The Bible is...

[Rogers]

The Bible is... nothing more than A history of the Jews.

At least that's my opinion. Please feel free to strengthen or weaken my belief.

As an agnostic who had a strong Christian upbringing, I have no intention of offending anyone here, only in sparking an informed debate. Please try and keep it clean, and no preaching, please!

[SmashysmashY]

I think history is kind of a strong word to be using here. I remember someone posting on slashdot that Christianity is the belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father will make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that he is your master, so that he will remove a curse from you that was placed there when a woman made out of a rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magic tree.

If the bible is a history of the jews then I guess clash of the titans is a history of the greeks.

[Rogers]

If the bible is a history of the jews then I guess clash of the titans is a history of the greeks.
Thanks for the reply, SmashysmashY. I did state, "A history of the Jews". I'm not claiming it is a definitive history. Although I think more than a few people are claiming that it is unquestionable history.

[North_of_60]

I always try to stay away from these religious threads since I've been known to offend many believers and faithfuls around me.
But I must say they constantly offend me with their nonsense. So, what the heck, it's Sunday...

The Bible is no history, it's a tool.

An irrelevant one, aburd and...yes, repulsive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y

[muhmuh]

well you will have to admit that it contains a few novel ethical ideas for the times which havent really lost much of their novelty and truth in todays world

[LG]

Not the Bible, just the Old Testament. And not really a history but a small selection of truths and of myths present as truths and told with a religious agenda.

[North_of_60]

well you will have to admit that it contains a few novel ethical ideas for the times which havent really lost much of their novelty and truth in todays world

Meaning ?
Such as... slavery, sexism and lapidation ? This is what we learn from the ten commandments.

Of course, no occidental can deny his "jewish" heritage ; opposing hope to ancient greek fatalism. But, come on, you know what I'm talking about : "(...) one must imagine Sisyphus happy." Who can rely on a very old book written by men who lived so long ago they thought they were 900 years old or something ?

The Bible is irrelevant in our modern times.

[muhmuh]

Meaning ?
Such as... slavery, sexism and lapidation ? This is what we learn from the ten commandments.

1) old testament != the whole bible
2) most of leviticus != 10 commandments... most of it is thrown right into the trash in the sermon on the mount anyway
3) be resonable or this will lead nowhere


Who can rely on a very old book written by men who lived so long ago they thought they were 900 years old or something ?

excuse me what ?


The Bible is irrelevant in our modern times.

how exactly are
Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness
and several other core teachings irrelevant today?

[North_of_60]

Reasonable ? Reason and faith are like water and oil.

Thou shalt not murder... but stone everyone who dosen't believe in God, commits adultery or curse the name of his faher.

The Bible demands that you :

- Kill everyone who works on the Sabbath
- Kill teenager who drink too much
- Enslave people of other nation
- Oppress women
- Kill people who happen to be homosexual
- The list goes on and on.

That's what I call irrelevant


Who can rely on a very old book written by men who lived so long ago they thought they were 900 years old or something ?

excuse me what ?

That was some kind of humoristic to me... Maybe just an idiomatic error from a non-english speaking person. Sorry. How old was Abraham, déjà ?

[muhmuh]

Reasonable ? Reason and faith are like water and oil.

Thou shalt not murder... but stone everyone who dosen't believe in God, commits adultery or curse the name of his faher.

The Bible demands that you :

- Kill everyone who works on the Sabbath
- Kill teenager who drink too much
- Enslave people of other nation
- Oppress women
- Kill people who happen to be homosexual
- The list goes on and on.

That's what I call irrelevant


1) old testament != the whole bible
2) most of leviticus != 10 commandments... most of it is thrown right into the trash in the sermon on the mount anyway

a theologician once taught me that the only thing the bible tells you about ethical decisions (after throwing everything from leviticus right out the window in the sermon on the mount) is "Love your neighbour as yourself."
whichever way you play it this is a pretty good commandment and this would be a much nicer place to be if everyone actually lived according to it


That was some kind of humoristic to me... Maybe just an idiomatic error from a non-english speaking person. Sorry. How old was Abraham, déjà ?

no idea how old hes supposed to have been and i dont care much either

[SmashysmashY]

a theologician once taught me that the only thing the bible tells you about ethical decisions (after throwing everything from leviticus right out the window in the sermon on the mount) is "Love your neighbour as yourself."
whichever way you play it this is a pretty good commandment and this would be a much nicer place to be if everyone actually lived according to it

“What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.”
Deuteronomy 12:32 KJV


“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.”
Matthew 5:17 KJV

The first problem that you will encounter when you try to defend the bible is that it says what it says already. As hard as you try to defend it, it will work equally hard to contradict you. It cannot be defended without prevarication. The second problem is that there can be no authority for you to appeal to in making these moral or ethical claims. If something is right or wrong because god said so then it is arbitrary. And if it is for another reason then why talk about god at all? It’s completely irrelevant. It’s the euthyphro dilemma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

Of course I take a non-cognitivist position so if you want to talk to me about god at all you need to offer a coherent definition of what a god is. If you figure one out skip the shemale forum and go collect your Nobel Prize.

[Quinn]

The first problem that you will encounter when you try to defend the bible is that it says what it says already. As hard as try try to defend it, it will work equally hard to contradict you. It cannot be defended with prevarication. The second problem is that there can be no authority for you to appeal to in making these moral or ethical claims. If something is right or wrong because god said so then it is arbitrary. And if it is for another reason then why talk about god at all? It’s completely irrelevant.

Very well said, Smashy. The above nicely sums up my view on the matter.

-Quinn

[TJT]

Screw Wikipedia. You folks need to go to this sight to learn the truth about the Bible.www.landoverbaptist.org

[SmashysmashY]

Hey, sorry about that edit. I meant without prevarication not with. But I think the point is that you cant offer me a book that is filled with the most abhorrent, vile, disgusting, atrocious things I’ve ever read coupled with some incredibly flagrant insults to my intelligence and then say ‘well, the real point is love your neighbor.’

That is nowhere near good enough to make up for all the despicable things written in there (and if you’ve never read it, please do, I assure you that you will not be a christian for long unless you are delusional). Even if you said “the real point is never hurt anyone,” I would still ask “then why is all that other crazy shit in there?”

But guess what? People loved their neighbors before it was written; people loved their neighbors, who have never heard of it, and I would venture to guess that if it was never written even more people would have loved their neighbors.

And it is not fair to hold it up to this kind of scrutiny because it was written a long time ago by savages and later edited by despots. But when people want to maintain that it is actually something else then we end up in a stupid discussion like this one. (No offence to the op of course.)

[blckhaze]

to me the bible is part of history. It probably excludes ALTO of what happened, but not every damn book is meant to list every fact, otherwise evcery book would looked fatter than war and peace. Being rasie Christian, i tend to use the bible to lead my life, but as a guideline, not as a huge "YOU MUST DO ALL" type thing. Most of the stuff listed inside of it, make sense to me, even when i was young. I think relgion in general is dangeroud because you get zealots who get hyper when someone disagrees with one point, then that leads to violence *points to the middle east* I say if someone want s to think that there are diety(s) is different is different than mine, thats fine as long as they dont try to force their religion on my because they think its the only truth. There is one truth and we as humans will never know how things really work untill we die.

[chefmike]

I think history is kind of a strong word to be using here. I remember someone posting on slashdot that Christianity is the belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father will make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that he is your master, so that he will remove a curse from you that was placed there when a woman made out of a rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magic tree.

If the bible is a history of the jews then I guess clash of the titans is a history of the greeks.

LMAO...priceless.

[LG]

Meaning ?
Such as... slavery, sexism and lapidation ? This is what we learn from the ten commandments.

1) old testament != the whole bible
2) most of leviticus != 10 commandments... most of it is thrown right into the trash in the sermon on the mount anyway
3) be resonable or this will lead nowhere


Agreed. People are confusing things. The Old Testament is not the whole Bible. To me the Old Testament is just a book of stories with morals- it is no more a true historical account than Homer's Illiad. Some of the books in the Old Testament, such as Leviticus, are truly irrelevant today, though many were once useful, and yes, the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus' teachings of love not only encompass all 10 Commandments but- like you said- throw all the rules and regulations out of the window.

The 10 Commandments do not advocate slavery or sexism. Some parts of the Old Testament do, but not the Commandments, do. I mean no offense to North_of_60, but must say that people shouldn't criticise what they can't understand and shouldn't try to form an opinion on what it seems to me they haven't read.

I have read the Bible through and I opt to stick to the New Testament, and especially what is contained in the four gospels. That is still my own opinion, but at least it is one formed after research and education on my behalf.

And, let's not blame a book for the way it is interpreted by humans, SmashysmashY.

[trish]

I’m just agreeing (I think) with most poster’s here that both testaments are tawdry historical fiction. The first is an attempt to give cosmic significance to the Bronze Age squabbles and tribal politics of the Middle East. The ten commandants begin with god demanding to be recognized as the top dog among all gods. There should be no graven images, no using god’s name in vain and observe the Sabbath. Let’s see then, four of only ten are wasted on god’s egoistic demands for due respect. In the narration of these four commandments, the Exodus account makes clear that the punishment for failure to adhere to theses cosmic laws will be visited even upon the fourth generation of children. Five more commandants tell of things we all know without being told. Honor your parents, don’t kill people, don’t steal, don’t lie, and don’t commit adultery. The last one establishes a thought-crime: no coveting.

It’s not clear whether the second testament negates this list or not, there’s mention of a new covenant but Jesus also warns us the old laws are still in place. It’s probably not fair to characterize the New Testament as an account of the Jewish people. It is an unsubstantiated, self-contradictory account of a (perhaps historical) man claimed to be the messiah. It’s also an account of the formation of the early religion of Christianity. To me Paul sounds like a back-room revolutionary with lots of ego to protect and project.

I happen to agree the golden rule (though not original with Christianity) is a good one to follow; maybe one of the best ethical aphorisms ever. I also like turn the other cheek. It might be an interesting project to make a list of good ethical rules and stupid ones that can be found in the New Testament.

[North_of_60]

I've got a catholic background. I've read the Bible, (old and new testament, from my first year in school), been to church, even served at the Mass. ... but I admit, a long time ago.


(...)people shouldn't criticise what they can't understand

Dogmatic predictable call from most worshipers and believers. Sorry LG, don't meen to offend.

If the law of the lord is perfect and if his word stands forever than what is there to be "understand", or not ? I ask : what should be decrypted as true and decrypted as false. Is there an imam, a priest or a rabbi that is more perfect than his own god ? Is this a personnal choice, a consensus, a paradigm ?

Faith is a non-sense. That's what I understood from the Bible.

Now, if a LG finds enlightenment from "the sermon on the mount." Good for him.

And if a Muhmuh is to follow the "thou shalt not steal" commandment. Good for us all. :wink:

[svenson]

organized religon makes much evil in the world today it causes more harm than most bad thngs

[LG]

I've got a catholic background. I've read the Bible, (old and new testament, from my first year in school), been to church, even served at the Mass. ... but I admit, a long time ago.


(...)people shouldn't criticise what they can't understand

Dogmatic predictable call from most worshipers and believers. Sorry LG, don't meen to offend.

Really? Don't you?

That was actually a Bob Dylan quote I paraphrased, but I do agree with it. I didn't mean to offend either, but it seemed to me that you were confusing what you had read in the Bible. And I will say again that the New Testament is not a history of the Jews but is based on the story of Christ. Furthermore, neither the Old or the New Testament is a historical account. They are meant to be looked upon as manuals, in my opinion. The first is a book of stories with some simple rules that all made sense at the time. The second is a book of teachings, centred around the four gospels but with some other books (and the Revelation, which can be seen as either allegorical or prophetic (or both). That is not dogma, merely clarification. It is unfortunate you did not see it as such.

I am not dogmatic, because I realise that nothing is clearcut in life. You can believe what you want to believe and I would not try to push my opinion on you. I have made it clear on these boards that I am an occasionally lapsing Christian who tries his best to have strong morals in life. I have also made it clear that I do not think much of the Old Testament and certainly do not take it as the word of God- I also do not think much of bible-thumpers who try to force their religious bias on people. All books of the Bible were written by fallible human beings. I accept that.

I am tolerant of other people's religion or lack of it. If you have been following my posts in this forum you will know that I do not like to have religion rammed down my throat and will not ram it down anyone's throat except in self defense. If a person quotes scripture at me, I can give back as good as I get, but I all the time and respect in the world for the atheists on these boards and for those who I might disagree with on religious grounds. And you can ask several of the long-standing members here.

What I do not like is the misquotation of scripture either to condemn people or to condemn the Bible or Christianity. If you do not like the Ten Commandments, that is good for you. But please don't tell us that they advocate slavery or sexism because this is just untrue.

On a side note, there is a very funny skit by George Carlin on the Ten Commandments which I do not find offensive in the least but actually downright hilarious.

In any case, for me there are only two commandments, taught by Jesus but applicable in any religion. Atheists may wish to ignore the first, although I would substitute the word 'nature' or 'world' for 'God'

From Matthew 22:36-40
"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" Jesus said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

It's that simple. Doesn't matter what religion you choose. Doesn't matter who you are or what you do for a living. If you can follow these two simple rules (and they appear in religious texts of other major religions and also in major philosophical works, in some form or another), whatever your mistakes in life, in my eyes (and in the eyes of God, if you believe in Him) you are a good man.

That is all.

[muhmuh]

Dogmatic predictable call from most worshipers and believers. Sorry LG, don't meen to offend.

And if a Muhmuh is to follow the "thou shalt not steal" commandment. Good for us all. :wink:

first of all i strongly agree with anything lg said
in repsonse to that quote i consider myself to be agnostic (a point i belief you will necessarily arrive at at some point if youre a scientifically thinking person) but i do believe in christian ethics which have been regurgitated almost exactly by emmanuelles cunt (sry this pun just wont stpo being funny to me) and countless others

what youre doing is a very typical misinterpretation of what the bible is in assuming that all of it is gods word which from the way i was taught and personally take it is neither the intention of its writers not true in any way

on that note the bible avoids platos circularity which from my understanding stems from having to assume what the gods expect you to do rather than being told directly by them (10 commandments and anything jesus said)

[LG]

Dogmatic predictable call from most worshipers and believers. Sorry LG, don't meen to offend.

And if a Muhmuh is to follow the "thou shalt not steal" commandment. Good for us all. :wink:

first of all i strongly agree with anything lg said
in repsonse to that quote i consider myself to be agnostic (a point i belief you will necessarily arrive at at some point if youre a scientifically thinking person) but i do believe in christian ethics which have been regurgitated almost exactly by emmanuelles cunt (sry this pun just wont stpo being funny to me) and countless others

what youre doing is a very typical misinterpretation of what the bible is in assuming that all of it is gods word which from the way i was taught and personally take it is neither the intention of its writers not true in any way

on that note the bible avoids platos circularity which from my understanding stems from having to assume what the gods expect you to do rather than being told directly by them (10 commandments and anything jesus said)

Immanuel Kant- Emmanuelle's Cunt- I just got this

:lol:

Good points though.

I like jews. They are nice people and if the bible is all about them, what's wrong with that?

The bible does not advocate slavery nor the eye for an eye/convert them by swordism of Mohammedism.

When you bash on the bible you're bashing on 3 major religions. What separates Christians from the Mohammeds is the teachings of Jesus Christ, the original "Tolerant" one.

[LG]

I like jews. They are nice people and if the bible is all about them, what's wrong with that?

The bible does not advocate slavery nor the eye for an eye/convert them by swordism of Mohammedism.

Yes it does.

From Exodus:
"If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."
Leviticus:
"Anyone who kills an animal shall make restitution for it, life for life. Anyone who maims another shall suffer the same injury in return: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; the injury inflicted is the injury to be suffered."
Deuteronomy:
"Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot".

That said, I believe that in the Talmud references are made to monetary compensation. And in the New Testament, the texts above are thrown out of the window:
"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth'. But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

And by the way, it's not called Mohammedism, but Islam, in case you didn't know.

I have 1 love. Like Robert Marley.


The bible does not teach an eye for an eye. I'm gonna get serious for a little while.

The bible actually says "Look at that woman. She's soo beautiful". When I look at Jen Justice, I lose my breath.


I just could never live without her smirk. I could never live without her smile

I could never live without talking to her at least ONCE on the phone.


Just 4 minutes.

[LG]

I have 1 love. Like Robert Marley.


The bible does not teach an eye for an eye. I'm gonna get serious for a little while.

The bible actually says "Look at that woman. She's soo beautiful". When I look at Jen Justice, I lose my breath.


I just could never live without her smirk. I could never live without her smile

I could never live without talking to her at least ONCE on the phone.


Just 4 minutes.

:what

What are you giving me that look for?

Are you calling me a pussy?

[SmashysmashY]

I have 1 love. Like Robert Marley.


The bible does not teach an eye for an eye. I'm gonna get serious for a little while.

The bible actually says "Look at that woman. She's soo beautiful". When I look at Jen Justice, I lose my breath.


I just could never live without her smirk. I could never live without her smile

I could never live without talking to her at least ONCE on the phone.


Just 4 minutes.

Yeah, well it also says:

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Leviticus 20:13 KJV

I have 1 love. Like Robert Marley.


The bible does not teach an eye for an eye. I'm gonna get serious for a little while.

The bible actually says "Look at that woman. She's soo beautiful". When I look at Jen Justice, I lose my breath.


I just could never live without her smirk. I could never live without her smile

I could never live without talking to her at least ONCE on the phone.


Just 4 minutes.

Yeah, well it also says:

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Leviticus 20:13 KJV

I'm not going to have sex with you, ok?

You guys keep bringing this up and I keep shooting it down.

[SmashysmashY]

You say "shooting me down". I say "you living in a dream world where jen justice is a woman".

potato potahto.

[svenson]

You say "shooting me down". I say "you living in a dream world where jen justice is a woman".

potato potahto.

a point thats good

[muhmuh]

What separates Christians from the Mohammeds is the teachings of Jesus Christ, the original "Tolerant" one.

jesus is a prophet to islam

What separates Christians from the Mohammeds is the teachings of Jesus Christ, the original "Tolerant" one.

jesus is a prophet to islam


But he is not the chosen prophet. That would be mohammed and his violent teachings.

[trish]

You guys keep bringing this up and I keep shooting it down.
Oh come off it TFan, you can't shoot any straighter than Dick Cheney.

[ezed]

The Bible and the Koran were poppycock, written by men in their own self interest to save their mamby pamby positions in life.

Two sentences would have sufficed...."Do unto others as you would have done to your self. Or God will grant you SERIOUS DEMERITS!"

If you need illustrations of this rule or further explanation with stories, then you a need a religion and thus have earned DEMERITS!.

Go to bed, realizing your fanatical adherance to your religion and your scriptures has cast you as defective in the eyes of your lord. (You're in effect saying he doesn't know shit about making a human beings. And the words of man not the instincts he gave you should take precedent.)

God I hate those who under estimate the power of GOD! Give Him some credit. Look up in the sky and be humbled!

[chefmike]

You guys keep bringing this up and I keep shooting it down.
Oh come off it TFan, you can't shoot any straighter than Dick Cheney.

LMAO...what do you expect, trish? The only weapons training that you get at jesus camp concerns bombing abortion clinics.

[Rild]

I always try to stay away from these religious threads since I've been known to offend many believers and faithfuls around me.
But I must say they constantly offend me with their nonsense. So, what the heck, it's Sunday...

The Bible is no history, it's a tool.

An irrelevant one, aburd and...yes, repulsive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y

I find intolerance like your repulsive as well. It makes me giggle a bit when some angsty atheist claims My religion is false and dangerous in the same breath.

In fact, this whole thread's attack on a religion is disgusting. Never heard of live and let live?

[chefmike]

I always try to stay away from these religious threads since I've been known to offend many believers and faithfuls around me.
But I must say they constantly offend me with their nonsense. So, what the heck, it's Sunday...

The Bible is no history, it's a tool.

An irrelevant one, aburd and...yes, repulsive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y

I find intolerance like your repulsive as well. It makes me giggle a bit when some angsty atheist claims My religion is false and dangerous in the same breath.

In fact, this whole thread's attack on a religion is disgusting. Never heard of live and let live?

Organized religion doesn't let people live and let live, slick. Wake the fuck up.

[LG]

I always try to stay away from these religious threads since I've been known to offend many believers and faithfuls around me.
But I must say they constantly offend me with their nonsense. So, what the heck, it's Sunday...

The Bible is no history, it's a tool.

An irrelevant one, aburd and...yes, repulsive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y

I find intolerance like your repulsive as well. It makes me giggle a bit when some angsty atheist claims My religion is false and dangerous in the same breath.

In fact, this whole thread's attack on a religion is disgusting. Never heard of live and let live?

Organized religion doesn't let people live and let live, slick. Wake the fuck up.

I think we need to draw a line between religious faith (what people believe in) and organized religion (what the clerics do in the name of religion). I too find organised religion unpleasant and am against any oppression in the name of religion and the against, also, the misappropriation of religious texts in order to excuse the inexcusable.

But each of us has a right to believe in whatever we choose as long as we do not ram our beliefs down other people's throats, right. That is part of what being a liberal is all about.

Maybe religion is just man's way of explaining the inexplicable. God might have created man, but man created religion. However, religion can give solace and can help people at times of need. And some of the teachings of religion, such as those contained in the gospels of the New Testament are worth living by.

I believe in God, personally. I think that God is everywhere. I will agree that a study of the infinite wonder of this world should make us understand more about God than most religious texts combined. I studied the sciences partly because I was inspired by the world and its beauty.

[Rild]

I always try to stay away from these religious threads since I've been known to offend many believers and faithfuls around me.
But I must say they constantly offend me with their nonsense. So, what the heck, it's Sunday...

The Bible is no history, it's a tool.

An irrelevant one, aburd and...yes, repulsive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y

I find intolerance like your repulsive as well. It makes me giggle a bit when some angsty atheist claims My religion is false and dangerous in the same breath.

In fact, this whole thread's attack on a religion is disgusting. Never heard of live and let live?

Organized religion doesn't let people live and let live, slick. Wake the fuck up.

Everyone isn't a part of organized religion and not all churches are guilty of meddling.

You wake up and get a opinion of your own.

[guesswho]

i always wonder about the bible cuz i dont want a go to hell but i cant control what i like

i always wonder about the bible cuz i dont want a go to hell but i cant control what i like


Oh crap, an honest man on the HA board?

Don't re-enforce the gibberish thoughts in that spew from the reptilian brain. Tell that brain to shut the fuck up and then go after what you want, except for Jen Justice. If you think about her, YOUR DEAD! :D

[SmashysmashY]

I think we need to draw a line between religious faith (what people believe in) and organized religion (what the clerics do in the name of religion). I too find organised religion unpleasant and am against any oppression in the name of religion and the against, also, the misappropriation of religious texts in order to excuse the inexcusable.
I agree with this. Religious faith and organized religion are very different things and it is important to draw a distinction between the two, but it is also important that we consider other points, one of which is that organized religion relies on religious faith to continue. So the reason for making this distinction cannot be to say that organized religion is injurious to society and religious faith is harmless, especially since it could be argued that it is but for religious faith that organized religion exists.

Second I think it is important to consider exactly what religious faith is and the nature of it to determine if it actually is harmless. Religious faith is belief that seeks no justification from reality; it is not contingent upon experience and by its very nature is irrational because what one is basically saying when they have religious faith is that they do not need any rational justification to hold their beliefs. If you don’t agree with this then we can refer to the bible again to see how Paul, the person who more or less started Christianity defines faith.

“For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.”
Romans 8:24 KJV (emphasis mine)

What paul is clearly stating here is that if you have evidence you don’t have faith and vice versa. By its nature religious faith has no justification and is therefore specious at best and counter-factual at worst, and any time you accept things that are counter factual you are engaged in delusion and most people would say that is bad.

And finally and I think most importantly is that even if religious faith or organized religion were harmless that wouldn’t say anything about the truth value of the claims being made. If you are a person who is concerned with making a distinction between true and false, fact and fiction, demonstrable, empirical evidence and flights of fancy, then this line of discussion is not going to take you where you need to be.

But each of us has a right to believe in whatever we choose as long as we do not ram our beliefs down other people's throats, right. That is part of what being a liberal is all about.

Maybe religion is just man's way of explaining the inexplicable. God might have created man, but man created religion. However, religion can give solace and can help people at times of need. And some of the teachings of religion, such as those contained in the gospels of the New Testament are worth living by
Well, I can’t speak for other people but I for one would not argue that people don’t have the right to believe whatever they want even if it is wrong or harmful to them. I readily admit that I do not know if there is a god. But I do know that if there is then it is not any god I have ever heard of; (which includes christian, muslim, hindu, greek, norse etc.) those gods could exist no more than a square circle could exist. So when you say “religion is just man's way of explaining the inexplicable.” What that means to me is that it is man’s way of denying that the inexplicable is inexplicable. And this serves no purpose in fact it is counterproductive. As I said you can hold any belief you want. But I don’t have to respect it unless you can offer a reason that I should even entertain the idea that it might be true. And you can’t do that.

[LG]

And finally and I think most importantly is that even if religious faith or organized religion were harmless that wouldn’t say anything about the truth value of the claims being made. If you are a person who is concerned with making a distinction between true and false, fact and fiction, demonstrable, empirical evidence and flights of fancy, then this line ...
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Well, I can’t speak for other people but I for one would not argue that people don’t have the right to believe whatever they want even if it is wrong or harmful to them. I readily admit that I do not know if there is a god. But I do know that if there is then it is not any god I have ever heard of; (which includes christian, muslim, hindu, greek, norse etc.) those gods could exist no more than a square circle could exist. So when you say “religion is just man's way of explaining the inexplicable.” What that means to me is that it is man’s way of denying that the inexplicable is inexplicable. And this serves no purpose in fact it is counterproductive. As I said you can hold any belief you want. But I don’t have to respect it unless you can offer a reason that I should even entertain the idea that it might be true. And you can’t do that.

I'm not trying to do anything. You can believe whatever you choose. Yes, I do believe that man does not want to consider that some things are inexplicable. We are always searching for answers, clues, whatever. We always keep asking "Why are we here?" We don't wan't to feel that we are here for no reason at all and so we choose to believe there is a reason.

I have chosen that path too. I believe in the existence of something greater than myself, because I've thought about it and the alternatives seem too unlikely, or too bleak or too lonely.

I agree with you on many parts. What people believe in is their choice, so long as they do not harm others. You may choose to believe their is no God but still believe that you should be a good man. The teachings are there as moral guidelines to follow or not to follow.

Finally, I have already said that I believe the Old Testament should not be taken as absolute truth, but more- I think- as a set of stories with morals. As for the New Testament (bar The Revelation), that is a matter of faith once again