Do Transsexuals understand Men better?

[Odelay]

[My apologies if this topic has been explored in an earlier thread (links please)...]

I've never read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, and I never will, but in my considerable years of experience I have found some general differences between how I like to enjoy life and the expectations of various female partners I have had through the years.

What I'm wondering is if the experience of at least being born a male gives transsexuals a special advantage of relating to men as sexual/romantic partners? Or, does the transformation to a female form also largely include an emotional and intellectual transformation to that of a woman? Or, does the early recognition in life, e.g. pre-pubescent, that a boy discovers in wanting to be a woman sort of negate any insight into the male psyche?

Okay... I'll try to generalize what I'm talking about in regards to men. These are generalizations... there are always exceptions.

1-Space. There are times that guys simply don't want to have to check in. Just because a guy doesn't check in with his gf for three days doesn't mean he's screwing around on her. But most women I've been with want to know what I'm doing all the time. And if I don't check in then I'm an insensitive cad in her eyes.

2-Feelings. There are sometimes that guys simply don't know what the hell they're feeling. Why is "I don't know", not an acceptable response? But inevitably when pushed about how I feel about somethinng by a gf, I tend to make stuff up. How is that useful to her?

3-Laziness. Most guys aren't lazy all the time, but sometimes it's enjoyable playing computer games all day, or watch college football all day, or zoning on music all day. I've been given plenty of odd looks by gf's when initiating a day of laziness.

4-Sports. Not really necessary to explain, and not the problem that sitcoms like to make of it. All of the gf's I've had have understood the sports obsession to some degree and given me space around it. But then again, I've never had a gf who actually enjoyed talking "sports" on a detailed level like I do with almost every one of my guy friends.

5-Sex. Not really sure what the generalization is here. Maybe there isn't one. Some women like sex or porn or masturbation every bit as much or more than men. They can have the same hangups, etc. And our culture has explored this topic from every angle to the point where any man or woman is fairly aware of any differences. I guess one thing would be strip clubs. What's the big deal? But I don't bring it up with gf's to avoid an argument.

6-Shopping. Not really sure this is a problem either. Women know that many guys find this activity bone rattling boring and don't bother attempting to drag bf's along. When on vacation I pretty much expect to have to tag along once or twice but that gives me the credit needed to go off and do something else like body surfing or whatever while she takes her 3rd or 4th or 5th trip to the stores.

Don't get me wrong here... I like some of the general personality differences between men and women. For the most part, I love the personalities of the women I'm with. It's just that sometiimes I go all Henry Higgins and start wondering... "Why can't a woman be more like a man?" :twisted:

[TrueBeauty TS]

All you need to do is understand yourself. Once you figure yourself out, then don't worry about anyone else.

Nobody knows what goes on in the mind of any other human being so don't waste your time.



.

[crayons]

I've always considered the statement that transsexual girls understand men better than non-transsexual girls to be bullshit. From the guy who lived with me for 9 weeks, "You are no different than any other girlfriend I've ever had" He had some concern that living with me for an extended period of time he would see or notice something about my behavior that would tell him otherwise but I never did. What do you expect? To me it's all relative based on the people involved and that's it.

i'm with you on this. i find these stupid arguments like "trannssexuals are better than gg's because..." so fucking juvenile because:
a). if transsexual are women then how can they be better than women
b). generalization
c). they aren't better or worse than...

shit like this is just stupid propaganda for whatever baseless reason you need to feel important.

[Odelay]

I've always considered the statement that transsexual girls understand men better than non-transsexual girls to be bullshit. From the guy who lived with me for 9 weeks, "You are no different than any other girlfriend I've ever had" He had some concern that living with me for an extended period of time he would see or notice something about my behavior that would tell him otherwise but I never did. What do you expect? To me it's all relative based on the people involved and that's it.

i'm with you on this. i find these stupid arguments like "trannssexuals are better than gg's because..." so fucking juvenile because:
a). if transsexual are women then how can they be better than women
b). generalization
c). they aren't better or worse than...

shit like this is just stupid propaganda for whatever baseless reason you need to feel important.

Not really sure where your hostility is coming from. I just posted this as a topic of conversation, not as some "propoganda". There's no discernible agenda in what I wrote above. I haven't pre-answered the question. Nor am I assuming that the answer is "yes". Yes I use some generalizations about men and women but I label them clearly.

Does the dick still want to fuck anything that moves?

That should be the topic of this thread. Who gives a fuck about sports? Seriously? Who cares about the weather? Let's get down to meat and potatoes. The truth is that it kicks ass to be able to take a leak standing up!

[hwbs]

a good resoution 4 this board should be doing , instead of thinking about doing....i haven wasted a minute thinking on this topic and it has served me well :wink: ...

[peggygee]

[My apologies if this topic has been explored in an earlier thread (links please)...]

I've never read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, and I never will, but in my considerable years of experience I have found some general differences between how I like to enjoy life and the expectations of various female partners I have had through the years.

What I'm wondering is if the experience of at least being born a male gives transsexuals a special advantage of relating to men as sexual/romantic partners? Or, does the transformation to a female form also largely include an emotional and intellectual transformation to that of a woman? Or, does the early recognition in life, e.g. pre-pubescent, that a boy discovers in wanting to be a woman sort of negate any insight into the male psyche?

Okay... I'll try to generalize what I'm talking about in regards to men. These are generalizations... there are always exceptions.

1-Space. There are times that guys simply don't want to have to check in. Just because a guy doesn't check in with his gf for three days doesn't mean he's screwing around on her. But most women I've been with want to know what I'm doing all the time. And if I don't check in then I'm an insensitive cad in her eyes.

2-Feelings. There are sometimes that guys simply don't know what the hell they're feeling. Why is "I don't know", not an acceptable response? But inevitably when pushed about how I feel about somethinng by a gf, I tend to make stuff up. How is that useful to her?

3-Laziness. Most guys aren't lazy all the time, but sometimes it's enjoyable playing computer games all day, or watch college football all day, or zoning on music all day. I've been given plenty of odd looks by gf's when initiating a day of laziness.

4-Sports. Not really necessary to explain, and not the problem that sitcoms like to make of it. All of the gf's I've had have understood the sports obsession to some degree and given me space around it. But then again, I've never had a gf who actually enjoyed talking "sports" on a detailed level like I do with almost every one of my guy friends.

5-Sex. Not really sure what the generalization is here. Maybe there isn't one. Some women like sex or porn or masturbation every bit as much or more than men. They can have the same hangups, etc. And our culture has explored this topic from every angle to the point where any man or woman is fairly aware of any differences. I guess one thing would be strip clubs. What's the big deal? But I don't bring it up with gf's to avoid an argument.

6-Shopping. Not really sure this is a problem either. Women know that many guys find this activity bone rattling boring and don't bother attempting to drag bf's along. When on vacation I pretty much expect to have to tag along once or twice but that gives me the credit needed to go off and do something else like body surfing or whatever while she takes her 3rd or 4th or 5th trip to the stores.

Don't get me wrong here... I like some of the general personality differences between men and women. For the most part, I love the personalities of the women I'm with. It's just that sometiimes I go all Henry Higgins and start wondering... "Why can't a woman be more like a man?" :twisted:


As with all things in life, your mileage may vary. :shrug

The problem in answering in your question is that there is not a 'average'
transsexual. Transwomen, their viewpoints and their experiences run
a wide gamut.

There is a wide range of variables;

For instance, a newly transitioned women may have a different 'herstory'
from one who has lived the majority of her life as a women. The recent
transitioner will have had far more stereotypical male experiences.

Then too, there is the degee to which the transsexual identifies with her
'adopted' gender. Some women maintain many of the vestiges of their
previous life, their hobbies, sexual proclivities, sports interests, etc. Some
transwomen were gender neutral in the past existences, some were
fairly masculine, some had feminine interests.

I also feel that it is important to point out that not all who are deemed
transsexual, whether by themselves or by others are accurately
categorized as such, but rather may lie elsewhere under the transgender
umbrella.

On your specific points about space, feelings, laziness, sports, sex, and
shopping, I would like to offer some personaal comments.

On space: I feel people should have space, they shouldn't be joined at
the hip, indeed the parties should have their own lifes and interests. And
while my SO doesn't have to check in with me like I'm his PO, the
dissapearing for days on end without an explanation wouldn't work for
me, nor would it be something that I would do to them.

Chillaxing, vegging, I'm down with that, either solo or with my SO.

Feelings: Yeah the person needs to be emotionally availible, in touch with
their feelings, andd not have a problem communicating them.

Sports, can't say I'm a big sports fan, enjoy watching, participating in
some more than others.

Sex: With someone I care about, I can be flexible - in all senses of the word. :oops:

Shopping, I'd rather go alone, or at least with someone who knows my
approach to it. So I usually only go with people who know me 'really' well.

[BrendaQG]

I agree with Peggy.

I lived as a femboy/ts girl until I was 21. After that circumstances that I have explained often enough lead me to really try and live as a male for about 4.5 years. If I were asked this question at about 20 I would have agreed with LeoraMoore.

The differences aren't anything that a boyfriend would notice. They are internal and I have noticed them. I thought that men acted they way they did for one reason. Living as a man taught me it was a totally different reason.

Let me give you an example. Shopping for a suit.

When living as a male the shoes, shirts, belts, pants and jackets were all placed close together and pre-matched. It's made convenient, quick, and idiot proof. In places where it is not (like a mens store... don't say boutique) there are plenty of employees there to help you. Those are all good things. The trade off is that mens wear is much more like a uniform, less variety in every way.

Where as a woman shopping for business wear is much more complex, interesting, and fun. Just by it's very nature. Women have to think skirt or pants, heels or flats, or would a conservative enough dress and a sweater be business enough... and so on. Then all of the elements of a woman's suit may well be spread all over different departments. We like to shop because we have more choices in clothing. Thus it takes more time.

So even if you take your boyfriend shopping for clothes for the same occasion he will be done in 1/2 the time or less. He's done and mystified about why it's taking you so long. So what does he do? Probably goes to look at tools, or electronics, or eat or whatever... I mean really how riveting can watching someone else buy clothes that you have no interest in be? After waiting around for 1/2 hours anyone would get bored.

So speaking for myself I can understand where a man would be coming from in those situations.

[Ecstatic]

Nice question, Odelay, given the six subsets you split it into, which are societal stereotypes of male/female behavior but which are by no means lockstep for either. And great replies from Leora, True, Peggy and Brenda. Here's a few thoughts of mine on the subject:

1-Space. I think men and women both need space, but their sense of personal space can be quite different. Rather than look at generalizations, however, in my case my wife and I both value our personal space, and both want our time together and our time apart. We often take separate vacations, depending on what we want to do: if we both want to visit the same place or people, we'll go together, but we also love having a week to ourselves. I'll go camping, hiking, kayaking, or off to the city to visit friends, while one of her favorite things is simply quiet time at home.

2-Feelings. Eh. Guys know what they're feeling. They simply don't know how to articulate it. They often prefer to act on their feelings rather than talk about them. But then they'll often want to talk about their feelings, too. Depends on the guy and the situation. As a rule of thumb, women are more apt to talk about their feelings, and for much longer than men, but it's a sliding scale for both.

3-Laziness. Women are just as lazy as men; it's what they're lazy about that differs, and that's really a very individual thing, not a gender difference.

4-Sports. I'm not into professional or team sports at all. OK, I follow the Red Sox a little, but I can never tell you how many games ahead or behind they are (I think currently they're like 9 or 10 games in the lead in the AL East? Or was that last week?). My wife has even less interest than I do. But I've known lots of women--GG and TG--who love sports and follow them. For me, sports are individual: biking, kayaking, hiking, and other things like that, and several women in my life are just as into those activities as I am.

5-Sex. The rule of thumb is men want sex and women want romance. Men "read" Playboy and women read Harlequin Romances. There's some truth to that, but it's also true that many women (GG or TG) love sex as much as any man and pursue it. I think there's more of a bias for casual sex for more men than there is for women (TG or GG), but it's not a given.

As for whether TG's understand a man's sexuality better than a GG, I defer to Peggy's comments re: different transwomen, how recently they transitioned, how male-identified they were or weren't prior to transition, what sex means to them, etc. However, there are certain physiological similarities (such as the prostate, massaging which either directly or through anal intercourse can be extremely pleasurable to a man but which a genetic woman would never experience) which can lead to better appreciation of male sexuality. How and whether this translates into sexual activity depends on the transwoman as an individual; if she enjoyed oral sex prior to transition (particularly prior to SRS if she has had SRS), then quite possibly she may have superior technique, but then many GG's have amazing techniques because as individuals they are really sensitive to what excites their partner and that's what counts.

6-Shopping. If I'm transgender in any way, this is probably it. I love to shop. It doesn't matter if I don't plan to buy anything or have no target in mind; I can spend hours looking at all the alternatives, whether in clothing, gadgets, books, equipment, whatever. My wife OTOH hates shopping; she gets impatient to leave the store literally within 10 to 15 minutes of arriving. She wants the item she needs to be prominently displayed, clearly marked as what she wants, at an acceptable price, and she's out of there. No interest whatsoever in correlative shopping ("Hey, honey, look at this googaw..." "Please, can we go home now?").

[SarahG]

Let me give you an example. Shopping for a suit.

When living as a male the shoes, shirts, belts, pants and jackets were all placed close together and pre-matched. It's made convenient, quick, and idiot proof. In places where it is not (like a mens store... don't say boutique) there are plenty of employees there to help you. Those are all good things. The trade off is that mens wear is much more like a uniform, less variety in every way.

Where as a woman shopping for business wear is much more complex, interesting, and fun. Just by it's very nature. Women have to think skirt or pants, heels or flats, or would a conservative enough dress and a sweater be business enough... and so on. Then all of the elements of a woman's suit may well be spread all over different departments. We like to shop because we have more choices in clothing. Thus it takes more time.

So even if you take your boyfriend shopping for clothes for the same occasion he will be done in 1/2 the time or less. He's done and mystified about why it's taking you so long. So what does he do? Probably goes to look at tools, or electronics, or eat or whatever... I mean really how riveting can watching someone else buy clothes that you have no interest in be? After waiting around for 1/2 hours anyone would get bored.


I think your clothes shopping example has alot of validity to it, but having designed store layouts before, it was apparent- at least to me, that guys and girls do tend to shop differently even when the store's products are not classified into departments differently based on gender.

[peggygee]

Nice question, Odelay, given the six subsets you split it into, which are societal stereotypes of male/female behavior but which are by no means lockstep for either. And great replies from Leora, True, Peggy and Brenda. Here's a few thoughts of mine on the subject....



By Jove, he's got it!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/holmesrev.jpg

No wonder women get along with him so well. :wink:

[tgirlzoe]

My thoughts:

1 - Space: I'm not paranoid, I just like to be with the man I'm in love with, why is that hard to understand? Sure, everyone needs space to some degree but if you love me, don't you want to be with me? On the other hand, jealousy from either party is a big "no no" for me. I don't cheat with or on anyone and that's always been my rule and you don't need to be controlling about it (same for women who are jealous of their men).

2 - Feelings: I don't mean to come off self-centered, I just need someone to talk to. I don't need advice, necessarily, it's just the talking that's important because it builds intimacy.

3 - Laziness: I'm lazy and I avoid work, don't most people? I want to work on the things that are interesting, not cleaning the toilet. But, there's a difference between laziness and just being a bump on a log. Get up, get stuff done. Men are supposedly the active, yang force, right? So do something :-P

4 - Sports: I'm not into sports. I mean, like I can enjoy playing recreational sports like tennis or whatever just for fun but watching them is not too interesting. Of course, there are plenty of women who are interested in sports, I had a roommate in the dorms who was all wrappd up in the superbowl, I think it was (I was paying a whole lot of attention ^-^). If you enjoy watching them, also see above.

5 - Sex: I love sex. I love having that very close one-on-one time where the world falls away and nothing matters, no stress, just love and desire. I love the feel of a man in bed, his density, his energy, his smell. If you aren't just all boring and stupid and begging to get off if I'm not interested in having sex, then that's a huge turnoff then and for ever more. Don't do it, at all. Entice, seduce, ravish.

As for strip clubs, still keeping with the anti-jealousy thing, they're a big problem for a monogamous relationship. If you're dating me, why would you be looking at other women? This quickly leads to feelings of worthlessness and self-doubt for a woman. The same thing applies to porn (although I'm more okay with it if it's open and shared and not a dirty secret, it can even be sexy to watch together or whatever). Are you monogamous or not?

6 - Shopping: What's the issue? Shopping makes me feel good. I'm a consumer whore, I know. At least I try to stick to used clothing stores (consignment, thrift stores, vintage, etc). It's fun and it makes for good outings with the girls.

~~~

I think, for the most part, trans women are like non-trans women. Like, yes, we understand what penises are like, we have (or had) one but it's not necessarily the same reactions and interests for men.

We had, to some degree, an inside look at boys because we were raised as one and had friends who saw us as boys at least until 14, 16, 18 or whenever we decided to radically alter our bodies so people would stop thinking we were boys. It's like middle-school boys would say that they wished they could be invisible so they could go in the girls' locker rooms and watch. Well, we were the invisible girls in the boys' locker rooms.

As I think is obvious, trans women were never normal boys. To a greater or lesser degree, our lives were controlled by our parents ~ whether they (even reluctantly) let us live as we wanted to or kept pushing to try to make us more masculine. Like tomboys forced to wear frilly dresses to church, we were forced to wear clothes and act in ways that were, in many ways, the opposite of what was natural for us.

I'm not claiming a total "woman trapped in a man's body" thing. We were certainly different but being a girly boy is different from being a girl. I was very much an outcast all my life because of the way I acted and looked. When I transitioned, I stopped confusing people and I was able to be more a part of society than I was before because they didn't treat me so much as a freak but just a girl. That's when the womanhood develops, just as it would for any other woman. It's a social thing.

I don't know if I explained myself very well but that's kinda how I feel. I think women, trans or not, should be open to how their man feels and acts just as men should be open to how their partner feels and acts. People are all different, just be understanding and listen.

[ptyseminole]

I think that TSs think and behave like GGs, meaning that they don't necessarily understand men better.

[dan_drade]

All I can say is...
If Men are from Mars, and Women are from Venus....That Makes Transsexuals the only ones from Earth.

[Odelay]

Zoe, Peggy, Brenda, Sarah, Ecstatic, Leora, everyone, thanks for your replies. All interesting takes on this topic.


All you need to do is understand yourself. Once you figure yourself out, then don't worry about anyone else.

Nobody knows what goes on in the mind of any other human being so don't waste your time..

TrueBeauty I don't know your name (if you ever divulged it) but I really agree with this. No matter who I am with in the future, regardless of gender or orientation, I hope to stay true to my own nature. I am big on self-examination. And I realize if a person I love has huge problems with me and needs me to change in significant ways, then that person ultimately is not for me. All of the rest of the differences can be handled. And my generalizations above are not a plea for excusing lack of communication in a relationship. I know it's key. The trick is relating to one another well without any suffocation.

[Luna555]

...

[Tomfurbs]

Quote < 'I think every girl is different...'>




I think every person is different. The opening post of this thread made some pretty large generalisations about men too...

[Ecstatic]

By Jove, he's got it!

No wonder women get along with him so well. :wink:
Too well, Peggy: they all want to be friends, lol. j/k

Thanks. Coming from you, that's a very high compliment indeed.

[Ecstatic]

It's like middle-school boys would say that they wished they could be invisible so they could go in the girls' locker rooms and watch. Well, we were the invisible girls in the boys' locker rooms.
Great observations, and well articulated, Zoe. This one in particular caught my eye: I never thought of it this way before.

[jniowa]

I don't know about TS understanding men better. Do you think so because they penises? They may have some more insight when it comes to sex. I mean they have a penis so maybe they know what feels better. But they identify as women and think like women and if they are taking hormones they definitely think more like gg. I feel like they would be the same as dating a gg. Not sure tho, never dated a TS.