Build Back Better? Bitch Please!

[Nick Danger]

So you think the Biden administration's Build Back Better plan is a big winner. Gonna fix the ecosystem, feed the poor, house the homeless, heal the sick, and babysit the kids all at the same time. Well, here's the conservative view of the various inclusions. Keep in mind that these are billions of dollars we're talking about here, a single $billion being virtually impossible for the average citizen to wrap his brain around. Try.

$555 Billion for clean-energy subsidies. This is actually one of the least egregious parts of the bill. It's designed to provide financial incentive for private citizens to move away from carbon emitting products, and for manufacturers to provide more carbon-efficient products. It will almost certainly result in more electric cars on the road and more solar panels on roofs. It will also create a "Civilian Conservation Corps," i.e. a very expensive joke on the American public. Still, if the bill were just this, it would be something worth re-writing and passing.

$400 Billion for universal pre-K. This is where things start to get scary. They've got your child's mind to mold for 12 years no matter what you do. Now they'll have him for 15 and the extra 3 years they're getting are the most formative years of all. Also, this is socialism, plain and simple. I.E., I don't have any kids so why the fuck am I paying for your daycare problem? Maybe should have thought about that before you decided to get knocked up by a deadbeat.

$200 Billion for child tax credits. Again, socialism. Welfare. I didn't have your children, you did. Now pay. I'm not going to be the one welcoming your grandchildren. I do not give a shit about your children. They may be cute now but 95% of the time they're just going to grow up to be one more asshole in an ocean of assholes. YOU give a shit. No one else does.

$200 Billion for 4 weeks of paid maternity/paternity leave. Eh, actually I'm kind of in favor of this sooo...

$165 Billion for expanding Obamacare. I'm also in favor of socialized medicine now that I've witnessed the U.S. pharmaceutical juggernaut utterly fail to create an effective vaccine for Covid, sooo...

$150 Billion for affordable housing. Socialism. You need a government house? How about a government car? And a government breakfast, government gas, government coffee, government lunch, government snack, government childcare, government healthcare; hell, after all that you ought to be able to buy yourself a nice dinner! No? Government dinner too? You, uh, do realize that I'm paying for all that right? WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU IF I GO AWAY? Do you have any personal pride whatsoever?

None of this has to be pushed through Congress collectively. Each and every section of the bill could easily be considered its own issue and be legislated separately. But that would eliminate a shit-ton of government graft.

All this is to be accomplished by raising taxes on corporations and the self-employed. What do corporations do when you raise their taxes? Move to another country. What do the self-employed do when you raise their taxes? Move their money to another country. The USA - Land of the Tax Exiles and Home of the Charity Cases? Only if the Financial Suicide Bill passes the Senate.

[filghy2]

Keep in mind that these are billions of dollars we're talking about here, a single $billion being virtually impossible for the average citizen to wrap his brain around. Try.

Easy. US GDP is currently $23 trillion. A billion dollars is only 0.004% of that. I'm pretty sure those are 10-year totals, so what you've listed there is just 0.6% of GDP over that period. Not exactly turning the US into a socialist state.

[Nick Danger]

Easy. US GDP is currently $23 trillion. A billion dollars is only 0.004% of that. I'm pretty sure those are 10-year totals, so what you've listed there is just 0.6% of GDP over that period. Not exactly turning the US into a socialist state.

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter what it costs us to house, feed, medicate, and provide babysitters for the lazy and unmotivated, it's a relatively small portion of the budget, that's true. The point is that it's AVAILABLE to these people. Living off of other people's tax dollars SHOULDN'T BE AN OPTION AT ALL. If it weren't, lazy people would be forced to do the things they're otherwise too lazy to do. It's a simple philosophical issue, not a budgetary one. There's this mass delusion that it takes something special to become financially independent in the USA. Simply not true, all that's required is hard work and personal responsibility. Liberals are asking us to participate in the delusion that there's some excluded class. Well there is an excluded class - lazy people. Excluding lazy people is how we became the most powerful nation in the history of the planet.

[filghy2]

Well there is an excluded class - lazy people. Excluding lazy people is how we became the most powerful nation in the history of the planet.

If your country wants to stay in that position, perhaps it should focus more on excluding stupid people.

Most civilised countries do not take your simplistic viewpoint, and they manage to function quite well - in fact, better than the USA on many measures. All that constant striving to get ahead does not seem to make you a happier country.
https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2020/social-environments-for-world-happiness/

[Nick Danger]

If your country wants to stay in that position, perhaps it should focus more on excluding stupid people.

Most civilised countries do not take your simplistic viewpoint, and they manage to function quite well - in fact, better than the USA on many measures. All that constant striving to get ahead does not seem to make you a happier country.
https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2020/social-environments-for-world-happiness/

Well, let's be frank, Flighty, all your little Mom and Pop countries would be speaking Russian or Chinese now if it weren't for the good old American war machine, always looking for any excuse to find a little backwoods war and burn up some military hardware to boost the economy. And I doubt you're happier than me anyway, Flighty, you're always looking for something to complain about.

[filghy2]

And I doubt you're happier than me anyway, Flighty, you're always looking for something to complain about.

Lol, you are the one who seems to be plagued by various exaggerated fears and grievances, even though you apparently live a comfortable existence in one of the safest parts of the country. Rather than being grateful for your good fortune, you seem to be consumed by downwards envy about any of the less fortunate getting a penny of your taxes.

Goodwill to all men, Mr Scrooge? Bah humbug!!

[Nick Danger]

Lol, you are the one who seems to be plagued by various exaggerated fears and grievances, even though you apparently live a comfortable existence in one of the safest parts of the country. Rather than being grateful for your good fortune, you seem to be consumed by downwards envy about any of the less fortunate getting a penny of your taxes.

Goodwill to all men, Mr Scrooge? Bah humbug!!

I have to assume at this point that you're simply being obtuse, Flighty. The classic liberal spin on program politics is that Republicans are stingy and don't want to share their wealth with the poor, downtrodden Democrats. The reality is that we're the parents, Democrats are the children, and any money we try to withhold is in the interest of INCREASING the prosperity of the lower economic classes.

There have to be consequences for irresponsible living. Simple as that. Let children play for as long as they want and they will literally play until they fall out of a tree unconscious, I've done it before.

I do charity, Flighty. I donate to a few regularly, for tax reasons and also because I like to feel I'm contributing - the ASPCA gets more of my money than anyone else, I'm much more charitable to creatures who can't talk. Person-to-person I'm pretty generous, both with my time and my money. I'm the guy who will hold up everyone at the red light to buy one of those little newspapers from the homeless guy on the corner even if I already have a few copies of that issue littering my floorboard. When I go to Vegas I almost always dedicate an hour or so to finding the shittiest-looking bum I can find and dropping a c-note on him, I don't care that he's going to spend it on booze and crack, I want him to spend it on booze and crack, have a good day for once, by his own standards. I've been known to park at a homeless encampment and order 20 pizzas, and I've also camped out for a few hours and smoked weed and drank beer with the homeless, on my dime. Until a couple weeks ago I was working as a goddamn candy-striper at the local hospital 4 hours a week, because they put out the call and I had the time. Girl Scouts, Cub Scouts, pee wee football, baseball, and soccer teams, high school and college kids of all races and genders, these are all people who have met with success on my front porch selling me whatever the fuck it was they were selling for whatever the fuck their cause is. I fix friends' cars for free if they're in a pinch. If I pass you broken down on the side of the road, I don't care if you're white, brown, black, yellow, purple, rich, poor, young, old, male, female, if I have time and my tools, I'll stop and try to get you rolling again. I'm not heartless, and I don't need anyone's opinion on whether I'm right about that or not. What I am is sensible.

And while you may very well represent the voice of the unmotivated masses, Flighty, most people are actually a lot like me. Working, paying bills, trying to get some exercise, going to clubs or concerts, taking trips, helping others AS SEEMS REASONABLE, but mostly just living life, because they've worked hard to reap life's little rewards, and quite little they are, Flighty, one hardly notices them after a few years as a responsible adult. And you know what those responsible, hard-working people want more than anything? To be left alone. Because they all know the reason you're in financial trouble is you and your choices. Not society, not your color, not your religion, not your gender, just you.

[filghy2]

I have to assume at this point that you're simply being obtuse, Flighty. The classic liberal spin on program politics is that Republicans are stingy and don't want to share their wealth with the poor, downtrodden Democrats. The reality is that we're the parents, Democrats are the children, and any money we try to withhold is in the interest of INCREASING the prosperity of the lower economic classes.

Again, you ignore the empirical point that every other developed country is more generous is assisting people with lower incomes, yet they have not ended up with more poverty. In fact, the US has much more inequality than most other developed countries, which seems to give the lie to your claim that limiting benefits helps the poor.

Your personal generosity is commendable, but it seems a bit contradictory. If you don't want the government giving people money because it only makes them lazy and irresponsible, why does the same thing not apply to you giving them money or other things. Giving $100 to a random homeless guy sounds like the least effective way to help the poor. You say you are happy for him to spend it on booze or crack, but what would your attitude be if a welfare recipient did the same?

[Nick Danger]

Again, you ignore the empirical point that every other developed country is more generous is assisting people with lower incomes, yet they have not ended up with more poverty. In fact, the US has much more inequality than most other developed countries, which seems to give the lie to your claim that limiting benefits helps the poor.

Your personal generosity is commendable, but it seems a bit contradictory. If you don't want the government giving people money because it only makes them lazy and irresponsible, why does the same thing not apply to you giving them money or other things. Giving $100 to a random homeless guy sounds like the least effective way to help the poor. You say you are happy for him to spend it on booze or crack, but what would your attitude be if a welfare recipient did the same?

Welfare checks come once a month, Flighty. I never come around again. There's a difference. People can live off welfare but they can't live off me.

Frankly, even though I do tend to apply a lot of my personal charitable feelings toward the homeless, I've never felt particularly compelled to help them better their lives. I want them to. But that's this whole project that involves real internal change and a lot of transitional processes, and I'm not interested in undertaking that project. What I do know about a homeless guy I see is that he's hurting, and I can ease his pain for a little while. I see a group and I can feed them. Or I can hang out for a while and treat them like humans, like no one else has that day. I mean, the here and now is where life is being lived, I can't change your life but I can be here now.

Edit: Sorry forgot to address your first point. I really think you should move away from holding up American-supported European countries as models of how not to be like America. Yeah, you guys have plenty of peace and prosperity and equality and all that. Meanwhile we have a devil's bargain to keep. On your behalf.

[broncofan]

Nick, you are not averse to sharing personal details and while I'm not asking for anything really specific, what kind of tax is it that you are fearing? I don't love material things as much as the average person but do like being comfortable and being able to buy what I want without stress (in addition to paying for necessities and out of pocket healthcare costs). What kind of tax is changing your standard of living? I never understand this.

I never shared this but I own some commercial real estate. The number of tax benefits and write-offs that our tax code provides is unreal. If for instance depreciation schedules were not as aggressive or the irs changed how much could be written off as 5 or 15 year property my taxes would be different. My life wouldn't. And frankly, I'm not paying attention to every penny the government spends but if my tax dollars could buy healthcare for people or student loan forgiveness or disability payments wouldn't we be a better country?

[broncofan]

$165 Billion for expanding Obamacare. I'm also in favor of socialized medicine now that I've witnessed the U.S. pharmaceutical juggernaut utterly fail to create an effective vaccine for Covid, sooo...

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2021/dec/us-covid-19-vaccination-program-one-year-how-many-deaths-and

The vaccines produced by Moderna and Pfizer had demonstrated 90% plus efficacy against infection and death. This was demonstrated by comparing vaccinated people to unvaccinated people. I'm in favor of Republicans not offering opinions on anything scientific as your views are childlike. How effective do you think a vaccine should be? How effective have vaccines been in the past? If efficacy is less than 100% doesn't that require lots of people to get the shots for a broad public benefit?

You have a virus circulating all over the world....is it that surprising that trillions of copies of virus in millions of people have resulted in variants? Do you think pharmaceutical companies were negligent for not anticipating exactly what mutations would take hold and spread?

[Nick Danger]

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2021/dec/us-covid-19-vaccination-program-one-year-how-many-deaths-and

The vaccines produced by Moderna and Pfizer had demonstrated 90% plus efficacy against infection and death. This was demonstrated by comparing vaccinated people to unvaccinated people. I'm in favor of Republicans not offering opinions on anything scientific as your views are childlike. How effective do you think a vaccine should be? How effective have vaccines been in the past? If efficacy is less than 100% doesn't that require lots of people to get the shots for a broad public benefit?

You have a virus circulating all over the world....is it that surprising that trillions of copies of virus in millions of people have resulted in variants? Do you think pharmaceutical companies were negligent for not anticipating exactly what mutations would take hold and spread?

I don't think anyone was negligent, Bronco, I am simply not going to continue to support private medicine if they can't produce results. For years I've made the argument that sure, healthcare in the USA is expensive, and everyone else has socialized medicine, BUT...when the chips are down our for-profit medical industry will shine! It didn't. So fuck 'em, I'm socialized medicine from here out, my speculation that they had achieved a heightened level of competence based on free-market pressures was the only factor in their favor.

Far as the vaccine being effective, eh, I don't buy any of the statistics, from you or anyone else. Even the numbers have become propaganda thanks to the partisan media. One thing I do know is that a lot of fully-vaccinated people continue to get and transmit the virus. Also, I'm a bit of an unreasonable hardass about this thing anyway, you tell me 5 million people have died and I think that's not nearly enough.

Again, though, and for the umpteenth time, if you think the vaccine will help you, you should get it. I don't hold you in contempt at all for trembling in fear over a virus that's barely dangerous. Tremble for decades for all I care.

[broncofan]

The immune system is a quirky thing. It's not a reflection of someone's character or toughness. It might be a reflection of how well someone slept the night before they were exposed to a virus, what their diet has been like recently, or whether they have a lot of stress in their life. I am going to get vaccinated whenever it's authorized and try not to get infected. In my defense, I deal perfectly well with physical injuries like a broken foot or a torn muscle but I've gotten sick before and not cleared it well so I'd be stupid not to be careful.

It's simply not true that the virus is barely dangerous. It's killed 800,000 people and is killing 1,000 more a day. Yes most of those people are older but there are plenty of 30 and 40 year olds who have died or been ventilated for an extended period of time and have permanent complications.

BTW Pfizer just tested an antiviral pill that is 89% effective in preventing serious disease. It's called Paxlovid. You're free to think the clinical trial results are fraudulent.

Maybe one reason you're having trouble with the numbers is because of the magnitude of them. If a vaccine is 90% effective in preventing infection and 100 million unvaccinated people got infected, you'd still see 10 million vaccinated people who are infected. 10% is not a rare event but it's a lot better to be ten times less likely to get sick. But feel free to not wear a seatbelt because they don't prevent every death.

[Nick Danger]

The immune system is a quirky thing. It's not a reflection of someone's character or toughness. It might be a reflection of how well someone slept the night before they were exposed to a virus, what their diet has been like recently, or whether they have a lot of stress in their life. I am going to get vaccinated whenever it's authorized and try not to get infected. In my defense, I deal perfectly well with physical injuries like a broken foot or a torn muscle but I've gotten sick before and not cleared it well so I'd be stupid not to be careful.

It's simply not true that the virus is barely dangerous. It's killed 800,000 people and is killing 1,000 more a day. Yes most of those people are older but there are plenty of 30 and 40 year olds who have died or been ventilated for an extended period of time and have permanent complications.

BTW Pfizer just tested an antiviral pill that is 89% effective in preventing serious disease. It's called Paxlovid. You're free to think the clinical trial results are fraudulent.

Maybe one reason you're having trouble with the numbers is because of the magnitude of them. If a vaccine is 90% effective in preventing infection and 100 million unvaccinated people got infected, you'd still see 10 million vaccinated people who are infected. 10% is not a rare event but it's a lot better to be ten times less likely to get sick. But feel free to not wear a seatbelt because they don't prevent every death.

Bronco, no disrespect to your argument or the fact that you're making it, but you're wasting your breath on me. We will never see eye-to-eye because you consider 800,000 deaths to be a lot of deaths. 800,000 is a gift, with a big bow on it. It will surely rise to a million. How high would the death toll be if we hadn't taken any "precautions" at all? Not much higher. Our precautions were ridiculous.

I know I haven't told you this because I don't think I've told anyone this, but I was in Shreveport on business last Spring, at the height of the lockdowns and mask mandates. Went out to a local bar to shoot some pool and drink a few beers, and couldn't help but notice that the volume of the music in the place was WAY too low. I mean it was less than background noise, you couldn't even tell what was playing. I made a comment about this to my waitress and she told me that the governor had just mandated VOLUME LEVEL controls for bars and restaurants - the theory being that loud music would draw crowds. Then I had one beer, shot a couple balls off the table, and the place closed at like 10 o'clock, also part of the new mandates. A new miserable experience. Anyway how many Covid cases do you think that little stroke of authoritarian genius prevented?

The masks are garbage, social distancing doesn't happen unless you've got an armed guard directing traffic, half the work force kept going to work and continued to mingle freely with the other half, it was all a big joke, we saved maybe one guy, Ralph Farnsworth, a railroad retiree in Columbus Ohio. In exchange for what? The collateral damage is incalculable. Classic example of the cure being worse than the disease. What does shutting society down for 2 years cost? What's 2 years worth of social development and primary education worth in a 7-year-old? How many honest merchants were forced out of business and likely into a way-too-early retirement? What is the real cost of saving Ralph Farnsworth? We'll never know, but it sure seems like we've traded a purse full of gold for a handful of beans to me. And the subtlest irony of all is that Ralph Farnsworth could have just saved himself.

It was early in the pandemic, Bronco, when I realized I had an amazing genius for how to handle pandemics. I'm a pandemic savant and it's more of a curse than a blessing when you have to watch people badly mishandle the one thing in the world that you understand better than anyone. All we had to do was quarantine the vulnerable and let everyone else deal with the flu. We'd have been long done with it, same or fewer deaths most likely, and no shutting down of anything. But you can't soar with the eagles when you live with a bunch of turkeys.

[broncofan]

In the past I've tried not to take joy in stupid people suffering the consequences of stupid decisions. I have to tell you I have mixed feelings about all of the right-wing radio hosts who say stuff like "I'll never take the vaccine" and then get really sick and from the hospital say "I'm gonna beat this but I urge you all to get the vaccine." And then they don't beat it and never leave the hospital and people tweet messages under one of their old tweets where they're accusing a prominent infectious disease doctor of scamming them. It's a pattern that's recurred often enough that I ask myself if it's dejavu or whether all of these stupid faces have blurred together in my mind.

I've accused Republicans of engaging in voter suppression before but it seems like your efforts have been more bipartisan recently. So follow your gut.

BTW, my last post on the last page asked you what sort of tax you're worried will change your standard of living. I've paid different amounts of tax in my life but it's never been something that's kept me up at night.

[Nick Danger]

Nick, you are not averse to sharing personal details and while I'm not asking for anything really specific, what kind of tax is it that you are fearing? I don't love material things as much as the average person but do like being comfortable and being able to buy what I want without stress (in addition to paying for necessities and out of pocket healthcare costs). What kind of tax is changing your standard of living? I never understand this.

I never shared this but I own some commercial real estate. The number of tax benefits and write-offs that our tax code provides is unreal. If for instance depreciation schedules were not as aggressive or the irs changed how much could be written off as 5 or 15 year property my taxes would be different. My life wouldn't. And frankly, I'm not paying attention to every penny the government spends but if my tax dollars could buy healthcare for people or student loan forgiveness or disability payments wouldn't we be a better country?

I'm not going to lie, Bronco, I don't pay a lot in taxes. I'm a single-owner business so my tax rate is about half that of many privately-owned companies or any publicly-owned companies. I don't pay myself a salary so I pay zero in federal income tax. Fact is I'm in the middle of selling my business right now, to the guy who's been doing most of the work for the last 15 years. And I'm going to retire, I'm pretty much already there. Most of my income from now on will come from capital gains, which, yes, the Democrats are looking to nearly double taxes on those.

But that doesn't bother me MUCH, I'm not a day-trader or anything, I follow the Warren Buffett school of thinking and almost all my investments are long-term. I have never minded paying my share of taxes anyway. I just don't want people living off the government, I thought I'd been fairly clear about that. We're the strongest country because we've always been the hardest-working country, and I know that sounds like bravado but it's the truth, pretty sure it's easily shown statistically. We don't take as many vacations as other countries, we work longer hours, more days, and I daresay harder. We do that because we have to if we want to...I dunno, impress our neighbors, whatever the fuck it is we Americans do. But the point is you can't change horses in mid-stream and expect to win the race, our system works. It impoverishes some, but it works, we genuinely are a force to be reckoned with. And nuclear arsenals big enough to maintain the mutually-assured destruction paradigm that keeps the world from blowing itself up don't build themselves.

[broncofan]

I don't hold you in contempt at all for trembling in fear over a virus that's barely dangerous. Tremble for decades for all I care.
https://news.yahoo.com/washington-state-sen-doug-ericksen-235935056.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=tw

I'm trying to figure out whether Doug Ericksen owned the libs before he died. Just wanna know the estate tax consequences.

[Nick Danger]

https://news.yahoo.com/washington-state-sen-doug-ericksen-235935056.html?soc_src=community&soc_trk=tw

I'm trying to figure out whether Doug Ericksen owned the libs before he died. Just wanna know the estate tax consequences.

You've lost me here Bronco. I read the entire boring-ass article too. Was this guy some kind of known anti-vaxxer or something? All it says in the article is he had opposed vaccine mandates and pushed for social distancing restrictions to be eased.

I mean if you want me to say it's poetic justice when a vocal anti-vaxxer dies of Covid, I mean sure, I'll say it. But once again, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. Full disclosure, I've already essentially decided I'm going to get it, not because I want it but because I can't travel without it. So that's that, no need for further encouragement here, I will be vaccinated by mid-January or so. I just want it to be CLEAR...that I have not been sold on this vaccine by anything other than my own selfish interests.

[filghy2]

Bronco, no disrespect to your argument or the fact that you're making it, but you're wasting your breath on me. We will never see eye-to-eye because you consider 800,000 deaths to be a lot of deaths. 800,000 is a gift, with a big bow on it. It will surely rise to a million. How high would the death toll be if we hadn't taken any "precautions" at all? Not much higher. Our precautions were ridiculous.

I know I haven't told you this because I don't think I've told anyone this, but I was in Shreveport on business last Spring, at the height of the lockdowns and mask mandates. Went out to a local bar to shoot some pool and drink a few beers, and couldn't help but notice that the volume of the music in the place was WAY too low. I mean it was less than background noise, you couldn't even tell what was playing. I made a comment about this to my waitress and she told me that the governor had just mandated VOLUME LEVEL controls for bars and restaurants - the theory being that loud music would draw crowds. Then I had one beer, shot a couple balls off the table, and the place closed at like 10 o'clock, also part of the new mandates. A new miserable experience. Anyway how many Covid cases do you think that little stroke of authoritarian genius prevented?

The masks are garbage, social distancing doesn't happen unless you've got an armed guard directing traffic, half the work force kept going to work and continued to mingle freely with the other half, it was all a big joke, we saved maybe one guy, Ralph Farnsworth, a railroad retiree in Columbus Ohio. In exchange for what? The collateral damage is incalculable. Classic example of the cure being worse than the disease. What does shutting society down for 2 years cost? What's 2 years worth of social development and primary education worth in a 7-year-old? How many honest merchants were forced out of business and likely into a way-too-early retirement? What is the real cost of saving Ralph Farnsworth? We'll never know, but it sure seems like we've traded a purse full of gold for a handful of beans to me. And the subtlest irony of all is that Ralph Farnsworth could have just saved himself.

It was early in the pandemic, Bronco, when I realized I had an amazing genius for how to handle pandemics. I'm a pandemic savant and it's more of a curse than a blessing when you have to watch people badly mishandle the one thing in the world that you understand better than anyone. All we had to do was quarantine the vulnerable and let everyone else deal with the flu. We'd have been long done with it, same or fewer deaths most likely, and no shutting down of anything. But you can't soar with the eagles when you live with a bunch of turkeys.

How does this man manage to write so many words based on absolutely nothing of substance? Yeah, we know what you think on this and your limited number of other fixed viewpoints because you've already told us ad nauseum. No need for a long stream of consciousness essay every single time.

You should have stuck with your previous conclusion, bronco.


You're a person for whom the distinction between fact and fiction no longer exists. There's no other explanation for your views. The only information you assimilate is that which supports your priors. Anything inconvenient is waved away or quickly forgotten.

Are you deplorable? Worse than that. You're boring and limited. You've decided to fear what you don't understand, which is a great deal, while telling yourself you're a big alpha predator. Your next debate is with your mirror.

[filghy2]

Again, you ignore the empirical point that every other developed country is more generous is assisting people with lower incomes, yet they have not ended up with more poverty. In fact, the US has much more inequality than most other developed countries, which seems to give the lie to your claim that limiting benefits helps the poor.


Edit: Sorry forgot to address your first point. I really think you should move away from holding up American-supported European countries as models of how not to be like America. Yeah, you guys have plenty of peace and prosperity and equality and all that. Meanwhile we have a devil's bargain to keep. On your behalf.

You needn't have bothered. This is like a random association exercise where you respond to a question you can't answer by addressing some other question that is only vaguely related at best.

[Nick Danger]

How does this man manage to write so many words based on absolutely nothing of substance? Yeah, we know what you think on this and your limited number of other fixed viewpoints because you've already told us ad nauseum. No need for a long stream of consciousness essay every single time.

Sorry Flighty, didn't realize you were so pressed for time. I've always just assumed you were a rent boy or a catamite. No worries, from now on you will get only concise banter.

[Nick Danger]

You needn't have bothered. This is like a random association exercise where you respond to a question you can't answer by addressing some other question that is only vaguely related at best.

Retard.

[broncofan]

You should have stuck with your previous conclusion, bronco.
If I ever write a memoir or autobiography it will be called Against My Better Judgement.

[Nick Danger]

Pinin' for the fjords??!!! It's not pinin'. It's passed on. This bill is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. It's kicked the bucket, shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding' choir invisible. This is an ex-bill.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/586450-manchin-says-he-will-not-vote-for-build-back-better-this-is-a-no

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[Nick Danger]

1356882
Joe Manchin - American Hero!

[Nick Danger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUmnTfsY3hI

[Nick Danger]

1356883

[filghy2]

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