Rudy Guliani

[MrsKellyPierce]

Running for president.

I caught his election speech last night, and he was quite well spoken. And made some very good points in my opinion. I am not republican, but I feel he was right on how he worded certain things.

But what do you think of the "domestic partnership" plan. Is he giving all the rights or just to eople that have been together for a several years. He really didn't make that clear in his speech.

[whatsupwithat]

Running for president.

I caught his election speech last night, and he was quite well spoken. And made some very good points in my opinion. I am not republican, but I feel he was right on how he worded certain things.

But what do you think of the "domestic partnership" plan. Is he giving all the rights or just to eople that have been together for a several years. He really didn't make that clear in his speech.

Rudy Giuliani is an authoritarian and corrupt prick, and I say that nicely. If you think Bush is bad, vote for this guy and all your worst nightmares will come true.

He's not to be trusted. Ask the majority of NYers. We had him. We don't like him.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Running for president.

I caught his election speech last night, and he was quite well spoken. And made some very good points in my opinion. I am not republican, but I feel he was right on how he worded certain things.

But what do you think of the "domestic partnership" plan. Is he giving all the rights or just to eople that have been together for a several years. He really didn't make that clear in his speech.

Rudy Giuliani is an authoritarian and corrupt prick, and I say that nicely. If you think Bush is bad, vote for this guy and all your worst nightmares will come true.

He's not to be trusted. Ask the majority of NYers. We had him. We don't like him. lol I wouldn't vote for him, I am voting for Hilary. I just wanted to get an opinion on his speech from last night and his views on issues. Wow he made himself sound like he did all these great things for New York last night. Making New York one of the biggest cities safest place to vist. And less abortions yadda yadda.

[Coroner]

He´s been a democrat before, right? Or was it Bloomberg?

[lisaparadise]

i love the guy when he and his wife split he moved in with his gay friends and there are pix out there of him in drag he loves gays and trans.

[jefferson1776]

Running for president.

I caught his election speech last night, and he was quite well spoken. And made some very good points in my opinion. I am not republican, but I feel he was right on how he worded certain things.

But what do you think of the "domestic partnership" plan. Is he giving all the rights or just to eople that have been together for a several years. He really didn't make that clear in his speech.

Rudy Giuliani is an authoritarian and corrupt prick, and I say that nicely. If you think Bush is bad, vote for this guy and all your worst nightmares will come true.

He's not to be trusted. Ask the majority of NYers. We had him. We don't like him.

Your absolutely right, hes probably going to pass a worse version of the patriot acts and he is in it for the power. If he is elected we will be very close to a police state. Hes liberal in social issues, but he still sucks.

VOTE OBAMA FOR 2008!

[whatsupwithat]

He´s been a democrat before, right? Or was it Bloomberg?

Yeah. Doesn't matter what party he's with, though. He's really bad news. There's a lot of info out there on him. The only reason Giuliani is even running is because he was mayor on 9/11. Yeah, we, NYers, fawned over him that day and for a little bit after 9/11...until we remembered what a facist little prick he was.

[BlackAdder]

Im voting for Hilary as well. Im on the Libertarian ticket, but ive come to grips that theyll never have a candidate that can win after the Perot fiasco...Ill swear it till im dead, he was a plant I tell you!!!

[whatsupwithat]

Running for president.

I caught his election speech last night, and he was quite well spoken. And made some very good points in my opinion. I am not republican, but I feel he was right on how he worded certain things.

But what do you think of the "domestic partnership" plan. Is he giving all the rights or just to eople that have been together for a several years. He really didn't make that clear in his speech.

Rudy Giuliani is an authoritarian and corrupt prick, and I say that nicely. If you think Bush is bad, vote for this guy and all your worst nightmares will come true.

He's not to be trusted. Ask the majority of NYers. We had him. We don't like him.

Your absolutely right, hes probably going to pass a worse version of the patriot acts and he is in it for the power. If he is elected we will be very close to a police state. Hes liberal in social issues, but he still sucks.

VOTE OBAMA FOR 2008!

Exactly. Police state is exactly what America will get with this guy in power.

Lisa Paradise

No, he doesn't like gays. And he closed down every transsexual club in this city. He specifically went after the GLBT community.

[whatsupwithat]

Ill sweat it till im dead, he was a plant I tell you!!!

Had the personality of one, at least.

[chefmike]

No offense Kelly, but maybe you should stick to the "I just did my hair today!" threads...

[hwbs]

i dont think people outside the tri-state area realizes how dirty he really is...

[whatsupwithat]

i love the guy when he and his wife split he moved in with his gay friends and there are pix out there of him in drag he loves gays and trans.

I'm not sure if you saw my earlier post/response to you, but I think it's important it's repeated and you know that a picture or skit on SNL does not tell the real story, so...

No, Giuliani doesn't like gays. And he closed down every transsexual club in this city. He specifically went after the GLBT community.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Running for president.

I caught his election speech last night, and he was quite well spoken. And made some very good points in my opinion. I am not republican, but I feel he was right on how he worded certain things.

But what do you think of the "domestic partnership" plan. Is he giving all the rights or just to eople that have been together for a several years. He really didn't make that clear in his speech.

Rudy Giuliani is an authoritarian and corrupt prick, and I say that nicely. If you think Bush is bad, vote for this guy and all your worst nightmares will come true.

He's not to be trusted. Ask the majority of NYers. We had him. We don't like him.

Your absolutely right, hes probably going to pass a worse version of the patriot acts and he is in it for the power. If he is elected we will be very close to a police state. Hes liberal in social issues, but he still sucks.

VOTE OBAMA FOR 2008!

Exactly. Police state is exactly what America will get with this guy in power.

Lisa Paradise

No, he doesn't like gays. And he closed down every transsexual club in this city. He specifically went after the GLBT community. Did he really?

[MrsKellyPierce]

No offense Kelly, but maybe you should stick to the "I just did my hair today!" threads... Chef I was not supporting him, I was just sating he made some good points about not having to agree with him but he'll give his opinion anyways.

[chefmike]

And you can't vote for Hillary unless she gets the dem nomination, Kelly, and that's by no means a done deal this early in the race...

[BlackAdder]

Ummm yeah...of course, he is a Republican. After alls said and done, he still has to appease his party....What better way then striking out at the most reviled community if your a religious conservative?

[whatsupwithat]

i dont think people outside the tri-state area realizes how dirty he really is...

I know. It's amazing.

I haven't said this since the 2004 election or so, but...WAKE THE FUCK UP, AMERICA!!

[tombessence]

have you convinced yourselves that hillary likes gays?

[whatsupwithat]

Chef I was not supporting him, I was just sating he made some good points about not having to agree with him but he'll give his opinion anyways.

No, he'll do more than give an opinion. He'll ram it down your throat and make it law.

[timxxx]

He's making a play for the HA vote

[MrsKellyPierce]

have you convinced yourselves that hillary likes gays? NO I convinced myself that Hilary is a lesbian lol

[MrsKellyPierce]

Chef I was not supporting him, I was just sating he made some good points about not having to agree with him but he'll give his opinion anyways.

No, he'll do more than give an opinion. He'll ram it down your throat and make it law. lol then thats not a democracy that he was so talking up last night lol

[Quinn]

Gay rights
During his mayoralty, gays and lesbians in New York asked for domestic-partnership rights. Giuliani in turn pushed the city's Democratic-controlled New York City Council, which had avoided the issue for years, to then pass legislation providing broad protection for same-sex partners. In 1998, he codified local law by granting all city employees equal benefits for their domestic partners. Giuliani also allowed gays and lesbians to serve openly in his administration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani

[MrsKellyPierce]

Gay rights
During his mayoralty, gays and lesbians in New York asked for domestic-partnership rights. Giuliani in turn pushed the city's Democratic-controlled New York City Council, which had avoided the issue for years, to then pass legislation providing broad protection for same-sex partners. In 1998, he codified local law by granting all city employees equal benefits for their domestic partners. Giuliani also allowed gays and lesbians to serve openly in his administration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani Okay so by what Quinn just posted, that doesn't hold on what others are saying. He obviously doesn't hate gays.

[whatsupwithat]

He's making a play for the HA vote

Giuliani in drag is like Karl Rove rapping.

[whatsupwithat]

Gay rights
During his mayoralty, gays and lesbians in New York asked for domestic-partnership rights. Giuliani in turn pushed the city's Democratic-controlled New York City Council, which had avoided the issue for years, to then pass legislation providing broad protection for same-sex partners. In 1998, he codified local law by granting all city employees equal benefits for their domestic partners. Giuliani also allowed gays and lesbians to serve openly in his administration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani Okay so by what Quinn just posted, that doesn't hold on what others are saying. He obviously doesn't hate gays.

please. The last sentence alone should tell what BS this is:

"Giuliani also allowed gays and lesbians to serve openly in his administration."

So, did every other fuckin' mayor in NYC.

Or how about this gem:

"During his mayoralty, gays and lesbians in New York asked for domestic-partnership rights. Giuliani in turn pushed the city's Democratic-controlled New York City Council, which had avoided the issue for years, to then pass legislation providing broad protection for same-sex partners."

Read that. Show me where he actually did anything there. Did he pass it? No he, "pushed" for it. Excuse me? What a politically convenient term that is.

[whatsupwithat]

And let's talk crime rate. We can hear all day long what an amazing job Giuliani did taking credit for Bratton's work. But here's the truth on crime rates. So what makes Giuliani so special when it comes to crime? Nothing,

[Quinn]

"I'm pro-gay rights," he also said. Indeed, his position is so radical in this area that as New York City mayor he promoted a city ordinance that removed the distinctions in municipal law between married and unmarried couples, regardless of their gender.

"What it really is doing is preventing discrimination against people who have different sexual orientations, or make different preferences in which they want to lead their lives," Giuliani said, explaining the ordinance to The New York Times. "Domestic partnerships not only affect gays and lesbians, but they also affect heterosexuals who choose to lead their lives in different ways."

In other words, preserving a legal order that prefers traditional marriage and traditional families is "discrimination."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/06/opinion/main2438456.shtml

[General Disarray]

I miss Clinton
Those glory days when a man could hide a woman under his desk and no one would suspect a thing.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Ooh we got a good debate going on. You two are turning me on. Keep going.

[chefmike]

I miss Clinton


Who doesn't?

[whatsupwithat]

"I'm pro-gay rights," he also said. Indeed, his position is so radical in this area that as New York City mayor he promoted a city ordinance that removed the distinctions in municipal law between married and unmarried couples, regardless of their gender.

"What it really is doing is preventing discrimination against people who have different sexual orientations, or make different preferences in which they want to lead their lives," Giuliani said, explaining the ordinance to The New York Times. "Domestic partnerships not only affect gays and lesbians, but they also affect heterosexuals who choose to lead their lives in different ways."

In other words, preserving a legal order that prefers traditional marriage and traditional families is "discrimination."


He also took credit for the crime rate, Quinn. Cripes, he takes credit for 9/11.

The truth is Dinkins, although inept, was the one who put all this stuff forward. It materialized in Giuliani's reign. And, of course, he took credit for it.

An opinion piece on CBS lifted from the conservative paper, the National Review isn't going to cut it.

[MrsKellyPierce]

"I'm pro-gay rights," he also said. Indeed, his position is so radical in this area that as New York City mayor he promoted a city ordinance that removed the distinctions in municipal law between married and unmarried couples, regardless of their gender.

"What it really is doing is preventing discrimination against people who have different sexual orientations, or make different preferences in which they want to lead their lives," Giuliani said, explaining the ordinance to The New York Times. "Domestic partnerships not only affect gays and lesbians, but they also affect heterosexuals who choose to lead their lives in different ways."

In other words, preserving a legal order that prefers traditional marriage and traditional families is "discrimination."

He also took credit for the crime rate. And?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/06/opinion/main2438456.shtml I didn't see a response

[whatsupwithat]

"I'm pro-gay rights," he also said. Indeed, his position is so radical in this area that as New York City mayor he promoted a city ordinance that removed the distinctions in municipal law between married and unmarried couples, regardless of their gender.

"What it really is doing is preventing discrimination against people who have different sexual orientations, or make different preferences in which they want to lead their lives," Giuliani said, explaining the ordinance to The New York Times. "Domestic partnerships not only affect gays and lesbians, but they also affect heterosexuals who choose to lead their lives in different ways."

In other words, preserving a legal order that prefers traditional marriage and traditional families is "discrimination."

He also took credit for the crime rate. And?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/06/opinion/main2438456.shtml I didn't see a response

Look again. :)

[MrsKellyPierce]

"I'm pro-gay rights," he also said. Indeed, his position is so radical in this area that as New York City mayor he promoted a city ordinance that removed the distinctions in municipal law between married and unmarried couples, regardless of their gender.

"What it really is doing is preventing discrimination against people who have different sexual orientations, or make different preferences in which they want to lead their lives," Giuliani said, explaining the ordinance to The New York Times. "Domestic partnerships not only affect gays and lesbians, but they also affect heterosexuals who choose to lead their lives in different ways."

In other words, preserving a legal order that prefers traditional marriage and traditional families is "discrimination."


He also took credit for the crime rate, Quinn. Cripes, he takes credit for 9/11.

The truth is Dinkins, although inept, was the one who put all this stuff forward. It materialized in Giuliani's reign. And, of course, he took credit for it.

An opinion piece on CBS lifted from the conservative paper, the National Review isn't going to cut it. I think debates among men is the sexiest thing. Especially when it's legality law talk. It turns me on lol

[MrsKellyPierce]

I miss Clinton


Who doesn't? Hubby why don't you debate more?

[chefmike]

Is this a debate? I guess you would know more about that than me, huh? :roll: All I see is people offering their opinions on Rudy. I don't vote republican, that's my opinion on the matter. Don't get in over your head, sugarbritches...

[MrsKellyPierce]

Is this a debate? I guess you would know more about that than me, huh? :roll: All I see is people offering their opinions on Rudy. I don't vote republican, that's my opinion on the matter. Don't get in over your head, sugarbritches... :lol: :lol: I'm thinking with my head honey lol :lol: :wink:

[Quinn]

An opinion piece on CBS lifted from the conservative paper, the National Review isn't going to cut it.
With all due respect, I’m not the one whose approach “isn’t going to cut it.” With the exception of a single Wikipedia chart – which you didn't read carefully because it hurts your point rather than helping it – you’ve put forth nothing but unsupported conjecture. Furthermore, the National Review Online article you so quickly dismissed wasn’t supporting Giuliani, but, rather, was criticizing him for being too liberal on gay rights (among other things). Seriously, while there are most certainly legitimate issues that can be raised with Giuliani’s term as NYC’s mayor, being anti-gay isn’t one of them – at least not from a factual standpoint.

Since facts are important to any reasonable discussion, I would like to revisit some previous of your prior statements.


please. The last sentence alone should tell what BS this is:

"Giuliani also allowed gays and lesbians to serve openly in his administration."

So, did every other fuckin' mayor in NYC.
If this is true, I’m not personally aware of any gays or lesbians serving openly in previous administrations. Perhaps you can name some? Keep in mind this isn’t a “gotcha” question, but rather a genuine inquiry.


"During his mayoralty, gays and lesbians in New York asked for domestic-partnership rights. Giuliani in turn pushed the city's Democratic-controlled New York City Council, which had avoided the issue for years, to then pass legislation providing broad protection for same-sex partners."

Read that. Show me where he actually did anything there. Did he pass it? No he, "pushed" for it. Excuse me? What a politically convenient term that is.
Once again, with all due respect, I think you should familiarize yourself with how NYC’s government is structured. If we follow your logic, then no mayor has ever been responsible for a single piece of legislation in this city’s history because, strictly speaking, that power rests with the City Council. The fact is many pieces of legislation, though ultimately passed by the City Council, were pushed for by this city’s mayors – the aforementioned legislation being among them. However, if you have a contrasting view, I am all ears as to just who pushed for the aforementioned legislation to be passed.


The truth is Dinkins, although inept, was the one who put all this stuff forward. It materialized in Giuliani's reign. And, of course, he took credit for it.
I really don’t want to be rude because I truly enjoy the vast majority of your posts, but this is just plain wrong. Seriously, The Dinkins Administration presided over the loss of 300,000 private sector jobs, the devastation of the city's tax base, and mismanaged the city's finances with an almost criminal incompetence. And those are some of its more benign failures. The Dinkins Administration's only accomplishment that would have benefited Giuliani in any way was a small but consistent 36 month drop in the crime rate in the last three years of his term.


He also took credit for the crime rate, Quinn.
The Giuliani Administration was responsible for a drop in the crime rate that exceeded the national average's drop by a huge margin becuase of Compstat. Regarding this, the New York Times – long a critic of the Giuliani Administration – stated the following:

“the regular Compstat meetings are probably the most powerful control device ever devised for police.”

Harvard thought the program was revolutionary enough that it bestowed its "Innovations in Government Award" upon said program in 1996. Giuliani was even nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2005 for his efforts to reduce crime.

To get a real, statistics driven look at the Giuliani Administration’s record, look at the following link:

http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/chart_murdock02-13-07.html

See if you can find a mayoral administration of any large US city during that time or since whose record comes even close. You won’t.

-Quinn

[Quinn]

I miss Clinton


Who doesn't?

Agreed.

-Quinn

[whatsupwithat]

I miss Clinton


Who doesn't?

Agreed.

-Quinn

We never knew how good we had it.

[whatsupwithat]

First off, i need to say...I'm familiar with Dinkins and what he did and didn't do, as well as the economic downturn and crack epidemic under whose shadow he came into office.


With all due respect, I’m not the one whose approach “isn’t going to cut it.” With the exception of a single Wikipedia chart – which you didn't read carefully because it hurts your point rather than helping it – you’ve put forth nothing but unsupported conjecture. Furthermore, the National Review Online article you so quickly dismissed wasn’t supporting Giuliani, but, rather, was criticizing him for being too liberal on gay rights (among other things). Seriously, while there are most certainly legitimate issues that can be raised with Giuliani’s term as NYC’s mayor, being anti-gay isn’t one of them – at least not from a factual standpoint.


I wholeheartedly disagree. I believe he caved under pressure to certain factions but only after the road became very clear...or should I say already paved. In fact, it was Tom Duane, who in 1993, convinced Dinkins to offer domestic partner benefits to city employees. Once again, Giuliani, riding on someone else's steam and daring.





If this is true, I’m not personally aware of any gays or lesbians serving openly in previous administrations. Perhaps you can name some? Keep in mind this isn’t a “gotcha” question, but rather a genuine inquiry.

First one on Google hit. Tons more.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9E0CEFD7103FF933A25757C0A964958260



Once again, with all due respect, I think you should familiarize yourself with how NYC’s government is structured. If we follow your logic, then no mayor has ever been responsible for a single piece of legislation in this city’s history because, strictly speaking, that power rests with the City Council. The fact is many pieces of legislation, though ultimately passed by the City Council, were pushed for by this city’s mayors – the aforementioned legislation being among them. However, if you have a contrasting view, I am all ears as to just who pushed for this the aforementioned legislation to be passed.

No disrespect, but I'm very familiar with the way this city's government works.

The biggest advocate among many? Tom Duane



I really don’t want to be rude because I truly enjoy the vast majority of your posts, but this is just plain wrong. Seriously, The Dinkins Administration presided over the loose 300,000 private sector jobs, the devastation of the cities tax base, and mismanaged the cities finances with an almost criminal incompetence. And those are some of its more benign failures. The Dinkins Administration's only accomplishment that would have benefited Giuliani in any way was a small but consistent 36 month drop in the crime rate in the last three years of his term.

he Giuliani Administration was responsible for a drop in the crime rate that exceeded the national averages drop by a huge margin through the use of Compstat. Regarding this, the New York Times – long a critic of the Giuliani Administration – stated the following:

“the regular Compstat meetings are probably the most powerful control device ever devised for police.”

Harvard thought the program was revolutionary enough that it bestowed its "Innovations in Government Award" upon said program in 1996. Giuliani was even nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2005 for his efforts to reduce crime.

To get a real, statistics driven look at the Giuliani Administration’s record, look at the following link.

http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/chart_murdock02-13-07.html

See if you can find a mayoral administration of any large US city during that time or since whose record comes even close. You won’t.

-Quinn

Nice. If I may?

One, you mention the drop in crime rate under Dinkins as a trifle, yet go on to trumpet Giuliani's as near heroic. So, I plugged the Compstat quote above into Google and, hey, look what came up?

http://giulianiblog.blogspot.com/2006/11/rudy-record-crime-reduction.html

Listen, I'm all for better ways to manage crime, but to trumpet "Compstat" as the be all and end all of crime reduction is wrong...and to use a selective quote from the NY Times, who loved the man, is equally as wrong. And nominated for the Nobel peace Prize? Have you seen some of the past nominees?

Let's see, now, things he's taken or given credit for that he lucked into:

1) Less violent crime (Gun Control/End of Crack epidemic/National trend)

Based on the DOJ's findings (FBI Stats), between 1994 and 2001, violent crime in New York City went down 46.8%. During the same period, violent crime in the entire United States went down 53%.

Even Newark, NJ had a better record than us. Newark?

2) Squeegee men (Dinkins/Police Commissioner)

In response to an issue raised in a debate, Dinkins et al did something about the problem. Finally.

3) "Broken Windows" policing (James Q. Wilson /George L. Kelling/Police Commissioner Bratton)

You may not remember when Giuliani was running around taking all the credit...there was a bit of a riff between the Bratton and Ridy. A very large rift.

"Many New Yorkers might remember the circumstances of Mr. Bratton's departure from the NYPD. A trenchcoat-clad Mr. Bratton appeared brashly in front of a NYPD squad car on the cover of Time magazine on January 15, 1996. The headline emblazoned above his photo read, "Finally, We're Winning The War On Crime. Here's Why." Time's cover implied that Mr. Bratton was the crime-fighting hero. Mr. Giuliani's role as crime-fighter was reduced to an afterthought, at best. In the wake of appearing on the magazine cover and the tension that it created, Mr. Bratton resigned in March of 1996. It was thought that Mr. Giuliani had wanted him to leave."


4) Economic upturn (National)

I don't think I need to spell that out to you.

5) Crime reduction (National)

Dude, during his time, robberies went down 60% in NYC, and 56% nationally, burglaries went down 53% in NYC, and 49% nationally. In the neighboring state of New Jersey, violent crime went down 51% in the state's 6 largest cities between 1995 and 2004. And on and on and on it goes.

Giuliani is a media boogeyman. Nothing more.

[MrsKellyPierce]

wow SEXY

[jefferson1776]

Giuliani and the Republican Party's legacy is irrevocably tainted for the next election. So the argument is mute, I think the Republicans have a 20% chance of winning the 2008 election regardless.

[whatsupwithat]

Giuliani and the Republican Party's legacy is irrevocably tainted for the next election. So the argument is mute, I think the Republicans have a 20% chance of winning the 2008 election regardless.

I pray. I really do. The world could never take a Giuliani. Nor could this country.

[MrsKellyPierce]

I just wanted to get the boys to debate, it turns me on.

I never claimed to be smart. I've been fucked stupid too many times and quite enjoyed it THANK YOU. lol

[gummi baer]

Ill sweat it till im dead, he was a plant I tell you!!!

Had the personality of one, at least.Ficus? :lol:
I never claimed to be smart. I've been fucked stupid..hmmm-- Explains a lot.

[Quinn]

With all due respect, I’m not the one whose approach “isn’t going to cut it.” With the exception of a single Wikipedia chart – which you didn't read carefully because it hurts your point rather than helping it – you’ve put forth nothing but unsupported conjecture. Furthermore, the National Review Online article you so quickly dismissed wasn’t supporting Giuliani, but, rather, was criticizing him for being too liberal on gay rights (among other things). Seriously, while there are most certainly legitimate issues that can be raised with Giuliani’s term as NYC’s mayor, being anti-gay isn’t one of them – at least not from a factual standpoint.


I wholeheartedly disagree. I believe he caved under pressure to certain factions but only after the road became very clear...or should I say already paved. In fact, it was Tom Duane, who in 1993, convinced Dinkins to offer domestic partner benefits to city employees. Once again, Giuliani, riding on someone else's steam and daring.
I’m not sure where you’re going with this, but if you want to take this approach, then Dinkins and Duane rode on the coat tails of Koch, who issued the 1989 executive order granting gay couples hospital visitation rights and death leave, and Carolyn Maloney, who introduced the first domestic partner bill in 1990 (later sponsored by Tom Duane). At this point, You’ve only succeeded in stating that a previous mayor supported gay rights – which was never in dispute – but have yet to put forth anything to support your position that Giuliani is anti-gay. Furthermore, your assertion that Giuliani “caved under pressure to certain factions” doesn’t fit any established facts.



If this is true, I’m not personally aware of any gays or lesbians serving openly in previous administrations. Perhaps you can name some? Keep in mind this isn’t a “gotcha” question, but rather a genuine inquiry.

First one on Google hit. Tons more.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9E0CEFD7103FF933A25757C0A964958260
This is interesting and certainly satisfies the criteria; however, appointing an openly gay man to serve as the “City Coordinator of Aids Policy” is, according to prevailing views and prejudices of that time, akin to appointing a single, lone Mexican to be in charge of a presidential administrations immigration policy. Are there any more inclusive/substantial instances?



Once again, with all due respect, I think you should familiarize yourself with how NYC’s government is structured. If we follow your logic, then no mayor has ever been responsible for a single piece of legislation in this city’s history because, strictly speaking, that power rests with the City Council. The fact is many pieces of legislation, though ultimately passed by the City Council, were pushed for by this city’s mayors – the aforementioned legislation being among them. However, if you have a contrasting view, I am all ears as to just who pushed for this the aforementioned legislation to be passed.

No disrespect, but I'm very familiar with the way this city's government works.

The biggest advocate among many? Tom Duane.
Yes, but he and others failed to get the necessary legislation passed. In a post prior to this one you wrote the following:


Show me where he actually did anything there. Did he pass it? No he, "pushed" for it. Excuse me? What a politically convenient term that is.
It was Giuliani’s intervention that resulted in the necessary legislation passing when the efforts of others had failed. This is an excerpt from an Empire State Pride Agenda press release:

In 1990, the first domestic partner bill was introduced into the New York City Council by then Councilmember Carolyn Maloney. Beginning in 1991 Councilmember Tom Duane sponsored and championed the bill, eventually enlisting more than two dozen co-sponsors. In 1997, then Councilmember Antonio Pagan introduced a bill that would have codified the existing executive orders, but after vehement objections to its limited scope, it was not voted out of committee. Last summer, the Pride Agenda asked Mayor Giuliani to support and actively advocate for the passage of the Duane bill in the City Council. After a series of meetings with the Pride Agenda, the Mayor committed to "propose and lobby for passage" of alternative, but equally broad legislation.

Matt Foreman, Paula Ettelbrick and our New York City lobbyist, Ethan Geto, kept the process moving forward through several rounds of difficult and sensitive negotiations between the Mayor and Speaker of the Council.

Once again, in all of this there exists nothing to support your position that Giuliani is anti-gay. Rather, at this point, the opposite is in evidence.


Listen, I'm all for better ways to manage crime, but to trumpet "Compstat" as the be all and end all of crime reduction is wrong...and to use a selective quote from the NY Times, who loved the man, is equally as wrong. And nominated for the Nobel peace Prize? Have you seen some of the past nominees?
The New York Times “loved the man”?????? Giuliani’s a Republican and the New York Times is one of the more Liberal big papers in the nation. During his term(s) as mayor, the Old Gray Lady was among the Giuliani Administration’s most consistent and aggressive critics. It’s for this reason above all others that the aforementioned paper’s support for Compstat is a big deal.

The fact is that Compstat has been credited with being extremely effective by enough experts that it is now being copied by departments across the nation, particularly in municipalities that face serious crime problems (Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Broward County, & New Orleans, to name a few.). There’s even talk of copying Compstat at the state and federal level.

Lastly, before responding to your crime reduction argument, I need to know what you’re going with. Are you going with the below listed crime statistics – for which you have failed to post a single supporting link that would allow for any verification – or are you going with the chart you posted previously, which contradicts your overall assertion contained below by showing just how massive the difference is between New York City’s crime reduction and the national average. Pick one and post supporting links, then I’ll respond.

-Quinn

[lisaparadise]

i love the guy when he and his wife split he moved in with his gay friends and there are pix out there of him in drag he loves gays and trans.

I'm not sure if you saw my earlier post/response to you, but I think it's important it's repeated and you know that a picture or skit on SNL does not tell the real story, so...

No, Giuliani doesn't like gays. And he closed down every transsexual club in this city. He specifically went after the GLBT community. them im sory i said that cause the info came from a very important client who works in the government and he told me the story so i took him on his word,i try and not talk politics but i must say this race is gonna be very exiting not only to finnally get rid of bush but because there are really good people in the race for the first time in my lifetime

[TJ347]

this race is gonna be very exiting not only to finnally get rid of bush but because it appears there are really good people in the race for the first time in my lifetime

I hear you Lisa, but if you'll pardon me, I amended your comment to reflect my opinion, as these politicians all have a way of disappointing you more and more as they move into ever greater positions of power.

[2vert]

vote Ron Paul. who? exactly!