Do I have to "walk a mile?"

[Aragon21]

So many threads talk about not being able to understand the transexual and her transition without "walking a mile in her shoes."

Let's first just look at GGs:
Did I have to grow up playing with Barbie, watching "Jem," planning my wedding, playing cat's cradle, pat-a-cake, hopscotch, jacks or house (actually did that :D someone had to play the husband) to understand any girl I dated? NO
Did I have to listen to all their stories about past bad relationships, experiences and family issues to better understand the person they are? YES (remember this, all girls have phonographic memories and you better well remember what they told you--they will quiz you. :roll: )

Let's now take a look at TGs:
Do any of the above answers change? NO
Are there other considerations? YES

I don't think I need to "walk a mile in her shoes" to understand her. I need to actively listen to her concerns and life experiences, and I need to empathize as best I can.

This is true for all relationships no matter what kind. When I meet new people, we often talk about the things we did and watched as children. I find it fascinating the differences that something as simple as the after-school programs or Saturday afternoon movies can make in the development of a person's outlook in life (I had "Leave It to Beaver" reruns, Tarzan movies, and obviously Smurfs in my area.) What does that have to do with starting a relationship or understanding someone? Well it helps to understand where they developed their perspectives and characteristics from.

But more on topic, what is different? The transition! Did every girl here transition the same way? NO
Some had emotional support from their family, some didn't.
Some had financial support from their family, some worked 9-5 and some chose adult work.
Some started their transition at a young age, some later in life.
Some have had understanding LTRs, some have only been treated as sex objects. (True of all types of girls regardless of color, creed, or birth.)
Of those with LTRs, some have been good, some have been bad.
Many have felt scorned by their community, school or social group, some found a strong mentor very early.
Each of these factors (and many more that can only be explained by someone who has experienced it) go into developing their personality and outlook on love and life.

So again do I have to "walk a mile in her shoes" or can I use empathy? (As defined by Wikipedia, empathy is "the ability to 'put oneself into another's shoes', or experiencing the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself.")

My thoughts are I don't need to do the "walk" but I need to "see the path" to understand and feel the emotions that brought this beautiful person into my life. A universal truth as far as I am concerned for any lasting relationship, and as everyone at some point has experienced, not everyone that may have initially gone into a relationship has had the internal strength to fully empathize, man or woman.

[hwbs]

think a lot of what U see is a couple things...there are tons of guys in here who never even met a ts ,let alone dated one...these same people are the most critical of the girls in their postings . they also stereotype all the girls and try to put them in a box...that is why U get a lot of the angry feedback from our hung angels..you don't have to be an expert..you just need to be open and understanding.



just my :2cent

[Aragon21]

think a lot of what U see is a couple things...there are tons of guys in here who never even met a ts ,let alone dated one...these same people are the most critical of the girls in their postings.they also stereotype all the girls and try to if them in a box...that is why U get a lot of the angry feedback from our hung angels..you don't have to be an expert..you just need to be open and understanding
I agree with you and find it humorous that when I look at who's online and what percentage is actually registered (around 1-2%), the ladies here definately have a gripe about the guys who are treating them as sex objects.

I just was adding that there are people that empathize, will sit for the evening and hear you spill your heart and soul out, will do that night after night. The people, that just come here to view only and hide their true self from their wife, girlfriend and even deny to themselves, do this for GGs, yet many (most?) would not consider doing that with a transexual?

Why? I can empathize with them (not respect but empathize) but wanted to share how I felt, and get some feedback from those that understand what I'm saying, those that don't, and those that could expand on it.

[BeardedOne]

Most people look at it thusly:

You cannot judge a person until you have walked a mile in their shoes.

At that point, you are a mile away and have their shoes.

[Ecstatic]

I like your comment about needing to "see the path"--too many don't make that effort. As a non-transgendered person, no matter how empathetic I am or how well I know any number of transwomen, I will never really understand what it is to be them: but so long as I strive for understanding and being supportive, I'll do the best I can.

LOL@"phonographic memories": does that mean they play back in stereo?

[desu]

this thread is too cheezy and self congradulating.

i respect anybody who changes their gender indentity. it's kind of like being your own master of destiny. you don't accept the cards handed to you in life and go about changing it. i don't need to 'see the path' or any of that bullshit... it'd probably come across as fakery to any girl anyways

[Aragon21]

this thread is too cheezy and self congradulating.

i respect anybody who changes their gender indentity. it's kind of like being your own master of destiny. you don't accept the cards handed to you in life and go about changing it. i don't need to 'see the path' or any of that bullshit... it'd probably come across as fakery to any girl anyways
Why? I can empathize with them (not respect but empathize) but wanted to share how I felt, and get some feedback from those that understand what I'm saying, those that don't, and those that could expand on it.

I'll put you down for "don't understand it" and "can't expand" on it.

However, when someone like Ecstatic gets it, or someone like PeggyGee can expand on it (and I hope she does as I value her opinions) then I feel that something can be shared for the benefit of all.

Some of what I have read on this forum suggests that some of the ladies her don't feel like their "own master of identity" as you put it (should be mistress) as I have read alot of bemoaning options available to them professionally and personally.

I don't have to be self-congratulating to share my opinions and share my appreciation. It's called honesty, and if just one particular person is touched by what I feel or say and softens her heart and is comforted by how I feel, then I am happy. If anyone else has the same result, then all the better. And If someone wants to say this is bullshit so be it.

Good luck having a relationship with someone you don't or are unwilling to understand.

[blackmagic]

The phrase mostly gets directed at the men who want to be know-it-alls, and can't accept that they aren't. Especially the ones who act like little junior Hugh Heffners, and get so opinionated but have nothing to show for it. And all the cliche insults are usually not far behind, just in case their fragile male ego somehow gets hurt. They say stuff such as we're "crazy from the hormones", we "deserve what we get", we're "incapable of having real relationships", or even those who stoop to referring to us with male pronouns or worse, etc.

God i hate those guys who call TS male :smh

[Foto]

The phrase mostly gets directed at the men who want to be know-it-alls.

Arianna as usual you are so very right. And to tell you the truth all I know is that you have a really cute ass and that is about all I need to know for now.

[Aragon21]

The phrase mostly gets directed at the men who want to be know-it-alls, and can't accept that they aren't. Especially the ones who act like little junior Hugh Heffners, and get so opinionated but have nothing to show for it. And all the cliche insults are usually not far behind, just in case their fragile male ego somehow gets hurt. They say stuff such as we're "crazy from the hormones", we "deserve what we get", we're "incapable of having real relationships", or even those who stoop to referring to us with male pronouns or worse, etc.

This thread actually was started on my reflections after reading:
COULD YOU HANDLE A REAL RELATIONSHIP WITH A TS???????
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=2859&highlight=
This and several other posts had alot of what I underlined from your reply, what shocked me was it was also back and forth between the ladies in some of them too. Everyone on one thread, and I wish I could find that one, ended with "walk a mile" phrases.

It just amazed me how many people say you don't understand me and then make no effort to explain who they are and how they got there. As another thread near the top right now points out, the ladies here don't want "sissy" men, so do you honestly want someone who will put your shoes on is part of the point. I just keep reading so much cynicism and conclusion, and then read "walk a mile."

Unfortunately, I have read alot of stuff that is as you put it "so opinionated but have nothing to show for it. And all the cliche insults are usually not far behind" from both the men and women here, that it saddens me to think the rare LTR stories told here will remain just that, rare. :(

[yodajazz]

Aragon, I agree with your sentiments. In my philosophy, I like to emphasize what people have in common. We have all felt every emotion, fear, joy, love, shame, you name. While I might not be able to feel exactly what you feel, I can understand the feeling, because I have had it at sometime in my life. If I listen to you, then I could have some understanding of what you’re going through, and not be so judgmental. Arianna is right in that there are some self righteous people who think they should tell another person how to live without listening to who they are. Each story has a unique aspect to it.

The issue I am seeing is the opposite of empathy. That is, people saying that no one can understand them, and then use it as an excuse to do all sorts of negative things. We all do it to some extent, but I have found that people can justify any behavior, by claiming that.

[peggygee]

Empathy as defined by Webster, can be a good thing;

http://webster.com/dictionary/empathy

1b. the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive
to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and
experience of another of either the past or present without
having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated
in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this

However the closely related feelings of pity and sympathy, can be
problematic;

1 a : sympathetic sorrow for one suffering, distressed, or unhappy
capacity to feel pity

In discussing the two, oftentimes transwomen want others to
have empathy for their plight, to understand who they are, how
they came to be where they are in life.

That can be a good thing.

The problem arises when transwomen want sympathy and to be
pitied for their circumstance in life. What may occur here is that
the transwoman will adopt a 'victim mentality'.

They feel that all of their misfortunes have been caused by others,
and that they have no control over their lives. In effect their power
and control over their destinies has been relinquished.

And that's a bad thing.

[yodajazz]

The phrase mostly gets directed at the men who want to be know-it-alls, and can't accept that they aren't. Especially the ones who act like little junior Hugh Heffners, and get so opinionated but have nothing to show for it. And all the cliche insults are usually not far behind, just in case their fragile male ego somehow gets hurt. They say stuff such as we're "crazy from the hormones", we "deserve what we get", we're "incapable of having real relationships", or even those who stoop to referring to us with male pronouns or worse, etc.

This thread actually was started on my reflections after reading:
COULD YOU HANDLE A REAL RELATIONSHIP WITH A TS???????
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=2859&highlight=
This and several other posts had alot of what I underlined from your reply, what shocked me was it was also back and forth between the ladies in some of them too. Everyone on one thread, and I wish I could find that one, ended with "walk a mile" phrases.

It just amazed me how many people say you don't understand me and then make no effort to explain who they are and how they got there. As another thread near the top right now points out, the ladies here don't want "sissy" men, so do you honestly want someone who will put your shoes on is part of the point. I just keep reading so much cynicism and conclusion, and then read "walk a mile."

Unfortunately, I have read alot of stuff that is as you put it "so opinionated but have nothing to show for it. And all the cliche insults are usually not far behind" from both the men and women here, that it saddens me to think the rare LTR stories told here will remain just that, rare. :(

I believe that the human race need a lot more empathy. That would solve many of the world's problems, such as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

That being said, even empathy has it limits, however. This was demonstrated to me clearly by a HA thread, around last August. Yasmin Lee wrote, lamenting about her lack of a love relationship. I and others tried to console her. But Megabody basically called her out, saying she was full of shit for posting cock pictures, advertising her porn career, but wanting an exclusive intimate relationship. They ended up communicating privately while us, empathetic people were virtually ignored.

It wasn't that I wanted a relationship with Yasmin, either. My point is that people don't always give empathy the respect it deserves. But in reality it is one aspect of self-love. In Yasmin's case she needed a slap of reality of a different kind.

[Ecstatic]

An important, and oft overlooked, distinction, Peggy. Fortunately, the transwomen that I know personally take the first route, not the latter, and do not see themselves as victims.