Opinions on Sissy Topic

[Vicki Richter]

I was chatting with a married guy online about the fact that he dressed up for his wife in lingerie. I started telling him he should be careful with that because not a lot of women want their man to do that. I think shemales or TS are even less likely to want that in their male partner because we don't relate on the same levels. I also said that I felt that his wife probably thinks differently of him now based upon the fact that he wasn't a sissy when she met him and despite what women may say, they still want their man to be manly and their protector. He made the following comment:

"Just because I like to bend over or wear lingerie doesn't make me any less a man."

Now, I don't agree with what he just said, but I am interested in what everyone else here thinks. I tend to be overly opinionated.

[suckseed]

He's
1. Wrong
2. Kidding himself

[Fox]

I'd agree if it weren't for the lingerie... if that's what they like, that's cool, but I hope for his sake he's doing an equal (if not more) amount of dominating, because like you said, even if it's just a sexual kink, her view of him can change for the worse.

I mean, I wouldn't mind dressing up for my lady, but wearing women's clothes? I'm gonna pass on that one.

[Quinn]

He's
1. Wrong
2. Kidding himself

LOl... Total cosign.

-Quinn

[Legend]

********************

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

so you were really speaking to the wife in the relationship, huh....................

[BeardedOne]

"Just because I like to bend over or wear lingerie doesn't make me any less a man."

Well, yah, just because I take a barrel of she-cock up my ass doesn't make me less of a man.

Blatantly denying that I do, does. :P

[desu]

i dated a girl once who wanted me to dress up in lingere so I did it because I don't care either way. I dated another girl who was into overly masculine men and I dressed up like a skinhead for her.

never once did i feel my regular self-identity was in trouble because what happens between the sheets is just fun/fantasy. however if this guy dresses up ALL THE TIME then his wife will probably start questioning who she married. it's all about moderation

[Ecstatic]

What B1 said. If he's in denial, he's only fooling himself. But that doesn't mean his wife thinks less of him; she may think more of him in some ways (but she definitely doesn't think the same as she did before).

[RawNY]

I prefer Dr. Dentens, myself.

[BlackAdder]

I agree with suckseed....Dude is delusional.

[ARMANIXXX]

Listen,

This may not be my cup tea, and by the responses here, most people here aren't too interested in it either. But what gets people off obviously varies.
If a married couple seeks "strange", who's to say what's wrong or right? Why is this anymore strange than a married couple goin and renting, say, a transsexual hooker to stick her dick in both the wife and husband and cumming in both their faces and mouths?

heh.


The responses here are almost hypocritical. "OOOOh....I love sucking on TS cocks and havin them rammed up my ass, but dam.....that guy with the lingere with his wife.....what a freak he is".

[Vicki Richter]

I am glad to see others posting here. I think this topic is a slippery slope for the TS escort or performer. We know many of our fans are cross dressers and that's great. Everyone is entitled to their own fantasies. I think some girls are being careful about posting in here so as not to alienate male cross dressing clients.

Armani - I think what people are saying is the guy is stating he isn't less of a man for dressing in lingerie. They aren't saying he's a freak for doing it, only that his perception might be skewed.

[hwbs]

I think some girls are being careful about posting in here so as not to alienate male cross dressing clients.


agreed....they come bearing lots of coins... :lol:

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

I think some girls are being careful about posting in here so as not to alienate male cross dressing clients.


agreed....they come bearing lots of coins... :lol:

jokes aside I have heard some wild stories from GG's and TS' escorts about dudes paying them extra to wear their shoes, stockings, etc., even wilder variations included spankings or whips across the backside once dressed in said attire.............

to each his own I guess

[NadiaUSA]

There is nothing wrong with it. Plenty of women love it as a game. The most powerful men are into it. None of the submissives I have met act that way all the time. Its a fun forbiden game.

I think its easier to have fun with it if you know the man as the normal man by day first. That way its just a game of the socially forbiden behavior. It also should not be the only game in the relationship.

Women who are limited in their ability to expand the relationship end up shunning the game and pushing the man to an escort or dominatrix.

A wife may reject her husband for not being manly in bed because it seemingly ruins the identity of the couple. She is safe and comfortable in her role.

It's like there is an unspoken deal that you act this way and I will act that way so that we can reaffirm our identities and world view on a daily basis.

There is a great line in a movie , I think Casino, Robert Dinero's character is talking to someone about why he likes oral from his mistress and not his wife. He said " are you kidding thats the mouth that kisses my chidlren"

The point is the wife has a comfortable response from staying in her predeterminted role. We seek to reaffirm our roles and maintain the pleasure we get from it as if addicted to our feedback. The stepford wife gets a reward for being in her role. Its normal. It's pleasing to expect her husband to be a manly man and give her steady pleasure in a predictable manner. It brings a feeling of safety. And in all the other ways it supplies feedback based on the way she and he act.

But I admire the free people who can trust themselves and their man to play the games. Its not good or bad. It is what it is. What maters is your perpective.

I admire the ability of a dominatrix or stripper to sell a performance all the way down to the look in their eye. I like to wait until I have a solid rapport with someone before playing such a game. Somehow I like to know the person in safe, sane and otherwise normal before playing an advanced game.

People have all kinds of forbiden things that they like. Some are great fetishes to have meaning that are competletly harmless. Like a foot or shoe fetish. What a great thing if you see this a forbiden. Its inexpensive, easy to do and safe. Yet in the mind or the person with the fetish it is so taboo that it makes orgasm easier or more intense.

The point is rather than trying to stay in one role, try to find the ability to maintain the things you like about the standard roles, Such as manly- dominant and Fem- submisive, while being fre to learning to take in more.

Have fun and be safe.
Nadia

[wombat33]

I was chatting with a married guy online about the fact that he dressed up for his wife in lingerie. I started telling him he should be careful with that because not a lot of women want their man to do that. I think shemales or TS are even less likely to want that in their male partner because we don't relate on the same levels. I also said that I felt that his wife probably thinks differently of him now based upon the fact that he wasn't a sissy when she met him and despite what women may say, they still want their man to be manly and their protector. He made the following comment:

"Just because I like to bend over or wear lingerie doesn't make me any less a man."

Now, I don't agree with what he just said, but I am interested in what everyone else here thinks. I tend to be overly opinionated.

Me and my girl (gg) take turns taking the lead and she is the one that gets off on taking charge and bending me over to do anal play (with soething very small)

I can be totally happy either way. Like I said in the past, I am lucky enough to have a GF who likes TS girls too and shares the interest. She totally gets off watching TS hotties drill guys in the can.

In my opinion what you like in bed does not affect your manliness on the street or in your life.........................but I can see how a girl might not think of her man as a man if he wants to be the girl all the time.

I am not gay. I lobe GG first...........then TG..........I tried a dude once and it was ENTIRELY wrong and I bailed out.

I am rambling

[NadiaUSA]

Here is part of a fun story.


"I think baby's upset because he doesn't feel pretty enough for his baby dress yet" laughed Christine. "Let's do his makeup, he'll feel extra pretty after that. I'll hold baby's head while you fetch the bag from the other room" she said to Maria. Maria returned a moment later while Christine hopped onto the bed and knelt across Brian's shoulders, trapping his head between her knees and pressing his forehead into the mattress with the palms of her hands. Brian couldn't move his head an inch.

"Let's start with baby's eyes" said Maria, leaning in to Brian's face with a waterproof eyeliner pencil. A minute later the helpless Brian had thick black rims all the way round his eyes. "Now we'll make his eyelashes nice and pretty." Brian could only lie there motionless while his upper and lower eyelashes were coated with five coats, one after the other, of jet black waterproof mascara. "There!" exclaimed Maria, "Very nice." She looked down at Brian, as he stared back through his heavily rimmed black eyes. "Eyebrows next, I think, extra special girly ones for our extra special girly baby." Brian was horrified to see her uncap a thick black permanent marker. "Hold him extra tight Christine, I want to get them nice and arched." Christine felt Brian trying to struggle but she easily held his forehead down, his head clamped tightly between her knees.

Maria pressed the marker onto Brian's bare skin and a few seconds later he had thick, jet black lines arching high above each eye. "What pretty eyebrows, I don't think I've ever seen them that arched before!" laughed Christine. "Much nicer than his old ones!" she added. "Close your eyes Brian" commanded Maria, "these pink and blue markers may sting a bit but we only want to use the best makeup for our special baby". Brian had no choice. She proceeded to colour in Brian's eyelids with the bright blue marker, then his upper eyelids with the bright pink marker, the indelible inks soaking into his bare skin. She then drew a large, bright pink circle high up on each cheek. "Babies always have rosy cheeks, Brian, and you'll be no exception." Brian continued to struggle and moan into his gag. "Yes don't worry, we haven't forgotten your lipstick, Brian, I've got a nice permanent red marker here for that." She wiped the moisture from his lips with a cloth. Pulling on his lips bit by bit to expose all of them from around his gag, she painted them with the bright red marker. Brian grunted and winced as she worked but could do nothing as, bit by bit, his lips were turned bright red with indelible ink.

"There, now baby's makeup is all done!" laughed Christine, letting go of Brian's head and climbing off the bed. "And very pretty he looks too!" added Maria. "Christine, get the ear-piercing gun......

[Aragon21]

I was chatting with a married guy online about the fact that he dressed up for his wife in lingerie. I started telling him he should be careful with that because not a lot of women want their man to do that. I think shemales or TS are even less likely to want that in their male partner because we don't relate on the same levels. I also said that I felt that his wife probably thinks differently of him now based upon the fact that he wasn't a sissy when she met him and despite what women may say, they still want their man to be manly and their protector. He made the following comment:

"Just because I like to bend over or wear lingerie doesn't make me any less a man."

Now, I don't agree with what he just said, but I am interested in what everyone else here thinks. I tend to be overly opinionated.
I think what is missing here is whether he initiated it all on his own. Vicki is the only one who spoke with him, and I get the impression from the tone of this post that he "surprised" his wife.

Totally not my thing. Would I do it for a partner who asked for it? That would take some serious negotiation power on her behalf (probably would but not in any usual rotation.)

Does it make him less manly? Come on people, tell me you didn't lose some respect for J. Edgar Hoover's image the 1st time you heard (even those with no respect for him suddenly found they could have even less.)

If he initiated it, if it is his desire, not manly IMO.
Flip side, I do have respect for people that will do things for their partners that is not necessarily their thing.

[NadiaUSA]

However, I have my doubts that was some new kick never before stumbled upon my this gentlemen; which would indicate some level of deception on his part in regards to what was disclosed to his wife before their marriage

That was part of my point. To elaborate, lets say some kids get maried at 20 years old. The fall into social pressures of conventional thinking about their roles. The man believes he is a sinner and should not let himself think about these feminization fantasies and he should not tell anyone or his wife to be.

I suppose the wife has a right to reject the husband. The man is at fault for his part. However, it was the rigidity of their chosen outer self identities and their world views that was the cause of this problem. They enter into an agreement that they will reconfirm their pre-marraige self identities and both be rewarded with the pleasurable respones to the acting out of the social role.

However, people grow and change through the years, plus they free themselves from conventional repressive thinking. Many things are niether good or bad, its a matter of perspective.

I would hope the wife does not continue to adhere to the same mindset. But if she chooses to either she pushes him to an escort or other outlet or divorce.

I used the Casino quote to demonstrate this situation of the wife maintaining her conventional role and Robert Denerio's character getting a girlfriend for his release.

Regards,
Nadia

[Vicki Richter]

Nadia - it almost sounds as if you are using this as an opportunity to advertise for sissy men to come visit you as clients. I think the cross dressing thing is a very dangerous thing for any man to get into with his wife. First, when they divorce, and they will, she may use this against him and publicize his behaviors. This would certainly hurt him in child custody scenarios and friendships. It could hurt his career depending on how far she decided to take it. Secondly, I feel that men who wear lingerie and bend over as the guy stated also risk permanently altering whatever relationship they have. Some women appreciate female dominance as do some men, but I think the societal norm which exceeds 99% of the female population would prefer a man in boxers as opposed to one who raids their underwear drawer. I think the few who do it as experimentation are going to find the men want to do it over and over again, while they have tired of it after the first or second time. The novelty has worn off and they want their man back.

I feel that, due to the high number of views, and the low number of responses, there are many guys who like playing this way, and again girls are afraid of upsetting potential clientelle. That makes this a very challenging if not one-sided debate.

[NadiaUSA]

Nadia - it almost sounds as if you are using this as an opportunity to advertise for sissy men to come visit you as clients

Vicky, I do not accept many callers at all and I never accept calls from people who start talking to me about any fetish. These callers are just into getting off on the call and I cut them off at word one.

Nadia

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

I was chatting with a married guy online about the fact that he dressed up for his wife in lingerie. I started telling him he should be careful with that because not a lot of women want their man to do that. I think shemales or TS are even less likely to want that in their male partner because we don't relate on the same levels. I also said that I felt that his wife probably thinks differently of him now based upon the fact that he wasn't a sissy when she met him and despite what women may say, they still want their man to be manly and their protector. He made the following comment:

"Just because I like to bend over or wear lingerie doesn't make me any less a man."

Now, I don't agree with what he just said, but I am interested in what everyone else here thinks. I tend to be overly opinionated.

One, I think the guy is bored with his relationship with his wife and trying to put some sparks back into their dull sex lives. Two, I strongly feel that he already had this fantasy of dressing up in women's lingerie prior to marrying his wife. And just now out of boredom coming to the surface (He's gotten too close for his own comfort?). And Three, he might have had this "fetish" of his wife engaging into some lesbian love which most cd/tv's have (I know a married guy who said this to me and his wife encourages it. But to each his/her own). LOL :lol:

I personally am not into guys who dress up (Unless Im getting paid for that fantasy. ;) :lol:). Id like my man "All Manly" as much as possible. Sissy's doesnt do it for me. Submissive yes. But sissy's no! :evil: :lol:

;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[NadiaUSA]

Nadia - it almost sounds as if you are using this as an opportunity to advertise for sissy men to come visit you as clients

Vicky, I do not accept many callers at all and I never accept calls from people who start talking to me about any fetish. These callers are just into getting off on the call and I cut them off at word one.

NadiaI maintain that if some jackass parades up to my doorstep with his session gear on and his toys in his hands, he is doing a 180 and never coming back. :twisted:

Thats the creepy factor. That's why I said I have to know the person first.
A typical escort type client could never afford to see me that many times.

If I have a long term benefactor that I actually like, then it is possible but I am not advertising here.

[foolish99]

interesting topic/issue/question

and after some lurking, one where I will add my 2 cents --- since I consider myself to be the sort of person that Nadia is talking about I think

personally, I think there are differences between being submissive in bed, being a bottom, being a sissy/feminine in your general demeanor, and dressing in women's clothing. They probably correlate pretty highly, but I do not think that they are necessarily all the same or even closely related. Perhaps there are some people for whom all 4 things are true but there are a lot of others (I suspect) for whom only some are true.

take me for instance ....

I am pretty submissive in bed --- I enjoy a woman or (for the last 6-7 years or so) a tgirl, who is more aggressive and more dominant. I love giving oral and I love making the girl/tgirl totally satisfied. I also love getting tied up, blindfolded, teased, the whole deal.

I also love being a bottom --- pretty much for the same reasons as above --- plus I love the physical sensation itself.

But I also love being a top, being more dominant, teasing my partner, aggressively kissing/touching/etc my partner, etc. Neither as a submissive nor as a dominant roleplayer do I really get into anything too hardcore (slapping, hitting, spanking, etc. -- though if I had to choose, I suppose I would rather spank than be spanked).

On other hand, dressing up as a woman? Well, I tried it once about 1 year ago at the request of a girl. Frankly, it felt really silly and uncomfortable. It wasnt disgusting or repulsive or anything, it was just bad. Ugh. I felt stupid, like a man in a dress (which is what I was). Not exciting at all. Just sort of goofy. Totally inconsistent with my self-image.

ANd acting all swishy and submissive in real life? Well, the idea of that strikes me as far more repulsive than wearing a dress, acting like a woman behind closed doors. It is hard not to have total contempt for a man who does not act like a man. I do believe that a man has an obligation/responsibility/perogative to act like a man. To be in charge -- to be assertive -- to take what he wants (within the limits of the law of course). It is a competitive world for men and it is important for a man to be dominant and in charge. In both my professional life and in my personal life, I cannot imagine being anything other than completely in charge. In fact, my professional career is largely focused on finding the weaknesses of my adversaries and taking advantage of them.

But in the bedroom, well, as Nadia says, it is fun to switch roles and be submissive/servient to your partner --- and it can be a nice break from "real life" where being dominant/on/strong all the time can wear you out sometimes. (I work in an extremely competitive and hyperaggressive profession and like to consider myself very very successful at it).

[foolish99]

so after that long post -- here is a short question for the girls on the site ----

what do you think about a man (either a client or a boyfriend or friend --- and if answers are different for each, say so and why) who is relatively submissive/a bottom (at least part-time) but acts very masculine/hetero/traditional male role model in "real life"?

[NadiaUSA]

so after that long post -- here is a short question for the girls on the site ----

what do you think about a man (either a client or a boyfriend or friend --- and if answers are different for each, say so and why) who is relatively submissive/a bottom (at least part-time) but acts very masculine/hetero/traditional male role model in "real life"?

Thats normal. I have never seen a sub that doesnt act manly or normal by day. If he does he would be so flamboyant that there could be no deception or confusion.

On the other hand, weather by day or night alone, if he is only 100% sub in bed I dont see how you could hide that from your lover either.

The issue here is about a man revealing his part time fetish to a prudish wife.

Most women or TS dont want a fulltime 100% sub in bed. A man who is manly by day makes us feel more feminine and reaffirms our chosen self image. It is also desireable to have that at night. But games are fun too.

[Kriss]

Most intelligent posts I have read here this month (especially as Alison deletes her's before i can read them). I like NadiaUSA, This girl is more than a pretty face. More please. :claps :claps :claps

[Solitary Brother]

I was chatting with a married guy online about the fact that he dressed up for his wife in lingerie. I started telling him he should be careful with that because not a lot of women want their man to do that. I think shemales or TS are even less likely to want that in their male partner because we don't relate on the same levels. I also said that I felt that his wife probably thinks differently of him now based upon the fact that he wasn't a sissy when she met him and despite what women may say, they still want their man to be manly and their protector. He made the following comment:

"Just because I like to bend over or wear lingerie doesn't make me any less a man."

Now, I don't agree with what he just said, but I am interested in what everyone else here thinks. I tend to be overly opinionated.

Watch it!!
Your gonna offend a LARGE number of HA contributors.

[Kriss]

Watch it!!
Your gonna offend a LARGE number of HA contributors.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Like that has ever bothered Vicki Richter before!

[Jamie Michelle]

I was chatting with a married guy online about the fact that he dressed up for his wife in lingerie. I started telling him he should be careful with that because not a lot of women want their man to do that. I think shemales or TS are even less likely to want that in their male partner because we don't relate on the same levels. I also said that I felt that his wife probably thinks differently of him now based upon the fact that he wasn't a sissy when she met him and despite what women may say, they still want their man to be manly and their protector. He made the following comment:

"Just because I like to bend over or wear lingerie doesn't make me any less a man."

Now, I don't agree with what he just said, but I am interested in what everyone else here thinks. I tend to be overly opinionated.

You're a sissy, too, Vicki. The definition of a sissy is a genetic male who is feminine in some way.

Didn't you ever get teased for being a sissy when you were younger? Or did you just magically transform into your tranny self?

But I can understand a wife's misgivings with a genetic male like that. A lot of the guys who say things like that are hairy as a wildebeest and have the build of a linebacker. I find other *feminine* trannies sexy, but the hairy guys in panties are certainly a turn-off for me. And I can understand why a wife wouldn't find that sexy, either. The main reason is the disconnect with such a man trying to be girlie, yet he still looks masculine as all get-out.

Women's bisexual sides are more out in the open than men. If a woman gets with another woman, not much is thought about it. It's far more accepted than two genetic males getting with each other.

I don't think most women would actually be turned off by the idea of making love with a feminine genetic male--indeed, I think that would turn most women on, if the male truly presented a feminine aspect. Rather, they're turned off by a physically butch male (hairy and big, etc.) getting into panties and such. The reason they're turned off is because there's such a disconnect between the overwhelmingly butch aspect that he presents combined with the fact that he's attempting to be feminine. It just creates a disharmonious mix which almost no one is liable to find sexy.

It's one thing to be a chick with a dick: ultra sexy (because it involves a genetic male submitting himself to being diminutive, i.e., taking on the role of a female). It's another thing to be a hairy wildebeest in panties: not so sexy (because the physical body aspects of a masculine male still remain, yet he is attempting to present himself as feminine)

That's the explanation for this disconnect. It's not actually a mysterious thing once one understands the dynamics behind it.

And by the above I'm not saying that a number of these hairy men in panties aren't as genuine in their feminine desires as a lot of the full-time trannies. It's a fact of nature that life deals people bad cards. We are born into the body were're born into, and we get the upbringing that we get. So everyone has to deal with that. Possibly a number of those hairy men in panties praid to God to be made into girls when they were young, and through the circumstances of life wound up married, having a butch body, yet still enjoying dressing up.

But just because hairy men in panties enjoy dressing up doesn't mean other people will find it sexy. And probably most won't.

---

By the way, Vicki, I recall a post by you wherein you referred to your lower cock-receptacle as a "mangina." While that term appealed to me on a certain level, it was still way too masculine-sounding to work as a proper term for a girlie-boy's lower love-hole. Hence, the idea of boygina came to me.

Even though I thought up the word on my own, I did a Google search on it and I found out that others have thought of that word before me. No matter, as it still serves as a far more girlie term for your boy-pussy than "mangina."

[the Adrienne Barbeaubot]

I've never had the desire to dress in women's lingerie or apparel nor to be a sissy.I am mainly in control of my life and job,but I do like to be submissive and /or dominant in the bedroom so to speak. I enjoy the switch/role play games ,but as I stated these fetishes are only for private bedroom experiences and fantasies and not for my everyday life. I like to be dom and I like to be sub. However, some people cannot distinguish fantasy from reality. There are those who believe that the world functions as a porno movie. This is not so. the actors and actresses in those flicks lead regular lives.They don't have massive orgies every night. They are regular people who earn a living by providing adult entertainment for the masses who are interested in the different aspects of sex. Just as I earn a living by working in the medical field. Bottom line is: it's a job (although a pleasurable job at that).I guess I'm just rambling but I'm just in the rambling mood tonight. :)

[the Adrienne Barbeaubot]

Damn! I didn't realize that was my 100th post.I'm a junior now.YAAAAAAAY. :D

[RangeHova]

I really don't get why he would be less of a man for a kink that he enjoys. That kink ain't my kink and I truly don't get what he could get out of it. But the fact that he is doing what he is doing with his woman tells me that he is a man.

In fact with all the dick I have sucked and stroked (t-girl dick that is) I would feel like a hypocrite to call him less of a man for wearing clothes.

People outside of this board might be inclined to see me as less of a man for my attraction and sexual play with transexual women. They might even say I am even less of a man than the man that wers panties for his wife.

That is why that kind of judgement is bullshit. I would think with all the bullshit judgement that gets placed on transsexuals and thier admirers that we wouldn't fall victim to the same type of bullshit on others.

The fact that I don't get his kink and what he gets from that kink, makes me know that I don't know enough about it and where it comes from to pass judement on this man's manhood.

[NadiaUSA]

I find other *feminine* trannies sexy, but the hairy guys in panties are certainly a turn-off for me. And I can understand why a wife wouldn't find that sexy, either.

It's fear. Sure its not pleasing to the eye and it may mean work, to play an unusal game, but for the wife it's more than that. It's fear. She is afraid of the impact on the relationship. An impact specifically on her getting a person to play the role that will give her the life and feedback that she is wanting as a reward for her working so hard at her role and her identity.

How brave would she be to know he would give her what she wants regarless of the sissy side to him. Perhaps she is not that strong. Maybe he needs to comunicate enough to give her to confidence.

This is all for the men who want their wives to assist in their fantasy. Perhaps they don't. Perhaps he feels, regarless of her involvement, she wouln't have the eye of the tiger in the game. If you say to someone "smack my ass" and they give you tenitive baby smacks, that is too lame for maximum pleasure.

[BrendaQG]

What ever gets you off.

[TJT]

As long as they both get on their knees and suck my dick,I could care less what their motivations are.

I like to tie lil' sissy boys up and make 'em watch as I fuck their wives.

[SarahG]

I really don't care what 'kinks' a guy i am with might have, so long its not something that I find completely repulsive (think skat etc).

I did once have someone ask me out, who was at the time trans but not in any way transitioned... and knowing I had a preference for guys, they went on and on about how if they were with me, they'd never transition so I could be with a guy.

The whole concept was very disconcerting to me, I am bi and all, but I most certainly wouldn't want someone who is trans to be stuck in the wrong mode, and them thinking they would need to definitely hurt their chances with me.

[Byrdman]

I really don't get why he would be less of a man for a kink that he enjoys. That kink ain't my kink and I truly don't get what he could get out of it. But the fact that he is doing what he is doing with his woman tells me that he is a man.

In fact with all the dick I have sucked and stroked (t-girl dick that is) I would feel like a hypocrite to call him less of a man for wearing clothes.

People outside of this board might be inclined to see me as less of a man for my attraction and sexual play with transexual women. They might even say I am even less of a man than the man that wers panties for his wife.

That is why that kind of judgement is bullshit. I would think with all the bullshit judgement that gets placed on transsexuals and thier admirers that we wouldn't fall victim to the same type of bullshit on others.

The fact that I don't get his kink and what he gets from that kink, makes me know that I don't know enough about it and where it comes from to pass judement on this man's manhood.

Could not agree more. Well said!

[mikejones]

Nadia, some of your posts on this topic are very intriguing. I guess this is an aspect of the TS community that I never considered in detail. My girl is a girl in everyday life and in the bedroom, and this suits me fine. But the posts in this thread imply that sexual tastes are much more varied than I had expected. Very interesting and well written posts.

[Vicki Richter]

No, James. Vicki is not a sissy. She is a transgendered woman, or a M2F pre-op transsexual. TS often suffer extreme gender dysphoria before transitioning, regardless of how the world perceives them.
.

Jamie is a kook on here with crackpot ideas about almost everything. We just humor Jamie. Jamie - why don't you share with us about some of the interesting work you have written "Why Satan is in my kitchen", "The dogs that look like gerbils conspiracy", and "How transsexuals are secretly corrupting America."

[peggygee]

My SO wearing womens clothes wouldn't work for me.

There is only one women and one man in my relationships
and never the twain shall meet.

[strawberry]

OK... married, post-op, no sex work and no customers to potentially scare away. My take:

The part that would freak me out about the deal, the part that I think the wife in the original post might be legitimately fearing, is people who are in way way way deep denial over who and what they are and the only place it comes out is in their secret sex lives (not even their normal sex lives).

There's a percent of guys into transwomen who ARE, in fact, gay and in denial. The way you tell in retrospect is when they stop dating pre-ops and start dating dudes. (With a knife to the heart of the girls that they'd used as stepping stones.)

In another direction... There's a "joke" that goes around:
Q. What's the difference between a TV and a TS?
A. Seven years.

If a guy is into kinky stuff and comes off as self knowledgeable and adjusted then I think it's cool because to "know thyself" with your sex stuff is even harder than with other stuff. Yay for self understanding and self acceptance and finding your bliss and finding a partner who is cool with that. Those guys aren't going to pull the rug out from under your self esteem and a future life together.

BUT... if a "straight guy" is into the exact same kinky stuff and is pulling self deluding one-liners out of his ass to blindly cope with shame and denial then that's a guy who should be abandoned by his wife in an instant because he's already shown a propensity for lying (to himself and his wife) about what's really up. And the self delusion indicates he still hasn't dealt with everything... he's probably got more "tricks" up his sleeve if he gets some self-acceptance and wifely-acceptance with this round of "surprise!".

When I got SRS, nearly all the other patients were in their 40's and 50's. Like... yay for them maybe finally figuring out their own deals... but I couldn't help but wonder how many of them had creamed in their own panties over being dressed up as maids in their 30's and eventually abandoned their wife who'd given them her youth before getting tossed aside (maybe with a guilt spike: "You'd become lesbian for me if you really loved me!") so they could finally be their "true selves". Some of them would bitch about their ex-wives taking all their money and I'm supposed to be sympathetic and whatever... but a big piece of me was silently thinking, in exchange for her 20's and 30's that doesn't even begin to pay for what you did to her...

It's not kink that creeps me out.

It's the kind of unethical life arc that sometimes goes with kink that's messed up. I know that's not how it always goes, but it's what I'd be worrying about.

[Vicki Richter]

Nice post.

[strawberry]

Thanks :-)

Watcha want to bet I killed the thread though?

:-P

[NadiaUSA]

I actaully know married men that after years of being into trannys, has realised and confirmed with a counsler, that he is mildly gender dysphoric.

He did not want to leave his wife or kids so he makes sure he stays a man. That being said he has a wife that lets him dress up every blue moon and sometimes he has had me do his makeup and escort him to clubs. His wife knows and it does not affect the children, his job or his manly life.

If a man wants to fully transition after a marrage commitment then he is responsible for the damage for his part. How sad that a culture or society combimed with a lack of education delays someones finding themselves before the marrage.

So, there is a way to have fun with role reversal without destroying everything else.

As far a creepieness goes, of coarse it looks creepy or ugly. If a stranger comes up to you and wants to play an ugly game you would think they were weird. Thats why you have to know the person first. Then you can enjoy it for a forbiden game that it is.

[Vicki Richter]

I highly doubt his wife is OK with it. She tolerates it because they no longer fuck and she doesn't want to divorce because of the kids or humiliate her entire family either. It still isn't fair to her. Why do people stay married even when they are so obviously miserable? Your friends marriage sounds like a farce. It's like, "sure leave me home with the kids, you go out with your tranny and have her make you into a cross dresser and suck cock in the parking lot. Just brush your teeth before you come to bed sweety. Don't worry, you're still a man to me."

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[Vicki Richter]

Great question. He is a member of my forums and I guess he wanted to talk about his new cross dressing fetish.

[mikey_stl]

I was chatting with a married guy online about the fact that he dressed up for his wife in lingerie. I started telling him he should be careful with that because not a lot of women want their man to do that. I think shemales or TS are even less likely to want that in their male partner because we don't relate on the same levels. I also said that I felt that his wife probably thinks differently of him now based upon the fact that he wasn't a sissy when she met him and despite what women may say, they still want their man to be manly and their protector. He made the following comment:

"Just because I like to bend over or wear lingerie doesn't make me any less a man."

Now, I don't agree with what he just said, but I am interested in what everyone else here thinks. I tend to be overly opinionated.

I don't understand why any man would want to wear female clothing. Now if by bending over he means taking it up the ass, I don't think that makes him any less of a man. Most men love having their prostate stimulated, once they try it -- straight or gay.

[NadiaUSA]

I highly doubt his wife is OK with it. She tolerates it because they no longer fuck and she doesn't want to divorce because of the kids or humiliate her entire family either. It still isn't fair to her. Why do people stay married even when they are so obviously miserable? Your friends marriage sounds like a farce. It's like, "sure leave me home with the kids, you go out with your tranny and have her make you into a cross dresser and suck cock in the parking lot. Just brush your teeth before you come to bed sweety. Don't worry, you're still a man to me."

Haha, I don't think he does anything in the parking lot. He is wealthy and it is common for marrage to be about more than sex. There are kids and a way of life involved.

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[gottchoo]

Some pretty well thought out posts on here, especially by Nadia but lots of posts that are straight out judgemental, which i find ironic on a TS forum.

Where is the link to the standard "man barometer" that we are measuring one's manliness upon? Most people outside this forum would think sucking a cock or anal play makes you less of a man than someone who doesn't partake in such activities. Hell, many would even question those of us that find TSes attractive.

Just because someone has what some may consider oddball perversions, shouldn't bring into question their [compareable to what?] manliness.

I have a pretty intense foot/heel fetish for some time now and only recently have I thought what it would feel like to try on a pair [which i have yet to do]. To some, that may catergorize me disillusioned or in denial and "less of a man" but, less of a man than who? someone that doesn't want to wear a high heel? Can I make up for that manliness in other areas to bring me back up on the "manometer"?

As for the sissy thing, I think its primarily a domination thing, on both parts, just with a twist. As much as I love to domme in the bedroom, I'd love to change it up and be the object of assertiveness once in a while. Admittedly not to the point of being decked out in my wife's attire, but there are different strokes for different folks. Some may take the domination play a step further into humiliation which can be a huge reason why a man would want to be dressed up like a woman and treated like a sissy. I don't get the humiliation thing, but then again, other people may not understand my foot fetish and think its weird. Who is anyone to throw judgement upon someone else's kinks?

As for being with someone else and coming across newly founded perversions and being "afraid" to share them. It's all about trust really. Being completely open with someone's sexual quirks is the ultimate level of confidence you put into someone else. It leaves you completely vunerable and could devastate one if it isn't accepted by someone you love.

Damn my head hurts, my apologies of this reply is incoherent.

[SarahG]

-deleted-

[Vicki Richter]

I never said there was anything wrong with wearing women's cloths or taking cock. I just pointed out a few things about it I don't think is right. First, I don't think it is right for guys to run around behind their wives backs doing that. If you do do it, then you should be aware your wife will think differently of you and it will fuck with her head. The worst thing is she will be forced to suffer with it alone since she will be so embarassed and humiliated that she won't want to tell any of her friends or family in order to get advice. If you have kids with her, she might feel even more trapped into accepting you for fear of losing her family. For the few women who like it, and suggest it, well you have found yourself a winner. Great! For anyone not married, then I say, you can do whatever you want to do, but don't act like you "dress up in lingerie and bend over" to feel masculine. Also don't get defensive about someone questioning your masculinity when you, deep inside, already know the truth.

I find it interesting that you would highlight Nadia's posts since she is the only one really saying what you want to hear. "Yes it is OK if you cross dress. It's sexy. Women love it. You are just as manly as Arnold in your lingerie".

I think if we did a poll for Redbook we would find that 30-40% of women would be open minded to experimentation with a guy cross dressing or taking a strap on. However, if asked if they would want it to be a regular part of their sex life, I think that number would shrink to well under 5%.

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[gottchoo]

I agree wholeheartedly that one shouldnt run around on their partner's back seeking approval from someone else. Cheating is cheating no matter if its
"vanilla" sex or cheating with a twisted kink to it.

Staying on cheating, kink and why people may stray, I think its comes down to the approval of your whole self again. If my SO denies this, they deny me; if someone i rarely know denies it, it doesnt matter as much. Not saying I agree with it or condone the behavior, but I can understand the mindset [to a degree].

I dont argue that someone should feel the need to dress up and bend over to feel masculine as much as they shouldn't feel any less masculine if they do. And if someone puts that "tag" upon them, then what are they comparing it to?

Obviously the guy is insecure if he is even offering that little disclaimer "that it doesn't make me less of a man". Ideally if he is with his true love, he should be able to open up to her and she should be accepting of him. Doesn't mean she needs to agree or like it, but accepting. And same for him. Im not talking about bringing a 3rd party into the relationship or sneaking around but ideally, your love should really accept all of you, even if you develope kinks and perversions after you start going out, engage or marry them. Of course, it takes tons of confidence and trust to open up to someone as well as that person getting over their own insecurities to accept someone they love for something that may be out of the normal [according to society].

I liked Nadia's approach to her posts b/c she seemed to get to the basis of why a man/couple would want to engage in such fetishes; because of trust in themselves, one another and realize that the bedroom is about fun and the personality between the sheets doesnt necesarily carry over outside the bedroom door.

As for the poll, imho it could just as well go the other way. Some chick could get into fucking her hubby with a strapon and really plowing the shit out of him and feeling in control whereas the man may not like it at all.

[gottchoo]

Btw, Vicki, great topic.

Agreed.

[Vicki Richter]

I liked Nadia's approach to her posts b/c she seemed to get to the basis of why a man/couple would want to engage in such fetishes; because of trust in themselves, one another and realize that the bedroom is about fun and the personality between the sheets doesnt necesarily carry over outside the bedroom door.


Really? Because I heard her say that she has a client (meaning she is getting paid to hang out with him) who cross dresses and claims his wife endorses the behavior. However, the wife conveniently doesn't participate.

Nadia is an escort. She is paid by men to indulge their fantasies. Of course she is going to take that approach. I would ask how many couples she entertains where the wife is fully involved. If the wife was, I doubt these guys would be seeing an escort.

[dabaldone]

He's
1. Wrong
2. Kidding himself

Now that's a great response! I agree!!

[Kriss]

Again Nadia is talking the most sense here (i'm such an asskisser)


Where is the link to the standard "man barometer" that we are measuring one's manliness upon? .

GOOD POINT. I think some girls (Vicki Richter) have a bizarre and un-realistic view of themselves and that is what this thread is about. It seems like Some girls(Vicki) build thier self-image entirely on what 'society' (media manipulated) thinks is appropriate behaivior for a woman. TS women seem to be so DESPARATE to be viewed and to VIEW THEMSELVES as 100% feminine women that they are totally vunerable to whatever trend or half-baked assumption the media pushes this week. Genetic women females whatever are NOT obsessed by the fear that their man may only be 99.9% "straight". It's fucking ridiculous, grow up, give us long suffering, confused 'men' a break and sort your own sense of self esteem out before playing psycological detective on us. Stop trying to set psych-sexual traps all the time and just chill out, have fun and enjoy your time with your guy. Why do TS women have give the independant woman bit (what's mine is mine and what's your's is also mine) yet they act like a 13 year old girl when it comes to relationships. I think many TS women are so unsure of who they want to be, what society expects them to be that they try too hard to be too girly. Embracing all that is superficial, shallow, avericious, self-centred, manipulative, basically all the qualities(or rather shortcomings) of Genetic women taken to the PEPSI FUCKIN MAX. loading chamber....Just because paris bloody stupid skinny bitch hilton is over promoted by the fickle media, TS women think "that's what a woman is/should be" and thus fervently emulate her every vapid pose.click, thats both cartridges They cultivate opulent addictions to the glamourous designers worn by movie stars(not porn stars) like aspiring musicians cultivate chemical dependances in a search for 'cool' or authenticity. gettig hard to type with shotgun now in mouth, peering ove barreerl at screen........

[Vicki Richter]

Wow you are so wrong about me. Anyone who has read my posts for any period of time would know how absolutely full of shit your thoughts here are Kriss. I could give a fuck about Paris and I don't respect her at all. I don't take my opinions from what anyone in Hollywood is like. I don't watch the news or Entertainment Tonight, or E channel. I don't read Hollywood gossip magazines. I don't even know most famous people's names. I definitely don't aspire to be like any of them. My opinions are my opinions, they aren't some media manipulated version of society. They are society.

If I fell into the stereotypical woman category, I wouldn't brag about online gaming, being a computer geek, having a 14" shark in one of my aquariums, playing fantasy sports with my fans, or be wearing hot pink, over-the-top nail polish. My ex-boyfriend of five years was 49 years old, grey hair, overweight, super hairy, but I was as proud to be seen with him as I would have been Dean Caine... and he was all man.

And for the record, pretty much all of my friends are GG's. I go clubbing with GG's. I goto dinner with groups of GG's. I don't even have any true TS friends at the moment. I know what GG's think because I spend so much time with them and I always have. None of them want a prancing cross dresser for a boyfriend and if they do, they don't brag about it like they do all manner of other things. If you think the majority of women or even a respectable percentage of them want their man cross dressing, goto popular singles site adultfriendfinder. Create a false ad with an average guy picture stating that you really like to cross dress. I bet you get no responses. Look at the women advertising there, how many that aren't escorts are saying they would be into that?

I have always stated that some women are more open minded Kriss, but of the TS I do know, I don't really know many who are actively seeking out CD's or want to date a guy into wearing their intimates. The ones that do, might be at the point in their lives where they are willing to settle. I know this is a sensitive topic, but please try to be realistic.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

This is pretty simple for me-

Ona personal level, I like a very masculine man. A man that looks, dresses, acts , and has the mannerisms of a man. I like to be treated as a woman. I like a man that opens doors for me, etc., and can take care of me, etc.

In the bedroom, I am very open minded and both sub and domme. I also like a guy who is a switch. I am very, very open minded. Though I am not into cross dressng my man at all, I would say pretty much antyhing should be able to go with a couple as long as one is honest with the other. I don't hold judgements towards what turns others on.

I think the problem a lot of people encounter is that they end up with a sex partner that they are ultimately not compatible with. People are so obssesed with telling others what the other person wants to hear, as opposed to the truth that it ultimately backfires. I can say this from first hand experience. I've found out something from a partner in the past and ended the relationship not because of what it was, but because they were not honest about it. As I mentioned, I am pretty much open to anything, except lies.

I don't think what you do in the bedroom has any bearing to who you are as a person. There are very powerful men in this word wearing panties under their Armani suits.

[Kriss]

. I know this is a sensitive topic, but please try to be realistic. sorry about that, i forgot this was a 'cd' thread, guess i was being kinda generalising, i know you are a geeky girl who's not into labels, i mean't the TS community in general, and i am being needlessly contraversial. I only singled you out as unrealistic because i know you can take it, and hope you see my little 'digs' as honest and not hate. i'm not a hater, I have a LOT of respect for you Vicki despite disagreeing with a LOT of what you write., that s why i am being a little provocative, I recognise that you are intelligent and can handle yourself in any debate. I am also i bit of a stirrer, i just wanna see what bubbles up to the suface.(could of chose a better analogy) perhaps i should have sub-catergorised my types of un-realistic TS women but i wanted to provoke angry responses from all corners.... my bad. Really i'm not attacking yopu Vicki, i'm a fan of your posts and I wouldn't be so directly confontational to the girls here who couldn't intelectually kick my ass. I know you like to stir it up, so do I, really , there is humour and much affection in my desparate rantings. Really i should have put it in another thread as my rant wasn't really about this CD thing but about the PERCULIAR PRE-OCCUPATIONS OF TS WOMEN. really i been spoiling for a fight since the 'women only want rough sex' thread. Hey i'm just a bored internet SHOCK JOCK, taking calls now...JAM THE SWITCHBOARD GIRLS.....

[Vicki Richter]

Oh well that's different. If you were just provoking more intense debate, then by all means carry on. ;)

I just don't want to get singled out as a Paris Hilton lover or wanna be. That was a terrible insult.

[Kriss]

There are very powerful men in this word wearing panties under their Armani suits.

and don't forget SUPERMAN, most powerful man in the world who OPENLY WORE PANTIES OVER HIS SUIT!!!!! Now THAT'S a real man.

[Vicki Richter]

This is pretty simple for me-

Ona personal level, I like a very masculine man. A man that looks, dresses, acts , and has the mannerisms of a man. I like to be treated as a woman. I like a man that opens doors for me, etc., and can take care of me, etc.

In the bedroom, I am very open minded and both sub and domme. I also like a guy who is a switch. I am very, very open minded. Though I am not into cross dressng my man at all, I would say pretty much antyhing should be able to go with a couple as long as one is honest with the other. I don't hold judgements towards what turns others on.

I think the problem a lot of people encounter is that they end up with a sex partner that they are ultimately not compatible with. People are so obssesed with telling others what the other person wants to hear, as opposed to the truth that it ultimately backfires. I can say this from first hand experience. I've found out something from a partner in the past and ended the relationship not because of what it was, but because they were not honest about it. As I mentioned, I am pretty much open to anything, except lies.

I don't think what you do in the bedroom has any bearing to who you are as a person. There are very powerful men in this word wearing panties under their Armani suits.

Always the eloquent hostess Allanah.

[Kriss]

I just don't want to get singled out as a Paris Hilton lover or wanna be. That was a terrible insult.

Really sorry about that, i should have been more clear and not attacked everyone in just one paragraph or maybe just left it for another thread that wasnt supposed to be about the CD thing.(or just gone out and shot some stray cats to cool off) I know you are no vapid airhead vicki, sorry to include you in my generalisations, I meant you regarding purely boyfreind expectations. I really don't mind all the hollywood shit either, thats what girls like, I like my stupid shit, they like theirs, it's all good. Its the glorification of superficiallity that gets me, the paris hilton thing, and not just her, the whole, if madonna does it, I have to do it. Girls all fall for it, G girls ang TS women,, I just think so many women worship fashion without actually cultivating thier own STYLE. oh shit off topic AGAIN,

[RangeHova]

I never said there was anything wrong with wearing women's cloths or taking cock. I just pointed out a few things about it I don't think is right. First, I don't think it is right for guys to run around behind their wives backs doing that. If you do do it, then you should be aware your wife will think differently of you and it will fuck with her head. The worst thing is she will be forced to suffer with it alone since she will be so embarassed and humiliated that she won't want to tell any of her friends or family in order to get advice. If you have kids with her, she might feel even more trapped into accepting you for fear of losing her family. For the few women who like it, and suggest it, well you have found yourself a winner. Great! For anyone not married, then I say, you can do whatever you want to do, but don't act like you "dress up in lingerie and bend over" to feel masculine. Also don't get defensive about someone questioning your masculinity when you, deep inside, already know the truth.

I find it interesting that you would highlight Nadia's posts since she is the only one really saying what you want to hear. "Yes it is OK if you cross dress. It's sexy. Women love it. You are just as manly as Arnold in your lingerie".

I think if we did a poll for Redbook we would find that 30-40% of women would be open minded to experimentation with a guy cross dressing or taking a strap on. However, if asked if they would want it to be a regular part of their sex life, I think that number would shrink to well under 5%.

If we did a poll of men that would be OK with a transsexual a lot of guys would say 'no fuckin way' a lot of those same guys would break thier neck trying to get a sniff of Vicki.

I just don't get how people like us, who live in our own little alternate universe could look down on another person with thier own issues.

Dating TS women has put me in a frame where I learned that people that don't share this thing that I have can never get what it is that I do. Evven the ones that accept it never get it. I look at my gay friends that freely support my dating if TS women when we go in depth talking about it, they show me that they are filled with misgivings and misconceptions galore.

Dating TS women and deling with the judgement that came with it has made me a much more tolerent and less jedgemental person.

That has shown me that as weird as i think someone's kink might be, as odd as it seems to me. I just can't really make a judgement on that person because I don't get that person.

I might tend to steer clear of that person and I completely get why a woman might not find that person desireable but to say he is less of a man... that is too muchfor me.

As bad as the world judges us (TS women and those of us admirers) how can we shit on someone else who has another thing that gets them off?

Just seems hypocritical.

[gottchoo]

Really?

Yes, really.

[/quote]"Vicki Richter"]Because I heard her say that she has a client (meaning she is getting paid to hang out with him) who cross dresses and claims his wife endorses the behavior. However, the wife conveniently doesn't participate.[/quote]

I heard [read] a non judgemental post which stuck out in my mind [her fist one]. I guess I should have noted a few others from the first few pages that seemed to share the same sentiments of "whatever gets one off" such as Desu, tabathasiren, ARMANIXXX, wombat33, etc (sorry im too lazy to go back and read through all the replies atm to see who else wasnt throwing labels at this guy).


Nadia is an escort. She is paid by men to indulge their fantasies. Of course she is going to take that approach.

That's a pretty heavy assumption to make. Why would she bother to post in a thread where she didnt actually feel the way she conveyed in her posts? She could have just as well passed this thread and it would have had no bearing on her clientelle whatsoever.....so obviously, aside from her escort status, she may actually feel this way about bedroom behavior.

[gottchoo]

This is pretty simple for me-

Ona personal level, I like a very masculine man. A man that looks, dresses, acts , and has the mannerisms of a man. I like to be treated as a woman. I like a man that opens doors for me, etc., and can take care of me, etc.

In the bedroom, I am very open minded and both sub and domme. I also like a guy who is a switch. I am very, very open minded. Though I am not into cross dressng my man at all, I would say pretty much antyhing should be able to go with a couple as long as one is honest with the other. I don't hold judgements towards what turns others on.

I think the problem a lot of people encounter is that they end up with a sex partner that they are ultimately not compatible with. People are so obssesed with telling others what the other person wants to hear, as opposed to the truth that it ultimately backfires. I can say this from first hand experience. I've found out something from a partner in the past and ended the relationship not because of what it was, but because they were not honest about it. As I mentioned, I am pretty much open to anything, except lies.

I don't think what you do in the bedroom has any bearing to who you are as a person. There are very powerful men in this word wearing panties under their Armani suits.

Beautifully put.

[mrironknee]

My wife always talks about me dressing or her using a strap-on with me. We in fact did the strap-on thing once in Paris. I really have no interest in either, especially the dressing, although I have occasionally been the bottom for a TS, but it seems different because that is their natural equipment and they are getting pleasure from the act. I believe she is turned on by the domination aspect of doing that to me, who is by nature a very masculine and dominant person. I do however believe that if I did allow her to dress me and dominate it would not be as much of a turn on for her. I think once she saw me in that other way, as a "sissy", she would not feel the same. Sometimes a fantasy is not quite the same as reality. I want to keep my male status.
Just one man's opinion.

[otherguy]

There is nothing wrong with it. Plenty of women love it as a game. The most powerful men are into it. None of the submissives I have met act that way all the time. Its a fun forbiden game.

A dominatrix (non-sex only) I knew claimed that many of her clients were powerful men (judges, corporate types, etc.) who found release in having someone else in control for a while.

[NadiaUSA]

We are talking so much about women accepting sissy behavior. What about the fun of the shame factor. What if it is better that you don't get the majority stamp of approval on playing a fetish game. I could swear that even some of the regular non sissy guys like the sneaky factor of being with a shemale. And thats not even counting the humliation lovers.

[Kriss]

What about the fun of the shame factor. the sneaky factor of being with a shemale.

Yeah, this has occured to me. When I started being more blatant about liking TS women, I wondered "will it still be as exiting to be with a TS?". I guess before, some of the thrill of TS girls may have been 'enhanced' by the shame factor, especially as many of my former associates wouldn't be too impressed, is that rebellion?. It's hard to say for sure but certainly attraction to TS women is the same when any 'shame' factor is removed. I'm totally open about it these days and sex with TS girls is just as good without any feeling of sneaking around. I know some people do like to sneak, a lot of affairs happen just because the 'forbidden' sex is more exiting.

[NadiaUSA]

We are talking so much about women accepting sissy behavior. What about the fun of the shame factor. What if it is better that you don't get the majority stamp of approval on playing a fetish game. I could swear that even some of the regular non sissy guys like the sneaky factor of being with a shemale. And thats not even counting the humliation lovers.Definitely true. Many of these guys seek thrills in their otherwise uneventful lives.

I would't put a derogitory spin on the guys for seeking a thrill. Sure I wouln't want someone that is ashamed of being with me las a long term companion but as far as enjoying the shame factor in a simpler fetish is thrill to be enjoyed by those with uneventful and eventful lives.

[mikey_stl]

I highly doubt his wife is OK with it. She tolerates it because they no longer fuck and she doesn't want to divorce because of the kids or humiliate her entire family either. It still isn't fair to her. Why do people stay married even when they are so obviously miserable? Your friends marriage sounds like a farce. It's like, "sure leave me home with the kids, you go out with your tranny and have her make you into a cross dresser and suck cock in the parking lot. Just brush your teeth before you come to bed sweety. Don't worry, you're still a man to me."I've heard countless times, that is exactly what goes on at those dumb-ass Tri-Ess meetings. The members are supposedly straight crossdressers, who drag their wives along to give them moral support. But I suspect that they're actually bringing them along to cover up whats really going on in their heads. Its their way of saying to each other, "See? I'm no homo. How could I be a cocksucker if I'm married to this woman?!"

But ya know what? I've heard more than a few stories about them getting caught blowing each other in the women's room and in the parking lot. What a slap in the face that must be to the women they're married to, who went against their better judgment when they agreed to go along with their husbands' little charades. I hear that most of these women just silently sit there, mortified at what they're seeing.

Also, if either TS who are attracted to women or crossdressers who are upfront about being attracted to men show up, they're told in no uncertain terms that they're not wanted at these lame little denial festivals.

But if you wanna see some scary people, take a look at these delusional basketcases.

http://www.tri-ess.org/SSS_boardlist.html

Well, that's an interesting point-of-view. I've never been to one of those meetings, but have always wondered what they're like.

I personally think that crossdressing men tend to look ridiculous, and I don't understand the fetish at all. If you want to be a woman, be a woman; if you want to be a man, be a man. Make up your mind. Now, maybe some of these men are in the beginning of transitioning, and that's understandable. But for a lot of them dressing up in girl's clothes is just a hobby.

[SarahG]

I personally think that crossdressing men tend to look ridiculous, and I don't understand the fetish at all. If you want to be a woman, be a woman; if you want to be a man, be a man. Make up your mind. Now, maybe some of these men are in the beginning of transitioning, and that's understandable. But for a lot of them dressing up in girl's clothes is just a hobby.

CD/TV is really nothing like ts... the problem I have with your "in the beginning of transitioning" sentence is that GID is an identity disorder while CD/TV is a sexual fetish... totally different 'conditions' if you will. I don't think I've ever heard of someone who is ts starting off by cding as a sexual turn on/fetish... and frankly, find that argument as disgusting and baseless as AG theory. This is not to say that some TS people didn't find out what TS was by trying CD and realizing 1- its not doing anything sexual for them and 2- maybe exposing them to enough TG stuff to realize what TS is (and subsequently, that they are ts themselves).

[mikey_stl]

I personally think that crossdressing men tend to look ridiculous, and I don't understand the fetish at all. If you want to be a woman, be a woman; if you want to be a man, be a man. Make up your mind. Now, maybe some of these men are in the beginning of transitioning, and that's understandable. But for a lot of them dressing up in girl's clothes is just a hobby.

CD/TV is really nothing like ts... the problem I have with your "in the beginning of transitioning" sentence is that GID is an identity disorder while CD/TV is a sexual fetish... totally different 'conditions' if you will. I don't think I've ever heard of someone who is ts starting off by cding as a sexual turn on/fetish... and frankly, find that argument as disgusting and baseless as AG theory. This is not to say that some TS people didn't find out what TS was by trying CD and realizing 1- its not doing anything sexual for them and 2- maybe exposing them to enough TG stuff to realize what TS is (and subsequently, that they are ts themselves).

I agree with you completely. That's what I was attempting to say, but evidently it was poorly communicated.

[mikey_stl]

Well, that's an interesting point-of-view. I've never been to one of those meetings, but have always wondered what they're like.

I personally think that crossdressing men tend to look ridiculous, and I don't understand the fetish at all. If you want to be a woman, be a woman; if you want to be a man, be a man. Make up your mind. Now, maybe some of these men are in the beginning of transitioning, and that's understandable. But for a lot of them dressing up in girl's clothes is just a hobby.I think you've missed my point. I couldn't give a rat's ass if someone wanted to dress up like Donald Duck and fuck a jar of peanut butter. I'm talking about denial, and dragging other people through retarded charades; not to mention, getting all sanctimonious and anal retentive about it as a way of legitimizing it all. I mean, what the fuck do you need a "charter" for, if you're a crossdresser?

Thanks for clarifying your point of view. However, I still think that men who crossdress look ridiculous. What transexuals generally attempt to look as feminine as possible, most men who crossdress just look like men wearing dresses. I'm not judging them or saying they should be prohibited from doing it, or anything like that. I'm just saying that it grosses me out, and I don't understand it.

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[Kriss]

I still think that men who crossdress look ridiculous.... I'm just saying that it grosses me out, and I don't understand it... Well, I guess this establishes once and for all what a kinda guy you really are. You? You're all man. Heck, you're no homo; not you. You simply don't get this crossdressing stuff. In fact, it just grosses you out. We now know this, and have no reservations about how you see it. It's clear. Crystal clear. It's not for you.... Nope... Not you... No, sir... No crossdressing... Makes no sense... Gross, is what it is to you... :sleep

:lol: :lol: :lol: :claps :claps :claps Thats pretty funny. Give us hell Arianna...

[Kriss]

I personally think that crossdressing men tend to look ridiculous, and I don't understand the fetish at all. If you want to be a woman, be a woman; if you want to be a man, be a man. Make up your mind. Now, maybe some of these men are in the beginning of transitioning, and that's understandable. But for a lot of them dressing up in girl's clothes is just a hobby.

CD/TV is really nothing like ts... the problem I have with your "in the beginning of transitioning" sentence is that GID is an identity disorder while CD/TV is a sexual fetish... totally different 'conditions' if you will. I don't think I've ever heard of someone who is ts starting off by cding as a sexual turn on/fetish... and frankly, find that argument as disgusting

Got to agree with SarahG. Surely men crossdress because it gives them a Hard-on, TS women are just wearing what feels comfortable/right. If it turns you on to wear womens clothes, that is not 'transitioning', it's purely a sexual 'buzz'. I can't imagine that TS women get off on their wardrobe the way a transvestite would. I may be wrong but most TV's seem to be into women and TS and not men. I may be wrong but most TS seem to be into men and only men, the less 'gay' the better. To me the two worlds are entirely separate. The guys I know that dig TV's and drag queens bizarrely tend to not be so impressed by the very feminine TS women that I like. I guess they have a different idea of what is beautiful. It's all good I suppose, as long as no-one gets hurt or has to live a big fat lie that will just come back and bite them in the ass. I did have one "genetic" girlfriend (of 3 years) that was kinda kinky. She liked to try to get me into her bra and knickers! And she is a photographer so I know she has those pics in her files. '8)' Actually I suspect that she was/is a repressed lesbian!!??!!??, (never liked me with even the slightest trace of stubble). We probably date the same TS girls now without knowing it! :lol: It's o.k. to occaisionally play sex games with a partner, this particular ex sometimes dressed like a slut for me(not at all her usual style) so why not return the favour? Would I do it for Vicki Richter? Well she would have to ask VERY nicely. :wink: One TS freind of mine is constantly trying to get me into her clothes :? and take me out in London as a girl. I try to explain that I would look Really SHIT as a girl and also I don't like men, don't enjoy the sexual attention of men, gay, TV, whatever, All men can fuck off, I am not 'into' them and I certaily don't want them to be 'into' me. I think my freind has me down as some kind of repressed TS??? She will ask me if a guy "is hot". I say I don't know, he's a guy, no guys are 'hot', they are just like different shaped potatoes, unique but really they are all just as boring and dull as the next, and they smell. bad. She don't seem to get it. Probably more tests of my 'straightness' :shrug

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment:

99.9% of STRAIGHT men HAVE tried dressing in women's underwear at least once
99.9% of GAY men have NEVER got a sexual thrill from wearing women's underwear
DISCUSS........................................

[mikey_stl]

I still think that men who crossdress look ridiculous.... I'm just saying that it grosses me out, and I don't understand it... Well, I guess this establishes once and for all what a kinda guy you really are. You? You're all man. Heck, you're no homo; not you. You simply don't get this crossdressing stuff. In fact, it just grosses you out. We now know this, and have no reservations about how you see it. It's clear. Crystal clear. It's not for you.... Nope... Not you... No, sir... No crossdressing... Makes no sense... Gross, is what it is to you... :sleep

I wasn't trying to establish anything. I was just giving my honest response to Vicky's thread. If I don't understand crossdressing, I don't understand it. If someone wants to enlighten me, then I would be happy to listen. If I'm grossed out by a man in a dress, I'm grossed out. I don't really have any control over what grosses me out. I'm attracted to women who are feminine, whether those women are GG or TG. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

By the way, I think you have a cute butt.

[mikey_stl]

I personally think that crossdressing men tend to look ridiculous, and I don't understand the fetish at all. If you want to be a woman, be a woman; if you want to be a man, be a man. Make up your mind. Now, maybe some of these men are in the beginning of transitioning, and that's understandable. But for a lot of them dressing up in girl's clothes is just a hobby.

CD/TV is really nothing like ts... the problem I have with your "in the beginning of transitioning" sentence is that GID is an identity disorder while CD/TV is a sexual fetish... totally different 'conditions' if you will. I don't think I've ever heard of someone who is ts starting off by cding as a sexual turn on/fetish... and frankly, find that argument as disgusting

Got to agree with SarahG. Surely men crossdress because it gives them a Hard-on, TS women are just wearing what feels comfortable/right. If it turns you on to wear womens clothes, that is not 'transitioning', it's purely a sexual 'buzz'. I can't imagine that TS women get off on their wardrobe the way a transvestite would. I may be wrong but most TV's seem to be into women and TS and not men. I may be wrong but most TS seem to be into men and only men, the less 'gay' the better. To me the two worlds are entirely separate. The guys I know that dig TV's and drag queens bizarrely tend to not be so impressed by the very feminine TS women that I like. I guess they have a different idea of what is beautiful. It's all good I suppose, as long as no-one gets hurt or has to live a big fat lie that will just come back and bite them in the ass. I did have one "genetic" girlfriend (of 3 years) that was kinda kinky. She liked to try to get me into her bra and knickers! And she is a photographer so I know she has those pics in her files. '8)' Actually I suspect that she was/is a repressed lesbian!!??!!??, (never liked me with even the slightest trace of stubble). We probably date the same TS girls now without knowing it! :lol: It's o.k. to occaisionally play sex games with a partner, this particular ex sometimes dressed like a slut for me(not at all her usual style) so why not return the favour? Would I do it for Vicki Richter? Well she would have to ask VERY nicely. :wink: One TS freind of mine is constantly trying to get me into her clothes :? and take me out in London as a girl. I try to explain that I would look Really SHIT as a girl and also I don't like men, don't enjoy the sexual attention of men, gay, TV, whatever, All men can fuck off, I am not 'into' them and I certaily don't want them to be 'into' me. I think my freind has me down as some kind of repressed TS??? She will ask me if a guy "is hot". I say I don't know, he's a guy, no guys are 'hot', they are just like different shaped potatoes, unique but really they are all just as boring and dull as the next, and they smell. bad. She don't seem to get it. Probably more tests of my 'straightness' :shrug

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment:

99.9% of STRAIGHT men HAVE tried dressing in women's underwear at least once
99.9% of GAY men have NEVER got a sexual thrill from wearing women's underwear
DISCUSS........................................

Again, I don't disagree with anything you or SarahG said. However, if you see a man dressed up as a woman, and you don't know the person very well, then you can't say whether or not they're a crossdresser or a TG beginning to transition. I had an acquaintance who I hadn't seen for awhile, and one day I ran into him, and he was wearing women's clothes. I assumed this was a fetish. Some months later I ran into him, and he had what appeared to be "real" breasts. Then I knew he was a TG and not a crossdresser.

As far as your quote about straight men and gay men and women's underwear -- I'm not sure if you've taken a scientific poll on that, but I think it's probably true. Many gay men seem to be into a more macho look, so that would leave out wearing women's panties. There's an all-male, all-nude strip club here called "Boxer's & Briefs." It caters to mostly gay males, although sometimes couples or groups of women also go there to ogle the dancers. Nevertheless, they don't call the club "boxers, briefs, & panties," and I think that calling it that would drive a good portion of their clientele.

[smoothwetkisses]

Personaly I love wearing women's panties. Do I think they look hot? Hell no they look rediculous. Would I would wear them meeting a lovely lady hell no again. Women's panties are made with the most sensual feeling materials that most men's underwear don't use.The feel great against my cock. So I guess I'm a sissy. Tough Shit.

[Vicki Richter]

Personaly I love wearing women's panties. Do I think they look hot? Hell no they look rediculous. Would I would wear them meeting a lovely lady hell no again. Women's panties are made with the most sensual feeling materials that most men's underwear don't use.The feel great against my cock. So I guess I'm a sissy. Tough Shit.

Haha! Sissy! :P

[Jamie Michelle]

You're a sissy, too, Vicki. The definition of a sissy is a genetic male who is feminine in some way.

Didn't you ever get teased for being a sissy when you were younger? Or did you just magically transform into your tranny self? No, James. Vicki is not a sissy. She is a transgendered woman, or a M2F pre-op transsexual. TS often suffer extreme gender dysphoria before transitioning, regardless of how the world perceives them.

The word "sissy" generally implies a male behaving like a young female. Its also a term used to describe a popular activity in B&D role-playing. Mistresses often force slaves to become sissies. Its a process often referred to as forced feminization or sissification. Beyond that, its used to describe CD's who, by definition, are part-timers. So, actually, you're a sissy, James.

Any genetic male displaying obvious feminine traits is by definition a sissy, you and Vicki included. You can attempt to redefine existence, but that doesn't make it so.

The childhood taunt of "sissy" would very much apply to you and Vicki if you were outwardly feminine as children. Let me see an example of a young sissy explaining to such troublemakers, "No, you see, you've got it all wrong. I'm not a sissy, I'm a transgendered female!"

Nor am I a "part-timer." I live 24/7 en femme.

[Jamie Michelle]

No, James. Vicki is not a sissy. She is a transgendered woman, or a M2F pre-op transsexual. TS often suffer extreme gender dysphoria before transitioning, regardless of how the world perceives them.
.

Jamie is a kook on here with crackpot ideas about almost everything. We just humor Jamie. Jamie - why don't you share with us about some of the interesting work you have written "Why Satan is in my kitchen", "The dogs that look like gerbils conspiracy", and "How transsexuals are secretly corrupting America."

Well, Vicki, your above comments are factually untrue, as I have written no such works. Based upon this response by you, apparently you have no logically valid criticism you can make of me, so you have to invent fallacious responses such as your above reply. If I were actually in error, then the sane response would be to point out what errors I have made. That is what I do when I see people saying untrue things, as, e.g., you here are.

[atkms7]

come on guys, get real, what a guy does in his private life does not make him less of a man at all, in fact, if i were president, i would require every person to have at least one wierd fetish to make an end on sexual opression...I'd end the war on drugs...and being a new war against public enemy number 1...sexual opression...vote for me America...2008....

[Legend]

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment:

99.9% of STRAIGHT men HAVE tried dressing in women's underwear at least once
99.9% of GAY men have NEVER got a sexual thrill from wearing women's underwear
DISCUSS........................................

Where did you get those numbers from?

[Jamie Michelle]

come on guys, get real, what a guy does in his private life does not make him less of a man at all, in fact, if i were president, i would require every person to have at least one wierd fetish to make an end on sexual opression...I'd end the war on drugs...and being a new war against public enemy number 1...sexual opression...vote for me America...2008....

Excepting the fetish policy, if you stuck to your above platform then you'd make by far the best president the U.S. has ever had. Although you'd also likely be assassinated in short time.

[Kriss]

Where did you get those numbers from?

I just made it up off the top off my head without thinking. Isn't that what everyone on this board is doing? Why? have you seen those numbers written anywhere else? If not thay are all my own work, gleaned from minutes of extensive research.
maybe i should change "devil's advocate" to "Bare Faced Liar" ?

[LadyArielTv]

Vicki, I would like to know. Did he refer to himself as a sissy or is that your way of defining him??
I will admit I have not read the entire thread (all 12 pages) but there seems to be a common thing. That Cd's and Tv's are sissies. I for one am a Dom in the bedroom and a Tv, I try to dress as well as I can. As to passablilty, please any guy can pass. look at the "normal" woman on the street. GG women can be very masculine to very Fem like you Vicki. Also My wife not only knows I dress but loves it and has known from the beginning. Many times she has encouraged it.

Lady Ariel Tv

[Kriss]

I will admit I have not read the entire thread (all 12 pages)

First mistake right there. You gotta read it all before commentiing as someone has likely made exactly the same point as you , 5 PAGES IN.......
(of course i don't actually know what 'your point' is as i couldnt be bothered to read your entire post. I just reacted to this one line.

[tsmandy]

Some people do what they want and some people do what others think they should want.

Disclaimer: I don't really give a shit about anybodies marriage (at least as long as I'm legally barred from marrying my partner), so my advice/opinions are not aimed at helping men have healthier marriages. And I'm also depraved and nasty, so I get turned on by people who push their own boundaries.

If you like dressing up like a sissy and your wife doesn't like it, then get a divorce. Life is too short to worry about other peoples hangups around gender and sexuality, and there are plenty of women out there that like the idea of boning a crossdresser.

I respect people that are willing to stand up for themselves, even when it means risking relationships and social status.

[Jamie Michelle]

Some people do what they want and some people do what others think they should want.

Disclaimer: I don't really give a shit about anybodies marriage (at least as long as I'm legally barred from marrying my partner), so my advice/opinions are not aimed at helping men have healthier marriages. And I'm also depraved and nasty, so I get turned on by people who push their own boundaries.

If you like dressing up like a sissy and your wife doesn't like it, then get a divorce. Life is too short to worry about other peoples hangups around gender and sexuality, and there are plenty of women out there that like the idea of boning a crossdresser.

I respect people that are willing to stand up for themselves, even when it means risking relationships and social status.

The law doesn't bar you from getting married. You can marry whoever you want to marry and who in turn wants to marry you. If you have a same-gender marriage then it will have no legal status, but the law doesn't prohibit you from getting such a marriage.

That's the way all marriages ought to be, as the state has no business butting its nose into people's marriages. Such is how all marriages used to be, as marriage has been around a lot longer than governments. Traditionally marriage was a family or tribal ceremony with no connection to government. Governments eventually stuck their noses into people's marriages for the same reason governments enforce a state monopoly on letter delivery, i.e., in order to surveil and keep tabs on the personal affairs of their subjects.

[mikey_stl]

I still think that men who crossdress look ridiculous.... I'm just saying that it grosses me out, and I don't understand it... Well, I guess this establishes once and for all what a kinda guy you really are. You? You're all man. Heck, you're no homo; not you. You simply don't get this crossdressing stuff. In fact, it just grosses you out. We now know this, and have no reservations about how you see it. It's clear. Crystal clear. It's not for you.... Nope... Not you... No, sir... No crossdressing... Makes no sense... Gross, is what it is to you... :sleep

I wasn't trying to establish anything. I was just giving my honest response to Vicky's thread. If I don't understand crossdressing, I don't understand it. If someone wants to enlighten me, then I would be happy to listen. If I'm grossed out by a man in a dress, I'm grossed out. I don't really have any control over what grosses me out. I'm attracted to women who are feminine, whether those women are GG or TG. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

By the way, I think you have a cute butt.It doesn't upset me; trust me. But, c'mon. Do you label everyone you don't want to fuck as "gross"? If so, do me a favor. Go to www.rotten.com , look at a bunch of those pics, and then tell me how "gross" you really find those p/t crossdressers to be. Because, honestly, I can walk into any 7-11 right now, and spot plenty of GG's who I find to be as distasteful in appearance as those Tri-Ess guys. In fact, they're all over the damn place; big, nasty-looking barnyard livestock mama's. However, I found no reason to discuss that in this thread until now, to make a point. Do you see see what I'm getting at? I think they can do as they please, and I don't necessarily feel compelled to criticize them. However, they're extremely hypocritical, and in deep denial to boot. And, sadly, their wifes get assigned the duty of enabling this nonsense.

Btw, thank you for the compliment.

I agree with everything you say here.

Mike

[mikey_stl]

No, James. Vicki is not a sissy. She is a transgendered woman, or a M2F pre-op transsexual. TS often suffer extreme gender dysphoria before transitioning, regardless of how the world perceives them.
.

Jamie is a kook on here with crackpot ideas about almost everything. We just humor Jamie. Jamie - why don't you share with us about some of the interesting work you have written "Why Satan is in my kitchen", "The dogs that look like gerbils conspiracy", and "How transsexuals are secretly corrupting America."

Well, Vicki, your above comments are factually untrue, as I have written no such works. Based upon this response by you, apparently you have no logically valid criticism you can make of me, so you have to invent fallacious responses such as your above reply. If I were actually in error, then the sane response would be to point out what errors I have made. That is what I do when I see people saying untrue things, as, e.g., you here are.

I think you're great Jamie -- and I love the stuff you write.

Let me say that it's a shame that some TGs take on the bubble-headed, air-headed persona that a lot of GGs unfortunately exhibit. By the way, that doesn't go for 99% of the girls on HA. That's one reason I like HA so much -- not only are many of you hot and beautiful, but you're also intelligent.

[Eklipse]

desu: I dated another girl who was into overly masculine men and I dressed up like a skinhead for her.
lol hahaha

[Kriss]

desu: I dated another girl who was into overly masculine men and I dressed up like a skinhead for her. lol hahaha

Did you say "overly masculine"? Are you sure you don't mean "thick as shit", "possibly racist" and VERY, VERY GAY. Where does your girl get her idea of what is masculine, the roman empire? Lets be honest here, Gay men are overly, overly , OVERLY "masculine" with thier Gym/muscle obsession, mustaches, love of boxing, propensity to wear cowbot hats outside the state of texas.
NEWSFLASH------ A 'skinhead' or EVEN short hair on a man is GAY. The most masculine 'look' a man can possibly have is Long hair, natural, wild, animal, not preened and polished and plucked like a 10 year old roman slave boy, ready for julias ceaser's ******. I had militantly long hair for many years,(shortER now to disguise my receding hairline, theres NO WAY i'm taking the cowards option and shiving it to pretend i am not thinning like every other fucker in england. wankers.) and heard so many dumb comments about how it looks 'girly' (we are talking LONG and BLOND like axl rose or something). I always asked "why would you shave your head unless you are a prisoner, a soldier or a slave?" (black guys HATE this as the white man visciously shaved the locks of thier captive ancestors).
to recap---------shorthair on men is GAY, Shorthair on women is just repulsive. Why? b4ecause deep in our brains, we are programmed to look upon a prospective re-productive partner's hair as an indicator of thier physical health. People with short, very damaged or no hair look unwell, diseased, dying. certainly not somone you want to combine DNA with.

AND JUST DON'T START ME ON BEARDS(which are not gay by the way, unless it's a 'goatee' or overly elaborate, pointy 'lambchops')...............

[TJT]

desu: I dated another girl who was into overly masculine men and I dressed up like a skinhead for her. lol hahaha

Did you say "overly masculine"? Are you sure you don't mean "thick as shit", "possibly racist" and VERY, VERY GAY. Where does your girl get her idea of what is masculine, the roman empire? Lets be honest here, Gay men are overly, overly , OVERLY "masculine" with thier Gym/muscleobsession, mustaches, love of boxing, propensity to wear cowbot hats outside the state of texas.
NEWSFLASH------ A 'skinhead' or EVEN short hair on a man is GAY. The most masculine 'look' a man can possibly have is Long hair, natural, wild, animal, not preened and polished and plucked like a 10 year old roman slave boy, ready for julias ceaser's ******. I had militantly long hair for many years,(shortER now to disguise my receding hairline, theres NO WAY i'm taking the cowards option and shiving it to pretend i am not thinning like every other fucker in england. wankers.) and heard so many dumb comments about how it looks 'girly' (we are talking LONG and BLOND like axl rose or something). I always asked "why would you shave your head unless you are a prisoner, a soldier or a slave?" (black guys HATE this as the white man visciously shaved the locks of thier captive ancestors).
to recap---------shorthair on men is GAY, Shorthair on women is just repulsive. Why? b4ecause deep in our brains, we are programmed to look upon a prospective re-productive partner's hair as an indicator of thier physical health. People with short, very damaged or no hair look unwell, diseased, dying. certainly not somone you want to combine DNA with.

AND JUST DON'T START ME ON BEARDS(which are not gay by the way, unless it's a 'goatee' or overly elaborate, pointy 'lambchops')...............


Kriss,Kriss,Kriss.......... get a grip.

I've had long hair,literally to my waist,I've had short hair,Hell I just shaved my head yesterday in preparation for a camping trip this weekend? (Tics carry all sorts of nasty diseases in this part of the USA,better safe than sorry.)

A) Short hair is easier to deal with,which is the reason most men keep it that way.

B) From a practical standpoint long hair is a huge disadvantage in a fight. If I've got a fistful of your hair,I own you ass. I can stop your head from moving so I can punch you better,I can drag you down so I can kick,stab, club you,I can use it for torque to snap your neck,I can drag you to a spot do all those things better and have my friends join in? Why do you think most military organizations require extremely short hair for their soldiers? It's not for "Fun in The Shower Friday Nights"? It can save your life. (Long facial hair presents the same problem.)

Now,if a man shaves his body hair,it's proof positive he's gay. It ain't right.

Regular bathing is another sign,but that can vary by circumstances. More than once every few months is a sure warning sign.

[Kriss]

A) Short hair is easier to deal with,which is the reason most men keep it that way

:smh The reason MOST men keep it that way is FASHION DICTATED BY SOCIETY. Just as at one time men wore ridiculous curly moustaches. go to pakistan or iraq and almost EVERY man has a moustache. WHY? cultural norms, fashion. Go to Afghanistan and they will think you mad to shave your beard "to look like a boy?". This western culture that we live in(under) dictates that men be shaven and shorn, why would gilette, etc spend a lot of cash on advertising if not to re-inforce that image? These same prejudices and pressure from society to conform are what causes many TS women to have an unrealistic, fragile self image.

and what the fuck has fighting got to do with it? If we were genetically predisposed to fight all day long , we would have adapted over generations so that our hair did not grow on our head as it has receded across most body regions compared to that of our ancestors. WE HAVE EVOLVED. Part of that EVOLUTION and a big catalyst in our development over chimps is that we use TOOLS. When primitave man discovered and utilised tools for hunting(basically, weapons), we ate everything that moved, thus drastically and in evolutionary terms, rapidly enlarging our brain size, thus ensuring dominance over other primate sub-species. so , quite simply , hair doesn't come into it, in a fight I would simply do what modern man does, utilise TOOLS. I would simply cut your throat with a blade, re-arrange your face with a hammer or shoot you dead with a gun, or better still, pay someone else to do it, now thats EVOLUTION. Survival of the fittest.

Sorry , but I AM RIGHT here.

[TJT]

Yer a testy lil' feller. Fighting is what young men do. It's how you establish the pecking order. Starts about the age of 6 and goes until 60 or so. If you're not willing to fight you get your stuff taken.

Why do you think you Brits are still supporting Big Ears Chucky Windsor and his inbred sons? Somewhere back aways his ancestors kicked the crap out yours,took their stuff and put the fear of God in them. You're still stuck with the parasites. Hang 'em from the lamposts and take your stuff back.

I bet you bathe and shave your body hair?

[Kriss]

You're still stuck with the parasites. Hang 'em from the lamposts and take your stuff back.

AMEN to that my friend :rock2


I bet you bathe and shave your body hair?

BUSTED! but only round the 'fudge tunnel'


. Fighting is what young men do. It's how you establish the pecking order. Starts about the age of 6 and goes until 60 or so.

I put it to you , good sir, that fighting is what men do when they crave physical intimacy with another man but dare not call it by it's real name (foreplay).

Boxing for example is absolutely the gayest thing on the planet, Boxing is the pinnacle of homosexuality. The opulant silk costumes, All those sweaty gyms, packed with naive underage boys, performing for the entertainment of their 'trainers' :smh (rows of old men, furiously masturbating under thier raincoats)

[62des]

Well doesn't this make "being bottomed by a trassexual doesn't make me less of a man" so untrue? I think so. I mean 'technically' it doesn't but you try telling your friends or others that you take cock up the ass and see if their opinions about you stay the same.

[Vicki Richter]

Wow this became a crazy thread. Great debate.