How do you feel about?

[MrsKellyPierce]

Gays and Lesbians? I noticed while I was doing work with the LGBT and going to Westcare meetings to talk to other transexuals about their problems and aid for help. That a lot of transexual sisters were totally against gays and even seemed like they hated them. Calling them "fags" and "gross" but inturn of course the gay community will call us "freaks" and "gross" also.

I have also noticed in the "gay & lesbian" world if you aren't hmm I'll say body beautiful you also get poked fun at or not very well supported from the community. Which may be one of the reasons, or some transexuals are repressing out of not wanting to be labled as a gay/lesbian person. What are your thoughts on this? I'd love to hear them.

My own experience..I was honestly surprised to hear this cause I've always had a lot of Lesbian and gay friends and always been accepted. But when I was living down in Florida I could see the battlelines between the transgenders and the lesbian and gays. It was just a shock to me. I had one transexual act out against me in a Westcare Meeting when I said we all need one voice and unite as a team for our rights. She really didn't like that at all. By the way I still believe that...we need team work. St. Pete PRIDE had a very diverse board....A post op as the female co-chair, a pre-op transexual as their secretary (me) A african-American Co-chair which doesn't happen quite often and I could go on in the diversity. I don't know where the battle lines were drawn? I would just like some insight maybe of people that are older and wiser that were around when maybe these battle lines started.


Forgot the men's perspective..I've also noticed from guys I've dated in the past they will make fun of gays (not lesbians of course unless they are butch :lol: ) and transexuals who they think aren't up to par. They will also make fun of drag queens and so on. I am sure this is repression on their part, but there could be more to it also. Guys why do feel some of your fellow men feel this way? If you do feel this way please explain?

[MrsKellyPierce]

I know it's a long read, however I think we can get good views from both spectrums. Maybe understand more also.

[tsfarrah]

I know it's a long read, however I think we can get good views from both spectrums. Maybe understand more also.hi Kelly

I agree with you,I have lots of gay friends who are fine with transsexuals and vise versa

however even in London there is an unspoken divide between the gay & transsexual communities

[suckseed]

I'll say this - knowing we are hardly friends. Your posts have shown a lot more insight lately. I think you've been keeping your intelligence on the back shelf, and it's nice to see a more serious side of you. Really.

I've read here and elsewhere that transexuals aren't into men who see them as 'boys with boobs'. Or a man that would go with a crossdresser. They said they've put a lot of work into becoming what they were meant to be, and a crossdresser sort of makes a mockery of all that. Plus there's always the competitive aspect. Why would a lesbian be hostile to a man simply because he's a man? Not all are, of course, but I've definitely gotten a vibe from some lesbians. My roommate is one, and we're pretty close, but she's a sweetie, and we know each other. But at least one TS who posts here lost her boyfriend to a man. I was amazed to read that at the time -- but then again I don't see TS admirers as gay, though I must admit that's gray area for many.
Another thing: many flamboyantly gay men act more girly than girls are. Many people find that irritating. TS included.

[MrsKellyPierce]

I know it's a long read, however I think we can get good views from both spectrums. Maybe understand more also.hi Kelly

I agree with you,I have lots of gay friends who are fine with transsexuals and vise versa

however even in London there is an unspoken divide between the gay & transsexual communities See yeah but girl you are beautiful :P I noticed the girls that aren't so are the ones that are most bitter acting towards the gay community.

[peggygee]

I feel that it is a generalization to say that gays or lesbians are our
allies simply by virtue of them being a repressed minority.

Just as there are heterosexual people that do or don't empathize with
our plight, there are gays and lesbians that also don't have our best
interests at heart.

As we have discussed, for gays and lesbians it is more a sexualty issue,
who do they want to partner with, who do they want to go to bed with,
who would they like to marry.

With the transgendered population it is more about being in the wrong
gender at birth and then the part of who they would like to
partner with may rear it's head.

To the larger society, they may lump us all 'in one large fruit bowl', but
when discussing GLBT you really aren't talking about apples and oranges,
but rather, fruits and vegetables, if you will pardon my metaphor.

[MrsKellyPierce]

I'll say this - knowing we are hardly friends. Your posts have shown a lot more insight lately. I think you've been keeping your intelligence on the back shelf, and it's nice to see a more serious side of you. Really.

I've read here and elsewhere that transexuals aren't into men who see them as 'boys with boobs'. Or a man that would go with a crossdresser. They said they've put a lot of work into becoming what they were meant to be, and a crossdresser sort of makes a mockery of all that. Plus there's always the competitive aspect. Why would a lesbian be hostile to a man simply because he's a man? Not all are, of course, but I've definitely gotten a vibe from some lesbians. My roommate is one, and we're pretty close, but she's a sweetie, and we know each other. But at least one TS who posts here lost her boyfriend to a man. I was amazed to read that at the time -- but then again I don't see TS admirers as gay, though I must admit that's gray area for many.
Another thing: many flamboyantly gay men act more girly than girls are. Many people find that irritating. TS included. ha ha suckseed I have intelligence, but I prefer to be sarcastic and act like a bimbo.

Yeah I totally understand the perspective not wanting to be viewed as a "man with tits" and the uncomfortable feeling towards 'crossdressers' I can admit I have some of those same prejudices. Transvestites freak me out more due to their fetish of lingerie. I just can't fathom getting a hard on from lingerie or womans clothing. I have also seen the female mask thing done from them which I find very strange. However I don't go out of my way to judge them or be rude to them. To each their own.

That happens sometimes, some men use transexuals as a stepping ground towards being with men. Which ultimately sucks for the girl in the relationship. I have never had that experience, so I can't say how it feels. I have had the feeling of being left for a woman, which hurt a lot. So I am guessing it feels about the same?


I find the flamboyant gay men funny, but in doses. I have a friend though who acts straight as can be outside the club, but once he gets in the club he is pure diva. I never understood that? I guess to scream he is gay. But he is so pretty that I think most of them can guess with out the facade of the voice and being overly flamboyant.

[tsfarrah]

[/quote] See yeah but girl you are beautiful :P I noticed the girls that aren't so are the ones that are most bitter acting towards the gay community.[/quote]

thank you for your compliments hunni

this is a tuff one,I've found that (me personally) its Drag Queens that have a problem with ts girls

(not all Drag Queens)

I think some gay guys just think that being TS is a waste of energy
and that TS girls should just accept that they are gay
I've heard it said before

[MrsKellyPierce]

I feel that it is a generalization to say that gays or lesbians are our
allies simply by virtue of them being a repressed minority.

Just as there are heterosexual people that do or don't empathize with
our plight, there are gays and lesbians that also don't have our best
interests at heart.

As we have discussed, for gays and lesbians it is more a sexualty issue,
who do they want to partner with, who do they want to go to bed with,
who would they like to marry.

With the transgendered population it is more about being in the wrong
gender at birth and then the part of who they would like to
partner with may rear it's head.

To the larger society, they may lump us all 'in one large fruit bowl', but
when discussing GLBT you really aren't talking about apples and oranges,
but rather, fruits and vegetables, if you will pardon my metaphor. I get where you are coming from Peggy, however if I am imagining it forgive me, but from reading your post I gather a slight undertone of disdain towards them.

I see it as we are one, due to the fact many do not understand why we are this way. They see it as purely sexual, but standing with a group, getting our views heard. Educating the gay and lesbian community, as well as the straight community. Helps and benefits us in the end.

Clearly I stated it was from both sides also peggy in my first paragraph. I didn't say it was just from one community that was doing all the hate and disgust towards one another. I was more looking for a reason of why it is, rather than about sexuality or transgenderism being born in the wrong body..no offense.

[MrsKellyPierce]

See yeah but girl you are beautiful :P I noticed the girls that aren't so are the ones that are most bitter acting towards the gay community.[/quote]

thank you for your compliments hunni

this is a tuff one,I've found that (me personally) its Drag Queens that have a problem with ts girls

(not all Drag Queens)

I think some gay guys just think that being TS is a waste of energy
and that TS girls should just accept that they are gay
I've heard it said before[/quote] Oh yes I totally feel you on that. When I did pageants I'd get a lot of jealousy and hate from the drag queens. Saying it's not "real" drag cause I don't have to "paint" like they do. And it's not fair..etc, etc, etc. Oh yeah I've heard that from gay guys many times..one said "If you look good thats one thing, but why waste the energy if you look like a hot mess or a man in drag." I tried explaining to him while he poked fun at this transexual girl on the dance floor, but he wasn't hearing it.

[Lone Wolf]

Do you consider yourself somewhat of a lesbian Kelly? Do you make love to genetic women?

[MrsKellyPierce]

Do you consider yourself somewhat of a lesbian Kelly? Do you make love to genetic women?I would consider myself bisexual in a sense.

[tsfarrah]

See yeah but girl you are beautiful :P I noticed the girls that aren't so are the ones that are most bitter acting towards the gay community.

thank you for your compliments hunni

this is a tuff one,I've found that (me personally) its Drag Queens that have a problem with ts girls

(not all Drag Queens)

I think some gay guys just think that being TS is a waste of energy
and that TS girls should just accept that they are gay
I've heard it said before[/quote] Oh yes I totally feel you on that. When I did pageants I'd get a lot of jealousy and hate from the drag queens. Saying it's not "real" drag cause I don't have to "paint" like they do. And it's not fair..etc, etc, etc. Oh yeah I've heard that from gay guys many times..one said "If you look good thats one thing, but why waste the energy if you look like a hot mess or a man in drag." I tried explaining to him while he poked fun at this transexual girl on the dance floor, but he wasn't hearing it.[/QUOTE]yeah its true

but I know that not all gay ,lesbian ,ts people have issues with each other

all my ts,gay,straight friends all get on great

i suppose it all depends on how tollerent people are of difference

[MrsKellyPierce]

See yeah but girl you are beautiful :P I noticed the girls that aren't so are the ones that are most bitter acting towards the gay community.

thank you for your compliments hunni

this is a tuff one,I've found that (me personally) its Drag Queens that have a problem with ts girls

(not all Drag Queens)

I think some gay guys just think that being TS is a waste of energy
and that TS girls should just accept that they are gay
I've heard it said before Oh yes I totally feel you on that. When I did pageants I'd get a lot of jealousy and hate from the drag queens. Saying it's not "real" drag cause I don't have to "paint" like they do. And it's not fair..etc, etc, etc. Oh yeah I've heard that from gay guys many times..one said "If you look good thats one thing, but why waste the energy if you look like a hot mess or a man in drag." I tried explaining to him while he poked fun at this transexual girl on the dance floor, but he wasn't hearing it.[/QUOTE]yeah its true

but I know that not all gay ,lesbian ,ts people have issues with each other

all my ts,gay,straight friends all get on great

i suppose it all depends on how tollerent people are of difference[/QUOTE]Tolerance is the best word you could describe that many of us need to possess. Instead of acting like life is a schoolyard at recess. (not directed at you)

[tsfarrah]

very true hunni

though i'm sure you'll agree that people find it very difficult to be tolerent all the time x

[MrsKellyPierce]

I definitely agree to that! As I said I still have a lot of m own prejudices. That I try to control and not judge.

[Lone Wolf]

I guess my unanswered question remains do you fuck genetic women? I am sorry to be so crude my lovely one but you fascinate me so much

[MrsKellyPierce]

I guess my unanswered question remains do you fuck genetic women? I am sorry to be so crude my lovely one but you fascinate me so muchThe reason I said in a sense is cause I can't have sex with a GG unless a male partner is present, however I like doing the 'vag' so yes I have done genetic woman just this year..never before that.

[Lone Wolf]

Thank you for being honest and upfront

[MrsKellyPierce]

Thank you for being honest and upfrontNot a problem

[SarahG]

-deleted-

[MrsKellyPierce]

Yeah I totally understand the perspective not wanting to be viewed as a "man with tits" and the uncomfortable feeling towards 'crossdressers' I can admit I have some of those same prejudices. Transvestites freak me out more due to their fetish of lingerie. I just can't fathom getting a hard on from lingerie or womans clothing. I have also seen the female mask thing done from them which I find very strange. However I don't go out of my way to judge them or be rude to them. To each their own.

Reminds me of years ago when I first started letting people know I was trans... only to have all kinds of people, friends, family etc try to hook me up with older (esp wealthy) gay guys in the area. I simply had no interest in that... most of the time they said the same (however a few did say it wouldn't have been an issue for them). I simply can not see myself being in a relationship with someone (male or female) who views me as a guy.

That being said, a girl who escorts that I used to be close friends with (this is some time ago, we lost touch and I dunno if she is still in that field) used to regularly tell me that she tended to get a close to 50/50 sex mix of customers (half were female, half were male roughly) and yet both claimed to be completely straight.

I have never had a true problem or incident with gays in terms of how they precieve, talk to me etc... I have had lesbians hit on me and then get mad when they learned what was between my legs, but otherwise I have not been exposed face to face- with any kind of hostility.

However.. in the realm of online that is certainly not always the case in my own expirences.

Getting back to the orientation thing I eluded to earlier... there are a couple other tgirls I regularly argue with over that issue (as an intellectual discussion, nothing heated)... I have met a suprisingly large amount of tgirls who think that any preop into guys is gay... and any guy into preop girls is also gay. I simply disagree with that notion, unless of course the guy in question is viewing the preop as a "guy with tits".

Now I have noticed a common passionate distaste of tv's from people who are ts- sometimes boardering on flat out hatred. Personally I could care less if someone is a tv... which is not to say I don't understand where those feelings are coming from (note explaing and excusing are two separate things). Most of the bad stereotypes about tg in general seem to stem from some (not saying all) tvs for good or bad. Omg that had to be horrible for you. Not only trying to set you up with gay guys, but also your family trying to hook you up. My mom in the past tried doing that, she'd find some boy she thought would be perfect for me, and I was apalled by her choices! My brother tried doing it with one of his friends that had a crush on me, this crazy party guy that all he did was go to strip clubs and drink or go to frat parties....I was more than unsatisfied that my brother would think his friend would be a good catch for me and the fact he thought we were gonna start dating! Was even more atrocious.

Yeah I understand where you are coming from. The prejudices suck in all accounts.

[SarahG]

Omg that had to be horrible for you. Not only trying to set you up with gay guys, but also your family trying to hook you up. My mom in the past tried doing that, she'd find some boy she thought would be perfect for me, and I was apalled by her choices! My brother tried doing it with one of his friends that had a crush on me, this crazy party guy that all he did was go to strip clubs and drink or go to frat parties....I was more than unsatisfied that my brother would think his friend would be a good catch for me and the fact he thought we were gonna start dating! Was even more atrocious.

Yeah I understand where you are coming from. The prejudices suck in all accounts.

It wasn't so bad, I had a rule against blind dates so its not like I ever had to deal with the bad suggestions or poorly done match making that people would attempt for me.

I just had to keep a sense of humor about the whole thing.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Omg that had to be horrible for you. Not only trying to set you up with gay guys, but also your family trying to hook you up. My mom in the past tried doing that, she'd find some boy she thought would be perfect for me, and I was apalled by her choices! My brother tried doing it with one of his friends that had a crush on me, this crazy party guy that all he did was go to strip clubs and drink or go to frat parties....I was more than unsatisfied that my brother would think his friend would be a good catch for me and the fact he thought we were gonna start dating! Was even more atrocious.

Yeah I understand where you are coming from. The prejudices suck in all accounts.

It wasn't so bad, I had a rule against blind dates so its not like I ever had to deal with the bad suggestions or poorly done match making that people would attempt for me.

I just had to keep a sense of humor about the whole thing. Well thats good -- you had a better experience and took it better than I did lol

[strawberry]

I think gay and lesbian couples are mostly adorable. Most of the couples I've known just seem like they're on the same wavelength and really in love in this kinda amazing way. And the world can always use more love :-)

For a long time, personally, I was insecure around gay guys because I'd always heard stories about them having like amazing transdar and I'd sometimes get a vibe off them like they were politely putting up with my existence and pretending I was human for the sake of form... I worried that they were clocking (and then silently judging) me or maybe that I was being self conscious and they were reflecting back my own standoffishness. Or yeah, I wasn't sure how to handle it.

Eventually, after talking with other girls (cisgirls that is - I don't know anyone F2F whose trans to compare notes with about specific people) I got a new theory that it was just how some gay guys treated most women... like my body insecurities maybe had nothing to do with it and I was just running up against like bits of random gay misogyny.

And then, I'm sorta embarassed to bring this part up because it's not really respectful of gay men's dignity as men but...

But when I started thinking about the thing where they project themselves onto transwomen... assuming we're gay guys who couldn't deal with stuff rather than a distinct group who aren't "the same kind" as gay guys. (Which was weird because when I was 18 I wished I could "just be gay" because it would have been so much cheaper, and less painful, and less stigmatized if I could be happy that way.) Anyway, their projection stuff made me wonder if it was the other way around and it's not that transwomen are gay but that some gays are "people who might maybe have wanted to transition in their childhood but took a different life path".

And that would certainly leave *me* with a lot of issues... maybe the standoffishness was "I'll reject you before you can reject me" pride. So it sort of clicked as a working theory that they prolly wanted to be accepted into the girls club as like honorary members with legitimate girl support emotional needs. Anyway, I started going out of my way to be nicer and ask them about their bfs and basically trying to offer them a bit of fag hag support... and I got my chill back around gay guys :-)

[MrsKellyPierce]

I think gay and lesbian couples are mostly adorable. Most of the couples I've known just seem like they're on the same wavelength and really in love in this kinda amazing way. And the world can always use more love :-)

For a long time, personally, I was insecure around gay guys because I'd always heard stories about them having like amazing transdar and I'd sometimes get a vibe off them like they were politely putting up with my existence and pretending I was human for the sake of form... I worried that they were clocking (and then silently judging) me or maybe that I was being self conscious and they were reflecting back my own standoffishness. Or yeah, I wasn't sure how to handle it.

Eventually, after talking with other girls (cisgirls that is - I don't know anyone F2F whose trans to compare notes with about specific people) I got a new theory that it was just how some gay guys treated most women... like my body insecurities maybe had nothing to do with it and I was just running up against like bits of random gay misogyny.

And then, I'm sorta embarassed to bring this part up because it's not really respectful of gay men's dignity as men but...

But when I started thinking about the thing where they project themselves onto transwomen... assuming we're gay guys who couldn't deal with stuff rather than a distinct group who aren't "the same kind" as gay guys. (Which was weird because when I was 18 I wished I could "just be gay" because it would have been so much cheaper, and less painful, and less stigmatized if I could be happy that way.) Anyway, their projection stuff made me wonder if it was the other way around and it's not that transwomen are gay but that some gays are "people who might maybe have wanted to transition in their childhood but took a different life path".

And that would certainly leave *me* with a lot of issues... maybe the standoffishness was "I'll reject you before you can reject me" pride. So it sort of clicked as a working theory that they prolly wanted to be accepted into the girls club as like honorary members with legitimate girl support emotional needs. Anyway, I started going out of my way to be nicer and ask them about their bfs and basically trying to offer them a bit of fag hag support... and I got my chill back around gay guys :-) Strawberry that was awesome...very insightful and theory. And yeah I have a group of gay bois too and they call me their fag hag. And I'm like oh yeah thanks lol aren't fag hags fat? And they are like no they can be glamorous too. They make me feel loved, and I love being their Barbie. I never saw the issure or the battle.

[LTR_Seeker]

I been long time vet in ts groups forums chat rooms there is & always will be tensions between gay & les vs Ts in my opinion

[BlackAdder]

Ive heard it said...and im going from memory now that;

"The transsexual agenda just confuses the gay and lesbian issues."

Now what that means i have no idea, but ive observed a divide between everyone else and the truly transgendered.