African Musk: Not a Fragrance

[Stavros]

I see that the shit-eating Trump Monkey Elon Musk has finalized his purchase of 'Twitter' at four times its value. He has done it, wait for this: 'for humanity', a claim that would be preposterous were it not in common with his other grandiloquent statements, such as his justification for spending billions of dollars on getting people to inhabit Planet Mars: if humans are to survive, they must become a multi-planet species. (not a direct quote, I haven't checked).

What absolute tosh. Not so much Total Recall as Total Bunk. Humans are based on Planet Earth for a simple reason: life here is possible. You can breathe the air, drink the water, grow food. In the tv series on Musk one of his employees or former employees at Tesla claims a series of nuclear blasts on Mars will release the riches of the planet sub-surface, which along with the claim a million -or is it a billion people (white people, presumably)- will live there is beyond lunacy. Would it even be legal?

Brian Cox, an English physicist/cosmologist produced a programme that imagined what it would be like to be on the range rover on Mars, yet both he and Musk need only head down to the Atacama Desert in Chile if they want to know what life on Mars will be like, only they can at least breathe the air. Why won't they do it?

House people on Mars, but not the homeless of Los Angeles. What a waste of money!

I don't know what will happen to Twitter, and I don't much care, only that it be liable for prosecution- or is Twitter to be above the law? 'Absolute free speech' we are told, is what Musk wants, and there are plenty of Twitter accounts that glorify the Nazi's and the Holocaust -all of which is illegal in Germany and successfully erased from social media platforms, according to the BBC news today. Does Musk think Nazi's should be free to air their views? Maybe he wants to give Putin 'a chance' to 'set the record straight', much as some would like his Dad Errol to be more transparent about the family wealth which Elon claims he had no access to. Just as even more want to know how much tax-payer's money subsidized the 'self-made' Billionaire.

Spray it on, if you like the smell. To me, it stinks.

[rodinuk]

Twitter - concerns yes of course but the rest of your piece ffs get a grip.... watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPZOIFbtbig

[filghy2]

So what's the premise here - mankind won't be able to manage a shift away from fossil fuels to keep this planet habitable but we will be able to manage a mass migration to Mars and work out how to survive there?

[Stavros]

Twitter - concerns yes of course but the rest of your piece ffs get a grip.... watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPZOIFbtbig

Ok it was a bit over the top, but I enjoyed writing it. When a man walks into the billion-dollar company he has just bought carrying a sink, it's because he thinks he is both funny and clever, and he is neither. It makes him look like a fool who has been parted from his money, but as someone pointed out in The Guardian today, when a man reaches the level of wealth Musk has, but is not lauded as the Greatest Genius in the World, he must do what he can to shape the public view of him -that he is indispensable to mankind, a visionary, above all, important.

An engineer once told me that once you master the basics, space travel is impressive, but not as impressive as the Mardi Gras Pipeline network in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico. It is perhaps ironic that the issues of survivability in space are also met in the deep ocean, on a planet we live on, which contains multiple inputs to the ocean ecology and more general environment that makes life here possible, desirable and welcome.

It is of no interest to Musk because I don't think he is that interested in the Planet he lives on, but I accept he likes things. And things that make money. And that is about it, really. And who is going to give up life on Earth for a distant planet from which they can never return? Some weirdos, mostly white people -does Musk really think the goat and camel herders from the Sahel to the Empty Quarter, or the illiterate peasants of Central America are going to go and live on Mars? Come on, let us for once have a sane debate about what matters, because of space exploration we can say, Nice to have, not need to have.

[rodinuk]

I suspect you're part of the British pysche that likes to knock people down whereas I'm part of those who prefer to build them up.

What is it you want? Would you prefer it if Musk had never lived at all? Do you not want people who have at least some vision in trying to find solutions for the future? It's not about what's impressive it's that he can deliver - reusable rocketry saving billions for example.

I would think he would have no trouble finding people to live on Mars especially if life deteriotates here. Tell me why there couldn't be an Earthbound space transport back to Earth? They're not marooned there afaik. Are engineers and scientists, adventurers, pioneers just weirdos to you?

I hate to break it to you but Musk probably isn't considering camel herders and illiterate peasants as townsfolk on Mars.

If you want a sane debate try keeping it real.... that's what matters

[Stavros]

You make a fair point, as someone I used to know complained I always saw the negatives in things. To which I would say my hostility is based on what I perceive as a lack of honesty on Musk's part, and a misplaced perception of what matters most. I do understand the vision thing, the role that pioneers have played across a wide range of activities in science, medicine, the arts and often the pain and loss it caused, and I do understand the fascination with Space and how much we have learned about the Universe over the centuries. I probably feel cool or hostile to people who make themselves the focus of what they are doing.

Whatever Musk has achieved he did not achieve alone, certainly not in financial terms, and his stunts, like the sink, to me suggest a man with an ego that one either finds fun, or just plain silly- I take the latter view. I am not sure too what it is that he has created -even in the case of the more admirable Bill Gates, he did not make Microsoft on his own, but did start it from nothing, and it has had a more transformative impact on our lives than anything Musk has done, so far. And then I guess some will argue Microsoft got big by swallowing or destroying the opposition, but that's business. So to me, Musk in business is more like Trump than Gates and suffers because of it.

The engineering is indeed impressive, but as I argued above, it is not as impressive as the Mardi Gras Pipeline network. And in the long term we know we don't need rockets, except to carry weapons of human destruction, and to put satellites into orbit, and in time, we won't need deep water pipelines.

[Fitzcarraldo]

That didn't take long:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/elon-musk-new-owner-twitter-tweets-unfounded-conspiracy-theory-paul-pe-rcna54717

[filghy2]

That didn't take long:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/elon-musk-new-owner-twitter-tweets-unfounded-conspiracy-theory-paul-pe-rcna54717

Will his content moderation policy be applied to his own tweets?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/28/elon-musk-twitter-moderation-council-free-speech

[filghy2]

I would think he would have no trouble finding people to live on Mars especially if life deteriotates here. Tell me why there couldn't be an Earthbound space transport back to Earth? They're not marooned there afaik. Are engineers and scientists, adventurers, pioneers just weirdos to you?

It still seems disingenuous to me. Elon Musk made his fortune selling EVs to people who cared enough about the planet to spend $$ on reducing carbon emissions. Without that, none of his other projects woud have been possible.

Now he supports a political movement that denies there is any problem and claims that we can't move away from fossil fuels because it will be too costly and disruptive. But never mind, he says, if the earth becomes uninhabitable I can sell you a ticket to another planet for even bigger $$.

Even if the technological challenges can be overcome, it's sure to be a very expensive option that will be feasible for only wealthy people. Moreover, it makes no sense from a societal viewpoint because shifting away from fossil fuels would be far less costly and disruptive than moving to another planet.

[broncofan]

He bought twitter because he wanted to promote the idea of "free speech" on a privately owned platform. The problem is that the platform is subject to market pressures and companies don't want to be associated with the kinds of ideas he thinks were unjustly deprived of dissemination. The following are groups of people who feel disenfranchised. It will be interesting to see whether he can actually invite all of them back without having all of twitter's sponsors leave or be subject to boycotts:

-anti-vaxxers. Musk himself said in early 2020 that he thought "coronavirus panic is dumb". Here we are millions of deaths later.
-People who promote dangerous views that get people killed (like injecting bleach) or ineffective treatments. They were booted bc they're nuts and have no place in a civilized conversation. He thinks the best ideas will win out if only you let cranks and nazis in on the conversation? The problem is that these people are more prolific than scientists and historians and more convincing to people who know nothing.
For people who believe there's no such thing as truth, popularity determines right and wrong. Some people think if you see someone inject himself with bleach and die bc he thinks it treats covid, that's good evidence it's a dumb idea and dangerous to disseminate.
-Nazis and racists. The people his biggest fans think he'll bring back to twitter include literal nazis and racists.
-People spreading misinformation to discourage others from voting. The people championing him feel disenfranchised bc they're not able to tell demographics they don't like (they often target black people and latinos) that the election is on the wrong day. Anyone can fall for their lies but given they're Republicans they're fairly certain most minorities don't want to vote for their asses.
-spreading election fraud theories intended to get people to literally wage war against their elected leaders because they believe the type of stuff that fascists promote and stupid people believe.

Is it a shock that this guy was spreading lies about a politician's husband who is 82 and was beaten with a hammer? It really isn't. This is the kind of stuff he is trying to normalize. The idea that Elon Musk is very intelligent is in a losing battle against the reality of Musk expressing himself.

[filghy2]

To be clear, I'm not suggesting anyone should pass a law to stop this project or that nobody should be spending money on space travel. I just don't think we should be celebrating him as some great contributor to humanity.

It may be possible to separate a person's achievements from their politics when the two are unrelated, but I don't see how it is possible then they are clearly at odds; ie someone claiming to be a man of science supporting a political party that is anti-science.

[Stavros]

I don't know the answer to the question, there might not be one, but what makes the best CEO of a large corporation?

Some time ago there was some report or analysis that suggested Psychopathic tendencies make for the best bosses, but I am not sure. If it is about making ruthless decisions for the good of the firm, then maybe.

On the other hand, I would suggest the CEO who is prepared to delegate decision making to more junior staff, who is Collegiate in the way he or she operates, who doesn't spend more time in the Media than the office, is a more effective leader.

In this context, I am not sure how Collegiate Musk is. Watching the tv programmes on him on the BBC, I get the impression he sacks people who disagree with him, or don't meet his targets, even if they are not realistic. One former executive involved in bringing forth one of the EV's was moved to tears when recounting how the workers exhausted themselves to get the latest model into the showroom, but I wondered why if the vehicle would have made it a week later and that mattered, though it mattered to Musk. Again, compare Sir Philip Green with some other CEO's in the UK, and it is not hard to see how and why he profited handsomely while the firm he ran collapsed.

Looked at historically, not many firms survive 100 years. Can Twitter survive? I don't know. But I recall around 20 years ago people were talking of the 'MySpace Generation' when it was all the rage -until it disappeared. Facebook -or Meta- dominates, but will it still be around in its present form in 10 or 100 years time? And who is the best or the worst -Zuckerberg or Musk?

[Fitzcarraldo]

It still seems disingenuous to me. Elon Musk made his fortune selling EVs to people who cared enough about the planet to spend $$ on reducing carbon emissions. Without that, none of his other projects woud have been possible.

Now he supports a political movement that denies there is any problem and claims that we can't move away from fossil fuels because it will be too costly and disruptive. But never mind, he says, if the earth becomes uninhabitable I can sell you a ticket to another planet for even bigger $$.

Even if the technological challenges can be overcome, it's sure to be a very expensive option that will be feasible for only wealthy people. Moreover, it makes no sense from a societal viewpoint because shifting away from fossil fuels would be far less costly and disruptive than moving to another planet.

He made his fortune before that, via PayPal.

[Stavros]

He made his fortune before that, via PayPal.

Zip2 before Paypal, and note the comments people made on Musk as a businessman -

"In 1995, Musk, his brother Kimbal, and Greg Kouri founded Zip2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip2).[41] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-42)[42] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-43) Errol Musk provided them with $28,000 in funding.[43] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-44) The company developed an Internet city guide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_guide) with maps, directions, and yellow pages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_pages), and marketed it to newspapers.[44] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-45) They worked at a small rented office in Palo Alto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_Alto),[45] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-shower-46) Musk coding the website every night.[45] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-shower-46) Eventually, Zip2 obtained contracts with The New York Times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times) and the Chicago Tribune (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tribune).[46] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-47)[unreliable source? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources)] The brothers persuaded the board of directors to abandon a merger with CitySearch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CitySearch);[47] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-48) however, Musk's attempts to become CEO were thwarted.[48] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-49) Compaq (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq) acquired Zip2 for $307 million in cash in February 1999,[49] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-50)[50] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-51) and Musk received $22 million for his 7-percent share.[51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-Vance109-52)
X.com and PayPalMain articles: X.com (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com), PayPal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal), and PayPal Mafia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal_Mafia)
Later in 1999, Musk co-founded X.com (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com), an online financial services and e-mail payment company.[52] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-53) X.com was one of the first federally insured (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Deposit_Insurance_Corporation) online banks and over 200,000 customers joined after its initial months of operation.[53] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-54) Even though Musk founded the company, investors regarded him as inexperienced and replaced him with Intuit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuit) CEO Bill Harris by the end of the year.[54] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-vance86-55)
In 2000, X.com merged with online bank Confinity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confinity) to avoid competition,[45] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-shower-46)[54] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-vance86-55)[55] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-56) as Confinity's money-transfer service PayPal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal#History) was more popular than X.com's service.[56] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-57) Musk then returned as CEO of the merged company. His preference for Microsoft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft) over Unix (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix)-based software caused a rift among the company's employees, and led Peter Thiel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel), Confinity's founder, to resign.[57] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-58) With the company suffering from compounding technological issues and the lack of a cohesive business model, the board ousted Musk and replaced him with Thiel in September 2000.[58] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-59)[b] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-62) Under Thiel, the company focused on the money-transfer service and was renamed PayPal in 2001.[60] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-vance89-61)[61] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-63)
In 2002, PayPal was acquired by eBay (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay) for $1.5 billion in stock, of which Musk—the largest shareholder with 11.72% of shares—received $175.8 million.[62] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-64)[63] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-65) In 2017, more than one and a half decades later, Musk purchased the X.com domain from PayPal for its sentimental value.[64] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-66)[65] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-67) In 2022, Musk discussed a goal of creating "X, the everything app".[66] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#cite_note-68)".
Elon Musk - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#Zip2)

[filghy2]

He sold his interest in Zip2 for $22 million, and then Paypal for $176 million, which gave him the start to buy into other things. However, most of his net worth - recently estimated at $210 billion - comes from his interest in Tesla. That interest is currently worth around $120 billion, but it was much higher a year ago.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11365793/Elon-Musk-net-worth-Twitter-add-Tesla-CEOs-riches.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2022/10/21/elon-musks-fortune-has-fallen-by-more-than-100-billion-in-less-than-a-year/?sh=615aea303ea4

I see he has described himself as Chief Twit, so he does get some things right.

[filghy2]

I don't know the answer to the question, there might not be one, but what makes the best CEO of a large corporation?

Some time ago there was some report or analysis that suggested Psychopathic tendencies make for the best bosses, but I am not sure. If it is about making ruthless decisions for the good of the firm, then maybe.

A major study a few years ago found four key behaviours associated with successful CEOs.
1. Making decisions quickly and decisively.
2. Engaging with stakeholders to get buy-in.
3. Adapting proactively to a changing environment.
4. Being reliable and predictable.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/01/what-analysing-5-million-leaders-told-us-about-succeeding-as-a-ceo

Elon Musk appears to have shortcomings on at least two of these.

[Fitzcarraldo]

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/31/1132906782/elon-musk-twitter-pelosi-conspiracy

[Fitzcarraldo]

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/open-season-lgbtq-people-far-right-celebrates-liberation-twitter-rcna54542

[Fitzcarraldo]

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/are-elon-musks-right-hand-men-twitter-s-lot-men-rcna55136

[Stavros]

How secure is Twitter's business strategy? It seems to me that it cannot raise enough revenue from subscriptions to be profitable, which makes it dependent on advertising, a business model that has worked for Facebook/Meta with the additional 'services' that Meta/Facebook has been able to monetize. A recession is never good for advertising, which I think makes Twitter vulnerable, on top of which Musk must pay compensation which will run into the millions on top of the interest payments incurred with the price he paid. It might survive in the long term, but if users desert Twitter and the advertising doesn't come through, I guess Twitter will fold. And if a less moderated platform becomes the vehicle of choice for the extremists, who will want to be part of it other than the fringes?

[Fitzcarraldo]

How secure is Twitter's business strategy?

Obviously Musk is going to apply his own strategy. He eliminated the board and is having massive layoffs of staff. His plans are unclear. I think this is a case of the dog catching the car.

[filghy2]

Obviously Musk is going to apply his own strategy. He eliminated the board and is having massive layoffs of staff. His plans are unclear. I think this is a case of the dog catching the car.

He did try to get out of the deal, so I guess he figured out it wasn't likely to be a winner. It doesn't say much for his business acumen that he didn't do better due diligence before making his bid.

Apart from cost-cutting, it looks like his strategy will include charging users for various things (possibly including adult video content). Good luck that. Most of the TS videos I've seen on Twitter are just teasers for their subscription sites on Only Fans, etc.
https://www.vox.com/recode/23440075/elon-musk-twitter-layoffs-checkmark-verification

[Stavros]

The link Fitzcarraldo gave to Musk's partners in twitter, suggests a group of people who have become rich by taking early mover advantage in the Social Media sector that emerged after the dot.com boom ended. To them, Social Media appears to be a money-making scheme made in some Computer Geek's heaven -create a Platform 'everyone' wants to be on -or, for example, 'every young person' (this seems to be Tik-Tol at the moment), and the advertisers will flock to it with wads of cash, the partnership is sealed, and the process 'from concept to cash' is perfected. And if the Platform doesn't evolve, like MySpace, then something else will come along to replace it.

What these guys also have in common is not so much a healthy disrespect for Government, as no respect all. Deluded from their own success that they don't need Government, and with minimal attitudes to regulation of content, it is no wonder what political support they give is to people who don't believe in the legacy of 1776, and for these reasons may be part of the trend in the US which could see the Union become so fractured and dysfunctional as to have no meaning, paving the way for an end to traditional politics, and rule by 'entrepreneurs' and ultimately, a Tyrrell-style Corporation to dominate over all, but not Musk.

And you thought Blade Runner was a movie?

[Fitzcarraldo]

Apart from cost-cutting, it looks like his strategy will include charging users for various things (possibly including adult video content).

Protecting free speech ... for $8/month.

[broncofan]

I don't see how it can work. He wrote a tweet today saying he's laying people off because twitter is losing 4 million a day (I don't know how he comes to that figure). Then he said advertisers are cutting ties with twitter and it's because the media has vilified him. He's behaving like a clown and it will be interesting to see how much of the 44 billion he invested gets flushed down the toilet.

I read that it will cost about 1 billion dollars per year to meet borrowing costs for his acquisition. Operating income in 2021 was 220 million. Cash flow a bit better than that but this will be fun to watch.

[broncofan]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rashishrivastava/2022/11/02/elon-musk-has-twitter-bills-to-pay-but-charging-for-a-blue-checkmark-wont-be-enough/?sh=7c65243c7169

[Fitzcarraldo]

I don't see how it can work. He wrote a tweet today saying he's laying people off because twitter is losing 4 million a day (I don't know how he comes to that figure). Then he said advertisers are cutting ties with twitter and it's because the media has vilified him. He's behaving like a clown and it will be interesting to see how much of the 44 billion he invested gets flushed down the toilet.

I read that it will cost about 1 billion dollars per year to meet borrowing costs for his acquisition. Operating income in 2021 was 220 million. Cash flow a bit better than that but this will be fun to watch.

It's pretty hilarious until you think of all the Twitter employees who have lost and will lose their jobs.

[broncofan]

It's pretty hilarious until you think of all the Twitter employees who have lost and will lose their jobs.
At first I thought he was firing these people was out of spite because they had in some way undermined his vision of pure free speech. Now I see that it's part of his business strategy but I don't think it will work.

Twitter brings in a lot of ad revenue every year. You look at their operating costs every year and they are pretty significant. He figured he could keep the revenue and that all of these people he's firing are really superfluous. I think he's going to find out that's not true.

The other thing is that he is realizing he can't possibly keep his promise about free speech and he's already reneged on it. Advertisers and lots of users with a high profile will leave if he allows the type of speech he claimed he would. People are already mocking him by making obnoxious false claims about him and others as satire and it's clear if this vision of his were actually realized you'd have complete babble.

If he wants to keep his advertisers, he can't allow high profile users to disseminate false information or engage in racist incitement. The article I linked talked about how only a fraction of blue checks have to pay to keep their check mark for it to add another revenue stream. The problem is I think few people will go for it and if you take away the blue checks of people who are already verified they will leave bc you're allowing people to impersonate them.

[Stavros]

If he wants to keep his advertisers, he can't allow high profile users to disseminate false information or engage in racist incitement.



The problem is that only some advertisers will not want to be associated with Twitter under its new boss if he relaxes moderation. And more than this, are the Billionaires who support Trump and his lies and don't need Twitter anyway.

Take Peter Thiel -

"Peter Thiel, the billionaire tech financier who is among those leading the charge, once wrote, (https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian/) “I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.”
Thiel is using his fortune to squelch democracy. He donated $15m to the successful Republican Ohio senatorial primary campaign of JD Vance, who alleges that the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s immigration policy has meant “more Democrat voters pouring into this country (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/08/jd-vance/jd-vances-ad-about-open-border-and-immigrant-voter/).” ".
America’s billionaire class is funding anti-democratic forces | Robert Reich | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/23/americas-billionaire-class-is-funding-anti-democratic-forces)

Or Doug Logan-

"“The Deep Rig” repeatedly quotes Doug Logan, the C.E.O. of Cyber Ninjas, a Florida-based company that consults with clients on software security. In a voice-over, Logan warns, “If we don’t fix our election integrity now, we may no longer have a democracy.” He also suggests, without evidence, that members of the “deep state,” such as C.I.A. agents, have intentionally spread disinformation about the election."
The Big Money Behind the Big Lie | The New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/08/09/the-big-money-behind-the-big-lie)

And then the Claremont Institute-

"The donations flowing into Claremont illustrate that although the group’s full-throated support for Trump and fixation on election crimes may be extreme, they’re not fringe views when they have the backing of influential conservative funders. “Were it not for the patronage of billionaire conservatives and their family foundations, the Claremont Institute would likely be relegated to screaming about its anti-government agenda on the street corner,” says Kyle Herrig, president of government watchdog group Accountable.US."
Conservative Donors Bankrolled Pro-Trump Think Tank Behind Jan. 6 Lies – Rolling Stone (https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/devos-bradley-claremont-trump-election-fraud-insurrection-1274253/)

Having billions is not enough, they want absolute power as well. What are they afraid of? Democrats taxing them to death? Seriously?

Who cares if Twitter goes? Something else will replace it, and someone else will make billions.

[filghy2]

The problem is that only some advertisers will not want to be associated with Twitter under its new boss if he relaxes moderation.

His problem is that he can't afford to lose any of the existing revenue base. It looks like he made an impulsive decision to bid for Twitter because he wanted to pose as a free speech hero, without thinking it through.

I think IT investors are a lot like gamblers who bet on different ventures in the hope that at least one of them will be hugely profitable. Most of these investors fail, but we only hear about the ones who succeed. These people are over-confident types in the first place, and when they succeed they become convinced of their own genius, as do many other people.

Once you make a fortune the dice are heavily loaded in your favour, especially in the US. You can mostly avoid income tax, and money buys political influence and connections with other wealthy people. You can afford to have some failures, and still remain a rich and powerful celebrity. In the worst scenario for Musk he will still be filthy rich and gets to pose as a martyr to woke elites who hate free speech.

[Fitzcarraldo]

I don't understand why anyone (let alone Musk himself) thought it was a good idea for Elon Musk to buy Twitter. He tried to back out of it. They should have let him. He was sued, and the government forced him to go through with it. We really need to refresh (and enforce) our antitrust regulations. The richest man in the world shouldn't control a large portion of our access to space, an auto manufacturer, and one of the biggest social media outlets.

[broncofan]

https://twitter.com/PhilJamesson/status/1588924424400433152?s=20&t=Z3LYHXWtiACuR6igkViXYQ

So I thought this was well done. But Musk is making a fool of himself. You have to actually look at his tweets to see how dim he really is. He says he wants twitter to be the most accurate source of information. Then he falls for and responds to a fake Voltaire quote that was written by a Neo-Nazi.

[filghy2]

I don't understand why anyone (let alone Musk himself) thought it was a good idea for Elon Musk to buy Twitter. He tried to back out of it. They should have let him. He was sued, and the government forced him to go through with it.

I don't think it was the government. The Twitter board took Musk to court to force him to go through with the previously agreed deal. The board is legally obligated to act in the financial interests of the existing shareholders, so if someone offers way more than the market vaue of shares it's hard for them to refuse.

[broncofan]

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589447828505784320?s=20&t=79-rKnoD8AFKtDGQcCJxmA

he can't be serious here. this is not a coherent idea of what truth is. He wants lies that gain traction.

filghy, i didn't follow the negotiations which were somewhat publicized. but what's kind of funny about it is that i think the board initially wasn't crazy about him buying. But they have fiduciary duties, he had the money or could raise it, and once he was legally bound they really had an obligation to enforce the purchase agreement.

[Fitzcarraldo]

I don't think it was the government. The Twitter board took Musk to court to force him to go through with the previously agreed deal. The board is legally obligated to act in the financial interests of the existing shareholders, so if someone offers way more than the market vaue of shares it's hard for them to refuse.

He had to buy it to avoid a trial:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/06/musk-seeks-to-stop-oct-17-trial-date-to-close-twitter-deal-on-original-terms.html

[Stavros]

There is a rumour Musk is thinking of buying Liverpool -I assume the Football Club, not the City....

[filghy2]

The pretence of political neutrality has been discarded completely now.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/02/musk-gop-twitter-moves-00071758
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/02/musk-leak-twitter-hunter-biden-files-00072015

I wonder if he has figured out that making his Twitter takeover a financial success is a lost cause: having trashed his own reputation as a technocratic business genius the only future is to become a right-wing cultural hero.

His creditors must be nervous now. I assume the loan is secured on his Tesla shares, but the price of those has fallen by half since the start of this year.

[filghy2]

Useful article analysing the Twitter Files and the efforts of Musk and his collaborators to use them to promote disinformation about a non-existent conspiracy.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/12/twitter-files-explained-elon-musk-taibbi-weiss-hunter-biden-laptop.html

[broncofan]

His creditors must be nervous now. I assume the loan is secured on his Tesla shares, but the price of those has fallen by half since the start of this year.
Tesla is now trading at $122.15, which gives it a market cap of 382 billion dollars. That's more than 60% off its high at around a trillion. The stock currently has a p/e ratio of around 37. That implies net income last year was something like 10 or 11 billion dollars.

Twitter will likely not have positive cash flow and may require cash infusions to run in the long term and pay its debt (as you say some of musk's tesla shares are pledged as collateral). Tesla does actually make money but while a pe ratio of 37 is not stratospheric, it prices in some growth. Nobody wants a yield of 3% for a risky equity investment.

There's no law that says tesla's net income can't shrink. While the market for electric cars will grow a lot, other companies will be offering their models and I'm sure plenty of people won't want to buy teslas because Musk is a shrill conspiracy theorist. He's definitely not a genius, but unless he's unusually dumb he should still have tens of billions of dollars when he's done damaging tesla's brand and sinking money into twitter.

[filghy2]

There has definitely been a tendency in the technology area for first movers to not retain their market dominance. That seems to be happening with EVs as they become more mainstream. https://www.vox.com/recode/2022/12/22/23521519/tesla-electric-vehicles-milestones-ira-biden

I guess Musk can keep Twitter going as a loss-maker for some time, possibly with help from like-minded billionaires or foreign interests who find him a useful idiot. It serves his purposes as a narcissist and right-wing troll, and it's hard to see him getting as much attention if he wasn't running Twitter.

[broncofan]

There has definitely been a tendency in the technology area for first movers to not retain their market dominance. That seems to be happening with EVs as they become more mainstream. https://www.vox.com/recode/2022/12/22/23521519/tesla-electric-vehicles-milestones-ira-biden

I guess Musk can keep Twitter going as a loss-maker for some time, possibly with help from like-minded billionaires or foreign interests who find him a useful idiot. It serves his purposes as a narcissist and right-wing troll, and it's hard to see him getting as much attention if he wasn't running Twitter.
I agree 100%. Layered on top of the problem of other companies making electric vehicles he decided he wanted to make such polarizing statements that the half of the US more likely to buy his cars find him to be repellent (and he's strongly associated with the brand even if he stepped down as ceo). Even without alternatives, this was incredibly damaging.

We've seen it with other new technologies that the trailblazers can get outcompeted by the second-generation technology. Sometimes the second generation has an improved feature. Sometimes it's more compatible with whatever other products or services it would use. The barriers to entry for other automakers are falling.

I also think you're right about twitter. A billion dollars a year in interest is a lot but both the company and its owners have deep pockets. He can abandon it if it becomes too costly (corporate bankruptcy or sell his shares if they have any value with the debt financing assumed by the buyer). I don't know what Tesla's worth but it still has real value.

[filghy2]

I agree 100%. Layered on top of the problem of other companies making electric vehicles he decided he wanted to make such polarizing statements that the half of the US more likely to buy his cars find him to be repellent (and he's strongly associated with the brand even if he stepped down as ceo). Even without alternatives, this was incredibly damaging.

The interesting question is why the same guy making such bad decisions now was successful earlier. Maybe Tesla's success had more to do with its employees, but at least he had the sense to give them the resources they needed and not interfere in destructive ways.

He seems to be a psychologically needy person who craves uncritical praise. While he was getting praise from liberals for developing EVs he was happy to play the bipartisan, which was also good business sense. But at some point ego got the better of judgement and he started to reveal his true inclinations.

Taking over Twitter was evidently the tipping point because criticism from liberals increased. The only way he could get the uncritical affirmation he needs has been to double down on appealing to the right. I think these psychological needs will have more influence on his future actions than will financial factors.

It seems to very hard for the ultra-rich to be ruined in the US, unless they they get caught in a spectacular fraud like Sam Bankman-Fried. Even if their businesses go bankrupt and the default on debts they can still walk away with massive assets and keep up the pretence of being a great success (see Trump, Donald).

[broncofan]

It seems to very hard for the ultra-rich to be ruined in the US, unless they they get caught in a spectacular fraud like Sam Bankman-Fried. Even if their businesses go bankrupt and the default on debts they can still walk away with massive assets and keep up the pretence of being a great success (see Trump, Donald).
Two differences between Bankman-Fried and Trump are the type of assets they invested in and their class of victims. Bankman-Fried (a complete fraud) owned an asset class that as you've mentioned doesn't have much in the way of intrinsic value. Assuming Trump has not been honest in loan applications, banks still have an incentive to refinance to try to get back what they can. There's also some complicity by banks, who are supposed to be sophisticated and did not perform due diligence, even though they are regulated entities and insured, meaning there's also some element of moral hazard in their decisions to loan to him. He can be prosecuted whether banks want him to or not but it's harder when the immediate victim isn't vocal about being misled. In real estate, unless you have been way too aggressive or completely incompetent, it's hard not to get a decent amount of money out of properties. But your point is right...for people who have a lot of money and decent contingency planning, it's easy to protect your assets from multiple failed ventures.

I haven't followed Musk's career but my sense is that he started with more money than 99+% of people and had a childlike, grandiose interest in new technologies. His investment in them made him an unbelievable fortune but doesn't make him a genius. His problem is he wants to be regarded as such. Yesterday Tesla released end of the year financials. The earnings grew 40% year over year, falling short of the analyst expected 50%. At the beginning of the year the stock had a pe ratio of like 100, making an investment in it a 1% yield. Even with a 50% growth rate you can't justify the investment bc in the early years the yield is very bad and by the time the yield is better bc of earnings growth, the pe drops to that of a mature company bc earnings cannot grow indefinitely (or for an infinite period faster than the market it operates in). The price is falling today but yesterday the pe was 37, which was not cheap, but not terrible if one believes in the company and thinks it will continue to grow at similar rates in the near future. Problem is I wouldn't have much confidence in management, who has behaved in ways that have damaged the company's prospects for ego-driven reasons.

[Fitzcarraldo]

https://www.axios.com/2023/04/03/elon-musks-twitter-free-speech-checkmarks-ranking

[filghy2]

Latest developments on the hypocrisy (and immature thin-skinned bastardry) of the not so free speech absolutist. It seems he's fallen out with a couple of his Twitter files collaborators who took him at his word.
https://www.thebulwark.com/so-much-for-elon-musk-free-speech-warrior/

[Fitzcarraldo]

Another "successful test."
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/spacexs-starship-rocket-blasts-first-test-flight-rcna79988

[Fitzcarraldo]

This one will hurt:
https://www.engadget.com/microsoft-removes-twitter-from-its-social-media-tool-for-advertisers-051717547.html

[filghy2]

The guy certainly has an interesting approach to winning over customers - reduce the quality of the product, then ask people to pay for somewhat less of a reduction.
https://www.vox.com/recode/2022/11/4/23438917/twitter-verifications-blue-check-elon-musk

[Fitzcarraldo]

Free speech for the Russian, Chinese, and Iranian governments:
https://www.npr.org/2023/04/21/1171193551/twitter-once-muzzled-russian-and-chinese-state-propaganda-thats-over-now

[Fitzcarraldo]

Some analysis of what went wrong with Starship:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/4/22/2165317/-A-Starship-Post-mortem-Why-the-giant-rocket-failed-and-why-it-s-Elon-Musk-s-fault


HERE’S THE TL;DR VERSION OF ALL OF THE ABOVE
The no-clamps slow throttle-up meant Starship stayed on the pad for a long time, throwing up concrete, rock, and sand all directions, damaging the pad, nearby facilities, and Starship itself.
By the time it left the pad, that debris had already destroyed three of Starship’s engines and likely damaged valves and systems that would lead to additional engine failures as well as an incorrect fuel mixture.
Starship was slow to reach every point in the flight plan, suggesting that other engines were not able to throttle up to compensate for the lost engines.
At what should have been stage separation, either software errors or more smashed hardware kept the main booster firing long after it should have shut down.
The result was an uncontrolled spin that required Starship to be destroyed.

[Stavros]

Some analysis of what went wrong with Starship:


Or just ask the experts-

How Do We Launch Things Into Space? | NASA Space Place – NASA Science for Kids (https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/launching-into-space/en/#:~:text=If%20you%20see%20pictures%20or,That's%20t he%20action%20force.)

[Fitzcarraldo]

Or just ask the experts-

How Do We Launch Things Into Space? | NASA Space Place – NASA Science for Kids (https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/launching-into-space/en/#:~:text=If%20you%20see%20pictures%20or,That's%20t he%20action%20force.)

Well, he has a NASA contract for designing a lunar lander.

[Stavros]

Well, he has a NASA contract for designing a lunar lander.

And delegate the task to Howard Wolowitz. They've worked together before. Washing dishes. And did it well.

[broncofan]

For those who aren't on twitter, I want to describe what it was like before and since Musk took over. Before I would like a video of people playing tennis and I would get recommended videos of people playing tennis.

Now it's like "you like tennis? Here's a video of a person on crutches being assaulted on a tennis court." There's this for you tab and it basically recommends every ignorant, gibbering, hateful soul you've ever encountered. For you: three people who called you an imposter Jew. Why's it for me? Because in his view of free speech, they call me names and there's a conversation to be had. Both sides. They may call you names, but you called them hateful so it's basically the same thing.

This last point just underlines why Musk's idea is so stupid. Many of the people who are on there are Nazis. Not because I call people I don't like Nazis but because colloquially speaking, they are obsessed with demonizing every non-white, non-Christian minority group. You are not encouraging dialogue by showing me what they have to say. Instead you are exposing me and other people to noxious stupidity, overt hatred, racist caricatures, violent videos, and anonymous people insinuating the day will come where they'll carry out public executions of the people they hate. It is absolutely idiotic to think there's a responsible business that should host those views.

[Stavros]

For those who aren't on twitter, I want to describe what it was like before and since Musk took over. Before I would like a video of people playing tennis and I would get recommended videos of people playing tennis.

Now it's like "you like tennis? Here's a video of a person on crutches being assaulted on a tennis court." There's this for you tab and it basically recommends every ignorant, gibbering, hateful soul you've ever encountered. For you: three people who called you an imposter Jew. Why's it for me? Because in his view of free speech, they call me names and there's a conversation to be had. Both sides. They may call you names, but you called them hateful so it's basically the same thing.

This last point just underlines why Musk's idea is so stupid. Many of the people who are on there are Nazis. Not because I call people I don't like Nazis but because colloquially speaking, they are obsessed with demonizing every non-white, non-Christian minority group. You are not encouraging dialogue by showing me what they have to say. Instead you are exposing me and other people to noxious stupidity, overt hatred, racist caricatures, violent videos, and anonymous people insinuating the day will come where they'll carry out public executions of the people they hate. It is absolutely idiotic to think there's a responsible business that should host those views.

I didn't realize now bad it can get. I read an article in the Telegraph the other day, freed by Yahoo from the paywall but no longer available, in which the author taking her cue from Carlson, argues too much 'news' in the Media is not news at all, but people shouting at you, being angry, even hysterical, making wild and unverified accusations as if there really was a 'deep state' that is out to turn you into an obedient zombie. But who is trying to take you down the road to mind numbing slavery shaped by a 19th century concept of Race in which you can never be a 'legacy American' or even just an American? The same people! It used to be the case that these views were on the fringe because that is where they belonged, along with the Trotskyists and the Eugenicists. The internet may have opened up a platform for such people they could only have dreamed of before, and it does expose the worms wriggling around in the dirt. But people with responsibility should prove they have the right to own it, eg Musk, and make editorial decisions that do not create the permissive environment in which raw abuse is valued as 'free speech' in equal terms to genuine news and information.

My assumption is that if you haven't deleted your Twitter account, you are going to do it soon -?

[filghy2]

I'm not a prolific twitter user, but I can't see much difference. The "You might like" recommendations still look reasonable and what I'd expect to see.

[broncofan]

That's interesting. There are two differences I notice. One is in the "for you" tab on the left that refreshes the timeline. The "followers" tab is exactly the same and I use it but it took me a second to figure out that I was always on the "for you" tab which I think it defaults to.

And the primary difference in the for you tab is that when I used to get "you might like" recommendations in the past it was always based on things I had pressed the like button on or that someone I follow likes. It was never based on who I interacted with. They didn't used to have a for you tab but that's not really important bc the main tab used to be based on an algorithm of interaction in the same way, just I believe a different one. You used to be able to hit a button at the top right if you wanted just your followers without ai trying to figure out how to customize your timeline.

But I'll give you an example of who is coming up on my timeline that never did before. It's based on the fact that I quote tweeted them to say something negative, and got a bunch of their followers on my timeline who I argued with. And I express the same views there that I do here (I promise I'm not an election denier on twitter lol).

So Mike Cernovich, who is alt-right imo. Jake Shields, an mma fighter who recently came pretty close to incitement against trans people. I'm not going to repeat what he said but if you're on the app you can type in "Jake Shields trans" and look at the tab for top results. I get recommended his tweets all the time. I don't follow him, I've never liked a single thing he's said, but me and some others have responded to a bunch of dumb stuff he's said about "fat women". I also never used to get recommended fight videos of basically personally recorded street fights, some of them involving felony assaults. I've never liked any of the videos and the only connection is that I watch mma and boxing. I know some might say there's the connection but before 5 or 6 months ago I never saw that stuff and have no interest in someone sucker punching someone else or slamming someone on their head onto pavement. For one week when Kyrie Irving had posted a video about how modern Jews aren't really Jews and i responded to one or two tweets, I was recommended all kinds of Black Hebrew Israelite propaganda. It didn't cause me any distress but it was just different and I noticed the change right away.

The only other difference is that I think moderation is closer to 2015-16 levels than it was between 2019 and 2021. 2015 it was close to a free for all there. It might not be as unrestrained now but look underneath any Anti-defamation league tweet. Every single tweet by them is completely bombarded by Nazis. Around 2019 or 2020 these people were getting their accounts suspended with a few reports rather than 12 hour locks that they come back from. Again, my impression is that 2015-16 were that bad but the "censors" everyone complained about from 2019-2020 who Matt Taibbi and Bari Weiss claim they exposed were banning people like that. They were banning people for obvious medical disinfo, and election denial.

Which comes to Stavros' question about whether I'll leave. I won't because I can avoid those people if I am deliberate. I'm not using my real name, have no information that someone can use to locate me, and I am seeing these tweets for two reasons. A lot of my followers and the people I follow argue with these lowlives. And I have responded to things they've said. It's just I never got recommended their stuff ever in the past and the street fight videos are definitely a new thing. Those accounts should simply be banned. They broadcast people getting paralyzed and getting life threatening injuries or in some cases being killed. I'm not saying they were never anywhere on twitter before as I wouldn't know but I never got recommended them and I do regularly now.

I am in a group chat with about 30 people. We talked about this last night and it was half and half about whether they thought there was a difference. It could be based on how one uses twitter. It could of course be some confirmation bias but that's more likely for me on the number of bad accounts I've seen in general versus what i'm recommended bc I never had headscratching choices before.

[broncofan]

I just refreshed and got recommended a rightwing guy named Tim Young with nearly a million followers. It's not the majority of my recommendations but it used to be zero.

[Stavros]

Broncofan, on the one hand I can understand the need people have to constantly challenge the Neo-Nazis, or just Nazis since I am not sure what is Neo about them. On the other hand, it seems futile to me because with very few exceptions, they never listen to an alternative argument and never change. There have been some instances of change, in the UK the case of Ray Hill is particularly important and you may have heard of him (link to his obituary below), but on the whole I think your mental health is going to suffer if you are constantly on the front line of a media war you cannot win.

Again, it is up to those who control the 'system' to be responsible about this. Age old, debunked theories of Race are not news, they are not even opinion but iron-clad dogma as irretrievable as Flat Earth fanatics. The hate embedded in their discourse disqualifies it from being valued, so unless Musk can defend his editorial decisions, I think the shareholders should get rid of him, if that is possible.

Ray Hill-
Former neo-nazi Ray Hill who brought down Leicester's far-right movement dies aged 82 - Leicestershire Live (leicestermercury.co.uk) (https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/former-neo-nazi-ray-hill-7148071)

[broncofan]

https://twitter.com/ADL/status/1651307708480626688

So here is a random ADL tweet from very recent. Most of their tweets are like this and I've seen worse (though obviously I chose the worst one I could see in a couple minutes). The next one is about a synagogue attack in early 2022 before Elon's tenure and there are only four responses. A shame what two of the responses are but it was not what looks like a coordinated response from Nazis. Now, under any tweet about antisemitism, it is what looks like a 4 chan directed assault of asswipes. I chose ADL because I can remember it but I've seen some bad stuff that I haven't seen in five or so years. (as an aside I understand my sampling techniques leave something to be desired but I tried. The difference is that ADL tweets used to have similar likes but about three or four comments. Now, they have tons of people directing hateful mockery.

https://twitter.com/ADL/status/1483076655153225728

[broncofan]

Broncofan, on the one hand I can understand the need people have to constantly challenge the Neo-Nazis, or just Nazis since I am not sure what is Neo about them. On the other hand, it seems futile to me because with very few exceptions, they never listen to an alternative argument and never change. There have been some instances of change, in the UK the case of Ray Hill is particularly important and you may have heard of him (link to his obituary below), but on the whole I think your mental health is going to suffer if you are constantly on the front line of a media war you cannot win.

Again, it is up to those who control the 'system' to be responsible about this. Age old, debunked theories of Race are not news, they are not even opinion but iron-clad dogma as irretrievable as Flat Earth fanatics. The hate embedded in their discourse disqualifies it from being valued, so unless Musk can defend his editorial decisions, I think the shareholders should get rid of him, if that is possible.

Ray Hill-
Former neo-nazi Ray Hill who brought down Leicester's far-right movement dies aged 82 - Leicestershire Live (leicestermercury.co.uk) (https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/former-neo-nazi-ray-hill-7148071)
You're exactly right. I have to admit it was not super smart or good for me to engage with these people. It didn't help anyone either....

[broncofan]

https://twitter.com/ADL/status/1650577100917596207

This is a good example. I didn't used to see responses like this under tree of life tweets. The other one mentioned Israel but this is just a Tree of Life tweet. They could easily get rid of the ghouls stalking that account and they did a bit more than a year ago or for some reason they weren't really there.

This is a tweet about the Tree of Life synagogue in 2021. https://twitter.com/ADL/status/1453345829671026689?s=20

[broncofan]

I'm sorry about my posts in this thread. I had a bit too much time on my hands and messed up the thread a bit.

[filghy2]

On the other hand, it seems futile to me because with very few exceptions, they never listen to an alternative argument and never change.

In fact, they thrive on creating diversions and provoking emotional reponses. Like all trolls, their aim if to gain applause from like-minded people and annoy the other side.

[filghy2]

That's interesting. There are two differences I notice. One is in the "for you" tab on the left that refreshes the timeline. The "followers" tab is exactly the same and I use it but it took me a second to figure out that I was always on the "for you" tab which I think it defaults to.

I think the difference may be that I've been going straight to the twitter pages I'm interested in, which don't have a "For you" tab. I only see that if I go to the twitter home page, and it's a bunch of really random stuff. Interestingly, the top of the "Who to follow" list on that page is Tucker Carlson.

[broncofan]

I think the difference may be that I've been going straight to the twitter pages I'm interested in, which don't have a "For you" tab. I only see that if I go to the twitter home page, and it's a bunch of really random stuff. Interestingly, the top of the "Who to follow" list on that page is Tucker Carlson.
That's a healthy way to use twitter. That's not how a lot of twitter addicts use it. I click the home button mindlessly and scroll whatever pops up. It reminds me of that Sarah Palin interview where she was asked what newspapers she reads and she said "whatever they put in front of me."

I realize some of my tweets in this thread were pointless. I was as they say on the right, slightly triggered by some folks. I shut down my twitter account until Monday, when I'll be well rested to start getting irritated all over again.

[filghy2]

The trick with social media is to make sure you use it for your purposes, rather than letting the platforms use you for their purposes. Don't get sucked into the outrage generation machine.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abe5641

How social learning amplifies moral outrage expression in online social networks

Abstract
Moral outrage shapes fundamental aspects of social life and is now widespread in online social networks. Here, we show how social learning processes amplify online moral outrage expressions over time. In two preregistered observational studies on Twitter (7331 users and 12.7 million total tweets) and two preregistered behavioral experiments (N = 240), we find that positive social feedback for outrage expressions increases the likelihood of future outrage expressions, consistent with principles of reinforcement learning. In addition, users conform their outrage expressions to the expressive norms of their social networks, suggesting norm learning also guides online outrage expressions. Norm learning overshadows reinforcement learning when normative information is readily observable: in ideologically extreme networks, where outrage expression is more common, users are less sensitive to social feedback when deciding whether to express outrage. Our findings highlight how platform design interacts with human learning mechanisms to affect moral discourse in digital public spaces.

[Stavros]

There are no tricks here -just vacate the space. It might be because of my age, but I have never seen the point of Twitter other than as an instant news feed for politics and commerce. At one time there were multiple alt.this groups, then yahoo groups and like myspace they have all gone. By the time of their demise they had become flooded with spam and I don't see how Musk can maintain Twitter in its original form if he refuses to exert any editorial control over the content.

I suppose there has always been a deep well of abuse but most of the time we never heard it or read it, but I do think since Murdoch took over UK newspapers in the late 1960s he has nurtured a culture of vulgarity, complaint, grievance and abuse to stir up 'the people' against the Government and the State. He loathes both, and to detach the people from their Govt he needs to prove that politicians are permanent liars and frauds, but has also selected people in sport and entertainment to be targets of ridicule and abuse, even if, as Hugh Grant now claims, it means breaking the law through burglaries, phone hacking, stalking and so on. In any previous incarnation of democracy and the rule of law, Murdoch in the UK would have been declared unfit to own a media company and banned.

Once Murdoch established abuse as a norm, the rest piled in. This is different from Satire, such as is used in the UK by the weekly paper Private Eye, or on tv in the 1960s by a programme on the BBC called That Was The Week That Was. At the time, it was rare to see politicians lampooned at all -but there was no malice involved, although Private Eye for some time has been a vehicle for Govt disinformation, conspiracy theories and questionable ethics. Satire if done properly can always be seen for what it is, whereas with Murdoch there is dark, malevolent project at work, and I think Musk is part of the loop that regard politics with contempt and Markets as greater than God.

Finally this: all these hymns to individual liberty, orchestrated by men who want you to conform to their version of Markets, their version of Freedom, their version of Free Speech. But other Versions are available, if only we had the power to bring them to the centre stage where they belong.

[broncofan]

There are no tricks here -just vacate the space. It might be because of my age, but I have never seen the point of Twitter other than as an instant news feed for politics and commerce.
I agree with your post but I want to add why I think twitter has been very popular. The best way to use it is to just find what you're looking for on there and move on but that's a responsible use. It sucks people in because you can constantly refresh it to keep being fed things that will feed your outrage/intrigue meter and can be a kind of mindless entertainment akin to dumping coins in a slot machine to get 90% of your money back.

Every once in a while it is an incredible app for schadenfreude on a mass scale and is the most fun when there's a scandalous report of some kind or some jerk has embarrassed themselves. On those nights it's a place where you can hear the laughter of 10,000 "friends". Ted Cruz liking cuckold porn or Kurt Eichenwald posting a screenshot that showed a trove of tentacle porn, which he tried to explain in a way that was worse than if he just said he enjoys seeing illustrated octopae have sex. The scandals don't always involve men accidentally revealing what porn they like but sometimes people say incredibly dumb, hypocritical things and it does feel like you can laugh at their hypocrisy and gullibility in real time.

Here is what's bad about it in addition to what you said. When something is revealed that supports some bias, you refresh your page and interact with those who agree, but the demand for actual news becomes greater than the supply. The supply is bottlenecked by things that actually happen. You can't make more things happen by refreshing your page. So, you can probably figure out what people do. Eventually you see a tweet that there are 50,000 ballots in a dumpster with a Chinese shipping receipt and nobody bothers to ask what that means or consider that it's definitely false. And the debate that Musk brought was that twitter shouldn't be legislating what's true. But it is a system that rewards confabulation and benefits from it so of course it should.

[broncofan]

The trick with social media is to make sure you use it for your purposes, rather than letting the platforms use you for their purposes. Don't get sucked into the outrage generation machine.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abe5641

How social learning amplifies moral outrage expression in online social networks

Abstract
Moral outrage shapes fundamental aspects of social life and is now widespread in online social networks. Here, we show how social learning processes amplify online moral outrage expressions over time. In two preregistered observational studies on Twitter (7331 users and 12.7 million total tweets) and two preregistered behavioral experiments (N = 240), we find that positive social feedback for outrage expressions increases the likelihood of future outrage expressions, consistent with principles of reinforcement learning. In addition, users conform their outrage expressions to the expressive norms of their social networks, suggesting norm learning also guides online outrage expressions. Norm learning overshadows reinforcement learning when normative information is readily observable: in ideologically extreme networks, where outrage expression is more common, users are less sensitive to social feedback when deciding whether to express outrage. Our findings highlight how platform design interacts with human learning mechanisms to affect moral discourse in digital public spaces.
That's really interesting. What's worrying is that if the each group consensus forms around various falsehoods it's difficult to convince people they're wrong within the social media framework. And if the app captures a lot of people's attention, it becomes much tougher to get people to hear you outside of it. Not only does it capture people's attention but it probably in the long run shortens their attention span for more demanding types of discourse and thought.

[Stavros]

I agree with your post but I want to add why I think twitter has been very popular. .
I understand what you say, but I prefer a different response to the stories which expose the hypocrisy of someone like Rafael Cruz. For example, I have found the articles by Heather Cox Richardson, but that is also because I don't need to know something in 5 seconds of reading. I guess a younger generation cannot cope with anything longer than 2 minutes.

I once fed money into a slot machine, would have been delighted to get 9% of my money back. I didn't!

Letters from an American | Heather Cox Richardson | Substack (https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/)

[Fitzcarraldo]

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/faa-sued-spacex-starship-launch-program-april-explosion-rcna82289

[Fitzcarraldo]

Mr. Free Speech is at it again:
https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-cis-cisgender-slur-twitter-1850559321

[Stavros]

"Twitter owner Elon Musk has suggested (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1678098028849143809) he and Mark Zuckerberg should have “a literal dick-measuring contest” in the latest broadside aimed at his rival billionaire."
Elon Musk goes low against Zuckerberg as Twitter-Threads spat intensifies | Elon Musk | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jul/10/elon-musk-mark-zuckerberg-cuck-twitter-threads)

Seriously? And who wants to see their dicks anyway? I am tempted to say 'Grow Up!' but they have still a long, long way to go.

[Fitzcarraldo]

Well, at least Elon has a Taliban endorsement going for him:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwg9n/taliban-endorses-twitter-over-threads

[KnightHawk 2.0]

"Twitter owner Elon Musk has suggested (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1678098028849143809) he and Mark Zuckerberg should have “a literal dick-measuring contest” in the latest broadside aimed at his rival billionaire."
Elon Musk goes low against Zuckerberg as Twitter-Threads spat intensifies | Elon Musk | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jul/10/elon-musk-mark-zuckerberg-cuck-twitter-threads)

Seriously? And who wants to see their dicks anyway? I am tempted to say 'Grow Up!' but they have still a long, long way to go.Completely agree,nobody wants to see that.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Mr. Free Speech is at it again:
https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-cis-cisgender-slur-twitter-1850559321Yes unfortunately. Elon Muskrat should keep his despicable and disgusting comments to himself.

[filghy2]

The latest thought bubble from the genius is to rebrand Twitter as X, ditching the famous blue bird symbol. He seems to have a thing about the letter X, even using it for one of his kids names.

Apparently X represents the unknown variable, which is supposed to symbolise the unlimited potential of his grandiose 'everything app' plan. As usual, he just comes across as a nerd trying too hard to be cool but failing.

[Fitzcarraldo]

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/twitter-x-kanye-west-elon-musk-hate-speech-lawsuit-rcna97351

[Fitzcarraldo]

More turmoil in Musk World:
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-cfo-zachary-kirkhorn-steps-down-replaced-by-vaibhav-taneja-2023-08-07/

[Fitzcarraldo]

Mr. Free Speech is at it again:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/05/tech/elon-musk-adl-lawsuit/index.html

[filghy2]

It's usually revealing when someone blames bigotry on the people being targeted by the bigots.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/musk-antisemitism-anti-defamation-league-twitter/675235/

[broncofan]

I liked most of that article by Yair Rosenberg in the Atlantic and think it sums up the situation pretty well.

Ironically, I don't think Musk has really strong opinions about Jews, which is surprising given his actions in boosting accounts that violently threaten and dehumanize Jews. The people he civilly discusses ADL overreach with, by coincidence, also happen to call Jews rats, think the Holocaust was a hoax, and make veiled references about harming us, but in exactly the same way they claim we weren't harmed. He simply does not care that they believe these things as they are not minor insults to him, but potential major threats to people who are not him.

I think this guy is pathologically self-centered, unable to be thoughtful about any really complex subject, and vindictive towards anyone he thinks has interfered with his interests or wounded his ego. He developed this "absolute free speech" idea out of convenience because it meant he could selectively boost people who, like himself, have been dismissed by experts and not recognized sufficiently for their genius. That would be anti-vaxxers, antisemites, homophobes, racists and other conspiracy theorists. That would also be election deniers, who, while their claims were being carefully refuted, and dismissed in court, were still drumming up support by the millions in terms of belief.

He says he's going to sue the ADL for 20 billion dollars. Hundreds of thousands of people think that he can not only succeed by showing that their claims are not true when they patently are, but that they also made such false statements with the knowledge they were false. It is delusional. He has people whose entire accounts are dedicated to curating pictures of Jewish noses talking about how he's going to sue a Jewish Civil Rights organization for lying about their antisemitism. Have they forgotten what he has to prove?

I think the amount of damage he can do on antisemitism is going to be self-limiting (wishful thinking but I also think so). The amount of damage he can do to the discourse has not and may not reach Fox News level proportions, but it's pretty clear he's a dangerous guy in the long run.

[broncofan]

Anyhow, it's worth pointing out that absolute free speech would include disagreeing with bigots and advocating that brands should not want to associate themselves with them. Unless the idea is to support unrestrained speech for people preaching hatred and careful moderation for the responses.

[Fitzcarraldo]

He sabotaged a Ukrainian attack on Russia:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/07/politics/elon-musk-biography-walter-isaacson-ukraine-starlink/index.html

[filghy2]

He sabotaged a Ukrainian attack on Russia:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/07/politics/elon-musk-biography-walter-isaacson-ukraine-starlink/index.html

If the claim in the article is correct it implies that Starlink is eavesdropping on communications over its network. Wouldn't that be illegal in most countries?

It seems contradictory for Musk to complain about being dragged into the war and then take upon himself to second-guess Ukraine's decisions.

I'm surprised their isn't some defence power the US military could use to order Starlink to maintain these communications. That would solve the perception issue for Musk because the matter would be out of his hands.

[Fitzcarraldo]

It seems contradictory for Musk to complain about being dragged into the war and then take upon himself to second-guess Ukraine's decisions.


He does what he wants. He contradicts himself often. But he has ties to both Putin and China.

[filghy2]

I think this guy is pathologically self-centered, unable to be thoughtful about any really complex subject, and vindictive towards anyone he thinks has interfered with his interests or wounded his ego.

Sounds exactly like another guy we've discussed a lot here. I think it's a moot point whether such people are really bigots or they just cosy up to bigots because they have a pathological need to get uncritical praise from somewhere and spite those on the other side who've criticised them. Morally, there is no difference if the effect is the same.

[broncofan]

Sounds exactly like another guy we've discussed a lot here. I think it's a moot point whether such people are really bigots or they just cosy up to bigots because they have a pathological need to get uncritical praise from somewhere and spite those on the other side who've criticised them. Morally, there is no difference if the effect is the same.
I think that's probably right. If you look at his account and who he is cosying up to, I think it explains a lot about his decisions with respect to Ukraine as well. But he has at times parroted views we hear from the far-right, which is that we should let Putin do what he wants. He is pretty close to an antivaxxer as well. Wanted Dr. Peter Hotez to debate RFK Jr. on the issue of vaccines on Joe Rogan show. Thought covid would disappear in less than a month in mid march 2020 (like another person weve discussed).

The one silver lining of his threat to sue the ADL is that it implies twitter is struggling financially. If he thinks adl hit him for 20 billion dollars....then the dumbass has disappeared at least 20 billion dollars into twitter to improve his online relationship with kimdotcom, catturd, ummm Chaya Raichik of Libs of Tik Tok (a pathological hater of lgbt), and a diverse cast of toxic, hateful people.

[Stavros]

He sabotaged a Ukrainian attack on Russia:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/07/politics/elon-musk-biography-walter-isaacson-ukraine-starlink/index.html

This was discussed on last night's BBC-2 Newsnight programme, where David Frum argued that in effect, a US citizen was making decisions that would normally be made by the US Govt and it it might make more sense to nationalize Starlink. A defence expert pointed out the US military does not have the capacity to launch the hundreds of small satellites that are used for the global internet; another that the US military was well aware of the contracts that Musk/Starlink had signed.

If there are military and technological complications -should any company owned by an individual have so much power -but what if only such a person can do it?- the political and moral questions cast doubt on the statements Musk has made to justify his decisions. After all, if a Chinese tech billionaire had similar power, the US and quite other countries would be 'concerned' or 'terrified' depending on the rhetoric.

The moral problem is that by not doing something, in this case enabling the Ukraine military to destroy a substantial part of the Russian fleet, Musk enabled them to maintain their campaign in the Ukraine which kills men, women and children; destroys their homes, their schools, their hospitals, their businesses -all of which are violations of International Law. This might not make Musk a war criminal, but he appears to be an accessory to Mass Murder.

The political problem is that I don't think the US Govt knows what to do. It has become dependent on private individuals for defence procurement, and one must accept that it is quite jejune for Musk to claim, as quoted in Martina Hyde's article
"that Starlink was “so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes”"
because, as she carries on
"You’re in this war because you’re literally a defence contractor".
And then Elon Musk said there’ll be no more war – not via his satellite. Aren’t we lucky to have the world in his hands? | Marina Hyde | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/08/elon-musk-satellite-war-starlink-system-ukraine)

Musk is not just the 'Edgelord', but here I think on the edge, but I don't know what of. The US Govt in theory ought to be able to hold an American citizen to account for a military incident that involved one of the USA's allies, but risks getting involved in an argument about the State and the Free Economy, about the rights of individual entrepreneurs to do what they do, but also surely, an argument or a debate about the extent to which any private individual shouold be able to go when it comes to military affairs.

Would Musk prevent Starlink from helping the US military if it was involved in Mexico? At what point does Musk's involvement in military affairs, put him on the same level as those other private armies, be it Wagner in Russia, the Cheetahs of the Revolution in Iran, or the Proud Boys, Boogaloo Bois, the Oathkeepers and the III Percenters (currently embedded in US Law Enforcement) in the USA?

Something it appears must be done. But other than Frum's argument to take Starlink into State ownership -and that creates another agenda, as in, should the Federal Govt have ownership of the technology that you use to browse the internet and post on Hungangels?- what is the argument? After all, the same technology used to generate nuclear power can be used as nuclear weapons; the Internet can expand freedom, or be used to limit it.

I don't think we can expect much coherence from 'Phoney Stark', as Hyde observes

"It’s not that Musk doesn’t have a consistent worldview so much as he doesn’t even have consistency" --and that is a whole other problem in itself.

Shareholder revolt?

[filghy2]

Twitter is no longer a publicly-listed company since Musk acquired it. Apparently he owns 79% of the shares, so there can't be a shareholder revolt. The advantage of being a private company is that you aren't subject to the accountability requirements that apply to a public company.

In WWII the US government was able to direct the private sector to support the war effort, so there should be no question that it can be done. Perhaps the legal constraint is that the US is not currently in a declared war, and for obvious reasons wants to avoid this.

There is definitely a huge problem with a single individual being the monopoly provider of an essential public service, which is the situation in Ukraine since the war knocked out their communications system. This would not apply to, say, a war in Mexico because the US military would have other communications options and wouldn't depend on Starlink. Taking control of Starlink would not mean the US government controlling the internet because in the US and most of the world it is just one of many internet service providers.

The normal solution to this problem would be to either nationalise the monopoly provider or regulate it. The US did order the breakup of the AT&T telecom monopoly in the 1980s, so there is a history of doing such things. Obviously, there is a question as to what the current Supreme Court would allow.

I doubt the Biden administration will have the appetite to try and take control of Starlink because it won't want a huge furore about 'socialism'. But what the anti-government zealots usually ignore is that the benefits of free enterprise depend on competition. A private monopolist is potentially just as autocratic as big government - in fact, probably worse because governments are usually more able to be constrained and held accountable.

[filghy2]

Another point to note is that companies would normally be very reluctant to refuse national security-related requests, for fear of being seen as unpatriotic. For instance, the IT companies went along with the security agencies' requests to monitor communications after 9/11, even though the legality was dubious. The attitude of many Republicans toward Ukraine has probably encouraged Musk to think he can get away with this.

[Stavros]

All good points above, but I was thinking of the shareholders in Starlink not X.

[filghy2]

Starlink is not a public company either. It's a division of SpaceX, in which Musk holds a controlling interest.
https://www.starlinkhardware.com/who-owns-starlink/

[Stavros]

Starlink is not a public company either. It's a division of SpaceX, in which Musk holds a controlling interest.
https://www.starlinkhardware.com/who-owns-starlink/

Evidently I was not aware of this. Ah well, I guess he will either survive or melt down. What to make of a man who wanted to name one his children X, and has named another Tau Techno Mechanicus, assuming it is a human child and not an Android. Any wonder why one of his children grew up, changed gender and name?

[filghy2]

Interesting article on the Musk biography that contained the above revelation.
https://www.vox.com/culture/23872485/elon-musk-walter-isaacson-biography-review

"Things that are in Musk’s nature according to Isaacson: the desire for total control; obsession; resistance to rules and regulations; insensitivity; a love of drama and chaos and urgency.

Things that are not in Musk’s nature according to Isaacson: deference; empathy; restraint; the ability to collaborate; the instinct to think about how the things he says impact the people around him; doting on his children; vacations."

One illustrative example is that Tesla factories have an injury rate that is 30% higher than the rest of the industry, apparently because Musk refuses to follow standard industry safety practices. The man is a sociopath.

[Fitzcarraldo]

He's a "disruptor."

[Stavros]

He's a "disruptor."

In a negative sense, perhaps. I am not sure he has been an innovator in business practice, more a 'destroyer' of regulations and that is not the same thing. A lot of the time his focus is on cutting costs, rather than improving the efficiency of the business.

The link offers a positive view of 'Disruptive Change' in business and industry, with some good examples, although it seems to me that it is a transfer of Kuhn's concept(s) of the Paradigm Shift from science to commerce.

Disruptive Change: Definition, Examples and How To Manage | Indeed.com (https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/disruptive-change#:~:text=What%20is%20disruptive%20change%3F, or%20business%20start%20to%20shift.)

[filghy2]

Latest thought bubble by the genius - charge people a monthly fee to use Twitter. If this happens I suspect it might be the final nail in the coffin. The business model for social media has been to attract an audience with a free platform and then charge businesses to target ads at them.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/18/elon-musk-says-x-will-charge-users-a-small-monthly-payment-to-use-its-service/

[Fitzcarraldo]

What bullshit:

“It’s the only way I can think of to combat vast armies of bots,” explained Musk. “Because a bot costs a fraction of a penny — call it a tenth of a penny — but even if it has to pay…a few dollars or something, the effective cost of bots is very high,” he said. Plus, every time a bot creator wanted to make another bot, they would need another new payment method.

It's the easy way for him to stop losing money since he's scared off advertisers by being an asshole.

[broncofan]

Latest thought bubble by the genius - charge people a monthly fee to use Twitter. If this happens I suspect it might be the final nail in the coffin. The business model for social media has been to attract an audience with a free platform and then charge businesses to target ads at them.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/18/elon-musk-says-x-will-charge-users-a-small-monthly-payment-to-use-its-service/
Yes and this is a worse idea even though his ad revenue is way down. I think he must not care about the money in twitter at all. He is using it as a personal microphone, using it to promote his idea of free speech however inconsistent, and to promote people he likes. It's the dumbest personal crusade I've ever seen. It really must be the only way he can feel any self-esteem.

I almost left when he limited dms to 100 a day. Two things that would make me delete my account for sure. Requiring me to pay. Requiring me to submit any personal or financial information to him.

[broncofan]

What bullshit:


It's the easy way for him to stop losing money since he's scared off advertisers by being an asshole.
His most recent tweet was that Russell Brand is not evil. I can't imagine tweeting something like that. If you aren't sure about the charges (I think they're very likely true), say you'd like to see him have his day in court or something like that. But I don't see how you can just dismiss charges like this without knowing anything more. Advertisers don't like apologists for rape.

[filghy2]

It's the easy way for him to stop losing money since he's scared off advertisers by being an asshole.

It's not likely to work because a fall in users will result in even less advertising revenue. Trying to make this up by increasing charges would just create a vicious circle.

The thing that sustains Twitter is that size creates its own inertia. Most people have kept posting there, despite their reservations, because that's where the audience is. People keep using it because its free, convenient and lots of people they are interested in are on there. But if you do enough to disrupt that equilibrium you can create a downward spiral.

And all this because he refuses to honestly address the fundamental issue of why advertising has fallen so much.

[broncofan]

It's not likely to work because a fall in users will result in even less advertising revenue. Trying to make this up by increasing charges would just create a vicious circle.

The thing that sustains Twitter is that size creates its own inertia. Most people have kept posting there, despite their reservations, because that's where the audience is. People keep using it because its free, convenient and lots of people they are interested in are on there. But if you do enough to disrupt that equilibrium you can create a downward spiral.

And all this because he refuses to honestly address the fundamental issue of why advertising has fallen so much.
I've mentioned that I'm in a group chat of about 50 people with similar politics on twitter. Everyone agrees they want an alternative and about every week someone finds a site and distributes links to create a username at the new site. The problem is that the other site, as you indicate, may not have generated enough traffic to catch on. Or sometimes the features on the other site make it much less fun. Sometimes the new site has decent features but is confusing as hell to use and a lot of people give up.

Without an alternative, it's hard to create a red line to leave bc most people consider only whether they'd rather post on twitter or not.

There is the issue of why advertising has fallen off and I think Elon is just so muddled in his thinking on this. No electronic app that allows millions of people to hear what "catturd" says can be analogous to the public square. Because in the public square people are limited in their reach by how hard it is to generate an audience and the logistics of getting lots of people to congregate and listen to you.

I don't see how a right to speak without being thrown in jail or being liable to suit can be equivalent to a right to be broadcasted.

Now Musk can use phrases like "we said freedom of speech not freedom of reach" but this is sophistry. If you limit someone's reach so that nobody sees them, you have prevented them from speaking, which is a broadcaster's or private forum owner's right. If you allow someone to develop a fanbase of millions while saying things that aren't true and that cause public harm, you are not like the government official who decides not to prosecute such a person. That person has a constitutional guarantee not to be prosecuted. They had no legal right to be on Elon's forum or to have Elon permit them to be broadcasted to millions.

Boycotts against Elon and his dumb idea are perfectly just. That guy can fuck himself with a cactus......

[Fitzcarraldo]

The Hard Times is a satire site that mostly does music-related stuff, but not always:
https://thehardtimes.net/lists/50-bond-villains-ranked-by-how-much-more-likable-they-are-than-elon-musk/

[Helvis2012]

Well put. Elon is a real disappointment.

[filghy2]

He's at it again.

Elon Musk tweeted his fervent agreement with an antisemitic statement on Wednesday night.

A tweet posted by @breakingbaht on Wednesday night read: “Jewish communties [sic] have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them.”

The billionaire owner and CTO of X, formerly Twitter, responded the same evening: “You have said the actual truth.” In another reply, he wrote: “I am deeply offended by ADL’s messaging and any other groups who push de facto anti-white racism or anti-Asian racism or racism of any kind.”

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/16/elon-musk-antisemitic-tweet-adl

[Stavros]

.

In another reply, he wrote: “I am deeply offended by ADL’s messaging and any other groups who push de facto anti-white racism or anti-Asian racism or racism of any kind.”



So what he actually objects to is the political activism of the Anti-Defamation League, and he could have said so without blundering into a rhetorical flourish which suggests he reacts to situations emotionally, rather than with a sober and critical mind. I don't suppose being opposed to the ADL is by definition anti-Semitic, though I don't doubt some who do, are. This language oozing out the the latest chapter in the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians is soaked in ignorance and prejudice of a kind I had hoped we would never see or hear again.

If it further damages the X brand, I wonder if it will survive another year.

[BostonBad]

A lot of people are a fan of Musk's approach to free speech, in particular people under 30. The current global issue which brought about the current debate has no "good side" or "bad side."

But one side clearly dominates the media's voice and how each side is presented to the public. We are told one side is bad, which why people are boycotting Starbucks and McDonald's.

Each side is genetically similar and speak a similar language. This is a family fight. They have been screwing each other over for 3000 years, and some peace talks and a few bombs won't fix it.

I say let Musk say what he wants to say and let people post what they post, unless it's advocating violence.

[Fitzcarraldo]

I say let Musk say what he wants to say and let people post what they post, unless it's advocating violence.

He does say what he wants to say. But no one is obligated to pay for advertising on his site.

And which side "clearly dominates the media's voice" depends on which media you follow.

[Stavros]

I say let Musk say what he wants to say and let people post what they post, unless it's advocating violence.



The problem is not so much one of free speech, but the kind of speech that is being permitted and then endorsed. It is bad enough to give a platform to an ideology that has slaughtered millions -they did it in the 1930s-40s, they can do it again- Musk's inept response was to endorse the view and by doing so undermine the faith others have in his platform.

Violence was, and remains the ultimate expression of anti-Semitism, indeed of most hate speech, be it against the Jews, Muslims or Transgendered people. There is no innocence in hating men in frocks, it is just one step away from a punch in the face, or a bullet in the gut. Responsible owners of public platforms take steps to prevent such expression, not endorse it.

There are plenty of other ways and places where this sickening stuff can be read online. X doesn't need to mark the spot.

[MrFanti]

A lot of people are a fan of Musk's approach to free speech, in particular people under 30. The current global issue which brought about the current debate has no "good side" or "bad side."

But one side clearly dominates the media's voice and how each side is presented to the public. We are told one side is bad, which why people are boycotting Starbucks and McDonald's.

Each side is genetically similar and speak a similar language. This is a family fight. They have been screwing each other over for 3000 years, and some peace talks and a few bombs won't fix it.

I say let Musk say what he wants to say and let people post what they post, unless it's advocating violence.

What both "major" sides forget about free speech is the following
-The right to disagree.

Both major sides would rather silence then allow someone to disagree......

[filghy2]

I say let Musk say what he wants to say and let people post what they post, unless it's advocating violence.

He can say what he wants, but he must also accept that there are consequences, which he obviously has trouble doing. Since when does free speech mean that nobody can criticise what you say or choose to take their business elsewhere?

Musk is not just an individual; he's also the owner of a major social media platform. The problem since he took over Twitter is that Musk the opinionated, impulsive individual has completely taken over from Musk the businessman. The inevitable outcome is that the business fails.

When influential people endorse views like "Jews have been pushing diabolical hatred against whites" that does encourage violence in some people. Are you seriously suggesting that should be accepted as a reasonable viewpoint?

[Fitzcarraldo]

Are you seriously suggesting that should be accepted as a reasonable viewpoint?

Have you ever read any of BostonBad's posts?

[filghy2]

Have you ever read any of BostonBad's posts?

I'm suprised he actually managed to post something without mentioning his pet fixation.

[filghy2]

The man has interesting ideas about how to win back disatisfied clients.
"If someone is going to blackmail me with money, go fuck yourself."
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tells-advertises-get-lost-twitter-dealbook-summit2023-11

If you think that changing course for financial reasons would be responding to blackmail then what are you doing running a profit-making business? How does he think capitalism works?

[Fitzcarraldo]

The man has interesting ideas about how to win back disatisfied clients.
"If someone is going to blackmail me with money, go fuck yourself."
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tells-advertises-get-lost-twitter-dealbook-summit2023-11

If you think that changing course for financial reasons would be responding to blackmail then what are you doing running a profit-making business? How does he think capitalism works?

And he really hasn't addressed his antisemitism.

[filghy2]

And he really hasn't addressed his antisemitism.

He did try to walk back his previous comment, but then he undermines it by lashing out like this. I don't know whether he is really antisemitic, or just a manchild who can't control his impulses to lash out at critics in the nastiest terms he can think of. But I'm not sure how much the distinction matters if the effect is to promote antisemitic memes.

There are still some people who think this may be part of some brilliant strategy to destroy Twitter/X as it was and create something else from it. It's hard to see what brilliant strategy would require first burning through a $44bn investment. His recent behaviour suggests he's probably given up on trying to salvage Twitter/X and is mainly interested in casting the blame on 'woke' corporations.

[Fitzcarraldo]

https://www.engadget.com/tesla-knew-some-of-its-parts-had-high-failure-rates-but-reportedly-blamed-drivers-anyway-184957494.html

[Stavros]

On the one hand, if it is safe and works, it would be a phenomenal transformation for people affected; on the other hand can we trust technology to do good things when the potential for its abuse cannot be dismissed? If the implants work, why limit their use for quadriplegics?

"Elon Musk, Neuralink’s billionaire founder, said the first human received an implant from the brain-chip startup on Sunday and is recovering well, in a post (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1752098683024220632) on Twitter/X on Monday.The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had given the company clearance last year to conduct its first trial to test its implant on humans.
...The study will assess the functionality of the interface, which enables people with quadriplegia, or paralysis of all four limbs, to control devices with their thoughts, according to the company’s website."
Elon Musk says Neuralink has implanted first brain chip in a human | Elon Musk | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/jan/29/elon-musk-neuralink-first-human-brain-chip-implant)

[Fitzcarraldo]

Gotta wonder what the monthly subscription fee will be.

[Fitzcarraldo]

https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-tesla-compensation-pay-shareholders-e75687178d1175fba36ca55bd9c4c805

[Fitzcarraldo]

Gotta wonder what the monthly subscription fee will be.

Ha, I beat The Hard Times to it:
https://thehardtimes.net/culture/elon-musk-introduces-neuralink-premium-which-allows-recipients-to-maintain-basic-function-of-limbic-system-for-additional-8-monthly/

[Stavros]

Ha, I beat The Hard Times to it:
https://thehardtimes.net/culture/elon-musk-introduces-neuralink-premium-which-allows-recipients-to-maintain-basic-function-of-limbic-system-for-additional-8-monthly/

Aha, so using the latest technology to benefit those less able than ourselves is merely one step toward...what? Consider this from your link-

"“This is a big step forward for humanity. If things keep moving forward at this rate then this will be a consumer product anyone can have lodged in their brain in less than a decade. Just think how easy it will be to turn on your television just by thinking ‘turn on television.’ No more reaching upwards of three feet away for remotes, or yelling things at your smart TV,” said the world’s second-richest man. “And we will also have a premium package that guarantees we won’t remotely shut down your limbic system for the low monthly price of $8. This gives you full access to your long-term memory, sexual stimulation, even your sense of smell. We are already working on a Premium+ package that will use AI to make you seem more charming when you talk. The AI has been trained off of my daily banter with friends, so you are guaranteed to be more popular.”

So if you fail to pay that $8 fee will they threaten to 'shut you down? Maybe this technology should be given for free to people who truly need it, and I doubt there are so many quadriplegics in the US for this to be a drain on a man who is paid millions and millions of dollars a year. And maybe he should volunteer to be chipped and pinned?

Was there ever a man so good at losing the confidence of the people he needs for his schemes to work?

[Fitzcarraldo]

Aha, so using the latest technology to benefit those less able than ourselves is merely one step toward...what? Consider this from your link-

"“This is a big step forward for humanity. If things keep moving forward at this rate then this will be a consumer product anyone can have lodged in their brain in less than a decade. Just think how easy it will be to turn on your television just by thinking ‘turn on television.’ No more reaching upwards of three feet away for remotes, or yelling things at your smart TV,” said the world’s second-richest man. “And we will also have a premium package that guarantees we won’t remotely shut down your limbic system for the low monthly price of $8. This gives you full access to your long-term memory, sexual stimulation, even your sense of smell. We are already working on a Premium+ package that will use AI to make you seem more charming when you talk. The AI has been trained off of my daily banter with friends, so you are guaranteed to be more popular.”

So if you fail to pay that $8 fee will they threaten to 'shut you down? Maybe this technology should be given for free to people who truly need it, and I doubt there are so many quadriplegics in the US for this to be a drain on a man who is paid millions and millions of dollars a year. And maybe he should volunteer to be chipped and pinned?

Was there ever a man so good at losing the confidence of the people he needs for his schemes to work?

Apparently you didn't notice that The Hard Times is a (very obviously) satire site. They made the same joke I did, but used many more words.

[Stavros]

A fair cop, but it is hard to know with Musk what is real and what is 'satire' or just hi sounding off. And isn't that the problem when dealing with someone with that amount of money and influence?

[Fitzcarraldo]

A fair cop, but it is hard to know with Musk what is real and what is 'satire' or just hi sounding off. And isn't that the problem when dealing with someone with that amount of money and influence?

Hence my initial joke.

[Stavros]

Hence my initial joke.

What was the joke? Playing with people's lives is not funny.

[Fitzcarraldo]

What was the joke? Playing with people's lives is not funny.

OK, my sarcastic remark about the nature of Elon Musk, the current trend to turn everything into a monthly subscription service, and healthcare under capitalism. I'm not the one creating Neuralink implants. I'm also not a profiteer.

I'll try not to overestimate anyone's intelligence again when posting satirical articles.

[Stavros]

I just didn't get it, let's leave it at that.

[Fitzcarraldo]

I just didn't get it, let's leave it at that.

I only responded to your comments about it. If you don't comment about it further, I'm done.

[filghy2]

What was the joke? Playing with people's lives is not funny.

Have you never heard of black humour? I guess you must really hate Dr Strangelove.

[broncofan]

Have you never heard of black humour? I guess you must really hate Dr Strangelove.
Lol he actually does!

[filghy2]

Ironically, the man who is now implanting chips in people's brains once made a post supporting the conspiracy theory that Bill Gates was financing 'mind-control' vaccines.
https://futurism.com/the-byte/elon-musk-deletes-meme-accusing-bill-gates-vaccine-mind-control
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-brief-cia-in-2005/

Just imagine the right-wing frenzy if Gates was financing this brain chip project.

[filghy2]

Lol he actually does!

Yes, I remember now that he dismissed Kubrick's films. Welcome back, even if it's only a brief visit.
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?110622-50-Years-On-1971-a-Year-of-Great-Films

[Stavros]

Lol he actually does!

Thanks, for the memory...true. This is not the place to demolish the reputation of Kubrick. I used to know someone who worked with Stanley on 2001: A Space Odyssey, only to discover after all the work she did that her scene was cut out of the film.

Kubrick could make a dazzling film about Musk, it would look fantastic of course, but would not be able to disguise the mendacious, auto-pomposity of a man who doesn't really know what to do with all that money and power: a perfect example of Kubrick's cynical dismissal of humanity. There is no 'black humour' in his films, just a tedious repetition of the cod anthropology of the kind found in William Golding's Lord of the Flies -humans cannot change their essential nature: greedy and violent.

[Fitzcarraldo]

cod anthropology

Your analysis sounds fishy.

[filghy2]

Kubrick could make a dazzling film about Musk, it would look fantastic of course, but would not be able to disguise the mendacious, auto-pomposity of a man who doesn't really know what to do with all that money and power: a perfect example of Kubrick's cynical dismissal of humanity.

Citizen Musk? Would you prefer a film that disguised his mendacious auto-pomposity?

[Stavros]

Citizen Musk? Would you prefer a film that disguised his mendacious auto-pomposity?

I think we can now separate a debate on films, from real life.

Consider in its American context, the difference between one man, William Randolph Hearst, who became rich through his media business, and Andrew Carnegie, who made a fortune in steel, and then gave a lot of it away, with Carnegie Hall probably his most famous legacy. Yes, Carnegie was one of the Robber Barons, but historians have tied themselves in knots trying to decide if there is a moral case to answer, while having to acknowledge that the last quarter of the 19th century was a transforming time, and that the 'big industrialists' helped to shape modern America as an industrial leader of the world.
Robber baron (industrialist) - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist))

A comparison can be made with Bill Gates, who with a relatively small team at first, has helped transform the world of personal communication that was beyond most people's imagination when I was born. I am sure Gates has his flaws, but he has used a lot of his wealth for the public good, notably with regard to global public health projects.

And yes, Musk is a cutting edge kind of guy, he is intent on making space travel common, which I think is a really long shot, and if there is anything in his neural technology than can benefit people with severe disabilities, he will be worthy of a mention in the history books.

The odium comes with his personal views, his behaviour as a CEO which is shall we say unconventional, but sadly typical of a man with so much money and power he believes his own propaganda. The link below delves into the issues around the pay dispute that was the subject of a court case in Delaware, but is mostly interesting not for any social benefits derived from his business, but the roster of family and friends who have been instrumental in awarding Musk financial rewards that they themselves have also profited from.
Judge Voids Elon Musk’s Tesla Pay Package In Rare Victory For Shareholders (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/judge-voids-elon-musk-tesla-222359109.html)

Edward Heath, former Prime Minister of the UK once remarked on the 'unacceptable face of Capitalism', and one can lump Musk in with Rupert Murdoch as villains of our age, even as Murdoch was also a transformative influence in the media (in my view in a negative way).

Thus, we have reached an age when in the UK, Russia and the US there are Billionaires who seem, like Fafner, to sit on their wealth, rather than invest it in people. The consequence in Russia is that a country of some importance and fabulous wealth is incapable of producing its own computer chips, having decided that when the option is 'make or buy' they buy, a similar problem for the oil-rich monarchies of Arabia.

In the UK it means we have underfunded social services, but also a chronic lack of investment in jobs and industry, whatever the future might be. Buying and selling property seems to be more satisfactory than investing in people.

In the US, Musk would prefer to house rich people on Mars than the poor in San Francisco. If the top 100 US billionaires loved their country more than they love their money, there would be no homeless people living on the streets; there would be adequate facilities for asylum seekers and immigrants, and children would be attending well funded schools preparing them for life in the 21st century with the curriculum it demands.

If Musk is too self-absorbed to give away his money, ditto all the others, the time has come to take it away from them.

I think there might be a film in there somewhere, but you wouldn't want losers like Kubrick or David Lynch to make it.

[broncofan]

Yes, I remember now that he dismissed Kubrick's films. Welcome back, even if it's only a brief visit.
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?110622-50-Years-On-1971-a-Year-of-Great-Films
Thanks. I will be back for sure but I've taken some time off just bc i've had a lot going on at work. Then i thought i was probably spending too much time staring at a screen anyway. But I still read the threads here on my phone during the day.

[Stavros]

What a dope. Is he concerned about those other 'one party states', like Wyoming, Texas and Wisconsin, to name just three, and the means used by that one party to secure power? When he colonises Mars, will it be a multi-party democracy?

Elon Musk blasts Biden as he sensationally accuses him of plot to make a 'one-party state' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/elon-musk-blasts-biden-as-he-sensationally-accuses-him-of-plot-to-make-a-one-party-state/ar-BB1hLcn5?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ACTS&cvid=0cc49f933c9b428ecc2fa6303435d1db&ei=48)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

What a dope. Is he concerned about those other 'one party states', like Wyoming, Texas and Wisconsin, to name just three, and the means used by that one party to secure power? When he colonises Mars, will it be a multi-party democracy?

Elon Musk blasts Biden as he sensationally accuses him of plot to make a 'one-party state' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/elon-musk-blasts-biden-as-he-sensationally-accuses-him-of-plot-to-make-a-one-party-state/ar-BB1hLcn5?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ACTS&cvid=0cc49f933c9b428ecc2fa6303435d1db&ei=48)Completely agree Elon-Right Wing Loving Assclown-Musk is a dope. The more he opens his mouth,the more idiotic he sounds.

[Stavros]

So, Elon Musk sings from the same song sheet as the Ambassador to the Court of St James from the New Soviet Union, or Novyy Sovetskiy Soyuz, or новый советский союз for the Trolls in St Petersburg with a dark sexual secret lurking in these pages...

But if the New Soviet Union cannot be beaten, the obvious alternative question is: can it win?

One wonders if Mr Musk, his friend in London, and probably Tucker Carlson -who now prefers Moscow to any city in the USA- agree with the Party Line.

Spasibo, tovarishchi

Elon Musk says the US should stop sending aid to Ukraine as there's 'no way in hell' Putin will lose (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-says-us-stop-114746499.html)

Putin's UK Ambassador Boasts 'Russia Cannot Be Beaten At All' (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/putins-uk-ambassador-boasts-russia-140112052.html)

[Stavros]

I am aware that people working for Elon Musk have done great things with technology -at some point if it is proprietary now, it will in time become universal, with or without him and his company taking a cut of the profits.

But this is beyond obscene, it is almost without meaning. The meaning that it has, that Musk did not get a salary also does not make sense -did he not have shares in the company?

Then irony is he is so rich he could exist without the salary 99% of workers rely on. But the figure- no, it is simply wrong, and I can't understand the shareholders who would approve it, as it makes a mockery of that elusive thing called a 'business decision'.

When CEO salaries went through the roof 20-25 years ago, we were told in a global economy it was market rates. Are CEO salaries or more importantly, annual income, to be measured in Billions? But can we stop it?

"Tesla’s shares are down 28% this year. It has warned of “notably” slower growth (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/apr/23/tesla-tsla-earnings-report-cybertruck) as sales in its second-largest market, China, fall. A defect forced a recall (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/apr/19/tesla-cybertruck-recall) of its highly anticipated latest product. The chief executive spends a lot of time at other companies or generating controversy. How do you reward him? With a record-breaking $56bn pay deal, if Tesla gets its way at its annual meeting on Thursday.
"Denholm [Tesla Chair] appealed to shareholders again last week, saying there was a risk Musk would step back from Tesla (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/jun/07/elon-musk-may-step-back-if-shareholders-reject-56bn-pay-package-tesla-chair-warns) if they did not back his pay package this week. “If Tesla is to retain Elon’s attention and motivate him to continue to devote his time, energy, ambition and vision to deliver comparable results in the future, we must stand by our deal,” she wrote."
Tesla leads charge to defend Elon Musk’s $56bn pay package | Executive pay and bonuses | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/08/tesla-leads-charge-to-defend-elon-musks-56bn-pay-package)

[Fitzcarraldo]

Har-har!
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-backs-down-45-213513039.html

[Stavros]

No 10 criticises Elon Musk for ‘civil war is inevitable’ post on England riots | UK news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/05/no-10-criticises-elon-musk-post-x-riots)

What does the ignorant American achieve by forming an alliance with 'Tommy Robinson'? It's not like there is any money to be made, while the reputation of X as a platform for Neo-Nazis, Fascists and anarchic trouble makers who use democracy to destroy it is secure. What happens when someone dies because of the 'recreational violence' that is happening on the streets of the UK? Does Musk even care about that?

[Stavros]

Some more on the owner of X, the Platform of Hate. Again, what is Musk's motives given that he is not making any money out of the hate and violence in the UK? And why has he not investigated, or asked questions about the Russian connections to the violence in the UK which has followed the election of a Labour Govt that Musk- and Putin- obviously do not approve of?

As for 'the Base', which may or may not have traction in the US, this Russian-based Nazi outfit may in reality be ineffective, but such people only need to be 'lucky' once, whereas their victims need to be lucky all the time. And if you are wondering where you heard that term 'the Base' before, think al-Qaeda, another world domination outfit, but one that has slumped into the shadows of war.

Maybe the UK Govt should announce it is no longer going to use X, the Platform of Hate as part of its PR, and declare the sick Maga-lo-Maniac Persona non Grata in the UK. As if he cared. Maybe he is about to go on holiday in Cyprus with his drug-peddling mate 'Tommy Robinson', though a hotel at £400 a night must sound like a slum to billionaires. But hey, it's Cyprus, so there are plenty of kebabs to eat.

Elon Musk wades into far-right riots row again as war of words with UK MPs grows | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/elon-musk-kier-starmer-uk-riots-posts-b2591881.html)

The Base-
Revealed: US neo-Nazi terror group aims to revive activities ahead of election | The far right | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/06/us-neo-nazi-base-election-rinaldo-nazzaro)

[Stavros]

Is it possible to believe in absolute free speech and democracy? Or is one a form of anarchism, and the other a form of social organization? Whatever it is, Musk seems reluctant to explain his sudden interest in the domestic politics of the UK.

UK disorder: What's Elon Musk's game? - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze5gd1jzkeo)

[Stavros]

'The Woke Mind Virus'....the spark that drove Musk into the arms of the 'anti-woke' conspiracy soaked right and away from the Democrats?

"According to Musk’s biographer Walter Isaacson, the transition of his child had a profound impact on Musk’s world view, with the rejection of him as a father triggering his descent towards fringe conspiracies and setting him on a trajectory towards becoming a leading figure in the culture war.When she turned 18 in April 2022, his daughter legally changed her name from Xavier Musk to Vivian Jenna Wilson, declaring to the court: “I no longer live with or wish to be related to my biological father in any way, shape or form.” Musk’s girlfriend at the time – Claire Boucher, known professionally as Grimes – told Isaacson that she had “never seen him as heartbroken about anything”."

"In an interview with Peterson last month, Musk publicly spoke about his reasoning behind his daughter’s estrangement for the first time – and the motivation it instilled in him to undergo his own political and moral transition (https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/elon-musk-trans-daughter-b2588278.htmlhttps://www.independent.co.uk/tech/elon-musk-trans-daughter-b2588278.html). “Essentially… my son is dead,” he said. “Killed by the woke mind virus. So I vowed to destroy the woke mind virus after that. And we’re making some progress.”
It has been a quick capitulation from centrist moderate to far right instigator for Musk. His tweet about finding the origin of the “woke mind virus” came just three months after tweeting: “I prefer to stay out of politics.”"
How Elon Musk’s radicalisation can be pinpointed to a single event (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/how-elon-musk-s-radicalisation-can-be-pinpointed-to-a-single-event/ar-AA1orj2A?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=EDGEESS&cvid=d1c1988d3d4247539e21dcb446d50009&ei=6)

I can't be sure what happened, I don't even know how much time the Dad spent with his Son and Daughter, or why one rejected the other, but I would like to think that in other families, the parent(s) would be more sympathetic or at least ask why, rather than blame some abstract other, for something that is so personal, but I am not him.

[Stavros]

Farage and Musk, the double act of lies and disinformation. Two tier policing? It's been common for decades, just ask a Black Briton. Open borders? Every country with a coastline knows it cannot police every inch of it, that doesn't make it an 'open border' in the sense NF means it. As for the 'Woke Stasi' -when is this abuse of the English language going to stop? It makes a mockery of the facts, and may be why Farage is losing support, probably Musk too though that might be harder to quantify, just as the rioters in the UK seem to realize they have lost the plot, though they haven't gone away.

Farage reaches out to Elon Musk as he rages about ‘open borders’ media conspiracy as approval ratings plummet (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nigel-farage-doubles-down-southport-141742641.html)

[Stavros]

The power of X, with regret. Is there really no alternative? What actually would happen if the Govt abandoned it? They have a press centre in No 10 after all, it cost the tax payer millions.

Labour needs X to get its message out however much it may wish it didn’t | X | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/aug/08/labour-needs-x-to-get-its-message-out-however-much-it-may-wish-it-didnt)

[Stavros]

"Let’s remind ourselves who brought Robinson and a whole slew of far-right agitators back in from the cold, thereby putting X out of step with the likes of YouTube and Facebook. It was Musk, of course. He decided to make X a safe space for racism and hate almost as soon as he bought it. The effect was instant. One analysis of tweets found a “nearly 500% increase (https://www.brookings.edu/articles/why-is-elon-musks-twitter-takeover-increasing-hate-speech/) in use of the N-word in the 12-hour window immediately following the shift of ownership to Musk”. The same study also found that posts including “the word ‘Jew’ had increased fivefold since before the ownership transfer”, and something tells me those tweets weren’t tributes to the comic style of Mel Brooks."
You know who else should be on trial for the UK’s far-right riots? Elon Musk | Jonathan Freedland | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/09/uk-far-right-riots-elon-musk-x)

[Stavros]

Is this some sort of 'doom loop' in which people endorse each other even though they don't seem to believe in what they are doing and then lose the election anyway?

As for Kamala Harris being 'literally a Communist', it at least supports the view that whatever it is that Musk knows a lot about, politics and history ain't it. The curious thing being that Communism, as defined by Karl Marx is the consequence of revolution shaped by class struggle whose ultimate end is a social order in which there is no government, no taxation, no military, just absolute freedom. Lenin's version was that the socialist revolution would lead to 'the withering away of the State', so maybe if Musk read more closely, he might conclude he is the Communist.

"Musk’s US political interventions could be more consequential. He endorsed Trump after the failed assassination attempt (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/14/trump-joins-long-list-of-us-presidents-and-candidates-targeted-by-assassins) last month, and since then he has posted regularly supporting the Republicans. On Wednesday, he said the Democrat presidential candidate Kamala Harris was “quite literally a communist”.Trump is not an obvious bedfellow for the boss of the world’s largest electric carmaker. Trump has relentlessly mocked electric cars, although he appeared to change his position last weekend, citing Musk’s support (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/aug/05/trump-endorses-electric-vehicles-elon-musk). In Ohio local media, Trump’s running mate, JD Vance, has railed against EV subsidies that benefit Tesla.
Michael Tesler, the professor of political science at University of California, Irvine, pointed to polling showing that US Democrats object to Musk much more than Republicans, even though the latter are much less likely to buy electric cars."
‘His rhetoric has made Tesla toxic’: is Elon Musk driving away his target market? | Automotive industry | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/aug/10/his-rhetoric-has-made-tesla-toxic-is-elon-musk-driving-away-his-target-market)

[Stavros]

Does his Dad still have any influence on the lad? I think it is time for an adult to intervene-

"Elon Musk (https://www.express.co.uk/latest/elon-musk) has dared Humza Yousaf (https://www.express.co.uk/latest/humza-yousaf) to sue him after the tech billionaire described Scotland's former First Minister as "super-racist against white people".A post on the social media site said Mr Yousaf is reportedly not ruling out legal action against the X boss over comments saying Yousaf "loathes white people".

The tweet goes on to quote Mr Humza's lawyer Aamer Anwar who said: "Elon has effectively painted a target on Yousaf's back with his completely untrue and inflammatory comments."
In response, Mr Musk today replied saying: "He's obviously super-racist against white people. I dare that scumbag to sue me. Go ahead, make my day."".
Elon Musk dares Humza Yousaf to sue and calls him a 'super-racist scumbag' in public row (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/elon-musk-dares-humza-yousaf-to-sue-and-calls-him-a-super-racist-scumbag-in-public-row/ar-AA1oCr41?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=EDGEESS&cvid=362294e9651d45f190f367b3e32e770b&ei=8)

[Stavros]

If only he kept his mouth shut and focused on things that matter -the technology to take the Dis out of Disabled, using his billions to house the homeless in his State rather than house his mates on Mars. Re-usable rockets, Evs, and so on. But no, all that money and a giant Ego means that HE is entitled in a way you are I or not, even though, as Marina Hyde put it today Musk is "a tech boss being unable to organise a tech event on a tech platform"
So Donald chatted with Elon, and here’s the future as they see it – losers win, incompetence rules | Marina Hyde | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/13/donald-trump-elon-musk-x-twitter-politician-tech)

But this is where one wonders what he has for brains-
""Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed but now they are full cities again," the multibillionaire owner of Tesla, SpaceX and X said."That's great, that's great," Mr Trump responded.
"It is not as scary as people think, basically," Mr Musk added."
Elon Musk draws fire for playing down impact of atomic bombing of Japan: ‘Not as scary as people think’ | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-japan-nuclear-attacks-b2595497.html)

Not scary, after all, 100,00 dead, a thriving city reduced to ruins. And no, that's not Gaza, but Hiroshima. Basically, this, Mr Musk-

https://beyondentertainmentblogdotcom.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/img_6373.jpg

[Stavros]

The Neuralink technology appears to be successful, it improves people's lives, but I think it would be better taken out of the ownership of Elon Musk, owner of X, the Platform of Hate and Lies, if only because this nauseating American Fascist wants everyone to have his gadget implanted into our brains, the sign of a Megalomaniac unfit to own a commercial company. The Tyrrell Corporation of Blade Runner is supposed to be both fiction, and a warning, not a model on which to base the further enslavement of human beings to someone like Musk.

Elon Musk wants to implant millions of Neuralink brain chip as new powers unveiled | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/elon-musk-neuralink-human-trials-b2600058.html)

[Stavros]

So here you have it, not just more dismissals of women in public life, as with JD Vance and his Childless Cat Ladies, but the resurrection of something Plato said in The Republic over two thousand years ago, in effect that Government is too important to be left to the little people, and should be the exclusive job of 'Philosopher Kings', or if you prefer, Men like Musk.

Note: Musk is quoting with approval from another source (in full in the link), thus

"“People who can’t defend themselves physically (women and low T men) parse information through a consensus filter as a safety mechanism,” the post reads.“Only high T alpha males and aneurotypical people (hey autists!) are actually free to parse new information with an objective ‘is this true?’ filter,” it adds. “This is why a Republic of high status males is best for decision making. Democratic, but a democracy only for those who are free to think.”".
Elon Musk suggests support for replacing democracy with government of ‘high-status males’ (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/elon-musk-suggests-support-for-replacing-democracy-with-government-of-high-status-males/ar-AA1pSyiZ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=EDGEESS&cvid=d794b1994df0414196142d7807b06d98&ei=13)

As for the 'Reich Effect', one hoped it was not Robert, but Wilhelm, not least because Musk has sired offspring in double digits, though we don't know if he enjoyed doing so, just as we might assume Herr Vance is now more concerned to repress sexual urges in case they lead to the downfall of Western -oops, I mean 'Judeo-Christian Civilization'...

"For Reich, impotence, a lack of pleasure from sex or an inability to have an orgasm, were symptoms of ill health and in need of treatment. He wanted nothing less than a sexual revolution, one which could liberate us from the uptight, aggressive authoritarianism of politics and state. Sexual prowess, Reich believed, didn't necessarily equate with a fulfilling sex-life. What matters is how much we can let ourselves go during sex to achieve full-body orgasm. For Reich the body language adopted by those in the military says all we need to know about sexual, psychological and emotional repression – stiff controlled body movements, tight pelvis, rigid jaw, unquestioning obedience and stifled emotions. Reich saw fascism as the 'frenzy of sexual cripples'. To him bigotry, violence and hatred all stem from a longing for love."
The godfather of the sexual revolution? | BPS (https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/godfather-sexual-revolution)

Or as Reich said, 'Fuck freely, comrades, it's healthy'...

[Stavros]

Mars awaits humanity....but not if Kamala Harris becomes President, according to The Boss with Many Brains

"“While I have many concerns about a potential Kamala regime, my absolute showstopper is that the bureaucracy currently choking America to death is guaranteed to grow under a Democratic Party administration,” Musk, who has endorsed Former President Donald Trump’s White House bid, wrote (https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1837908705683059166) on X Sunday.
“This would destroy [NASA’s] Mars program and doom humanity,” he added, calling the upcoming November election “a fork, maybe the fork, in the road of human destiny.”
Elon Musk says Kamala Harris presidency would 'destroy' Mars program (qz.com) (https://qz.com/elon-musk-kamala-harris-donald-trump-doomed-spacex-mars-1851654671)

Who would have thought the destiny of humankind lies in the lap of an as yet unelected President? But then, who would have thought that a multi-Billionaire thinks it is better to use billions of dollars housing rich people on Mars rather than house the homeless in San Francisco?

And who wants to spend the rest of their lives on Mars, never knowing what fresh air is, never feeling the sun on their face (unless it is the last thing they do), never taking the dog for a walk, or having coffee with friends at an open air cafe on a lazy afternoon?

Must be some goons out there willing to swap real life for a synthetic diet, and probably an early death.

[Stavros]

Not just powerful beyond the scope of most people, including Presidents, but dangerous too. Should one man have so much control over global resources?
Elon Musk has gained a concerning level of power over US national security | Robert Reich | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/26/elon-musk-us-national-security)

He is also a shameless liar, and a global fool, and he doesn't care, like JD Vance, he thinks it doesn't matter if you tell lies -only it does. Can nobody take away the positive technology from this strutting oaf and leave him to stew in his permanent state of hate?

""I don’t think anyone should go to the UK when they’re releasing convicted pedophiles in order to imprison people for social media posts," Mr Musk claimed on X.Earlier this month, the government released some prisoners to reduce prison overcrowding, but no sex offenders were included. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd1jxmrk11yo)"
Elon Musk hits back after being shunned from UK summit - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c756d56d2dro)

[Ben]

The Hidden Past of Elon Musk! (The Stuff You Don't Know) (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bw61UHtAWU)

[MrFanti]

The Hidden Past of Elon Musk! (The Stuff You Don't Know) (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bw61UHtAWU)

What makes this so hilarious to me is that he was the darling of the Democrats from about 2011 to 2020 or.

[filghy2]

What makes this so hilarious to me is that he was the darling of the Democrats from about 2011 to 2020 or.

Sensible people change their minds when the facts change. What do you do?

Until he purchased Twitter and came out as a right-wing super-troll people knew him only as the head of Tesla. Maybe they had a generally positive view, but there wasn't any reason to give him much thought as he wasn't constantly in their faces, as he is now.

[Stavros]

Just when you think Trump is unhinged from reality, up pops the richest man in the world to prove he can match his master with this

"“The reason I’m here in person is because Pennsylvania is so important to the future of the world,” Musk said at an event in the Philadelphia area hosted by America PAC, the super political action committee he created earlier this year.
“I think this election is going to decide the fate of America. And along with the fate of America, the fate of western civilization,” he added."
Musk Warns of ‘Mad Max’ or ‘Zombie Apocalypse’ Fate Under Harris (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/musk-warns-mad-max-zombie-222800786.html)

It is touching to think that this South African with a US passport is concerned at the fate of Shakespeare and Shostakovich in the land of the free and the home of the brave, but, well, I mean to say - Pennsylvania? Isn't that where you find the place known as the 'city of brotherly' to everyone except the people who live there? As for Mad Max and Zombie Apocalypse -is this supposed to be the rational replacement for Hannibal Lecter?

It is just all so mad, and plain crazy. Will it stop after November 5 -or is it January 5th? (Maybe Trump knows something we don't).

[Stavros]

More preposterous garbage from the Visionary Commander of Comms, not just the verifiable fact that Dominion voting machines were not used in Pennsylvania, or the $100 bribe to registered voters who sign a petition supporting free speech and the 2nd Amendment (that's the one that gives Americans the means to kill other Americans) -but this

"“the last thing I would do is trust a computer program.”"
Elon Musk and Marjorie Taylor Greene risk Dominion’s wrath with revived conspiracy theories (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/elon-musk-and-marjorie-taylor-greene-risk-dominion-s-wrath-with-revived-conspiracy-theories/ar-AA1swJMg?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ACTS&cvid=8ce9aa7c64334db4a618f944ddd0dc28&ei=2)

Hmmm...all those advances in science and engineering that the people who work for him have achieved, was none of it reliant on computing?

Let's hope Dominion sue him, he merits it.

[Stavros]

More garbage from the Visionary Commander of Comms

"Musk reiterated a litany of falsehoods tied to Trump’s campaign. He argued that the “constitution is literally under attack”, spread false claims about voting machines and said that a Trump loss in November could ultimately end American democracy. “I fear if Trump does not win, we are going to have a single-party state that is going to be like California, but actually worse,” he said."

And the man tipped to have a prominent job in Govt if Trump is President also said

"“I hate politics,” he said. “I just like building stuff. And making products that people love.”3
But he has never made anything, he gets other people -clever people- to do it for him.

Maybe this is the state of America in a nutshell

"The spectacle was both surreal and potentially illegal (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/21/election-shapiro-musk-1-million-giveaway). But no one here, not least Musk himself, seemed to care in the slightest."

Conspiracy theories and a $1m check: a night at Elon Musk’s surreal election giveaway | US elections 2024 | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/21/election-elon-musk-trump-pennsylvania)

[Stavros]

And even more garbage from the Visionary Commander of Comms

Set aside the Chic-fil-a nonsense, consider this which is now being repeated in various places, eg Jimmy Vance with Jake Tapper

"“I made a joke that was sort of misconstrued, that it was like, ‘Nobody even bothers to try to kill Kamala.’ That’s pointless. Why? They’ll just get another puppet,” he said. “Nobody even bothers. Nobody’s even tried to kill Biden.”“They’ve tried to kill Trump, twice,” he added. “Trump is not beholden to anyone and that’s why the machine is trying to kill him.”".
Elon Musk suggests Chick-fil-A be put in charge of the southern border in rambling hours-long town hall (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-suggests-chick-fil-152204190.html)

Who is this 'they'? The first shooter was alone, and a Republican; the guy off the Golf course was alone and voted Trump in 2016. And what 'machine' is he talking about? And who is the only person who has put murder and Harris and Biden in the same sentence?

The man being sued for running a 'lottery' in Pennsylvania.

What a wild weekend it was, with promises of more hysteria and lies to come.

[Stavros]

Illegal immigrants, rounded up and thrown out of the country....is the curtain about to fall on the spectacular career of this (illegal?) immigrant?

Elon Musk’s U.S. citizenship in jeopardy as billionaire's past faces scrutiny: report (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/elon-musk-s-u-s-citizenship-in-jeopardy-as-billionaire-s-past-faces-scrutiny-report/ar-AA1tilEw?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=EDGEESS&cvid=9e465b3ff52d49b489350c2bfbb500dc&ei=41)

[Stavros]

Guess who is laughing all the way to the bank? Companies in China? No problem, 'Daddy' will fix it for his boy. Amazing to think what suckers American consumers are: financing the very companies whose products they buy. That's like paying for it twice over. I guess this is the triumph of Capitalism, and sounds awfully like the process that Marx described in the second volume of Capital, but don't tell Daddy that, least of all his mega -or should that be Maga- Rich sonny boy.

'I made it all by myself, Ma' -something you won't hear from the latest American Robber Baron.

Opinion | How US Taxpayers Helped Elon Musk Become the Richest Man on Earth | Common Dreams (https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/elon-musk-wealth-tax-subsidies#:~:text=The%20federal%20government%2C%20 Politico%20points,the%20Obama%20administration%20i n%202010.%E2%80%9D)

[Stavros]

Details are lacking, but an intriguing analysis by the BBC suggests there is a contradiction between Trump's campaign promises, and his appointment of Elon Musk to slash the size of the Federal budget.

What the BBC has done is break down Federal spending into mandatory and discretionary spending, but to point out that while it is not know if the $2 trillion of cuts Musk proposes take place in one year (his work is said to last only 6 months) or the whole of the Trump term, the room for cuts is narrow.

Crucially, this:

"It’s also important to note that Donald Trump campaigned on a platform of making Social Security more financially generous, not less, by removing the income tax payable, external (https://www.crfb.org/blogs/donald-trumps-suggestion-end-taxation-social-security-benefits) on it. And, on defence, Trump said, external (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/platform) he would build an “iron dome missile defence shield” around America, implying greater spending in this area, not cuts."
Can Elon Musk cut $2 trillion from US government spending? - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdj38mekdkgo)

So at the same time that Musk wants to fire thousands of Federal employees, Trump may be trying to employ them.

As for who goes, it appears that the majority of Americans who work for the Federal Govt and its agencies are classed as White -are they natural Democrat voters?- , yet one wonders if the majority of the citizens who lose their jobs, if they do, will be Black. Some stats are here-

Three charts on diversity in the federal government's workforce (https://usafacts.org/articles/three-charts-on-diversity-in-the-federal-governments-workforce/)

[Stavros]

Oh dear, as if the Great Elon Musk was not enough, now we have his daddy (the biological version) sounding off about the UK, which according to him has gone back '400 years' to 'Tudor times', which, may I say, suggests the Daddy Don't Know Shit about England. Or maybe I have been living here so long I can't see what others do. At least in this Musk there is no importance. I don't even know why he was interviewed as I thought he and The Great Elon Musk were not talking to each other. As for those eyebrows....

Elon Musk’s father calls for Keir Starmer to step down as PM | News | Independent TV (https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/elon-musk-father-uk-politics-starmer-b2651234.html)

[Stavros]

This is getting silly now, it is like children claiming 'my dad can beat your dad any day' -I don't quite understand the bizarre stuff the Great Elon Musk comes up with, so divorced from reality - but maybe this is the point- he is detached from reality but is so convinced of his own prowess he can't tell the difference between sugar and salt, and doesn't care to. Real people were hurt in July, property was damaged, lives were threatened. Is there to be no accountability for the incitement to violence that takes place on media platforms?

Elon Musk to ‘summon MPs to US to explain threats to American citizens’ | Elon Musk | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/21/musk-to-summon-british-mps-to-the-us-to-explain-threats-to-american-citizens-uk-riots)

[filghy2]

I wonder how much of his behaviour could be explained by Asperger's syndrome. People with Asperger's are unable to grasp the understandings that normally underpin social relations. Perhaps the reason he responds in a childish way to criticism is that he lacks the social skills to come up with a more measured response.

Ths might also explain his sharp shift to the right in recent years. Perhaps he discovered that the perfect antidote to social awkwardness was to use his wealth to curry favour with the right and thereby buy popularity.

[Stavros]

I wonder how much of his behaviour could be explained by Asperger's syndrome. People with Asperger's are unable to grasp the understandings that normally underpin social relations. Perhaps the reason he responds in a childish way to criticism is that he lacks the social skills to come up with a more measured response.

Ths might also explain his sharp shift to the right in recent years. Perhaps he discovered that the perfect antidote to social awkwardness was to use his wealth to curry favour with the right and thereby buy popularity.

Interesting - had not thought of him that way. If he falls out with Trump that will be, as they say, 'interesting'...one common aspect of the 'right' is internal bickering and disagreement. It happened a lot with the three different parties Nigel Farage was leading, indeed has already happened with his Reform UK party. And Trump had multiple firings in his first term, but it doesn't mean the 'Yes' people will get what they want, as they now think they have total control. A few prominent exits and who knows, quite apart from the implications of the policies, tariffs, for example on the US economy. I think I read somewhere that The Great Elon Musk has taunted Jeff Bezos with the 'I am considerably richer than yo' stuff, the world being his playground.

Then this-

"I am trying to make life multiplanetary to maximize the probable lifespan of consciousness,"".
Jeff Bezos denies Elon Musk claim he urged people to sell their Tesla, SpaceX stock because Trump would lose - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-jeff-bezos-donald-trump-tesla-spacex-stock/)

Huh? An Australian response is in order here.

[Stavros]

Gotta luv these free market entrepreneurs... looks tasty for The Great Elon Musk, but for Trump?

"Musk’s relationship with Li, the second-highest ranking person in China, is especially close: Li was the party secretary for Shanghai in 2019, when Tesla opened its first overseas factory there, which is now Tesla’s biggest factory by output. It was built with loans (https://fortune.com/2019/03/08/tesla-china-funding-shanghai/) of $521m from Chinese-state owned banks, which were issued at favourable interest rates. The Shanghai government gave Tesla a beneficial corporate tax rate (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459021004599/tsla-10k_20201231.htm) of 15% between 2019 and 2023, lower than the standard 25%. Tesla also reportedly (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/world/asia/musk-china-tesla-explained.html#:~:text=Musk's%20fortune%20is%20tie d%20to,just%20under%20a%20year%2C%20Mr.) managed to become the first foreign auto company to be allowed to set up without a local partner."
Tesla’s path in China clears as Musk courts both Trump and Xi | Elon Musk | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/22/elon-musk-tesla-china-us-relationship-trump-xi-jinping)

'Tariffs? Not on my watch'...said the Master of the Universe

[Stavros]

What is wrong with this man? Set aside the fact that 'Tommy Robinson' is in prison because he is a serial breaker of the law, but what on earth is this?

"Elon Musk has labeled Britain a “tyrannical police state” while endorsing calls for a new election and boosting a video from a jailed far-right activist.".
Elon Musk calls Britain a police state, taunts PM Starmer and boosts Tommy Robinson (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/elon-musk-britain-police-state-starmer-election-tommy-robinson-rcna181593)

What is Musk's definition of a 'tyrannical police state'? I went into town this morning, without being stopped and questioned or searched by the police. The 'tyrannical police state' has not shut down the Mail, or the Telegraph or Rupert Murdoch's papers.

He is a troublemaker, and using his platform to spread lies and division, and for what? A referendum? Less than 6 months after a General Election, just because he doesn't like the result? When it comes to tyranny, maybe The Great Elon Musk should look in the mirror.

Madness.

[filghy2]

Two years ago Citizen Musk said that we wasn't supporting Trump for President because he was too old. Now he is sounding increasingly like a Trump clone, accusing the man who testified against Trump in his first impeachment trial of treason.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/elon-musk-trump-impeachment-vindman-treason-b2654951.html

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but how long will it be before Trump grows tired of this guy acting like he is the power behind the throne (as he did with Steve Bannon in his first term)? He has already made comments about Elon hanging around Mar-a-Lago too much.

[Stavros]

Two years ago Citizen Musk said that we wasn't supporting Trump for President because he was too old. Now he is sounding increasingly like a Trump clone, accusing the man who testified against Trump in his first impeachment trial of treason.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/elon-musk-trump-impeachment-vindman-treason-b2654951.html

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but how long will it be before Trump grows tired of this guy acting like he is the power behind the throne (as he did with Steve Bannon in his first term)? He has already made comments about Elon hanging around Mar-a-Lago too much.

I guess Vindman has to decide whether or not to sue Musk, given that Musk has unlimited funds and can use lawyers to drag any case out so long it either bankrupts Vindman or makes it impossible for him to proceed, which is a tried and tested Trump tactic in law.
'Libelous on its face': Internet critics blast Musk's 'disgusting' treason accusation (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/libelous-on-its-face-internet-critics-blast-musk-s-disgusting-treason-accusation/ar-AA1uSIN2)

When it comes to treason, if it were proven that Russia was at war with the US when it interfered in the 2016 election, the 100+ contacts the Trump campaign had with Russians would have been an indictable offence, but Mueller's brief was I think skewed in Trump's favour, unable to prove that the contacts with the Russians were financially beneficial or knowingly conspiring against the US though I think that is debatable. By dismissing the Report before it was published, AG Barr managed to deflect the debate on why the Trump campaign had so many direct contact with 'Putin's People' - something Trump has also dismissed in spite of the prosecutions that did follow. 'Russia Russia Russia' also begs the question, Why Russia? 100+ contacts with Russia, but not allies of the US in either North America, say Canada, or the EU, and not China. And no mention by Mueller of the Russian Mafia laundering money in Trump's New Jersey Casinos, or his 'business relationship' with Felix Sater. I guess none of this matters now, unless 'Colonel' Gabbard revives the 'Why Russia?' question.
Key Findings of the Mueller Report | ACS (https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/)

The situation with The Great Elon Musk may lead to a repeat of what happened in Trump's first term re tariffs -some of which must be damaging to Musk's overseas operations, not just in China, thus

"The columnist built his case in his Friday opinion piece by offering readers as an example the “uneven rollout of tariffs” in Trump’s first term when the administration became “besieged by lobbyists, who filed thousands of requests for special exemptions and carve-outs to allow their clients to import goods and parts without paying the tariffs.”
"Waldman said Trump’s new proposal (https://www.rawstory.com/trump-tariffs-2670150949/?utm_source=msn) on tariffs, which promises to be more comprehensive than what he’s seen through in the past, “is a preview of the corruption to come.”“In a second term, Trump won’t just be doling out favors; he’ll also deliver punishments,” Waldman wrote.
He concluded by reminding readers that the public is familiar with how personal Trump's views are toward companies and their CEOs, with the “determining factor” being “whether they treat him like the king he imagines himself to be.”".
Trump’s 'terrible' proposal is 'a preview of the corruption to come': columnist (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/trump-s-terrible-proposal-is-a-preview-of-the-corruption-to-come-columnist/ar-AA1uSysU?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=EDGEESS&cvid=f66dac925e4d4832b485d160cbd47061&ei=36)


Come the mid-terms Trump might wish he was somewhere else

with kings and rulers of the earth, who built for themselves places now lying in ruins

[Stavros]

A fool and his money are soon parted....

"Elon Musk (https://www.standard.co.uk/topic/elon-musk) is reportedly planning to donate $100 million to Nigel Farage (https://www.standard.co.uk/topic/nigel-farage) in a bid to shake up British (https://www.standard.co.uk/topic/british) politics (https://www.standard.co.uk/topic/politics) ahead of the next election.The Tesla and X (formerly Twitter) boss, who has openly supported Donald Trump in recent months and spoke at a Republican rally (https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/donald-trump-elon-musk-bromance-b1192335.html), is said to be considering backing the far-right Reform UK party.".
Elon Musk tipped to give $100m to Nigel Farage in move to shake up British politics (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/elon-musk-tipped-to-give-100m-to-nigel-farage-in-move-to-shake-up-british-politics/ar-AA1v44IG?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=EDGEESS&cvid=3103044c5aed45f89af066ddf678b546&ei=62)

Two points-
1) I wonder if Americans would prefer The Great Elon Musk to spend $100m on them?

2) The Great Elon Musk should do some homework on Nigel Farage, not because of his modest wealth of c£4m, or Reform Party founder Richard Tice (c£40m), but because Farage has a track record of being a poor manager of political parties, as he is now into his third -UKIP, Brexit Party, Reform UK. All three have been dysfunctional because of the lack of vetting of candidates, with some people with views so eccentric or extreme even Farage had to disown them. Then there were the local councillors or Parliamentary candidates who had to be suspended, or expelled, or who resigned, in many cases having fallen out with Farage, as recently happened with Ben Habib. Farage himself is often absent without explanation, often in the US, and is rumoured to be a poor constituency MP. The idea that Reform UK is going to overtake the Conservative Party might not be a fantasy, largely due to the incoherence and divisions in the Conservatives, but Reform UK other than being an anti-immigrant and 'anti-Woke' party has little to offer, but who knows? There are also stricter rules on campaign financing in the UK than there are in the US, though I don't suppose The Great Elon Musk cares much about that.

[Stavros]

The Great Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy were in Congress to tell Republicans how their little Doggy is going to bark. Speaker Johnson wants most of the Federal Agencies abolished, particularly Public Service Broadcasting, and Planned Parenthood. Hard to know what will happen.

Point is, The Great Elon Musk carried one of his children on his shoulders into the building.

The boy's name is X Æ A-Xii, -how is that pronounced? Does he call him 'Junior', 'Hey, you!' 'Child!' or what? Is it fair to give a child something closer to a Barcode than a Proper Noun?

Elon Musk Meets With Lawmakers About ‘DOGE’ Crusade Against Government Spending (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-meets-lawmakers-doge-230415506.html)

Mike Johnson says he’s aiming to ax 75 percent of all federal agencies with Elon Musk’s help (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/mike-johnson-says-aiming-ax-180630223.html)

[Ben]

UFC Fighter Rips Elon To Shreds:

UFC Fighter Rips Elon To Shreds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNyMGXpdUHM)

[filghy2]

Looks like Citizen Musk is already getting a payoff for his investment in Trump.
Trump team set to end key vehicle safety rule opposed by Elon Musk's Tesla: report
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/trump-transition-recommends-scrapping-car-crash-reporting-requirement-opposed-by-2024-12-13/

Anyone who thinks Trump will not be a tool of corporate interests is a fool. The only corporate interests that will be hurt will be those who don't suck up to him.

[Ben]

Nigel Farage Plots UK TAKEOVER With Elon Musk: Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOO_seqiVsE)

[filghy2]

Who is running things in the Republican Party - Trump or Musk? Looks like they are going to shut down the US Government because Musk demanded it.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/19/trump-musk-johnson-cr-00195477

Do these guys have any plan, or do they just like chaos as an end in itself? It seems that Musk doesn't even know (or doesn't care) what was in the funding measure he just had blocked.
https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/the-chaos-monkeys-have-already-taken

Welcome to the next four years.

[Ben]

Who is running things in the Republican Party - Trump or Musk? Looks like they are going to shut down the US Government because Musk demanded it.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/19/trump-musk-johnson-cr-00195477

Do these guys have any plan, or do they just like chaos as an end in itself? It seems that Musk doesn't even know (or doesn't care) what was in the funding measure he just had blocked.
https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/the-chaos-monkeys-have-already-taken

Welcome to the next four years.

I'm guessing Mr. Musk will be the co-president. A man who was born in Pretoria and raised in Bryanston and constitutionally ineligible to be president will now be the de-facto co-president and put in place policies to substantially increase his own net worth which have reached levels of absolute absurdity...

British Journalist MERCILESSLY Destroys Elon Musk | The Kyle Kulinski Show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qns_qyYyh3E)

[Ben]

Trump and Musk have launched a new class war. In the UK, we must prepare to defend ourselves:
Trump and Musk have launched a new class war. In the UK, we must prepare to defend ourselves | George Monbiot | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/19/donald-trump-elon-musk-class-war-uk-us-oligarchies-democracy)

[MrFanti]

Trump and Musk have launched a new class war. In the UK, we must prepare to defend ourselves:
Trump and Musk have launched a new class war. In the UK, we must prepare to defend ourselves | George Monbiot | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/19/donald-trump-elon-musk-class-war-uk-us-oligarchies-democracy)

A UK Class War has already started - at least as far back as 2015 when this article was written.
The new class war: Excluding the working class in 21st-century Britain
https://www.ippr.org/articles/the-new-class-war-excluding-the-working-class-in-21st-century-britain

[Ben]

Elon Claims He Didn't Nazi Salute Trump's Inauguration Crowd (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hBcA4pzeYQ)

[Ben]

Vivek Accidentally Explains Why Elon’s Takeover Of US Agencies Is Illegal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0o5gl-U3jo)

[filghy2]

Elon Claims He Didn't Nazi Salute Trump's Inauguration Crowd (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hBcA4pzeYQ)

That guy is seriously weird. Reminds me of this scene from Doctor Strangelove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddWNMSUbcGI

[filghy2]

Good article on how Musk had USAid shut down on the basis of false conspiracy theories pushed by a few cranks on the fringes of the internet. This is how government works under the Trump/Musk regime. Dark times indeed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/doge/elon-musk-boosted-false-usaid-conspiracy-theories-global-aid-rcna190646

[Ben]

Good article on how Musk had USAid shut down on the basis of false conspiracy theories pushed by a few cranks on the fringes of the internet. This is how government works under the Trump/Musk regime. Dark times indeed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/doge/elon-musk-boosted-false-usaid-conspiracy-theories-global-aid-rcna190646

Indeed. Scary - and dark - times...
It seems Elon Musk, ineligible to be President... as he was born in South Africa, who nobody voted for, is pulling the strings in the Trump regime:

PROOF Elon Musk Is Pulling Trump’s Puppet Strings | The Kyle Kulinski Show - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqiUU8dT95c)

[filghy2]

Indeed. Scary - and dark - times...
It seems Elon Musk, ineligible to be President... as he was born in South Africa, who nobody voted for, is pulling the strings in the Trump regime:

We know that Trump is too lazy to focus on the details of governing, so it looks like he's happy to delegate it to the Muskrat. Musk just has to feed him some BS that appeals to Trump's vanity or prejudices and Trump will give the okay. If Musk goes too far and does something really unpopular, Trump will just make him the scapegoat and claim he knew nothing about it.

Meanwhile, the party that complains constantly about unelected bureaucrats has nothing to say about Musk usurping their Constitutional role.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/fox-news-reporter-grills-rep-mike-johnson-about-elon-musk-s-role-in-trump-admin/ar-AA1ywHuq?ocid=BingNewsSerp

[filghy2]

Another article on DOGE's role at the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, the latest government agency to be summarily shut down despite it being established by an act of Congress. There seems to be obvious potential for confict of interest, with Muskrat's minions gaining access to lots of banking and finance data, while Musk is planning to enter the financial payments business.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2025-02-10/doge-backed-halt-at-cfpb-comes-amid-musk-s-plans-for-x-digital-wallet?

[filghy2]

More on Muskrat's evidence-free claims about massive fraud and waste.
https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/elon-musk-thinks-americans-are-stupid

[filghy2]

Here's one area of US Government spending you can bet will not be cut.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/elon-musk-government-contracts-spacex-b2700645.html

"According to federal data analyzed by The Independent, Musk's own companies have been promised or awarded nearly $21 billion by the U.S. government since 2008.

The cash was still flowing as of Feb 17, with another $76.7 million promised since Donald Trump's inauguration."

[Ben]

Elon Musk’s WEIRD Impregnation Fetish Exposed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7bzw8_MJpA)