The TS Dilemna... nobody can ever win

[LBCDO]

Ok, I have been in the TS community and have learned much, and I am new to this board, but have been active on others such as the BTG, Brazilian TG, and YUM boards for a while under the name frnkpwrs. In reading and talking and listening I found that there are many issues between the actual TSs and Males that many can not try to discuss without it being presented in a way that starts an argument. So I will try to present it in a fashion where nobody has reason to be offended.

How its fucked up for a TS:

A lot of guys only want me for sex or out of curiousity.
- This is becuase I have found that a large amount of people who are attracted to TSs become introduced to them in a sexually suggestive way. From friends to people I converse with on the internet, the number one reason a lot of people even THINK of becoming attracted to TSs is because they seen one passing the stroll or on the internet and it turned into curiosity. IM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE CASE FOR EVERYONE! But this is definately a popular case.

Guys never want to take me out in public know me on a personal level
-Part of this answer usually comes from the previous statement. But one thing I find strange is that you always hear about girls who refuse to date gay men. So its as if you want men to "come out of the closet" when the truth is, a lot arent ready for that step. Be wise in who you choose to even open up to where you would even want to go out with them in public. I know TS or GG, if they have a bad attitude and we are just fucking, I dont take them out to dinner, movies, or any of that shit. But Ive never been afraid to take a TS girlfriend out and hold her hand in public, yet I understand why someone would be. Not all men are ready and on that level or worthiness.

I CANT DATE A GUY ON A PERSONAL LEVEL WHO PAID ME FOR SEX, ITS A TRAP FOR SOME FREE ASS
Ive heard this tons of times from many girls. If you are putting out a service, how hard can you blame the other person for utilizing it? Ok, you may see it as a real person will get to know you and wouldnt mind waiting, good reasoning. But things happen. Sometimes people meet in the strangest of circumstances. But furthermore, maybe the client is running game on you? Dont always flatter yourself! The same way girls compliment and provide a GFE, a lot of guys cater the BFE also! Its a cold world, but if you dont be smart and close yourself out to everyone, then youll find yourself closing up to everyone.


HOW ITS FUCKED UP BEING A GUY

Girls always want me to pay to hook up with them!
-Believe it or not, not ever single women wants to hook up with every single man! Believe it or not these girls have a preference! Every one is not some porno star nympho out to fuck you in the ass! A lot of guys think nobody wants a TS, so they should take whatever they get. A fucked up line of thinking. Treat a TS like a female. But realize that if you fuck over a TS, you are hurting her more than a GG because it is naturally harder because of a relationship. These are girls who everyday have people who want to fulfill some one time fantasy and leave their life. They have reason to be reserved. Its like GGs, if you are generally interested, you wouldnt mind waiting. If you want a one nighter, then your mission is harder and realize every girl isnt like that. Thats just life.

I keep getting ripped off by girls who claim XXX and OOO!!!
-You havent realized by now that the escorting game is meant to pimp you? Of couse girls are advertising 15" cocks! Your horney and you want to fuck, they'll tell you what you want to hear! Yea ill top you! These girls are out to make money. Not many [yet there are some] escort because they love to fuck. Think about the amount of girls on hmmm... yahoo. You can find all types of TSs and CDs, but I guarantee that 95% of the ones who DONT want money are over the age of 45. Its clever marketting. Buck it up and read reviews.


HOW I FEEL AS LBCDO AKA FRNKPWRS

the whole scene is fucked up. Men spend hours on hours looking at pornos and such and we brainwash ourselves into thinking that TSs are sex objects. We look at them in lust and only think of relationships and such unless they look like our dreamgirls. We have photos to go from, and nothing more. Even the bullshit interviews we read on websites or watch before fuckscenes arent real insite on how girls act. Men need to open up and stop being so uptight with the girls. Every one doesnt want to be your wife. Be a friend to a few. Every bad ass, tight, fucking beautiful girl I know has had at least one rich guy offer to give them a life where they dont pay for shit, just sit in the house and be rich. You gotta be different. You gotta show what you want in a way that is marketable.

I despise a guy who acts like they want a serious relationship and then sends her away after they've hooked up. NOw trust me, there are some girls who might see you in the club and you can spark a convo with they take you home, but playing on a TSs emotion is my pet peeve. Actually befriend one and you will see.

A lot of people say that TSs are moody, but thats because so many dudes fake like they are going to be real. So they are quick to try to seperate the bullshit from everything else because nobody wants drama, and it comes their way more than anyone elses. Some do have bad attitudes, true, but be aware you cant imagine the amount of shit these girls go through.

Its a fucked up circle. We get so horny we pay for sex with these girls at outrageous rates. These girls are only out here trying to make some sort of living becuase of the outrageous price it cost for them to feel like the people that they want to become through surgeries, etc.. But the market that we create for them makes them harder on the inside and more difficult to get to know them. If you pay a girl day by day to have sex, it becomes harder to believe that someone is serious about you when all they want is free sex and they leave. Thats why its fucked up.

Dont bitch and whine about it, realize it is what it is and adapt. Ive had my freebie fucks, paid, and also have had real movies, dinner, wake up togethor relationships. Just trying to give some insight from the experience Ive had in my young little life.

I dont really have a problem with Absolute Shade. If you have been around a few TSs in a group, then what she says is nothing new, she is just being real. A guy can very rarely be as judgemental on a TS as another TS because they know the struggle and the scene and the attitudes and shit talking a lot fo these girls do that we dont see. Go to a ball and hang out with a group of girls and youll hear every thing Shade was saying

-"Her implants look a hot mess"
-"That bitch really thought she was a cunt"
-"The trade is only concerned about the candy"
-"She really must think she fish"

blah blah blah blah blah, LOL. I even posted about the "T CODE" on the BTG forum a while back. I guess thats how I have the understanding that I do. Im around in more places than just the bedroom. BTW, Absolute Shade, if you do read this, if im in NY, how can i find out about the balls and such in NY for when Im visiting? I wanna bump into the girl you know in Washington Heights! Im part dominican with family in the Heights, it would be tight to bump into her

[Slither]

All the things you've listed can be answered with one simple question - it's the sex industry.

The girls have nothing to bitch about when they are all over EROS or whoring themselves out in clubs, and the guys have nothing to bitch about when those are the exact types of girls they go for. If a guy wants a relationship from a TG than he needs to look for one who wants the same thing.

I know plenty of TG's who arent in the "TG Life" who have no problem being in regular relationships just like any GG would. It's about how you present yourself. You cant sell your body on a website for 250 dollars and then turn around and complain that men only see you as a sex object.

[mykeylykey]

LBCDO . . . feelin' your style bro. You'd be surprised how many dudes like me are tucked away in a corner in the middle of nowhere. Translation . . . next to zero access to the "TS/TG" world

Thx for throwing it out there and givin' us a peek on the moves behind the scenes . . .

P.S. welcome to the board


mykey

[Caleigh]

I think Slither has it right. Whenever I hear you guys talk about girls on this board, the between the lines read is that these are escorts you are talking about. There are tons of girls who aren't escorts, who have "normal" jobs and lives and who are interested in meeting nice guys and would love to have a steady relationship. They are a little harder to find than just going down to the local escort club (whenever one opens again now that Edelweiss and NOW bar are both closed).

www.tsgirlfriend.com
www.urnotalone.com
www.tgirls.net

are some places to start looking

[Vicki Richter]

How its fucked up for a TS:

A lot of guys only want me for sex or out of curiousity.
- This is becuase I have found that a large amount of people who are attracted to TSs become introduced to them in a sexually suggestive way. From friends to people I converse with on the internet, the number one reason a lot of people even THINK of becoming attracted to TSs is because they seen one passing the stroll or on the internet and it turned into curiosity. IM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE CASE FOR EVERYONE! But this is definately a popular case.

Guys never want to take me out in public know me on a personal level
-Part of this answer usually comes from the previous statement. But one thing I find strange is that you always hear about girls who refuse to date gay men. So its as if you want men to "come out of the closet" when the truth is, a lot arent ready for that step. Be wise in who you choose to even open up to where you would even want to go out with them in public. I know TS or GG, if they have a bad attitude and we are just fucking, I dont take them out to dinner, movies, or any of that shit. But Ive never been afraid to take a TS girlfriend out and hold her hand in public, yet I understand why someone would be. Not all men are ready and on that level or worthiness.

I CANT DATE A GUY ON A PERSONAL LEVEL WHO PAID ME FOR SEX, ITS A TRAP FOR SOME FREE ASS
Ive heard this tons of times from many girls. If you are putting out a service, how hard can you blame the other person for utilizing it? Ok, you may see it as a real person will get to know you and wouldnt mind waiting, good reasoning. But things happen. Sometimes people meet in the strangest of circumstances. But furthermore, maybe the client is running game on you? Dont always flatter yourself! The same way girls compliment and provide a GFE, a lot of guys cater the BFE also! Its a cold world, but if you dont be smart and close yourself out to everyone, then youll find yourself closing up to everyone.



I don't agree with any of these. If girls are uncomfortable with their appearances or clockability, then they should take measures to correct that. Passability makes life 1000% better for everyone involved. A lot of girls spend money frivolously on drugs, $500 boots, and other stuff when they should be saving every penny for a nose job or other FFS surgeries. Yes being a TS can be hard and not everyone is born beautiful. BUT... saving and investing money back into oneself can make all the difference.

Next as far as the men just want sex or not dating the men who date them... That is crap too. Again, most of the TS I've met want early 20's hot young guys. However, these guys are emotionally immature to begin with most of the time (sorry to any early 20's guys). They aren't ready to introduce a girl who isn't 100% passable to their parents or friends. You get up into the guys 40+ (maybe 30+ in some cases) I think these guys know what they want and more often have decided that they want a TS in their life and are more comfortable with allowing society to know about it.

I don't feel sorry for anyone who wastes thousands on designer clothes and partying and then feel bad about guys not wanting to be seen in public with them. I also don't feel really bad about girls being alone just because they have an ideal of a 22 year old Dean Caine looking guy when I have found there to be A LOT of guys a bit older ready to settle down and willing to accept someone into their lives.

Where the real fuck up is, is with a girl giving up years of income potential as an escort for a relationship which is doomed to fail. Because there isn't really a marriage option, alimony or other spousal support options available for genetic girls aren't available to T's. I think this is the real catch 22. I don't honestly have a lot of faith in relationships because one of the people always seem to screw it up and nobody today is willing to suffer bad times to fix problems when leaving is so easy.

My opinion is that the key to a successful life for a TS is to make a bunch of money, get whatever surgeries she wants, then get out of the sex industry and get a more mainstream job, even if it pays less. Then find/date a guy like normal non-sex industry workers do. I don't care who you are, you don't want your significant other (or someone you are going to take seriously as a significant other) going out f'ing a gazillion other people.

[Felicia Katt]

All the things you've listed can be answered with one simple question - it's the sex industry.

The girls have nothing to bitch about when they are all over EROS or whoring themselves out in clubs, and the guys have nothing to bitch about when those are the exact types of girls they go for. If a guy wants a relationship from a TG than he needs to look for one who wants the same thing.

I know plenty of TG's who arent in the "TG Life" who have no problem being in regular relationships just like any GG would. It's about how you present yourself. You cant sell your body on a website for 250 dollars and then turn around and complain that men only see you as a sex object.

its not the same for a tg as for a gg and it never will be. there are a million places to meet gg's or for gg's to meet nice men. none of those resources are open to most tgirls. Unless they are pretty stealth, they would face subtle or not so subtle pressure to leave. Not to mention, there would be a real shortage, if not absence of men at those places who either like tgirls, or were strong enough to deal with suddenly being with one. I did a thread here about who here would ever take a tgirl home to meet mother. the response was less than overwhelming. fair or not, most guys, even those who like tgirls, only want to be with us in private or in the tg world. not in reality

so, our options are limited. and our choices at those limited venues are also limited. Most guys are attracted to the girls who look like escorts or look like they could be in adult entertainment. You don't get a lot of attention in a business suit. I haven't seen any threads here about hot tg librarians. So most girls in those clubs or enviroments adopt that kind of look. And fair or not, most guys treat all girls as if they were sex objects, if not sex workers. Guys will ask you for a blow job before they will tell you their last name. Girls are asked to go down, not go out.

so, don't blame the girls, or the "industry". Unless you have gone to a club and acted like a potential boyfriend, instead of a trick, you are part of the problem, not its victim

Felicia

[Felicia Katt]

I just read the "nice girls" thread and it couldn't have made my point better. the "nice" girls are posted by some guy who is obsessed with their cocks, and didn't even bother to know their names.

Felicia

[Vicki Richter]

Felicia,

Many of the puristic transsexuals look down on people like us and for good reason. Quite a few of them blend into society much better than shemales or girls here posting on hung angels. Don't get me wrong, there are some earthy transsexuals out there who blend well, but aren't beautiful by any stretch, but at least they aren't exploiting themselves and then getting upset about the backlash.

What we are discussing here are two different things. A shemale/pre-op sex worker living as a female, and a transsexual who has intentions of getting out of sex work (or hasn't even been previously involved in sex work) and living as a female. I would argue that there are MANY more true transsexuals living in the USA than shemale/escort types by a significant margin. They work normal jobs, live normal lives, and I would be willing to bet have more normal relationships. The reason you don't hear about the hot TS librarian is because you don't know she is a TS and she would probably never go to Peanuts or Allanah's parties or any other shemale establishment.

Dr Ousterhout is booked up for FFS surgeries like 3 months ahead of time. That means he does roughly 200 of these surgeries a year. All of the best SRS surgeons have similar waiting lists. What this elludes to is a lot of post-op transsexuals running around. I don't know the "man in a dress" to real passable TS ratio, but I just know a lot of people are out there with fake vaginas and face surgeries.

Anyway, if you are talking shemales (which I define as a transgender living as a female, but working in the sex industry), then I would say shemales are victims of our own lifestyle and lifestyle choices and how can you pity people who create their own relationship issues. I am not berating anyone or claiming to be better. I just don't tend to play the victim card about men and how they treat us. I wouldn't seriously date a male sex worker, so I can see how some nice, normal, balanced guys would have a problem taking someone seriously reversing the scenario.

[Ecstatic]

Vicki, you make an important distinction between MtF transgenders living as females (either pre- or post-op) who are not and quite possibly never participated in the adult entertainment or sex industry, and those who are in the industry, whether as escorts, performers, actors, or any other role. I also think you and Felicia are both right about the attitude of most guys who are attracted to tgirls, which helps foster the "tranny chaser" label: most guys are interested in the type of tgirl as you say who is seen here, not the tgirl librarian or dentist. That's only natural, since that's the sort of tgirl guys are exposed to, and since those girls tend to really pump it up with regards to sexy dress, appearance, and attitude (working or not). Also, it seems that a large percentage of those guys are interested in a girl's cock, not her as a person, but I'll play glass half full and say that most guys aren't quite that shallow.

Anyway, have you read any of Jennifer Boylan's observations on the subject? Jennifer Finney Boylan is a transgender MtF professor at Colby College in Maine (there's a non-sex industry role for you) and author of the book "She's Not There: A Life in Two Genders", who estimates the number of transgenders in the US at 40,000. She says:

"The problem is that most people don't know about it. And one reason is that people who make the transition frequently vanish off the radar and go about the business of living normal lives. I mean, who is there in the public eye who's transgendered? Michael Jackson? David Spade?"

That disappearing off the radar I think is what you're talking about; even if we pass these people everyday, we wouldn't know it (well, you might, being far more aware of the subtle differences which most people don't pick up on, but you get my point). So all that we "tranny chasers" ever get to meet are escorts and entertainers, and that's only one cross-section of the demographic. I know many GLB's but outside of the sex industry, no T's.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I have an interesting story to add to this thread.

Tonight I spoke to a guy online who has been after me for a quite a while
(to take me out and get to know me on a personal level as he puts it)

Well he persisted so much I finally agreed to give him my number.

He IM's me tonight and ask me if I was @ Spirit last week ( a NYC club)
I said yes and he said he saw me when he was leaving. I was with a few girlfriends so we were obvious and out to have fun.

I asked him why did he not say hi to me and he did not really have an answer. Then I knew it- I asked him if he was friends and he said yes.
So I asked him if he had not said hi to me because he was with his friends. And he is not open about what he likes.

Ok, now I'm really pissed. I am not one to tolerate rudeness or lack of
and manners but to tell someone you "supposedly" have an interest in them and you can't exchange a greeting because you are afraid of your friends? This is the kind of things a lot of transsexuals have to deal with and can be quite traumatic if you do not have a high self esteem or self worth.

Needles to say, I put him in his place politely and asked him to please not embarrass himself by trying to talk to me again. Last I checked I was not a leper.

If I was younger, less experienced, and more vaunerable I would have let that really affect me. The truth of the matter is that very few men who like transsexuals are really comfortable with that attraction. They often
turn that discomfort into they way they treat us or see us.

I can tell you that I have heard every single story in the book. I am genuinely a nice person and my problem is that I often expect too much from people and they often deliver much less; especially in my romantic experiences.

I would like to say that I am still involved in the "war of the sexes" but I truly am not. I am not trying to figure guys who like trannies out and my days of reading romantic self help books are over. I have realized that in most cases, the problem has not been me but my suitors inability to deal with me sexuality. I am really happy being alone and living with myself. I am very accepting of who I am and I am not traumatized by a man freaking out over me or by a man who can not deal with the fact that I am a trannsexual. If I can accept myself for who I am then I expect no less from a man I am interested in. If a man is repressed, ashamed, or dislikes himself for his attraction well then he needs to work through that if he wants to.

Myself, I am a in the sex business and I am very well aware of that what that entails and the stigmas you are branded with. However, that is not my problem. I like what I do, I like how I live.

[Mugai_hentaisha]

I have an interesting story to add to this thread.

Tonight I spoke to a guy online who has been after me for a quite a while
(to take me out and get to know me on a personal level as he puts it)

Well he persisted so much I finally agreed to give him my number.

He IM's me tonight and ask me if I was @ Spirit last week ( a NYC club)
I said yes and he said he saw me when he was leaving. I was with a few girlfriends so we were obvious and out to have fun.

I asked him why did he not say hi to me and he did not really have an answer. Then I knew it- I asked him if he was friends and he said yes.
So I asked him if he had not said hi to me because he was with his friends. And he is not open about what he likes.

Ok, now I'm really pissed. I am not one to tolerate rudeness or lack of
and manners but to tell someone you "supposedly" have an interest in them and you can't exchange a greeting because you are afraid of your friends? This is the kind of things a lot of transsexuals have to deal with and can be quite traumatic if you do not have a high self esteem or self worth.

Needles to say, I put him in his place politely and asked him to please not embarrass himself by trying to talk to me again. Last I checked I was not a leper.

If I was younger, less experienced, and more vaunerable I would have let that really affect me. The truth of the matter is that very few men who like transsexuals are really comfortable with that attraction. They often
turn that discomfort into they way they treat us or see us.

I can tell you that I have heard every single story in the book. I am genuinely a nice person and my problem is that I often expect too much from people and they often deliver much less; especially in my romantic experiences.

I would like to say that I am still involved in the "war of the sexes" but I truly am not. I am not trying to figure guys who like trannies out and my days of reading romantic self help books are over. I have realized that in most cases, the problem has not been me but my suitors inability to deal with me sexuality. I am really happy being alone and living with myself. I am very accepting of who I am and I am not traumatized by a man freaking out over me or by a man who can not deal with the fact that I am a trannsexual. If I can accept myself for who I am then I expect no less from a man I am interested in. If a man is repressed, ashamed, or dislikes himself for his attraction well then he needs to work through that if he wants to.

Myself, I am a in the sex business and I am very well aware of that what that entails and the stigmas you are branded with. However, that is not my problem. I like what I do, I like how I live.

Kudos to you Allanah

the man you described had some real hang ups to the max. the least he could have done was say, "hey buds i see someone over there i used to know excuse be for a bit i want to say hi." or he could have just never brought up the fact that he saw you, i mean jeesh it doesn't take a brainiac to figure out that a person with a persona as strong as yours allanah is going to react.

Sorry it didn't work out for ya Allanah i feel for ya and if it is any consolation........ i still think you're da bomb, baby :P

[flabbybody]

Correct me if I'm wrong Allanah, but this guy's got to be young (like early to mid twenties?). As someone in my early forties I have come to terms with who I am and who I want to hang with. Have I blasted a mass email in my work place announcing my sexual preference? No. But I've spoken to enough friends about what I do and I wouldn't have revealed this when I was younger. Most of the people in my life think it's no big deal and just want me to be happey. One or two had a problem with it, so f--k them. They weren't really my friend in the first place. This kid who dissed you in the club has a serious problem with himself. Plus he blew a chance to go out with you. what a total loser.

[dajuicy]

vickie's post....and the general level of talk here is great....there is no better place to try and understand all there is when talking about shemales and admirers....and make no mistake, its kinda of complicated....i mean very complicated....i just came off a year or so, of trying, to have a semi/non escort thing happening, with a very sweet girl, who i wont name, with a girl tht i began with as a client/escort relationship. finally, i just stopped emailing her, and of course she hasnt responded with, oh hell, why have you stopped emailing me...the truth is, its very very difficult to have it both ways......and i guess its kind of stupid and naive even to try...but, there is a craving in us all, in all our relationships, especially sex, that if you are paying for it, nevertheless, you want it to be about more than your nut/ for the money...im always looking for a girl, who i can have "something special" with...i guess im naivie, cause im not being up front and honest to begin with..this is all in the closet for me....so i am not really free to be totally out ther...so who am i kidding trying to have something "more" than money for forbidden sex thing happening...Im deluding myself and in a way, not fair to the girl, because, im not taking this t girl out to a restaurant, etc, cause im first of all married, and second of all, scared shitless that someone would see me with a girl with a cock, and thats it....im some hopeless faggot....i think its obvious that i, and maybe a lot of guys are not all that comfortable with this part of themselves...but yet i cant shake it....so back to my little story....sad though it may be....i "dated" this girl a few times, and she i guessed kind of liked me..or did a pretty ggood job of acting.....probably the later...( the really good escorts are very very adept at making your believe they really think you are special and not just a standard john)....anywas....i emailed this girl and from time to time i "helped" her out when she was in money trouble.....also tryed to do a little neteworking for a friend of hers.....finally, after some months went by...she said....to me....the next one...our next meeting was "on the house"...now this really got me going cause i was so interested in seeing what it would feel like, if the sex didnt have any monetary thing attached to it.....well, appointmen after apointment keep not happening....i couldnt she couldnt, she couldnt...didnt answer the email, the phone...whatever....and then it kind of dawned on me....that well, the whole thing was a sham.....i had lent her money, to get in her good graces with the idea that we might be something beyond client/provider....and at the same time, i wasnt really prepared to offer her anything but fking money.....i stopped botherin her...really as a test to see what would happen, would she miss my e mails/ me....and then answer....what do you think...is no...shes never once initiated an e mail to me, unless it was because she needed help....So what have i learned, nothing......im still crave sex....but still have need in me for something that is a little deeper and more meaningful.....usually after i sucumb to buying sex, usually on the strollll, but very very sporadically now, cause i never see anyone out there that looks nice.....so fking hard looking.....i still cruize the stroll, but i rarely indulge....the point being that after i do buy some action, im usually racked with stupid guilt.....its all so fked up...i share one mor litle stupid story....two mornings ago, im out driving around horney and crazy....i see this girl i have wanted to get with, shes on the internet...black girl with a big black cock....heart thumping i picke her up.....she remembers me...although i dont even know if ive ever been with her....she runs some amazing game about her life...been in the south, lousiana.....married, being a house wife....guy gives her thousands of dollars.....and mor if she comes...bla bla....yea and im just nodding as im looking for a place to do tht nasty....then...she says...hey, could i have the money now....now of course this is a absolute no no..a sure sign that you are about to get ripped off...and i know it.... feel it..and then like a fking maniac...do it...just give her the money.....and just like in the script...she says..pull over......i just want to go in the pharmacy and buy cigarettss.....sure i say....knowing as soon as she get s out of the car. she is gone....."dont worry she says...i will beback....yea, i look at her, knowing that she is going to bolt...and she looks in my face and knows that i know she is going to bolt....she exits i wait like a fool for 5 minutes then proceed to go uptown....hating myself...but somehow glad i dint suck her dick....one less chance i weas going to get some funky herpes disease....how fucked up is this!...and then this morning, cruzing aimlessly again down there...and dont you know she appears out of the shadows....and says..."im sorry".....ha....."im sorry"...she tryed to get me to take her to brooklyn i begged off. but funny, i felt like she was genuinely sorry....and in that moment, i was feeling her humanity..and for a second, she was genuine....and we were just two people there......and now, i feel better about her that she was able to do that.....sorry about the ramblin....i gueess if i was getting enough real loving at home i wouldnt be cruzing the streets early in the morning...take care...this is the best place to talk there is.....peace.

[wukinpunub68]

For the first time i went on a date with a transexual. I met her off of a chat line and she was looking for a new friend. I said to myself can i really trully date a transexual and it not be about sex. We went out and all i did was treat her with the utmost respect. I had a nice time and we have gone out on several dates to Staight clubs and TS friendly clubs. Now she is a very beautiful sweet person but not the most passable woman out there but as another poster said the older you get the more you don't care about what other people say. I saw her at Allanah's last party and i was like you look great (no Drama). we are friends for now i like going out with her. i say this to say that we all wish we could have a dimepiece on our arm ts or gg but as the older you get you really see whats important and whats not. I have some friends who knows my likes and some who dont but it's none of their business either way, but i wouldnt act like i dont know her if i saw her when i was out with the guys.

[eclipse2000b]

I'm a ts will have srs within the next year. I know a lot of escorts on one hand and national activists for trans glbt rights on the other. In fact, I used to be an escort and have since moved on to a professional job. It's pretty clear that tranny chasers and transwomen are kind of lumped together by circumstances, and hard social realities. Still, that doesn't make us a very good fit and that's why there's so much mutual antagonism. In the end, you guys want women like us mostly b/c of the cock. That fact, in the end, makes our two communities a poor fit.

I think Vicki is right in most of her post. The one thing I've noticed, however, is that there is not a real firm dichotomy between a "Shemale" escort and a transsexual. In many cases people who work in the sex industry (like me) move on as they become more passable and find other types of work. Also, a lot of the girls that some of the posters criticized are pretty young, in there twenties. It's only natural that they are attracted to people their own age. Also, these girls are generally amongst the prettiest in the tranz communnity and it's not surprising that they aren't interested in dating older, pudgy balding guys. I'd feel bad about writing that, but lets face it: most of you guys wouldn't date a 45 year old transwoman who wasn't the most passable, no matter how great a conversationalist she is...


The guy that snubbed Allanah is pretty typical. The funny thing is that I've been to clubs a million times with my straight guy friends. I have to explain that my friend was gay and his roomate (former co-worker) was straight and so were his friends. They would kiss me in public, hang-out with me, and apparently thought nothing of it. Not one of them asked me about whether my 'hair was real' or if my breasts were 'fake or hormones." Did I have an opportunity to date of them? Yes, I actually did, but I was seeing someone else at the time. There's such a differene between the guys who seriously pursue transgendered women and the average Joe Blow. I know most of you don't realize or understand this,but it's true.

With the dating question, most, if not all, tranny chasers tend to fetish the penis for whatever reason. I've noticed among the transwomen that I've known over the past eight years or so that there's a trajectory that many of us seem to follow. When we first come out, many of us are willining to do a lot of stuff sexually b/c we don't truly understand the scene, or just don't care. When I became an escort, I thought guys wanted me for my femininity, not the cock. It was a big surprise and unpleasant surprise when I found out that I was expected to penetrate men! But I needed the cash at the time and I did it. Since my retirement I've not penetrated any men, and will not do so for the rest of my life. While there are some transwomen who are quite comfortable being 'tops' most are not. In fact, I'd say the percentages are something in the 90% range of ts women who simply want to live as women in every way. I've spoken with top escorts in three major cities. Each of these girls was scheming to get out of the sex trade and being a 'top-gun ' for hire. Even many of the women who are comfortable being a top, will most likely want to move on eventually.

With all of this considered, there are some great guys out there amongst the ranks of tranny admirers. wukinpunub68 for instance, sounds like a good person. But this doesn't eliminate the tension between guys who see us and think 'she's hot! I want to suck her cock!"

[Ecstatic]

Excellent post, eclipse. I'm glad this thread is attracting a lot of good dialogue from many angles, not just tranny admirer and escort/entertainer. I hope all goes well with your srs next year.

You say:


But this doesn't eliminate the tension between guys who see us and think 'she's hot! I want to suck her cock!"
I assume you mean the tension between these guys and you girls? There are two powerful if superficial attractions between tranny admirers and tgirls: beauty and cock. Beauty can be found with gg's, and cock with gay men, but it's the combination which is such a powerful draw. It's compelling beyond rationalization (not that I haven't done my share of thinking about it): in general, nothing else turns me on as much. That's the "powerful" aspect of the attraction; the "superficial" is that, until you actually get to know someone, it's the physical (seen or hidden but known) which attracts in the context of wanting to "hook up" with someone. (If I were to meet a T in a discussion group, at a dinner party, or in some other social setting where sex is not the overriding interest, I probably wouldn't even know she was a T and wouldn't care; in that context, it would be the social intercourse that would be of interest, not potential sexual intercourse. But in the context of this forum and even this thread, this is not the norm.)

As a bi male who has always been very attracted to beautiful women and who loves sex with both men and women (but who is not otherwise attracted to men), I am more attracted to a beautiful T than either women or men. Yes, I'm drawn to her beauty, and yes, I'm drawn to her cock. However, I don't make her cock the object of my attraction; even when I'm with an escort, I take my time before going there, relishing her feminine charms. Usually (and I'm sure because of the time factor--you're lucky to actually get the full hour you're paying for much of the time) the girl goes for the gold before I do: either pushing me to hers, or going for mine (it seems about split in that sense in my experience). Likewise, I love a versatile girl because I desire both topping and being topped. If the girl isn't into topping, that's fine with me, though it's not my first choice. One of my favorite girls only tops; I've yet to "have" her while she "has" me every time. She really prefers this; I guess that puts her in the 10% category. Another girl I've seen many times is truly versatile, though she says she prefers top. The first is Thai, the second Mexican, and both say that they never had any experience as top until they came to the US, that guys being bottom is an American thing. Yet both soon came to enjoy topping. This I think is interesting from a sociological point of view.

I don't seek out women or post-op girls because of my natural desire for a versatile TS. However, I fully and wholeheartedly support any girl's wish to be fully a woman. If I were seeing a girl who wanted and then had srs, I would still want to see her afterwards: once I know someone, it's the person who becomes important, not the physical attributes. Having become friends with a couple of girls, I hope to continue being friends with them whether they have srs or not, and whether they want to stop escorting or not. I would miss the sex, but sex is sex, and friendship is something much more important. (Though I don't deny I would seek it elsewhere, as I have as a married man, with my wife's knowledge and support.)

[flabbybody]

despite my screen name, I'm not pudgy or balding. Not all older guys are physically unappealing. If you go to the gym everyday and don't eat and drink like a jerk, guys can look great as they get older. And you're right eclipse, I wouldn't date a 45 year old transwoman. But you know what? I wouldn't date a 45 year old gg either. Nature is just harder on females (both tgirl and gg) than males when it comes to aging.
I know I'll take shit for this, just being honest.

[Felicia Katt]

there are some beautiful 40 year old women out there. Trans and otherwise.

40 is the new 30.


Felicia

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

I have an interesting story to add to this thread.

Tonight I spoke to a guy online who has been after me for a quite a while
(to take me out and get to know me on a personal level as he puts it)

Well he persisted so much I finally agreed to give him my number.

He IM's me tonight and ask me if I was @ Spirit last week ( a NYC club)
I said yes and he said he saw me when he was leaving. I was with a few girlfriends so we were obvious and out to have fun.

I asked him why did he not say hi to me and he did not really have an answer. Then I knew it- I asked him if he was friends and he said yes.
So I asked him if he had not said hi to me because he was with his friends. And he is not open about what he likes.

Ok, now I'm really pissed. I am not one to tolerate rudeness or lack of
and manners but to tell someone you "supposedly" have an interest in them and you can't exchange a greeting because you are afraid of your friends? This is the kind of things a lot of transsexuals have to deal with and can be quite traumatic if you do not have a high self esteem or self worth.

Needles to say, I put him in his place politely and asked him to please not embarrass himself by trying to talk to me again. Last I checked I was not a leper.

If I was younger, less experienced, and more vaunerable I would have let that really affect me. The truth of the matter is that very few men who like transsexuals are really comfortable with that attraction. They often
turn that discomfort into they way they treat us or see us.

I can tell you that I have heard every single story in the book. I am genuinely a nice person and my problem is that I often expect too much from people and they often deliver much less; especially in my romantic experiences.

I would like to say that I am still involved in the "war of the sexes" but I truly am not. I am not trying to figure guys who like trannies out and my days of reading romantic self help books are over. I have realized that in most cases, the problem has not been me but my suitors inability to deal with me sexuality. I am really happy being alone and living with myself. I am very accepting of who I am and I am not traumatized by a man freaking out over me or by a man who can not deal with the fact that I am a trannsexual. If I can accept myself for who I am then I expect no less from a man I am interested in. If a man is repressed, ashamed, or dislikes himself for his attraction well then he needs to work through that if he wants to.

Myself, I am a in the sex business and I am very well aware of that what that entails and the stigmas you are branded with. However, that is not my problem. I like what I do, I like how I live.


Allanah..You turned it!

These guys go thru it...They're fustrated fags!

They are quick to diss on gay guys....but when in reality they are the biggest faggots!

If you were such a "MAN"...you wouldn't care what anyone says about you or thinks about you...

Instead you act like some scared fag!

[hwbs]

ohh miss starr .... this pickle still luvs u ..which doesnt mean im dressing up as an american indian on thanksgiving :)....ohh but back to the topic... my family is aware of my lifestyle and my older friends have moved away, so i dont have to worry about who sees me with who...cause the friends i have now are in the same boat as me or know how i am from the start..i dont really blame any stigmas on failed relationshis with TS s , cause dating in a big city is hard enough as it is ..you pretty much just have to live and learn..i dont regret any of the relationships ive had , but it is tough when the girl is in the sex trade ... but again no one is holding a gun to our heads to date transsexuals... ive made my bed and i have no problems sleeping in it..
have a happy and safe holiday !!!!


pickles

[magic9inch]

SHADE YOU A FAG. YOU MIGHT NOT BE A TRANSEXUAL. YOU MIGHT BE A CROSSDRESSER SHADE. SHADE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CALL SOMEBODY A FAG. THANK YOU.

P.S I UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES CAUSE I'M A CLOSET PERSON. NEVER TOLD NOBODY ABOUT MY PACKAGE.

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

LMAO...PATOS FUSTRADOS!!!

IF YOU NOT A FAG...THEN WHAT I SAID SHOULDNT OFFEND YOU!

BUT THE LAST TIME I CHECKED...FAGS LIKE DICK! GIRLS LIKE DICK! TRANNIES LIKE DICK! DL FAGS LIKE DICK!

REMEMBER...IF U DON'T HAVE A GUILTY CONSCIENCE...U WON'T EVEN BOTHER RESPONDING 2 ME! (BECAUSE YOUR SECURE WITH YOUR SEXUALITY)

[zerrrr]

This is a great and fascinating thread. I have read and reread these posts and feel compelled to add my feelings.

LBCDO, great post. You have captured a lot of my feelings about this lifestyle.

Vicki, you touch on some important points like the tgs spending their money on drugs when they should be reinvesting it in themselves. I see that in people who go away to college and get caught up in the party lifestyle. They enjoy the freedom of being out from under their parents or guardians wing and instead of realizing that said freedom comes responsibilities they throw themselves into alcohol and drugs. These people usually don’t make it through their first year. Unfortunately, the tgs that involve themselves with drugs and alcohol end up falling into a downward spiral that takes years to play out and does not end well. I have seen that many times with friends. Not a pretty sight. Maybe there should be some sort of support group to help the 18 and 19 year olds or am I being too idealistic?

Would I consider a relationship with a TG? Yeah, but I realize that there are parts of me that would have problems and I need to change those parts of me. I did meet someone online but backed out at the last minute. I think it was because me started emailing, Iming each other, and decided to meet in one night. Looking back, that is the part that probably freaked me out. Meeting someone on the Internet is weird enough although the bar scene can be just as weird if not weirder. But I have been in enough bad relationships with gg’s to film a bad movie. From the girlfriend who tried to pull the pregnancy card to the psycho to the 30 year old going on 70, the girl that tried to get pregnant then stalked (yes, stalked) me after we broke up, and the one who cheated on me, I have just about had enough. I usually go a year between relationships and just prefer the freedom of being single. I have learned that being single can be very rewarding. You don’t have to feel lonely. I use the extra freedom to expand my horizons. That is why I enjoy stuff like Cirque and impressionistic art as much as a good sporting event and playing online poker. You can’t hunt for a relationship, that is how stalking starts. I just sit back and let the relationships come to me. Am I perfect? Far from it, but at least I realize my foibles and can either seek to change them or accept them as a part of me. There is a gg interested in me now but there are some flags going up related to her consumption of alcohol.

As a person, I have a youthful face (much younger than my real age) and usually get propositioned about half a dozen times at Allanah’s parties. That tends to get boring after awhile. A tg walks up, grabs my member, and wants to leave or go to the bathroom. I smile politely, decline the offer, refuse to give her a tip (hey, she grabbed me and should be tipping me), and watch her walk away.

Would I approach a TS in a bar? If I knew her on a level where we could call each other friends, yes. If not, then I doubt I would go out of the way. I prefer to hang out and peoplewatch. They can be so fascinating.

Not sure if this makes any sense or adds to the discussion but it sure felt theraputic to type it all out.

[ONEWORLD]

These guys go thru it...They're fustrated fags!

They are quick to diss on gay guys....but when in reality they are the biggest faggots!

If you were such a "MAN"...you wouldn't care what anyone says about you or thinks about you...

Instead you act like some scared fag!

LOL @ ABSOLUTE SHADE...I DIDN'T EXPECT MY 1ST POST TO BE SO PERSONAL BUT I MUST WEIGH IN...THOUGH I'M NOT INTO LABELS I'VE HAD TO DUST A FEW OFF
MY OWN SHOULDERS, I REALLY MUST AGREE WITH SHADE
AND FURTHERMORE; JUST LIKE THERE'S A DISTINCTION BETWEEN
TRANSEXUALS & TRANVESTITES, THERE SHOULD ALSO BE ONE

BETWEEN "TRANNY-CHASERS" AND "STRAIGHT" GUYS THAT DATE T-GIRLS FOR THEIR RESEMBLANCE TO WOMEN. PERSONALLY, THROUGH
MY TRAVELS, I'VE COME ACROSS VERY FEW GUYS LIKE ME, BUT WE ARE
OUT THERE...I'VE HAD A FEW MEANINGFUL SOME SEMI-MEANINGFUL...LOL TG RELATIONSHIPS SPRINKLED IN BETWEEN GENETIC FEMALES IN MY LIFE & ONE THING I DON'T TOLERATE IS A GLIMPSE OF THE "YOU KNOW WHAT". GAG...
BUT IN DEFENSE OF THE GUYS WHO DO LIKE IT, YOU CAN'T WIN WITH THESE GIRLS EITHER WAY...THERE JUST A CONFUSED AS GENETIC FEMALES...I MEAN WHEN YOU EXPRESS DISDAIN FOR THEIR PENIS, INITIALLY THEY ARE PRETTY EXCITED, THEN AS TIME AS GOES ON, THEY RESENT THE FACT THAT YOU'RE REJECTING A PART OF THEM...SO AS LBCDO SAYS "NOBODY CAN NEVER WIN".



I am not trying to figure guys who like trannies out and my days of reading romantic self help books are over. I have realized that in most cases, the problem has not been me but my suitors inability to deal with me sexuality. I am really happy being alone and living with myself. I am very accepting of who I am and I am not traumatized by a man freaking out over me or by a man who can not deal with the fact that I am a trannsexual. If I can accept myself for who I am then I expect no less from a man I am interested in. If a man is repressed, ashamed, or dislikes himself for his attraction well then he needs to work through that if he wants to.

GOOD FOR YOU MAMA, REFLECTING ON MY "JOURNEY", MY ADVICE TO ANY TRANSGENDERED GIRL IS DON'T WAIT ON DUDE. DUDE MAY NEVER COME AROUND TO ANY SUBSTANTIAL SELF-REALIZATION, AND IF DUDE DOES, IT MAY NOT BE TO THE DEGREE THAT SATISFIES YOU...WHY SETTLE, RIGHT? PERSONALLY, MY X & I BROKE UP BECAUSE SHE WAS MOVING TOO FAST, PUSHING ME BEFORE I WAS READY...A FEW YEARS LATER, I AM & SOMEONE ELSE IS REAPING THE FRUITS OF HER LABOR...

[eclipse2000b]

BUT IN DEFENSE OF THE GUYS WHO DO LIKE IT, YOU CAN'T WIN WITH THESE GIRLS EITHER WAY...THERE JUST A CONFUSED AS GENETIC FEMALES...I MEAN WHEN YOU EXPRESS DISDAIN FOR THEIR PENIS, INITIALLY THEY ARE PRETTY EXCITED, THEN AS TIME AS GOES ON, THEY RESENT THE FACT THAT YOU'RE REJECTING A PART OF THEM


Honey, I don't know who you dated, but most of the transsexuals that I know are on the path to srs. Even the ones who don't want the surgery over time seem to change their tune. In fact, I used to think the surgery was unnecessay. But now, I see it as a matter of convience, and to be frank I'm just tired of having it swing down there. I only use it to pee with and have no desire to have sex with it anymore. So it's just a stupid waste of flesh for me. I do not allow men to touch my penis and immediately lose interest in any guy that wants to bottom. I don't think you guys realize that to most women/trans or gg, one of the prime attraction features of men is their strength, masculinity and sexual dimorphism. A guy on his knees sucking dick or begging to be penetrated is not the ideal that most women grow up desiring. Now, there's probably a minority of trans out there who do like to fuck men in the ass. Escorts will say what you want to hear (not giving an disrespect to escorts: I used to be one), so I don't know how objective they can be.

Now, I have a certain respect for clients b/c everything's honest and in the open. The tranny chasers that give everyone else a bad name are the ones who lie, lie, lie. These guys are the ones who try to date trans women. Lie #1 "I'm straight." When you say you are straight that doesn't include being a master of performing fellatio or getting fucked in the ass. Lie #2 "I'm looking for a relationship" when in fact you are only looking for gay sex and then be able to deny it al la Allanah's admirer. Worse yet are the married guys... If these guys were honest about who they are and what their agendas are, I think there would be lots less antagonism.

One thing that Shade (perhaps in confrontational manner)mentioned is that a lot of tranny chasers rip on Gay men. Why is that so? I mean it seems intellectually dishonest to hurl about slurs when you do in secret what they have guts to admit publicly. I've had guys approach me in Gay bars and announce that they are "straight" and they immediately start ripping on Gay men (who are often personal friends).

Now I'm not sayng that we transpeople are angels and not part of the dysfunktional equation. In a way, we create our own messes. Not long ago I had chance to visit some NYC clubs (before they closed down). I was pleased to see so many sisters in one place, but saddened to see so many open displays of nudity, etc. I know not of all of feel that we are women, but I think there should be some sense of public decorum. If we don't want to be treated in a trashy manner, we shouldn't behave that way.

Finally, there's no excuse for the simple rudeness of many tranny chasers. I can't believe the guys who tug at my hair yelling over pumping music 'is it real????" I've had guys whose names I didn't even know ask me if my 'tits are silicone or implants?" Let me tell you, I don't deal with this kind of stuff in straight bars. That's one big reason why I pretty much hang there instead of places where transfans are the majority.

All told, I think honest dialogue such as this thread is necessary and helpful.
Peace

eclipse

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

I'm so happy that finally the girls are putting their input in this forum..

These guys have the weirdest conceptions of us!

These say they don't like gay men or fags...but want us 2 act like gay men and shove our cocks in their mouth and ass.

Why do you think most trannies don't even like trannie porn?

Remember guys..alot of the girls that post on here are WELL KNOWN ESCORT OR PORN STARS...so they have to feed into your image so they can make a profit off you!

If this forum was only 4 transsexuals...You would see way different postings!

How is a transsexual suppose 2 feel femimine when it seems your main concern is how big her cock is or if she's fully functional?

[LBCDO]

I'm so happy that finally the girls are putting their input in this forum..

These guys have the weirdest conceptions of us!

These say they don't like gay men or fags...but want us 2 act like gay men and shove our cocks in their mouth and ass.

Why do you think most trannies don't even like trannie porn?

Remember guys..alot of the girls that post on here are WELL KNOWN ESCORT OR PORN STARS...so they have to feed into your image so they can make a profit off you!

If this forum was only 4 transsexuals...You would see way different postings!

How is a transsexual suppose 2 feel femimine when it seems your main concern is how big her cock is or if she's fully functional?

Like I said earlier, I keep myself company with tons of girls, and I konw where you are coming from. I agree, if this was a 100% TS forum, then you would see a difference. You dont even need to go that far. Any person who is smart will see that the majority of online personals or newgroup postings are from girls who say that wnat a man who acts like a man or they want to be treated like a lady at all times. But a lot of guys are too blind to realize that. I konw soe girls who are tops, but believe me, the large majority of girls are not into that. Its more than just dick. Thats why people like shade are pissed when you say a girl looks good, her face is really trash, but her cock is big so you say she deserves a maxim cover.


I agree with a lot of what Eclipse says also. Talk to some of the girls and see hwo fucked up guys act. You would think that admirers would behave appropriately, but sometimes they are worse than the "straight" men who do the mocking in the street. And ragging on gay men is totally unneccessary. You can only call yourself a hypocrite if you can toss out all types of gay jokes to a ts. Thats the easiest way to show that you arent comfortable with who you are. A TS girl can tell if a guy is a dick from the question "So are you interested in other men?" They way you answer that question, and how it is answered, is usually enough for a girl to decide if you are ok or not.

I made friends with TSs who have friends that are gay males and I havent been bothered a bit. Just because someone is gay doesnt mean they want to hook up with you, furthermore, what they do with their partner is nobody business but theirs. Its that simple. but so many dudes try to make themselves look masculine in the presence of gay men they usually look like asses and push girls away. Or at least thats how ive been seeing it...

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

LBCDO...it seems that you and MEGA are only guys on this site with some sense!!!

2 thumbs up 4 u! :D

[LBCDO]

Thnx, i just try to be observant. A lot of people dont get to see the girls beyond the XXX sites, etc. or escort sessions, so they think that 99% are porn addicts.

[tsluver247]

I have been a TS Admirer of porn for a long while now. I have watched TS porn and been a member of grooby's many awesome TS web sites since 1999. I have been to TS Clubs, namely El Gato Negro and Club 7969 (awesome club by the way). I admit that I have contacted some TS porn stars, mainly to let them know that I admire their work and that I hope they continue to perform on film. Like I said previously, I have been to TS Clubs. I saw many TS porn stars that I have admired on film, but I simply do not have the guts to introduce myself. To be honest, I do not usually introduce myself to even genic women. I am a major introvert, but if the ice is broken I am usually an extrovert. To me, it is hard to pull the trigger to go up to someone whether a genic or TS women. Part of my problem is I do not want to lead anyone on to let them down later. For me, the internet is somewhat my means of letting out my opinions or thoughts that I would normally get to myself. I just wanted to add my comments to put a different opinion on the topic.

[ONEWORLD]

Honey, I don't know who you dated, but most of the transsexuals that I know are on the path to srs. Even the ones who don't want the surgery over time seem to change their tune...

1ST: YEAH, YOU KNOW HER...I'VE ONLY DATED A VERY SMALL NUMBER AND YOU KNOW THEM ALL...AND THEY DON'T ESCORT OR DO PORN.

2ND: MOST TRANSEXUAL ARE NOT LOOKING FOR SRS...MOST GIRLS ARE NOT SURE WHAT THE FUCK THEY WANNA DO WITH THEIR LIVES...THEY SAY THEY WANT SRS BECAUSE IT'S FASHIONABLE TO SAY THAT...THOUGH YOU DO HEAR IT MORE FROM THE YOUNGER GIRLS, AS THE OLDER GIRLS ARE MORE "OLD FASHIONED" WHEN IT COMES TO THAT ISSUE...




Now, there's probably a minority of trans out there who do like to fuck men in the ass.Escorts will say what you want to hear (not giving an disrespect to escorts: I used to be one), so I don't know how objective they can be.

CORRECTION: THEY WON'T TELL ME ANYTHING, BECAUSE I DON'T DO THAT.




One thing that Shade (perhaps in confrontational manner)mentioned is that a lot of tranny chasers rip on Gay men. Why is that so? I mean it seems intellectually dishonest to hurl about slurs when you do in secret what they have guts to admit publicly. I've had guys approach me in Gay bars and announce that they are "straight" and they immediately start ripping on Gay men (who are often personal friends).

YOU CAN BE STRAIGHT AND NOT BE HETEROSEXUAL AS STRAIGHT DESCRIBES THE WAY YOU ACT...AND TO CLARIFY, I DON'T AGREE WITH GAY-BASHING OR RIDICULE, BUT A MAN THAT DATES TG'S AND IS A STRICT TOP IS AT THE MOST "BI".

GOOD DAY :)

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

YOU CAN BE STRAIGHT AND NOT BE HETEROSEXUAL AS STRAIGHT DESCRIBES THE WAY YOU ACT...AND TO CLARIFY, I DON'T AGREE WITH GAY-BASHING OR RIDICULE, BUT A MAN THAT DATES TG'S AND IS A STRICT TOP IS AT THE MOST "BI".

GOOD DAY :)

Definately BISEXUAL but NOT STR8...

GAY MEN ARENT ATTRACTED 2 TRANNIES! THEY LIKE MEN THAT LOOK LIKE MEN!

[LBCDO]

I consider myself bisexual because i like TSs. I am a top, but Im not too good to say that if I were 100% straight Id be dating only GGs. If you put a TS in front of me naked, yes, I would become aroused. But if you were to put ummm... Brad Pitt in front of me naked, I would be FAR from sexually excited. Just doesnt do it for me. I dont have fantasies of men, hairy kisses, nappy chest or anything like that, but I enjoy a TS. So the bisexual label doesnt bother me, im content with who I am. I w ont front though, even though Ive never been topped, i have played with that "something extra before", but never penetration. Ive met girls who dont even want it touched or seen and respected it, but not many.