Interesting....

[MrFanti]

Who Is Teresa Haley? NAACP Leader Who Called Migrants 'Savages'
https://www.newsweek.com/who-teresa-haley-naacp-leader-who-called-migrants-savages-1852261

And also 'not interesting' considering all the stuff that I've heard from my Black sisters and brothers when we are in our own company.....

[filghy2]

I hope you realise this is the same sort of language that white racists apply to black people

[blackchubby38]

I hope you realise this is the same sort of language that white racists apply to black people

What it basically shows is that racism, prejudice, bigotry, or whatever word one wants to use comes in all shades of color. Case in point, this story from last year:

Former L.A. City Council president says the year since her racist remarks were leaked has been painful

www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/nury-martinez-racist-remarks-made-caused-year-pain-rcna120311

But while Teresa Haley's comments are unacceptable, this what happens when a country's immigration policy becomes "Everyone come on on in and we will figure out how to make it work later."

[MrFanti]

What it basically shows is that racism, prejudice, bigotry, or whatever word one wants to use comes in all shades of color.
Bingo!
And there are some atrocious Black on Asian crimes out there as well.....

No race can't say they aren't racist......

[Mirgofino]

The human race is one race.

[filghy2]

What it basically shows is that racism, prejudice, bigotry, or whatever word one wants to use comes in all shades of color.

Unfortunately, there has always been a tendency for people lower in the social pecking order to look for someone even lower who they can kick down at. Recent immigrants have always been a convenient scapegoat for peoples' grievances.


But while Teresa Haley's comments are unacceptable, this what happens when a country's immigration policy becomes "Everyone come on on in and we will figure out how to make it work later."

Is that an accurate characterisation? I know the Biden administration reversed some of the harsher elements of Trump's policies, but is the policy toward unauthorised immigrants really any more permissive than that which applied for a long time before Trump?

It looks like apprehensions and expulsions are at their highest levels in more than 20 years, but that fact hardly suggests there is an 'open border' policy.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/01/13/monthly-encounters-with-migrants-at-u-s-mexico-border-remain-near-record-highs/

The US has a long-running issue with unauthorized immigrants from the south. It's a bit like the war on drugs. Just as it's almost impossible to stop drugs coming in as long as there is demand for them in the US, it's also extremely difficult to stop immigrants coming in as long there is demand for their labour.

[Stavros]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/29/politicians-immigration-wrong-cheap-labour

[blackchubby38]

Is that an accurate characterisation? I know the Biden administration reversed some of the harsher elements of Trump's policies, but is the policy toward unauthorised immigrants really any more permissive than that which applied for a long time before Trump?

It looks like apprehensions and expulsions are at their highest levels in more than 20 years, but that fact hardly suggests there is an 'open border' policy.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/01/13/monthly-encounters-with-migrants-at-u-s-mexico-border-remain-near-record-highs/

The US has a long-running issue with unauthorized immigrants from the south. It's a bit like the war on drugs. Just as it's almost impossible to stop drugs coming in as long as there is demand for them in the US, it's also extremely difficult to stop immigrants coming in as long there is demand for their labour.

Anytime a country has to to take measures such as this, you can make the case that there is an open border.

Biden administration to reopen four ports of entry at southern border

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/biden-administration-reopen-four-ports-entry-southern-border-rcna131998


I talked about what's been different under the Biden Administration in another thread.

http://http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?98366-Thought-for-the-Day/page10 (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?98366-Thought-for-the-Day/page10)

There are many reasons why illegal immigrants/migrants have come across the southern border. That's not the issue. Its also not about stopping them from coming completely. Its about the number that have come across for a good part of the Biden administration and the impact that is now having on U.S. cities.

Eric Adams Is Not the Only One Fed Up with Migrant Crisis; Chicago’s Mayor Blasts Texas Governor for Flying Border-Crossers to Illinois

https://news.yahoo.com/eric-adams-not-only-one-213000952.html

Denver mayor pleads for nationally coordinated effort on migrant crisis as city nears 'breaking point'

http://www.foxnews.com/media/denver-mayor-pleads-nationally-coordinated-effort-migrant-crisis-city-nears-breaking-point

Also when it comes to apprehensions being up:

www.foxnews.com/politics/mayorkas-tells-border-patrol-agents-illegal-immigrants-released-into-us-sources

[filghy2]

None of that actually establishes that the policy has been looser under Biden than in the past. I think you linked to the wrong page in that thread as I can't see anything relevant.

The numbers coming to the border may be just a product of circumstances in the source countries. Since it signed up the the UN refugee convention the US has had an obligation to assess people's refugee status if they turn up and make a claim. This is not new. Facilities to keep people in detention while they are being assessed also have limited capacity.

The one specific thing that changed seems to be the expiry of Title 42, which was supposed to be a temporary measure to deal with COVID.
https://www.vox.com/politics/23719941/title-42-ending-border-biden-trump

[Stavros]

Anytime a country has to to take measures such as this, you can make the case that there is an open border.

Biden administration to reopen four ports of entry at southern border

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/biden-administration-reopen-four-ports-entry-southern-border-rcna131998


I talked about what's been different under the Biden Administration in another thread.

http://http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?98366-Thought-for-the-Day/page10 (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?98366-Thought-for-the-Day/page10)

There are many reasons why illegal immigrants/migrants have come across the southern border. That's not the issue. Its also not about stopping them from coming completely. Its about the number that have come across for a good part of the Biden administration and the impact that is now having on U.S. cities.

Eric Adams Is Not the Only One Fed Up with Migrant Crisis; Chicago’s Mayor Blasts Texas Governor for Flying Border-Crossers to Illinois

https://news.yahoo.com/eric-adams-not-only-one-213000952.html

Denver mayor pleads for nationally coordinated effort on migrant crisis as city nears 'breaking point'

http://www.foxnews.com/media/denver-mayor-pleads-nationally-coordinated-effort-migrant-crisis-city-nears-breaking-point

Also when it comes to apprehensions being up:

www.foxnews.com/politics/mayorkas-tells-border-patrol-agents-illegal-immigrants-released-into-us-sources (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/mayorkas-tells-border-patrol-agents-illegal-immigrants-released-into-us-sources)

I think what we are seeing here, and not just in the US, is a failure of policy and policy management.

If you look at the Forbes 400 US billionaires, it is obvious there is no shortage of money to deal with the homeless or the lack of housing, and there is plenty to expand those services which process asylum applications, so there is at a basic level no reason why thousands of people should suddenly be forced on the people of New York City, to take the prominent example.

What we are seeing is geographical dislocation being used as a weapon by those for whom liberal democracy is a threat to dictatorship, the most obvious examples being Syria’s effective expulsion of millions through Turkey to Europe, with Turkey’s connivance, the refugees from Ukraine, and from the Americas people fleeing the chaos and violence of narco states where crime rather than dictatorship determines who lives and who dies.

From this perspective, Pope Abbot and Ron DeSantis are enemies of freedom and democracy, they are deliberately undermining the rule of law because they are becoming rogue States acting in their selfish interest, shaped by a racism and hate so thick it could pave every road in those States.

But while the time has come to take away those billions and invest it in people, the question then rises, does the US have a coherent set of policies to cope with the geography of displacement, and does it have the management expertise to make it work?

Just as in the UK we see policy failure aggravated by incompetent management so I fear too many US citizens have become fed up with failing politicians more concerned to be on tv than mucking around in minute policy detail.

FDR dealt with the greatest economic crisis in the US in the 1930s, it can be done but what we all need is strong leadership and coherent policy making with the adequate funding to make it work.

So begin by taking away their billions without impoverishing them - that too can be done.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

[blackchubby38]

None of that actually establishes that the policy has been looser under Biden than in the past. I think you linked to the wrong page in that thread as I can't see anything relevant.

The numbers coming to the border may be just a product of circumstances in the source countries. Since it signed up the the UN refugee convention the US has had an obligation to assess people's refugee status if they turn up and make a claim. This is not new. Facilities to keep people in detention while they are being assessed also have limited capacity.

The one specific thing that changed seems to be the expiry of Title 42, which was supposed to be a temporary measure to deal with COVID.
https://www.vox.com/politics/23719941/title-42-ending-border-biden-trump

Here is the post that I was referring to.

I don't know what the policy should be, but it shouldn't have been this:

Biden angrily opposed lifting Trump immigration bans but caved to left’s demands: book

http://nypost.com/2023/09/05/biden-opposed-lifting-trump-immigration-bans-but-caved-to-lefts-demands/

I think the main problem is this and its brought up in the article:

[Biden] said that voters would never appreciate the difference between refugees fleeing tyranny and economic migrants from Central American. Since he was already getting pulverized on immigration, boosting the cap would just make things worse,” the book says.

Going back to the Obama administration because he had to deal with this situation too, I think word spread that if a person crosses the border illegally and asks for asylum, it will help them jump to the front of the line of the immigration process. But there is a difference between an immigrant, a migrant, and a refugee. But now it seems those differences no longer apply, along with the reasons for asylum, and we are treating everyone as if they're a refugee. When that simply isn't the case. Because let’s be honest, not all those migrants that have been coming since the beginning of the Biden administration are going to qualify for permanent residence and are going to have be sent back. Since they are spread all over the country, that’s going to be another problem.

As for the addressing the labor shortage, since the crisis began, many people have been calling for this to happen:

http://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/29/business/dealbook/ceos-new-york-migrants.html


"The C.E.O.s also said that immigration control was “clearly” a federal issue, siding with Hochul in calling for federal funding for educational, housing, security and health care services for migrants.

They also supported Hochul’s and Adams’s requests for faster processing of asylum applications and work permits, since newly arrived migrants must otherwise wait 180 days before they can work legally."

But still no word from the federal government if this will happen.

While I believe in freedom of movement within a country and between them, there should be some restriction of movement when it comes to country’s borders. By no means am I saying, “Build the Wall”. Just fix the patches that already exist.

[filghy2]

I'm not saying the situation doesn't need to be improved, but the problem seems to caused by arrival numbers exceeding the capacity of the system rather than anyone deciding to have an open borders policy. I agree there needs to be an increase in resources, both to process applications more quickly and to meet demands for services. I guess the problem is how to get something through the Republican HoR.

It's not clear what you are saying on the refugee cap - are you criticising Biden for lifting Trump's cap or for resisting doing so?

No use linking to NYT articles, btw. They used to let non-subscribers read a small number of articles but nowadays I can't read any.

[Stavros]

I ask, because I do not know, what city or state in the US can be said to be run efficiently, to have a low crime rate, affordable housing, schools parents believe are good for their children, health services that meet the people’s needs, and politicians the people respect? Do any of them have a humane policy toward immigrants with measures in place to accommodate them and integrate them into the workforce?

Or is this a daft question because all politics in the US is failing?

[filghy2]

While I believe in freedom of movement within a country and between them, there should be some restriction of movement when it comes to country’s borders. By no means am I saying, “Build the Wall”. Just fix the patches that already exist.

It looks like there is a possible deal to address the border problem, but Trump and his allies want to torpedo it to help his election chances.
https://www.vox.com/politics/2024/1/25/24050278/senate-immigration-border-ukraine-trump-mcconnell-romney

Biden should have done more earlier to fix the problem when he had a majority in both houses, but if there's no improvement in the next few months you have to blame Trump.