Banks and the Sex Industry

[BeardedOne]

A friend has been reading where sex workers (Cam girls, dancers, performers, etc.) are having their bank accounts closed or are being refused service by banks because of their profession. She wants to know more about this.

Have you ever been refused an account or had one closed because you were a sex worker? Was it a business or personal account? How did they find out about your profession? Was there a valid reason for their decision (A particular clause in the bank's rules or the merchant contract if it was a business account)?

Can anyone recommend a bank that doesn't have issues with this?

As one performer put it: "If I can't have a bank account, how does the government want me to pay my taxes? Used panties and 8 x 10s?"

[slave2u]

who goes into the bank and puts 'sex worker' as a profession?
just pick a career that allows for irregular cash deposits - self employed - therapist, consultant, dancer, writer, performer etc.

[filghy2]

If this is happening it might be a response to particular laws about money from illegal activities, rather than questions or morality. Since when has the banking industry cared about anything other than making money?

[BeardedOne]

who goes into the bank and puts 'sex worker' as a profession?
just pick a career that allows for irregular cash deposits - self employed - therapist, consultant, dancer, writer, performer etc.

That's what I'd like to find out. The cases I've found via my Google Fu were all high-profile superstars that, for some reason, hit the radar of the bank (Prolly 'cuz the minions were wankin' on bank hours and couldn't keep their mouths shut).

Of course, some stuff draws attention. I had a banker accuse me of running a porn shop because they had no concept of a store that only sold comic books. Hence, book store = porn. Limousine services often had issues as so many of them were improperly licensed/uninsured cottage industries that often had charge-back issues with credit card processing.

In this case, the lady is a licensed, trained, properly insured massage therapist with...a side business. So, of course, she has an interest in how others conduct their biz. She said there was a lot of issue with banking, but the only instances I could find were the above mentioned, high-profile stars, and the payment processing services like PayPal, etc.

So, how else might a bank find out about the account holder's profession and why would they care, so long as their fees are paid?

[BeardedOne]

If this is happening it might be a response to particular laws about money from illegal activities, rather than questions or morality. Since when has the banking industry cared about anything other than making money?

Exactly. But how do they find out about the activity? If you're just depositing checks from a cam site (Usually under a parent tech company), how would they know if the source was or wasn't nefarious?

I understand how payment sites like PayPal and direct processors like Square, etc. can come back to bite you. A client decides he didn't like the experience (Or is just a cheap motherfucker, like a former partner of mine, and just wants a free ride) and contests the charge on their account. Enough chargebacks and *BANG*, you're done.

But if you're getting legit payments from cam sites or parent companies like Grooby (Just as an example) how does the bank figure out your profession and under what clause, rule, or whim do they shut down your account?

I'm waiting to see if I get some responses from the gurls (Or the guys that work with them) to see if they've had issues and how they've dealt with them.

[Aticus100]

Don't know if you are talking UK but or US and I'm certainly no expert but oddly enough I just did a short course today at work relating to such things and was told that any business, including a bank, that knowingly receives money from illegal activities is committing the crime on knowing engaging in the laundering or the proceeds of crime.

The crux of it being that no company is obligated to do business with anyone if they don't want to so if the bank believes the proceeds is from illegal activity, they can refuse your business. They don't have to prove it, they just have to believe it in order for it to be reasonable for them to refuse.

(subject of course to them not having refused as a result of discrimination in relation to a protected characteristic)

[BeardedOne]

Don't know if you are talking UK but or US and I'm certainly no expert but oddly enough I just did a short course today at work relating to such things and was told that any business, including a bank, that knowingly receives money from illegal activities is committing the crime on knowing engaging in the laundering or the proceeds of crime.

The crux of it being that no company is obligated to do business with anyone if they don't want to so if the bank believes the proceeds is from illegal activity, they can refuse your business. They don't have to prove it, they just have to believe it in order for it to be reasonable for them to refuse.

(subject of course to them not having refused as a result of discrimination in relation to a protected characteristic)

But how do they figure out if it is an illegal activity or not? And how is a paper trail, with 1099-INT and Schedule C filings, in any way considered 'money laundering'?

Cam work is legal. Massage therapy is legal (But highly suspect and harassed because people suck). Writing porn, modelling, etc. are legal.

So, we're back to the original questions: How do they determine if you're a sex worker (Of any kind) and if your work is legal, under what rules do they shut down your accounts?

[slave2u]

in the thread i can't see anything that says what the sex workers were told by the banks in question.
i would imagine that a reason has to be given and that reason has to relate to T&Cs of the bank, and proof of breach of T&Cs shown.
if not then they should demand to see it.
there must also be some recourse to report the bank for bad service.a local chamber of commerce, a local ombudsman.

one other tip use a different name for performing and real name for banking.

[filghy2]

Rather than people here speculating on the basis of incomplete information, wouldn't the best advice to anyone affected be to consult a good lawyer? I know it's annoying to have to spend money defending rights you previously took for granted, but sometimes it is necessary.

At a minimum, they could write to the bank asking for a clear statement of reasons (if one has not been given) and/or asking for a review of the decision if they believe they have done nothing illegal and can demonstrate this.

[BeardedOne]

I'm still waiting to see if someone weighs in with personal experience. That's really what I'm looking for, a little Q&A on what details led to the bank's discovery of their profession, etc. I'm also curious what happens to the money in the accounts. It can't go to civil forfeiture if there's no charges or proven crime.

[GroobySteven]

I have both experience and knowledge of this.
We were with Central Pacific Bank when we were in Hawaii for about 8 years, we were called one morning and told, they don't want to do business with us any longer and we were given two weeks to find new banks. They had a new CEO who was religious and he didn't want adult business as part of his bank.

Despite my company and many others having a track record, of decades, being transparent, never taking a loan of having any issues, we're considered 'high risk' because we work in adult. We tried to get a business mortgage in California and were unable to because we work in adult.

I know models/escorts who have had their personal accounts closed when the banks have discovered that they are escorting, or doing adult work, even in a legal way. Banks do due diligence with all their clients and this is how they find out.

There are less than 10 US banks that process for adult. There are 1000's that process non-adult.

[krissy4u]

Absolutely affects smaller individuals as well. I've excellent credit and have been denied merchant accounts, bank accounts, and loans due to being "in the industry"... and I'm probably about as discreet about it as they come. This isn't my imagination either - I've been bluntly told by merchant account providers that they won't process adult industry funds. Additionally, if you actually read the extremely, very fine, miniscule print of most banking transactions as described, it forbids things like gambling, illegal activity, and adult industry transactions.

Things are KIND of changing with independent card processors but it is still difficult if you don't have a way to be discreet about it. TBH, you should always tell the truth about your business when it comes to banking anyways - to stay out of future trouble.

And to the point about fighting - yeah... you're NEVER going to win a fight with a major (or even a smaller) bank. You can destroy them on social media as some people have - but in the end - they just aren't going to care about you as an individual and you're just going to waste time, energy, and your own resources trying to legally fight something like this.

[flabbybody]

After 9/11 Congress passed the PATRIOT Act which made banks responsible for tracking deposit activity that could have ties to terrorist groups. It's scary that certain financial service firms are using the law for a misguided moral crusade.
If the banks are publicly traded shareholders should know their CEO's are religious fanatics. If nothing else, it's really bad for business.

[sukumvit boy]

Boy, if this isn't an issue that's ripe for a legal challenge , I don't know what is!
Problem is , in our system in the US it takes either very deep pockets or hooking up with the right civil rights group that does.

[BeardedOne]

There are less than 10 US banks that process for adult. There are 1000's that process non-adult.

Any recommendations?

Also, you mention processing. There's always been a number of horror stories about charge processing (Frozen PayPal accounts, etc.), but this would just be things like check deposits, etc. under an LLC account. Business license, documented stuff (There's actually legal therapeutic massage going on), etc.

[BeardedOne]

Thanks to all those that have weighed in so far. Please keep the notes coming.

[GroobySteven]

Any recommendations?

Also, you mention processing. There's always been a number of horror stories about charge processing (Frozen PayPal accounts, etc.), but this would just be things like check deposits, etc. under an LLC account. Business license, documented stuff (There's actually legal therapeutic massage going on), etc.

Email me at admin@grooby.com and tell me more what you're looking for. Third party might be the way to go, otherwise you might have to look at getting your own merchant account.

[BeardedOne]

Email me at admin@grooby.com and tell me more what you're looking for. Third party might be the way to go, otherwise you might have to look at getting your own merchant account.

Thanks, you may even see me in Vegas next month. I'll buy you a beer or ten.