.

He will go to jail!!!!
And he should because he is a criminal!!!!!

Actually its the best thing that could happen to him since he will be locked away from the animal rights crazies and soccer moms who are already plotting his death.

He couldnt buy enough security to protect himself.
At work Michael Vick is the source of much head shaking and laughter.
All that talent and a tiny brain.

[DJ_Asia]

Vick will do no time, might get a heavy slap on the wrist, but in this country where men & women get away with murder of other 'humans' based on trial technicalities on a daily basis.........................not a chance. Now his partners in crime might do some time behind bars, but Vick at best will get community service and a huge lawyers fee.


Sing it with me JWBL......


Stop HAMMER TIME!!!!!!!!!!

Your hero Michael Vick is as good as toast.

He will go to jail!!!!
And he should because he is a criminal!!!!!

Actually its the best thing that could happen to him since he will be locked away from the animal rights crazies and soccer moms who are already plotting his death.

He couldnt buy enough security to protect himself.
At work Michael Vick is the source of much head shaking and laughter.
All that talent and a tiny brain.

My friends all seem to think he is finished in the NFL,and personally nothing would thrill me more,but I doubt that highly.

[chefmike]

Vick will outrun jail-time stigma
Ray Ratto

OK, cue the Michael Vick Forgiveness Clock ... starting ... now!

Vick, in conjunction with his legal team, has just seen the writing on the wall, which is in DayGlo letters 30 feet high that reads "YOU'RE GOING TO JAIL." They are, by all indications, negotiating a plea that will minimize his jail time and move him that much closer to what we are quite sure will be a semi-glorious return to the National Football League.

Depending, of course, on the frequency and abjectness of his apologies, and the depth and breadth of a team's needs behind center.

So we're all on the clock with Vick, seeking the answer to the complicated mathematical equation:

HC-M2/TS

That is, Heinousness of Crime minus Marketability squared, divided by Time Served.

And the answer to that is not infinity, and rarely more than 24 months.

In short, we have confidence in Vick's ability to do the perp walk, and in SportsWorld's ability to look the other way when circumstances require. The seemingly irreparable damage caused by the details of his arrest and indictment will be minimized just enough to make him publicly serviceable again, not because we value dogs less but because we value quarterbacks more.

Not all of us, mind you. There are many people who will find his acts unforgivable. There are, however, many more who desire Vick's entertainment value more, and if there's anything Americans like more than entertainment, it is more entertainment.

Look, kids, that's how it works. Vick runs a dog-fighting ring. His associates turn on him like the Joe Valachi Dance Team. He is left alone to allocate his involvement in the systematic and violent torture of dogs in his care, because he's the only one on the left side of the table. Everyone else is gone with the dew.

So the math is easy, but so is the way back, and it will happen sooner than you think. It will be termed as our generosity of spirit, of course, and his willingness to see the error of his ways, wrapped in the unbridled power of redemption, because that's what makes the story sound better for everyone involved. What it is, though, what it always has been, is America's ability to hear a dollar bill fluttering in the breeze.

In short, Michael Vick is not only not finished, but he will be a starting quarterback in the NFL again, probably by 2009 but surely no later than 2010. The heinousness of the crimes will have nothing to do with it, because he has a better chance to make some football team better than, say, John David Booty.

We know this to be true because Don Imus just won a wrongful-termination settlement from CBS and is about to start at WABC Radio in New York. We know this to be true because O.J. Simpson's soon-to-be-revolting book is going to be published after all. We know this to be true because Marv Albert is still the voice of the NBA.

We know this to be true because it is the American Way -- to make a fallen but marketable anti-hero into a marketable hero and pass it off as nobility.

Tuesday's news headlines just happened to commingle to remind us of that fact, especially the news that Vick just rolled on himself. The waves of outrage that came from the gruesome indictment details already made his exoneration a long shot, and when his friends bailed on him, no doubt confronted by evidence they could not escape themselves, he had nothing left to do but cop the plea.

But the cries that he is surely finished as an admirable figure in American sport ignore the fact that nobody is finished as an admirable figure in American sport, as long as that figure still can fill some marketing/profit-generating void. Vick has skills in a rarefied avenue of athletic endeavor -- NFL quarterback -- and though he is not everything he was advertised to be, he is still more useful than, conservatively, 20 of the 32 starters in the league.

His return, of course, is dependent upon a new owner's ability to sell him as fully repentant, and upon his basic affordability, but those are logistical issues. He presumably will go on the requisite apology tour (anyone who can plead out can plead, after all), and then his agent will find a place where his skills can trump his rap sheet.

Is this right? Depends on your view of how long someone must be punished for his crimes, your definition of forgiveness, and the state of your fantasy-league team. We long ago stopped seeing the wisdom in seeking out morality plays in athletics, because the phrase "purity of motive" never seems to settle any debate. It's all in what you can get by with, what you believably can sell.

So the Michael Vick Forgiveness Clock is on, and someone with a greater sense of public-relations equilibrium than you or I will bring him back to first face, and then play, the music. Lessons might be learned, but the first one remains, "He who can be sold to the audience, will be sold."

This article appeared on page D - 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle

[chefmike]

Vick plea deal likely
Source says 'good chance he will plead guilty'
08/15/07

Richmond, Va. — Facing the possibility of a new indictment, which includes racketeering charges, Falcons quarterback Michael Vick will most likely join his three co-defendants and agree this week to a plea deal with prosecutors in his federal dogfighting case, according to two people with knowledge of the case.

http://www.ajc.com/falcons/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/15/vick_0816.html

[chefmike]

Time for Vick to finally come clean
With government closing in, Falcons QB needs to tell us what he did

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20255876/

[chefmike]

If the feds believe a $130 million player can be a useful symbol against animal abuse, who can blame them?

There’s no black and white: Vick is horrific if guilty
Jerry Sullivan

As of Saturday afternoon, Michael Vick still had not decided whether to cop a plea in his federal dogfighting case. Vick, the most elusive quarterback of his time, was still on his feet, trying to decide whether to keep scrambling or to drop to his knees and concede he has no sensible avenues of escape.

The evidence against Vick is said to be overwhelming. Two of his co-defendants took pleas Friday. Quanis Phillips and Purnell Peace pleaded guilty to conspiracy in a dogfighting ring and agreed to testify against the star quarterback. They told prosecutors that Vick was the chief financier of the operation, and that he personally took part in the execution of eight pit bulls that had performed below expectations.

Vick is in big trouble if the accusations are true. The charges against him will get more serious if he decides not to take a plea. If a superseding indictment is handed down, it will include charges of racketeering, which could mean a sentence of five years or more if Vick is convicted.

There’s sentiment for Vick to take the plea, limiting his possible jail time to about one year and allowing him to get back in the NFL in a year or two — assuming Commissioner Roger Goodell doesn’t slap Vick with a lifetime ban.

I’m hoping Vick calls all of his high-priced attorneys into a huddle and decides to fight the charges. Vick is innocent until proven guilty. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. But if he really did bankroll a dogfighting operation on his property, he deserves to sit in court while the world hears every last detail of this ghastly and despicable enterprise.

I say this with some trepidation, at the risk of being branded a racist. Last week, a Southern newspaper editor, a friend I know and respect, asked if I was going to write about Vick. He told me not to pile on Vick, like all the other white sports columnists.

“It’s only dogs,” he said. Then he pointed out that there are countless “old white guys” around the country who do the same thing. They watch dogs rip each other to pieces in the name of gambling and entertainment. It’s not just Vick.

That’s the sad truth. Dogfighting is a rising scourge in America. Wayne Pacelle, the president of the Humane Society of the United States, said in a blog that there are thousands of dogfighting enthusiasts in the country. Pacelle said the Vick case has raised awareness of the issue.

For the sake of all those poor, helpless dogs, that’s a good thing. If the feds believe a $130 million NFL player can be a useful symbol in the battle against animal abuse, who can blame them? Certainly not anyone who ever showed affection for a pet or felt genuine love in return.

According to the horrific court testimony, underperforming dogs were hung from trees in the woods behind Vick’s property and left to die. Vick allegedly took one of the surviving dogs and drowned it in a bucket of water. Other dogs were executed by electrocution or being slammed repeatedly to the ground.

Just boys being boys, right? I’m told dogfighting is hot in the rap music culture. Supposedly, Vick thought it was cool and honorable, an accepted pastime in his circle. Deion Sanders wrote a column in a Florida paper, explaining that Vick had a “passion” for dogfighting. Sanders said he knows many athletes who share that passion.

So what I’m hearing is that dogfighting is popular among a segment of young black men. And because I’m holding Vick up as an example — instead of white men — I’m an insensitive racist out of touch with young urban culture.

Look, I know there’s racism in this country. Sometimes, it seems we’ve gone backward since Martin Luther King. I hear the strains of bigotry in some white sports fans’ voices when they talk about black sports stars. I’ve been in bars when people looked around to make sure everyone was white before telling some racist joke.

But I’m a sportswriter. A lot of the players I cover — and criticize — are black. I try to be fair. I know some black athletes (Bruce Smith, for one) feel white media don’t treat them fairly. Willis McGahee probably felt white reporters didn’t understand that Buffalo is not the most happening party place for a young black man.

That didn’t make McGahee any less a goofball in my eyes. I’m not going to stop calling out athletes when it’s warranted. Right is right, and dogfighting is a felony in 48 states. It’s inhumane. If Vick bankrolled the operation, he should go to jail and be banned from the NFL for life.

If Vick is being singled out, so be it. Black or white, we ought to do a better job of choosing our heroes. Give him his day in court. I’d like to understand how torturing and killing helpless dogs allows you to feel like a big man.

jsullivan@buffnews.com

[chefmike]

NFL's Vick Agrees To Plead Guilty


Michael Vick agreed yesterday to plead guilty to the federal dogfighting charges against him, a move that could land the Atlanta Falcons star quarterback in prison and leaves his once-dynamic football career shrouded in uncertainty.

Vick is scheduled to appear Monday in U.S. District Court in Richmond, according to his attorneys and the court's docket. Sources familiar with the case said he is expected to plead guilty to a single conspiracy count and that the recommended sentencing guideline range will be 12 to 18 months in prison. The sources spoke on the condition of anonymity because the plea deal's terms were not publicly announced.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/20/AR2007082002030.html

If a reprehensible individual like Vick gets a sweetheart deal like that it's an outrage. There are people serving many years in jail for such vile conduct, as should Vick. He is also responsible for the dogs seized(60 or 70) that will have to be put down due to the brutality inflicted on them by Vick and his lowlife friends. What a bunch of sick fucks.

[Ben]

Attending Dog Fights is Now a Federal Crime - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVggqRNnlMw)