Nashville School Shooting

[Fitzcarraldo]

Yet another school shooting:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/nashville-christian-school-shooter-appears-former-student-police-chief-rcna76876

Apparently the perpetrator was trans. This will really stir up the transphobia.

[filghy2]

Every mass shooter has a different story behind their grudge, but they all have one thing in common - they can easily get hold of a gun.

[anonymous123]

Every mass shooter has a different story behind their grudge, but they all have one thing in common - they can easily get hold of a gun.
If Democrats actually did their job. These would be less of an issue

[Stavros]

If Democrats actually did their job. These would be less of an issue

Democrat President Obama tried to reform gun law after the Sandy Hook massacre -who opposed it? Republicans. In Texas and Florida, run by Republicans, Gun-Crazy Greg and Gun-Crazy Ron relaxed laws on the sale of firearms and the right to carry, and thus enabled the shooters at Parkland High, and in Uvalde.

More than this, the bullets used are not the kind you see in the movies when someone shot digs them out with a knife. These new bullets explode into thousands of fragments inside the body, which is why in Uvalde, bullets entering a child literally shredded the body, leaving only the trainers as a means of identification.

Who enables this horror? Republicans. Who will not put a stop to gun-crazy Americans with a passionate need to kill other Americans? Republicans. Until you people get a grip of this epidemic, you will continue to read about mass murder, and it really doesn't matter if the shooter is male, female, trans, Muslim, or just plain bat-shit crazy -the enabling mechanism is there.

[filghy2]

If Democrats actually did their job. These would be less of an issue

Please explain - in proper sentences if you can manage that.

[MrFanti]

And even if all guns were banned, the ugly truth is that guns would still come through the border like kids candy and cocaine.....
It's a tough situation....

[drfunyc]

It is sad there will always be guns there is no way to get them all out, hell there are still tons of guns all over Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, and Aussie and New Zealand. But the hard fact is 90 % of the 130 Mass Shootings in the last year came from legally acquired guns in middle america. I am from Texas and grew up around guns and I have lived in NYC for the last 20 years and my opinion is there is alot of middle american bravado. In Texas we would always just told to suck it up and be a stalwart. That was meant to be like a badge of honor, you dont hurt women, steal from others, but we expect the same in return. There was always some sort of violence and bullying but not to the degree it is happening in todays society. There has been a massive break in Causality. The cause and effect is so different now I cant even grasp it. The amount of hate these people are feeling towards just general society is heart breaking. The victims are nameless to them, they just want to cause damage. These are things that I dont understand. I am open on this forum and with friends and family. The only thing that makes sense to me is this, We only get one of these life's to live and in an amazing theory we should be able to walk through this life together, and it doesnt matter if you feel like you wanna live you life in a dress, pants, drag, if we are only given one we should beable to do it however we see fit. And the key word is we, as long as we keep trying to call each other by 1000 different names that is us being 1000 types of humans that we are apart. I know that sounds far fetch but hell I hope in my life time I can see us refer to to the world as we rather than us, them, they, black, white, etc etc
my two cents

[MrFanti]

It is sad there will always be guns there is no way to get them all out, hell there are still tons of guns all over Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, and Aussie and New Zealand. But the hard fact is 90 % of the 130 Mass Shootings in the last year came from legally acquired guns in middle america. I am from Texas and grew up around guns and I have lived in NYC for the last 20 years and my opinion is there is alot of middle american bravado. In Texas we would always just told to suck it up and be a stalwart. That was meant to be like a badge of honor, you dont hurt women, steal from others, but we expect the same in return. There was always some sort of violence and bullying but not to the degree it is happening in todays society. There has been a massive break in Causality. The cause and effect is so different now I cant even grasp it. The amount of hate these people are feeling towards just general society is heart breaking. The victims are nameless to them, they just want to cause damage. These are things that I dont understand. I am open on this forum and with friends and family. The only thing that makes sense to me is this, We only get one of these life's to live and in an amazing theory we should be able to walk through this life together, and it doesnt matter if you feel like you wanna live you life in a dress, pants, drag, if we are only given one we should beable to do it however we see fit. And the key word is we, as long as we keep trying to call each other by 1000 different names that is us being 1000 types of humans that we are apart. I know that sounds far fetch but hell I hope in my life time I can see us refer to to the world as we rather than us, them, they, black, white, etc etc
my two cents
Since I'm still in Texas, I understand what you're saying 100%.
Problem is, the change of mindset (towards anything, not just guns) starts out in the home.....

Per my previous post, here's a sad statistic.
2,000 Illegal Weapons Cross US-Mexico Border Per Day: Report
https://insightcrime.org/news/analysis/2000-illegal-weapons-cross-us-mexico-border-every-day/

So once all guns are banned, then what? - How do you stop 2000+ guns a day from crossing our borders? (a number that's sure to increase due to the Cartels)

[drfunyc]

There is no way to stop it, and even if you could most of the gun manufacturers are in America so even if you try to take them people will build them.
I grew up in the dirt in West Texas at a Pig Farm, I had good days and bad days in school. There were times I dated the pretties girl in school and then she hated me so then I was bullied by the football team endlessly but my mindset never went to these people have to die, or even worse let me sit on this for 20 years and go kill a bunch of random people at a school I went to 25 years ago. Hell my revenge was showing up to the high school reunion with a serious career a stunner of a girl friend, debt free and happy
Not with an assault riffle . I am not saying the way that I was brought up was perfect but I was taught three things, Honor, Empathy, and Forgiveness. I think this current generation is hell bent on upstaging one another. When I played baseball and tennis and college, there was hazing but it was lets get em drunk play some pranks and shit that would cost you your dignity for a day. When you see that getting someone drunk and writing on their face in permenant marker so that they had a hell of a time walking around campus isnt good enough anymore. Some of these kids are stuffing pine cones up other kids asses and even killing some of the kids you are suppose to be trusting. I think there is a fundamental break in the mindset and I agree it most likely starts at home. As I stated I grew up in the dirt, no technology, we were outdoors everyday around people. Lots of people and maybe that is why I respected people more is because of how much contact I had with them rather face down in a cell phone ignoring the world. Then hell who knows the only thing you remember bad happening to you is went you werent online living in a fiction. Still as weird as I am I could just never imagine trying to take something from someone else. Dont get me wrong I have been in some trouble with fights but it was mostly watching out for a friend that was smaller than me

[filghy2]

It is sad there will always be guns there is no way to get them all out, hell there are still tons of guns all over Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, and Aussie and New Zealand.

That is not true. There are far more guns per person in the USA than almost anywhere else in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_co untry

As to the argument that they will always come in from Mexico, where do people think those guns in Mexico originated from? Mostly they were manufactured in the US.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/07/1103445425/much-of-firearms-traffic-from-the-u-s-to-mexico-happens-illegally

Could the people who say it's all too complicated and nothing can be done please explain why it is that other countries don't have anywhere near the same rate of mass shootings as the USA? Other countries have mostly been able to control the problem, even though they also have their share of mentally disturbed people.

Nobody is saying that gun controls will completely eliminate the problem - and the fact that there are already so many guns in the country makes it harder - but surely it is common sense that there will be less of these shootings if every disturbed or angry person can't just walk into a gun store and buy any gun they want?

[Castor_Troy05]

Ever more https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1846494525

[Fitzcarraldo]

The solution to the problem of too many guns can't be to add more guns.

By all accounts I've seen, the police did a stellar job in this situation. They got to the scene quickly, went right in, and took care of the shooter. But there are still six dead innocents.

Universal background checks, restricting sales of certain types of firearms, ammunition, and accessories can help make it less mind-numbingly easy for anyone holding a grudge to rack up a body count. And that is not the same as "taking guns away."

[drfunyc]

I agree with all that, the most armed civilian countries in the world are, 1. USA, 2. Russia, 3. Mexico, 4. South America in general
My thought is that there is something brewing in America hate wise that is scary, all these other countries have guns, granted not to the extent of America but there is some kind of resentment slash contentment towards were our society is going and it is garnering death now rather than hate. We are the only country that this is happening with. I would be fine if I never saw a gun again in my entire life to be honest they play no role in my day to day in nyc. It sucks that where we are now we cant get a gun out of an anger persons hands, or a mentally ill persons hands cause probably 60% go undiagnosed. I am basically just stating that when I was growing up alot of the same things were happening and there was alot of hate and misunderstanding, but what is coming up now seems to only be dealing in escalations, which is well if shooting up a school doesnt prove my point next is gonna be a bomb and so on and so forth.

[drfunyc]

I agree the police went in there like Hero's, they had very little info and for most accounts were undermanned for the job but they went in fast to try and stop further violence. So hats off I cant even imagine what that would be like to run into that building or even to be the partner of the officers for the next coming weeks cause they are gonna have some damage

[filghy2]

My thought is that there is something brewing in America hate wise that is scary, all these other countries have guns, granted not to the extent of America but there is some kind of resentment slash contentment towards were our society is going and it is garnering death now rather than hate.

There's two likely explanations that come to mind.

1. Many mass shootings are hate crimes motivated by resentment toward some minority group (eg blacks, Jews, Muslims, LGBT). We know where that is being generated from. These prejudices obviously exist in other countries, but nowhere else have have they been mainstreamed into a major political party.

2. Compared to other countries, the USA provides very little support for people who run into difficulties. They are basically left to their own devices, and some of them crack up and direct their anger toward hurting other people.

[drfunyc]

I can see what you are saying but why is it reaching an all time high now. I would have thought that when racism, homophobia, bigotry where at there height we should have seen more of this in 60's-90's
it is reaching a head now that is worrisome. And there is very little public assistance for people that are barely clearing the poverty line unlike countries that provide health care.
Everything just feels different even in NYC, the last altercation I had to get into was because a random guy tried to push another random guy in front of a subway car, luckily the guy was able to brace himself and he and I took the guy down and waited for police. He had no reason what so ever. They had never met etc. But that is just one person wanting to kill another person for no reason. This city used to be great but now crime is up like crazy and there are certain scenarios where you are going home and it is scary.
I cant pin point it but I do believe alot of the rage is coming from the instant access to social media and news ( reliable or not ) and combined with the huge influx of videos of corrupt police and politicians it is acting like a powder keg
people feel justified lashing out violently and indescriminately, because that is what has been happening to them for years with no way of fighting back. All of it is sad greatest nation suppose to be free but here we are cop tyrants and mass murders. Dont get me wrong the majority of the police forces do an amazing job and I am behind them 100% but there are some special ones out there that just blow my mind in the worst way possible

[Stavros]

Universal background checks, restricting sales of certain types of firearms, ammunition, and accessories can help make it less mind-numbingly easy for anyone holding a grudge to rack up a body count. And that is not the same as "taking guns away."


This is the key post. If Americans can't or won't repeal the 2nd Amendment, you can ban certain types of gun, and also the ammunition that explodes inside the body. You can impose restrictions, you can take away the means. How American society deals with the manipulation of sectarian loathing, most of it for political benefit, I don't know. That said, if you revived the Fair Broadcasting principles that Murdoch persuaded Regan to abolish in 1987, Fox and the other channels would be legally obliged to balance one viewpoint with another. Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper would not be able to say anything unchallenged.

Obama on his trip to Australia yesterday argued that Americans have lost a 'shared conversation'. He is right. It is time to stop whining, shouting and accusing, and ask what we should all ask, be it the US, UK, Russia or Nigeria -How can we make this place better? Let's talk about it. And tell the truth when doing so.

[GroobySteven]

And there is very little public assistance for people that are barely clearing the poverty line unlike countries that provide health care.


I cant pin point it but I do believe alot of the rage is coming from the instant access to social media and news ( reliable or not ) and combined with the huge influx of videos of corrupt police and politicians it is acting like a powder keg
people feel justified lashing out violently and indescriminately, because that is what has been happening to them for years with no way of fighting back. All of it is sad greatest nation

Some great points here. Social media and the ability to give instant retorts, and get into an echo chamber platforms and enables those who feel there are no other options to act outside of the internet.
I've been coming to the US since I was 18 - yet I've never seen any people turn so ugly like the American people seem to be to each other in the last 24 months. From car parks, to shopping, to just getting into other people's business, racism, bigotry, anti-any other country, driving, each time I come back, it gets worse. These are broadstrokes - and it seems to be between strangers but at the same time costs are spiralling (in a normal supermarket in California a dozen eggs are $8 ($4-5 in UK), a loaf of bread $4-5 ($2 in UK) and rent has increased 15% each year. Add to this the media (right and left) adding fuel to the fire, then there is a powder keg about to explode.

I've been saying for years that I'd see US split or a state cede in my lifetime, and never has that seems more necessary and likely than now.

[GroobySteven]

A big problem in my opinion, is that American's are constantly taught and given a feedback loop that the US is 'the Greatest Country in the world'. It's bullshit, it never was. Most countries believe that. It's cringy and bewildering to have to see people stand before every sports game for the National Anthem (for what?), and the chant 'U-S-A, U-S-A' heard anywhere outside of a sports arena is embarressing.

There is nothing wrong with patriotism - but when the expectations and promises of the greatest country don't match the reality. When the house with the white picket fence is a shitty apartment taking 35% of you income, when the promise of a job doesn't match up, and when you can't get the wife (or the sex) that everyone else seems to be having (at least according the sit-coms and soap operas) then something is going to break.

[Nikka]

taylor swift???

[Stavros]

Some great points here. Social media and the ability to give instant retorts, and get into an echo chamber platforms and enables those who feel there are no other options to act outside of the internet.
I've been coming to the US since I was 18 - yet I've never seen any people turn so ugly like the American people seem to be to each other in the last 24 months. From car parks, to shopping, to just getting into other people's business, racism, bigotry, anti-any other country, driving, each time I come back, it gets worse. These are broadstrokes - and it seems to be between strangers but at the same time costs are spiralling (in a normal supermarket in California a dozen eggs are $8 ($4-5 in UK), a loaf of bread $4-5 ($2 in UK) and rent has increased 15% each year. Add to this the media (right and left) adding fuel to the fire, then there is a powder keg about to explode.

I've been saying for years that I'd see US split or a state cede in my lifetime, and never has that seems more necessary and likely than now.

There have been highs and lows in American history, and in time those committed to the ideals of 1776 have regained control of the political system, and preserved the US as an Open, Liberal Democracy.

So the question now is, can the US heal its self-inflicted wounds? It has the capacity to do so, though the landscape looks bleak right now. In 2020 Republicans in charge of elections maintained the integrity of the process, we cannot be sure that newly elected officials will do so in 2024.

The most depressing aspect of the trends since the 1990s, has been the extent to which truth and facts have become merely opinions, which for science is an insult. If your washing machine breaks down, you don't call the Dentist. So on what basis do people with zero knowledge insist that vaccinations don't work, or even are harmful; or that Climate Change is a hoax? The denial of the real events that took place on January 6th takes this rejection of reality to a new low.

The ignorance is stunning. The US has achieved phenomenal things of global value in Medicine, Science, Engineering, Architecture, Philosophy, Music, Literature, Art, Cinema and much more, yet those in the penumbra of Trump talk as if American history is merely a history of betrayal. As Mark Antony might have put it, in the throes of the death of the US -'the evil men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones'.

The rule of law shaped by reason, is now to be shaped by religion -contrary to what the Revolution demanded. The denial of the role played by Race in the evolution of the US culminates in book bans, and a refusal to discuss the facts, and punishment for those who do, as if Florida had become a satellite of the USSR.

But, the Supreme Court was clearly out of touch with majority opinion on Roe vs Wade. Americans do care about the environment, they do care about standards in public life, and want better services. so all is not lost.

But how long will it take before people realize what a failure autocrats are, and re-affirm their belief in Liberal Democracy- Or is America doomed?

[auratus]

How long before you realise the right to bear arms is so antiquated in todays society that you actually need to take long hard deep look at your constitution and actually have the balls and guts to change it so one day its not your son, daughter, niece, nephew, grand child or great grand child that is killed in one of these school shootings it took 1 in the UK to change the law and not one since the laws were changed any responsible gun owner should not fear change but should acknowledge it or is having the right to bear arms worth more than a childs life

[filghy2]

Yet another school shooting:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/nashville-christian-school-shooter-appears-former-student-police-chief-rcna76876

Apparently the perpetrator was trans. This will really stir up the transphobia.

The usual suspects are at it
https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/3/29/23660580/nashville-shooting-conservatives-anti-trans-statements

[filghy2]

How long before you realise the right to bear arms is so antiquated in todays society that you actually need to take long hard deep look at your constitution and actually have the balls and guts to change it so one day its not your son, daughter, niece, nephew, grand child or great grand child that is killed in one of these school shootings it took 1 in the UK to change the law and not one since the laws were changed any responsible gun owner should not fear change but should acknowledge it or is having the right to bear arms worth more than a childs life

The problem is that one side of politics has made a fetish of guns - witness the number of Republicans with family photos of them holding guns. It's beyond rationality. None of these people can provide a logical argument for why people need military assault weapons or why it's unreasonable to have proper background checks on gun buyers.

Also, the US political system is pretty much designed to thwart the will of the majority so that its very hard to change things. In other countries when the majority supports tighter gun controls it happens.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Also, the US political system is pretty much designed to thwart the will of the majority so that its very hard to change things.

The majority didn't support racial integration or gay marriage rights.

[Stavros]

The majority didn't support racial integration or gay marriage rights.

a) according to whom?
b) integration meaning what -general, in schools? It is a difficult one. That said, these links suggest you might want to re-assess your comment.

Record-High 70% in U.S. Support Same-Sex Marriage (gallup.com) (https://news.gallup.com/poll/350486/record-high-support-same-sex-marriage.aspx)

"Broadly speaking, people like the idea of diverse and integrated schools. When asked, “How important is it to you that the public schools in your community have a mix of students from different racial/ethnic backgrounds?” 84 percent of respondents said it was somewhat, very, or extremely important to them, while only 16 percent indicated that it was not so important or not important at all."
School Integration Is Popular. We Can Make It More So. (tcf.org) (https://tcf.org/content/commentary/school-integration-is-popular-we-can-make-it-more-so/)

[anonymous123]

The problem is that one side of politics has made a fetish of guns - witness the number of Republicans with family photos of them holding guns. It's beyond rationality. None of these people can provide a logical argument for why people need military assault weapons or why it's unreasonable to have proper background checks on gun buyers.

Also, the US political system is pretty much designed to thwart the will of the majority so that its very hard to change things. In other countries when the majority supports tighter gun controls it happens.

First it's not Republicans or 2a loving people causing these problem. It the way the Democratic party has caused violence to grow and actually promotes it. How they cheer people destroying cities, looting and causing police harm. DA in cities are so soft on crime and don't really prosecute them for the crime that they did. Also, what makes you think the Democrats who allow cities to continuously be riddled with crime. Actually care about fixing students getting shot.

Secondly, the Democratic party is dividing this country against each other. How if you go against abortion, LGBTQ community, black people to name a few. They call you racist, fascist, bigot, white supremacist and many other names. Because if you don't go along with what they are pushing. You're the most disgusting human being and nobody goes against Democrats

Third, everything with the Democrats is not actual fixes or plans to make things better. It's basically push our agenda or take your rights away. Then if it doesn't work we take more of your rights away or we blame other people for why it didn't work.

Finally, Republicans are at fault for many issues we have in this country. A lot of their decisions have also caused this country issues and problems. Yet the Democrats in the past 3 years have had more control than the Republican party. Have made more decisions and changes in this country. Have led this country in a certain direction and look at the state of it now. I'm not for either party and don't support either

[Fitzcarraldo]

a) according to whom?
b) integration meaning what -general, in schools? It is a difficult one. That said, these links suggest you might want to re-assess your comment.

Record-High 70% in U.S. Support Same-Sex Marriage (gallup.com) (https://news.gallup.com/poll/350486/record-high-support-same-sex-marriage.aspx)

"Broadly speaking, people like the idea of diverse and integrated schools. When asked, “How important is it to you that the public schools in your community have a mix of students from different racial/ethnic backgrounds?” 84 percent of respondents said it was somewhat, very, or extremely important to them, while only 16 percent indicated that it was not so important or not important at all."
School Integration Is Popular. We Can Make It More So. (tcf.org) (https://tcf.org/content/commentary/school-integration-is-popular-we-can-make-it-more-so/)

I said "didn't," not "don't." Both your links are from after the fact. Attitudes have changed, thanks in large part due to the Supreme Court requiring school integration (even though it took well over a decade to be implemented fully) and legalizing gay marriage.

[Fitzcarraldo]

First it's not Republicans or 2a loving people causing these problem. It the way the Democratic party has caused violence to grow and actually promotes it. How they cheer people destroying cities, looting and causing police harm. DA in cities are so soft on crime and don't really prosecute them for the crime that they did. Also, what makes you think the Democrats who allow cities to continuously be riddled with crime. Actually care about fixing students getting shot.

Secondly, the Democratic party is dividing this country against each other. How if you go against abortion, LGBTQ community, black people to name a few. They call you racist, fascist, bigot, white supremacist and many other names. Because if you don't go along with what they are pushing. You're the most disgusting human being and nobody goes against Democrats

Third, everything with the Democrats is not actual fixes or plans to make things better. It's basically push our agenda or take your rights away. Then if it doesn't work we take more of your rights away or we blame other people for why it didn't work.

Finally, Republicans are at fault for many issues we have in this country. A lot of their decisions have also caused this country issues and problems. Yet the Democrats in the past 3 years have had more control than the Republican party. Have made more decisions and changes in this country. Have led this country in a certain direction and look at the state of it now. I'm not for either party and don't support either

Pretty much everything you said there is the opposite of reality.

[Stavros]

I said "didn't," not "don't." Both your links are from after the fact. Attitudes have changed, thanks in large part due to the Supreme Court requiring school integration (even though it took well over a decade to be implemented fully) and legalizing gay marriage.

I understand your correction, but not why, having said 'didn't not don't' you did not update the data yourself, as you could have done. I suspect it was because you wanted to imply a lack of popular judgment on segregation and same-sex marriage. I have endorsed previous posts of yours, so I am reluctant to be 'hyper'-critical, but I do feel you could have done better here.

[Stavros]

Finally, Republicans are at fault for many issues we have in this country. A lot of their decisions have also caused this country issues and problems. Yet the Democrats in the past 3 years have had more control than the Republican party. Have made more decisions and changes in this country. Have led this country in a certain direction and look at the state of it now. I'm not for either party and don't support either

I am not an American so I observe from afar. I think the problem with your post, is that a) it does not distinguish policy-making in the Senate from the House, and b) it does not account for the differences in policy in States run by Democrats or Republicans.

Further, it seems to me that the Republican Party claims to be 'Conservative' but is a party of Change, ie not Conservation, and that it does not share the values of the Revolution of 1776. The extent to which the Party opposed the freedom of the people to choose their President did not climax on January 6th, but in the outrageous denial that followed that what happened that day was an Insurrection against the United States of America, as defined by the Constitution.

It is a pity the Democrat Party has been so tame in the last few decades, but has had to confront a divided Congress where bi-partisan compromise is now seen as either surrender or betrayal. Until you Americans address the vicious sectarian nature of your politics and the corruption of Secular Values by States you will not be able to heal yourselves, you will be in a situation today, where regardless of the slaughter of children in Uvalde, Texas, or Nashville, Tennessee, Republicans will make it easier than it was before to purchase battlefield weapons and kiddy-shredder ammo, whose sole purpose is to murder Americans.

[Fitzcarraldo]

I understand your correction, but not why, having said 'didn't not don't' you did not update the data yourself, as you could have done. I suspect it was because you wanted to imply a lack of popular judgment on segregation and same-sex marriage. I have endorsed previous posts of yours, so I am reluctant to be 'hyper'-critical, but I do feel you could have done better here.

My statement had nothing to do with you. You jumped on my statement about how the majority didn't support integration or gay marriage. There was a lack of popular judgment when the Court decreed that those things should happen. I was replying to filghy2's comment that our country is "designed to thwart the will of the majority." Doing that isn't always a bad thing. Our system is full of checks and balances to thwart mob rule.

I explained what my statement meant. What data was there for me to update?

I lived through integration. I went to elementary school through high school in the first city in the country to have forced busing. (My class was the first to graduate with 12 years of it.) It actually worked very well there.

[blackchubby38]

www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/nashville-shooters-gun-purchases-could-have-been-blocked-and-werent/

[broncofan]

www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/nashville-shooters-gun-purchases-could-have-been-blocked-and-werent/ (http://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/nashville-shooters-gun-purchases-could-have-been-blocked-and-werent/)
James Holmes, the Colorado shooter, was seeing a psychiatrist and had a psychotic disorder. Jared Loughner, who shot Gabby Giffords, had schizophrenia and it was obvious to everyone at the community college he went to. An emotional disorder can mean a lot of different things including depression. It is very hard to block someone from owning a gun when you have to have an adjudication that they are mentally defective. This is far from the first case where the person in question could have been found to have major mental health problems and while Hale should not have owned a gun, perhaps such guns should not be sold at all and other guns should be harder to get for everyone, especially those with major psychiatric problems.

[filghy2]

The majority didn't support racial integration or gay marriage rights.

Sorry, what point are you making in relation to this issue? I'm pretty sure the majority of Americans do support tighter gun controls along the lines you've already mentioned. Your examples don't disprove my point about legislative change being very difficult, even when most voters are in favour.

[filghy2]

How they cheer people destroying cities, looting and causing police harm. DA in cities are so soft on crime and don't really prosecute them for the crime that they did.

How is that relevant to the issue of mentally disturbed people being able to get hold of guns? These mass killers almost invariably get killed by police. How exactly is tougher sentencing or whatever going to make a deter people who don't care whether they die, if they are thinking rationally at all?

Are you actually saying nothing should be done to stop these people buying mass-killing weapons because it's all the fault of Democrats?

[filghy2]

My statement had nothing to do with you. You jumped on my statement about how the majority didn't support integration or gay marriage. There was a lack of popular judgment when the Court decreed that those things should happen. I was replying to filghy2's comment that our country is "designed to thwart the will of the majority." Doing that isn't always a bad thing. Our system is full of checks and balances to thwart mob rule.

I get that you don't want the legislature to be able to remove certain fundamental rights, but relying on the courts rather than the legislature to achieve change does not seem desirable. As we are seeing now, a powerful Supreme Court is two-edged sword.

If the status quo was basically fine it might be okay that change is difficult, but when there are major problems I think it becomes a fundamental weakness.

[broncofan]

I'm sure this point has been made in this thread but I'll make it again. The US has many more mass shootings than other western countries. How is the US different from these countries? They all have video games. They all have people with mental health problems. They all have divisions in society including by social class. Every society has its share of hateful people and political rabblerousing.

But other countries don't make it anywhere near as easy to buy military style weapons. And every time there's a mass shooting we hear a different excuse from the one Republicans made the last time.

Other countries don't have organizations and lobbyists standing in the way of even common sense gun reforms who threaten civil war if they don't get their way. Gun culture in the U.S. is primitive, it's creepy, and it's both a cause of and caused by a deep-seated hatred of others. Who sees a Christmas picture of a politician's family posing with weapons of war and doesn't think something is very, very wrong?

[MrFanti]

I'm sure this point has been made in this thread but I'll make it again. The US has many more mass shootings than other western countries. How is the US different from these countries? They all have video games. They all have people with mental health problems. They all have divisions in society including by social class. Every society has its share of hateful people and political rabblerousing.

But other countries don't make it anywhere near as easy to buy military style weapons. And every time there's a mass shooting we hear a different excuse from the one Republicans made the last time.

Other countries don't have organizations and lobbyists standing in the way of even common sense gun reforms who threaten civil war if they don't get their way. Gun culture in the U.S. is primitive, it's creepy, and it's both a cause of and caused by a deep-seated hatred of others. Who sees a Christmas picture of a politician's family posing with weapons of war and doesn't think something is very, very wrong?
I was just watching NETFLIX's high score where they were discussing the violence of some 80s video games....

Interesting point because bans don't really work.....Case in point is drugs and alcohol.
Virtually every country is now legalizing a lot of previously banned drugs because it was impossible to uphold - USA being last in doing so.
We tried to ban marijuana = FAIL
We tried to ban alcohol = FAIL
And like alcohol bootleggers during prohibition and marijuana and cocaine coming across our borders, guns will come across with them....

Raise our kids differently, and we'll see real change.
Raise them to accept everyone for who they are.
Raise them to understand guns and knives aren't the answer.
Raise them to understand that excessive drugs and alcohol use isn't the answer.

[filghy2]

And every time there's a mass shooting we hear a different excuse from the one Republicans made the last time.

We also get a different excuse from Mr Fanti. Apparently, bans won't work but a bunch of homilies will fix the problem.

Oddly enough, gun restrictions seem to work pretty well in most other countries.

[broncofan]

We also get a different excuse from Mr Fanti. Apparently, bans won't work but a bunch of homilies will fix the problem.
He's gonna raise everyone's kids to understand guns and knives aren't the answer. That's a lot of kids and a lot of adoptions but if he's able to do it then father of the year.

[broncofan]

We tried to ban marijuana = FAIL
Maybe don't ban all drugs or all guns. How about just the most dangerous ones? We're not going to make heroin legal for recreational use are we? No. We can ban assault weapons. Yes, making something illegal creates black markets. But it would still be harder to get a black market gun than one from the local store. This is especially true for an isolated person who may act on impulse. But I don't know. Maybe you raising everyone's kids is the easier solution.

[Stavros]

He's gonna raise everyone's kids to understand guns and knives aren't the answer. That's a lot of kids and a lot of adoptions but if he's able to do it then father of the year.

How is that going to work in Florida where Stalin De Santis doesn't think pupils should discuss Race and Slavery, where books are banned, the word 'Gay' is banned? Given that Florida is making it easier to purchase firearms and kiddy-shredding ammo, the last thing this American is going to do is expect schools to educate children =who is indoctrinating whom?

[GroobySteven]

Pretty much everything you said there is the opposite of reality.


Agreed. He sucks on the tit of Fox News by the sound of it, athought this quote is pure gold.


"Secondly, the Democratic party is dividing this country against each other. How if you go against abortion, LGBTQ community, black people to name a few. They call you racist, fascist, bigot, white supremacist and many other names. Because if you don't go along with what they are pushing. You're the most disgusting human being and nobody goes against Democrats"

If you are anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ and anti black people ... I've news for you. YOU ARE a racist, fascist, bigot supremacist!!!

Your post has to be a parody, or are you really that backwards?

[MrFanti]

He's gonna raise everyone's kids to understand guns and knives aren't the answer. That's a lot of kids and a lot of adoptions but if he's able to do it then father of the year.
Put guns off the table and let's talk TRANS ACCEPTANCE.
Once again, that starts out in the home with parents educating their kids to be tolerant about all people.

It all starts out in the home....

[MrFanti]

Maybe don't ban all drugs or all guns. How about just the most dangerous ones? We're not going to make heroin legal for recreational use are we? No. We can ban assault weapons. Yes, making something illegal creates black markets. But it would still be harder to get a black market gun than one from the local store. This is especially true for an isolated person who may act on impulse. But I don't know. Maybe you raising everyone's kids is the easier solution.
Again, take guns off the table and lets talk TRANS ACCEPTANCE
Where does this begin?
Once again, in the home.....

For the older generations, acceptance is tougher thing to bring about - I know this as a Black American.
But kids are easier to teach acceptance than adults.....

[MrFanti]

Addendum:
I'm all for a gun ban...
However, when I look at success reality of previous bans (drugs/alcohol) coupled with what's coming through at the border - I just don't know how effective it would be.
Would it put a dent in killing? Yeppers!

But we have to reduce the demand which once again starts with educating youth....

[filghy2]

I'm all for a gun ban...

Would it put a dent in killing? Yeppers!

So what was the point of your previous 500 posts resisting the idea?

[Fitzcarraldo]

Addendum:
I'm all for a gun ban...
However, when I look at success reality of previous bans (drugs/alcohol) coupled with what's coming through at the border - I just don't know how effective it would be.
Would it put a dent in killing? Yeppers!

But we have to reduce the demand which once again starts with educating youth....

What kind of gun ban? You'd have to repeal the Second Amendment to get rid of them completely, and that's not going to happen in any foreseeable future in this country. The Supreme Court has now said that gun bans (as in Chicago and New York) are unconstitutional. We had an assault weapons ban before, and that could be revived, but not with a Republican majority in the House. I suppose assault weapons could be banned at the state level, but that will only work in blue states currently. It'd be a start, but much more needs to be done.

Republicans like to blame shootings on mental health, but they won't fund mental health treatment, and they won't deny guns to the mentally ill. And they also think that forcing teachers to be armed bodyguards for minimal pay with no training will prevent school shootings, so that shows where they are in regard to mental health.

[filghy2]

Once again, that starts out in the home with parents educating their kids to be tolerant about all people.

It all starts out in the home....

Your brilliant plan seems to rely on intolerant parents being willing to bring up their kids to be tolerant.

[filghy2]

What kind of gun ban?

This is what he said previously, though as I noted he has expressed numerous positions at different times.


I'm okay with a ban on assault weapons but not a complete gun ban.

[anonymous123]

Pretty much everything you said there is the opposite of reality.

How so then?

[anonymous123]

I am not an American so I observe from afar. I think the problem with your post, is that a) it does not distinguish policy-making in the Senate from the House, and b) it does not account for the differences in policy in States run by Democrats or Republicans.

Further, it seems to me that the Republican Party claims to be 'Conservative' but is a party of Change, ie not Conservation, and that it does not share the values of the Revolution of 1776. The extent to which the Party opposed the freedom of the people to choose their President did not climax on January 6th, but in the outrageous denial that followed that what happened that day was an Insurrection against the United States of America, as defined by the Constitution.

It is a pity the Democrat Party has been so tame in the last few decades, but has had to confront a divided Congress where bi-partisan compromise is now seen as either surrender or betrayal. Until you Americans address the vicious sectarian nature of your politics and the corruption of Secular Values by States you will not be able to heal yourselves, you will be in a situation today, where regardless of the slaughter of children in Uvalde, Texas, or Nashville, Tennessee, Republicans will make it easier than it was before to purchase battlefield weapons and kiddy-shredder ammo, whose sole purpose is to murder Americans.


The Republican party speaks about being for freedom, Liberty, the constitution, the Bill of Rights and anything and everything in between. They act like there the freedom fighters but at the end fall flat on their face. There are so many Rino's in the Republican party like Mitch McConnell, Mitt Romney, lisa murkowski, Brian Fitzpatrick and many others. Who win elections as Republicans but don't really support conservatism or the Republican party.

Secondly, the reason that we have issues in Washington DC (US CAPITAL) is because the Republican party and the Democratic party. Have two ways of governing this country. The Republicans want one way and the Democrats won another. Yet when the Republicans passed something that the Democrats can't go against. They scream and yell about how heinous and terrible it is. Then when the Democrats passed something the Republicans can't go against. They screaming yell about how heinous and terrible it is. Nobody in Washington as a whole party wants to work together to make United States better.

Finally, the guns are not the problem with this country's violence. Mental illness, dividing this country, soft on crime and no security are the problems! As I've said before, there are people in power who have been promoting and applauding violent activities. There are people in power like district attorneys who do not prosecute criminals and or support cops to go after criminals. If you look at big cities like Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Portland, Washington, DC and many other big cities. Cities. Every single day there is violent crimes and people dying without a blink or a care by the mayors or DA's of that city. And these major cities are heavily ran by Democrats.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Spoken like a true bot.

[Mirgofino]

In countries where it is almost impossible to get access to a gun, or other weapons, like for instance Japan, the crime rate is so much lower than countries like U.S.A.
It seems so obvious that it is so. Remove the possibility to get access to guns and other weapons and you remove the option to react in a violent, and deadly, way. If dialogue is not an option in some cases, then the option of leaving the "conversation" in peace should be the next.

[Stavros]

[QUOTE=anonymous123;2068495]

The Republican party speaks about being for freedom, Liberty, the constitution, the Bill of Rights and anything and everything in between. They act like there the freedom fighters but at the end fall flat on their face. There are so many Rino's in the Republican party like Mitch McConnell, Mitt Romney, lisa murkowski, Brian Fitzpatrick and many others. Who win elections as Republicans but don't really support conservatism or the Republican party.

- The American Revolution of 1776 was a Liberal Revolution, and thus poses problems for those who call themselves Conservatives.

In 1776 this meant supporting the retention of British America as a Colony of the British Empire, but clearly the definition has changed since then.
I suggest that what defines a Conservative in terms of 1776 is a belief that Govt should be limited, taxes and regulations either low or even non-existent. Now look at what happens when the Conservatives are in office, because they might cut taxes (Reagan, GW Bush, Trump) and lift regulations (Trump), but it is not clear that most Americans benefit from these measures. In some cases, eg East Palestine, they suffer.
Politicians love power, so when they have it they are reluctant to let it go -thus Ron De Santis in Florida imposes bans on textbooks in schools, even the use of words, as in 'Don't Say Gay' because of their sexual content -is the Holy Bible also a banned text? Plenty of sex and violence there!
Far from Conserving individual liberties, he is interfering with them in pursuit of another agenda. For Conservatives want to conserve policies that Liberal America has dumped -if not Slavery, then Segregation, conserving the Confederacy in all but name and a few details. The Religious element to Conservatism seeks to conserve the censorship of the Hays Code, and the laws that made Homosexuality illegal. They are seeking to roll back every Liberal policy adopted since 1954, but in doing so, cannot thereby defend the aims of the Constitution as a Liberal Document.

Secondly, the reason that we have issues in Washington DC (US CAPITAL) is because the Republican party and the Democratic party. Have two ways of governing this country. The Republicans want one way and the Democrats won another. Yet when the Republicans passed something that the Democrats can't go against. They scream and yell about how heinous and terrible it is. Then when the Democrats passed something the Republicans can't go against. They screaming yell about how heinous and terrible it is. Nobody in Washington as a whole party wants to work together to make United States better.

-You have a two party system which may create sectarian divisions, between and within the parties. But bi-partisan legislation is possible, such as the Violence Against Women Act of 1994, and the Disability Integration Act of 2019 sponsored by Democrats and Republicans. Newton Gingrich was a pioneer of sectarian politics which damns everything the opposition wants as 'Anti-American' so that Compromise, essential in an adversarial system like the US, becomes Surrender, or even Betrayal. If you then create a Personality Cult that would embarrass even Stalin, you have the Trump phenomenon, where L'état, c'est moi makes any disagreement a form of treason. Give it some thought, I mean, Trump?

Finally, the guns are not the problem with this country's violence. Mental illness, dividing this country, soft on crime and no security are the problems! As I've said before, there are people in power who have been promoting and applauding violent activities. There are people in power like district attorneys who do not prosecute criminals and or support cops to go after criminals. If you look at big cities like Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Portland, Washington, DC and many other big cities. Cities. Every single day there is violent crimes and people dying without a blink or a care by the mayors or DA's of that city. And these major cities are heavily ran by Democrats.

-Guns kill people, that is what they are designed for, or to intimate and wound, just as the bullets guns use these days explode inside the body -shoot a six-year old and the walls and the floor will be splattered with their remains. And if it is the case that mental illness is the primary cause of mass murders, then why give lunatics the weapons they need to kill?

Here, is the miserable truth, that Republicans literally don't care who gets the guns, or what the consequences are, lifting all restrictions that might at least on some occasions prevent the crime taking place. I regret to say it but only in a deeply sick society is this volume of weapons of human destruction welcomed, not opposed.
America’s gun lobby counts major legislative victories after Nashville. Republicans shrug off reform (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/america-gun-lobby-counts-major-230428843.html)

[MrFanti]

In countries where it is almost impossible to get access to a gun, or other weapons, like for instance Japan, the crime rate is so much lower than countries like U.S.A.
It seems so obvious that it is so. Remove the possibility to get access to guns and other weapons and you remove the option to react in a violent, and deadly, way. If dialogue is not an option in some cases, then the option of leaving the "conversation" in peace should be the next.
And the weapons (drugs) are hard to get as well for a number of reasons.
1) No huge border "leaks" like the USA
2) Japanese parents educate their kids at an early age that drugs/guns are not the way....thereby reducing the 'demand'...

[filghy2]

Well Canada has a long border with a country awash with guns. It has long had much stronger gun controls that the US (which were further tightened last year) and it has a much lower rate of gun deaths. That suggests that geography is no barrier to addressing the problem - it's just a question of political will.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-bans-new-handgun-sales-imports-latest-gun-action-2022-10-21/

[filghy2]

If Democrats actually did their job. These would be less of an issue


Secondly, the reason that we have issues in Washington DC (US CAPITAL) is because the Republican party and the Democratic party. Have two ways of governing this country.

Why do you? Keep breaking once sentence into two?

[Fitzcarraldo]

Well Canada has a long border with a country awash with guns. It has long had much stronger gun controls that the US (which were further tightened last year) and it has a much lower rate of gun deaths. That suggests that geography is no barrier to addressing the problem - it's just a question of political will.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-bans-new-handgun-sales-imports-latest-gun-action-2022-10-21/

It also has a tiny, dispersed population, though. Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are big. That's pretty much it.

[filghy2]

It also has a tiny, dispersed population, though. Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are big. That's pretty much it.

Gun homicides per 100,000 population are 4.46 in the US against 0.52 in Canada. So the average American is 9 times more likely to be shot dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

[MrFanti]

On a side note looks like Japan has a problem with sexual violence:
Young sexual abuse victims in Japan most often assaulted at school: gov't study
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220620/p2a/00m/0na/021000c

Japan poised to raise age of consent from 13 in overhaul of sexual offence laws
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/21/japan-poised-to-raise-age-of-consent-from-13-in-overhaul-of-sexual-offence-laws

47.3% of those who experience sexual violence in Japan stay quiet, survey finds
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/06/17/national/sexual-violence-cabinet-survey/

I suppose one could make an argument that this behavior dates back to at least their WW2 atrocities against other Asian cultures....

[Stavros]

On a side note looks like Japan has a problem with sexual violence:
Young sexual abuse victims in Japan most often assaulted at school: gov't study
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220620/p2a/00m/0na/021000c

Japan poised to raise age of consent from 13 in overhaul of sexual offence laws
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/21/japan-poised-to-raise-age-of-consent-from-13-in-overhaul-of-sexual-offence-laws

47.3% of those who experience sexual violence in Japan stay quiet, survey finds
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/06/17/national/sexual-violence-cabinet-survey/

I suppose one could make an argument that this behavior dates back to at least their WW2 atrocities against other Asian cultures....

A thread on gun violence in the USA prompts a post on sex in Japan?

So what about your country?

Child marriage in the United States - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States#:~:text=In%20A labama%2C%20a%2074%2Dyear,25%2C%20and%2031%20in%20 2001.)