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LG
06-15-2007, 05:56 PM
An interesting article...I too feel there is a real momentum, that perhaps tolerance and acceptance (at least in Europe and the States) is just around the corner...

What do you think?

The Fact And Fiction Of Being Transgender
June 15, 2007
By REGINE LABOSSIERE, Harford Courant Staff Writer

A disgruntled playboy becomes a female fashion magazine editor. A rock star born biologically male finds her true self. A boy is scripted freely adding a pair of girl's shoes to accessorize his outfit.

Transgender people have become the new go-to characters on television on such ABC shows as "Ugly Betty " and "All My Children" and the FX show "The Riches." They also have become the topic of more news reports in recent months.

A Florida city manager is fired seemingly for disclosing he will have a sex-change operation. A sports reporter in Los Angeles decides it's time everyone learns who she really is.

A sibling in the famous acting Arquette family has brought the struggles that a transgender person faces to the big screen in the documentary "Alexis Arquette: She's My Brother," which made its debut this year at the Tribeca Film Festival. The documentary follows other indie favorites, such as "Boys Don't Cry" and "Transamerica," to bring lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender stories to the forefront.

Fiction and reality have mixed to bring an increasing presence in the media of transgender people in the past six months. This is all positive for transgender individuals and society, say those who are active in the transgender community.

Mara Keisling, executive director of National Center for Transgender Equality, partially credits the Internet and medical advancements with allowing people to express themselves physically. That outlet, she says, has created a domino effect.

"There's so many trans people out that more and more people do have trans people in their lives, and that's going to cause more trans people in the media," she says . "... When the entertainment media stories happen, they really have a dramatic impact. When they're done sympathetically, they make people feel safe and more willing to come out.

"When they're done maliciously, that has a chilling effect, makes people feel less willing. It's really that simple."

The country saw both sides in recent months when, in February and March, the Largo, Fla., city commission voted to fire Steve Stanton as the city manager after 14 years on the job. Commissioners have said it was Stanton's judgment and not his decision to have a sex change operation to become Susan Ashley Stanton that cost him his job.

When Los Angeles Times sports writer Mike Penner wrote a first-person story in April, formally coming out to readers and co-workers about what his life had been like and what it would turn into by becoming Christine Daniels, the reaction was mostly favorable, says Daniels. Since coming out in the article headlined "Old Mike, New Christine," Daniels has been inundated with supportive emails and phone calls, received a promotion and keeps a blog on the Times website, latimesblogs.latimes.com/womaninprogress/.

"For some reason there's an acceptance or openness right now that wasn't there a year ago," Daniels says.

"One person who's known for doing an amazing job gets fired and another gets embraced," Keisling says. "Both of those stories really strike home because we now all know transgender people."

(Sarasota, Fla., city officials had named Stanton as one of six finalists for the Sarasota city manager position, but she didn't get the job.)

During the years that Daniels, 49, waited to come out, the Jerry Springer phenomenon, as she refers to it, where transgender people are portrayed as freak shows, caused her to grind her teeth in frustration. Daniels says so many people are closeted because of years of that kind of media portrayal.

But high-profile outings and more positively portrayed characters on television are all beginning to push the stigma aside, she says.

"It's just created a lot of discussion. There's a curiosity right now; it's opened the door for people. Between the e-mails I'm getting and the interview requests I'm getting, people want to know about this. I think that's what people can take away from 2007," Daniels says.

Damon Romine, the entertainment media director for the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, agrees that increased visibility creates an increased acceptance of "a community which has been misunderstood and misrepresented for far too long."

Romine lists the real-life stories presented on news programs and documentaries, including "A Girl Like Me: The Gwen Araujo Story" as avenues that make transgender stories real for everyone.

"This is breakthrough storytelling and really seems to just be the beginning," Romaine says.

Ryan Murphy, the creator of FX's "Nip/Tuck," is developing a new series for that cable network that will follow a male sportscaster and father's transition into a woman. The story is unrelated to Daniels' story. Fox and ABC also are developing shows that feature transgender characters, Romine says.

"There will never be acceptance of an issue without visibility, and it's these kinds of representations of the transgender community that will ultimately make the unfamiliar familiar," he says.

Jerimarie Liesegang, director of the Connecticut TransAdvocacy Coalition, a transgender civil rights group, says the results of the media's progress in Connecticut are "to be seen." As director of the coalition, she conducts training sessions and works a lot with state legislators.

"We hear more and more people coming up to us [saying], `We saw the "20/20" piece' or `Read the Newsweek article.' It influences them. They become more understanding," Liesegang says.

One powerful result of media attention would have been the passage of a Senate bill that would prohibit discrimination on the basis of gender identity or expression. The state legislature did not pass the bill, but other states have passed similar laws.

Keisling says there shouldn't be a backlash to the momentum transgender people have in the media right now.

"Americans have had to relearn this human-rights thing and this diversity and acceptance thing over and over as a society," she says. "People start understanding not only are they here to stay, but they're us. We're all in this together."
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Jericho
06-15-2007, 07:01 PM
An interesting article...I too feel there is a real momentum, that perhaps tolerance and acceptance (at least in Europe and the States) is just around the corner...

What do you think?



As much as i'd like it to be otherwise, i don't think the stigma is going to be lifted any time soon.

I think you could probably compare it to gays in the media.
For how long have they had a 'positive' image?

Hey, it's ok to be gay!

Yet, it still leads to this [The Gruesome Death of Shorty Hall]:
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=21601

Increasing the visibility, portraying TG people in the media in a positive role, as normal ordinary people has got to be a good thing, but, promoting tolerance and acceptance? Only amongst the tolerant and accepting.

Perhaps i'm just being pessimistic, but...

LG
06-15-2007, 07:22 PM
An interesting article...I too feel there is a real momentum, that perhaps tolerance and acceptance (at least in Europe and the States) is just around the corner...

What do you think?



As much as i'd like it to be otherwise, i don't think the stigma is going to be lifted any time soon.

I think you could probably compare it to gays in the media.
For how long have they had a 'positive' image?

Hey, it's ok to be gay!

Yet, it still leads to this [The Gruesome Death of Shorty Hall]:
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=21601

Increasing the visibility, portraying TG people in the media in a positive role, as normal ordinary people has got to be a good thing, but, promoting tolerance and acceptance? Only amongst the tolerant and accepting.

Perhaps i'm just being pessimistic, but...

Maybe, but you can't deny the momentum is there, and that more people are finding out about transgenderism (often, sadly, in the wrong way through provocative but sometimes pointless TV shows).

I think the tide is turning...slowly but surely...maybe in 5 maybe 10 years...and we can all help to turn the tide.

SarahG
06-15-2007, 08:14 PM
I think the tide is turning...slowly but surely...maybe in 5 maybe 10 years...and we can all help to turn the tide.

IMO it always seems to be "maybe in 5 maybe 10 years"

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

peggygee
06-15-2007, 08:33 PM
We do have a long way to go, but the genie
is out of the bottle.

Almost everyday a new piece of legislation is
proposed or ratified somewhere in the world.

The tide of public opinion is swaying. More
importantly, transpeople have seen increasing
modicums of freedom.

And freedom is like a drug, the more you get,
the more you want.

I've been in this world long enough to have seen
many revolutions, I know one when I see it.

And this my friends is the real deal.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/81813507245ccbc7647828.gif

LG
06-15-2007, 09:48 PM
We do have a long way to go, but the genie
is out of the bottle.

Almost everyday a new piece of legislation is
proposed or ratified somewhere in the world.

The tide of public opinion is swaying. More
importantly, transpeople have seen increasing
modicums of freedom.

And freedom is like a drug, the more you get,
the more you want.

I've been in this world long enough to have seen
many revolutions, I know one when I see it.

And this my friends is the real deal.


Fingers, crossed Peggy, but I think that's right.

tonkatoy
06-15-2007, 10:10 PM
I think I might have mentioned this in another post, but nobody reads what i type anyway, so i will mention it again. I heard a piece on NPR a few weeks ago, cant remember what show it was, but they were talking to gay and lesbian activists who were complaining that gay was becoming to mainstream. There were several people they interviewed who were against gay marriage because they felt it was selling out, that being gay was their way of being different and that was what set them apart from society and made them controversial. One woman on the show, kind of sneeringly I thought, talked about how transsexuals were the new gay, and she freely mixed the terms transsexual and transvestite. She went on to say that transsexuals were now 'on the edge' sexually, but that is how she framed her argument.

I guess what I took from this is that I don't think the ts community is going to find much support from the gay community, at least not as far as anti discrimination and other political/legal issues goes. I don't know if it is jealousy or what. I think that gays like to perpetuate the image of drag queens, like that is what a ts is. There are many many ts women who live pretty normal lives, really the only big roadblock is physically passing. Not saying that should be as important as it is, or seems to be.


I too hope that transsexuals will find less restrictions and more opportunity in society, it is happening, just not fast enough.

LG
06-15-2007, 10:18 PM
I think I might have mentioned this in another post, but nobody reads what i type anyway

I read what you type...sometimes :lol:

I think it's weird that some gays would rather be "on the edge" than be accepted and that "gayness" (for lack of a better word) is actually seen as an alternative lifestyle choice. I also cannot understand how some gay people are so unsympathetic to the TG cause. I don't say you have to group them together (LGB has now been replaced by LGBT in some places), but there are similarities in the struggle for tolerance and acceptance in the campaigns for gay and transgender rights.

peggygee
06-15-2007, 10:41 PM
I think I might have mentioned this in another post, but nobody reads what i type anyway, so i will mention it again.

I heard a piece on NPR a few weeks ago, cant remember what show it was, but they were talking to gay and lesbian activists who were complaining that gay was becoming to mainstream.....

I had read your post about the gay activists stating that transsexuals,
were the new 'cool' sexual minority, I just didn't get a chance to
respond to it.

I also found that Peggy Lee post.

For the record this is Peggy Lee >>>> http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/peggylee.gif

<<<< And that's Peggy Gee, we both give 'fever', but she
is the much better singer. but thank you very much for
the kind sentiments.

I've also been following your musings on earth moving
equipment, and was actually going to ask you some
questions about that at some point.

Also from previous posts of yours, I have a sense of
your previous significant other.

And finally, I just saw your thread, where you asked
if any of the women had other women as clients.

And, did they have any pictures of those tete-a tetes.

Nothing gets by our radar.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/RadarTest.jpg

:wink:

tonkatoy
06-15-2007, 10:47 PM
I don't say you have to group them together (LGB has now been replaced by LGBT in some places),


In the same segment i was referring to, none of the organizations that the people were representing, or were members of, included the t, and while they had gay and lesbian people on, they let one of the lesbians define transsexuals.

I never had any opinion on this topic, the one of gay (not happy) discrimination against ts before i dated a ts girl, then you could see the divisions. By the same token, however, there are ts women who almost verge on the homophobic, lest they be classed as gay or lesbian. I think as more ts people answer the call in their hearts or minds, and decide to live as who they are instead of living repressed their whole life, they are seen by some in the gay community as a threat.

Anyway, what surprised me by the NPR piece was how self centered, petty and shallow the people they interviewed came across as.

I read what you type also LG, sometimes....

Alison Faraday
06-15-2007, 10:52 PM
*deleted*

LG
06-15-2007, 11:02 PM
Interesting comments as always Alison.

I can't understand why someone would go through all the trouble of transitioning if they were just doing it for fun or for the attention. Did this person you know go through all the difficult parts of transition, like the hormones, the pills and the surgical procedures or was it just a matter of changing clothes and having a shave (I'm assuming this was a MTF TS but it's not clear from your post)?

Reading your post, I am curious to know where you stand on the idea that transsexuals are unique in their own way and should be valued for their differences (as discussed here: http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=21338 ). Also I'm curious to know where you stand on talk shows like Maury Povich and Springer (I'm not sure if Maury has ever been shown in the UK). Are TSs doing more harm than good by appearing on these programmes which often feel like freak shows or is any publicity good publicity.

TrueBeauty TS
06-15-2007, 11:12 PM
I'm deeply suspicious of transsexuals who use it as an attention thing. They bore the shit out of me. If I'm going to be friends with someone then the last thing I want to be talking about is transsexuals and your first padded bra.



I know MANY transsexual girls that want attention, fame & celebrity. I can't tell you how many girls I know that at one point tell me about the book they are writing about themselves, the documentary about them, the blog they are writing, etc, etc, etc.

I would also say, although it's not the only reason, but as far as escorting & porn go, many girls are addicted to the "fame" of it far more than the money or sex. "Hey, I'm on a DVD. Hey, I'm in a magazine. Hey, these guys worship me." (Actually, this is starting to sound pretty good.... :? )


This is no shade to all the girls that want that attention, but there seems to be something about trannys wanting fame more than the average person. Possibly.

Alison Faraday
06-15-2007, 11:31 PM
*deleted*

muhmuh
06-16-2007, 02:27 AM
mind me asking how many of these ts on tv are actual tses?

the one on ugly betty isnt for one which i think puts the article into a somewhat different light

LG
06-16-2007, 02:38 AM
mind me asking how many of these ts on tv are actual tses?

the one on ugly betty isnt for one which i think puts the article into a somewhat different light

I know that the tgirls in films are almost never actual tgirls. In 'Gaudi Afternoon' and 'Transamerica', for example, the TS is played by a woman and in 'The Crying Game', 'The World According to Garp' and 'Woman on Top' it's a guy.

Interestingly both Jaye Davidson and Harold Perrineau (from 'Woman on Top')look pretty good. John Lithgow, as you can guess, would not make an attractive TS.

Here's a relevant thread on TSs in music, the movies and on TV:

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=2006

yodajazz
06-16-2007, 06:08 AM
I know MANY transsexual girls that want attention, fame & celebrity. I can't tell you how many girls I know that at one point tell me about the book they are writing about themselves, the documentary about them, the blog they are writing, etc, etc, etc.


I would not say that it is so much about attention as it is they are aware of how deep their experiences are compared to an 'average' life. Their bodies and lives go through amazing changes that many people don't know is possible. I think some TS women rightfully have a sense of amazement about their own lives and think others would find it interesting also. I am one of those who find thier stories fascinating.



I would also say, although it's not the only reason, but as far as escorting & porn go, many girls are addicted to the "fame" of it far more than the money or sex. "Hey, I'm on a DVD. Hey, I'm in a magazine. Hey, these guys worship me." (Actually, this is starting to sound pretty good.... :? )

This is no shade to all the girls that want that attention, but there seems to be something about trannys wanting fame more than the average person. Possibly.

The other concept I want to bring up is called "validation". I would say that practically all TS's have made brave, but controversial decision to alter their bodies. We all know that there are many people who feel this is wrong. Having people 'worship' them, feeds the part of them that says they made the right decision. I say that all adult humans have a little insecurity in them. It is understandable that TS women have an insecure streak deeper than an average person. Fans provide "validation".

LG
06-17-2007, 09:53 PM
yodajazz, I can see your point about validation- it probably gives a great deal of moral support to these girls. But I'd say it's only something that helps them make it through life with a little less difficulty.

There's an interesting discussion in another thread on whether Brazilian girls are likely to revert to their male selves. I never thought that girls would go through all the trouble for money or recognition, and certainly I wouldn't expect a girl to have the op if she wasn't 100% serious- but maybe that's why psychological support is often given to girls about to undergo transformation.

Can anyone enlighten us?

TrueBeauty TS
06-18-2007, 07:53 PM
I too hope that transsexuals will find less restrictions and more opportunity in society, it is happening, just not fast enough.



OK, Tonka. I have to ask, is that the Silver Spade in your avitar?




.

tonkatoy
06-18-2007, 08:09 PM
I too hope that transsexuals will find less restrictions and more opportunity in society, it is happening, just not fast enough.



OK, Tonka. I have to ask, is that the Silver Spade in your avitar?




.

Yes, that is the spade. I was fortunate enough to see her several times while she was in service. I took the picture in my avatar after she broke. Here are some other pics. There was an effort to save her as a museum, but that failed, and last I heard they were scrapping her.