Transgender?? Male in the past...?

[Luna555]

Well I havent been very active on this site, but i have a question that has been going through my head for a long time.

Alot of people, especially guys(well atleast the guys ive met), have said that they are more attracted to tgirls/transgender women/shemales(i dont really like this word)....because they are more understanding because they(tgirl) were once male/guy/boy/bloke/etc.


Im not very sure what that means? What does it mean to be a boy? Were all tgirls boys before? and if so what does that mean? I mean i can understand that in the begining tgirls mostlikly had a penis but does that mean that they were a guy before just because they were not taking any hormones or had breast implants?


I just dont get it because my ex boyfriend said that to me and all of a sudden I got kinda defensive and asked him what he ment by saying that i understood him better... I never thought of myself as a guy. Yes sure i dressed in boy-ISH clothes but only because i didnt acknolege at that time period that was actually a girl.

Im not sure but did he mean about liking sports or being emotionally unconnected? (lol ofcourse these are sterotypes of guys but sometiems stereotypes are true to some extent) Ive personally never liked sports, i never even played sports, and even growing up before I was even on any form of hormones i was still very emotional. Ive never like "guy" things.

I guess my overall question is to guys: do you think that way about tgirls, that they were once guys, and girls: do you think that you were once a guy or were you just trying to find yourself or couldnt "transition" yet?


What does it mean to be a guy?????

I know there isnt an exact answer but gosh i would like to hear what others thought on this.

Thanks

[Luna555]

Sorry that my picture is huge! I dint knwo it was.

Thanks Kriss, you fix it!

[Caleigh]

when i was giving lectures on gender i always used to ask the audience how they knew that they thought "like a girl" or "like a guy". that if they thought about it everything that they used to measure such things ended up going back to some social norm or expectation. to tell a masculine woman that she isn't acting like a woman is to prescribe and define what is acceptable as behaviour for a woman, and vice versa for men. it's a very profound and interesting area really.

[Luna555]

Yes i agree. I think its funny that people overall try to say that a woman should act like this and look like this. Its very hard on a person. I think its extra hard in the transgender community.

[BeardedOne]

Mindset/thought patterns, as regards gender and sex, are a mystery. For quite some time I had died-in-the-wool-flannel-wearing-army-boot-kicking-'I can pound a ten-penny nail into a four-inch board with my clit'-sushi-eating-harley-riding dykes calling me a 'male lesbian' because (In their view) I 'Thought like a womon' (Their spelling of 'womon'). They never specified exactly what this thinking pattern was, and further complicated the idea by discussing it as after-sex pillow-talk when they revealed to me that I was the only man they'd ever sexed voluntarily.

One went so far as to write her thesis on gender and 'male lesbianism', interviewing me for weeks on end, yet never let me read the end result (You collegiates out there, are thesii public record at the schools?)

<Thinking>

One has to remember that 'transgender' is a rather far-reaching term that gathers a wide spectrum of gender definition into a single reference which the populace, as a whole, can wrap their tiny minds around. So, defining or explaining any one portion can be near to impossible.

To the question at hand:

I don't see TS (I am focusing on TS here, rather than the broader universe of TG) as so much thinking like a man or even having thought (Past tense) as a man, but there is some part of their lives wherein they lived within the world of men in ways that GGs never will. Relationship and familial expectations, social models, inter-personal relationships, are all quite different. Not just in relation to gender but culture as well.


Ive personally never liked sports, i never even played sports, and even growing up before I was even on any form of hormones i was still very emotional. Ive never like "guy" things.

Well, with the exception that I do enjoy the occasional testosterone-boosting outting to Hooters (No matter what you disrespectful sots think of me now), you've pretty much described me. Does that mean I am a TG/TS? Hmm...Nah.

[Ecstatic]

B1, well said. I was going to post some thoughts along a very similar vein (minus the personal anecdote about the "..harley-riding dykes"), but you've expressed it better than I was going to. All girls aren't 'pink' and all boys aren't 'blue' ya know?

BTW, yes, master's and doctoral thesii should be accessible in the college/university library to which they were submitted.

[specialk]

In my naivete', with more than a passing interest in TS, I had thoughts like...Looks like a woman, thinks like a man...what a combo. Well, I said that to a TS in an email exchange, and it didn't go over too well. I wasn't sure why at that time, but I've long given up on that way of thinking. After a few short "arrangements" with 2 TS, I've come to realize they are very much "The woman" from the get go, except for the genitals.

[BeardedOne]

BTW, yes, master's and doctoral thesii should be accessible in the college/university library to which they were submitted.

Most excellent! I must ping Mary Washington and UVA! :D

[Vala_TS]

Basically, I think what the guys are trying to say/think is that transexuals lived the lives of men in the past so they "know what it is" to be one, this is false because transexuals (including myself) never really lived as men. As per what you stated above about being very emotional, not liking sports and such, this is what seperates pre transition transexuals from men, they never were men in the mental state which men are.

I felt the same way about things like that, I never liked sports, fixing cars, I was also very emotional, well you get the picture.

Bottom line: Men think incorrectly that transexuals lived just the way they did in the past but what they don't know is that it's not true at all.

Vala,

[specialk]

Basically, I think what the guys are trying to say/think is that transexuals lived the lives of men in the past so they "know what it is" to be one, this is false because transexuals (including myself) never really lived as men. As per what you stated above about being very emotional, not liking sports and such, this is what seperates pre transition transexuals from men, they never were men in the mental state which men are.

I felt the same way about things like that, I never liked sports, fixing cars, I was also very emotional, well you get the picture.

Bottom line: Men think incorrectly that transexuals lived just the way they did in the past but what they don't know is that it's not true at all.

Vala,


For someone who never liked sports, you sure know your way around a whiffleball bat Vala!!! ( just kinddin' girl)

[ToyBoy6669]

I find that people assumeing that I was gay in high school simply because I had a high voice and tought fighting was stupid...ok well I am KINDA gay but you get the point

[crayons]

For quite some time I had died-in-the-wool-flannel-wearing-army-boot-kicking-'I can pound a ten-penny nail into a four-inch board with my clit'-sushi-eating-harley-riding dykes

Ingenious use of the English language has never quite been so eliquently put to use in a description of a dyke to my knowledge. Five licks to your beard you devil you.

[suckseed]

Wow. I'm seeing a lot of myself in some of these remarks. K, I've rather proudly thought the same thing. So....that's misguided. I will digest this.
My experience has been that my male friends tend to like talking about things like literature, music, film, etc., and also telling stories. While at dinner with a woman friend, conversation tends to be centered around how she or I are feeling. Of course, I'm the common denominator here, and I'm choosing these people to be around. But in general I'd say that ideas and facts/trivia would characterize my male friends' minds more, while emotions are the province of the women. Who would want to do without either? I enjoy talking with everyone for their own gifts. And hanging out with educated women who had so much to teach me has been some of the most pleasurable time I've ever spent - which is to say that I'm NOT generalizing about women's mental abilities.
I'll add this - we're all partly male and female. Thinking of a penis as simply flesh helps to put it in perspective. It's nothing to be disgusted by, nor worship. And if there is such a thing as a male or female way of thinking - while I understand why a transexual would want to push away the thought of having any male traits, isn't it at least likely that she occupies a special place with more of a mix of both sexes? And why can't that be celebrated?

[Aragon21]

I don't see TS (I am focusing on TS here, rather than the broader universe of TG) as so much thinking like a man or even having thought (Past tense) as a man, but there is some part of their lives wherein they lived within the world of men in ways that GGs never will. Relationship and familial expectations, social models, inter-personal relationships, are all quite different. Not just in relation to gender but culture as well.

B1 nailed it here. TS/TG spent hours in the locker room that a GG never has. They have heard, seen, and maybe even spoke in agreement or shared in the lies that all pre-adolescent boys say.

But let's drop some stereotypes of males too. Environment plays alot into deveolping interests. I grew up in S Florida so while I enjoy many sports they don't include hockey (what is this ice/snow thing?), baseball (didn't have a team in my youth) or NASCAR (never had a "parts" car on cinder blocks in my front yard.)

I change my oil the way nature intended...JiffyLube. And I owe my love of the sports I do watch to 2 things: My stepfather whom my mother married when I was 10, I had never watched a football game before then. And going to college, I love all things Gator and by extension SEC, and further extended to all things collegiate. As I stated all these interests come by way of my environment and not by way of my testosterone level.

[yodajazz]

I don't see TS (I am focusing on TS here, rather than the broader universe of TG) as so much thinking like a man or even having thought (Past tense) as a man, but there is some part of their lives wherein they lived within the world of men in ways that GGs never will. Relationship and familial expectations, social models, inter-personal relationships, are all quite different. Not just in relation to gender but culture as well.

B1 nailed it here. TS/TG spent hours in the locker room that a GG never has. They have heard, seen, and maybe even spoke in agreement or shared in the lies that all pre-adolescent boys say.

But let's drop some stereotypes of males too. Environment plays alot into deveolping interests. I grew up in S Florida so while I enjoy many sports they don't include hockey (what is this ice/snow thing?), baseball (didn't have a team in my youth) or NASCAR (never had a "parts" car on cinder blocks in my front yard.)

I change my oil the way nature intended...JiffyLube. And I owe my love of the sports I do watch to 2 things: My stepfather whom my mother married when I was 10, I had never watched a football game before then. And going to college, I love all things Gator and by extension SEC, and further extended to all things collegiate. As I stated all these interests come by way of my environment and not by way of my testosterone level.

I do think that TS women can have experiences in the male world before their transition, that GG don’t have. Like what men call ‘locker room’ talk. Men do talk differently sometimes when they don’t see any women around. A pre-transition women could get to talk to men differently than they do women. You don’t have to think like someone to understand them. You don’t have to be a sports fan, to understand how important all games are to male socialization, for example.

I do understand that any TS’s great desire is to escape their birth physical sex. I can understand that you might feel it insulting to be thought of as ‘once a male”. In reality all human have a combination of ‘male’ and ‘female’ characteristics. These characteristics are dominant in one sex or the other but not exclusive. I feel that the healthiest people acknowledge their male and female characteristics, however small of a part of them these are. There are some TS women who do acknowledge some of their ‘male qualities’, as well as their feminine ones.

But let me be honest and say the essential male experience is the penis. To get some pleasure from that experience is the essence of maleness. I know that many T-girls say they get no pleasure from it, but many do acknowledge having gotten some pleasure from it. So I think that a lot of men would say that a woman who has experienced pleasure from that organ could better understand how they feel. Sexual identity is really a lot more complex than that. But generally, it is a good thing if someone feels that you understand them better than others do.

One more thing; every little boy grows up with some pressure of what is to become a man. Take your hits from the bigger boys on the playground, and don’t you dare cry. TS’s experience the same thing and reject the whole game. They become women. That is a valid choice, and is the reason for this board. The rest of us just try to play the game, but the rules just keep changing over time, and we muddle through until we die. Why? Because, along the way we get to use that organ of ours to have some pleasure.

[Vala_TS]

Basically, I think what the guys are trying to say/think is that transexuals lived the lives of men in the past so they "know what it is" to be one, this is false because transexuals (including myself) never really lived as men. As per what you stated above about being very emotional, not liking sports and such, this is what seperates pre transition transexuals from men, they never were men in the mental state which men are.

I felt the same way about things like that, I never liked sports, fixing cars, I was also very emotional, well you get the picture.

Bottom line: Men think incorrectly that transexuals lived just the way they did in the past but what they don't know is that it's not true at all.

Vala,


For someone who never liked sports, you sure know your way around a whiffleball bat Vala!!! ( just kinddin' girl)

Why thank you! :D

Vala,