No, I Don't Have To Tell You I'm Trans Before Dating You

[retroboy]

Does anyone agree its transphobic to have know if someone is trans before dating them?

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/no-dont-have-to-tell-you-im-trans-before-dating-you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wve1coCbSNw

[nysprod]

I think it's legitimate to want to know if someone is trans before dating them. It's safer for the trans girl also, as it weeds out transphobes who may turn violent.

[Torris]

Identity Politics can get you killed. You want to feel empowered that it doesn't matter? Or shouldn't matter? Wrong. It matters.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

Transphobic? Not at all. Do you have to tell someone you're trans? No. But don't get mad when someone isn't with it and they get upset when they find out. There are still physical differences between Trans women and GG women. Not liking men doesn't mean you're homophobic. Not liking trans women doesn't make you transphobic. Not being attracted to a certain race doesn't make you racist. It's somewhat selfish(yet, somewhat understandable) to not tell someone the truth.

As for the ones that get a kick out of tricking guys, I don't agree with a violent response, but aren't looking at them with complete innocence either.

[Ts RedVeX]

If you are dumb enough to date someone you do not know, then don't get upset when it turns out your date is trans.

[legault]

Damn sjws

Of course you should tell them before, not everyone has to like you!

[sockratees]

This is one of the dumbest things I have every heard. This is the equivalent of a guy telling a girl:

"No, I Don't Have To Tell You I'm Married Before Dating You"

[joesocalif]

If I remember correctly assault is illegal. That's is what should be considered.

[Ts RedVeX]

Why would one "date" anyone they don't know? - unless, of course, one wants to fool a girl and get laid for free! - Well, fuck you. My private parts are private, and no, you do not need to know unless I wan't or need you to.

Unless you are openly meeting up for a shag. Only then, do not call it a date.

[Chaos]

Personally,I don't care if you tell me or not....If we don't click it won't matter,if we do,it doesn't matter....

[holzz]

since there are more open trans-attracted dudes than ever before now, why not just date them openly? I don't thin it's safe, even if a guy won't kill the woman, it's still deceit.

That said, I do understand it could be perceived as transphobic, but nothing wrong with being open from the outset.

[SXFX]

the classic catch 22 of the trans world.

Every trans woman wants to be loved for who she is....and yes she should be loved and desired for who she is as a person.....regardless of her gender. and yes in a perfect world she will bump into prince charming who will not care....

And all the while she, the trans woman, looks at any guy who is actually ok with dating trans women or is actually perusing dating trans women to be a "faggot" or a "chaser" and thus not worth her time.

if you thin the usual GG story of the "nice guy" is fucking fucktarded this little thing is even more fucktarded.

oddly the only women who get this are the plus sized ladies......they know that chubby chasers is where they will get the love and adoration they deserve......thus they don't try to "turn" guys who are not into them into them....but then again a chubby can't hide being skinny? so maybe it's not the right match.

That said
1) Please ladies please be safe out there!
2) Sigh.....god you are going to fucking hate to hear this...if a guy says he's ok with dating trans women don't discount him......he may just be your prince charming and may treat you like the angel that you are.

now back to your regularly scheduled drama

[lifeisfiction]

There should always be some honesty about the person you are going out on date with. Failure to comply will have consequences (more than just physical harm). Doesn't matter you may not care, you have to respect the other person feelings. More lies and deceit built into the foundation of the relationship the more likely it won't go well in long run. I think if you like someone and want a relationship or like someone and it expect it to go forward, I think it would be good to explain to the person you are trans. What they do with information will tell the type of person they are. It's that guy I know who lied about his background and then found out she was the women he wanted all along and she would have dated him for who he is, but alas he couldn't undo the lie.

[IluvemHung]

A person should have a fair warning for many things like, if a person is married, HIV pos, gay trans, lesbian, killer, convicted felon, etc. Etc...

[Ts RedVeX]

I assure you that my arguments have nothing to do with social justice.

According to dictionaries, a "woman" is an adult female human being. According to the same dictionaries, a female is a person whose sex enables them to bear offspring or produce eggs. Having read those two one might think like you: a tranny cannot bear offspring, therefore they are not a woman. Let it sink for a while and tell me what you would call an adult human being who was born female, or a girl, and then lost the ability to bear offspring? Is it still a woman, or female, after reaching adulthood?

I am not going to elaborate any further on this matter but the definition of "woman" in dictionaries is obsolete and needs to be updated, so that it no longer has any connection with female. This way you will still have men and women, males and females, living along happily, and getting to know each other before they decide to spend their time and money on the so-called "dating". Personally, I would not date anyone I hadn't known and be in good relations with for at least a few years.

About deception, unless you specify to your date that you would like to have sex with them during your appointment, I cannot see why it would be relevant for them to reveal what their underpants conceal - be it a dick, pussy, period, warts, or a bag of weed. It is just none of your business, especially when you have concealed the fact that you just want to get laid rather than engage in romantic stuff people usually do on dates.

P.S. How would you like your girlfriend or wife to be addressed to as trans-lady at a restaurant? Surely that would be awesome wouldn't it?? Revealing to all the guests sitting at the near tables that your date has a dick... xd

[Sabrinna]

If we don't click it won't matter,if we do,it doesn't matter....

Thank you

[lifeisfiction]

I assure you that my arguments have nothing to do with social justice.

According to dictionaries, a "woman" is an adult female human being. According to the same dictionaries, a female is a person whose sex enables them to bear offspring or produce eggs. Having read those two one might think like you: a tranny cannot bear offspring, therefore they are not a woman. Let it sink for a while and tell me what you would call an adult human being who was born female, or a girl, and then lost the ability to bear offspring? Is it still a woman, or female, after reaching adulthood?

I am not going to elaborate any further on this matter but the definition of "woman" in dictionaries is obsolete and needs to be updated, so that it no longer has any connection with female. This way you will still have men and women, males and females, living along happily, and getting to know each other before they decide to spend their time and money on the so-called "dating". Personally, I would not date anyone I hadn't known and be in good relations with for at least a few years.

About deception, unless you specify to your date that you would like to have sex with them during your appointment, I cannot see why it would be relevant for them to reveal what their underpants conceal - be it a dick, pussy, period, warts, or a bag of weed. It is just none of your business, especially when you have concealed the fact that you just want to get laid rather than engage in romantic stuff people usually do on dates.

P.S. How would you like your girlfriend or wife to be addressed to as trans-lady at a restaurant? Surely that would be awesome wouldn't it?? Revealing to all the guests sitting at the near tables that your date has a dick... xd

I think everyone is talking about dating a person. In that context some things should be disclosed. I don't think anyone talked about telling every person on the street their own personal things. And we are not talking about just having dinner or causal conversation. I understand your point, but what would like to the world to be and the world that we currently live in are two different things. Nor was anyone talking about an appointment (unless I misread). I think many people want some sort of honesty in a relationship. A friend of mine always wanted to have his own kids. He dated a woman who couldn't have children. She was open and honest about it and they got married. They have adopted several kids and they are doing great. Not so well for the guy who didn't tell his gf he was infertile and she found out right before they were going to be married when they went to get blood work and some other things done. It went south. Honesty helps in a relationship.

[tacocorpv2]

Personally to me it does not matter, but given that not everyone is like me I wager it'd be safer in general to let them know (IF things are about to get serious enough) All depending on the situation I guess.

[gaysian71]

I personally don't care if a woman discloses her status to me or not. But that's because I happen to prefer a trans woman over a genetic woman. But over the years I have gotten to know quite a few trans women. And I don't think any of them would try to fool a man by not disclosing her trans status before the dating gets to having sex. Even the most passable ones.

[gaysian71]

Oh and one more thing
Blair said that there are a lot of men who don't want to be with a trans woman. I call bs on that. If the statistics on how many men watch trans porn are correct . Then I think the majority of men do want to be with a trans woman. But they've been shamed into not admitting it. But that's just mostly from religious beliefs.

[nysprod]

Oh and one more thing
Blair said that there are a lot of men who don't want to be with a trans woman. I call bs on that. If the statistics on how many men watch trans porn are correct . Then I think the majority of men do want to be with a trans woman. But they've been shamed into not admitting it. But that's just mostly from religious beliefs.

I think every hetero man is turned on by trannies, but how far he'll take it is proportional to how much he can get over himself.

[THEbottom]

Well, I don't spend much time worrying about labels so I'm probably not the best one to ask if it is transphobic or not !!! However, suffice it to say that if I didn't know and found out on the date it would be a spectacularly sweet surprise !

[bryanferryfan2]

I think you should be honest plain and simple. People have a right to know what they're getting involved with. They should be allowed to determine whether or not he or she is willing to date a trans person.

[Laphroaig]

Oh and one more thing
Blair said that there are a lot of men who don't want to be with a trans woman. I call bs on that. If the statistics on how many men watch trans porn are correct . Then I think the majority of men do want to be with a trans woman. But they've been shamed into not admitting it. But that's just mostly from religious beliefs.

Depends on how you define "want to be with". Plenty who are curious and would watch TS porn, but from there on I'd bet it's a rapidly sliding scale from, might try a ladyboy once in Thailand, down to, want to be in a committed relationship with one.
Seriously doubt there's an accurate answer to this, but willing to be proved wrong.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

Depends on how you define "want to be with". Plenty who are curious and would watch TS porn, but from there on I'd bet it's a rapidly sliding scale from, might try a ladyboy once in Thailand, down to, want to be in a committed relationship with one.
Seriously doubt there's an accurate answer to this, but willing to be proved wrong.

This.

There are plenty of people who hate Islam and everyone who practices it but would not pass up a chance to fuck Mia Khalifa. Be in a relationship? That's a whole different level. It's not a black or white answer

[bluesoul]

this is a silly question. i like how it's being debated. who even asks this kind of question?

[retroboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0xbQGEplw0

[CuriousClient]

I mean, its kind of a win win don't you think? You would assume it's someone you're genuinely attracted to, inside and out, and that they're trans with what could only be described as an awesome extra, it's all the better! Or another way to say it, you can tell me that as long as you don't me gleefully clapping my hands and trying to hide my erection.

[Billy Blueballs]

I think every hetero man is turned on by trannies, but how far he'll take it is proportional to how much he can get over himself.

Every hetero man? Look, I understand that a lot of people want the rest of the world to think exactly the way they do. Obviously most guys here would especially love that idea. But would you say that "every hetero woman is turned on by trannies, but how far she'll take it is proportional to how much she can get over herself"?
Now wouldn't that would sound ridiculous?

But back to the topic, I think the point Blair White makes is sound. I can remember when the urban myth was about how transexuals try to "trick" guys. Of course that was actual "transphobic" conservative hysteria. As if taking the chance of a beating or death was worth the risk.
As much as I support LGBT rights and I abhor any discrimination, I wish the SJW types would accept that they are not the norm and we do not live in a utopia with self driving unicorns. If you're about to get on an intimate level with someone who might not know your genetic/sexual identity then it's most likely that you have no idea of who they are. Or how they would react...

It's not even about the whole SJW nonsense at that point - it's common sense. And even if the person doesn't get violent, they might still be extremely upset and even psychologically fucked up by it. I don't know if that Riley Dennis type just wants everyone to be as confused as herself, but her stance that trans people not disclose their identity before engaging in any kind of dating situation is irresponsible and potentially dangerous.

[MrFanti]

Every hetero man? t her stance that trans people not disclose their identity before engaging in any kind of dating situation is irresponsible and potentially dangerous.

Agreed.
To say that every heterosexual male is attracted transgender women without any supportive facts is a long shot at best.

[diddyboponTOP]

Yes they should have to tell someone
We still live in a world where many men will actually kill them for such a trick

[nitron]

-++Retroboy.....you answered your own question with the Blair video, that's beautiful.
....TsRedVex///// U'r approach is definitely the best and Blair's argument at it's logical conclusion.
.....SJW's ........sure go ahead don't tell, of course they should take what you give them, take chances, you go girl...

[retroboy]

This is why transgender people need to disclose before being sexual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRbOth_EvtY

[trish]

Men should have to tell if you if they're killers or not before you date them - don't you agree?

[Samui]

If you are dumb enough to date someone you do not know, then don't get upset when it turns out your date is trans.


Why would one "date" anyone they don't know?

So they can get to know them because they found them endearing for a multitude of possible reasons. i.e. the major point and impetus of dating. Grats on being a total mental midget.

[Aticus100]

So I'm dating a transgender girl and we were seeing each other for a couple of weeks before she told me she was trans.
Took a little getting my head round but had decided I liked her so much by then that it was wasn't the most important thing to me.
The thing is, at the time I had no experience or knowledge of trans girls and if I had known would probably not have been interested.
Did I feel tricked? No.
Did she deliberately keep the truth from me until she knew I had fallen for her a little? Yes.
Am I glad she did? Oh hell yes!!!

[lerfdunner]

I think it should be disclosed before anything gets too serious, there was a recent article about a guy stabbing a transgender lady 119 times after finding out. It should be disclosed for her own safety. I'm not justifying the attacks, but it does happen. Not every guy is gonna go stabbing, but still.

On the other less-life threatening hand, it could be emotional pain, she could reveal the truth after they both find a deep connection, but then he breaks up with her because it's just not something he wants - which is perfectly fair. Also he might feel betrayed as she's kept this from him, what else is she keeping etc.? Then both parties are hurt, no one wins.

[kmersh]

I met my Wife about a year and a half ago and she is trans.

However, she did write about it on her internet profile, nor did she tell me during our conversations prior to meeting in person.

In fact, it was only after we were saying Goodbye for the night did she tell me. Honestly, while I enjoy visiting this site, I never expected to actually meet someone in real life who is trans as it was always something for the internet space and honestly not even that sexual for me.

I almost said that I was not cool with it, but I thought better of it as we had a truly amazing conversation and actually were the last customers to leave the restaurant.

In the end, I am glad that she didn't tell me at first as I might have said no, but by not knowing at first, I was able to get to know her and realize that it doesn't make any difference.

Granted, each situation is unique.

[onmykneeslee]

yes. And she is free to ask me anything and i will answer. But if you have or had a penis is a big deal to many. And should be. Honesty people.

[trish]

I had a friend in college who was infertile due to developmental disorder. She was very pretty, sexually active and, as many girls her age, was looking for Mr. Right. Did she immediately tell every man she went out on a date with about her issue? Of course not. Is there any point if it becomes clear the relationship won’t make it past two or three dates? The question for her was, how serious could she allow the relationship to go before she informed the man of her condition?

I always felt a special empathy for her because my situation was not dissimilar to hers. Suppose a man is interested in you. He strikes up a conversation. You find you have similar interests. You can easily rift and opine on each others stories. You find you are attracted to each. So after an hour or so the man says, “Would you like to have diner this evening?” How do you respond? “Sure but you should know I’m transgender,”? This was at a time in my life when passing was everything. I didn’t (and still don’t) want to reveal to every stranger my more intimate secrets; and although we got along and liked each other for the last hour this man is still a stranger - at this stage could I trust him to keep the things I tell him about myself to himself? Of course not.

Of course I have a dick and my friend has a vagina. She could probably have married a guy without him knowing about her condition. That (imo) would’ve been unethical. (She didn’t btw). A transgender woman with vaginoplasty could perhaps do the same - again unethical. There’s a point when you need to tell, but when?
For me the question wasn’t about marriage or children. It was just about sex. It would be pretty rude of me spring my boner on a unsuspecting guy two minutes before we about to tumble into the sack. The question is still, “How serious do I let the relationship get before I tell him?” The answer is probably before we have sex, but how do I know when that’s going to happen - nobody sets a date for that. So sometimes accidents happen. Rarely for me, but were times when it was just to late and the moment arrived. Once the guy was very polite, made his excuses, apologized and left. Once the guy screamed at me, and punched me the stomach.

There was another time when I got cut. I told this story in a thread on HA ages ago. I was out with some girlfriends one evening we decided to go a bar - there was only one and it was a dive. We all got a bit tipsy and some guys came over to our table to chat us up. There was a juke box and they wanted to dance. I saw no harm in that. However, my partner turned out to be an octopus. I kept pulling his hands off me. “This is definitely going the last dance,” I thought when suddenly I felt his hand grab me where only reality-tv-hosts get to grab. At first we were both in shock. Then he started shouting to the whole joint that I was a man. Before I knew it he had knife in his hand and arm had been opened up (required stitches but nothing serious). The bouncer and the bartender intervened and my friends got me out of there. So should you tell someone you’re transgender before you accept a dance? Of course not.

People have got to learn to be civil even as we all have to be wary that some people are just unreasonable, ignorant jerks.

The targets of violence are not responsible for the violence done to them. It is not our duty to deflect it by adding even more tedium to our lives. “Is my dress too provocative?” “Should I tell I’m transgender before he buys me that coffee?” Those of us who claim we live in a civilized society have a duty to support civilized norms. We can start by blaming the perpetrators of violence and not the people they violate.

[trish]

I had a friend in college who was infertile due to developmental disorder. She was very pretty, sexually active and, as many girls her age, was looking for Mr. Right. Did she immediately tell every man she went out on a date with about her issue? Of course not. Is there any point if it becomes clear the relationship won’t make it past two or three dates? The question for her was, how serious could she allow the relationship to go before she informed the man of her condition?

I always felt a special empathy for her because my situation was not dissimilar to hers. Suppose a man is interested in you. He strikes up a conversation. You find you have similar interests. You can easily rift and opine on each others stories. You find you are attracted to each. So after an hour or so the man says, “Would you like to have diner this evening?” How do you respond? “Sure but you should know I’m transgender,”? This was at a time in my life when passing was everything. I didn’t (and still don’t) want to reveal to every stranger my more intimate secrets; and although we got along and liked each other for the last hour this man is still a stranger - at this stage could I trust him to keep the things I tell him about myself to himself? Of course not.

Of course I have a dick and my friend has a vagina. She could probably have married a guy without him knowing about her condition. That (imo) would’ve been unethical. (She didn’t btw). A transgender woman with vaginoplasty could perhaps do the same - again unethical. There’s a point when you need to tell, but when?
For me the question wasn’t about marriage or children. It was just about sex. It would be pretty rude of me spring my boner on a unsuspecting guy two minutes before we about to tumble into the sack. The question is still, “How serious do I let the relationship get before I tell him?” The answer is probably before we have sex, but how do I know when that’s going to happen - nobody sets a date for that. So sometimes accidents happen. Rarely for me, but were times when it was just to late and the moment arrived. Once the guy was very polite, made his excuses, apologized and left. Once the guy screamed at me, and punched me the stomach.

There was another time when I got cut. I told this story in a thread on HA ages ago. I was out with some girlfriends one evening we decided to go a bar - there was only one and it was a dive. We all got a bit tipsy and some guys came over to our table to chat us up. There was a juke box and they wanted to dance. I saw no harm in that. However, my partner turned out to be an octopus. I kept pulling his hands off me. “This is definitely going the last dance,” I thought when suddenly I felt his hand grab me where only reality-tv-hosts get to grab. At first we were both in shock. Then he started shouting to the whole joint that I was a man. Before I knew it he had knife in his hand and arm had been opened up (required stitches but nothing serious). The bouncer and the bartender intervened and my friends got me out of there. So are you obligated to tell someone you're transgender before accepting a dance? Of course not.

People have got to learn to be civil even as we all have to be wary that some people are just unreasonable, ignorant jerks.

The targets of violence are not responsible for the violence done to them. It is not our duty to deflect it by adding even more tedium to our lives. “Is my dress too provocative?” “Should I tell I’m transgender before he buys me that coffee?” Those of us who claim we live in a civilized society have a duty to support civilized norms. We can start by blaming the perpetrators of violence and not the people they violate.

[Aticus100]

The subject of when to tell is very tricky.
I go out clubbing very often with a group of trans friends including my partner. We are into swinging and it is not uncommon for the girls to hook up with guys while clubbing for some fun.
Guys come over and start chatting and dancing with the girls and if they get particularly clingy then the girls come over to me and make it clear we are a group. I can then instigate a conversation with the guy and let him know the situation.

Interestingly about a third of guys say thanks for telling me but it's not for me and clear off sharpish. About a third are amazed, say it's not for them but still want to dance and buy the girls drinks, get there pics taken with them etc. The remaining third are are fine with it and are up for fun. I was amazed how many young guys are cool with it.
We have only ever had a couple of bad reactions from guys who kicked off at being told and I put that down to their own insecurities.

[spankrod]

I'm not a fan of violence against anybody, really, but it always comes down to what that ol' dapper Nietzsche wrote - something along the lines of, "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

Interpret that how you wish (and in no way am I calling transsexuals "monsters"), but I like to think that among everything else, maybe he was simply talking about the nature of chaos. There are seven billion people inhabiting this planet, retroboy. And every single one is different. Now laws state that it's illegal (and, of course, immoral) to maim and/or kill a person because one feels "tricked", but there are simply some people who share this planet with us, whose thought-process takes into account neither law, morals, ethics or even logic. People whose proverbial engines run purely on the nature of the self, and how actions and reactions apply to them. That's simply the nature of chaos.

If it's your wish to continue "gazing into the abyss" and testing your luck when encountering such individuals that you have not told of your secret, then know that in no way am I judging you for it. Just remember that the abyss also gazes back.

[IluvemHung]

You can keep playing around if you want... just keep on gambling I guess the pay off is worth it!

[natina]

I kill them!

Oh and recording people who anonymously dare transsexuals is Wire Tapping a crime that Eva a transsexual and a few others learned about the hard way.

[HungAndy]

Look I'm a guy and I like chicks. If I like a chick I shouldn't care if she has pussy, dick, or both. Some guys need to step up and be men - if someone going to start shit with you for dating a transsexual you should knock him out and stand up for your girl.

Trish that sounds scary. I know girls who have had things like that happen too (trans girls). It doesn't make a difference when you tell them - some guys are assholes and they get angry that they are attracted to trans girls. They should be teaching in schools that trans is normal as gay or straight. One day it could be safe to be a trans girl.

[Billy Blueballs]

I had a friend in college who was infertile due to developmental disorder. She was very pretty, sexually active and, as many girls her age, was looking for Mr. Right. Did she immediately tell every man she went out on a date with about her issue? Of course not. Is there any point if it becomes clear the relationship won’t make it past two or three dates? The question for her was, how serious could she allow the relationship to go before she informed the man of her condition?

I always felt a special empathy for her because my situation was not dissimilar to hers. Suppose a man is interested in you. He strikes up a conversation. You find you have similar interests. You can easily rift and opine on each others stories. You find you are attracted to each. So after an hour or so the man says, “Would you like to have diner this evening?” How do you respond? “Sure but you should know I’m transgender,”? This was at a time in my life when passing was everything. I didn’t (and still don’t) want to reveal to every stranger my more intimate secrets; and although we got along and liked each other for the last hour this man is still a stranger - at this stage could I trust him to keep the things I tell him about myself to himself? Of course not.

Of course I have a dick and my friend has a vagina. She could probably have married a guy without him knowing about her condition. That (imo) would’ve been unethical. (She didn’t btw). A transgender woman with vaginoplasty could perhaps do the same - again unethical. There’s a point when you need to tell, but when?
For me the question wasn’t about marriage or children. It was just about sex. It would be pretty rude of me spring my boner on a unsuspecting guy two minutes before we about to tumble into the sack. The question is still, “How serious do I let the relationship get before I tell him?” The answer is probably before we have sex, but how do I know when that’s going to happen - nobody sets a date for that. So sometimes accidents happen. Rarely for me, but were times when it was just to late and the moment arrived. Once the guy was very polite, made his excuses, apologized and left. Once the guy screamed at me, and punched me the stomach.

There was another time when I got cut. I told this story in a thread on HA ages ago. I was out with some girlfriends one evening we decided to go a bar - there was only one and it was a dive. We all got a bit tipsy and some guys came over to our table to chat us up. There was a juke box and they wanted to dance. I saw no harm in that. However, my partner turned out to be an octopus. I kept pulling his hands off me. “This is definitely going the last dance,” I thought when suddenly I felt his hand grab me where only reality-tv-hosts get to grab. At first we were both in shock. Then he started shouting to the whole joint that I was a man. Before I knew it he had knife in his hand and arm had been opened up (required stitches but nothing serious). The bouncer and the bartender intervened and my friends got me out of there. So are you obligated to tell someone you're transgender before accepting a dance? Of course not.

People have got to learn to be civil even as we all have to be wary that some people are just unreasonable, ignorant jerks.

The targets of violence are not responsible for the violence done to them. It is not our duty to deflect it by adding even more tedium to our lives. “Is my dress too provocative?” “Should I tell I’m transgender before he buys me that coffee?” Those of us who claim we live in a civilized society have a duty to support civilized norms. We can start by blaming the perpetrators of violence and not the people they violate.

That's an all too common and awful story. The first TS (actually intersex) person I ever met had been cut from the stomach up (and had the scar to prove it). I do suspect that most of these guys that are "shocked" know exactly what is going on, but the cultural shame is what makes them snap. There is of course a recent acceptance of "passable" transgenders (a superficial bias if you will) and it seems that millennials might be able to enjoy an acceptance that some of us will never know.

[natina]

Religious beliefs make them snap, cultural norms,disgust, violation of trust and so much more..

[UserLunatic]

Yes it's a duty to tell. The perfect example was given before: it's the equivalent of a person saying "I do not have to tell you i am married before dating you."

[natina]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdeJWS5_Upk

[natina]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plTvB1-HSx8

[trish]

To UserLunatic: It’s just a date. Duty hardly applies. I know some guys like to think every date is a prelude to romance and/or sex, but it just isn’t so. You make dates with friends and people you think you may like have as friends. Neither you nor I are obligated to reveal our martial status just to make or accept a date - perhaps if and when we sense the relationship may become romantic - but it would be presumptuous of me to suppose such a thing before you even asked me out.

I don’t need to know if you’re a virgin nor do I need to know your dick size, or whether you’ve got a STD: not until it looks like our interest in each other is becoming sexual - then I’ll want to know - and that's when I'll tell you I'm trans.

To spankrod: Nietzsche, was speaking about the monsters in your (his) own psyche, not the ones you may encounter by chance if your behavior falls short of prudent. (I'm not sure Nietzsche would always advise prudence - in the modern sense of the word.)

Once again: The targets of violence are not responsible for the violence done to them. It is not our duty to deflect it by adding even more tedium to our lives. “Is my dress too provocative?” “Should I tell I’m transgender before he buys me that coffee?” Those of us who claim we live in a civilized society have a duty to support civilized norms. We can start by blaming the perpetrators of violence and not the people they violate.

[Gillian]

Those of us who claim we live in a civilized society have a duty to support civilized norms. We can start by blaming the perpetrators of violence and not the people they violate.

Hear, hear ... :cheers:

[fred41]

When you try to hide the fact you are married you are, first and foremost, violating the trust of the person you are married to. Everything else is secondary. There is usually no harm to the person who admits to being married upfront other than the possibility of the date ending. Not the same risk level as a passable transgender person disclosing her status up front.

The STD example Trish gave is a much better comparison. If a lady with a persistent case of genital herpes were to go on a date she would, of course, be obligated to bring up her status before sex...but only then. The risk to her of disclosing this information simply to share a coffee or a meal is way too high. As has been stated, way too many people confuse hookups with a simple date.

A person that stabs someone in the face 119 times or smashes a girls head into the sidewalk until it's pulp, simply because of a (not always) late reveal, is an animal that has no control of his impulses and will probably commit other acts of assault in a lifetime.

I kind of understand why a person would suggest that a lady disclose her TS status for her own protection, if that is really the worry...But the tone in some posts suggest that acts of violence other than for physical defense are still justifiable. They are not. Also people think they have an absolute right to know everything about an individual upfront...they don't. If you've lived on this planet long enough, trust me, you will eventually have something you don't want to reveal upfront simply because you agree to meeting someone at a Starbucks...unless that is your choice. Absolute sincerity about everything you do can become refreshing in life, but to a younger person - with all of life's insecurities, it can also be devastating.

[retroboy]

http://www.tmz.com/2017/07/30/charlamagne-tha-god-protested-by-transgender-community-breakfast-club/?adid=hero3?adid=hero3?adid=hero3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lItBaZ3jc_E&t=747s

[retroboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mddNgZGVTLs

[SanDiegoPervySage]

They should be held accountable because they, mainly CTG, was instigating(that's what he does) and trying to get that reaction out of him. It's not like it was Lil Duval went on a long unanswered rant. Not saying something should or shouldn't happen, but they do need to own it.

[natina]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdeJWS5_Upk

No comment on this as of yet?

[alpha2117]

I think it's fairly simple - yes.

A recent survey said 20% of people have broken up with someone about their political views. So if you are getting that sort of number about something not directly related to the relationship then something as fundamental as gender and gender identity has the potential for a much greater effect.

Sure there are a lot of arguments about how a trans woman wants to just be treated as a woman and how they don't need to tell a guy till it gets serious but the arguments for telling someone up front are just so much stronger

1 - For some guys it's a deal breaker no matter what - so why should a girl date someone if it's going to end badly. If she develops feelings for someone who then outight rejects her because of her gender identity then that's adding another level of pain to something that already can be painful (a break-up)

2- The potential for violence - sadly some guys will act in a physically aggressive manner if they think they have been tricked. It's stupid but mankind as a species does a lot of stupid things.

3 - People don't like to feel deceived. So if a girl dates someone and after a period of time reveals her background the guy could feel deceived and even if it was a good relationship that perception could then sour it. A potentially successful relationship could end purely because the trust needed to maintain it is gone.

4 - Everyone tries to put their best face out there when dating and hides some of their flaws but not disclosing such a fundamental element of you is rarely going to improve the chances of dating success. If a girl is open then she's sent a few clear messages to the guy and she's going to get some clear messages back - she's sent the message that's she's comfortable with who she is and likes him enough to tell him the truth and if he is still interested in her then he's sent a message that he's comfortable with who she is and that he likes her enough to accept something others might not. The guy still might turn out to be a jerk or the relationship might fail anyway (as most do) but at least the girl has a reasonable amount of certainty that the person she's going to date is at least willing to accept her for who she is now rather than who she was at birth. There's no stress or pressure of trying to work out when to let someone know if it's already out there.

[sweetcream]

very well written alpha, up front about it , and if the guys a dousche,than its done and over with

[trish]

1 - For some guys it's a deal breaker no matter what - so why should a girl date someone if it's going to end badly. If she develops feelings for someone who then outight rejects her because of her gender identity then that's adding another level of pain to something that already can be painful (a break-up)If by date you mean to explore a relationship with an end toward romance or sex, then we probably agree that it's probably best for everyone to reveal their cards before things progress to far. Generally however, making a date to meet someone for a coffee or to see a movie or to take in a game isn't a prelude to sex or romance. There are many other reasons why people might enjoy each others company. It seems rather bizarre to me to decline an invitation to spend a little time with someone on the grounds it might lead to a romance and they don't know yet that I'm trans.

2- The potential for violence - sadly some guys will act in a physically aggressive manner if they think they have been tricked. It's stupid but mankind as a species does a lot of stupid things.
It's always wise to be prudent, but it's not an obligation or a duty to be prudent. The obligation we have to each other is to refrain from violence. It's not my fault, if a guy blows up at me, hits me, cuts me or kills me. It's his fault. “Those of us who claim we live in a civilized society have a duty to support civilized norms. We can start by blaming the perpetrators of violence and not the people they violate.”

3 - People don't like to feel deceived. So if a girl dates someone and after a period of time reveals her background the guy could feel deceived and even if it was a good relationship that perception could then sour it. A potentially successful relationship could end purely because the trust needed to maintain it is gone.
I think the premise of this scenario is the two “daters” have been romantically involved for some time. In that case, I would agree the time is probably ripe for the two of them to reveal to each other a little bit about their sexual pasts, their hangups, their expectations and yes to reveal whether or not one or the other is trans. However, if the two have been involved for a “period of time” (as you say) and if they haven’t already had sex, then I would think the direction of this relationship is already in question. Perhaps he’s terminally shy, or only interested in her mind :)

4 -
We’re back to the issue of prudence again, which I already addressed. It’s prudent to be prudent, but prudence isn’t a duty nor an obligation. Someone is not blameworthy, not even a little bit, if they were less than prudent. I understand that you’re only advising prudence, but so many people in this society twist the language of caution and take it as an invitation to deride and cast blame; e.g. “She’s was asking for it.”

We girls know all about caution. We don’t need more men telling us to be careful. We’d rather instead that you deride the violence against us than advise more caution.

Consider 5- You make a date to play pool with a friend. Later you had some drinks. The next week you called him ‘cause you had two tickets to a Reds game and you’re both fans. A few days later, by coincidence, you saw him on the links and arranged to have lunch at the clubhouse afterward. That’s when you decide to make the pool game a weekly thing - Wednesdays at 7:00PM. It’s a regular date. Should your friend tell you that he’s a FTM trans? Of course not. Not unless you both had the sense that sex was not to far down the road, or that you were becoming romantically involved with each other. Would it make any difference in this story if I made your friend a MTF trans? It shouldn’t.

I have lots of friends I do things with, men and women. Sometimes one-on-one. Somethings in groups. Some of them know I’m trans and some of them don’t. If we’re friends long enough you’ll probably find out and we’ll laugh about how surprised (or not surprised) you are. But the point is this: there are things you can do with other people (even on a one-to-one basis) besides pitch woo. Of all the friends I meet socially and do things with (go to concerts, games, and gallery openings with) only one is my lover. The rest don’t need to know anything about my sexuality. Usually a new friend will find out I have a lover before they find out I’m trans: but not because it’s my duty to tell them that I have a lover or anything else, but because that’s just the sort of thing that comes up in most casual conversations. Dates are not exclusively for lovers or potential lovers. Expand your horizons. Make time for a multitude of people.

[dakota87]

You shouldn't have to...but the real world is what it is.

[simonisthebest]

didnt dating is about honesty & trust ? what the hell u want to hide the fact u a trans to some guy who may think u a GG, this is dangerous

at this point all trans should just go on dating site where we already know they are trans

[MrFanti]

dating is about honesty & trust ?

And there you go!

[trish]

You insist we reveal our deepest intimacies to a person we're just getting to know, because dating is about honesty and trust and at the same time you tell us we need to be wary of our date because we can't trust his reaction to be benign.

[fred41]

didnt dating is about honesty & trust ?


And there you go!

Yup, you're absolutely right.
So I suppose you guys and everyone on here, will immediately tell a hot GG you are on a first date with, that you have a sexual proclivity towards transsexuals.
...or worse - have fucked a few...
...or worse - have either also been occasionally fucked by them or at a minimum...sucked a few cocks.
because I think a girl might definitely want to know that.
because isn't dating about honesty?

...hell, how many people that want transgender folks to fess up immediately still haven't told anyone they know, or are fucking, about their secret?

[SXFX]

if you like dating TS women you are a "chaser" and automatically not in the running....
but if you say you don't like to date TS women you are not wanted and she wants you to only desire her for her mind.....


this is the level of crazy GG women have and i see how it's bleeding over to TS dating.

[MrFanti]

You insist we reveal our deepest intimacies to a person we're just getting to know, because dating is about honesty and trust and at the same time you tell us we need to be wary of our date because we can't trust his reaction to be benign.

It's not too uncommon when chatting/dating online for a person to reveal their race for acceptability prior going deeper in the relationship....

[retroboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMvsH4BQivw

[alpha2117]

Trish - I understand your points.

My take on the word "dating" is that it's meant for romantic purposes. Hanging out with friends is different, if you are just friends then gender is irrelevant. My advice/opinion is purely based on romantic dating. In the case of romantic dating not disclosing huge potentially deal breaking revelations fairly early in the relationship is a recipe for disaster. It's no doubt difficult for transgender people anyway - dating is hard enough for anyone without any extra "complications" (it's hard to find the right word - I don't want to make it seem like transgender is a negative - it just complicates things for some people if you know what I mean).

[Ben in LA]

Do any of the guys on this forum disclose to potential GG partners of your interest in TS girls? Do you admit you've actually fucked (and have been fucked) by them?

[Stavros]

One of the most popular tv shows here in the UK is called First Dates. It is based on a restaurant close by St Paul's Cathedral in London and while about half of the participants are heterosexual c20-30 the other half are either gay or 50+. I don't watch it much so I don't know if they have ever had a transgendered person on it, and whether or not that person was looking for a male, female or another transgendered partner, but it might help with some of the posters to this thread to see what can actually happen on that First Date (bearing in mind it is being filmed, although most of the participants don't seem to be aware of the cameras). What is interesting is that first moment when the first person walks through the door and you literally cannot tell if they are gay or straight.

[tacocorpv2]

Do any of the guys on this forum disclose to potential GG partners of your interest in TS girls? Do you admit you've actually fucked (and have been fucked) by them?

Well not me, when I'm dating someone I am only interested in her at that point and I am quite certain she would not like to hear about my past sexual activities. :D

[retroboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L5i9PVH5II

[retroboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29WTOyUnugE

[retroboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDYviFMuLyA

[MrFanti]

Do any of the guys on this forum disclose to potential GG partners of your interest in TS girls?

Yes - In fact I have one that we have discussed transgender dating/sex/working/ etc in detail...

[SanDiegoPervySage]

Do any of the guys on this forum disclose to potential GG partners of your interest in TS girls? Do you admit you've actually fucked (and have been fucked) by them?

If it comes up, yeah. They'll know that I'm only a top as well.

[MrFanti]

They'll know that I'm only a top as well.

Ditto on that - I also...

[Jericho]

Well no, you don't...But it would save a lot of messing around! :shrug

[stimpy17]

So any chance of a relationship is based on a half truth at best. What would go wrong with that?

[trish]

No I don't have to tell you... In most States I'm not obligated to tell, 'cause I'm legally protected by concealed carry.

[luvzbig1s]

If you plan to have sexual relations with the other person then yes or would you consider it perfectly fine to not finding out that the person you just had sex with was married or in fact had a STD affter the fact and I would think before kissing them then yes I would say you should. If there is no plans to have a deeper relationship other than going out on a date then it doesn't matter

[retroboy]

Somethings I feel transgenders don't help themselves with people like Zinna Jones thats why I think homophobes and transphobes call them Gay Mafia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNFzrqCnbGM

[Dudedude12345]

Yeah how smart, escalate a situation you already started. Thats the same stupidity that got a user on this forum in the hospital

[frosty51]

Do any of the guys on this forum disclose to potential GG partners of your interest in TS girls? Do you admit you've actually fucked (and have been fucked) by them?

I do. And it has resulted in a few women losing interest. I'm okay with that.

[gaysian71]

You should probably disclose that you are trans before getting intimate. You never know. A girl could find a man to date and end up dead. And his defense would be. "She was a trap. I didn't know . After I pulled her panties down and sucked her cock till she came down my throat, I realized she was trans so I killed her."

[ghbryans]

Selling yourself as something you're not is lying, plain and simple. Be it for employment, sex, or love. You can gray area it all you want trying to make it somehow "okay", but you'll still be a liar with all that entails.

[Nick Danger]

My opinion: First of all, people lie all the time, about many, many things, in the conversations leading up to dating. I've known guys who would tell girls practically anything to get into their pants. There's even an old hit song by the Bellamy Brothers called I'd Lie To You For Your Love. The chorus goes, "I'm a doctor, I'm a lawyer, I'm a movie star, I'm an astronaut and I own this bar; And I'd lie to you for your love..."

There are a couple different possible motives for this kind of lying. The most likely one is that the guy has no intention of pursuing a relationship once he achieves his goal of getting her into the sack. But it could also be that he hopes once she gets to know him, she won't care about those lies anymore, and he knows he'll never get that far by telling the truth.

So people lie, men and women both, and then there may be consequences when/if the lie is discovered. Lying about being trans is no different. The moment she whips out her dick might be a bit more dramatic than the moment some guy admits he's actually just a construction worker and can't afford that expensive piece of jewelry, but the principle is the same.

They say all's fair in love and war.

[trish]

It’s not lying. Yes, it’d be lying to say that you’re not transgender, if in fact you are. But it’s not lying to pass as a women when indeed you are.

It’s perhaps wise, for the sake of one’s own safety, to be as completely truthful as possible about one’s gender, and as soon a possible. But the trick is in figuring out what ‘possible’ means in this context. Of course you can alway blurt out - first thing- your entire gender history to everyone you meet, but social propriety doesn’t really allow this as an appropriate possibility. Each girl has to assess the situation she’s in and determine when the time is right. If she’s wrong about the guy she’s with it’s not her fault, if he knifes her, beats her up, or kills her. It’s his fault, and the fault of that segment society that keeps backing him up in threads like this one.

Odd that this mostly goes one way. How many trans-men are murdered by disappointed women?

[MrFanti]

What if the man is looking to have a long term relationship with biological children?

[trish]

I think he'll know in time, before his search too long waylaid. (I'm sure you're not suggesting that would be a excuse to beat, knife or murder. Such a man shouldn't have children anyway.) But I agree. I don't think people should be strung along under any pretense. But there's no point in revealing everything there is to know about oneself before there's even a chance that it may become relevant.

[Dudedude12345]

And you think states will protect you?
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?96355-US-marine-murders-transwoman&highlight=Marine+killed
If they found out the hard way, you get hurt or wose and they legally get away with it because of your fetish

[trish]

Another example of blame the victim and not the perpetrator. A girl's desire for a bit of privacy is not a fetish. Once again: I don't think people should be strung along under any pretense. But there's no point in revealing everything there is to know about oneself before there's even a chance that it may become relevant. If I get murdered, it won't be because of my fetish but rather because of some man's sexual hang-up.

[dirtrail]

I honestly wouldn’t care if the girl I wanted to date was a ggirl or trans girl or if she told me. I almost prefer she didn’t tell me up front because it would be a pleasant surprise 😀

[Instrumental]

It’s not lying. Yes, it’d be lying to say that you’re not transgender, if in fact you are. But it’s not lying to pass as a women when indeed you are.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lying_by_omission