Sexual Discrimination

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Saturday night I was out with a couple of gay friends and we wanted to go out to a few gay spots...
The gay community is usually wonderful to me and I really enjoy going to gay clubs...

HOWEVER

My friends wanted to stop by a popular NYC gay spot called Splash in the Chelsea area of New York-

Upon arrival, I was told I could not come in b/c no women allowed- ONLY MEN-
In fact no transsexuals allowed...


I asked the doorman- isnt this against the law?
And he said "yeah probably"

I am looking into all of my options and am speaking out against Club Splash in every chance I get.

[Chet_X]

That's really sucks. Are they afraid you'll turn some gays straight...or... something? Good luck with breaking their balls.

[NYCe]

Didn't Amanda Lepore use to host a party there?

[Felicia Katt]

Allanah

Section 8-102 of chapter one of title eight of the administrative code of the city of New York was amended in 2003 by adding a new subdivision 23 to read as follows:

23. The term “gender” shall include actual or perceived sex and shall also include a person’s gender identity, self-image, appearance, behavior or expression, whether or not that gender identity, self-image, appearance, behavior or expression is different from that traditionally associated with the legal sex assigned to that person at birth.

It went into effect immediately

Section 8-101 prohibits "discrimination from playing any role in actions relating to employment, public accommodations and housing and other real estate"

Public Accomodation is defined as follows:
"place or provider of public accommodation" shall include providers, whether licensed or unlicensed, of goods, services, facilities, accommodations. advantages or privileges of any kind, and places, whether licensed or unlicensed, where goods, services, facilities, accommodations, advantages or privileges of any kind are extended, offered, sold. or otherwise made available"

The agency to report them to is the New York Commission on Human Rights. You can get contact information here http://www.nyc.gov/html/cchr/home.html

Hope this helps

Felicia

[AllanahStarrNYC]

No "Women" Allowed

Being a transsexual I have always felt very accepted and welcomed by the gay community. When I used to be a "club kid" or "drag queen" I was revered by gay audiences and welcomed nightly when I took the stage at gay night clubs. Even though I do not consider myself to be gay, as I am a transsexual, and sexual orientation and sexual identity are two different things, I have always had a lot of gay friends and felt a strong bond with the gay community.

Like many gay people, I grew up being tormented and harassed in school. I was discriminated and looked down upon because people always assumed I was gay because I was so effeminate. From the time I was five years old, I heard nothing but "fag, sissy, queer" from my peers at school until the time I graduated and finally "came out the closet." The reason I put quotation marks around came out the closet, because coming out as gay was really the only way I knew to identify with the feminine desires I had ;to wear make up, wear women's clothes, and be my attraction to other men. Boy, was I soon to discover that I was wrong.

I "came out" in Miami, where I lived at the time, which if you are not familiar with the gay scene in Miami Beach, lets just say that masculinity is revered and there is no room for effeminate boys who like make up, dresses, and high heels unless you are there to entertain them. I only had one gay relationship with another man in my life and that was when I was 17. From 18 on I began dressing up in women's clothes and wearing make up to go out at night. I became a very popular drag artists in Miami beach working in night clubs and in celebrity events such as in the then homes of Madonna, Versace, and The BeeGees. I was in a calendar, and was on the cover of greeting cards (which still exist). I never had a gay relationship or gay sex at that time b/c really no gay man in Miami was attracted to me. And quite frankly, I was not attracted to many gay men. By the time I turned 21, I finally came to terms with my true identity. All my life I had felt like a woman and so I decided to become a woman.

This has not been an easy life choice. Emotionally, socially, financially, or physically. I am much happier today than I know I would have ever been as a man. And please do not mistake my words, asI am not regretful nor am I asking for your pity. I knew this would be a long hard road and I am just stating the fact that transsexual life is hard. I have endured 30 some cosmetic operations, countless procedures, electrolysis, hormone therapy, and that just begins to describe the physical transformation. This is were I feel a certain keen ship with the gay community.
I know what its like to have to work hard to be accepted, to have almost fight to have people respect you. As many minorities know, whether it be sexual or racial minorities, you always have to work extra hard to be respected for your abilities.

Which brings me to the point of this discussion. Saturday, February 26 I was out with my make up artist and another gay friend of ours and we had planned to go to a few gay spots around New York. First stop was Therapy in midtown Manhattan, in which we were welcomed with open arms
and treated very well. Next, we decided to stop by Splash, a popular gay spot in the Chelsea area of NYC, that personally I had never been too.

When we approached the door, (mind you I was very well dressed in head to toe designer gear as I usually do when I go out) we were stopped by the door man who told us that my friends could come in but not me. I asked why and he said that the club, did not want transsexuals or women in there that night. I asked if it was a private party-his reply "no". Then, I asked if this was a private club-his reply "no". Then I asked if he thought this was against the law-his reply "probably so".

In fact IT IS against the law. I was denied entrance to a public place for the soul reason that I am a transsexual-that my friends is the ugly world we all know so well:
DISCRIMINATION. In April 2004 the New York City Council passed a transgender anti discrimination bill that added the phrase "gender identity or statement" to NYC human rights laws.
But not only was not I allowed in, but neither were two genetic women who had been denied entrance as well and were standing outside for a cab. Clearly this was a violation of our rights.

Now, how would you feel if you went to a public place and someone said "Sorry you cannot come in because you are a man, or black, or Spanish, or your blonde", etc. How would these people who run Splash feel if they went to a bar and they were told @ the door "I am sorry you can't come in because you are GAY". I am sure they would feel like shit. Which is exactly how I felt. I felt humiliated and embarrassed. I was there to have a good time and spend money-but because of my gender I was not good enough.

It is hard to believe that in this day and age gay clubs still have no women/no ts door policies. I understand the right of a PRIVATE establishment or PRIVATE party to only let certain individuals in. This was not the case this evening. This was a case of discrimination. The management at Splash should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen. In a day and age when gay people themselves are fighting for basic rights all humans should have, they themselves are creating their own forms of segregation and discrimination of the sexes.
If simple equality can't begin @ a night club, then how can they expect the whole nation to understand?

Club Splash is located
50 West 17 Street and their
telephone number is
212 691 0073

If you feel that their door policy is unfair and discriminatory please let them know that they need to END their discriminatory and sexist door policies!!!

EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL

[Vicki Richter]

I can't fucking help myself. God help me. I think they had every right to not let you in. If they are going for a certain vibe with no women, then so be it. They are in business. It is their clientelle. First they let you in, then all of a sudden their whole community gets screwed up. They start getting cross dressers and gay guys in drag going... They start getting a whole element that they don't want. Maybe the owners realize that some guys like discretion and don't want women watching them do their thing. Also, what about your parties? What if gay guys started taking over? I guess you would probably like that and wouldn't care cause a door cover is a door cover, but there would be a lot of str8 or strays (straight guys who like TS also) who might not like it so much. You want it both ways. 99% of the tike you want the world to recognize and perceive you as a woman, but when you want to goto gay night at an all boy club, you feel discriminated against when you are treated as such.

Transsexuals associating/bonding with the gay community is something big that is wrong with transsexuals. There is a reason that "drag queen" is such an insult. They are generally there for comedy. You know, a big joke. It's like hey queeny gay guy, dress up as a woman and entertain us.

I can honestly say I have never been in a gay bar (except for that ridiculous lesbian club in NYC) and I've never felt a strong desire to go. Keep in mind... this is just me. I have friends like me... I have friends like you. We all get from A to Z in vastly different ways. I don't have problems with gay men or whatever. I just really don't think transsexuals need to hitch a ride on the gay community.

On that note... I only managed to stay away for a week. I suck.

Vicki

ps - I am glad you posted that address. Although I am not sure how many gay guys hang out on hungangels. I am kinda doubting you are going to hurt their business much. <snicker>

[AllanahStarrNYC]

WOW Vicki
Sometimes I am just amazed at your train of thought and opinions but they are yours....

HOWEVER-
I like going to all kinds of night clubs because I enjoy all kinds of people.
What is wrong with a ts going to a gay bar..
Splash is now trying to pull off a SUnday night TS night and they won't let a TS in on Saturdays?

BULLSHIT.

I welcome EVERYONE to my party.
Couples, gays, lesbians, whomever
I have always stressed that and I have all those "groups" of people at my events. I love all kinds of people and have many gay friends.


I'm glad your glad that I had to stand out in the cold and be embarrased
as other people went in, and I being told I could not come in because of who I was.

[Vicki Richter]

and any GG who tried the same thing would get the same treatment. Cry me a river.

I just think it is laugh out loud funny that you are posting "don't goto a gay bar, it discriminates" on a transsexual web site. You do realize how ridiculous that is. A huge percentage of the guys here would never dream of going. Most of the girls would never want to go either. .ca has it up on her TS dating website too. You two really thing the gay boys hang out on TS sites? Are you that out of touch with the fanbase?

Poll... How many guys on this forum regularly attend gay clubs?

[Toro]

Since you're obviously just trying to stir up beef, Vicki, I'll add my 'combative and vulgar' two cents' worth.

I once went to a lesbian club with a couple of strippers. If there's a harder place for a man to get into than a lesbian club, I haven't experienced it. But given the scenario, there was no reason for them to keep me out.

This isn't a matter of a gate crashing group of people taking over a club - this was a gay club saying 'no' to someone in the community that typically is defended by advocates and groups lumped together uder the acronym 'GLBT', if I am not mistaken.

But that aside, what if we were talking about an upscale store? or a restaurant? or a neighborhood? Like you say - it's not about the money, right? They can live without your money if they are trying to perpetuate a certain clientele, right? What if it was you this happened to, Vicki, would you be like - 'Oh, I completely understand'? What if every club had the same policy?

It's all about context. If it was a huge group of TS or women or whoever trying to 'crash' a gay club, or a group of straight men going to a lesbian club, or something like that... it's one thing. But that's not what this is about.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

First of all Vicki-
If u read my post CORRECTLY u would have read they said NO WOMEN 2-
I saw 2 WOMEN that had been denied entrance as well outisde.

That is wrong as well- I am talking about this as a whole. Not just about transsexuals- IT just happens to be that I am a transsexual.

SO I am not looking for symphathy or anyone to cry me a river.
I simply posted if anyone was interested in raising their objections to do so thats all. .ca offered to help because she felt the same way I did and posted it on her site.

And no I am not out of touch- because I think the men/women who read this and read my website main page and read my column on Jason Curious.com have interest in me as a person and this was a bad experience I had I felt I had to share.

I just happen to care about stuff like this- maybe you don't and thats fine

You think you are making a difference by doing bareback sex scenes in the world and I think I am making a difference by telling a club that their door policy is sexist and discriminatory- thats all

Different view points luv.

[geekmeat]

I have to agree with you on this one Allanah.
Its almost you have to apologize for who you are....to justify your own existence to some people.
I think the whole thing is crazy and gay people are So hypocritical when it comes to transgenders.
Transgenders are the one who kicked off the whole gay rights movement and now are being asked to take a back seat.
I have seen what your talking about out at the clubs in San Francisco.
Generally gay guys want nothing to do with TS women.....being effiminate is looked down upon.
But whats really so funny is this emphasis on masculinity by gay guys and MOST of them have lots of sugar in them.
I really think clubs are best when they are mixed.
Many of the TS women out here in San Francisco go to a club called ENDUP on sunday nights....its pretty mixed.
But yeah......the big "gay mecca" in San Francisco,the castro is almost devoid of TS women,none.


No "Women" Allowed

Being a transsexual I have always felt very accepted and welcomed by the gay community. When I used to be a "club kid" or "drag queen" I was revered by gay audiences and welcomed nightly when I took the stage at gay night clubs. Even though I do not consider myself to be gay, as I am a transsexual, and sexual orientation and sexual identity are two different things, I have always had a lot of gay friends and felt a strong bond with the gay community.

Like many gay people, I grew up being tormented and harassed in school. I was discriminated and looked down upon because people always assumed I was gay because I was so effeminate. From the time I was five years old, I heard nothing but "fag, sissy, queer" from my peers at school until the time I graduated and finally "came out the closet." The reason I put quotation marks around came out the closet, because coming out as gay was really the only way I knew to identify with the feminine desires I had ;to wear make up, wear women's clothes, and be my attraction to other men. Boy, was I soon to discover that I was wrong.

I "came out" in Miami, where I lived at the time, which if you are not familiar with the gay scene in Miami Beach, lets just say that masculinity is revered and there is no room for effeminate boys who like make up, dresses, and high heels unless you are there to entertain them. I only had one gay relationship with another man in my life and that was when I was 17. From 18 on I began dressing up in women's clothes and wearing make up to go out at night. I became a very popular drag artists in Miami beach working in night clubs and in celebrity events such as in the then homes of Madonna, Versace, and The BeeGees. I was in a calendar, and was on the cover of greeting cards (which still exist). I never had a gay relationship or gay sex at that time b/c really no gay man in Miami was attracted to me. And quite frankly, I was not attracted to many gay men. By the time I turned 21, I finally came to terms with my true identity. All my life I had felt like a woman and so I decided to become a woman.

This has not been an easy life choice. Emotionally, socially, financially, or physically. I am much happier today than I know I would have ever been as a man. And please do not mistake my words, asI am not regretful nor am I asking for your pity. I knew this would be a long hard road and I am just stating the fact that transsexual life is hard. I have endured 30 some cosmetic operations, countless procedures, electrolysis, hormone therapy, and that just begins to describe the physical transformation. This is were I feel a certain keen ship with the gay community.
I know what its like to have to work hard to be accepted, to have almost fight to have people respect you. As many minorities know, whether it be sexual or racial minorities, you always have to work extra hard to be respected for your abilities.

Which brings me to the point of this discussion. Saturday, February 26 I was out with my make up artist and another gay friend of ours and we had planned to go to a few gay spots around New York. First stop was Therapy in midtown Manhattan, in which we were welcomed with open arms
and treated very well. Next, we decided to stop by Splash, a popular gay spot in the Chelsea area of NYC, that personally I had never been too.

When we approached the door, (mind you I was very well dressed in head to toe designer gear as I usually do when I go out) we were stopped by the door man who told us that my friends could come in but not me. I asked why and he said that the club, did not want transsexuals or women in there that night. I asked if it was a private party-his reply "no". Then, I asked if this was a private club-his reply "no". Then I asked if he thought this was against the law-his reply "probably so".

In fact IT IS against the law. I was denied entrance to a public place for the soul reason that I am a transsexual-that my friends is the ugly world we all know so well:
DISCRIMINATION. In April 2004 the New York City Council passed a transgender anti discrimination bill that added the phrase "gender identity or statement" to NYC human rights laws.
But not only was not I allowed in, but neither were two genetic women who had been denied entrance as well and were standing outside for a cab. Clearly this was a violation of our rights.

Now, how would you feel if you went to a public place and someone said "Sorry you cannot come in because you are a man, or black, or Spanish, or your blonde", etc. How would these people who run Splash feel if they went to a bar and they were told @ the door "I am sorry you can't come in because you are GAY". I am sure they would feel like shit. Which is exactly how I felt. I felt humiliated and embarrassed. I was there to have a good time and spend money-but because of my gender I was not good enough.

It is hard to believe that in this day and age gay clubs still have no women/no ts door policies. I understand the right of a PRIVATE establishment or PRIVATE party to only let certain individuals in. This was not the case this evening. This was a case of discrimination. The management at Splash should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to happen. In a day and age when gay people themselves are fighting for basic rights all humans should have, they themselves are creating their own forms of segregation and discrimination of the sexes.
If simple equality can't begin @ a night club, then how can they expect the whole nation to understand?

Club Splash is located
50 West 17 Street and their
telephone number is
212 691 0073

If you feel that their door policy is unfair and discriminatory please let them know that they need to END their discriminatory and sexist door policies!!!

EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL

[TrueBeauty TS]

It's a sad fact that even in communities where there SHOULD be tolerance, there is still a lot of "class warfare".

Gays don't want trannys in their clubs. Transsexuals don't want to associate with crossdressers, and the list goes on. United we stand, divided we fall.


Alannah, did you ask to see the manager? Did you get the doorman's name? Did you get a witness to verify your story? Maybe the "gentle" hint of a lawsuit would open the door a bit. Get your cell phone camera out and document who's who.

(Did your friends just leave you there as they went in the club???)

If it happens again, maybe try an old Groucho Marx line (changed a little to fit the circumstance) "Well, I still have my dick, can I go halfway in the club?"

Another Groucho line; "I wouldn't want to join any club that would let me in."


I'm not really making light about it. I would be furious and embarrassed too. I'm so sorry it happened to you.

[Vicki Richter]

First of all Vicki-
If u read my post CORRECTLY u would have read they said NO WOMEN 2-
I saw 2 WOMEN that had been denied entrance as well outisde.


That is exactly what I was acknowledging here. Maybe you should read my posts. This statement doesn't have a question mark after it. It is stated matter of factly.


and any GG who tried the same thing would get the same treatment. Cry me a river.

This isn't a transsexual issue so who gives a fuck? If you get kicked out of a straight club or arrested for using a bathroom, that's something to get behind. That's news. You were denied access because they perceived you as a woman... which is what you want. You got denied access to a gay bar. They didn't want women there. Respect the fact that you weren't welcome and move on. This is why society is so fucked up. Men wanting to goto women only fitness clubs, girls wanting to join the cubscouts or play highschool football with the boys. Guys suing clubs because "lady's night" specials are sexually discriminatory. It's stupid. There are 5000 other clubs in NYC that you can go to. Move on. Don't try to screw up something cool for a community you allegedly care about.

I am not just stirring anything Toro. I have an opinion and I am just sharing it. This would never happen to me because I don't hang out at gay bars or places where women aren't welcome. I wasn't allowed to buy alcohol once because I was underaged. I should have started a campaign about it.

[bezane]

Allanah....while I'm sensitive to your outrage, I don't think it would be fair for you to in some way to parallel this particuliar situation with civil rights issues. This isn't about being denied housing or admittance on public transportation or use of a public facility such as restrooms. You were denied access to a party. A reasonable thing when someone wants to create a certain atmosphere. I hosted four different nights of parties down on Varick Street for six years. I couldn't have thugs at my modeling agency parties and yuppies on my Sunday night reggae thing. It wouldn't work. So I did the velvet rope and had a descretionary door policy. It's the norm in club land. I guess on a technicality you can legally force your way in. Then the promoters can go somewhere else and you can go to splash.

It all started back in the days of 54. A true melting pot of gay, straight, races and what have you. But they didn't let uncool squares in. But clubs have "devolved" in this regard. Everyone wants to be with their own. The Jewish singles, the hip hop kids, the rockers, trendies etc. Be practical here, sometimes we should be allowed a little "freedom to discriminate" when it's not far reaching, broad and detrimental to society in its implications.

[Toro]

This isn't a transsexual issue so who gives a fuck?

This would never happen to me because I don't hang out at gay bars or places where women aren't welcome. I wasn't allowed to buy alcohol once because I was underaged. I should have started a campaign about it.

LOL - but you aren't a woman!

What if you went to a store to buy women's clothing or lingerie and they wouldn't let you in the dressing room because you're a - uh - man?

You're setting your own community back 100 years with your viewpoint. But that's just my opinion.

[Chica]

oh, and TSs shouldnt hitch onto the gay community? where the fuck should they? with ur xian right wing community? i mean after all jesus was a slim dude, hung around guys, and had them on their knees most of the time...

lol that is quality!!!

but concerning the club, you must look at a business perspective... there is a few pubs near me that are owned by lesbian couples, but they allow everyone, as the history has been to allow everyone.

In the city near me, Newcastle, England (voted 8th best for nightlife hehe), that has mainly straight clubs, there are very few that are gay.

Say on average, everyone goes out once per week, by having a bar just for them, it means they will get business week after week, and not having to worry about anything interfering with the system...

if straight people are added, it means that the men will become agressive towards the gay men, and they will leave...

There would be hundreds of arguments for and against, however adding new nights, it does seem like they are looking into it.

Imagine if you had a private party at your house, and you invited a few people, others you didnt invite knock on your door and say can we come in? You say no, and they complain, you let them in... another group ask to come in and so forth...

[GuynLA]

Im sure their Sunday Ts night wont go over if they cant open their doors on any other night to them.

[bezane]

No "J" I don't think I'm mixing the apples and oranges at all. To achieve a level of sophistication in society, its citizens should operate free of laws in certain areas. While you are pointing out that Allanah was discriminated against based on gender as opposed to let's say being a doctor, or whatever, that may be true. But for the sake of the insanity of courtrooms and police and interpretation, my point was is that some dudes simply want to have an all male party that happen to want to meet other males. And they feel having women or whomever standing about takes away from the vibe.

Legally you can go to court and win. But stop and think of the practicality of that in this situation. Why not let the people throwing the party do as they wish. Otherewise they can simply state it's a "private function" and then they are within their right. Should we police everyone's night out?

Because two people in a suburb of Baltimore protest the Nativity Scence on the Public Library lawn, the court made the municipality take it down. Now the other 10,000 citizens that feel it symbolizes Christmas are screwed. And a tradition of 200 years is squashed. Sure, it's the law. But practical? Fair? Why should this promoter lose his party because Allanah wants to attend? Because that's what will happen when the club is sued for discrimination. Do you think the following week everyone will show up anyway? Is this all about a mission to change society? Is Allanah charging $50!!!!!! for men and nearly nothing for "working girls" or Tg's discrimination? Should she be shut down or even challenged? I think not. Let the marketplace decide. We're not talking about being denied food service in a Denny's here. Maybe we should just keep feeding lawyers to decide how to party because as reasonble citizens we can't coexist. All of us have been turned away from nightclubs for whatever reason. The fact that the guy told her bluntly speaks volumes about their integrity. They simply want to have a gay guy party. Straight up, if you will. Go to the Barracuda on 22nd to see Candis on Sunday. They allow girls in, but don't go on any other night. And no one complains or cares.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Well I care...

I don't care if they want to have a private party- I don't care that they want to have an all male party- THEN LABEL IT AS THAT

They said no tgs and women allowed- blatantly that is wrong- very wrong

Door policies are usually based on dress, favoratism, or status- ect.
but to be denied access b/c u are woman, a transsexual- is the SAME thing to say you can't come in because you are black or you can't come in because you are white.

SIMPLE.

They are wrong and I am using my voice in any way I can to describe my experiences and tell people that there door policies are discriminatory.

The man at the door very well knew I was a transsexual and a door person is merely following orders from the club. I am not looking to ruin Splash, ruin their party, I am looking to bring to light the fact that they are
discriminating based upon sex and gender.

THATS ALL.

[Vicki Richter]

LOL - but you aren't a woman!

What if you went to a store to buy women's clothing or lingerie and they wouldn't let you in the dressing room because you're a - uh - man?

You're setting your own community back 100 years with your viewpoint. But that's just my opinion.

This would never happen. My drivers license says Female on it. Suck a dick idiot.

You're not only ignorant, you are truely the dumbest person on this board Toro and you just offended every transsexual on it. Since transsexuals are, "uh, men", have fun at Splash next weekend.

The end,

Vicki

[Vicki Richter]

woah woah woah bezane, ur mixing apples and oranges...yuppies, clowns, doctors, etc are not a protected category..u cannot discriminate based on gender, religion, race, etc...

allanahs argument that all women were excluded clearly violates the protected catagory criteria...

and vicky, can u at least attempt to disguise ur anomosity a little? in ur haste to attack allanah, ur mispelling and being a bit sloppy....

oh, and TSs shouldnt hitch onto the gay community? where the fuck should they? with ur xian right wing community? i mean after all jesus was a slim dude, hung around guys, and had them on their knees most of the time...

I type like 80 words a minute... Sometimes people get sloppy when they type this fast. However, I wouldn't have bothered to post if I didn't feel strongly about it. Again, I don't view it as discrimination. Naturally Women, Curves, etc... are designed for WOMEN as a haven to not have men gawking at them as they work out. Your argument says that isn't constitutional. Your argument suggests women should be able to play on boys sports team at the high school level. Your argument suggests that having a mens room is unconstitutional if you really wanted to push it. I say if gay men want to hang out together in a place to call their own, go for it. If lesbians want to hang out alone together without guys hitting on them, go for it.

------------------

Oh and Toro, sorry if my profanity offended you. Maybe your virgin eyes needed to be offended.

[Vicki Richter]

Door policies are usually based on dress, favoratism, or status- ect.
but to be denied access b/c u are woman, a transsexual- is the SAME thing to say you can't come in because you are black or you can't come in because you are white.

SIMPLE.

They are wrong and I am using my voice in any way I can to describe my experiences and tell people that there door policies are discriminatory.

The man at the door very well knew I was a transsexual and a door person is merely following orders from the club. I am not looking to ruin Splash, ruin their party, I am looking to bring to light the fact that they are
discriminating based upon sex and gender.

THATS ALL.

Then they should do what you do, but in reverse; men $20, women $200, transgenders $1000 to get in. Would that be about fair? I think that would be enough discouragement. The gentleman above was correct. You actually could be accused of discrimination as well. Do you charge men and women the same thing to get into your parties? Oh but that's different right?

[bezane]

Awww. Allanah, you make me feel as though I'm insensitive to your point. Totally not. First off, when I'm home in New York I've brought my girl to your party and we love you, support you and all that. And I know that you're obviously not trying to ruin anyone's night.

My point again is one of practicality and being reasonable. Guys discriminating against girls at the office is wrong. Guys discriminating at their all male gay party is a whole other issue. Often times, well intentioned objections based on the law lead to a much more sweeping and vicious discrimination that finds loopholes to operate within the law.

Especially as a party promoter you should realize that "vibe" is everything. And as creative people creating that vibe we need to have some latitude. They have a zero tolerance policy. That a girl doesn't leave the party this week and tell 5 friends that is was slamming and they end up with something they know will chase their crowd.

Protest if you must, but I just don't see it as necessary here. But I'll support your right to do it.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Darling- I never said insensitive, you have the right to disagree or agree.

As far as the pricing of my parties-
the lower pricing for the ladies is an incentive to have them come- it used to free but the cost of the party has grown such that it is impossible for me not to charge the girls and make some sort of a profit.

And many nightclubs have ladies nights- all incentives to get ladies to come in.

Vicki you are just turning and mixing things around because you dont like what I had to say or maybe you dont like gay people, I don't know.


Point is- I am not even going to bother responding to your post anymore b/c it seems every time u are on here posting something is to make some negative comment and to "stit some shit" as Toro so delicately put it.
Yet- u are always running away when someone says something negative or disagrees with you.

Anyhow, welcome back from your long one week absence- is it a comeback or a return- I believe Norma Desmond preffered the latter.

[Vicki Richter]

Yes disagreeing with you is clearly negative.

[geekmeat]

LOL - but you aren't a woman!

What if you went to a store to buy women's clothing or lingerie and they wouldn't let you in the dressing room because you're a - uh - man?

You're setting your own community back 100 years with your viewpoint. But that's just my opinion.

This would never happen. My drivers license says Female on it. Suck a dick idiot.

You're not only ignorant, you are truely the dumbest person on this board Toro and you just offended every transsexual on it. Since transsexuals are, "uh, men", have fun at Splash next weekend.

The end,

Vicki


You mean im not the "dumbest" person on this board?
shit.....have to try harder.

he he

[LBCDO]

Imm say this. I make my livelihood from working in clubs. I rent clubs, throw an event, collect my funds. I have special events and I almost always give females free admission up to a certain time. That is not discrimination, that is an incentive to make sure that my club doesnt have 500 guys and 20 girls. Hell, Ive had a couple TSs come in my spanish events and cursed out my doorman for trying to charge them as males, apologized, and gave open bar.

You can let people in for free/change pricing for all types of things that you want. Legally, you can reserve the right to deny/admit whoever you want, but there is a way to do it. But I seriously doubt that you can legally do it by sex. I think they can only do taht with a private membership club, I would have to chekc with my lawyer.

I would NEVER deny a person because they dont meet a specific group. I would hold the line for too many guys/girls, but never deny someone entrance based on sex. A REAL promoter would market an all male concept and let it fall in place that it is supposed to be that way. If this was a private membership club, legally thats different, but naw, hell naw.

BTW, there really isnt a jumping All TS club here in ATL. Usually they share the gay clubs. And a lot of my TS friends have gay friends, so I find it useful because other TSs could make sure that their gay friends dont the patronize club.

Its really fucked up, I agree, and I just see it as sick because I promote. Was this the actions of the club, or the person who rents out the club for that nite? I would find that out as well!

[GroobySteven]

Hey Chica
I'm from Newcastle originally although only get back once a year.
Is there any tranny scene up there - I've heard there is now a pink district?
seanchai

[Mugai_hentaisha]

I can't fucking help myself. God help me. I think they had every right to not let you in. If they are going for a certain vibe with no women, then so be it. They are in business. It is their clientelle. First they let you in, then all of a sudden their whole community gets screwed up. They start getting cross dressers and gay guys in drag going... They start getting a whole element that they don't want. Maybe the owners realize that some guys like discretion and don't want women watching them do their thing. Also, what about your parties? What if gay guys started taking over? I guess you would probably like that and wouldn't care cause a door cover is a door cover, but there would be a lot of str8 or strays (straight guys who like TS also) who might not like it so much. You want it both ways. 99% of the tike you want the world to recognize and perceive you as a woman, but when you want to goto gay night at an all boy club, you feel discriminated against when you are treated as such.

Transsexuals associating/bonding with the gay community is something big that is wrong with transsexuals. There is a reason that "drag queen" is such an insult. They are generally there for comedy. You know, a big joke. It's like hey queeny gay guy, dress up as a woman and entertain us.

I can honestly say I have never been in a gay bar (except for that ridiculous lesbian club in NYC) and I've never felt a strong desire to go. Keep in mind... this is just me. I have friends like me... I have friends like you. We all get from A to Z in vastly different ways. I don't have problems with gay men or whatever. I just really don't think transsexuals need to hitch a ride on the gay community.

On that note... I only managed to stay away for a week. I suck.

Vicki

ps - I am glad you posted that address. Although I am not sure how many gay guys hang out on hungangels. I am kinda doubting you are going to hurt their business much. <snicker>

Wouldn't say you suck Vicki........yeah I can :shock: .lol

personally they might have screwed the pooch on that one. Although they have the right to Pursue a "certian atmosphere", they should have let Allanah in and "bit the bullet" on it, because bad publicity is going to be their downfall everntually.

i don't really understand some businesses......they want money but they start passing down silly laws and limiting their intake of money then complain about it.

[LBCDO]

Thats exactly what they should have done. Only way that I would deny someone at the door is if they are out of conditions that were stated when it was advertised [i.e. dress code, 21+], they were extremely rude, if security/police enforcement says they are known for fighting, or if someone is caught trying to bring in weapons. Never because of sex! Now private membership clubs can get away with that, but I wouldnt fuck up my name messing with it

[Felicia Katt]

You mean im not the "dumbest" person on this board?
shit.....have to try harder.

he he

Avis to Toro's Hertz LOL Nice to see someone laugh at themself a little :)

Felicia

[TominNYC]

Allanah had every right to feel mad about being denied access to this club. She is a NYC celebrity,who is classy and kind .But if you think about (especially a NYC person over 30) we have ALL gone through this in NYC...Clubs have a line and pick out who they want to admit based on look, image and dress..Its happened to me..It sucks!!! Move On!! But the bottom line is that Vicky is RIGHT..Clubs SHOULD have a right to dictate who comes in their club. If gay men don`t want women "watching" them in action, then why is that any different then the mens faces in the pictures on this webpage being scrabbled and blocked??? Its discretion !!! And give me break from the idiot who called Vicki a man?? And the same dude 10 posts ago talks about how they are attracted to GG and feminine TS only...You can`t have it both ways !!!

[Vicki Richter]

vicky, with all due respect, while ur expertise may be sucking dick, it clearly isnt the law, so step back, ur silly attempts at logic fail miserably, while generally speaking an establishment may not discriminate against people based on certain criteria, there can be significant state interests that would allow certain policies to be legal where the appear on face to be discriminatory, and seperate bathrooms, etc qualifies as such interests...

God I hate to be right all the time. It is really hard on me. <double smirk>

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/grossman/20040615.html

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20030803-9999_1m3ladies.html

[dan_yearsgone83]

For what it's worth, my only experience involving this matter:

On my first date with a local tg girl my age, we were walking around downtown in her city (Stamford, CT).

At some point, we walked past a gay bar, and I was unsure if she wanted to go in or whatever...I hadn't brought up the subject before.

Before I could ask, a bunch of the gay guys waiting to get inside in line made a couple of catty comments about her shoes, if I remember right...and I realized that they didn't want anyone in there who doesn't fit more "traditional" standards of gay male. Is that universal at gay clubs? I doubt it. I've seen plenty of Real World episodes (it's a guilty pleasure, so sue me) when the country guy becomes gay-tolerant by going to a gay club with 8 girls and the house's gay guy, the point being that 8 girls were present.

So although I see Vicki's point, I don't agree with it. If gay clubs can reject people at the entrance because of gender, wouldn't race and religion be just as justified?

[Toro]

Allanah had every right to feel mad about being denied access to this club. She is a NYC celebrity,who is classy and kind .But if you think about (especially a NYC person over 30) we have ALL gone through this in NYC...Clubs have a line and pick out who they want to admit based on look, image and dress..Its happened to me..It sucks!!! Move On!! But the bottom line is that Vicky is RIGHT..Clubs SHOULD have a right to dictate who comes in their club. If gay men don`t want women "watching" them in action, then why is that any different then the mens faces in the pictures on this webpage being scrabbled and blocked??? Its discretion !!! And give me break from the idiot who called Vicki a man?? And the same dude 10 posts ago talks about how they are attracted to GG and feminine TS only...You can`t have it both ways !!!

Pick a spot you old fruit - you're all over the place. I never said I was attracted to Icky.

And I'll tell you what... you make a live baby pop out of ANY of Icky's orifices and I'll give you $1000.

[Toro]

You mean im not the "dumbest" person on this board?
shit.....have to try harder.

he he

Avis to Toro's Hertz LOL Nice to see someone laugh at themself a little :)

Felicia

You see, Excrucia? You can't leave it alone, can you. But you're the victim, I forgot. LOL ... bring it on if you want, but you know you're a bullshitter, right? Hypocrite.

[Felicia Katt]

Toro, read the board. I didn't say you were the dumbest . Someone else did. and Geekmeat poked fun at himself. So I gave him some props for having a sense of humor Remember the old commercials? Avis was second to Hertz so they tried harder?

Its not all about you. In fact, except when you post crap, its never about you.

Felicia

[SidChromeAU]

They are wrong and I am using my voice in any way I can to describe my experiences and tell people that there door policies are discriminatory.
.
And lets face it, you do love using your voice, don't you? It must be hard being right all of the time, yet you are so gracious about it...
If gay men want to hang out with other gay men, in a convivial atmosphere in which they can fell secure 'being themselves', then why should you force your presence upon them? Whislt you may not have intentionally set out to change the vibe on that particular night, that is excatly what you or any other woman would have done merely by being there.
Bezane and Vicki seem to be amongst the few who seem to be approaching this sensibly: the law be damned, every now and then common sense has to take some sort of precedence.
BTW, J: you seem so hung up about Christianity, even managing to find an excuse to vent your usual misguided diatribe on this thread. Get over yourself mate - we all know your stance, and I doubt anyone gives a toss. Or did the Brothers give you a hard time at school...?
Might explain a lot, I suppose.

[SidChromeAU]

A well considered post Bezane. Thanks for the input.

[Chica]

Hey Chica
I'm from Newcastle originally although only get back once a year.
Is there any tranny scene up there - I've heard there is now a pink district?
seanchai

Hey, well I've only been out in Newcastle once, its quite expensive, £120 / $240 per night! But I don't think theres much of a scene here, though I haven't really looked, as I don't feel up to going out yet..

[LBCDO]

I dont mean to call you out, but if you were in the business, you have many misconceptions! And they were very obvious, and it makes me wonder exactly what you did in the club industry.


But the case of Allanah's party is still a bit different. She stated that her purpose of charging men 50 and women 15, which IS a fairly wide margin, unlike the example of the defense used in the case you posted which was a paltry 1.50, was to attract more girls. Same with the gay promoter. Keeping his party ALL MALE would attract the type he was looking for. Bt what's the most obvious motivation of Allanah's party?

Wrong context. How big is the margin of 50/15 compared to 20/0? Ill even post flyers from my events, but there is no cost for a ladies night! The law has no say in what you charge patrons of a club. And we are not talking about the denial of service based on gender. IF IT WERE PRIVATE MEMBERSHIP IT WOULD BE ENTIRELY LEGIT!

In strip clubs for example, most of the hot clubs charge the girls to dance. Call it a rental. They pay a fee to be able to solicit gratuity from men. That's because strip clubs on a whole, have already established a capacity for pulling in great numbers of males. The girls pay for the right to get them to pony up tips and thirty dollar lap dances.
[/quote]
Ive never been to a strip club where girls where denied.


Allanah's party is still at the stage where the girls are paying a minimal amount, but to be honest the majority of them are escorts. They show up at the party to solicit themselves. Technically it is promoting prostitution. There is also nudity. A complete violation of the city and state code in regards to licensed liquor serving establishments. So what exactly are the men being charged so much money for? Entertainment? Legal entertainment? Could it be that they are being unfairly marketed to because they are a certain affinty group that seeks out an illicit, as well as societal taboo type practice?
For one, Allanah isnt promoting prostititution at all. Please show me where in any of her party cards or website that she advertises "Over XX Escorts!" or "Have Sex in the VIP!" Allanah is not responsible for what happens /w 2 consenting adults outside of her event.

Nudity? Well that is called a Cabaret license. Nothing illegal about having a cabaret!


...and a hardcore hip-hop promoter doesn't want suburban white boy wannabes at theirs (not because they hate whites, they just know they might get killed and don't need the aggravation), then we run the risk "in the name of equal rights" of causing a situation that ruins nightlife.
When I promoted my Lil Jon and the Eastside event about 3.5 weeks ago, I had a lot of white people tell me "Oh, I wouldnt go there without a helmet and riot gear, no thanks". But I would never say "No White people at the door!" I know damn near every promoter in ATL and have never heard of a no-whiteperson policy.


The truth is if Allanah charged 15 for men, many more would come. And many more girls might as well because there were more "possibilities" and those possibilities would have more quid to spend on the girls. But Allanah would then make less money. And there might in turn not be a party.
The truth is that it takes money to throw an event. There is also truth in that it is not your typical party! If your consumer is paying$50 for a once a month event that is well planned, themed, and organized then what is the problem? If you cant afford it, I dont think the Thursday party is that much, go to that.

I dont know how many New York clubs that you go to, but I know a NY promoter who charges $40 for entrance, then $150 for VIP. NY has expensive upscale clubs, you didnt know that? Are you really just stuck on this price and trying to stick it on discrimination at the door since that is the topic?

Do you know how much it cost for flyers, booking a DJ, ensuring a girl performer will show up [$$$ incentive, plane tickets, etc], decorating a venue, renting the club/bar guarantee, photographer, paying security, then paying yourself? Yea, Allanah should be the TrannyChasing robin hood and do them for free


Until some guy decides that he was charged more than a girl. Was discriminated against. Calls for a protest. Complains that a girl solicited him. Complains there was nudity. The club gets slapped with hearings from the Building Department, SLA, scrutiny on their other nights in regards to issues like underage drinking, overcrowding, public assembly, violation of cabaret license laws (dancing, ebtertainment, live music) etc.
LOL, you dont think guys complain to the police that some of these clubs have "prostitutes" in them already? But the thing is it must be proved that the prostitution is a function of the promoter or club, not an individual! I do spanish clubs, and its not secret that when you go to the spanish club you are bound to see a few of prostitutes! Big deal, Ive never been shut down because there were girls hooking up with tricks. Big Deal, it happens everywhere from bars to baseball games and the venue isnt responsible.

From what I read, teh police make roudns, go in, and say everything is ok. And how is there a violation of the cabaret law? And public assembly in a club? Are you serious? Isnt the event 21+Up? So how is underage drinking an issue? Even if it were, its a fine, not an automatic closing.


I post this to open up some eyes. Before the constitution and law gets waved, think about it. Should we go to splash and ruin their party? "Straighten" that boy out? I know this business cold.
Im sorry I doubt you "know this business cold". You just seem like the average guy who comes up to me with all these reasons why I should lower my cover price. If you cant afford to go to the club, stay at home.

[Vicki Richter]

Pick a spot you old fruit - you're all over the place. I never said I was attracted to Icky.

And I'll tell you what... you make a live baby pop out of ANY of Icky's orifices and I'll give you $1000.

Awww that's so cute. Now pull my pigtails. heh. I think it's so cute how you come up with little pet names for all the girls you "don't like". It's really endearing.

Icki Ichter

ps. Only $1,000? You must have some cash flow problems or not very convinced.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Thank you-

Bezane-

FYI-

1. I dont have a partner. ALL of your assumptions about the $, what I make, what happens are completely incorrect. Ever thought about writing a ficition book.

2. You have NO idea at what expense thia monthly party is to put together or the time and staff required. And that the complete risk is mine.
FYI- Props alone for the Eqyptian party were $4,000.00

3. Promoting Prostitution?
FYI- @ There have been TWO cabaret and routine police inspections during the course of my monhtly events in the past three months and they have found NOTHING wrong.
Where is my ads do u see-this is a brothel, come and get fucked for money? In fact, YOU can't control everyone's behaviour. In no way are we promoting prostitutuion, and the club does its best as do my staff to stop any hanky panky going on and it NOT TOLERATED. IF YOU have been to my party and YOU have engaged in such behaviour then it IS YOU who have broken the law and are subject to removal from the party or whatever consequences may have.

4.Nudity- IN NYC if you are doing a performance full nudity is allowed-
SHOW ON STAGE-PHOTO SHOOT ETC.


And furthermore, I am not trying to close down Splash, file a law suit, or ruin their business- I FOR THE LAST TIME saying what I FELT WAS WRONG.

To Sid- You love to hate me dont you darling. Guess what my voice isn't going anywhere- so change the channel or wear ear muffs.

[Vicki Richter]

LCBDO,

I don't think he is asking her to lower her price or even cares. I also don't think he cares if people are naked, sucking dick, or standing on their heads at the parties. He's just presenting a frame of context. You have some good points of course as do they.

My only argument was based upon the simple fact that we, as a society, get really overworked on stuff. I'm sure it sucked to get turned away like that and I am sure it was unexpected. However, it's also insulting to tell people on a TS centric site not to patron a gay club. It is suggestive that the men here are gay or bisexual enough to frequent gay bars and could actually hurt their business. I've never seen that to be the case.

It's like saying, "Hey guys I know that there are a lot of sheep fuckers on this board, so make sure you don't goto the pastures in Hillyville because someone gave those sheep the clap." Saying that here would just be silly, but saying it on a board of sheep farmers would illicit a response I am sure.

There is a fine line in human sexuality which is suggestive of whether a guy hooking up with or dating a transsexual is committing a gay act. I like to think that's not the case. I guess it doesn't feel that way to me and many of the guys I've met aren't into guys (although there are some that are). But again, highlighting the "guys don't goto this gay club because..." is really crossing a line.

Here is a poll on my Yahoo Group asking what the member's sexual preferences are. Here are their responses.

I prefer women only 31 3.69%
I prefer TG's only 26 3.09%
I prefer men only 0 0.00%
I prefer women and TG's 622 73.96%
I prefer men and TG's 15 1.78%
I prefer men and women 2 0.24%
I prefer everything (M, W, TG) 145 17.24%

It's really an interesting demographic. 80% of you guys are only into Women, TG's, or women and TG's. 0% of you identify as gay.

[Vicki Richter]

Thank you-

Bezane-

FYI-

1. I dont have a partner. ALL of your assumptions about the $, what I make, what happens are completely incorrect. Ever thought about writing a ficition book.



As I said before, there is a literal interpretation of what he was saying and a suggestive, point of context perspective. I don't think he was really trying to suggest what you made from each party, he was giving people a point of context to support his discussion. It would be like saying, Allanah, if you date 300 guys at 400 each that is $120,000. It's just adding a number. I doubt many people looked at that and said, "Oh that's what she's making".

[LBCDO]

I feel you on what you were saying. The audience isnt correct. But I think she is making it known at every venue because its a problem to her that she wants everyone to know.

For bezane, its just that he kept talking about if the price was lowered, what she would take home, money money money money money. Just seems like hidden agenda

[bezane]

First of all LCMD. I'm currently writing a book called Club Wars about the industry and got a pretty decent advance to do so. I'm not beating my chest here. I'm simply making a point that without malicious discrimination we should leave each other alone.

I obviously hit a nerve because my post was removed. Some here know my club. It operated for 7 years and was sold and now operates as a mainstream venue down on Varick. I had four murders, I was personally shot at twice, operated in a designated Genovese Family district, hosted parties from everyone from OJ Simpson to Run DMC. I was directly across from Def Jam. In short, I know everyone. I'm not bragging here.
I ended up with nothing and then some.

Maybe you do business in Atlanta. That's fine. NYC is different. No question. You learn to shut your mouth. And as far as not knowing the cost of things like DJ's, I don't know where my post gave that impressio.

I gave Allanah the benefit Of half the door proceeds going for expenses. 5K. On a weekly low-key party that's adequate. Her four color flyers are costing a grand. Her DJ maybe 300-400. etc. If it's more. Call me and I'll hook her up with all the people that do NYC. As far as celebrity and name DJ's, I once paid 15K for Stone Love to come for a battle between Kingston and London. I've dealt with contract negotiations for College Music Journal Convention and so on. That included everyone from Smashing Pumpkins to Third Eye Blind.

I could care less what you say but don't try to belittle me. My post was advice to Allanah about how the industry works. I never stated she was guilty of anything other than throwing a party. And if she's not in this game to make mor than six figures annually than what's the point. Peter Gatien was a monster in the business. Good to the tune of at least 7 figures a year for 20 consecutive years. Eveyone knows who he is. He's someone I wont call a personal friend because we disagreed over terms of a particuliar event and we didn't speak for awhile. He got crushed. Why? Do you think Michael Alig's manslaughter conviction did him in? Not really. More about some changes in community board protocol. They just needed an excuse.

And if you rub someone the wrong way in NYC the excuses are all over the place. From discrimination to cabaret to public assembly and everyone's favorite....the SLA. For your info, cabaret licenses in Manhattan are not available. They are grandfathered. They are what is important. Liquor licenses are unlimited. They are reviewed every three years. When they want to bust an establishment they use 20 year-old cadets from the academy that look older and go in your place and drink. They will write you up. They will fine you. And with enough fines you won't be renewed. They have the right to turn your lights on and stop the music at your party at will. Every time, if they want to check paper work. To inspect. They will check patron ID's at the same time. They come with reps from six different agencies including the health dept. (the real sleeper) and raid you over and over. And all that happens when you piss the wrong person off.

Is it right? I don't think so. Is it legal? Yes it is. Same goes for parties. You understand my correlation here. Let's not run around town pointing fingers. You may not agree. You can let management know. But post a clubs phone number and ask for assistance in complaing to the authorities? Consider suing? That's plain playing with fire where I come from. And also where Allanah is playing host.

To me nothing was that drastic in telling Allanah "no" entry. WAS IT RIGHT? Probably not. Make a case of it? Wrong move.

While I respect the moderator of this board to edit and remove my prior post which had to do with comparing people's rights and civil liberties. It obviously struck a nerve on Allanah and she complained or the moderator had a stake in me being censored. So be it. Let's leave it at that. But if I'm censored over something like this, someone in club land NYC might get angry over your boycott and potential lawsuit against the poor little party at Splash. Politics is the use of give and take of power. Be wise and play the game with skill. I was a newbie at the party game once. My mistakes and high profile in the New York Post in dealing with their star journalist cost me dearly. Was I right? Yes. Did I survive?

Sorry Allanah. Shoot the messenger. You got some advice on this one and you didn't see it. Disagree with me. Don't censor my posts please.

Also to LCMD...If I were to come to Atlanta I would go stright to people in the know there to get the down low. Laws about nightlife are not universal. When in L.A. you go to a Sean MacPherson or the like. When in NYC a Serge Becker maybe if you do A-list . So while I don't doubt your credentials like you shed doubt on me, you show a little greeness thinking you know NYC from 1000 miles away.

[Vicki Richter]

It's kinda funny. Freedom of speech being removed and all in a post about personal freedoms and rights pertaining to discrimination. Did the moderator have a right to remove Bezane's post? Yes. Was it the right thing to do? No. Now what if Bezane made it his personal obligation to tell everyone how he was censored on Hung Angels. LOL.

Too cute.

[bezane]

And to think the only reason I'm here is because of a mad crush on Vicki. I have GG and for some reason you just kill me girl. And now she agrees with me. I think. Mmmm. Maybe she would be attracted to me too. Probably not. But our conversation over coffee will be very complimentry. LOL.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Bezane-
May I suggest you throw some cold water down your shorts
b/c
I never said I was SUING Splash or Organizing a boycott....
READ My article and READ my main page on my website if you wish for refference..

futhermore you post-
accussed me of running a brothel- and promoting prostitutuion
UNTRUE AND FALSE STATEMENTS, READ THE FAQ ON MY PARTY WEBSITE AND THE DISCLAIMER AT THE DOOR IF U EVER COME

thats why it got the hook-

Thank you for your advice on night clubs and for your offer to help.
If I ever need you I will call you darling.

[bezane]

Wow Allanah!!!!! What a nasty post. Cold water down my shorts? Of course you never said you were suing Splash or anything else. But don't shout fire in a crowded theater. You incited others to call. You incited one poster to suggest his tuition to law school be used to slap Splash with a discrimination suit. Don't be silly. My post sited an example of what people will throw at you if you cast the first stone. My guess is that someone knows someone at splash that is wired into somone in the 10th PCT. (many gay officers there). Be careful. THERE IS A GAY MAFIA in NYC. Believe it.

Suppose the authorities checked ID's at your party? What woukd they find? We as party people never know. But I kid you not, if more than a handful of your "performers" have solicitation arrests then you might find yourself under fire. If an underage girl has a beer in her hand and you get ticketed, see how long the club keeps you there. See what other clubs will accept your party as the heat grows. In my opinion it would be wrong. And I was defending your right to throw your party in the way that you wanted. And my solution was to worry about yourself not Splash.

If my use of suggestion, to make my point hit a nerve, then deal with that. But don't accuse me of making accusations. I unequivocally did not.

As far as me being censored because of YOU. I guess it's your meesage board then. I didn't know that. I kind of thought there was a connection because HungAngels promotes your parties with prominent displays and top subject billing on the message board. So it's even more surprising that you want to subject your enterprise to further scrutiny.

Because others posted that it was money, money , money THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, I will say this.

"In the good old days money used to be everything, but now it's the whole fucking forest"

So the fact that you're a promoter and not the club's owner, you should even have a higher degree of tolerance for others. Because you go about town representing a club you don't own. Any heat you attract goes on the club. I'm sure they don't want a club war.

You're too proud I guess to just leave it be and chalk it up to an interesting dialogue. You also want to belittle me. Fine. It's a shame because you know me. And no one in all of New York can say I'm not a man of my word, totally loyal to a cause and a person you can count on as a friend.

Also consider this. You want to hassle with a gay party? They're the wrong ones. They are organized, have oodles of cash and know how to fight as well as having some very distinguished gay advocate politicians. Any other promoter would just shrug it off with a fuck you. They will make it a mission before God and they have a powerful rolodex. Chalk that one up to me acting like a know it all. But it's a fact. Pick your fight with another discriminator. Gays are bullet proof there. Trust me on that one.

Then consider that this just came out of me suggesting to let your incident go. But your pride starts a dialogue that has ramifications of ugliness.

You and these moderators are smart people. However in this instance you became reactionaries without consideration for someone's feeling that was posting something thoughtful and mindful. Then you censor me but don't censor the biased rebuttals to make me look even worse. Shame on that.

Remember, at every other Transsexual venue/party they ended up with allegations of promoting prostitution, drugs, underage drinking etc. I know this because I know about every closure that ever happened between 1990 and 2002. My two liquor attorneys were wired like no others. So if you're suggesting you're bullet proof maybe you are connected to city hall or Albany. Good for you. Because if you're taking up policing other people's parties you'll need it.

If you like, I won't post on your message board. And so goes the chapter in your career where you went from an enterprising young woman to lining up enemies around town. Chalk it up to civil rights. Or was it censorship?

Go ahead it's your message board. Grab the last word with your put downs. And remove my post in the name of me "accusing you of terible things" or me being so hot under the collar that I need to be iced. We both know neither is true. My posts had no venom toward anyone. I don't play that game. Looking for interesting dialogue. That's it.

[thanos]

Wow Allanah!!!!! What a nasty post. Cold water down my shorts? Of course you never said you were suing Splash or anything else. But don't shout fire in a crowded theater. You incited others to call. You incited one poster to suggest his tuition to law school be used to slap Splash with a discrimination suit. Don't be silly. My post sited an example of what people will throw at you if you cast the first stone. My guess is that someone knows someone at splash that is wired into somone in the 10th PCT. (many gay officers there). Be careful. THERE IS A GAY MAFIA in NYC. Believe it.

Suppose the authorities checked ID's at your party? What woukd they find? We as party people never know. But I kid you not, if more than a handful of your "performers" have solicitation arrests then you might find yourself under fire. If an underage girl has a beer in her hand and you get ticketed, see how long the club keeps you there. See what other clubs will accept your party as the heat grows. In my opinion it would be wrong. And I was defending your right to throw your party in the way that you wanted. And my solution was to worry about yourself not Splash.

If my use of suggestion, to make my point hit a nerve, then deal with that. But don't accuse me of making accusations. I unequivocally did not.

As far as me being censored because of YOU. I guess it's your meesage board then. I didn't know that. I kind of thought there was a connection because HungAngels promotes your parties with prominent displays and top subject billing on the message board. So it's even more surprising that you want to subject your enterprise to further scrutiny.

Because others posted that it was money, money , money THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, I will say this.

"In the good old days money used to be everything, but now it's the whole fucking forest"

So the fact that you're a promoter and not the club's owner, you should even have a higher degree of tolerance for others. Because you go about town representing a club you don't own. Any heat you attract goes on the club. I'm sure they don't want a club war.

You're too proud I guess to just leave it be and chalk it up to an interesting dialogue. You also want to belittle me. Fine. It's a shame because you know me. And no one in all of New York can say I'm not a man of my word, totally loyal to a cause and a person you can count on as a friend.

Also consider this. You want to hassle with a gay party? They're the wrong ones. They are organized, have oodles of cash and know how to fight as well as having some very distinguished gay advocate politicians. Any other promoter would just shrug it off with a fuck you. They will make it a mission before God and they have a powerful rolodex. Chalk that one up to me acting like a know it all. But it's a fact. Pick your fight with another discriminator. Gays are bullet proof there. Trust me on that one.

Then consider that this just came out of me suggesting to let your incident go. But your pride starts a dialogue that has ramifications of ugliness.

You and these moderators are smart people. However in this instance you became reactionaries without consideration for someone's feeling that was posting something thoughtful and mindful. Then you censor me but don't censor the biased rebuttals to make me look even worse. Shame on that.

Remember, at every other Transsexual venue/party they ended up with allegations of promoting prostitution, drugs, underage drinking etc. I know this because I know about every closure that ever happened between 1990 and 2002. My two liquor attorneys were wired like no others. So if you're suggesting you're bullet proof maybe you are connected to city hall or Albany. Good for you. Because if you're taking up policing other people's parties you'll need it.

If you like, I won't post on your message board. And so goes the chapter in your career where you went from an enterprising young woman to lining up enemies around town. Chalk it up to civil rights. Or was it censorship?

Go ahead it's your message board. Grab the last word with your put downs. And remove my post in the name of me "accusing you of terible things" or me being so hot under the collar that I need to be iced. We both know neither is true. My posts had no venom toward anyone. I don't play that game. Looking for interesting dialogue. That's it.

Ok, I really missed something here :?:

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I think I missed something 2 b/c I am not sure how my poast was so nasty-

Listen sweetie- again u are full of assumptions

No one that dances for me is under 21
No on admitted into the parties are under 21

and how do you know that the people that work for me have records?
WOW. You are full of assumptions- WAIT
I forgot every transsexual is a drug addict, prostitute, who has done time in jail, and is stupid!
I forgot

AGAIN YOU AND YOUR ASSUMPTIONS

and if u calim u know me then why dont u email me personally to prove it?

Hunny I am not bullet proof and u can post whatever u want here-
but I know that I have the backing of this board 100%-
AND
I do my parties to provide a venue for the girls and guys to go to
The day that need ends, when that is the day the parties will end.

Its unfortunate that people like you are always putting people like me down.

AGAIN: WE HAVE HAD 2 LIQUOR LISCENSE , ROUTINE CLUB INSPECTIONS OF THE CLUB FOR THE LAST TWO PARTIES AND EVERYTHING HAS BEEN CHECKED INCLUDING A TOUR OF THE CLUB AND THE OFFICERS FOUND EVERYTHING OK.

And this is my last post addressing you.
If you want to discuss thing persoanlly, as you claim u know me- email me
other than that
Im glad some of you support discrimination-

BTW
I did my research and called LAMDA Legal and The New York Human Rights commission and what they did is INDEED ILLEGAL
You can not discriminate agaisnt GENDER-
Dress Code Yes, GENDER NO

But I am not trying to sue again, but it was wrong.

[texas4000]

.

[Vicki Richter]

vicky are u fucking retarded? u quote what i say then post an article that basically agrees with me and then u chuckle or something? are u retarded? it is I who said that you cannot discriminate UNLESS there was an overriding significant state interest..and the court found that increasing revenue wasnt such an interest, nothing similar to seperate bathrooms, etc..

wow...nice job Einstein...



Keep trying J, when I am right. I'm right. You just look foolish now. I was agreeing with my prior posts and proving you wrong as usual.

God bless you. I mean that.

Amen,

Vicki

[LG]

thanos wrote:

Ok, I really missed something here

You and me both buddy. But I'm staying out of this one...

[SidChromeAU]

and whoever the knucklehead that commented on "brothers" mistreating me? huh? i dont know, went over my head, u meant like black people? or like men of the cloth? im sure theres a hilarious joke there somewhere if i work on it..a staff writer for conan? leno?
It was I that commented on the Brothers (note the capitalisation, tosser). Bear in mind that we don't all live in NYC (or even the US - how dare us!), and therefore don't all use your ridiculous slang. Lets see: violently anti-Christian imbecile with a hair trigger... Christian Brothers, or ghetto blacks...? I'm thinking that a bad (or was it good for you?) experience at a private school has messed you up somewhat.
And of course it went over your head - it is quite apparent that you are a moron. Next time I'll use mono-syllabic words solely. (Oops - good thing I'm only going to use them next time, eh?. Mo-no syll-ab-ic - there's five!)

[SidChromeAU]

Bezane, it has become quite apparent that Allanah and this board are pretty much extensions of one another. It also appears that, so long as we fawn all over her, and assent loudly whenever she makes a pronouncement, we are allowed to play here. I was wondering where your insightful post went. No grounds at all to remove it. You keep trying to impress us with your immense intellect, so don't play the innocent. As it happens, Bezane merely pointed out the various grounds that might (rightly or wrongly) be used to levy complaints against your ventures. He
Following your latest little spray against him: he didn't state that your dancers or customers were all under-age, but do you really think that you run the only show in the entire bloody world where all patrons are of legal age? Maybe you are that innocent after all. All the man was suggesting was that you too may be vulnerable if you want to get involved in a shit-fight. Take the advice and get over it - only fight the battles you can win. You are reading much more into Bezane's posts than is necessary.
No matter what you say now, your original post was highly suggestive of a boycott of/call to action against Splash. I'm sure many others read it similarly. Whilst the club's refusal to admit you may have been illegal, it was logical, for all of the reasons pointed out in this thread.
The simple fact is, you have begun to take yourself far too seriously, and your nose was put out of joint by the enormous slight that you suffered. How dare they - didn't they know who you are? So you thought you'd show them. And what better place than HA, where all of your acolytes would cry havoc, and immediately make Splash pay by refusing to ever go there again (despite the fact that, as Vicki has pointed out, few if any here would be interested in a gay nightclub anyway).
Bezane: if I have misrepresented you in any way, I apologise. I'm just sick of the crap that has been cluttering up this board lately whenever someone posts something even remotely intelligent.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Sid-
Thank you ever so for your endearing post.
I am flattered that you have taken such an interest in me and my points of view.

Fortunately, I am not suffering from dellusions of grandeur and in no way have I ever suggested that "How dare not know who I am"!!!!!
LOL- That is a good one, and I will have a laught at it if I may.


Their tacky door policy is just that- plain tacky.
LOL @ Club War
LOL @ Me trying to impress you everyone with my immense intelligect
LOL @ Taking myself too seriously
LOL @ all driving everyone from not goign to Splash

You are another one I am not even going to bother responding on this topic about. It is clear you have a personal disdain for me and if you @ all knew me (which you DONT) you would know that all of your ridiculous assumptions about myself, and what I initially posted on here have snowballed into bunch a untrue crap.

Yes and I have to admit, I fucked and sucked everyone on Hungangels so they would do as I say!!! (Several times I might add)

and Sid- if you are sick the "crap" clutterintg the board, which I am sure
its directed totally at me- well then don't read my post.
Why don't u, Vicki, & Bezane open your own post regarding this subject since you three (out of the majority of the posters on here) agree that a club shoukd employ sexist policies.

Unless you love to hate me love, that is OK ;).

B/C I dont give a RAT'S ASS.
btw that in American slang would be I care about the ass of a rat more that the negative stuff you have to say about me ;)
A little translation for you my dear Sid.

Now its time to go inflate my over bloated ego LOL
Where is that silcione bottle ANYWAY.

[SidChromeAU]

[quote="AllanahStarrNYC"]Sid-
B/C I dont give a RAT'S ASS.
btw that in American slang would be I care about the ass of a rat more that the negative stuff you have to say about me ;)
A little translation for you my dear Sid.
quote]
Well, in the English speaking world that'd be a rat's arse... But I digress.
Please read my response to you in the Trannyshack thread. I accept that it does appear to have degenerated into a fairly mailcious thread here (on both sides). Again - I do not have personal disdain for you - but I do for some of the opinions you have voiced of late.
And please - don't let all of this drive you into the - figurative - arms of that wanker 'J' (as your picking up on the slang thing night suggest). It doesn't have to get to the point of self-abuse, surely?

[Vicki Richter]

Wow! A kinder gentler Allanah. ... and your fans on the board are always commenting on your ability to "rise above"... I guess it's pretty easy to rise above when everyone's agreeing with you all the time.

Luv ya girlie,

Vicki

[steeveX]

a 7 page thread ensued because allanahs ego got a blow at ONE club door. thats entertainment.

[Felicia Katt]

can we have the kinder, gentler J, please? that last post was so rabid and vicious you could see the spittle flying off of it.

Felicia

[Toro]

Sid-
B/C I dont give a RAT'S ASS.
btw that in American slang would be I care about the ass of a rat more that the negative stuff you have to say about me ;)
A little translation for you my dear Sid.
quote]
Well, in the English speaking world that'd be a rat's arse... But I digress.
Please read my response to you in the Trannyshack thread. I accept that it does appear to have degenerated into a fairly mailcious thread here (on both sides). Again - I do not have personal disdain for you - but I do for some of the opinions you have voiced of late.
And please - don't let all of this drive you into the - figurative - arms of that wanker 'J' (as your picking up on the slang thing night suggest). It doesn't have to get to the point of self-abuse, surely?

"In 1779, Joseph Banks (a naturalist) suggested that Britain could solve overcrowding problems in its prisons by transporting convicts to New South Wales. In 1787, the First Fleet set sail and settled at Botany Bay."

G'DAY, MATE!

Even our rednecks think you guys are backwards.

[Vicki Richter]

no vicky, foolish is coming back like a fucking loser after everyone basically said to you "good, go, fuck off, its pics of ur cock and not ur semi witty posts that we actually came here for!!!"

J, how does it feel to live in an imaginary make-believe world babe? I think you should replace the cobwebs and spiders with bumblebees and butterflies and take off that frowny face. Ooooh... There you go! Look!!! He's smi-wing. Coochie coochie...

I always come back. I have no will power and this is the only place I can push my evil agenda. Now show me your dick and shoosh.

Besides, I just said bye for a bit. ;) God bless you reverand.

V

[romeo]

everyone basically said to you "good, go, fuck off, its pics of ur cock and not ur semi witty posts that we actually came here for!!!"


Sorry but I come here just for these witty posts...Internet is full of hardcore pictures....the interesting thing of this board is just the possibility
to interact in some way with girls like Vicki or at least to know better who they are

[Toro]

no vicky, foolish is coming back like a fucking loser after everyone basically said to you "good, go, fuck off, its pics of ur cock and not ur semi witty posts that we actually came here for!!!"

J, how does it feel to live in an imaginary make-believe world babe? I think you should replace the cobwebs and spiders with bumblebees and butterflies and take off that frowny face. Ooooh... There you go! Look!!! He's smi-wing. Coochie coochie...

I always come back. I have no will power and this is the only place I can push my evil agenda. Now show me your dick and shoosh.

Besides, I just said bye for a bit. ;) God bless you reverand.

V

i just wish you'd start touring again - you were a much nicer person when you were with the allman brothers back in the day

[Vicki Richter]

i just wish you'd start touring again - you were a much nicer person when you were with the allman brothers back in the day

Yeah totally. That is Allanah on my right. Well in the picture on my right, but on my left in reality. lol. God I was hot back then. Her and I used to be great friends when we were brothers in the Allman Brothers. The tour with Journey was THE BEST!!!

Toro I remember you taking this picture. You used to suckle me at night when I went to bed and call me Big Eddie. Do you really miss those days as much as I do?

[Vicki Richter]

everyone basically said to you "good, go, fuck off, its pics of ur cock and not ur semi witty posts that we actually came here for!!!"


Sorry but I come here just for these witty posts...Internet is full of hardcore pictures....the interesting thing of this board is just the possibility
to interact in some way with girls like Vicki or at least to know better who they are


J = pwned! pwnage! pwnerama! 8)

By the way, anyone else seeing a remarkable similarity in Toro and J's posts, persona's, and moods? J did you really stoop so low as to create an alias to agree with yourself? That is funny shit.

[tslvr]

Just be nice to each other. I don't like discrimination, but it exists and we have to find a way to slow it down because it's not going away. I just love watching and reading this board and keep waiting for the day that Vicki responds by saying that she can't take it anymore and she just has to have me in bed and she's on her way to see me!!! Man, it's great to have fantasies isn't it?

[LAtoNY]

Icky,

We gotta hook up soon! When are you in LA next?!

Rian :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[SidChromeAU]

Hey Toro - when are you and your girlfriend J going to make the big announcement?
One of the reasons the Poms were looking for somewhere else to dump their convicts (btw, read: 'political prisoners' here in most cases - ie, the Irish and their own poor) was because of fractious colonists on the other side of the Atlantic making it difficult for them to dump too many there. The entire country being set up as a penal colony is a long-disproven myth, btw.
Of course, this is an interesting gambit from someone whose country leads the Western world in incarcerating it's poor and disenfranchised. You are currently doing to your people what the British did hundreds of years ago - a somewhat retrograde step, one might think.
And really: calling an entire nation into question because one of us is daring to disagree with some of you arseholes? Puerile.

[Toro]

Hey Toro - when are you and your girlfriend J going to make the big announcement?
One of the reasons the Poms were looking for somewhere else to dump their convicts (btw, read: 'political prisoners' here in most cases - ie, the Irish and their own poor) was because of fractious colonists on the other side of the Atlantic making it difficult for them to dump too many there. The entire country being set up as a penal colony is a long-disproven myth, btw.
Of course, this is an interesting gambit from someone whose country leads the Western world in incarcerating it's poor and disenfranchised. You are currently doing to your people what the British did hundreds of years ago - a somewhat retrograde step, one might think.
And really: calling an entire nation into question because one of us is daring to disagree with some of you arseholes? Puerile.

Wait a minute - Dicki thinks J and I are the same person, so you guys are going to have to get your heads together.

But here - Christ. Christian. Does that clear things up, you gay kangaroo? I don't know J. I think subjugative religious repression has brainwashed him into having a guilt or mental thing against writing 'Christ', but that's about all I know about him. I was born Catholic but have become Buddhist. Oh - I also know J's at least not an asskissing fool like a lot of the people defending Vicki just because they have a hard on for her (sic).

Now let's get to the important shit. ('living in america...hi-dee-hi...across the na-tion') Putting aside your attempt to wash clean the records of the murderers, rapists and thieves that colonized your modern-day Anglicized society, your little dig about the 'English speaking world' is what got this going. You feel free to throw a barb at us by digging at our language, our slang, or our colloquialisms, which are an extension of who we are, so get with it. Grow some fucking balls and take your lumps.

[SidChromeAU]

Hate to break it to you, but a lot of non-Americans have taken to considering your version of English to be 'American' (or American English) because of the enormous changes that have evolved in the language as you speak it. Hardly an enormous insult, was it?
As far as the whole murderers and rapists thing goes: look at some of the statistics please. There were, of course, criminals of that type Transported, but most were principally guilty of the crimes of poverty and being Irish (a double-whammy after the famine). I'm not going to speak to this particular issue any further - it's not even close to germane to this board, we'll probably have to agree to disagree.
Finally: you have the gall to accuse those of us who agree with Vicki to be arse-kissers? What are you Acolytes of Allanah consistently practicing, then? I've rarely seen such a gathering of mindless sycophants.

[Felicia Katt]

I like this more recent picture of Vicki in action better. Not every girl can look this good in torreador pants. :)

Felicia

[Toro]

I like this more recent picture of Vicki in action better. Not every girl can look this good in torreador pants. :)

Felicia

Wow, great comeback. Where's the pic when the guy gets on your back and trots out to spear the bull?

Anybody else ever have a piece of gum stuck to their shoe?

[keyshawn19]

It seems funny that someone would bring up discrimination when alot of girls discriminate against men of color. Especially Allanah who makes it a point not to allow african american men near her parties or near her.

[LBCDO]

Ive heard of that happening a lot with girls in NY, but never heard that before with her. But is it really that bad in NY if you arent white? The first time I ever personally encountered that was with that girl Ana from the Brittney Spears exhusband conspiracy from FL. That girl was ALL stuck up. Talking about black and latin men arent worth shit [offended me twice in one sentence, LOL], stink, are broke, etc. etc. etc. the list continues. How can this girl say this when she is full blooded hispanic? I hear this a lot from people who are from NY. I cant understand that at all! I heard of a cuban girl with the same attitude, and I couldnt understand that because all the cubans I know are BLACK AS HELL! im talking about Wesly Snipes black, LOL. Im not into the whole escort thing, but thats the one thing that would piss me off if I were in NY, people not wanting to me because Im a nigruh!

[Bigguy]

Especially Allanah who makes it a point not to allow african american men near her parties
Where did that bs come from?

[GroobySteven]

It seems funny that someone would bring up discrimination when alot of girls discriminate against men of color. Especially Allanah who makes it a point not to allow african american men near her parties or near her.

That is absolutely bullshit. You've some other agenda going on but it seems obvious you've never been to one of her parties.
seanchai

[Felicia Katt]

It seems funny that someone would bring up discrimination when alot of girls discriminate against men of color.

As white girl with a ton of liberal guilt, I am not even remotely prejudiced. But I get a lot of online come on's where the very first thing they ask is "do you like black men?" How do I answer that? If I say yes, they presume I like them just because they are black , when I know nothing about them. If I say no, meaning I don't seek out men just because they are black, I get accused of being racist. I usually either don't respond. which I am sure is construed wrongly, or I say something neutral like it depends. Even that has been taken wrongly at times.

Some girls I know have nothing against black men, but they have nothing for them either. No attraction. If they say no, its for that reason, not discrimination There are also girls who like nothing better than attention from a black man. Any black man. Just because they are black. They don't discriminate, but they don't distinguish either.

I guess the point is that everyone has preferences. Some like breasts, some like ass, some are tops, some are bottoms, some like asian, some white, some spanish, some tall, some short. Just because you have a preference FOR something doesn't mean your are prejudiced AGAINST something else.

Felicia

[LBCDO]

I agree with you 100% there. I dont discriminate! How can I when Im a mutt myself? Give me booty in all types of flavors!

[Hungtop]

Vicki Richter,
All of the sudden you became a lawyer
You are dumb as hell.

That club had no right to prevent Allanah from going in.

But again, i guess you just want to show how much you hate Allanah and are so jealous of her.

Get a fucking life, and if you don't have a good thing to share, just shut up and watch.

Also, I don't know how some guys find you attractive. if you offer yourself for me for free i would never even piss on you, HAVE YOU EVER CHECKED YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR WHEN YOU WOKE UP.



Everybody, sorry about the language but again I am only a kid. :lol:

later,

[AllanahStarrNYC]

KeyShawn

What the hell are you talking about?
Are you delusional?

YOU have never been to one of of my parties because lots of black guys and girls come. How dare you accuse me of such.
Some of my staff is black- AND ONE IS A BLACK MAN.

I don't see color babe, I love all kinds of people.

BLACK MEN ARE MORE THAN WELCOMED TO COME TO ANY OF MY PARTIES AND NEAR ME AS WELL.

Just ask many of the black men I talk to every week @ my parties!
In fact, I met a really cute BLACK guy tonight.

SO get your facts stra8t.
I dont know why people hate me so much! Goodness, gracious, great balls of FIRE!!!!!!!

[LBCDO]

IN defense of Allanah, My friend Andre [the roomate of TSEVE] here in ATL, who is black, said he went to NY and met her and she was very very cool.

I think someone read the review on SER where someoen called her and he said that her response was she doesnt see black clients. Im not believing that review for shit based on my reliable source that I know personally said that she was cool and never even said that was an issue.

I just find it said that happens on the east caost so much. Thats crazy.

[ONEWORLD]

It seems funny that someone would bring up discrimination when alot of girls discriminate against men of color. Especially Allanah who makes it a point not to allow african american men near her parties or near her.

I THINK THIS IS THE MOST QUOTED POST OF THE DAY, LOL...

WAY TO SHAKE IT UP...

I'LL JUST SAY THAT I THINK YOU HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT A TS DOES AND NOT WHAT SHE SAYS…

I HEAR ALL THE TIME THAT CERTAIN GURLS ONLY DATE PARTICULAR RACES OR ETHNIC GROUPS; BUT I HAVE NEVER ENCOUNTERED THIS PERSONALLY…

I THINK THAT GURLS WHO ARE THAT PARTICULAR ARE REFERRING TO “DATES” AND NOT IN THEIR PERSONAL LIFE…

THEY GENERALIZE MEN BASED ON THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH THEIR“TRICKS” AND PERSONALLY; I’M NOT OFFENDED, THEY CAN RUN THEIR BUSINESS ANYWAY THEY SEE FIT…

AND ALSO FOR EVERY BLACK OR LATIN GURL THAT ONLY DATES WHITES, YOU’LL HAVE A WHITE GURL THAT ONLY DATES BLACKS OR LATINS…

TO EACH HIS OWN…

[keyshawn19]

I HAVE TO SAY THAT I DIDN'T MEAN TO GET SO MANY NASTY REACTIONS FROM PEOPLE.ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WHO CAN'T CARRY A POST WITHOUT CURSING SO MUCH.READ A BOOK ONCE AND A WHILE PEOPLE IT HELPS.WHY SHOULD I BE THROWN OFF FOR STATING A FACT ABOUT SOMEONE AND ALOT OF THE GIRLS IN THIS CITY.THE TS GIRLS THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO FIND THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE WITH BLACK MEN BECAUSE THEY TEND TO LAST LONGER THAN WHITE MEN AND WHITE MEN ARE MORE DOCILE AND EASIER TO PUSH AROUND. HEY I'M JUST STATING FACTS ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. I LOVE T GIRLS JUST AS MUCH AS ANYONE. AND JEALOUSY ISN'T WHAT THIS IS ABOUT HUN. LOVE YOU VICKI STAY REAL.

[d]

I HAVE TO SAY THAT I DIDN'T MEAN TO GET SO MANY NASTY REACTIONS FROM PEOPLE.ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WHO CAN'T CARRY A POST WITHOUT CURSING SO MUCH.READ A BOOK ONCE AND A WHILE PEOPLE IT HELPS.WHY SHOULD I BE THROWN OFF FOR STATING A FACT ABOUT SOMEONE AND ALOT OF THE GIRLS IN THIS CITY.THE TS GIRLS THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO FIND THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO BE WITH BLACK MEN BECAUSE THEY TEND TO LAST LONGER THAN WHITE MEN AND WHITE MEN ARE MORE DOCILE AND EASIER TO PUSH AROUND. HEY I'M JUST STATING FACTS ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. I LOVE T GIRLS JUST AS MUCH AS ANYONE. AND JEALOUSY ISN'T WHAT THIS IS ABOUT HUN. LOVE YOU VICKI STAY REAL.u didn't state a fact
u said black men can't come to Allanah's parties
which is untrue
that's why you're getting screamed on

[Felicia Katt]

Anyone know of any PR girls or White T girls in NYC that escort that aren't pushy or mean or racist that have contact #'s.In other words girls that you have has good experiences with I can't log on to SER.

Pot calling the kettle black?

Felicia

[Vicki Richter]

Vicki Richter,
All of the sudden you became a lawyer
You are dumb as hell.

That club had no right to prevent Allanah from going in.

But again, i guess you just want to show how much you hate Allanah and are so jealous of her.

Get a fucking life, and if you don't have a good thing to share, just shut up and watch.

Also, I don't know how some guys find you attractive. if you offer yourself for me for free i would never even piss on you, HAVE YOU EVER CHECKED YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR WHEN YOU WOKE UP.



Everybody, sorry about the language but again I am only a kid. :lol:

later,

OMG. Now I am jealous of Allanah. OK... from now on, anyone who disagrees with me or doesn't kiss my ass is officially jealous of me. I won't use any foundation of fact or solid foundation for formulating said opinion. However, because I say it, it must be so.

I will now use an example of your unquestionable brilliance when generating my rebuttle argument. All the guys here who have agreed with my logic are therefore also jealous of Allanah. Allanah is also jealous of me because she didn't agree with my argument. However, in addition to her, you are jealous of me because you critisized me. OMG you must want to be me if you said something which wasn't posey's and daffodils. That's kind of creepy.

It's nice to see Absolute Shade coming back and posting as a boy instead of pretending to be a TS. It's so much more healthy this way.

;)

Vicki

ps - your mama (hehe)

[SidChromeAU]

Can I kiss your arse?
Won't people talk?

[Vicki Richter]

Can I kiss your arse?
Won't people talk?

Who me? I hope so. ;)

[joyboy123]

Can I kiss your arse?
Won't people talk?

Who me? I hope so. ;)
Good to see you posting again. Gees, i'm such an a#$ kisser. :wink:

[LAtoNY]

Wouldn't mind kissing that snake of yours!!

Yowza!!

[Shining Star]

[quote="AllanahStarrNYC"]Saturday night I was out with a couple of gay friends and we wanted to go out to a few gay spots...
The gay community is usually wonderful to me and I really enjoy going to gay clubs...

HOWEVER

My friends wanted to stop by a popular NYC gay spot called Splash in the Chelsea area of New York-

Upon arrival, I was told I could not come in b/c no women allowed- ONLY MEN-



In fact no transsexuals allowed...


Splash has long had a policy of not "allowing" women and anything that resembles one in on most if not certian nights. Indeed many popular "gay" bars/dance clubs have a similar policy. Roxy disco used to be very nice towards trannies, but over the years that policy has gone back and forth.

Splash used to have a "no open shoes" rule. That meant if one was wearing open or open toed shoes was allowed in. Since mainly women and trannies wore open shoes or sandals out at night, that pretty much told you who the policy was designed for.

Such polices are not new, many gay bars/clubs both in NYC and elsewhere have long held a policy of keeping women/trannies and in some cases minority gay males out. Back when Christopher Street was "IT" in terms of the gay scene, the only bar that truly welcomed many black gays was Peter Rabbit. Uncle Charlies only wanted white gay males and made no bones about letting people know.

In fact most if not all the major gay circut parties are male only, but I think that is beginning to change.

Why the discrimination? Prevailing theory is gay males perfer being in an all male enviromment, and rather not have to deal with women and the special accomodations required (bath rooms). The only trannies or drag queens welcomed were the entertainment.

Think as being "gay" has become more "out" and "open" less gay guys from the burbs are showing up with their "fag hag" dates/girl friends in tow.

Another complaint was that too many trannies were conducting "business" inside the clubs. Exit barred trannies based upon this.

Finally it seems as the gay culture has moved towards every one being all buff and muscles, along with masculine, trannies and drag queens were perhaps seen as pulling the culture down. It is worth noticing when NYS finally passed a Gay Rights law, transgender was NOT included.

Notwithstanding all of the above, many gay bars in Europe prefer only to cater to men. Last time I was in Paris, we went all around the Marais district looking for a club/bar to hang out in, and each time was told they did not welcome women. Guess I should be happy they didn't say "travesti".

Finally have to say don't think many gay males, especially some white upper class gay males like trannies all that much. Maybe it's a race/socio-economic thing.

[Shining Star]

Ive heard of that happening a lot with girls in NY, but never heard that before with her. But is it really that bad in NY if you arent white? The first time I ever personally encountered that was with that girl Ana from the Brittney Spears exhusband conspiracy from FL. That girl was ALL stuck up. Talking about black and latin men arent worth shit [offended me twice in one sentence, LOL], stink, are broke, etc. etc. etc. the list continues. How can this girl say this when she is full blooded hispanic? I hear this a lot from people who are from NY. I cant understand that at all! I heard of a cuban girl with the same attitude, and I couldnt understand that because all the cubans I know are BLACK AS HELL! im talking about Wesly Snipes black, LOL. Im not into the whole escort thing, but thats the one thing that would piss me off if I were in NY, people not wanting to me because Im a nigruh!


How bad is it for non-white NY'er's in general? Put it to you this way, try being a black man or woman for that matter and hail a cab in Manhattan below 96th street. Walk into a high street shop and get followed, that is if they even buzz you into some of them.

Many white gay males, despite calling themselves a "minority" and comparing their battle for "civil rights" with the black civil right fight, are as bigoted as their straight counterparts. Being gay has not stopped many of these men from going to the right colleges and landing great jobs with nice salaries and lifestyles.

As for Cubans and "blacks", that is an old story. Growing up we had a woman down the road who was Cuban and told me to my face there was no such thing as a black "Cuban". This dispite the fact I could see tons of them at her family back yard BBQ's. It was not until I began studying world history things fell into place.

South America, Cuba, any where that was colonised by Europeans developed a society that matched Europe. That is white/blonde/blue land owning/wealthy "Spanish" at the top and mulattos, Indians, Blacks, and so on made up the rest. Remember also Blacks and Indians were used as slaves so descendants of those slaves make up the darker races of today. Hence if you are light skinned with "European" features it means your family's blood was "pure".

[Shining Star]

Well, I havent kept up with this whole topic in detail, but as for me, and my thoughts on this subject: I'm straight (well, my friends have their own opinions when I bring a T out with us LOL), I have gay friends, date t-girls and GG's, hang in straight bars and gay bars...doesn't everyone? I mean, the gay bars play better music. In any case, if were ever denied entrance to ANY place (unless it was a private club kinda deal), I'd sue the shit outta them. That would completely ruin my night...and yes, discrimination in ALL forms needs to stop, I couldn't take my t-girlfriend with me to England simply because they "red-flagged" her passport application (the guy at the post office told her to go home and wash the make-up off, take another passport photo, and try and look more appropriate to the sex listed on her DL, I mean, we called the lawyer immediately, but it was too late for the trip for various reasons. She has her passport/visa now, but the whole ordeal was just ridiculous. They treated her as if she were wearing a halloween costume, and this girl is hot! Um, okay...that's my rambling post of the day...oh yeah, I would think, it makes sense, that guys who dig t's would be the most-open minded, liberal types of all. I guess not. Weird.

It would be wonderful if all discrimination would end, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Least of all with the conservative/religous right gaining ground.

As for suing anyone/thing in NYC you'd better have your ducks in a row before even thinkig about it. Make no mistake, whomever you are taking to court if they have a half way decent lawyer will go over your life/background with a fine tooth comb. If one is a trannie, that means you'd better have nothing else in your past besides changing your sex.

A group of young trannies sued a major toy chain in NYC because they were refused the ladies room and taunted. Court verdict, yes they were discriminated against. Amount awarded as damages? IIRC less than $10 dollars EACH. Last time I heard the trannies lawyers were appealing to at least have the court force the store to pay legal fees.

So in the end the girls may have won a moral victory over the toy store, but it cost time in time,money and having their business put out in the media/street. Not a great return on investment in my book.

Amadan Lepore and Sophia, two famous trannie performers sued a famous NYC nightclub when they were fired because the club suddendly "banned" trannies. The girls won, but the club long closed and was insolvent. IIRC they are still trying to find assets to attach/get their money.

[xionel]

i began reading the post at page 1 and its been so enlightening & engaging. im so elated to have found this forum to peruse through last nite. i admire ur uncompramising bravery & empowering character Allanah, and found all the dialogue that ur ordeal at splash provoked so stimulating. it was so neat to meet u & ur friends last year in nyc. that sorta happnd to me n my bf before. last year i wanted to check out a gay bathouse with him in hawaii one nite called maxs gym. i suspected they prefered to admit just guys so i dressed like a boy and used my more androgynous prehormones id. it was neat when we got in, in spite of having to go butch. but we abruptly left cuz he frieked when a guy tried to bone and pinch him. i look fwd to learning more from ur inspiring posts and the responses to them.

[Ecstatic]

Xionel, welcome to HA! I visited your website and it seems you have a fascinating story and a wide range of interests. I love your photo gallery--not just because you feature some truly beautiful shots of yourself, but because of its candid nature, kind of a travel guide or diary of your travels.

As you've probably noted, there's a fair amount of contention at times on the board, but by and large we're a good group and I'm glad to see you join. Aloha!

[ManMoMiu]

Thought I might add a recent example of door discrimination my transgendered girlfriend and I encountered in Bangkok. Some of you who travel to BKK will know the place - CM2 at the Novotel Hotel. CM2 is a large hotel bar and disco, managed by the hotel.

Last week, there were three of us - Me (Amercian), my lady (Thai), and one of my partners from work (Chinese). We were appropriately dressed and of good disposition. At the door, and after looking at my lady's ID, she was refused entry.

We asked the reason for the rejection - they stated they had instituted a new policy of barring all "ladyboys" from the club. They said they had some "problems" from them in the past.

My girlfriend has a college degree, works at a large multinational insurance company, is presently getting an additional higher degree in night school. We have been together for 5 years.

This was quite a shock, especially since we had been there two months ago with a group of friends.

I asked why they had banned all "ladyboys" as opposed to just they ones who had caused "trouble". They had no answer. I asked if there was any other group banned - there was not. I asked if any men had ever caused trouble at the club. They said yes. So I asked whether they had banned just the trouble makers, or all men. Only the trouble makers. So on and so on.

This sort of discrimination is flat wrong.

We met with the hotel entertainment manager, and I tried to maintain my "cool head". He confirmed the policy. I told him letters would be on the way to the Hotel Manager, not there at the time, as well as numerous members of the Novotel Board.

Those letters have been sent. I hope it prompts change.

[morvital]

for what i saw and read i dont really agrey that there is no intre of t,s girl's to a gay club.
in the end we make the partyis more beuty and fun .
here in israel all the t.s geting to gay clubs for free ,and when it sayes no entre for women they mean born one.
and we are more close to the gay then the lesbien.

saw in the end u got in or not?