im going to get into trouble how many more will die

[rabbitfufu]

‘Precious Angels’: 3 Sisters Killed When Suspected Drunk Driver Slams Into Car From Behind google this article and see if you cry. …..….by the bullet......or by the bottle...…...just the same, except the far left does not do a body count on dui caused deaths....im sorry to the administrators but I needed to say this.... thank you

[filghy2]

:dead: Why this is a silly argument has been discussed ad nauseum in these threads.
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?106035-Happiness-is-a-warm-gun/page16
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?106707-Alcohol-is-a-Warm-Gun/page5

Perhaps you should stick to the word association thread?

[rabbitfufu]

i'll try that this is the first time in this area of hung angels

[filghy2]

Okay. I might have misunderstood you, but it's not clear what exactly your point is or what it has to do with the "far left". Yes, it is sad, but what are you proposing should be done?

There are statistics on DUI-related deaths, so nobody is conspiring to hide the problem. https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html

[broncofan]

Is there some sort of solution to the problem of drunk driving that the "hard left" is blocking? I don't know where you get the idea that drunk driving deaths is a partisan issue. Do liberals want to make it easier to drive drunk or harder to prosecute drunk drivers?

The comparison to guns of course is bad because people on the left only want regulations that in every other developed country result in fewer deaths. People on the right are blocking even the most common sense regulations....

What you've shown is a total inability to think about this issue and discuss it in an honest way.

[mrtrebus]

What a weird thread...

[rabbitfufu]

maybe it is the way I stating it. Every time a gun death the media picks up on the guns . more than a dui causing a death. Alcohol is in sports. Hard for me to describe expect too many dui deaths and no one is talking abut it. a person can have multiple dui and society says boo. the town drunk was a laughable item, watch Otis on the Andy Griffin show. I'm not against drinking, however for an example I have been more bars than I ca count But I have one drink and it last me all night. Again people do shots have multiple drinks, beer etc. and walk out the door drive and are legally drunk. the bar, the alcohol company is not responsible for the deaths of people killed during a dui. However now the owner of the gun shop who went by the law and sold the gun to the person who killed in Gilro is being sued as well as the gun manufacture. Why???

[broncofan]

There's a lot of confusion there. I'll try to deal with some of it. We tried to ban alcohol altogether in this country and there was a huge underground market for it and enormous amounts of organized crime associated with it.

We now regulate alcohol and require that people are 21 before they can drink. Our federal government makes funding to the states contingent on their enforcement of the requirement that the drinking age be 21. People can vote and serve in the military at the age of 18.

People who drive drunk are prosecuted for it. They have to pay thousands of dollars, it goes on their record, and can have career consequences. If someone kills someone while drinking and driving, they are prosecuted for manslaughter.

We allow people to have military weapons in this country. Weapons that have no purpose except to kill lots of people at one time.. People who have been paying attention think this is preventable because other countries have lower rates of gun deaths and more restrictive gun laws.

The argument about gun manufacturers is your weakest one. First, I've said this a few times but look up dram shop acts. Bars have liability to third parties for serving people who are obviously drunk. Gun manufacturers do not even have to face the kind of liability at common law that companies in every other industry do because of the PLCAA. Now there's question about how often gun manufacturers could be sued successfully for selling dangerous products but they have blanket immunity by statute. They don't even have to defend lawsuits.

Also, a bit confused about the Andy Griffith show reference. The show depicted someone being drunk and not driving? We should allow people to commit mass murder because of this?

[filghy2]

Every time a gun death the media picks up on the guns . more than a dui causing a death. Alcohol is in sports. Hard for me to describe expect too many dui deaths and no one is talking abut it. a person can have multiple dui and society says boo.

I'm pretty sure that shootings where small numbers die get about the same attention as DUI deaths involving the same numbers. It's only the mass shootings that get big media attention. That's true of most things - eg plane crashes get more attention than car accidents even though many more people die in car accidents over time.

Multiple DUI offences are subject to heavier penalties, so I don't think it's true that society is indifferent.

You are still quite vague about what you think should be done to reduce DUI deaths. If you really are concerned and not just using it as a diversion then you must have some ideas.

The thing about gun deaths is that there are some obvious things that could be done that are being blocked due to the political power of the gun lobby. These are the sort of things that have been proposed:
- Tighter background checks to stop people with criminal or mental illness histories from buying guns. At present there are huge loopholes.
- Red flag laws to allow guns to be confiscated where there is probable cause that people may be a threat.
- Bans on high-capacity magazine or military assault weapons that can kill many people in a short period.

Are you opposed to these measures and, if so, why?

[rabbitfufu]

:werd:Ill let this thread die. I had to vent after seeing two little girls die as well as dad. Just frustration on stupid the world is. Between politicians, ultra billionaires that keep making more than God. Thank for listening to my rant of the week.:confused:

[smalltownguy]

yeah dying is not a good human habbit I would say...

[smalltownguy]

keep the good work of making thread fufu ... I love the way you do it

[trish]

Cars don’t kill people, people do. No. Wait a minute. That’s not true. In the 70’s, Ford Pintos had a problem. Their gas tanks occasionally exploded from rear-end taps. Back then, not all cars had seat belts and people died who didn’t have to. We raised our standards and passed laws. Still, some vehicular deaths are indeed due to drivers. They speed, they get reckless, they get distracted, they don’t use their belts and some drive under the influence. We have laws against all that too. To get a license drivers have to demonstrate their knowledge of the law, the safety protocols, their ability to drive and the ability of their eyes to see the road. If you want to get tougher on manufacturers and drivers alike, I’m probably with you. I just want the same for guns, hunters and marksmen too.

The media doesn’t create the news, people do. Columbine occurred during the Assault Weapons Ban. As far as I know it was the only mass shooting to take place during the ban. After the ban we had (in order of highest deaths) the Las Vegas shooting (58 ), the one at the Orlando nightclub (49), the Virginia Tech shooting (32), Sandy Hook (27}, Sutherland Springs (26), El Paso (20), Stoneman Douglas (17), San Bernardino (14), Fort Hood (14), Binghamton (13), Virginia Beach (12), Thousand Oaks (12), Washington Navy Yard (12), Aurora Theater (12), Pittsburgh Synagogue(11) and Santa Fe High School (10). If you read local papers you would also see the media reporting weekly on scores of suicides, single shooters and stupid firearm accidents.

[Laphroaig]

In the UK the Dunblane shooting resulted in much tighter gun laws particularly for hand guns. Result (touch wood) it's never happened again.

There's an argument to be made for shotguns and hunting rifles but there is no need for any civilian to own an assault rifle. The idea that it's a constitutional right to be able to own a weapon designed for one purpose, to kill people is a total joke.

[filghy2]

In the UK the Dunblane shooting resulted in much tighter gun laws particularly for hand guns. Result (touch wood) it's never happened again.

Same in Australia since guns were tightly restricted after the 1996 Port Arthur massacre. The "guns don't kill, people kill" crowd like to blame it on mental illness, video games, etc but I'm pretty sure we have a similar incidence of those things.

A guy with a history of mental illness recently ran amok with a knife in Sydney CBD - killed one and wounded another before he was tackled to the ground. I hate to think how many would have died if he'd had an assault rifle.

[rabbitfufu]

yet alcohol has ruined ….how many families???? alcoholics, beating, abuse, single parents, child abuse etc. how many of you overdrank and had wished they had not!! drinking in high school college drunks, ohhh its ok I'm just having fun, blowing off steam!! but do the alcohol manufactures have to reconcile their companies. ok im wrong the ad says "drink responsible" maybe that should be saying that on a box of ammo, " use wisely"

[Laphroaig]

yet alcohol has ruined ….how many families???? alcoholics, beating, abuse, single parents, child abuse etc. how many of you overdrank and had wished they had not!! drinking in high school college drunks, ohhh its ok I'm just having fun, blowing off steam!! but do the alcohol manufactures have to reconcile their companies. ok im wrong the ad says "drink responsible" maybe that should be saying that on a box of ammo, " use wisely"

Scotland introduced a minimum pricing for alcohol a few years ago. Probably still too early to judge if there's been an effect but the issue is being acknowledged and some attempts made to minimise the effects.
Where's the equivalent gun control laws in the US? Why does every single attempt to address the issue get shot down (deliberate pun) by the NRA and other pro gun lobbies? I'll ask the question again, what right does any civilian have to own an assault rifle?

There is also evidence that younger people are drinking less and moving to low/no alcohol alternatives

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45807152
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48676943
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49355057

[broncofan]

Where's the equivalent gun control laws in the US? Why does every single attempt to address the issue get shot down (deliberate pun) by the NRA and other pro gun lobbies? I'll ask the question again, what right does any civilian have to own an assault rifle?

Nail on the head. With every major public health crisis there should be an attempt to figure out ways to maintain the utility of the activity while addressing its risks. As Trish pointed out, there have been a lot of safety features added to cars, including mandatory seatbelts and airbags. We didn't ban the car (except the pinto; the assault weapon of automobiles;) because modern life depends on them.

We tried to ban alcohol and it was impossible to enforce. Most countries have tried to find ways to address the various risks associated with it. Lobbies have not shut down any attempt to address its risks by threatening rebellion as the NRA has with guns.

What is the utility of guns? People use them for hunting and lawfully for self-defense. But the NRA makes people think assault rifles are protected by the second amendment (they're not) and useful for self-defense. They fire a zillion bullets per second and are best used to shoot lots of people at once. They are a tool that facilitates mass murder.

The NRA wanted to legalize silencers on weapons. Can you imagine the stupidity?

Rabbitfufu has said nothing about any of the recommendations filghy made on the previous page. He's made zero recommendations for making drinking less hazardous or preventing drunk driving.

The subject of alcohol is pure dilution of the gun problem. I hate to say it but he's Mr. Fanti light. Slightly less strident, a bit less obnoxious, but the same sleight of hand. And he thought he was going to get in trouble for posting this thread....lame

[Stavros]

Cars don’t kill people, people do. No. Wait a minute. That’s not true. In the 70’s, Ford Pintos had a problem. Their gas tanks occasionally exploded from rear-end taps. Back then, not all cars had seat belts and people died who didn’t have to. We raised our standards and passed laws. Still, some vehicular deaths are indeed due to drivers. They speed, they get reckless, they get distracted, they don’t use their belts and some drive under the influence. We have laws against all that too. To get a license drivers have to demonstrate their knowledge of the law, the safety protocols, their ability to drive and the ability of their eyes to see the road. If you want to get tougher on manufacturers and drivers alike, I’m probably with you. I just want the same for guns, hunters and marksmen too.

The media doesn’t create the news, people do. Columbine occurred during the Assault Weapons Ban. As far as I know it was the only mass shooting to take place during the ban. After the ban we had (in order of highest deaths) the Las Vegas shooting (58 ), the one at the Orlando nightclub (49), the Virginia Tech shooting (32), Sandy Hook (27}, Sutherland Springs (26), El Paso (20), Stoneman Douglas (17), San Bernardino (14), Fort Hood (14), Binghamton (13), Virginia Beach (12), Thousand Oaks (12), Washington Navy Yard (12), Aurora Theater (12), Pittsburgh Synagogue(11) and Santa Fe High School (10). If you read local papers you would also see the media reporting weekly on scores of suicides, single shooters and stupid firearm accidents.

How many people would those killers have killed if armed with a bow and arrow?

[filghy2]

The NRA wanted to legalize silencers on weapons. Can you imagine the stupidity?

At the NRA's behest, the Republican congress also weakened restrictions on people with mental illnesses acquiring guns, which clearly shows their hypocrisy and bad faith on the issue. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

[buttslinger]

The New York AG is going after the NRA's non-profit status, it seems Wayne Lapierre is using member's dues to furnish a lavish lifestyle for him and his wife. Ollie North is threatening to spill the beans on the whole sordid truth after he was forced out earlier this year, so while the NRA still has it's steel curtain with the Republicans, internally they are in turmoil. That's cool with me.
I understand completely why a gun enthusiast would want an AR-15, compared to a .22 rifle, it's newer, shinier, faster, sexier. Just like a car enthusiast craves a Porsche over a Volkswagen. It is actually legal to own a fully automatic machine gun in the USA, but you have to go through a long series of background checks, jump through tons of hoops, and pay lots of money for a license. If you get a gun dealer's license you can own a whole warehouse of guns.
The reason why Transsexual Prostitution is illegal in the US is because the general population sees a tranny ho and sees a greater threat than a redneck with a gunrack in his pickup. They see a tranny ho and see their kids threatened, they see STDs, and of course all tranny hoes carry knives. Tranny hoes bring crime and drugs with them.
You have to be careful when you take away freedom from someone, majority rules is how we got Trump. Obamacare is how we got Mitch McConnell. Prohibition brought us Al Capone.
I think it might be better to let the NRA and the RNC implode rather than be shouted down. Let the racists hang themselves, if possible. Take a page from the Putin playbook.

[trish]

Actually, I don’t carry a shive - but don’t tell anyone (don’t want to lose my mystic). But it’s true that certain segments of the U.S. population are ruled by their phobia of the other. Drunks armed to the teeth while waving confederate flags are okay. Black man with a cell phone that can be “mistaken” for a gun - that’s a death sentence.

I take one exception to your post buttslinger: Majority rule is not how we got Trump. I blaming him on the electoral college (and the Ruskees).

Unfortunately it’s not clear to me anything’s about to implode (except perhaps the economy and civilization in general). I think the RNC is here to stay. Even if the NRA goes there will always be (or at least for a long long time) an appetite for guns and organizations promoting them and selling them. In my opinion racism, homophobia, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism and all our other phobias are just part of the human condition. We’ll never be free of them. The only way to keep them under control and to speak out against them and demonstrate through example that we all have shared values. There’s plenty of real shit out there that actually deserves our fearful attention.

[buttslinger]

Yeah, that's the second time I've been corrected on Trump's crowd size, I like to get into the shoes of my opponent. I think my case is that "our" opponent is "us" and I was shocked to death when I found out how many of "them" there are out there. In the case of the NRA, minority rules. Most people want sane gun laws. McConnell rules.
The human mind weighs three pounds, the bacteria in our gut also weighs three pounds and sometimes is referred to as our second brain, and of course we all know what happens when we let our dicks do the thinking. My gut bacteria is hoping for a scary recession BEFORE November 2020. Then sane gun and car laws will follow.

[rabbitfufu]

assault rifles shoots only 1,000,000 rounds a minute?? I'm trying to say anyone can get booze and kill innocent people and there is no background check on beer yet billions if dollars are spent yearly on broken families, shattered dreams, etc. alcohol kills and the industry that manufactures it and held harmless. that's bad when company's make tons of money and they are not held accountable for ruining lives. I could quote numbers but why? Think about every Friday and Saturday the people coming out of bars drunk, and bars let them go home and destroy people. Get into bar fights, Get into fights with loved ones, cant go to work the next day, almost all of you have done it, but me as a responsible ar 15 owner has not shot one person.

[buttslinger]

Alcohol ruins many lives, but most of the tragedies are self inflicted. Guns are more often used for suicide rather than murder. It's usually your friends that do you in, not your enemies. People on this site aren't looking for answers, they already know the answer.

[smalltownguy]

Alcohol ruins many lives, but most of the tragedies are self inflicted. Guns are more often used for suicide rather than murder. It's usually your friends that do you in, not your enemies. People on this site aren't looking for answers, they already know the answer.

hmm...

[buttslinger]

hmm...

he he, let me stick my dick in your mouth, then hmmm....
haw haw haw.

[buttslinger]

Sorry Smalltown, one of my neighbor's trees fell into my yard yesterday during a summer storm, and it's going to cost me bigtime, hence it shall cost this forum!!! All my old friends who did a lot of drugs are shadows of our former selves, yet I never heard any of them issue any regrets. God will not test us beyond our strength, or something like that. People live in all different fashions, and they die in all different fashions, we do what we can. In the mean time, in between time, ain't we got fun?

[Laphroaig]

assault rifles shoots only 1,000,000 rounds a minute?? I'm trying to say anyone can get booze and kill innocent people and there is no background check on beer yet billions if dollars are spent yearly on broken families, shattered dreams, etc. alcohol kills and the industry that manufactures it and held harmless. that's bad when company's make tons of money and they are not held accountable for ruining lives. I could quote numbers but why? Think about every Friday and Saturday the people coming out of bars drunk, and bars let them go home and destroy people. Get into bar fights, Get into fights with loved ones, cant go to work the next day, almost all of you have done it, but me as a responsible ar 15 owner has not shot one person.

Why own one? You've dodged that question twice already and I'd argue that if you can't answer then you're not a responsible owner as you have no reason to have one.

[broncofan]

Why own one? You've dodged that question twice already and I'd argue that if you can't answer then you're not a responsible owner as you have no reason to have one.
A while back there was some guy on here who said "I need an assault weapon because I train other people to use them!!!!" I said, okay and what do they need them for? The guy downvoted the post. He hadn't thought that far ahead.

Rabbitfufu didn't comment on any of the recommendations by filghy because it's easier to argue against a total prohibitionist strawman than deal with actual recommendations. He didn't comment on what should be done to regulate alcohol because he doesn't have recommendations and just wants to use it as an excuse to stockpile guns.

And to rabbitfufu, no I didn't state an exact number of bullets per interval of time an assault weapon can fire. I said "zillion" which is not a real number but was used to indicate a lot. Why do so many gun people think it's convincing to show people who favor gun control that there's some technical detail they don't know about their weapons? Does the fucking thing shoot a lot of bullets really quickly and mow down lots of people? Am I right on that point?

[Stavros]

Sandy Hook in its gruesome way presented the US with the opportunity for radical change, but Congress chose not to. If the reaction to dead children was one of such indifference- and indifference to, even causing suffering to, children seems to be standard policy in the US-, why would those people ever bother to look at the facts and make up their mind to ban assault weapons, to broaden background checks, to ban arms fairs, to make online purchases of weapons illegal -ultimately to either repeal the 2nd Amendment, or amend its wording? This is one issue which does not cross the aisle, and until Republicans lose their control of the legislative agenda, nothing will change.

[filghy2]

assault rifles shoots only 1,000,000 rounds a minute?? I'm trying to say anyone can get booze and kill innocent people and there is no background check on beer yet billions if dollars are spent yearly on broken families, shattered dreams, etc. alcohol kills and the industry that manufactures it and held harmless. that's bad when company's make tons of money and they are not held accountable for ruining lives. I could quote numbers but why? Think about every Friday and Saturday the people coming out of bars drunk, and bars let them go home and destroy people. Get into bar fights, Get into fights with loved ones, cant go to work the next day, almost all of you have done it, but me as a responsible ar 15 owner has not shot one person.

Sorry, but if you only mention alcohol-related deaths in the context of guns and you refuse to offer any solutions then your professed concern does not appear to be sincere. Further discussion is a waste of time if you just keep repeating the same lines and refuse to address any of the points other people have made in response.

[blackchubby38]

assault rifles shoots only 1,000,000 rounds a minute?? I'm trying to say anyone can get booze and kill innocent people and there is no background check on beer yet billions if dollars are spent yearly on broken families, shattered dreams, etc. alcohol kills and the industry that manufactures it and held harmless. that's bad when company's make tons of money and they are not held accountable for ruining lives. I could quote numbers but why? Think about every Friday and Saturday the people coming out of bars drunk, and bars let them go home and destroy people. Get into bar fights, Get into fights with loved ones, cant go to work the next day, almost all of you have done it, but me as a responsible ar 15 owner has not shot one person.

I guess I'm going to have to bring this post over here:


Number of alcohol impaired crash fatalities in 2016- 10,497 28% of all crash deaths.

Number of gun deaths in 2015 - 14,925. Number of people injured- 26,819.

Since you want to play the "Think of the children" game:

2016- Teens and Children killed with guns- 1,876

Children killed in drunk driving accidents- A total of 1,233 children 14 and younger were killed in motor vehicle
traffic crashes in 2016. Of these 1,233 fatalities, 214 children (17%)
died in alcohol-impaired-driving crashes. Of these 214 child deaths:
■
■
115 (54%) were occupants of vehicles with drivers who had BACs
of .08 g/dL or higher;
■
■
61 (29%) were occupants of other vehicles;
■
■
36 (17%) were nonoccupants (pedestrians, pedalcyclists, or other
nonoccupants); and
■
■
2 (<1%) were drivers

I'm a person who happens to think if there is a hell, there is a special place in it for drunk drivers. But when a person drives drunk they don't intend to kill a person. When a person wants to intimidate, rob, or murder, the use of a firearm makes it easier for them to achieve anyone of those intentions.

I want to make it clear that, I DON'T WANT TO BAN GUNS. So I'm not being a hypocrite when I'm saying that there is a huge difference between violent gun deaths and drunk driving deaths.

[buttslinger]

When Obama said Republicans in rural areas who have seen all the jobs disappear and therefore cling to their guns and religion, maybe he should have said Freedom and Family. If you live in Smalltown USA, and you plan to die in Smalltown USA, you don't need a College Education or a high paying job. If everyone in your family has had guns for generations, guns aren't the problem, Hightalkers and Transgenders who want to break up your family values are. In the Senate, South Dakota gets the same number of Senators as California. So if a relatively small bunch of ranchers or farmers will go vote for guns, in a few sparsely populated rural states, that's enough to keep McConnell in power.
If I had Trump's taxes, or video of him pissing on a Bible with three hookers, I'd drop a tease on October First, 2020, then I'd release the proof on Halloween Night. I would send all the Republicans out on a limb, and then saw it off.
Oh yeah, FuFu's argument is ridiculous, but on Fox & Friends he would be wrong but well-meaning.

[rabbitfufu]

my argument at the beging id why the media picks on gun related deaths an not alcohol related deaths. I have no solutions, no answers just a post for all of use to think about. When we become adults at 18 or 21 in certain areas, we are to become citizens and help each other not to kill anyone by any means, by gun, by alcohol, or anything else. We are responsible for ourselves and not imposing our lives over others. On all the laws this nation makes us humans canot even obey a simple 10 that is a base for all laws.

[rodinuk]

….by the bullet......or by the bottle...…...just the same, except the far left does not do a body count on dui caused deaths...

The difference is that your constitution blesses gun ownership and that your woolly argument seeks to blame global media for something which is the responsibility of the American population. Your constitution has evolved a culture where the individual needs to have a gun in order to feel part of Team USA.

It’s not just the same because in the vast majority of gun-related cases it was pre-meditated whereas in alcohol-related cases it wasn’t...as others have stated before.

So why do you need an AR15 - here’s its track record of mass killing from Wikipedia:


Use in crime and mass shootingsEdit (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AR-15_style_rifle&action=edit&section=7)A majority of firearm-related homicides in the United States involve the use of handguns (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handgun).[58] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-CBS_2/16/2018-58)[59] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-59)[60] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-60) According to a 2013 analysis by Mayors Against Illegal Guns (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everytown_for_Gun_Safety), 14 out of 93 mass shootings involved high-capacity magazines or assault weapons (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapons).[61] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-help-61)Nevertheless, AR-15 style rifles have played a prominent role in many high-profile mass shootings in the United States (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States)[62] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-62) and have come to be widely characterized as the weapon of choice for perpetrators of these crimes.[63] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-63) AR-15s or similar rifles were the primary weapons used in around half of the 10 deadliest mass shootings in modern American history,[64] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-64)[65] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-65) including the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting), the 2015 San Bernardino attack (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack),[5] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-NYT_13_June_2016-5) the 2017 Las Vegas shooting (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting),[66] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-USA_Today_14_Feb_2018-66) the 2017 Sutherland Springs church shooting (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting),[66] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-USA_Today_14_Feb_2018-66) and the 2018 Stoneman Douglas High School shooting (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneman_Douglas_High_School_shooting).[67] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-67) Gun expert (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert) Dean Hazen and mass murder researcher Dr. Pete Blair think that mass shooters' gun choices have less to do with the AR-15's specific characteristics but rather with familiarity and a copycat effect.[68] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-usa-68)[69] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#cite_note-abc-69)


By the way other countries and creeds are available.

[buttslinger]

After a while it may become pointless to argue, none of us have to authority to sign laws that will bring about far reaching, logical, fair, forward moving changes to our car and gun safety policies. For that we need to hear from the all-seeing wisdom and mountainous intellect of our elected leaders.


https://i.ibb.co/P4KwhKM/Image.jpg (https://ibb.co/WFZgyZ0)

[javier81]

This guy can barely write his poorly thought out arguments, why are any of you actually trying to engage him?

[broncofan]

This guy can barely write his poorly thought out arguments, why are any of you actually trying to engage him?
I figured it was preferable to not engaging him and still writing a post in his thread. I mean, why not? You don't get a lot of pro assault weapon arguments that look like they could have been written by James Joyce.

As for Rabbitfufu, he does have a difficult choice between purchasing his 16th gun and learning how to use an apostrophe.

[Laphroaig]

This guy can barely write his poorly thought out arguments, why are any of you actually trying to engage him?

is it not important to address the various issues within this thread through discussion and hopefully education. Even if he doesn't benefit, others may do so from reading the arguments and information presented.

[buttslinger]

I was going to put this thought in the Global Warming thread, but it probably works here as well.
I don't think it's that people don't care, they just don't have the resources or understanding or the place to make a difference or even understand what's going on. Today it's burning rain forests in Brazil. If you step up and ask to get involved they'll ask you to write a check. People have been claiming the sky is falling as long as I've lived, it's understandable people want to tune it out. The last 75 years, all the significant problems of the World eventually end up in the lap of the United States President. I honestly think if all the U S Presidents walked into a room together Trump would not walk out. Of course that's complete gibberish, but I still believe it. I wouldn't walk up to someone in the Safeway and say it, maybe it's good if FuFu doesn't either.

[rabbitfufu]

I'm A lover, not a writer. The gun laws are weak, like the first amendment. My toes were stepped on when Snoop Dog was allowed to use profanity in his lyrics. The solutions are not for me to endorse or offer a solution, that's for the people I elected. I have a AR 15 for the same reason a lot of law abiding gun owners do, I enter contests a have some fun shooting at paper targets. I feel this is safer than sitting at home or a bar and harming others through my BAC. I follow the rules to a "t", such as pointing the gun in a safe direction. I make sure the gun is unloaded during transport. I also clean and lube it so it will not cause negligent mishaps. Do I need to go on? The big word in all of this is "responsibility." Do you drink responsible? I also keep my gun in a safe that only I have the combo for Is your alcohol lock up?

[javier81]

I'm A lover, not a writer. The gun laws are weak, like the first amendment. My toes were stepped on when Snoop Dog was allowed to use profanity in his lyrics. The solutions are not for me to endorse or offer a solution, that's for the people I elected. I have a AR 15 for the same reason a lot of law abiding gun owners do, I enter contests a have some fun shooting at paper targets. I feel this is safer than sitting at home or a bar and harming others through my BAC. I follow the rules to a "t", such as pointing the gun in a safe direction. I make sure the gun is unloaded during transport. I also clean and lube it so it will not cause negligent mishaps. Do I need to go on? The big word in all of this is "responsibility." Do you drink responsible? I also keep my gun in a safe that only I have the combo for Is your alcohol lock up?

I rest my case.

[Laphroaig]

I'm A lover, not a writer. The gun laws are weak, like the first amendment. My toes were stepped on when Snoop Dog was allowed to use profanity in his lyrics. The solutions are not for me to endorse or offer a solution, that's for the people I elected. I have a AR 15 for the same reason a lot of law abiding gun owners do, I enter contests a have some fun shooting at paper targets. I feel this is safer than sitting at home or a bar and harming others through my BAC. I follow the rules to a "t", such as pointing the gun in a safe direction. I make sure the gun is unloaded during transport. I also clean and lube it so it will not cause negligent mishaps. Do I need to go on? The big word in all of this is "responsibility." Do you drink responsible? I also keep my gun in a safe that only I have the combo for Is your alcohol lock up?

You could shoot paper targets with an air rifle or a. 22. Doesn't justify owning an AR 15.

[Laphroaig]

I rest my case.

Wasn't worth trying to engage with you either, was it?... :shrug

[buttslinger]

Hung Angels-
Hung Jury

I just read Ruth Bader Ginsburg has pancreatic Cancer.
I was a fool for believing Trump when he said Obama fumbled the ball by not filling 138 empty Federal Judge seats. McConnell blocked them all. Now we're staring at another Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court.

[javier81]

Wasn't worth trying to engage with you either, was it?... :shrug

Call me cynical but both sides of this argument seemed to have left too little room for pragmatism. You're a bit naive if you think your opinions are going to influence any bystanders who might be on the fence. Whether well informed or not most Americans have already formed their own opinions on the subject, and are likely to disregard your thoughts on the matter at face value simply because you're "European". I'm pro 2nd amendment and I've long since found it completely worthless to debunk the often blatantly untrue "facts", and logically flawed arguments the pro-gun folks always seemed to be armed with. Feel free to engage with that as you see fit.

[buttslinger]

I just read Ruth Bader Ginsburg has pancreatic Cancer. I was a fool for believing Trump when he said Obama fumbled the ball by not filling 138 empty Federal Judge seats. McConnell blocked them all. Now we're staring at another Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court.

Moron, RGB is fine, she always has Cancer. Once again you've made fantastic claims with no hard evidence to back them up. I suggest you ban yourself.

[broncofan]

I'm pro 2nd amendment and I've long since found it completely worthless to debunk the often blatantly untrue "facts", and logically flawed arguments the pro-gun folks always seemed to be armed with. Feel free to engage with that as you see fit.
None of the recommendations filghy made violate the 2nd amendment as it's been interpreted by the Supreme Court thus far. It's possible political debate just isn't for you. Not everyone enjoys it and that's fine.

[Stavros]

Maybe the strategy behind the retention of the 2nd Amendment and the refusal of people like McConnell to really think deeply about gun control is based on the view that President .45 is gradually and successfully eroding the meaning and purpose of the Presidency and Congress, and that the ultimate prize is the reduction of government in all its forms.
It is the case at the moment that the application of the 2nd Amendment is an endorsement of terrorism, giving battlefield weapons to individuals in spite of the existence of an armed police force, thereby undermining their legitimate monopoly on the use of force. In this context, the NRA shoud be banned as a terrorist organization, and its leadership be in prison.

But if government is to be reduced to basic functions and the armed forces disbanded, as Washington wanted, armed militia will not be the 'last resort' but the only means people have of protecting themselves from invading armies which was the original intention behind the 2nd Amendment. Throw in the growing sense that the Civil War now defines the fault-lines of US politics with the Confederate States using States Rights to ignore the Constitution, backed by their Confederate President, and 2020 may mark the moment when the South Rises Again to support a President denied a second term by rigged elections master-minded by Democrats who have no loyalty to the King of Israel and hate God, America and the Family.
Are these people ever going to give up and stop fighting their lost cause? Or will they fight and take the US down with them as they go?
What happens when the Proud Boys come a-knockin' at yo door?

[javier81]

None of the recommendations filghy made violate the 2nd amendment as it's been interpreted by the Supreme Court thus far. It's possible political debate just isn't for you. Not everyone enjoys it and that's fine.

Considering I didn't read his post, I couldn't say whether his recommendations would or wouldn't violate the 2nd amendment as it's been interpreted. I'm personally fine with political debate, I just don't find it's particularly useful within the context of this subject as the majority of people have already taken a hard stance either way and aren't likely to even soften their stance. The only thing that's ever going to change anything is time. Until then, I guess I'll exist in the minority of people who like guns, but feel the majority of people who own them are too irresponsible to be allowed the right.

[filghy2]

What are you suggesting Javier? You've made a number of posts in this thread but you are still being extremely vague about your own position.

Time itself is not going to do anything. It's already been 20 years since the Columbine massacre and 7 years since Sandy Hook. Change only occurs because enough people keep pushing for it. Sure, it's very difficult because of the NRA's grip on the Republican Party but just giving up and waiting for a better time is a sure way to ensure nothing will ever change.

On most issues there are probably 80-90 per cent of people whose minds are made up and can't be persuaded. Most political changes occur through changing the minds of a few per cent of the voters.

[Laphroaig]

Call me cynical but both sides of this argument seemed to have left too little room for pragmatism. You're a bit naive if you think your opinions are going to influence any bystanders who might be on the fence. Whether well informed or not most Americans have already formed their own opinions on the subject, and are likely to disregard your thoughts on the matter at face value simply because you're "European". I'm pro 2nd amendment and I've long since found it completely worthless to debunk the often blatantly untrue "facts", and logically flawed arguments the pro-gun folks always seemed to be armed with. Feel free to engage with that as you see fit.

While the majority probably have made their minds up, if there are people "on the fence" then by definition they are not entrenched in their viewpoint and are open to being swayed in either direction. The politics section of a niche porn board is never going to be the place to change the world but neither is burying your head in the sand and ignoring the issues. Call me cynical but maybe you want to shut down this discussion because it's making the pro gun argument look foolish, though so far you haven't exactly improved that cause.



Considering I didn't read his post, I couldn't say whether his recommendations would or wouldn't violate the 2nd amendment as it's been interpreted. I'm personally fine with political debate, I just don't find it's particularly useful within the context of this subject as the majority of people have already taken a hard stance either way and aren't likely to even soften their stance. The only thing that's ever going to change anything is time. Until then, I guess I'll exist in the minority of people who like guns, but feel the majority of people who own them are too irresponsible to be allowed the right.

"I rest my case".

[filghy2]

From what he has said I don't think Javier is a gun rights zealot, though I don't understand his motives in getting involved in the discussion. I must say that anyone who suggests that both sides of this argument are at fault for the lack of progress must be either poorly informed or is being disingenuous. The sorts of measures I mentioned earlier don't go nearly as far as what other countries have done, so their proponents are already making pragmatic compromises.

[Laphroaig]

From what he has said I don't think Javier is a gun rights zealot, though I don't understand his motives in getting involved in the discussion. I must say that anyone who suggests that both sides of this argument are at fault for the lack of progress must be either poorly informed or is being disingenuous. The sorts of measures I mentioned earlier don't go nearly as far as what other countries have done, so their proponents are already making pragmatic compromises.

To be fair, neither appears to be a complete gun nut, just misguided and unable to present an argument as to why guns, particularly assault rifles, are so great and necessary for a civilian to own.

On the subject of compromise the NRA and other gun lobbies are the main problem. Shouting down any sensible proposed control measures with cries of "unconstitutional" and "thin end of the wedge". Until that attitude disappears it's unlikely any compromise can ever be achieved.

[rabbitfufu]

another dui death, another shooting death> Which one does the media choose to make their headline? MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. Like I said responsibly is the word many gun owners have not shot any one. Nor does every person that takes a drink harms people. IT IS THE PERSON THAT TAKES A LAW AND SCREEWS IT UP!!!!

[broncofan]

I liked Laphroaig's previous post because I agreed with most of it but I do think that rabbitfufu is a gun nut. Perhaps Javier isn't since he seems to suggest some limits to who can own guns and what kind. Maybe he wants to own a gun and shoots as a hobby or for self-defense but has not been indoctrinated by the NRA's checklist of vacuous talking points.

On the other hand, rabbitfufu shows all the hallmarks of gun-nuttery, from the disingenuous concern about other hazards without any suggested remedies to the strawman arguments that don't even acknowledge the existence of a middle ground, to the desire to own so many weapons that the guns must have a significance only he understands but cannot articulate. The arguments he makes bespeak a lack of awareness or concern for anything or anyone other than his hobby.

[rabbitfufu]

What about recently piolets stopped from pioleting planes while intoxicated, that would have been a mass killing

[filghy2]

The arguments he makes bespeak a lack of awareness or concern for anything or anyone other than his hobby.

I think you are being over-generous is describing his rants as arguments, bronco. He hasn't made anything resembling an argument: we're just inferring it.

You might be wrong about no James Joyces writing pro-gun arguments. Joyce did write a novel (Finnegan's Wake) is his own made-up version of English. I think rabbitfufu might be trying something similar.

[Laphroaig]

What about recently piolets stopped from pioleting planes while intoxicated, that would have been a mass killing

Are you drunk?

[Stavros]

A point of interest concerns the 'Red Flag' orders that enable law enforcement to seize the weapons from people -men- they suspect of planning violent attacks. In one case in Washington they did not seize the gun of the person concerned -he had 12. In another case in Florida, they seized 14 weapons. Owning a gun might be a Constitutional right, does that mean owning an arsenal is also allowed? When somebody other than a genuine collector needs 12, 14 or 40 weapons, is there not a legal right to ask why?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/red-flag-law-us-gun-control-mass-shootings-risk-protection-order-a9075491.html

[broncofan]

I think you are being over-generous is describing his rants as arguments, bronco. He hasn't made anything resembling an argument: we're just inferring it.

I love it when I argue with someone and they accuse me of inferring their conclusion. It's like, well someone has to attribute meaning and coherence to what you said right?

Sometimes people leave the conclusion to be inferred because they're embarrassed to say what they want to say and sometimes they're too lazy to close the loop. Sometimes also, if they spell it out its weakness is manifest...

[blackchubby38]

another dui death, another shooting death> Which one does the media choose to make their headline? MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. Like I said responsibly is the word many gun owners have not shot any one. Nor does every person that takes a drink harms people. IT IS THE PERSON THAT TAKES A LAW AND SCREEWS IT UP!!!!

Who died from a DUI?

[broncofan]

What about recently piolets stopped from pioleting planes while intoxicated, that would have been a mass killing
I think it's a great idea to exploit their hypothetical deaths to justify your useless hobby. It's even more effective when you take other people's real tragedies, offer no solution whatsoever and use them to dilute regulatory efforts. Let them know you care.

"Hi maam and sir, I know your son was killed by a drunk driver and I'd like to help out. Wait, you want me to speak out and offer solutions to drunk driving? No, I want to show the libtards a picture of your son before they try to TAKE MY GUNS AWAY!!! THE HUMANITY!"

[rabbitfufu]

I don't have an arsenal, 2 guns a Glock and a ar15. How many of alcohol do you have?? How many times have you driven drunk?? I go to the range load my gun shot for 2o minutes unload, go home clean gun lock gun into safe. I don't have that right?? What am I doing wrong?? This makes me a gun nut??

[Laphroaig]

I don't have an arsenal, 2 guns a Glock and a ar15. How many of alcohol do you have?? How many times have you driven drunk?? I go to the range load my gun shot for 2o minutes unload, go home clean gun lock gun into safe. I don't have that right?? What am I doing wrong?? This makes me a gun nut??

I don't drive.

Once again, why do you NEED an AR-15 to shoot paper targets? What about the handgun? Good for you locking them in a gun safe but that negates any home defence argument.

[Stavros]

I don't have an arsenal, 2 guns a Glock and a ar15. How many of alcohol do you have?? How many times have you driven drunk?? I go to the range load my gun shot for 2o minutes unload, go home clean gun lock gun into safe. I don't have that right?? What am I doing wrong?? This makes me a gun nut??

My question would be, why do you own a gun? I fear that Hollywood and Tv have nurtured a gun culture through decades of films and tv programmes in which the solution to every problem is to shoot it dead. That guns should be s embedded in American culture may explain the persistence of these lethal weapoons even more than the 2nd Amendment. Characters in film and tv used to smoke like chimneys but few do now; alcohol consumption in TV programmes is now rare, perhaps it is time for those who shape opinion to stop depicting good guys killing bad guys with guns, not least when in real life the so-called 'good guys' are cops killing men who don't have weapons.

Because it is not just the 2nd Amendment but laws on 'carry and conceal' and most of all 'stand your ground', the latter being a licence to kill as everyone who shoots someone dead can insist they believed the victim was about the attack them. Indeed, one day a mass shooter may claim self-defence on the basis that everyone in the Mall was out to get him, and he shot 10 dead to prevent them from doing so.

[rabbitfufu]

the ar 15 is something I ve had for over 20 years not new on the bandwagon

[Jericho]

the ar 15 is something I ve had for over 20 years not new on the bandwagon

Yeah...But that doesn't answer the question.

[rabbitfufu]

maybe if you asked me correctly why I have these guns instead of thinking with your balls ill explain my situation. MY family live on several hundred acres miles away from town it would at least an hour for local authorities to respond. I need to protect my family from 2 legged predators as well as 4 legged critters attacking my sheep. I'm not a city slicker just a old country man protecting my way of life. Please go slinking into your rat hole and say your sorry thinking that every person that has a gun is a nut .WE have a right to protect our famines, just because you think cops are going to save you ,think again You liberal idiots go to hell. leave Trump and the NRA alone Go feed all the poor bastards that come into the US illegally. Drink up and get drunk and kill people with new BMW'S END OF THIS THREAD!!!

[filghy2]

:werd:Ill let this thread die. I had to vent after seeing two little girls die as well as dad. Just frustration on stupid the world is. Between politicians, ultra billionaires that keep making more than God. Thank for listening to my rant of the week.:confused:


maybe if you asked me correctly why I have these guns instead of thinking with your balls ill explain my situation. MY family live on several hundred acres miles away from town it would at least an hour for local authorities to respond. I need to protect my family from 2 legged predators as well as 4 legged critters attacking my sheep. I'm not a city slicker just a old country man protecting my way of life. Please go slinking into your rat hole and say your sorry thinking that every person that has a gun is a nut .WE have a right to protect our famines, just because you think cops are going to save you ,think again You liberal idiots go to hell. leave Trump and the NRA alone Go feed all the poor bastards that come into the US illegally. Drink up and get drunk and kill people with new BMW'S END OF THIS THREAD!!!

Promise? You said that already on page 1.

[Laphroaig]

maybe if you asked me correctly why I have these guns instead of thinking with your balls ill explain my situation. MY family live on several hundred acres miles away from town it would at least an hour for local authorities to respond. I need to protect my family from 2 legged predators as well as 4 legged critters attacking my sheep. I'm not a city slicker just a old country man protecting my way of life. Please go slinking into your rat hole and say your sorry thinking that every person that has a gun is a nut .WE have a right to protect our famines, just because you think cops are going to save you ,think again You liberal idiots go to hell. leave Trump and the NRA alone Go feed all the poor bastards that come into the US illegally. Drink up and get drunk and kill people with new BMW'S END OF THIS THREAD!!!

You've had the AR 15 for 20 years and only fired it at paper targets. Proves you never needed it in the first place.

[broncofan]

What kind of 4 legged critters attacking your sheep require an assault weapon to fight off? What kind of attack on your ranch are you expecting that requires an AR-15? You expecting an invasion from a small army? A militia?

I don't think every person who owns a gun or even several guns is a nut. I don't think everyone who disagrees on this issue is a nut. I think you're a nut because you repeat arguments that don't make sense and you insist you need a weapon fit for waging war. Way of life? Foreigners coming into our country? People invading your ranch? Sounds like you're naturally hostile to other people.

[broncofan]

Also, imagine making the argument that you're a humble rancher that bmw driving elites don't understand and then demanding people leave alone your president, an incompetent who inherited millions of dollars, who pisses in a golden toilet and created a university solely to scam credulous people out of tuition while offering them nothing.

[trish]

I thought that little bunny foo foo was only hopping through the forest scooping up field mice and boppin’ ‘em on the head. Only a loon would claim they need an AR-15 for that.

[Laphroaig]

BMW drivers might be able to go on drunken rampages but Volvo drivers may not.

https://accessories.volvocars.com/en-cz/XC60(-17)/Accessories/Document/VCC-499593/2017

"Alcoguard is an integrated, user-friendly and reliable alcohol lock based on advanced fuel cell technology.

The unique Alcoguard is integrated in the car's electronics. The alcohol meter is connected to the car by cable and is heated ready for use in 10 seconds1. To shorten the waiting time, heating starts when the central locking is activated. When the driver blows into the alcohol meter the result is shown the car's driver display.

When the driver exhales, Alcoguard will give a green light if the reading is below 0.1 permille / 0.01 BAC. If the result is above 0.1 permille / 0.01 BAC but below the set permille limit (programmed at installation according to specific market requirements), Alcoguard will display a yellow light. The car can be driven but the driver is recommended to wait for the green light. Alcoguard shows a red light and the car cannot be started if the result is above the programmed permille limit."

Wonder how rabbitfufu would react to similar technology being introduced to allow access to his gun safe?

[peejaye]

maybe if you asked me correctly why I have these guns instead of thinking with your balls ill explain my situation. MY family live on several hundred acres miles away from town it would at least an hour for local authorities to respond. I need to protect my family from 2 legged predators as well as 4 legged critters attacking my sheep. I'm not a city slicker just a old country man protecting my way of life. Please go slinking into your rat hole and say your sorry thinking that every person that has a gun is a nut .WE have a right to protect our famines, just because you think cops are going to save you ,think again You liberal idiots go to hell. leave Trump and the NRA alone Go feed all the poor bastards that come into the US illegally. Drink up and get drunk and kill people with new BMW'S END OF THIS THREAD!!!

It's a shame you gave these pompous smug supremacists 7/8 pages of food and drink instead of taking my advice and staying off of here as the owner of this site recommends people to do in the first place rabbit ! He gave that advice for a good reason.

[broncofan]

It's a shame you gave these pompous smug supremacists 7/8 pages of food and drink instead of taking my advice and staying off of here as the owner of this site recommends people to do in the first place rabbit ! He gave that advice for a good reason.
You're one of the biggest clowns I've seen on this side of the forum. You have no viewpoint on any issue and choose your position based on who you feel bitterness towards. No contribution to discourse, no genuine commitment to any cause, just misanthropy. An enemies list in place of policy objectives.

[filghy2]

It's a shame you gave these pompous smug supremacists 7/8 pages of food and drink instead of taking my advice and staying off of here as the owner of this site recommends people to do in the first place rabbit ! He gave that advice for a good reason.

So why aren't you following your own advice?

[Laphroaig]

You're one of the biggest clowns I've seen on this side of the forum. You have no viewpoint on any issue and choose your position based on who you feel bitterness towards. No contribution to discourse, no genuine commitment to any cause, just misanthropy. An enemies list in place of policy objectives.

Doesn't like discussion and education either given he downvoted the post below...:shrug


is it not important to address the various issues within this thread through discussion and hopefully education. Even if he doesn't benefit, others may do so from reading the arguments and information presented.

[peejaye]

Tragic. I just hope you've got a box of tissues handy:D

[Laphroaig]

Tragic. I just hope you've got a box of tissues handy:D

Thanks for proving just what a petty little individual you really are...

Ps. You missed one. ;)

[Stavros]

Tragic. I just hope you've got a box of tissues handy:D

I have tissues handy, but not for tears. Question is, Peejaye, do you own a gun? Do you have a view on gun crime in either the US or the UK? The documentary that aired earlier this year about gun crime in the UK, Gun No 6 (made in 2018 ) is one of the most powerful essays on the subject I have seen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0btt5pf

[broncofan]

Tragic. I just hope you've got a box of tissues handy:D
If you have issues with one or two people it might be a personality conflict, but who do you think the problem is when you cannot have a discussion with anyone?

This is an obvious thing a parent tells a child but I hope you don't find this bit of common sense patronizing.

Stavros, by recommending a documentary on gun crime you've proven yourself to be FAR right wing. The docu was produced by the BBC and one can only wonder how many other far right wingers like yourself participated in its making. The progressive position is to align yourself with a guy who fears legal restrictions on military weapons while holed up on his ranch looking to spray wildlife with bullets and wondering when the invasion is coming.

[filghy2]

Question is, Peejaye, do you own a gun? Do you have a view on gun crime in either the US or the UK?

Funny you should ask that, Stavros. A couple of years ago, before he become all bitter and twisted, he was on our side on this issue. I can recall him arguing with Mr Fanti, who later became one of his besties.

He's not likely to respond given he previously said he had blocked us all. It looks like Laphroig is the only one he hasn't yet blocked. It's seriously weird when a person who claims to be left-wing is now lurking around this section solely in the hope that there might be right-wingers arguing with us who he can befriend.

[Laphroaig]

Funny you should ask that, Stavros. A couple of years ago, before he become all bitter and twisted, he was on our side on this issue. I can recall him arguing with Mr Fanti, who later became one of his besties.

He's not likely to respond given he previously said he had blocked us all. It looks like Laphroig is the only one he hasn't yet blocked. It's seriously weird when a person who claims to be left-wing is now lurking around this section solely in the hope that there might be right-wingers arguing with us who he can befriend.

The plus side of being blocked by him is he can't see your posts and downvote them. Anyone got a box of tissues I can borrow? I'm so upset that I'm off to cry in the corner...

[peejaye]

I have tissues handy, but not for tears. Question is, Peejaye, do you own a gun? Do you have a view on gun crime in either the US or the UK? The documentary that aired earlier this year about gun crime in the UK, Gun No 6 (made in 2018 ) is one of the most powerful essays on the subject I have seen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0btt5pf

check pm

[Laphroaig]

Latest shooting from Texas from a car. At least 5 dead. Thank goodness he wasn't drunk as well. Though that might have affected his aim.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49540160

And what happens, gun laws are loosened instead of tightened. Granted the timing is a coincidence, but still.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/01/us/texas-new-gun-laws-trnd/index.html

https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/#s-lg-box-wrapper-25371859

[trish]

There are some people who simply get drunk on guns. Either they’re wired that way or, more likely, they’ve fallen victim to an addictive feedback loop. It can be a thrilling experience to discharge a firearm or even to watch. We all know this vicarious thrill from watching movies. For an enthusiast each crack and kick of a firearm can jolt the brain with endorphins and dopamine. A hundred rounds a minute floods the brain with pleasure inducing neurotransmitters and everything about guns becomes associated with this pleasure. Those who have ‘learned’ or been ‘self-conditioned’ to associate firearms with this pleasure can’t help themselves. They crave guns. They read about guns, they buy guns, they handle them, want to feel them and of course to shoot them.
Of course people love and collect any number of things: antiques, shot glasses, stamps, shoes, books, ukuleles, shoes, jewelry, hats, cars (did I already say shoes?) and so on. But the fetish with firearms can and often does take a disturbing twist. Proficiency with and ownership of a small personal arsenal can give an insecure man a heightened sense of power and of superiority which combine (like alcohol) to lessen their inhibitions. When high on this sense of power they talk loudly and aggressively of ‘second amendment solutions‘ to social and personal problems. You may think it’s just banter, but they engage in it to inflate their sense of power and superiority and to hide from themselves their own insecurities and prejudices. When those insecurities begin to peek through and make themselves felt, the firearm fetishist will step-up the aggression to re-inflate and buttress his sense of superiority. When this loop finally swings out of control people are injured, people are killed and we read about in the headlines.

We don’t ban alcohol. We tried and it didn’t work. However, we do heavily regulate and tax it. You can’t have an open container in a car. In many small municipalities you can’t have an open container in the street. Yet you can have a loaded firearm in your car or on your person as you walk the street from one establishment to another. Just this week in Odessa Texas a man who was carrying a loaded assault weapon in his car killed a policeman who pulled him over for not using his turn signal! The offender then drove around shooting random people.

Assault weapons were designed to assault people and kill them. They’re not for sports shooting. It’s past time we ban them.

[broncofan]

Everyone has met at least one person who should not own a gun. The person with impulse control problems but no condition that would keep them from getting one. The person with substance abuse problems who becomes wild and threatening when drunk or high on whatever.

I knew someone in college who took steroids and had roid rage. The guy tried to run through a chain fence to get at someone. It's now a thing among meatheads to argue that there's no such thing as roid rage because the roids only take anger that's there and make it worse. But that IS roid rage. Something lies dormant until it's woken.

The gun problem is kind of like that in that it takes something in these people that's there, but mostly dormant, and gives it a shake. I'm not saying the killers are not culpable. They've done indefensible things that could never be redeemed. But there are probably circumstances where they could have gone through their lives without ever killing anyone. They would have ups and downs, frustrations and disappointments, late night binges and even uncontrollable rage, without access to a piece of equipment that makes the act of killing consist almost entirely of intent. Guns of the future will plug right into their id.

[broncofan]

I have a sneaking feeling peejaye unblocked me since he voted down 20 of my posts. I knew he didn't have the self-control to keep the block on:D. Ever thought of a counterargument big guy?

[Laphroaig]

I have a sneaking feeling peejaye unblocked me since he voted down 20 of my posts. I knew he didn't have the self-control to keep the block on:D. Ever thought of a counterargument big guy?

I think we're going to need a bigger box of tissues...