Stop the clash of civilizations!

[LG]

Note: I am posting this for your information and to encourage you to think about these issues. I do not wish to argue on this. Your comments are welcome but please keep the debate in this thread civil.

The text below is from a website called Avaaz.org

As major new challenges like climate change and escalating religious conflict threaten our common future, people from around the world are coming together to take global politics into their own hands. Avaaz.org (Our name means "Voice" or "Song" in several languages including Hindi, Urdu, Farsi, Nepalese, Dari, Turkish, and Bosnian) is a community of global citizens who take action on the major issues facing the world today. Our aim is to ensure that the views and values of the world’s people -- and not just political elites and unaccountable corporations -- shape global decisions. Avaaz.org members are taking action for a more just and peaceful world and a vision of globalization with a human face.

In our inter-connected world, the actions of political leaders and corporations are having a profound impact on all of us. To match the power and reach of global leaders and borderless corporations, Avaaz.org members are building a powerful movement of citizens without borders. As citizens without borders, we might not have the resources of governments, corporations or the media, but working together we can bring together millions of people around the world and make global public opinion really count on major global issues like poverty, climate change, human rights and global security.

Stop the clash of civilizations

Talk is rising of a ‘clash of civilizations’. But the problem isn’t culture, it’s politics – from 9/11 to Guantanamo, Iraq to Iran. This clash is not inevitable, and we don't want it.

So where to start? The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the key symbol of the rift between Islam & the West. It's time to step up and take the initiative.

Add your voice to the petiton below and we'll put billboards demanding REAL PEACE TALKS NOW in the streets of Jerusalem.

Petition to Israeli, Palestinian & international leaders:
The Palestinian-Israeli conflict lies at the heart of a global clash threatening to divide us all. People from every corner of the world want a just and lasting peace in the Middle East - and the international community can and must help bring all sides to the table. Start Real Middle East Talks Now, and stay at the negotiating table until we have peace.

Vote and view video here:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_the_clash/

[muhmuh]

maybe im too cynical but i dont think any of this will have even just the slightest impact on out future

[LG]

maybe im too cynical but i dont think any of this will have even just the slightest impact on out future

Probably true, but it's worth a try. Maybe it can make a small difference- wake some people up, help create a new momentum. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[White_Male_Canada]

Pipe dreams, never gonna happen as long as Islam wants Jews driven into the sea and Israel destroyed, Hindus converted, Christians run out of the middle east, etc, etc.

[guyone]

Allahu Akbar min kulli shay!

[chefmike]

Allahu Akbar min kulli shay!

What? No bolsheviks?

[trish]

Reza Aslan spoke to our university recently about the dire situation in the middle east. Bin Laden portrays the our world as being the center-piece of a cosmic war of good against evil. Of course losing a cosmic war has eternal consequences; a cosmic war is simply a war you cannot afford to lose. It’s a war between God and Satin and we are the pieces on the blood red and fire blackened battlefield. Young acolytes and would be martyrs flock to this fantastical, cartoonish vision in the hope of striking a blow against the vile Satan, staying his black empire and also hoping to give their lives cosmic meaning (and of course there’s the virgins too). So what’s the worst response we can have to a event like 9/11? The worst response is to perpetuate the fantasy, to affirm that we are in a cosmic war of good vs. evil, that we are in the midst of a clash of God and Demons, a clash of their respective civilizations.

The middle eastern conflicts are not clashes of civilizations but rather overblown squabbles between families, tribes, nations and corporations over the usual sorts of spoils and disputes: land, power, oil, ports etc. As long as humans are greedy, envious and jealous of others (and I think that will always be the case) the powerful will trick the gullible into spilling blood for these sorry, worldly prizes.

When we fail to see this ourselves, when we describe these conflicts as clashes of civilizations or as a battle between the three monotheistic religions, we are playing directly into Bin Laden hands.

[muhmuh]

and of course there’s the virgins too

thats the thing i never really understood
if you have sex with them theyre obviously not virgins anymore so does that mean if you sacrifice yourself in the war against the west (wherever that might be on a sphere) youll only ever have sex for 72 times more? sounds like pretty bad deal to me

[ezed]

and of course there’s the virgins too

thats the thing i never really understood
if you have sex with them theyre obviously not virgins anymore so does that mean if you sacrifice yourself in the war against the west (wherever that might be on a sphere) youll only ever have sex for 72 times more? sounds like pretty bad deal to me

no, according to the book, after you take them, then they'll be considered whores and you can have sex with them as many times as you like as long as it's not in public. But your population is limited to seventy-two . No one bothered to think this thru.

[Oli]

No one bothered to think this thru.

Few, if any organized religions do!!

[qeuqheeg222]

i wonder why in 2007 we seem to be fightin with the mentality of 1007 a.d.so much tribalism and religious conflict..shit crusades and holy wars..inquisitions...remember wmc we in the glorious west had a good couple thousand yrs of bloodshed to smooth out our version of secular democracy..a couple of world wars too..

[tsmandy]

Once again the stated assumption is that they are unreasonable, and simply religious fanatics, while we are enlightened advocates of democracy. The official pronouncements of major power players in Washington paint a very different picture. Bush himself very openly has talked about waging a crusade (I'm assuming he knew that these words would be inflammatory and would likely serve to infuriate an already outraged worldwide muslim population) to defend Christendom, as have several of his closest advisors and financial backers. Not too mention the millions of Americans who gather weekly to discuss the "final battle" between good and evil.

I will certainly not deny that religion provides an impetus to carry out all manners of atrocity, but it is a two way street.

For those interested in challenging fundamentalist violence, as always, the real challenge is starting at home.

[LG]

Once again the stated assumption is that they are unreasonable, and simply religious fanatics, while we are enlightened advocates of democracy. The official pronouncements of major power players in Washington paint a very different picture. Bush himself very openly has talked about waging a crusade (I'm assuming he knew that these words would be inflammatory and would likely serve to infuriate an already outraged worldwide muslim population) to defend Christendom, as have several of his closest advisors and financial backers. Not too mention the millions of Americans who gather weekly to discuss the "final battle" between good and evil.

I will certainly not deny that religion provides an impetus to carry out all manners of atrocity, but it is a two way street.

For those interested in challenging fundamentalist violence, as always, the real challenge is starting at home.

Good points, Mandy.

Below are some quotes I found (and have already posted in another thread). Some food for thought perhaps..

"We have lobbed verses of Scripture, like hand grenades, into the camps of others, convinced we only have truth."
George Carey, Archbishop of Canterbury

"The fact is that more people have been slaughtered in the name of religion than for any other single reason. That, THAT my friends, is true perversion."
Harvey Milk

"It was Christians, you know, not Pagans, who were responsible for the Holocaust. It was Christians, not Pagans, who lynched people here in the South, who burned people at the stake, frequently in the name of this Jesus Christ"
Archbishop Desmond Tutu

"Religious belief is a fine guide around which a person might organize his own life, but an awful instrument around which to organize someone else's life."
Professor Richard Mohr

"What is intolerable is that the world's religions -- founded on the values of love and compassion -- should provide a pretext for the expression of hatred and violence."
Federico Mayor, former Director General of UNESCO

[ezed]

i wonder why in 2007 we seem to be fightin with the mentality of 1007 a.d.so much tribalism and religious conflict..shit crusades and holy wars..inquisitions...remember wmc we in the glorious west had a good couple thousand yrs of bloodshed to smooth out our version of secular democracy..a couple of world wars too..

BINGO! :)

[LG]

bUmP...bAdDaBuMp....

A thread worth reading for everyone who hasn't I think, plus a cool video...

[svenson]

i wonder why in 2007 we seem to be fightin with the mentality of 1007 a.d.so much tribalism and religious conflict..shit crusades and holy wars..inquisitions...remember wmc we in the glorious west had a good couple thousand yrs of bloodshed to smooth out our version of secular democracy..a couple of world wars too..

BINGO! :)

yes bingo