Donald Trump Presidency-Day One [Archive] - Page 3 - HungAngels

Stavros

05-29-2018, 05:13 PM

@Stavros Thanks so much for your post! I agree with you, about the thing being a continuation of the original Civil War. One thing i see is that the movement, is fueled by negativity. I actually do not mind honoring Confederate war heroes. It's the negativity that grows, into negative consequences. The left is using similar tactic, but it does not run that deep, in my book. But speaking of negativity, it blew my mind, reading about a poll taken, that found that 55% of white americans, feel they are oppressed! And it does not seem like it is the super rich, and corporate elite, as it is minorities, and the government. Here we are having been previously told, we are the richest, and most powerful nation in the world, (american exceptionalism), to now being oppressed?

I think the point about the legacy of the Civil War is that if there are a proportion of Americans who no longer feel their country 'belongs to them' then Steve Bannon is attempting to re-define American Nationalism to meet their criteria that being American means being White, Christian and Heterosexual, with the as yet unstated claim that if they cannot rescue their country from the effects of Globalization, then they will repudiate the authority of the Federal government and create their own Republic based on their values.

Can Anyone be an American? That is the question.

I am not really sure how far Bannon thinks this can go, as he makes claims that are based on a distortion of historical fact, he is even in a weak position himself as a Roman Catholic, which historically was looked upon with suspicion in the US and has little pedigree if you want to take Jamestown and the Mayflower as nodal moments in the development of an American identity.

The demography of the USA is changing, and appears to cast that 'old' America into the shadows as the 'new' America which is ethnically and religiously diverse asserts itself, and grows. The irony for a lot of people is that America has always been at its best when it embraces diversity, not at its weakest, while those who have benefited most from American's economic history, whether it was isolationist or globalist, continue to share the largest proportion of wealth, and indeed, owe a good deal of their security to the very same 'liberal' President they did so much to smear, and whose eclipse has been greeted with almost religious ecstasy. Because they never could accept the fact that a Black man walked into the White House as President, and yes, it is as crude as that.

KelliBlueEyes

05-29-2018, 06:19 PM

Yeah, it doesn't even matter much that we're on the same page, or that Trump is a liar, or even the truth, it comes down to what Mueller can find out and prove. Even if Sessions and Rosenstein and Mueller are fired, they've basically already said they'd all be on Rachel Maddow that evening. The Truth is just a commodity these days, if you can't make any money off it, many consider it worthless.

Truth has no value, UNLESS you tell a lie. Then the truth becomes a secret, and secrets have value.

buttslinger

05-29-2018, 10:47 PM

Truth has no value, UNLESS you tell a lie. Then the truth becomes a secret, and secrets have value.
Whew, that sounds scary when you say it......

trish

05-29-2018, 10:51 PM

Truth has value because it corresponds to the way things are in the world. Knowing the truth about science, medicine etc. (regardless of whether it's known to others or not) allows you effectively navigate the world, avoid some of its dangers and enhance some of its pleasures. Truth has value in and of itself. The trick is establishing you've got hold of the real thing rather than falling for a cheap bauble. Donald's babble is generally pure bauble. Has he ever not reneged on a deal?

buttslinger

05-29-2018, 11:42 PM

Stavros

05-30-2018, 03:29 AM

Truth has no value, UNLESS you tell a lie. Then the truth becomes a secret, and secrets have value.

A post that has me thinking. Thus:

Roseanne Barr posts tweets that insult black people and Jews...and then apologises when there is a shower of public anger in response....and has now quit Twitter. But which of her statements is true and which is a lie?

The Tweet that claimed George Soros was a nazi who turned in his fellow Jews 2 be murdered in German concentration camps & stole their wealth or
I apologize to Valerie Jarrett and to all Americans. I am truly sorry for making a bad joke about her politics and her looks. I should have known better. Forgive me – my joke was in bad taste.

When is a joke not a statement or a statement not a joke? Is Twitter a form of entertainment, like her stand-up routine, or Roseanne saying what she thinks?

A lie has no value, UNTIL you tell truth. Then the lie becomes a secret, and secrets have value -and the secret or not so secret admirers of someone who shares her 'truth'?

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/may/29/how-the-right-is-defending-roseanne-barrs-racist-tweets

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/may/29/roseanne-barr-tweet-valerie-jarrett-ape

broncofan

05-30-2018, 06:41 AM

Stavros

05-30-2018, 11:32 AM

It's hard to come to terms with the fact that there are some people on the right trying to justify this. You cannot get much more openly racist than Roseanne Barr and it has been obvious for some time. She said essentially the same thing about Susan Rice in 2013...it is pathetic that anyone could pretend there's some sort of parallel between her using "ape" as a dehumanizing racist slur and someone calling Trump an orangutan. Orangutan has no history as a racial slur for descendants of European immigrants, but I'm sure they know that.

She is also a pizzagater, a Soros conspiracy theorist, and someone who decent people shouldn't associate with. ABC should be doing some soul-searching right now. They obviously don't deserve credit for pulling the plug on her show when her depravity has been on display for a while and they never should have put it on the air in the first place.

The concept of a show featuring a family whose members are bitterly split on political issues rings true for a lot of people. It would be nice to be able to put aside political differences to find common ground and laugh together. Obviously, we can't bond with many Trump supporters, who are open racists and doing less and less to hide it.

All good points.

I appreciate KelliBlueEyes contrast between truth and lies as a dialectical relationship, although I don't think the truth becomes a secret when it is contrasted with lies, when lies are locked into a conspiracy that insists the lie is the truth, whereupon the 'secret' is that you were lied to all along, reversing the dialectic.

As for Roseanne Barr, I find it frankly pathetic that she now says it was the pills what did it. Does a sleeping pill really make a person relate Valerie Jarrett to Planet of the Apes rather than, say, The Sound of Music, Mary Poppins or Star Wars? Why, when referring to George Soros is the automatic thought not about money, his hair-style, his clothes, or his Open Society programme, but about Jews and Nazis?

broncofan

05-30-2018, 05:56 PM

As for Roseanne Barr, I find it frankly pathetic that she now says it was the pills what did it. Does a sleeping pill really make a person relate Valerie Jarrett to Planet of the Apes rather than, say, The Sound of Music, Mary Poppins or Star Wars? Why, when referring to George Soros is the automatic thought not about money, his hair-style, his clothes, or his Open Society programme, but about Jews and Nazis?
I have quite a bit of experience with the sleeping pill she talked about and stopped taking it for the simple reason that I would not fall asleep, would call people and have long conversations that I didn't remember. The thing is, when I asked what we talked about, they assured me they didn't know anything was amiss and that at most I was more talkative, but maybe the associations were a bit looser. It doesn't do more than disinhibit you and if it did more it would likely make you incoherent and not a belligerent racist.

The George Soros one is a bit of a mystery but if I dig into it I can see why it's important for them to portray him as a traitor to Jews. Of course criticizing Soros as a politically active billionaire is acceptable and if it were on par with say the criticism of the Koch brothers the Republicans would never find themselves in trouble. But they want to accuse him of having mystical powers, of paying protesters without leaving a trace and effecting all sorts of global outcomes that he has no causal relationship to. It's only a matter of time before people say, this is your Emmanuel Goldstein, that you use both as a form of catharsis and a scapegoat. So what do they do? They say he's the real hater of Jews and was a Nazi collaborator. Roseanne, who is Jewish, is probably not even aware that this is the underlying motivation, having allied herself with open haters and parroting their poison. The poison she directs at other groups (Arabs and African-Americans) she does seem very well aware of and is her own concoction.

I am curious to what extent the hard right, the people that Roseanne has been channeling and retweeting for several years, are aware of the fact that they're lying. To what extent are they partially aware and have just decided that they can be dishonest and disgusting if they are surrounded by enough like-minded people.

broncofan

05-30-2018, 06:15 PM

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1001848460881035265

This is Donald's response. This is someone who has gone his entire life without people expecting him to behave decently and who has never felt the compunction to on his own. I know it's overused, but he's a sociopath. Most people have something internal that would prevent them from responding this way.

Ben in LA

05-30-2018, 10:00 PM

Stavros

05-30-2018, 10:57 PM

The George Soros one is a bit of a mystery...
They say he's the real hater of Jews and was a Nazi collaborator.

There is no mystery, it is a basic loathing of the Jew. George Soros was 13 years old at the time. Need I say anything more?

Or, maybe he is superhuman, the X-Man of finance, but I guess in fact he is just a guy who is good with money, with the additional fact that what he does with it is legal. There is another man I can think of who brags about his achievements with money, but is not so much an X-Man mutant as a fraud, as his record with money is: very good at pocketing yours, and hiding mine. Just as one billionaire funds the Open Society Programme that promotes democracy, human rights, education and holding the powerful to account, the other wakes up at six in the morning and by 10 has insulted, abused and threatened as many Americans as he can find, for the simple reason they don't agree with him.

filghy2

05-31-2018, 03:54 AM

The George Soros one is a bit of a mystery but if I dig into it I can see why it's important for them to portray him as a traitor to Jews.

The anti-Soros thing seems to have become a popular meme on the right. Anti-Soros rhetoric featured prominently in the recent Hungarian election, where the ruling party argued that Soros was behind a conspiracy to flood the country with muslim immigrants. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-09/viktor-orban-demonises-migration-in-election-campaign/9632958

All of this has strong echoes of the international Jewish financial conspiracy, which has long been a popular theme of the far right, though I've never been able to understand how they believed that is was both an international finance conspiracy and a Bolshevik conspiracy. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/International_Jewish_conspiracy

Of course, people like Roseanne would have no problem with Soros if he used his money to back political causes directed at enriching himself further, like the Koch brothers and the Mercers.

yodajazz

05-31-2018, 08:36 AM

The anti-Soros thing seems to have become a popular meme on the right. Anti-Soros rhetoric featured prominently in the recent Hungarian election, where the ruling party argued that Soros was behind a conspiracy to flood the country with muslim immigrants. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-09/viktor-orban-demonises-migration-in-election-campaign/9632958

All of this has strong echoes of the international Jewish financial conspiracy, which has long been a popular theme of the far right, though I've never been able to understand how they believed that is was both an international finance conspiracy and a Bolshevik conspiracy. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/International_Jewish_conspiracy

Of course, people like Roseanne would have no problem with Soros if he used his money to back political causes directed at enriching himself further, like the Koch brothers and the Mercers.

As for George Soros, certain elements of the right, get their power from a focus of negative energy, of hate, and fear. I like to say, it's from the Hitler playbook. Between Soros, and Hillary and Bill, they are literally demonized. They a given superpowers, with the supposed ability to control others. The supreme irony, is that people who believe this, are the ones who are being controlled. They give their hearts and minds to the leader, and secret leaders, (money suppliers) who say they are in charge of fighting those 'demons'. There are 'positive' manipulation tools also. The main one is the use of 'nationalism'. That makes the people feel powerful, when they are in fact giving up their power, to the supreme leader. American white nationalism, is a resurgent power these days. I noted in the campaign, when I saw Trump's "make America great again", the images, were from a time, when the KKK was riding high, and directly feared by many. Notice how many of Trump's Tweets, that are the subject of broadcasts, are negative.

As I reflect, Hitler did not invent this technique of control. It could literally be called, "the oldest trick in the book".

Stavros

05-31-2018, 02:56 PM

One of the things I got wrong about the US election, is the belief that a negative, attacking tone turns off voters, who want to hear positive messages that tell them their future will be better than their past. What I think happened, and is crucial, is that the Republicans succeeded in transferring the problems of capitalism from a collective of decision makers in industry, finance and politics, to a personal level where they tapped into a 'politics of resentment' which personalizes political issues and licences one person to blame another for their negative position, and by extension to demonize their cohort.

Thus the book on rural Wisconsin by Katherine J. Crame The Politics of Resentment attempts to answer the question, why did Wisconsin turn Republican? She claims to find a deep well of resentment in 'left behind' rural workers who claim to see other people getting the benefits of living in the USA, and she offers insights into her research and their views in this interview -
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-s-victory-and-the-politics-of-resentment/

However, I assume the book has not taken into account the tariff issue that has emerged in the last year, because Wisconsin farmers who may have tipped the vote in 2016, rely heavily on the export of Soybeans to China, the very sector threatened by tariffs, meaning the man they voted to improve their lives could, if the tariffs are imposed, destroy them, not that he cares about that. Some insight into Soybean and Wisconsin can be found in these two links-
https://badgerherald.com/opinion/2018/04/10/chinas-retaliation-towards-trumps-steel-tariffs-will-destroy-wisconsin-agriculture-industry/
http://wisoybean.org/services/soybean-facts/

This leaves the question, why is resentment so strong and an important component in a political discourse that now includes an almost official 'incivility' with racist and hateful language that used to be relegated to the sidewalk and obscure web sites, now both mainstream and a regular feature of the President's daily tweets?

This I think is an interesting take on it, and is worth a read. You get a flavour of the arguments from its opening-

The US has become a country motivated less by anger, which can be used to address the underlying social, political and economic causes of social discontent, than by a galloping culture of individualized resentment, which personalizes problems and tends to seek vengeance on those individuals and groups viewed as a threat to American society.
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/38351-the-authoritarian-politics-of-resentment-in-trump-s-america

The problem with resentment is that it replaces critical thinking with emotion, and is more likely to find its expression in violence rather than dialogue.

yodajazz

05-31-2018, 07:05 PM

One thing, that promotes this anger is conservative talk radio. In driving, the major entertainment, is listening the radio, if you don't not have your own music media. Their main thrust, in my book, is to feed resentment. Rush Limbaugh, is the most widely known, however that several others, such as Glenn Beck, etc. I happened to have listened to a smaller market one named Bill Cunningham, only because he comes on after the games of our major sport team. So the radio is turn on, riding with my friend, even turned low, as we are talking, and I hear this man, practically screaming in anger. I never turned it up to hear what he was actually saying, so what struck me was the emotional level he was on. But the times, I have actually listened to him, I was the the one, who wanted to scream in anger. lol! I have heard him say, "democrats are trying to destroy America", and "Black are not patriotic..." . And say I decide to turn to another station, I might run into Rush Limbaugh, who is on at the same time! Cunningham also moonlights as a special commentator on television's Fox News. Doing research on Cunningham, it was stated he makes around 250k, a year for his radio work. Rush Limbaugh signed an 8 year deal, in 2008, for 400 million. In the book I'm reading, "Dark Money" a conservative political action group once paid, Glenn Beck 1 million dollars, to blend their message, with his opinion talk. It was not presented as advertising. It was blended into his message. So this is an example, of big money interests, directly shaping public dialogue. An example of this, is framing industrial government pollution standards, as "job killing regulations". Regulations in fact create jobs, because someone inside the plant has to monitor, what their pollution output is, etc. But it does take away from the owners/corporate heads, profit margin. So this is why they are pouring huge amounts of money to influence public perceptions.

BostonBad

05-31-2018, 10:30 PM

Soros is an evil man. Look how he smashed the working people of England by making over a billion in a day.

broncofan

06-01-2018, 01:12 AM

Soros is an evil man. Look how he smashed the working people of England by making over a billion in a day.
I assume you're talking about Black Wednesday. First of all, Soros is not primarily criticized by the right wing for a single currency trade in 1992. Speculating with large amounts of capital can destabilize markets and cost people lots of money, but I don't personally believe a large currency bet makes someone an evil person.

Would you take the same position for someone who was shorting a stock index in 2000? Of course, I think there was an uptick rule in the stock market in 2000, so short sellers were not responsible for the dip, but rather grossly mis-valued equities were. There are probably people on this forum who know more about finance than I do, but isn't it possible that his bet was successful because he recognized weakness in the pound rather than that he created it by shorting it?

broncofan

06-01-2018, 01:43 AM

There are probably people on this forum who know more about finance than I do, but isn't it possible that his bet was successful because he recognized weakness in the pound rather than that he created it by shorting it?
I don't think Soros has done anything that qualifies him as evil but I am curious about this strictly as a finance question if anyone knows. To what extent did Soros cause the pound to crash by betting against it and to what extent did he simply predict it would crash and bet against it? Or is it some combination of both, namely that the position he took was based on a prediction but also had an effect.

buttslinger

06-01-2018, 02:13 AM

....I am curious to what extent the hard right, the people that Roseanne has been channeling and retweeting for several years, are aware of the fact that they're lying. To what extent are they partially aware and have just decided that they can be dishonest and disgusting if they are surrounded by enough like-minded people.

The elephant in the room is not even the republican party, they seem to have surrendered to him. The classic Republican Suit has been replaced by the Rush Limbaugh Johnny Bravo suit, Trump fit the suit. It would have to be a comic book character. Trump may get an Academy Award along with his Nobel Prize.
Here's the thing: there's sixty million of them. ....getting rid of Trump will be the easy part. The first page of his income taxes probably is good for ten years.......no, the hard part would be Mike Pence inheriting the worst step child one could ever image: The Trump Army.

Stavros

06-01-2018, 10:46 AM

Soros is an evil man. Look how he smashed the working people of England by making over a billion in a day.

George Soros was doing what capitalists do, in his case buying and selling currency. The opportunity to make a lot of money on a bet was provided to him by the incompetence of the Conservative Govt in its management of the country's financial system. Joining the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) -a precursor to the Euro- in the manner in which it did and at the rate relative to the Deutschmark was the root of the problem, mostly due to the chronic problems of low productivity in the UK economy and the country's interest rate confusion, two issues we still face today. I suppose one could accuse the Germans of sabotage, but they looked at the figures and it was clear that Sterling was weak, Soros listened to what the Germans had to say, and concluded it was only a matter of time before the currency was either devalued by the Treasury or forced out of the ERM, and upped his stake from a billion $ to over $10 billion. And don't forget that on the day interest rates were going up by the hour and the Bank of England under Govt instructions spent £27 billion trying to save a currency that couldn't be saved. I remember it well because I had a loan at the time that was set at 2% over the base rate which meant I ended up paying 17% on the loan, others such as home-owners in the early stage of their mortgage lost their homes as the cost rose beyond their means, and so on.

So don't blame George Soros, if anyone is to blame it is the Conservative Party and its rank, incompetent management of the economy.

There is a detailed analysis of the way in which Soros expertly played the market here-
https://priceonomics.com/the-trade-of-the-century-when-george-soros-broke/

Stavros

06-01-2018, 10:57 AM

One thing, that promotes this anger is conservative talk radio. In driving, the major entertainment, is listening the radio, if you don't not have your own music media. Their main thrust, in my book, is to feed resentment. Rush Limbaugh, is the most widely known, however that several others, such as Glenn Beck, etc. I happened to have listened to a smaller market one named Bill Cunningham, only because he comes on after the games of our major sport team..

I don't know who Cunningham is and only know the other two by their reputations, but I understand the point you are making. At root, though, I think resentment is a more destructive force than anger because one boils up and explodes and then dies down, but resentment gnaws away at the mind and thus can motivate people to plan their resolution, convincing them that what they destroy will leave something better behind or the conditions for improvement. I don't agree with the idea that these people have, that the America they used to know and love has been 'taken away' from them through liberal social policy, immigration, the loss of wars overseas -something they don't like to talk about in fact but which is part of the deeper despondency they feel over a 'declining' or a 'broken' America, but I think it does reflect the mentality of a certain group of White Americans who also cannot reconcile themselves to the fact that they are the architects of what they claim has gone wrong, just as capitalism as practiced in the Reagan era and since has led to the off-shoring of jobs they now complain is a 'trade war' with China they are losing, as if the Chines had held a gun to the USA's head and said: give is your manufacturing jobs or we will shoot!

filghy2

06-02-2018, 07:12 AM

Soros is an evil man. Look how he smashed the working people of England by making over a billion in a day.

That is complete rubbish which reveals your hidden agenda. Soros made his money at the expense of the Bank of England, which was trying to prop up the currency at the government's behest. Being forced out of the ERM was arguably good for the UK economy because it allowed the currency and interest rates to fall at a time when the economy was weak.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

filghy2

06-02-2018, 07:32 AM

I don't think Soros has done anything that qualifies him as evil but I am curious about this strictly as a finance question if anyone knows. To what extent did Soros cause the pound to crash by betting against it and to what extent did he simply predict it would crash and bet against it? Or is it some combination of both, namely that the position he took was based on a prediction but also had an effect.

It is a combination of both. The UK's ERM exit is an example of a 'second generation' currency crisis, where speculators attack a currency because they doubt that a government is willing to do whatever it takes to maintain the peg. In this case, speculation may be self-fulfilling; ie the currency peg could have been maintained if speculators had not attacked. However, the underlying source of vulnerability is that governments have conflicting goals. They want to maintain the currency peg but they also worried about the effects on the economy of doing whatever it takes to hold the peg, which normally involves raising interest rates. The UK economy was still recovering from recession in 1992, so Soros made the correct judgement that the government would blink first.

buttslinger

06-07-2018, 02:01 AM

As crazy as it seems, I don't see any other outcome except for Trump to start firing people, and pardoning people. Trump's going to fire the policemen, and pardon the criminals. When does this joke end?

filghy2

06-11-2018, 07:43 AM

Another bizarre story about Trump's disdain for any kind of legal obligation. There are people in the White House who spend their time taping up his papers because he insists on tearing them up. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164

bluesoul

06-11-2018, 10:01 PM

is larry kudlow drunk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4HCULGOxN8

filghy2

06-12-2018, 03:03 AM

is larry kudlow drunk?

He probably needed a few stiff ones to get up and say in public things he must know are complete bullshit. What is the terrible thing Trudeau is supposed to have done anyway - saying that he will stand up for Canada's interests against Trump's bullying?

It is true that Canada applies very high tariffs to imported dairy products above specified quotas. http://checkyourfact.com/2018/06/11/fact-check-canada-270-percent-tariff-dairy/ Most countries have some sectors that are heavily protected and the US is no exception. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/americas-biggest-tariffs-2010-9?r=US&IR=T#non-specific-dairy-products-20-tariff-on-imports-1

Overall, however, tariffs are similarly low across most countries so claims that trade is rigged against the US are nonsense. According to the WTO average tariff rates are 2.4% for the USA, 3.1% for Canada and 3% for the European Union. https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/statis_maps_e.htm

blackchubby38

06-12-2018, 04:57 AM

is larry kudlow drunk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4HCULGOxN8

I'm guessing it was the prelude to the heart attack he suffered tonight.

bluesoul

06-13-2018, 09:48 PM

according to paul begley, it was actually "illuminati assassins" using "heart attack guns"; then throws in a bunch of "what-about-all-these" suspects into the mix because it could be caused by any number of those things. you just never know these days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmC1Ky0luVM

bluesoul

06-13-2018, 09:49 PM

also: is dennis rodman drunk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAJLJRRJY3E

bluesoul

06-14-2018, 05:09 PM

i wonder why it took the NY AG this long to bring about a lawsuit against trump and family about their b.s. charity org. i know a lot of 'pedes' are going to see this as another attack on GEOTUS from the deep state but c'mon, you honestly can't believe trump is charitable can you? i think that's the one thing we can all agree trump is not

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/nyregion/trump-foundation-lawsuit-attorney-general.html

Stavros

06-15-2018, 01:16 AM

filghy2

06-15-2018, 10:41 AM

It looks like the Trumpnuts' takeover of the Republican Party is about complete, though I guess the positive is that these types are less likely to win close contests in the midterms . https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/13/trump-republicans-sanford-resistance-644721

Even the sensible ones seem to be cracking on the Mueller probe, and obviously the Inspector-General's report on the FBI won't help. Wtf was Peter Strzok thinking?
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/13/trump-republicans-sanford-resistance-644721
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/14/fbi-conduct-trump-mueller-645588

Stavros

06-17-2018, 10:04 AM

As more material emerges it appears that Aaron Banks and Nigel Farage used their Leave.EU campaign organization during the EU referendum to co-ordinate with the Russians and the Republican campaign in the US. The more this material emerges, the less coincidental it appears to be, with the additional link between Farage and Russian stooge Julian Assange. Aaron Banks and spokesman for Leave.EU Andy Wigmore appear to have lied to Parliament, but probably don't care about that as they show contempt for the 'establishment' on the basis that their loyalty is to 'the people' who voted Leave. The problem is not that the Russians were interested in the Referendum, so, I assume were China, Angola and Argentina, but there seems to have been no contact with those three or messages of support such as the one sent to the Russian Ambassador.

It is also the case that even if the Russian 'intervention' did not sway the outcome of the Referendum or the US election, both of which were won on tight margins, that the Russians intervened and had willing accomplices in the UK and the USA is the issue that ought to be making headlines.

Here is an extract from the report and a link to a critical article:
A leader of the Leave.EU campaign suggested sending a “message of support” to the Russian ambassador after the then foreign secretary made a speech that was critical of Russia (https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia), documents seen by the Observer suggest.
The material also appears to show that Andy Wigmore, spokesman for the Leave.EU campaign and the business partner of Arron Banks (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/arron-banks), the biggest funder of Brexit, passed confidential legal documents to high-ranking officials at the Russian embassy and then denied it to parliament.
The documents related to George Cottrell, an aide to Nigel Farage who was with him on the campaign trail for Donald Trump in July 2016. Cottrell was arrested by the FBI and charged with 21 counts of money laundering, bribery and wire fraud (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/07/former-nigel-farage-aide-us-information-plea-deal-court-files-george-cottrell).
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/16/leave-eu-russia-arron-banks-andy-wigmore

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/16/lies-coverup-russia-role-brexit-vote-too-big-to-ignore

yodajazz

06-18-2018, 05:24 PM

Sarah Sanders, the White House press secretary invoked the Bible to defend the Trump administration’s immigration policy of separating mothers from their children.
She was speaking at Thursday’s White House briefing, in response to a question about comments made by the attorney general Jeff Sessions (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/jeff-sessions), where he cited a passage in the Bible to justify the policy.
“I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13 to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained them for the purpose of order,” said Sessions.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/14/sarah-sanders-bible-trump-immigration-border-policy

Because the Bible takes precedence over the Constitution and the law. But a most unusual 'Christian government that separates children from their parents and parks them in the desert in their thousands...

Speaking of religion, and Trump I just discovered the identity of this US guy, name Mark Taylor. He is using religious prophecy, to promote ideas, like 'Trump is being used by God to fulfill his mission. I happened to hear him speak, and I see his mission as justification for fascism, with Trump as the "strongman".

https://www.worldreligionnews.com/entertainment/trumps-prophet-getting-movie (https://www.worldreligionnews.com/entertainment/trumps-prophet-getting-movie)

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/mark-taylor-two-ex-presidents-will-die-and-two-will-face-jail-time-as-divine-retribution-for-criticizing-trump/

buttslinger

06-18-2018, 08:48 PM

I haven't run out of bad things to say about Trump, but I have run out of new ways to say bad things about Trump, it may be that the Republican Party is on it's last legs. Dramatic Nonsense like this usually has a limit, would Republicans warm up to Mike Pence? Will the search for a White Obama sink the Pequod?

filghy2

06-19-2018, 02:26 AM

Word for the day https://www.thefreedictionary.com/trumpery

trump·er·y (trŭm′pə-rē)
n. pl. trump·er·ies
1. Showy but worthless finery; bric-a-brac.
2. Nonsense; rubbish.
3. Deception; trickery; fraud.
[Middle English trompery, deceit, from Middle French tromperie, from tromper, to deceive, from Old French se tromper de (quelqu'un), to deceive, mock (literally, "to play (someone) like a trumpet"), from tromper, to play the trumpet, from trompe, horn, trumpet; see trumpet.]

Stavros

06-22-2018, 10:05 AM

The long-awaited assault on welfare in the US has begun. Conservatives and nationalists have loathed and detested the welfare programmes of the 1960s with as much venom as the extension of the vote to Black people, but just as they have been successful in getting Black Americans off the register, the focus on Welfare appeared too complex to take on. The new Administration has therefore decided to chip away at it in much the same way that with no replacement for Affordable Care, it is tinkering with the details of 'Obamacare' to make it harder for poorer people to obtain health insurance. But the poor must pay again through the piecemeal chipping away of benefits. Maybe some people taken off welfare will get jobs, which is the basic mantra of Charles Murray and people like him, maybe not -but what happens if they remain unemployed without the means to support themselves?

President Trump, spurred on by conservatives who want him to slash safety net programs, unveiled on Thursday a plan to overhaul the federal government that could have a profound effect on millions of poor and working-class Americans.Produced over the last year by Mr. Trump’s budget director, Mick Mulvaney, it would reshuffle social welfare programs in a way that would make them easier to cut, scale back or restructure, according to several administration officials involved in the planning.

Among the most consequential ideas is a proposal to shift the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, a subsistence benefit that provides aid to 42 million poor and working Americans, from the Agriculture Department to a new mega-agency that would have “welfare” in its title — a term Mr. Trump uses as a pejorative catchall for most government benefit programs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/us/politics/trump-government-overhaul-safety-net.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

The President may fail to merge the Education and Labor Departments, but it does show yet again that he has no interest in education, in fact one wonders why he doesn't abolish it altogether.

filghy2

06-23-2018, 05:03 AM

Stavros

06-23-2018, 10:26 AM

The US welfare system is already very scanty compared to other developed countries. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37159686 This seems to be another Republican ideological obsession regardless of the evidence, just like cutting taxes on the rich.

While you may be right in relative terms, in the US it has become a significant issue because it often becomes the litmus test for real Conservatives who believe in free markets shaped by individuals making their own decisions. What is called the 'nanny state' in Britain in the US they claim has become a 'welfare dependency culture' where single parents, usually women, exist on handouts without ever having the need to get 'a proper job', where the state compensating for lack of income perpetuates the relationship to create a dependency that must be broken, a) to relieve tax-payers of the burden, and b) to get people back into work. The basic mantra is simple: take away someone's welfare, and they will get a job. This assumes there are jobs to be filled, but also assumes it is financially worthwhile to be in work because it pays better than welfare, though this might not always be true. It sounds reasonable in some parts of the county, but in many parts, and not just West Baltimore, there are no jobs. And what is a 'proper job'? Selling drugs on the street corner is, after all, a job. It may not yet be legal, but it is a job. And tax free. Maybe Charles Murray should be applauding the existence of the free market in narcotics?

buttslinger

06-29-2018, 11:46 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5rA_2BoIgI

bluesoul

06-29-2018, 11:50 PM

yeah, thanks for that attmpt at a reply

dns4809

07-03-2018, 02:26 PM

anyone with six bankruptcies under their belt isn't good at business. A person who lost a $1 billion dollars running a casino where the house always wins is not good at business. On the contrary, they suck at it.

Making money off the presidency because countries are falling over themselves to help you financially to get on your good side doesn't make you a good businessman. It just makes you good at abusing the presidency.

buttslinger

07-09-2018, 03:01 AM

I'm sure in a room full of Russian Prostitutes, Donald is a real gas, but as President of the United States he lacks character.

buttslinger

07-12-2018, 04:30 AM

I used to like to go to the Air Shows when I was a kid, climb through a tank or a B-17, awesome. But I've never seen as many military Aircraft as when I flew into Germany. All the Presidents have complained about NATO members paying club dues, but for Trump it's one less day out of jail, I guess.

buttslinger

07-13-2018, 05:41 AM

Hmmm, the crowds in Europe aren't like Kansas, hunh?
Where's Stavros? I hope he's not planning on saving the world, or anything.
Trump's White Trash Tour ends of course where it all began, with Trump and Putin getting there stories straight. .
10 hours of Gomer, Groper, Gowdy, Issa, All these guys are showing off for Fox News.
They should do routine lie detector tests on Congress, just like they do in the FBI

buttslinger

07-17-2018, 04:47 AM

Having this Mueller Investigation hanging over his head,.....How big of an asshole does Trump have to be to let this go on? How often does THAT DAMN INVESTIGATION pop up in his brain, every 45 seconds? A New York Real Estate Developer? All of Mueller's guys are from the old school gangster trials.
Let this be a lesson for you, Republicans, because when he goes down, you go down. Kobiashi Maru, Motherfuckers!!! haw haw haw.

filghy2

07-17-2018, 09:26 AM

Unlike in his past business ventures, Trump seems to have repaid his Russian backers with interest this time. Putin could hardly have asked for more from this trip. Even Fox News criticised Trump's sycophancy to Putin.

The question is whether this will cause the Republicans to finally wake up and recognise the need to do something, or will they continue to sit on their hands and do nothing but tut-tut. Surely they can no longer pretend that Trump is just using unconventional means to pursue the same foreign policy goals they support. My money is on more tut-tutting - I think Trump must have their cojones in a big jar in his office.

Stavros must be on holidays or otherwise indisposed. Normally we would have had at least 1/2 a dozen posts on Trump's trip.

dns4809

07-17-2018, 03:18 PM

why do we need a big Army bombs nuke American surrender to a Foe with with out a Shot fired NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF AMERICA HAS THIS HAPPENED

rodinuk

07-17-2018, 10:38 PM

would - wouldn't

same difference eh?

buttslinger

07-19-2018, 05:27 AM

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bluesoul

07-20-2018, 04:57 PM

supposedly trump has invited putin to the whitehouse (https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/19/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-summit/index.html)- possibly to clear up this whole "would/wouldn't" thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7e3O3-IwNM

bluesoul

07-20-2018, 08:12 PM

love this story: cohen (trump's former lawyer) has a recording of trump discussing payments to "a playboy model" whom he had an affair with. trump's current lawyer (giuliani, the guy that married his cousin and fucked up the deuce) confirmed that trump had discussed payments.

gotta give it up to corruption, though. despite all this, these guys will still stand by their man. i wonder what the everyday citizen that's a trump supporter gains from all this though that keeps him going or does ignoring facts just become the daily business?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-tape.html

Stavros

07-21-2018, 08:41 AM

If you want to worry about something, worry about the erosion of the rule of law, and a fundamental shift that could undermine the very basis of democracy, and not just in the US.

To add to the cavalier manner in which the President tells lies, often obvious, verifiable lies, and the indifference to foreign intervention in the US election, we now have the icing, those who think that if the Russians did intervene then it was a good thing.

A voter called in to C-Spa to register her thanks to the Russians, as apparently Hillary Clinton was such a threat to the USA it may have needed the help of a foreign government.

“I'll try not to sound too awful, but I want to thank the Russians for interfering with our election to stop Hillary Clinton (http://thehill.com/people/hillary-clinton) from becoming president,” a caller from Connecticut said.
http://thehill.com/policy/international/397684-c-span-caller-thanks-russia-for-interfering-to-stop-clinton-from-winning

Responding to a social media tweet "“If Trump & co. just pivoted to ‘Aren’t you glad Russia helped us defeat Hillary Clinton?’ would there be any serious blowback from his base?”, Mckay Coppins received these replies-

“No,” said (https://twitter.com/CassandraRules/status/1019647581943721984) Cassandra Fairbanks, a writer at the right-wing news and conspiracy website Gateway Pundit (and a former Sputnik employee). “I mean, I would be cool with it. Im already there. If russia was involved we should thank them.”

“No,” responded (https://twitter.com/bridgers_kirk/status/1019603950524354571) another self-identified Trump voter. “Hillary is a greater threat to our Republic.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/trump-voters-putin-russia/565592/

I am not even sure it would be ok to shrug shoulders and say 'yeah but they are right wing nut jobs' because the basic principle is that Americans appeal to Americans to vote, and should not be so desperate -for money, support of any kind- as to recruit a foreign government. But if it is the case that Americans have turned against themselves to the extent that they consider Hillary Clinton the greater threat, does this not expose a cleavage in American society that may not be repaired?

In the UK, the EU Referendum was won by the Leave campaigns that broke the law, while last night on Channel 4 News it emerged that one of the campaign groups, LeaveEU was funded largely by a man, Aaron Banks, whose claim to be a multi-millionaire may not be as strong as he claims, and whose claim he had a 'boozy lunch' with the Russian Ambassador masks numerous visit to Russia Banks has not admitted to, possibly leading to more information on Russian involvement in the Referendum. Banks is a close friend of Nigel Farage.

Law breaking, and indifference to political institutions that hold people accountable for their actions are undermining democracy as we know it. When Banks appeared at a Select Committee to discuss his role in the Referendum he treated it as a joke and half-way through got up to leave saying he had a lunch appointment more important than giving evidence to Parliament. Dominic Cummings, who was a principal organiser of the other -mostly Conservative Party run- Vote Leave, has refused to appear before any Parliamentary committee, while Alexander Nix of Cambridge Analytica also refused at least two requests before appearing, and dismissing a lot of what the Committee asked as if it were irrelevant.

The police are now involved in the UK case just as Robert Mueller is investigating claims in the US. The danger is that law breaking and lies become a norm where once they were unacceptable at any level. Once that line has been crossed, the glue that holds our institutions together begins to melt, and they fall apart. This is a slow-burn crisis, and as we have yet to feel the full force of Brexit or the insane tariff war the USA is waging -for reasons of 'National Security' we cannot know the consequences, but would you rather live in a country which respects the rule of law or not? Where politicians do not lie, or tell as many as they like?

Or is this just a blip in recorded time, and when there is a change of government we will 'return to normal'? Or will half of the USA now accept a Democrat President at all?

buttslinger

07-22-2018, 01:03 AM

I forget the name of the guy on TV who said that Trump is like the guy in the car who says "You can look anywhere you want to, Officer, as long as it's not the trunk" Everything he says screams collusion. Anyone who says "there was no collusion" a thousand times can make a reasonable person conclude that there was indeed collusion. No colusion, though.

I hope Mueller exposes not only Trump but Putin as well. Those fuckin' Russians stole my Mom's IRS return one year. They say all that trouble Putin is costing the West costs him peanuts in comparison. NASA spent 2 billion for a pen that writes in space, the Russians use a pencil. Champagne taste beer-bottle budget. In fact I heard they sell beer in the soft drink section of the Moscow Safeway. Putin is one of the richest men in the world.

filghy2

07-22-2018, 01:57 AM

If you want to worry about something, worry about the erosion of the rule of law, and a fundamental shift that could undermine the very basis of democracy, and not just in the US.

I agree there are plenty of grounds for pessimism, and we've seen it happen in some other countries whose leaders Trump so admires, albeit ones where democracy and the rule of law were less well-entrenched. I guess the saving grace is that these people are not very competent, so eventually they are bound to screw something up so badly that they can't lie their way out of it. There's a fair chance something like that will happen before the 2020 election.

yodajazz

07-22-2018, 06:55 AM

If you want to worry about something, worry about the erosion of the rule of law, and a fundamental shift that could undermine the very basis of democracy, and not just in the US.

A voter called in to C-Spa to register her thanks to the Russians, as apparently Hillary Clinton was such a threat to the USA it may have needed the help of a foreign government.

“I'll try not to sound too awful, but I want to thank the Russians for interfering with our election to stop Hillary Clinton (http://thehill.com/people/hillary-clinton) from becoming president,” a caller from Connecticut said.
http://thehill.com/policy/international/397684-c-span-caller-thanks-russia-for-interfering-to-stop-clinton-from-winning

Responding to a social media tweet "“If Trump & co. just pivoted to ‘Aren’t you glad Russia helped us defeat Hillary Clinton?’ would there be any serious blowback from his base?”, Mckay Coppins received these replies-

“No,” said (https://twitter.com/CassandraRules/status/1019647581943721984) Cassandra Fairbanks, a writer at the right-wing news and conspiracy website Gateway Pundit (and a former Sputnik employee). “I mean, I would be cool with it. Im already there. If russia was involved we should thank them.”

“No,” responded (https://twitter.com/bridgers_kirk/status/1019603950524354571) another self-identified Trump voter. “Hillary is a greater threat to our Republic.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/trump-voters-putin-russia/565592/

As a spiritual person, i see a spiritual issue here. It can boil down to a simple issue of positive thinking vs negative thinking. Long ago, a man named Jesus, weighed in on this issue, in very strong terms. He commanded us " to love one another". There are many who think, that Jesus's teachings, are for the purpose of, 'getting a good seat in the afterlife'. However I have come to see that his teachings, pave the way for a happier daily life, and also leads to have success, and other good things in this life. At this point enemies of the US now understand that planting negative energy in the US public dialogue, is more efficient than sending bombers. Unfortunately, there are also Americans, who benefit greatly from this, as well. There are super wealthy persons, and major corporate interests, who understand that the government is the major force to hold them accountable for their actions. And the do pay substantial taxes, in many cases. So it is in their interest to fund attacks on government, and to vilify democrats, who understand, that consumer demand is the major driver of the economy. Therefore working to benefit the most people, helps everyone. So Jesus speaking about, helping "the least of them", is an avenue for American prosperity. However 'fundamentalist christian movement', is centered more around the worship, and 'letter of the law' aspects of christianity. That is, finding something that you don't like, or don't understand, and finding a Bible passage that condemns it. However Jesus himself came into a society that had lots of specific rules. His message was that sometimes, the letter of laws, can lose the spirit of the law. Thus he said that Love, is what fulfills the spirit of 'God's laws'.

Actually the woman's conduct, who is quoted here, can be better understood, if one understands the concept of Satan, or the devil. Most people think of some specific looking creature, for that concept. Those are merely personifications, of the human ability to choose destruction over creation, or over positive creativity. This force resides within us all, as the choice to choose destructive paths. So I can say, "the devil made her say that", and that is the truth. However stating that, that simply, belies a complex chain of events. And at this stage of the game, we need better understanding. God can also be destructive. But his destruction here on earth is seen as largely, what man has chosen to put in the laws of the universe, (part of God). God is Love, and God is Law, God is Truth, etc. But I say that belief in God, is an overrated quality. It is really about understanding the principles 'he' stands for.

Stavros

07-22-2018, 10:09 AM

As a spiritual person, i see a spiritual issue here. It can boil down to a simple issue of positive thinking vs negative thinking.

I understand the point you are making, and would refer back to the 2008 election in comparison with 2016, because I take the view that the voters don't want to hear bad things, but good things. I was right about 2008, wrong about 2016, even though in numerical terms, the Republican campaign of complaint lost to the Democrat more positive vision by nearly 3 million votes.

In 2008 there were very real events that were negative -the financial crash, the consequence of regime change in Iraq, to name just two- and the message of hope that Obama proclaimed was designed to retrieve from those failures an alternative vision of what Americans could do to be different, to repair their financial system, to be more cautious in international relations, and focus on the future.

That Obama was not always able to achieve what he set out to achieve is not his fault unless you blame him for not being more aggressive or innovative in his policies, on the Middle East in particular. That said, there is a sorry history of US Presidents determined to 'make a difference' in the Middle East who ended up, as all are fated to do, being recruited by one side or another for their own purposes, damaging the US whatever it does.

What was disturbing about 2016, and continues to disturb, is the sheer volume of negative comments, the relentless attacks, the extraordinary language used to demonize opponents. Nothing as bad as 2008 happened to the US during the Obama Presidency, yet one would think from the campaign rhetoric that the USA was on the verge of collapse and only one man could save it. The attacks are extraordinary because of the depiction of opponents as liars and traitors, for no other reason than they are opponents.

It is true that this kind of partisan warfare was used by Newton Gingrich to attack Bill Clinton and the Democrats in the 1990s, and that Mitch McConnell has taken it to new levels, or depths, but I think while you may be right to imply a 'spiritual' anxiety at work, I think it needs to be fleshed out more, because a lot of the issues that appear in the Republican narrative of 'what went wrong' reach back through Obama and Clinton to the Civil Rights era of the 1960s but for some, to the Civil War, so that it may be the odd fact -odd to most of us who live outside the USA- that religion can be manipulated for political purposes because it matters so much to Americans, yet appears also to be irrational rather than spiritual. You have to marvel at the way in which Abortion becomes a 'Pro-Life' issue with the 'sanctity of human life' at its core, from people who don't blink when aborting a life with a drone in Afghanistan, Pakistan or the Yemen, as well as shooting dead unarmed men based on a moment's irrational fear.When Trotsky ridiculed opponents of Bolshevik Revolution with the words (translations vary) We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life, he might well have been speaking for today's Republicans.

If you compare the USA with the Republic of Ireland, you find that one of the most dependable Roman Catholic countries in the world has in the last 10 years been transformed by a population that either just does not believe with the fervour it once did, or has become disillusioned with a religious institution that has failed its congregations, not just through sexual abuse involving the clergy, but the revelations of the fierce, brutal conditions children were subjected to in Catholic Schools. Not long ago I found myself chatting to an Irish woman at a bus stop in town, and without being prompted she said she hated the Church because of what the nuns did to her when she was a child. 'I know Jesus loves me' she said, but she had nothing good to say about the Church. But now Ireland not only has legal same-sex marriages, its Prime Minister is openly gay, something that would have been inconceivable just 20 years ago, and Abortion is now legal. By way of contrast, the USA, for so long considered the country of the future, appears to be walking backwards.

And it is in that past that I think the secrets lie, that many Americans hate the country that the USA has become, if they perceive themselves to be Americans descended from the 'White Christians of European Origin' who they claim created the USA, which they see being 'taken away' from them by Asians, by Muslims, by Latinos, and worst of all, by Black people. In spite of their Christian heritage, I wonder if a hard core of them have ever regarded Black people as humans beings, let alone their equals. When a Black man entered the White House as President, the dam broke, there was nothing left to live for, the physical, intellectual and spiritual heart of their country had been torn apart: the slaves had taken over the plantation. The abuse that followed crystallized in that one perpetual question: Is Obama American?

And if you want to bring the Satan fantasy into it, then the USA became a a hell on earth of multiple languages, multiple ethnicities, and multiple identities: and God, Family and Country are the foundation of the USA and now is the time to return the USA to its original owners, though the children of God seem reluctant to admit they are the offspring in a one-parent family.

That the USA was made by so many languages, ethnicities and identities is now dismissed as if it were the problem, with damaging consequences. A similar argument is the meat in the inedible sandwich made by Bannonades and European Fascists who have never accepted any form of 'multi-culturalism' as a natural condition, and seek to 'restore' their fantasy of a White, Christian Europe' which in reality either never existed, or when it did, was convulsed with the periodic wars driven by hate and greed that ended with the catastrophe of 1945 from which we thought we had survived through community rather than conflict -ironic, because it was not explicitly Christian, the kind of community Jesus might approve of.

So when you refer to the spiritual condition in the USA, I fear it reflects division rather than unity, that it leads people to cherry pick their way through their sacred texts to justify whatever they want, and that in policy terms it relies on a negative narrative of loss, failure and crisis to engineer changes that will not make the USA a better place to live in. Or Filghy2 may be right and this is just a blip in American politics and that 'normal service will be resumed' in 2020 if not the mid-terms. Maybe, but a lot of damage has been done, on top of the deep divisions that have always existed in US society, divisions which exist, often in other forms in the UK and across Europe -but divisions that need not be the cause of destruction. We seem to be losing more than we are gaining, and so much of it based on bogus argument manipulated by people more concerned with their wealth and power than the wider interests of society.

buttslinger

07-22-2018, 05:01 PM

When I was in Colledge, we had to do a project on Utopia, we split the class into groups of five, and the five of us had to get together and come up with our version of a modern Utopia. Of course I hated it, if you want the best Utopia, just find the hundred most Utopian People in the World, get funding from large Foundations or the Gov't. VOILA -utopia.
What's better, a perfect World, or a perfect Person?

broncofan

07-23-2018, 07:25 PM

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021388295618682881

The threat alone without any execution should be impeachable. I don't have the book in front of me but Cass Sunstein's Citizens Guide to Impeachment contained examples of impeachable conduct. Threatening a private company with punitive action because of its criticism of you is more severe than many of the cases of impeachment that took place in colonial America. Since there is not a great deal of precedent for the use of the impeachment clause after the ratification of the Constitution and since the clause has its historic roots both in Colonial America and in England of the King's ministers these examples are instructive.

I'm not expecting Republicans to do anything about it of course.

Stavros

07-25-2018, 02:37 AM

Subsidies, subsidies, who in a free market economy believes in subsidies?

From This:
President Donald J. Trump
YEARS OF UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES: China has consistently taken advantage of the American economy with practices that undermine fair and reciprocal trade.

For many years, China has pursued industrial policies and unfair trade practices—including dumping, discriminatory non-tariff barriers, forced technology transfer, over capacity, and industrial subsidies—that champion Chinese firms and make it impossible for many United States firms to compete on a level playing field.

China has dumped and unfairly subsidized a range of goods for the United States market, undermining America’s domestic industry.
In 2018 alone, the Trump Administration has found dumping or unfair subsidies on 13 different products, including steel wheels, cold-drawn mechanical tubing, tool chests and cabinets, forged steel fittings, aluminum foil, rubber bands, cast iron soil pipe and fittings, and large diameter welded pipe.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-confronting-chinas-unfair-trade-policies/

To this:
Trump to offer farmers $12B in trade aid

By ADAM BEHSUDI (https://www.politico.com/staff/adam-behsudi), CATHERINE BOUDREAU (https://www.politico.com/staff/catherine-boudreau), HELENA BOTTEMILLER EVICH (https://www.politico.com/staff/helena-bottemiller-evich) and MEGAN CASSELLA (https://www.politico.com/staff/megan-cassella)

07/24/2018 10:04 AM
Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue on Tuesday unveiled a three-part, $12 billion plan to ease the sting of retaliatory tariffs on U.S. farmers through a mix of payments, purchases and trade promotion efforts.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/24/trump-trade-aid-for-farmers-737108

Eat yer grits, America!

buttslinger

07-25-2018, 04:46 AM

Maybe Trump will give a five thousand dollar tax deduction to anyone who votes for him.
You trying to tell the DealMaker he can't deal?
Obama did the same thing with his Cash4Clunkers, precedent. Obama did it.

broncofan

07-25-2018, 05:48 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/24/the-trump-michael-cohen-tape-transcript-annotated/?utm_term=.13bfdc489d5d

"COHEN: All the stuff. Because — here, you never know where that company — you never know what he’s —

TRUMP: Maybe he gets hit by a truck.

COHEN: Correct. So, I’m all over that...."

Stavros

07-25-2018, 12:40 PM

I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!

8:50 am - 24 Jul 2018
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1021784726217142273
(My emphasis)

Hmmm..guess that proves what a feeble loser JFK was during the Cuban Missile Crisis. As for Reagan, is it true he said
Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall! And can you get me a coke, Please?

buttslinger

07-27-2018, 07:55 PM

Just saw the article on the ouster of Fox News host Kimberly Guilfoyle, sounds good, because basically she was a bitch. Roger Ailes called her "that Puerto Rican whore"...good one, Roger.
Now that the noose is tightening around Trump's neck, I say lets be hospitable and see how many others we can fit in the noose. Live by the Donald, Die by the Donald.

https://image.ibb.co/cCunDo/00.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Stavros

07-28-2018, 04:28 PM

Have any of the people who interview Rudolph Giuliani told him to his face he is a liar?

The latest is a perfect example of the problem we now have where the lies they tell are not designed to 'cover their own ass' but to condemn someone else.

Here is Giuliani on Michael Cohen on the 26th May 2018 saying that Cohen
"is an honest, honorable lawyer."

But on the 27th of July 2018 saying of Cohen
“He has lied all his life… a person who is found to be an incredible liar, he’s got a tremendous motive to lie now… I don’t think anyone believes that.”
http://theweek.com/speedreads/787243/rudy-giuliani-called-michael-cohen-honest-honorable-lawyer-may-now-hes-incredible-liar

The argument is that none of this will matter because the President's voter base don't care, but can this always be true and will it always be true? Is there not some point at which the lies become so offensive because so brazen that they must cause even the most die-hard supporter to say 'enough'?

Is there really nothing that can be done to put a stop to this, have interviewers now got to challenge, live on air the rubbish people like Giuliani say, or just do the next best thing and not ask for them for their opinion at all? I mean, the man is a lawyer! If you reach a point where the President, the Attorney General, and a host of professional lawyers all tell lies what does this say about a political system where at one time even one small lie exposed would ether result in instant resignation and words of regret or in the case of Bill Clinton lead directly to Impeachment.

Newt Gingrich and Mitch McConnell since the 1990s have undermined the rule of law, and eroded any sense of moral decency in politics by making lying and a distortion of the truth a legitimate political weapon. Lives may not have been lost, but is it not democracy that lies wounded on the battlefield, shot down by the very people who were supposed to protect it?

broncofan

07-28-2018, 06:01 PM

The argument is that none of this will matter because the President's voter base don't care, but can this always be true and will it always be true? Is there not some point at which the lies become so offensive because so brazen that they must cause even the most die-hard supporter to say 'enough'?

We've had a lot of developments over the last few days and it's only made the case for impeachment more obvious though as you indicate the end result depends on the Republican party and the voters. I find the longer it takes to explain bad behavior the more likely it is to elicit a yawn. If it is something like obstruction in which you have a President thwarting his own law enforcement agents it's sadly a longer explanation and seems to the layman to be petty even though nothing more seriously undermines the integrity of our system.

On the other hand, we now have statements from Cohen that Trump knew about Jr's meeting with Veselnitskaya. I am going out on a limb and guessing that there will eventually be some additional corroboration of this fact, whether via email or phone records or additional testimony. The question then becomes whether something like this can be quickly turned into a meme or a campaign ad and is short enough for the average person to digest the duplicity involved in all of his evasions.

Imagine an ad that contrasts Trump's numerous statements saying he doesn't think it was Russia or that he did not collude with verbal testimony that he knew what Russia did. Play Trump's fawning over Putin and Russia against the fact that he knew they helped him win the election. It's sad that it may need to be short enough for a soundbyte.

And we won't get all of his voters, but we may peel off a few, but the midterms are approaching, and winning is the first step for the return of accountability and the rule of law.

buttslinger

07-29-2018, 03:17 AM

We're 100 days from the midterm, they can and will say anything they want with Nunes in charge.
If the Democrats don't get the House, the Russians are using the Mind Control Alien software Trump sent Putin from his Area 51 field trip. If the Democrats don't get the House, this Country deserves to burn in hell.
The story here isn't one guy....it's 50 million gape jawed airheads! 50 MILLION!
I never thought I'd see the day when 50 million Americans all choose to be conned. At the highest level of the government! And two years, it's witchcraft.
Dark Forces at work....

buttslinger

07-30-2018, 07:34 PM

So, how does this work?....
I think I heard that Mueller will release his report around the end of September. Will Trump's 50 million strong wall deflect the truth?
It should be very interesting to see what happens, I hope Rosenstein doesn't decide that airing our own dirty laundry is bad for the Country, I hope half the Country hating the other half is good practice for Hating Putin, one of those rare moments when dogs and cats stand up together. For me, all this stuff is one big mess, but you can bet there are people trained to find method in the madness and turn defeat into victory. With half of Americans not voting, and the other half pretty firm on voting as they always have, it is conceivable the Rooskies found a way to crack the remaining last minute deciders, who vote with their gut. Where is FDR when you need him? More questions than answers...show the clip. And, oh yeah, get me a coke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBKu9OJ8Ltk

broncofan

07-30-2018, 08:35 PM

I don't know when the Mueller report will come out but there's no way it exonerates Trump since what we already know includes grave abuses of his authority. We know he's committed multiple acts of obstruction of justice, we know that he knew about the Russian interference and has spent years now lying about it, vacillating between an acknowledgement of Russia's role and then pivoting to his ludicrous hypothetical about a 400 pound hacker.

We will get more information but I think one major problem here is that the standard we should hold politicians to is too vague. His party has for decades decried liberal moral relativism yet their new alibi is that he's not doing anything anyone else hasn't done. This is neither true nor relevant. You cannot get assistance from a foreign adversary to win an election, find out about it, refuse to tell intelligence agencies about that fact and later attack their conclusions when you know they're correct. There is no principle the Republicans would not sell out in their pursuit of power.

buttslinger

07-31-2018, 01:35 AM

Two years of Trump and still revelations pop up, there are probably entire chapters of illegal adventures in Mueller's Report we have no clue about yet. How big will the report be, two pages? Two Rental Trucks?
The success of the US in the real world is quite astounding, and in one sense I agree with the Republicans we shouldn't just give it away. I agree with the Republicans on a lot of stuff, about 40 percent worth. If I moved from Northern Virginia to West Virginia I would probably agree with Republicans about 60% of the time. BTW, I agree with strangers on the street about 50% of the time.

It's a shame but a reality that in a real world Democrats can't spend the money and energy in rural areas to flip Rush Limbaugh intoxicated voters, because most of them should be Democrat but don't know it. Americans have a higher approval rating of Adolph Hitler than their own Congress, the Congress they elected. And now they go ahead and elect a Queens Sleazeball who ran as a joke. If you take a stroll down a crowed city street your brain sees the pretty girl, but reality sees the other 99 ugly chicks. While most every other country in the World would never admit it, they'd be happy to trade their problems for a cash-induced euphoria, where it's always the other guy's fault. I think the Republican's deal with the Devil is about to reach it's time limit, Trump might want to spend the next two years denying Mueller's "allegations" but I don't really think the rest of the Republican Party wants two years of BAD TRUMP on TV. Lots of Trump Loyalist would like to stick with Trump til Death dost them part, I hope he takes the whole Party down with him. Of Course then SATAN would change parties and become a Democrat. All these Republicans I hate make up half the Country, and half my relatives. I hope Mueller knocks all my relative's socks off. I hope he knocks my socks off too. I'm getting sick of this.

buttslinger

08-08-2018, 09:10 PM

To make a very very long story short, the Donald Trump Show still has high ratings, but I think there are signs the Sponsors are getting jittery about having their brand linked to the Donald Trump Experience.
The Portrait of Dorian Grey hidden in the attic is the National Debt, and as ugly and vile Trump is, the National Debt is worse, in my opinion.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

buttslinger

08-10-2018, 08:15 PM

Even some of the Fox News personalities are embarrassed by some of the White House personalities, we've sailed way past REPUBLICAN now. Cult of Personality.

https://preview.ibb.co/fby7Qp/0.jpg (https://ibb.co/gkQnQp)

buttslinger

08-14-2018, 02:24 AM

Stroke Vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Uy0Uznw4E

Stavros

08-19-2018, 10:56 AM

Donald Trump’s outbursts against the special counsel investigation into Russian interference in the US election have become a near-daily occurrence (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/17/trump-revoke-security-clearances-john-brennan-bruce-ohr). But on Friday the president made public comments that some observers and legal experts said were unprecedented – and could impact the objectivity of jurors.
Addressing reporters on the south lawn at the White House, Trump said his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort was “a very good person”. At the same time, 23 miles away in Alexandria, Virginia, a jury was deliberating Manafort’s fate (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/17/trump-manafort-pardon-trial-jury-latest-news).
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/18/trump-manafort-trial-jurors-sequestered

Is this legal? Could it be regarded as 'contempt of court'? But can the President be fined for interfering in a jury decision if it can be show that jurors were influenced by his intervention?
You can set aside the shock that a President would intervene in a trial, because there are no rules this President honours.

And anyway, however many trials Manafort gets through, is it not all but inevitable that he will receive a Presidential pardon? It will be a simple message from the White House -the rule of law does not apply to this President or his friends, anyone prosecuted and found guilty will be pardoned, so don't bother. We are above the law.

buttslinger

08-19-2018, 05:13 PM

….. however many trials Manafort gets through, is it not all but inevitable that he will receive a Presidential pardon? It will be a simple message from the White House -the rule of law does not apply to this President or his friends, anyone prosecuted and found guilty will be pardoned, so don't bother. We are above the law.

When it comes to Trump's future, it's not what I know that scares me, it's what I don't know. I'm reading tea leaves, I'm trying to read the other Politicians, Real Politicians. Despite everything Rudy says, all the main players, Rosenstein, Sessions and Mueller are lifelong Republicans. I see that as a good thing. If Trump pardons Manafort for crimes against the Nation, Mueller can and will try him in State Court where Trump's Pardon Powers don't exist , and you can bet the Judge will give him the maximum sentence. My big question is if Manafort knows this, why doesn't he just flip? Does he like the baloney sandwiches he gets in jail? They say FDR was still trying to walk the last week of his life, I'm sure Trump Manafort Cohen Stone etc will still be wheeling and dealing in jail, the hustle never ends.

buttslinger

08-19-2018, 07:07 PM

Come on, you Old School Republicans, open your eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEh-jF8CHEQ

Stavros

08-20-2018, 05:44 AM

[QUOTE=buttslinger;1849051]
Despite everything Rudy says, all the main players, Rosenstein, Sessions and Mueller are lifelong Republicans. I see that as a good thing.
--But your President is not a Republican and in the first tv debate for the part's nomination he made it clear he didn't care what the party did or said, and if they didn't nominate him he would run against them. After all the Republicans are part of the problem, isn't that what his entire campaign was about? How the party establishment endorsed someone so hostile to them remains one of the 'what if's' in recent history, to which the only explanation is that they needed him to reverse everything Obama implemented, and reward themselves and their friends with tax cuts.
--Why does Giuliani appear on tv every Sunday, or rather, why do the tv stations bother when he just talks rubbish? If he ever had anyone's respect, he has lost it by now. 'The truth is not truth'. Not sure even Wittgenstein could swallow that.

If Trump pardons Manafort for crimes against the Nation, Mueller can and will try him in State Court where Trump's Pardon Powers don't exist , and you can bet the Judge will give him the maximum sentence. My big question is if Manafort knows this, why doesn't he just flip?
--The swamp life that oozed out of the darker recesses of Manhattan and now swarms over this administration is made up of men who believe the simple rule: if you want something in life, go out and take it. They consider themselves entitled to take as much as they can, legally or not, and don't care what you think about it. They can't live on $300,000 a year, they need $30 million. Even the ones who already had millions, billions expect the tax payer to fund their lavish demands, from transport to furniture. But the most extraordinary thing is that it doesn't seem to matter that this President has surrounded himself with liars, crooks and incompetent managers, or that he himself is corrupt and in some way nobbled by the Russians, his supporters just don't care, just as they think the press is made up of liars and they wouldn't care if the New York Times and the Washington Post were shut down and their staff thrown in prison. It is the rule of law, as well as basics like etiquette in public life that have been eroded, with no end in sight of what may be the deliberate sabotage of the US political system by a foul-mouthed moron who takes the view: if you don't worship and adore me I will destroy everything I can.

He resents you, he is full of spite and anger, and will lash out, he will burn it down rather than preserve a system that lasted for 242 years. And he will justify his rage and resentment to the bitter end.

buttslinger

08-20-2018, 07:06 PM

I had yet one more fantastic post on Trump, but it disappeared into thin air again when I pushed Go Advanced
Fuck it.

Even without Mueller, Trump would be a disgraced President in the end, probably when he crashed the World Economy like Bush.

If Love makes the World go round, Hate makes it go even faster, I think the point of the post I lost was the Trump Racists have always been the little secret of the Republican Party, if you want to kill the snake you have to cut off it's head, and if Limbaugh and Hannity want to wrap their everloving arms around Trump, all the better, nothing ruins a reputation like Colluding with the KGB. In the Fox World, you're either a Patriot or a pinhead.

buttslinger

08-21-2018, 04:18 AM

Stavros, I think we may have to face the fact that people are either sick of Trump, or they're sick of you and/or me.
I think the world has Trump Fatigue, tonight my fears are centering around my trip to the dentist tomorrow, Manafort is sitting in a jail cell twenty minutes away from me, I wonder what he's thinking about? How long has it been since these guys had a good blow job?

broncofan

08-21-2018, 08:12 AM

I had yet one more fantastic post on Trump, but it disappeared into thin air again when I pushed Go Advanced
I've had that happen a few times myself. So what did we miss?

buttslinger

08-21-2018, 02:51 PM

I've had that happen a few times myself. So what did we miss?

I don't get it, I thought it was a glitch, but how many times have I thought it's the computer's fault when it's actually mine?
I'm signed in, I write some stuff, hit Go Advanced to see what I wrote, and I get the page saying I'm not signed in. Maybe it's onset dementia.

broncofan

08-21-2018, 10:49 PM

I don't get it, I thought it was a glitch, but how many times have I thought it's the computer's fault when it's actually mine?
I'm signed in, I write some stuff, hit Go Advanced to see what I wrote, and I get the page saying I'm not signed in. Maybe it's onset dementia.
I've decided not to go advanced. If they have a go beginner button I'll hit it.

But we had some good news today. I didn't follow the trial but Manafort was found guilty on five charges of tax fraud, two counts bank fraud, and one count hiding a foreign bank account. He faces up to 240 years in prison.

What that means is that even though there were 10 charges for which there was a hung jury, we were able to find 12 people who could conclude the obvious without unnecessary partisanship. It's a ray of hope.

Michael Cohen is pleading guilty so we'll see what he has to say about the rest of them.

Stavros

08-22-2018, 01:20 AM

In a stunning admission Michael Cohen, the lawyer, admitted to a New York court that he had broken campaign finance laws and claimed he did so "in coordination with and at the direction of a federal candidate". His lawyer later confirmed he was referring to Mr Trump.

Cohen said he acted "at the request of the candidate" and added: "I participated in the conduct for the purposes of influencing the election."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/21/trumps-former-lawyer-michael-cohen-plea-deal-fraud-charges/

In most cases this would lead to a resignation, but we may be living in an era when the law is broken but nothing is done about it, even when the participants admit to it. You want to win this election or not? But if the rule of law no longer applies, it has no meaning.
We have seen in the UK how the former Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson went from the Foreign Office to the Telegraph as a journalist within a week, violating the Ministerial Code that says Ministers must not enter the private sector for three months, just as we now know the Leave campaigns in the EU Referendum broke election law by spending beyond the legal limit, with money that we may yet discover came from the Russian government. Either way, the EU referendum is tainted, but nobody has the courage to stand up and say that as it was crooked, so it should be stopped.

It is official and a fact: the President is a crook, when will he resign?

yodajazz

08-22-2018, 01:58 AM

buttslinger

08-22-2018, 02:00 AM

….What that means is that even though there were 10 charges for which there was a hung jury, we were able to find 12 people who could conclude the obvious without unnecessary partisanship. It's a ray of hope....

Probably one guy hung up the 10 charges, next stop DC, not much sympathy for Mr Manafort there, ...it sure would be nice if Mr Mueller had a witness who was in the room when Nastya Slutskovitch and her Kremlin Kamarades pitched Collusion to Beredict Donald Jr. He would be the centerpiece of an amazing story that maybe most people would have a hard time believing without proof. No cavities today.

Thanks Bronco, you've been a good soldier, this isn't partisan bickering, it's a threat to the USA disguised as partisan bickering. Trump was right when he said the United States does bad stuff too, but I think everyone in the World sleeps a bit better when the overpayed oversexed racist capitalists are the bad guys. Putin needs a leash.
https://preview.ibb.co/jgKPfz/00.jpg (https://ibb.co/du64fz)
https://preview.ibb.co/iG0Qne/01.jpg (https://ibb.co/d0ewtK)

buttslinger

08-22-2018, 02:05 AM

[I]It is official and a fact: the President is a crook, when will he resign?

I think if were as easy as quitting, saluting, and flying off to MaraLago, Trump would be cool with that. Putin is the Moriarty here, Trump is a punk rich kid who got in way over his head.

buttslinger

08-22-2018, 02:15 AM

This has happened to me several times. I learned to copy my post, before I hit the Go Advanced button. . Sometimes in relogging in a little dialogue window will pop up and ask if I want to use the post, that disappeared.

Yeah, it just did it again, I got sent to a page that said I wasn't signed in, and when I hit the backup arrow I was shown out to cyberspace. It only does it occasionally, but most of my posts aren't based on facts, they're idea flows, and …..blah blah blah. Thanks Yoda.

buttslinger

08-22-2018, 06:11 AM

OK, here's the way I see it, but...
As I understand it, after the fall of the Soviet Union, all these utilities and stuff that the Govt had previously dealt with were dealt out to a bunch of thugs, and Putin was their boss. Putin is supposedly one of the richest men in the World, but nobody knows how much because it's all hidden. But it's billions.
Trump was deeply in debt, and none of the legit banks would lend him money. So he starts laundering these Russian gangster's billions in real estate deals. So after a decade or so of getting richer off Donald Trump, now Putin can blackmail Trump for POWER, for all I know Trump handed over a disc with all the West's secrets on it in Helsinki.

Where my story falls apart is that if Trump knew all this was about to become public record.....is he so twisted he thinks he can get away with it" Puppet? no puppet. you're the puppet!

Mueller came off the bench for this one, he was retired to private business, but he got the band back together and looked into Putin in the US. Putin in Europe. They start wars for that shit. We're going to see the most airtight case you can get, but who knows, we're breaking new ground here, I dunno, if Mueller had proof Trump was running with those 15 Russians he indicted, do you interrupt an election for that? a midterm election? Do you interrupt an election if the Russians are hardwired into it?

I remember Lindsey Graham being happy the day Mueller was brought on, but he lamented that the people will never here any more dirt about Trump because it will all get dished behind doors in Mueller's office. The White House, The Senate, the House of Representatives, the Supreme Court, a jacked up Economy......and Trump still fucked it up. sad

Stavros

08-22-2018, 11:14 AM

I have woken this morning to comments from the parties involved that, as expected, attempt to dismiss the huge importance of the results of yesterday's court appearances.

Again, as expected, the most insulting remark comes from Rudolph Giuliani, who once took on the Mafia in New York with some success, but now seems mentally incapable of distinguishing the violation of the law from the person breaking it:

"There is no allegation of any wrongdoing against the president in the government's charges against Michael Cohen..."
In other words, Michael Cohen, one of the most trusted men in 'the Organization' who said he would 'take a bullet' for The Man, has been a fraud and a liar all that time and nobody knew it-? When did Giuliani first discover John Gotti was a 'Mafia Don'? Did he ever believe Gotti might just be a 'businessman' as he said he was?

The judgement of the President, meanwhile, continues to cause concern with people who can read and write, and who, when presented with the facts in the case of a man who participated in one of the greatest robberies of all time -assisting the President of the Ukraine and his chums in the looting of two-thirds of the country's wealth-
He said: "Paul Manafort is a good man. It doesn't involve me, but I still feel - you know, it's a very sad thing that happened".

If you judge a man by the millions in his bank account(s) then I guess Paul Manafort is a good man, but then I guess you could say the same of John Gotti, were it not for the means by which he acquired his wealth.
All the quotes above from the Conservative Telegraph online-
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/21/trumps-former-lawyer-michael-cohen-plea-deal-fraud-charges/

The real issue here is the claim that the President, as President cannot be indicted for a crime. The Constitution does not say it cannot happen, but apparently the Justice Department has some kind of 'rule' or 'principle' that a President can only be prosecuted for a crime after he leaves office. I am not sure about that. This is what a New York Times article argues:

1) Although there is no explicit prohibition in the Constitution against indicting a president, the Justice Department has long taken the position that sitting presidents are not subject to criminal prosecution.

2) A middle ground and second option urged by some legal experts (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/opinion/indict-president-trial.html) is to allow prosecutors to obtain an indictment but defer further proceedings until the president leaves office.

3) The third option is impeachment, and prosecutors may present the evidence they have gathered to the House for its consideration.

However, a law professor, Eric M. Freedman has argued that a President can be indicted-
that granting sitting presidents immunity from prosecution was “inconsistent with the history, structure and underlying philosophy of our government, at odds with precedent and unjustified by practical considerations.”

But as the article points out and I think this is crucial, when the law was broken, it was broken not by a President, but a Presidential candidate. The question is thus not, can a sitting President be indicted, but can a President be indicted for a crime he committed before becoming President? They point to the case of Presidential nominee John Edwards, who was taken to court over campaign finance violations but not convicted, so there is a precedent with regard to candidates.

The NYT article is here-
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/us/politics/cohen-trump-indicted.html

Maybe as I am not an American there is something I don't understand here. For example, if a group of Senators visits the White House for a meeting with the President, and in full view of the cameras the President pulls out a gun and shoots a dissenting Senator dead, nothing can happen until the President resigns, is impeached, or loses an election -is that right? Indeed, name any crime and the President carries on as if it were not important -and this is a President who will never admit he is wrong about anything -because it is up to Congress to impeach?

The President makes money from the office because there is nothing in the Constitution that says he can't, so if the Constitution doesn't say you can't do it, go ahead, America, indict the man, send him to trial.

Lastly, there was one shocking moment in yesterday's proceedings against Cohen:

Asked by Judge William Pauley whether he was fit to enter a plea, and whether he had consumed any drugs or alcohol in the previous 24 hours, Cohen replied: "Yes. Last night at dinner I had a glass of Glenlivet, 12 years old, on the rocks."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/21/trumps-former-lawyer-michael-cohen-plea-deal-fraud-charges/

It may be only 12 years old, but the man who puts ice in his Single Malt is a man without culture, violating a sacred ritual. Lock him up!

Stavros

08-23-2018, 09:14 AM

US President Donald Trump (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/donald-trump/) said he would consider pardoning his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who was convicted on Tuesday of bank and tax fraud (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/21/paul-manafort-guilty-eight-charges-fraud-trial/), according to a Fox News reporter who interviewed Trump.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/23/donald-trump-says-considering-pardon-paul-manafort/

Because it is all about HIM, and loyalty to HIM. The rule of law? Bank Fraud? Is it the case that none of these things will be of any legal relevance because the President can just sweep them all away with the wave of a hand? Will he wait for the trials of Paul Manafort to end or do it now, rendering every proceeding completely worthless? It seems Manafort only needs to sit in court and say nothing because the evidence and the verdict will be irrelevant. He could be guilty on every count and be sentenced to 100 years (like they do in the US), knowing his buddy will wave his imperial hands and he won't go to gaol.

But hey, it won't matter, the Republicans don't care. They have anointed their God and King, he can do anything he wants and they will protect him. When Boris Johnson was told business leaders in the UK are concerned at the UK crashing out of the EU he responded, 'Fuck business!'. Perhaps Mitch McConnell should do the right thing and respond to the latest news, 'Fuck America!'.

buttslinger

08-24-2018, 10:06 PM

Satan and his lawyers were seen outside the offices of Robert Mueller today, rumors are he was looking for a full immunity deal l if he testifies against Trump. He was spotted later at Duke Zieberts having a New York Strip with Allen Weisselberg. Meanwhile, Trump was said to be seething about John McCain stealing his thunder once again, AWKWARD. Questions loom about what Trump will do if cornered, even Satan shrugged when asked. Are Trump and Pecker still buds? I guess we'll have to check out the next issue of the National Enquirer for the truth.
If Mueller doesn't state his case before the elections, and we spend all of 2019 dragging a kicking and screaming Trump to Club Fed, that would be about a trillion dollars worth of free political ads for the Democrats. Yeah, let's do that. Mike Pence can be our 5 minute President.

Stavros

08-25-2018, 06:37 AM

I am still trying to get my head around a story about a President, a Porn Star, a Playboy Model, the National Enquirer and a man called Pecker.

buttslinger

08-25-2018, 04:09 PM

I am still trying to get my head around a story about a President, a Porn Star, a Playboy Model, the National Enquirer and a man called Pecker.

Imagine how the Clintons feel.

Stavros

08-27-2018, 03:53 PM

If true, this is devastating, and gives a new depth to the Mueller enquiry.

From Newsweek:
Donald Trump Is a 'Russian Asset' Owned by the Mafia, Author Claims in New Book

Omarosa vs. Trump may be the political pro wrestling match of the week, but a more serious confrontation could be prompted by a book that came out Tuesday, alleging that President Donald Trump may be a Russian asset compromised by billions of laundered dollars over decades of shady real estate deals.
In House of Trump, House of Putin: The Untold Story of Donald Trump and the Russian Mafia, veteran journalist and author Craig Unger names 59 Russians as business associates of Trump (who has claimed he has none) and follows the purported financial links between them and the Trump Organization going back decades.
The Trump White House did not immediately respond to Newsweek's requests for comment. In February 2017, Trump issued a blanket denial (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/03/28/trump-business-past-ties-russian-mobsters-organized-crime/98321252/)to questions about Russian money and his business. "I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away," he said (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/03/28/trump-business-past-ties-russian-mobsters-organized-crime/98321252/). "And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all."
Newsweek spoke with Unger about ties he claims exist between the Russian mafia, President Vladimir Putin and the Trump Organization, as well as what a guilty verdict for former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort could mean for the future of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation.

What is money laundering, and what role do you believe the Trump Organization played in it?
Money laundering is taking money from illicit sources and essentially cleaning it and putting it into a Western bank. We are talking about huge sums, a trillion dollars in flight capital from Russia since Putin became president. With the demise of the Soviet Union, the floodgates opened for the Russian mafia. All of Russia's natural resources were up for grabs. If you needed to launder huge sums of money, the best ways are casinos and real estate—both of which Trump was in. Casinos have a $10,000 [reporting threshold under the Bank Secrecy Act]. The Trump Taj Mahal violated that more than a hundred times. But you can’t launder a trillion dollars that way. You really need something like real estate.
You allege that the Trump Organization laundered billions of dollars. How much of the money would it have gotten to keep?
It did enrich him. He gets an 18 to 25 percent franchising fee for these [real estate] projects. Just as McDonald’s franchises burgers, Trump was franchising luxury condos in roughly 40 Trump Towers all over the world. But the larger point is the Russian mafia bailed him out. They own him.
You name numerous alleged mafia links to Trump. Isn’t that just how business is done in New York commercial development?
It has been, absolutely. I think the Russian mafia’s role has been dismissed and not analyzed because people think that in real estate you have to pay off construction people. That has been true historically. But early in Trump's career, the Italian mafia began partnering with the Russian mafia, and the Russian mafia is very, very different, and that ups the ante. The major reason for that is that Russian mafia is a state actor.

There are two things that you say intersect here: the mafia and the Russian government. Explain.
I interviewed [former] General Oleg Kalugin, who was head of counterintelligence for the KGB, and when I asked him about the Russian mafia, he said, "Oh, that’s another branch of the KGB."
Who is Semion Mogilevich?
He is the brains behind the Russian mafia. He is worth $10 billion. He is the king of money launderers, and he is the financial genius behind many of their scams. Russia has no Wall Street, no Goldman Sachs. If you have financial acumen, you work for the Russian mafia. If he had been born here, he might be head of Goldman Sachs. The Russian mafia fetishizes brutality. Mogilevich helped elevate it from this thuggish world of extortion to sophisticated financial scams. He lives in Moscow. He has been on the FBI Ten Most Wanted list, and one of the people on the Budapest task force investigating him was Lisa Page, who was part of Mueller’s investigation. [Page resigned from the FBI in May.]
You call this the greatest intelligence operation of our time. What do you mean by that?
It started out as a simple money-laundering operation at Trump Tower in 1984, when a Russian mobster came to Trump Tower with $6 million in cash and bought five condos. This is the template for what begins to unfold. At least 1,300 of Trump condos in the United States have been sold similarly. All cash purchases through anonymous sources. Those numbers reflect only domestic property. After the demise of the Soviet Union, the KGB decided to create multibillion-dollar companies to survive. The use of the term mafia state is not just a metaphor. It really explains how Russia works. The mafia essentially reports to Putin.
Do you think Trump knew he was being targeted, or did he just think the Russians were being nice and helpful?
I have no idea what’s going on in his mind. But it's hard to believe someone can do 1,300 transactions and not know what is going on.
Both Trump sons have talked about how much money was coming into their business from Russia in the 2000s. Doesn’t that suggest that it was not a secret operation and that the U.S. government was fully aware of it?
Regulations in real estate are so lax that the Trump Organization and Trump have repeatedly said they don't have to do due diligence. And, legally, that is largely true. Sometimes, what is most scandalous is what's legal.
How is it that the U.S. authorities never noticed the relationship you allege between Trump and the Russian mobsters?
I think the whole story of the FBI’s role in this is another book, but there are important unanswered questions there. Before 9/11, the FBI was clearly on the trail of the Russian mafia, and they opened a task force in Budapest that was specifically going after Mogilevich. They chased Mogilevich back to Moscow, where there is no extradition treaty. Soon after that, 9/11 happened. The priorities of the FBI shifted dramatically.
How much so-called kompromat do you believe the Russians have on Trump, how far back does it go, and what is the nature of it?
I am approaching things quite differently than looking for the pee tape. In a lot of ways, the kompromat is hiding in plain sight. I found 59 links between Trump and Russia. He said zero. I say 59. These cannot possibly be random or coincidental contacts. It evolves into something more than money laundering over time.
What is Manafort’s alleged role? What does he know about Trump?
Manafort is an incredibly crucial link to Putin’s goals. He connected Trump directly to Putin's strategic objectives. One question people are not asking: Where is the Russian mafia money coming from? In my book, I identify two pipelines. One is the Ukraine energy trade, in which Mogilevich has a gas intermediary. They get gas at low prices and resell it at market prices, and through this, they were skimming $750 million a year off the Ukraine energy trade. They were getting all that money and wanted the political wherewithal to support it. Manafort was hired to assist Putin's candidate in Ukraine. He was paid in money that he had to launder. And some of that went through a shell company, and I tie that directly to Mogilevich.
How can Manafort hurt Trump?
If he’s convicted, he can still flip. Manafort has known Trump for 30 years. He knows how the whole thing works.
Did any Russian mobsters either follow or threaten you in the course of your research?
I have not had threats. But I dedicate this book to Paul Klebnikov and other Russian journalists who have been murdered. Dozens and dozens of people have been murdered. It takes real courage for the Russian journalists to pursue this.
Which of your findings do you think Americans would find most shocking?
There is a Russian asset in the White House. He is an asset. I believe he is an agent, but it's hard to prove he is knowledgeable. When you look at the 59 Russians, some live in Trump Tower. The Russian mafia is a state actor, and it has direct ties to Russian intelligence, and they have been located in the home of the president of the United States!
This article has been updated to reflect the fact that Lisa Page resigned from the FBI in May.

https://www.newsweek.com/manafort-trump-putin-russia-mafia-strzok-fbi-1076582

Jericho

08-27-2018, 09:35 PM

The only thing that can top that lot is if tRumpf gets assassinated.
The conspiracy theorists will be spinning like tops for years!

If true, this is devastating, and gives a new depth to the Mueller enquiry.

From Newsweek:
Donald Trump Is a 'Russian Asset' Owned by the Mafia, Author Claims in New Book

Stavros

08-28-2018, 01:36 AM

The only thing that can top that lot is if tRumpf gets assassinated.
The conspiracy theorists will be spinning like tops for years!

I don't know, but I think Mueller will refrain from issuing even an interim report before the mid-terms so that he cannot be accused of trying to influence the vote. It would appear that the FBI and the Obama Presidency became aware of Russian activity in the 2016 election but did not make it public a) because they were still gathering evidence, and b) because they did not want to be accused of influencing the vote.

The problem now is that His Imperial Majesty doesn't know if he should move before the mid-terms to shut the enquiry down and risk losing votes in the mid-terms, or wait until after the vote by which time it might be too late. Either way he either has to shut it down if he can, or resort to his tried and tested model of denial, denial, denial, attacking everyone as a liar and a traitor, on the basis that his supporters will approve and believe everything he says. This is a man who simply doesn't care about the institutions of government or the law, and will do whatever he can to remain in office, because he is not a loser. He is convinced the Republicans will retain control of the Senate so he is daring the Democrats to impeach calculating that it won't matter because the Senate will keep him in office.

You know there is a conspiracy theory that JFK was killed by the Mob, but this guy does't rat. He even made the disingenuous remark that he had never knowingly dealt with the mob while conceding the Mob ran the construction industry in Atlantic City-

Trump has consistently denied his dealings with any suspected mobsters ever crossed the line. But he has admitted that almost everyone involved in building casinos in Atlantic City in the 1980s used mob-linked companies.

“You had contractors that were supposedly mob-oriented all over Atlantic City,” he said once. “Every single casino company used the same companies.”
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/investigations/donald-trump-the-deals-and-the-mafia-dons/news-story/40c61d98c72c3ba10064357c047ee8ce

So, 'No, I never used Mafia companies, and yes, the building contracs were given to Mafia owned and controlled companies', or words to that effect.
Tell Michael, it was strictly business...

buttslinger

08-28-2018, 04:20 AM

The only thing that can top that lot is if tRumpf gets assassinated.....

I remember that Enron case where the CEO who was a multimillionaire that had cheated millions had a heart attack a couple days before his prison sentence was about to start.
I want tRumpf to wish he was assassinated. I want him to fall farther and harder than anyman I can think of. I'm afraid I'm going to have to insist that he do jailtime. I want him to live to 103 and hear about how the Trump name is synonymous to Benedict Arnold. I want his family to lose everything. Put him in a cage and take him away from his families like those little Mexican kids. Does anybody who saw Trump onstage at Helsinki see any other scenario except that Putin has the goods on Trump? Probably exactly because of Stavros''s post a couple back. I think Mueller has the goods on him too. I guess the plan is to presume Mueller will be mum until November, and pray the Republicans win the House. Sad. What else can he do, confess all now? Go for it Trump, take all the rope you need.

If it comes out that Trump was compromised by Putin, and that looks like a big possibility, this is like 9-11 Huge. The Republicans will have years of explaining to do. In politics, explaining is losing.
"Hey, weren't you one of the guys who ran a traitor for President?"

A liberal is a conservative who has been arrested. .. Tom Wolfe
https://image.ibb.co/ehqcv9/benedict_arnold.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
deactivate account (https://deleteacc.com/i)

Stavros

08-28-2018, 04:27 AM

The President has said Bruce Ohr, a Justice Department lawyer is 'a disgrace' and should be fired, citing his wife's employment by Fusion GPS and their connections to the 'Steele Dossier'. In fact, while Ms Ohr does work for Fusion GPS she had nothing to do with the 'Steele Dossier' whereas he husband met Steele several times. But this is the key reason why the President looks with startled anxiety at the name Bruce Ohr:

In nearly three decades at the Justice Department, Mr. Ohr has made a career of supporting and facilitating important cases that targeted Russian organized crime. Now he is a target of President Trump, who has put his security clearance under review (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/15/us/politics/john-brennan-security-clearance.html) and attacked him (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1030241273784020993) publicly, and allies. They have cast Mr. Ohr and his wife — who worked as a contractor at the same research firm that produced a damaging dossier of information about Mr. Trump — as villains, part of a pro-Clinton cabal out to destroy the president.

But Mr. Ohr, 56, is far from corrupt, friends and former colleagues said. An experienced law enforcement official, he has a deep understanding of the underworld of Russian organized crime, they said, including raising concerns about at least one oligarch whose name has resurfaced amid the scrutiny of contacts between Trump associates and Russia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/us/politics/bruce-ohr-trump-justice-department.html

Stavros

09-06-2018, 12:41 AM

So, a 'senior White House official' has penned an anonymous vignette of Crazytown, USA in which we learn that the President is incompetent, ignorant and dangerous.

From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.
Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.
“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html

But we know that already. This sounds more like Bruised Ego than Deep Throat, when what we want to know is where does the money come from, what have the Russians got on this man, and most of all, how to get rid of him short of throwing him out of the window.

But it all mounts up, day after day, with Woodward sure to earn more brownie points than the semi-conscious drone aka Sarah Huckabee Sanders -why does she even bother?

This article looks at the breakdown of trust between the Commander-in-Chief and his military. Can this really last for another tw years before there is a major crisis or some kind of breakdow?
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-fallen-out-us-military-chiefs-mattis-kelly-mcmaster-a8524056.html

Stavros

09-06-2018, 05:40 PM

There is now a vibrant competition to name the Anonymous Author of the NYT Op-ed piece, with the BBC using linguistic analysis to narrow it down to Mike Pence, while the Telegraph via Canadian betting service Bovada has these odds:

Jeff Sessions 5/2
Mike Pence 3/1
John Kelly 4/1
Nikki Haley 10/1
'Javanka' 15/1
Don McGahn 15/1
the President himself 25/1
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/06/anonymous-trump-administration-official-runners-riders/

The BBC analysis points out that 'Senior Government Official' could be anyone from the White House to the Pentagon and beyond but concludes:

Compared with most of the official statements and speeches we analysed, the New York Times column had a distinctive style (again, some of this could be down to the editing process).

For a start, the average length of the sentences in the column is very low compared with government statements: only 19.3 words per sentence.

Compare this with statements by Press Secretary Sarah Sanders on Syria on 4 September (31 average words a sentence) and Mr Trump in a letter to the Senate on 28 August (30 words a sentence).

There is one Trump administration official whose statements and speeches are always shorter than the others - sometimes significantly.

His name is Michael Richard Pence, the vice-president of the United States of America, and on Thursday, he denied he was the author of the column (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45436243). Some had suggested he was responsible because the column used one unusual word - "lodestar" - he's been known to use.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45435813

buttslinger

09-14-2018, 09:27 PM

Every week has a new scandal or fuck-up, somewhere in the national group dynamic psychosis all these fumbles are counted and accounted for, I'm guessing that Mueller would only give Manafort a deal is because somebody down the road is going to get indicted without a deal (how ironic) and that person is Trump Trump Trump. Who else could it be?
What will happen if Trump and Sons INC. are cornered, will they fight back like a wounded animal? Will the RNC stick with him, will Rush Limbo stick with him? Even Trump's most loyal voters will have a moment of doubt and pain, but if they lose their Messiah, who's left? Pence? Jeb? Cruz?
If History is any guide, we're way overdue for WWlll, …..nevermind.

Stavros

09-15-2018, 06:38 AM

Week by week we edge closer to the big reveal. My guess is that the President will take actions to prevent any revelation of his finances, which is to him the most important component of his life other than his relentless obsession with himself as a truly great man, being so detached from reality. It is hard to know how far this will go or when it will take place. Bob Woodward in his book Fear seems to regard the 'collusion with Russia' as a non-story which is surprising in light of what we know so far, and also has not kept in mind Deep Throat's recommendation to 'Follow the Money'. Surely he must know where the money comes from, and wherher or not it is tainted, and used in the election campaign. And if he doesn't know, what does it say about his skills as an investigaive journalist?
In the end, if a man can make up stories about dead people in Puerto Rico who he claims do not exist, then anything that Mueller reveals will be dismissed as lies even if a jury convicts; he will probably claim the jury was nobbled or selected by the Clintons. As for Congress, it would not surprise me if the Republicans decide that even if their leader is revealed to be a crook, a liar, and a traitor, they would rather piss on the rule of law and the Constitution than see him impeached, having long ago given up any pretence that they love their country more than they hate Democrats. When John Bolton and Rudolph Giuliani can repeatedly appear on the platform of an Iranian terrorist organization that has a long and bloody history including many murdered Americans you know where their sympathies lie.

buttslinger

09-21-2018, 09:19 PM

War drums on the Potomac: New York Times article PROVES Deep State conspiracy against Trump. Rosenstein wears wire to get dirt on Trump! Fight back, Donald, fight back!! What more evidence do you need??
Trump is like a wounded animal backed into a corner. Very dangerous.

Stavros

09-22-2018, 04:59 AM

buttslinger

09-22-2018, 03:50 PM

The previous most powerful man in the World gave healthcare to millions, the present most powerful man gave two trillion bucks to has golf buddies, that's power. I would be the most powerful man in the World if it weren't for Reality, even if I don't believe in Reality, Reality believes in me, and even if Reality has taken a couple years off, Reality WILL wake up soon and VETO Trump, and probably his entire bloodline. The USA has been struggling for almost 75 years to prevent WWlll, Reality says we're way overdo, if History is any indicator, death always wins, so lets raise our glasses once more to this crappy little puddle called life, and vote for eternal life, is eternal life like the Devil, a fairy tale? Will Trump be destroyed by his own sins, or the Democratic Party? The Buddha will not entertain these questions unless they pertain directly to Salvation. Give a Junkie twenty bucks for a meal and that Junkie will buy heroin, give the citizens the right to vote, and they'll choose Trump and Brexit. The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Cheaters do prosper, for a while, anyway. Until I die, I can't write a proper review of life, yet here I am. Our total existence relies on Steven Grooby's quest for riches. Skoal!

buttslinger

09-22-2018, 04:01 PM

Fuck me, this site ate my post again and I mistakenly posted my rant here instead of there. I'm going to go eat some scrambled eggs with salsa and guacamole.

Stavros

09-22-2018, 09:46 PM

Buckle-up, Buttslinger, and take your meds.
America needs you alert, not incoherent.
There are hundreds of unfilled vacancies in Energy, Agriculture and State. Apply now.

buttslinger

09-23-2018, 03:01 AM

America needs you alert, not incoherent.

Thanks for the pep talk, but my Doctor says that is not medically possible. I wish I was kidding.
I will take your advice on the meds.

yodajazz

09-23-2018, 03:56 AM

Fuck me, this site ate my post again and I mistakenly posted my rant here instead of there. I'm going to go eat some scrambled eggs with salsa and guacamole.

I learned to always copy my post first, before I hit post. This site has a rather quick time, before automatic log out. Sometimes it will keep your post. Other times, it won't.

buttslinger

09-23-2018, 04:38 AM

I learned to always copy my post first,

Sheez, now I only have two buttons, Submit Reply and preview post!
This morning I copied, lost it, had to completely re-sign in, I had just woken up and hit Stavros' post, but I forgot Stavros had made two posts. If I can line up enough votes I'm going to claim it was Stavros' fault.
I used to be a good guy and do the right thing, but I didn't like the people there.

buttslinger

09-23-2018, 04:42 AM

now I have
Post Quick Reply
Go Advanced
and Cancel
Time for another trip to the medicine cabinet.

filghy2

09-24-2018, 04:37 AM

What rubbish is this? There is no 'deep state'. That this story is on the 'front page' of the NYT proves it.

Some Trump fans seem to think it's the deep state trying to provoke Trump into doing something rash. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/22/17889998/hannity-rosenstein-25th-amendment-trump-wire-nyt
I suspect their real agenda is to try to persuade Trump to not do anything risky until after the mid-terms.

buttslinger

09-24-2018, 03:31 PM

Some Trump fans seem to think it's the deep state trying to provoke Trump into doing something rash. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/22/17889998/hannity-rosenstein-25th-amendment-trump-wire-nyt
I suspect their real agenda is to try to persuade Trump to not do anything risky until after the mid-terms.

I still don't understand this one, if I had to guess I would say Hannity and his Confederates have been promising their viewers a major upheaval at the DOJ and FBI but Rosenstein told Trump exactly what he'd do if he tried it. No matter what they say, I smell the stink of fear from the Oval Office and Conservative Media.

buttslinger

09-26-2018, 02:44 AM

Hamlet: Rosenstein and Sessions are dead
Thursday will be must see TV, high drama in the Senate and White House, ….sex, power, ego, folly.
What fools these mortals be.
The stakes are high, if Trump can't get the grits their Evangelical Justice, then why support him? If Trump doesn't kill Sessions and Rosenstein, they will certainly be the death of him. Will Trump blink?

Meanwhile, the World Laughs at Trump. Did he really not expect that?
I feel a Tragedy coming on. To confirm or not to confirm, that is the question.
Even the Hung Angels crowd has to cringe at the sexual antics of a drunken jock virgin.
You can't write this stuff.

Stavros

09-26-2018, 10:36 AM

Even the Hung Angels crowd has to cringe at the sexual antics of a drunken jock virgin.
You can't write this stuff.

Kavanaugh claims he was a virgin, but being a virgin doesn't mean you cannot assault a woman. As to being one of the 'Renate Alumni' maybe this does not mean they all had sex with her, but that they jacked off to a photo and came all over it. I suppose you could call it Locker Room Spunk.

filghy2

09-27-2018, 03:47 AM

Meanwhile, the World Laughs at Trump.

Not on Fox News/Pravda
https://www.salon.com/2018/09/26/fox-news-edits-out-laughing-in-clips-of-trumps-speech-to-the-united-nations_partner/

buttslinger

09-27-2018, 04:31 AM

I am THRILLED that Fox News has wrapped it's legs around trump, and I'm thrilled at cautiously thrilled about Thursday.
In the NFL, when the other team hikes the ball over the quarterback's head, they're saying "he kavanaughed"

I should start selling Avenatti and Mueller silhouettes for target shooting, 10% off with NRA membership.
It's all coming unglued, Donald, your name will illicit laughter for centuries to come...…..
then again, you never know!

collinswriters

09-30-2018, 02:08 PM

Kavanaugh claims he was a virgin, but being a virgin doesn't mean you cannot assault a woman. As to being one of the 'Renate Alumni' maybe this does not mean they all had sex with her, but that they jacked off to a photo and came all over it. I suppose you could call it Locker Room Spunk.

So what if Kavanaugh is innocent?
Is there any evidence to prove he is guilty.
This is getting out of hand. Both had good sessions and nothing can be concluded from that. It's one's word against the other.
I don't know why we are pointing fingers when no evidence points to him. I know we all hate trump based on instinct, but let's not lose our minds and ability to think logically.

Stavros

09-30-2018, 03:03 PM

So what if Kavanaugh is innocent?
Is there any evidence to prove he is guilty.
This is getting out of hand. Both had good sessions and nothing can be concluded from that. It's one's word against the other.
I don't know why we are pointing fingers when no evidence points to him. I know we all hate trump based on instinct, but let's not lose our minds and ability to think logically.

Logic demands that a candidate for the Supreme Court answer questions on the law he will be expected to judge. Clarence Hill was appointed even when there was evidence his personal behaviour was insulting to women, but does anyone recall his views of the law? He said nothing for ten years. His wife is a TEA party lobbyist. He was and presumably still is opposed to same-sex marriage. His 'originalist' position on the Constitution is so rigid even Scalia called Thomas 'a nut'. So the issue with Kavanaugh is at its core his perspective on the law, and in particular his view on the limits of Presidential power, and whether or not a President can be, or indeed should be, prosecuted for crimes in the same way as an 'ordinary citizen'. And on the basis of the past, it seems that personal behaviour whether it is proven to be aggressive towards women or not, does not matter to the men who make these appointments. Not does it seem to matter when it comes to electing Presidents. Is it not ironic that the same men who make such bold and biblical claims about sexual morality in men and women apply those morals to every American excep the Head of State and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces? Not ironic at all, just hypocrisy.

buttslinger

09-30-2018, 04:54 PM

So what if Kavanaugh is innocent?
Is there any evidence to prove he is guilty.

When the FBI sits Kavanaugh down and asks him if he wants to take a lie detector test, like Ford did, he will give some bullshit Matt Damon SNL answer. You might as well give his seat to Sarah Huckabee Sanders, or Sean Hannity, fake Viagra peddler. He is as biased as you can get, that's why he's in the hot seat.

trish

09-30-2018, 05:27 PM

Thursday's hearing was a job interview, not a trial; reasonable doubt of guilt does not apply - reasonable doubt that Kavanaugh might lack the requisite judicial temperament does.

broncofan

09-30-2018, 06:09 PM

So what if Kavanaugh is innocent?
Is there any evidence to prove he is guilty.
This is getting out of hand. Both had good sessions and nothing can be concluded from that. It's one's word against the other.
I don't know why we are pointing fingers when no evidence points to him. I know we all hate trump based on instinct, but let's not lose our minds and ability to think logically.
The evidence that points to him is testimony. Testimony is evidence. Is it as strong as a video of him raping a woman? No. But a woman who had no motive to lie appeared before Congress and gave very credible testimony about him attacking her. She provided notes from her visits to psychiatrists over the years where she discussed the effects of his actions, which makes fabrication or political motive impossible. After she testified in a restrained and thoughtful way, he blustered, told several obvious lies, and was combative about his drinking. He is very fortunate that he has never had to answer for his actions in a criminal context.

And he did demonstrate a lack of fitness for the position. Instead of participating in the process, he pretended to be a victim, refused to answer questions in a forthright way and made spurious accusations.

I agree with Stavros that it is very difficult to vet these judges on how they view the law. If they are asked about a pending legal matter they will simply say they cannot answer questions about cases that may come before the court. So I suppose that leaves questions about their own cases, questions about judicial philosophy and questions about matters that have been decided (the latter just to demonstrate their erudition and knowledge of precedent). We have some idea that what we'd get with Kavanaugh is going to be originalism when it comes to constitutional matters and textualism when it comes to statutory interpretation. I think he would probably be less pragmatic even than Scalia and his decisions would look a bit more like Clarence Thomas', just based on his second amendment interpretation which is appalling.

buttslinger

09-30-2018, 07:32 PM

reasonable doubt that Kavanaugh might lack the requisite judicial temperament ....

TESTIFY TRISH!!!
Reasonable doubt, he was practically crying, and until Lindsey Graham rushed into save him, he was failing.
He was asked about Mark Judge and said "You'll have to ask him" Wrong answer, Brett.
The only reason we're having an FBI investigation is because two or three Republicans were going to vote NO.
NO to rapists. Kavanaugh's reputation hasn't been tarnished, Kavanaugh's beliefs have been tarnished under direct questioning. If Brett thinks he's been pressured, he should see what Collins and Murkowski will go through this week.

collinswriters

09-30-2018, 08:01 PM

As you can clearly see, your problem with him is not the allegation but what you stated above. You should refer to what you dislike instead of hiding behind the allegation and saying anything you feel. No offense pls.

collinswriters

09-30-2018, 08:22 PM

TESTIFY TRISH!!!
Reasonable doubt, he was practically crying, and until Lindsey Graham rushed into save him, he was failing.
He was asked about Mark Judge and said "You'll have to ask him" Wrong answer, Brett.
The only reason we're having an FBI investigation is because two or three Republicans were going to vote NO.
NO to rapists. Kavanaugh's reputation hasn't been tarnished, Kavanaugh's beliefs have been tarnished under direct questioning. If Brett thinks he's been pressured, he should see what Collins and Murkowski will go through this week.

You don't seem to understand what it means to present no evidence. I don't think someone has ever accused you falsely or wrongly. I am not saying Dr. Ford is lying, but come on, no evidence except your word? That makes no sense to me. I would like to believe ford but I am skeptical unlike you who believe blindly especially when it comes to politics and when no evidence is presented. Crazy world you wanna live in. No offense intended.

collinswriters

09-30-2018, 08:46 PM

The evidence that points to him is testimony. Testimony is evidence. Is it as strong as a video of him raping a woman? No. But a woman who had no motive to lie appeared before Congress and gave very credible testimony about him attacking her. She provided notes from her visits to psychiatrists over the years where she discussed the effects of his actions, which makes fabrication or political motive impossible. After she testified in a restrained and thoughtful way, he blustered, told several obvious lies, and was combative about his drinking. He is very fortunate that he has never had to answer for his actions in a criminal context.

And he did demonstrate a lack of fitness for the position. Instead of participating in the process, he pretended to be a victim, refused to answer questions in a forthright way and made spurious accusations.

I agree with Stavros that it is very difficult to vet these judges on how they view the law. If they are asked about a pending legal matter they will simply say they cannot answer questions about cases that may come before the court. So I suppose that leaves questions about their own cases, questions about judicial philosophy and questions about matters that have been decided (the latter just to demonstrate their erudition and knowledge of precedent). We have some idea that what we'd get with Kavanaugh is going to be originalism when it comes to constitutional matters and textualism when it comes to statutory interpretation. I think he would probably be less pragmatic even than Scalia and his decisions would look a bit more like Clarence Thomas', just based on his second amendment interpretation which is appalling.

Let's not be ridiculous here. No possible motive? Testimony (in this case) is not evidence in any manner of means. It's just testimony and you need necessary evidence (proof beyond doubt) to backup the testimony. If every allegation in the world was only backed with testimony from the victim without knowledge of details like where the crime happened and specific time, about half (if not more) of the world's population would be in jail now. The witnesses she mentioned all denied such event and we are to just take the story as the truth. That's ludicrous in my opinion.
And let's not forget, this is in a political setting. People say or do whatever they can to get rid of their opposition (or those they dislike for one reason or the other). I am not implying that Dr. Ford is lying or wrong and I am not saying that Kavanaugh is saying the truth (He could be saying the truth since no substantial evidence points to him) but as I said in a previous reply, I am being skeptical.

collinswriters

09-30-2018, 08:52 PM

Logic demands that a candidate for the Supreme Court answer questions on the law he will be expected to judge. Clarence Hill was appointed even when there was evidence his personal behaviour was insulting to women, but does anyone recall his views of the law? He said nothing for ten years. His wife is a TEA party lobbyist. He was and presumably still is opposed to same-sex marriage. His 'originalist' position on the Constitution is so rigid even Scalia called Thomas 'a nut'. So the issue with Kavanaugh is at its core his perspective on the law, and in particular his view on the limits of Presidential power, and whether or not a President can be, or indeed should be, prosecuted for crimes in the same way as an 'ordinary citizen'. And on the basis of the past, it seems that personal behaviour whether it is proven to be aggressive towards women or not, does not matter to the men who make these appointments. Not does it seem to matter when it comes to electing Presidents. Is it not ironic that the same men who make such bold and biblical claims about sexual morality in men and women apply those morals to every American excep the Head of State and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces? Not ironic at all, just hypocrisy.

As you can clearly see, your problem with him is not the allegation but what you stated above. You should refer to what you dislike instead of hiding behind the allegation and saying anything you feel. No offense pls.

this message is a reply to stravos' comment

CD_Sasha

09-30-2018, 10:22 PM

When the FBI sits Kavanaugh down and asks him if he wants to take a lie detector test, like Ford did, he will give some bullshit Matt Damon SNL answer. You might as well give his seat to Sarah Huckabee Sanders, or Sean Hannity, fake Viagra peddler. He is as biased as you can get, that's why he's in the hot seat.

Um.. you do realize he's been vetted by the feds 6 times since 1992 right? And the timing of the allegations, it's a clear political move of character assassination and to delay the process. If you don't see this, then you have no logic. No facts = No evidence. Looks like innocent until proven guilty does not exist in America anymore.

buttslinger

10-01-2018, 12:10 AM

Um.. you do realize he's been vetted by the feds 6 times since 1992 right? And the timing of the allegations, it's a clear political move of character assassination and to delay the process. If you don't see this, then you have no logic. No facts = No evidence. Looks like innocent until proven guilty does not exist in America anymore.

The Republicans were blocking the search for evidence, that's the whole point.
If that was an interview for a Republican pawn in the Supreme Court, Kavanaugh aced it. If it were an interview for an independent nonpartisan decider of the future of U S Law, he failed miserably. He is the most unpopular Supreme Court nominee ever. That's not my opinion, that's the truth. Kavanaugh was picked by Ken Starr to be in charge of the character assassination of Bill Clinton. He opened the door.

If I were accused of rape I'd scream too. I'd scream for a lie detector test.

CD_Sasha

10-01-2018, 01:03 AM

Kavanaugh was picked by Ken Starr to be in charge of the character assassination of Bill Clinton.

Nope, Bill did it to himself by lying under oath, lying to the American people and was ultimately impeached. No one else is to blame on that.

filghy2

10-01-2018, 01:20 AM

Turning to other matters, what exactly did happen in the closed session with Kim Jong Un when there were no officials in the room? You Trump nutters don't find this just a little embarassing?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/trump-says-he-and-kim-fell-in-love/ar-BBNJIp2?ocid=spartanntp

filghy2

10-01-2018, 01:58 AM

Um.. you do realize he's been vetted by the feds 6 times since 1992 right? And the timing of the allegations, it's a clear political move of character assassination and to delay the process. If you don't see this, then you have no logic. No facts = No evidence. Looks like innocent until proven guilty does not exist in America anymore.

Evidently three Republican senators don't agree with you - or are they part of the same conspiracy? Why exactly is it so critical not to delay the confirmation process? Republicans were quite happy to leave a vacancy for almost a year in 2016.

Aside from the sexual assault allegations, Kavanaugh should be disqualified because of his record of extreme views, including on the immunity of the president from investigation. Strangely, he came to this view only after working on the Starr investigation. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/09/04/kavanaugh-trump-mueller-executive-power-219634
If you believe that has nothing to do with why Trump nominated him then I have a sure-fire investment opportunity for you with a friend in Nigeria.

CD_Sasha

10-01-2018, 02:39 AM

buttslinger

10-01-2018, 03:40 AM

Are you all in agreement that the Ford allegations are real? Or is she used as a political motive for something else? I wonder what will be everyone's reaction if the FBI investigation comes back with clearing his name. I bet the opposition party won't apologize and will drop Dr. Ford like she never existed.

Mark Judge's book make Ford's charges credible. Kavanaugh's yearbook make Ford credible. Kavanaugh's roommate in College make Ford credible. It should be VERY interesting what Kavanaugh's own friends say when locked in a room with a couple of seasoned FBI interrogators. All those guys who flipped on Trump were his biggest supporters until the FBI explained the facts of life to them. I believe Clinton's accusers, I believe Trump's accusers, and I believe Kavanaugh's accusers. Just between you and me, I believe Brett is less of a rapist than a complete and total asshole when he's drunk. Somewhere on those FBI background checks they asked him if he had a drinking problem. If he said no he has a self awareness problem.

The Senate is supposed to be political. The Supreme Court is not. If the nominee needed 60 votes to be confirmed, like it should be, we would have never heard the name Brett Kavanaugh.

filghy2

10-01-2018, 04:34 AM

It should be VERY interesting what Kavanaugh's own friends say when locked in a room with a couple of seasoned FBI interrogators.

That's assuming the FBI is allowed to question them - it seems the former classmates who've contradicted his drinking claims are not on the witness list they've been given. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/white-house-limits-scope-fbi-s-investigation-allegations-against-brett-n915061

If CD_Sasha thinks it was appropriate for Bill Clinton to be impeached for lying under oath then clearly Kavanagh should be disqualified if he did the same thing.

broncofan

10-01-2018, 06:27 AM

I can’t reply fully because I’m on my phone but collinswriter why don’t you type into google “is testimony evidence?”. You begin with the meaningless sentence that it’s not evidence in this case.

Testimony is evidence in every case. In cases where the defense to a charge of rape is that there was consensual sex rather than force it is often the only dispositive evidence. In such cases the outcome hinges not on physical evidence but witness testimony. One can reach the burden of proof in a criminal case on testimony alone and withstand appeal. I’ve read dozens of such appeals.

You also need an entire course on procedural due process, including what safeguards apply and where. I’ll give you a hint: the greater the deprivation being faced the more robust the procedures must be to prevent an unjust deprivation. It is not a criminal trial. Kavanaugh is not facing prison and so constitutionally he is not being treated inappropriately. What you call skepticism I call poorly done sophistry. It requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt to subject someone to criminal sanction, not to rule on whether they are an unfit appointment to Supreme Court.

As for cd Sasha’s why would perjury be worth impeachment but not preclude someone from serving as a judge?

Stavros

10-01-2018, 07:53 AM

this message is a reply to stravos' comment

I am not hiding behind the allegation, on which I have not taken a position one way or the other. In fact the allegations of sexual assault have deflected attention away from the core issues I have referred to which is Kavanaugh's positions on matters of law. If you compare the Senate hearings of Kavanaugh with those of Neil Gorsuch, you find that the issues were legal not personal, and the extreme positions that Gorsuch took on matters such as Birth Control and LGBT rights, as per the Vox list produced at the time (in the link below) which do not reflect public opinion.

Re cd-sasha's comment: Had the Democrats from the start decided to sabotage every Supreme Court nomination, why did they not pay an ex-or current hooker to claim Gorsuch as a client or any other lurid tale you can make up which is what the President's supporters claim Dr Ford has been recruited (and paid) to do?

It is hypocrisy because the roll-call of morals that the Republicans claim to be part of the fabric of American life in reality are applied to some people not others, and guess who gets the free pass? At least Mrs Pence has the decency of her convinctions to refuse any interaction with the President, apparently she won't even shake his hand.

It seems to me that the Supreme Court appointments are part of a deliberate attempt by the Republican Party to deny to the majority of Americans what it is that they want: they want women to receive the benefits of Planned Parenthood because it works -unwanted pregnancies are down, cervical cancer screenings are up and saving women's lives, and contraception, contrary to what some of the President's supporters claim, does work.

Americans want to vote, they don't want registration to cost them time and money and deter them from registering at all, and States -all States- should ensure every citizen is registered and that a polling station on election day is open within a mile of where they live -you can't tell me this is not possible in the USA in the 21st century. Ultimately, it is about rights, which has been the foundation of your Constitutional Republic, and whether or not any of the three branches of government should be taking rights away, or extending them. No surpise that Republicans tend to take rights away, rather than extend them.

https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/blog/the-people-vs-neil-gorsuch

CD_Sasha

10-01-2018, 01:13 PM

buttslinger

10-01-2018, 08:39 PM

CD_Sasha

10-01-2018, 09:22 PM

+
Even if the FBI found 17 credible accusations of sexual misconduct against Kavanaugh the Republicans could confirm him, if Democrats are up in arms it's because Kavanaugh isn't going to be just one seat on the Supreme Court, he will be the swing vote that will make the Supreme Court a rubber stamp on the Republican agenda. If you think the Republicans are drunk on power now, wait until they start sending case after case to their very own Kangaroo Court.

Your responses are very emotional and very bias. Nothing I've responded to is being bias and simply stating there's always 2 sides to everything. If evidence is found to hold allegations true, then Kavanaugh shouldn't be nominated as SCOTUS. If allegations don't hold true, then Dr. Ford should be locked up for defamation. The American people (like me) see this as a political hit based on the timing and Democrats promise to "resist" anything Trump does. But this one goes too far and I'm willing to bet Democrats with common sense can see this too. We'll see what happens after this is over.

broncofan

10-01-2018, 09:39 PM

Your responses are very emotional and very bias. Nothing I've responded to is being bias and simply stating there's always 2 sides to everything. If evidence is found to hold allegations true, then Kavanaugh shouldn't be nominated as SCOTUS. If allegations don't hold true, then Dr. Ford should be locked up for defamation. The American people (like me) see this as a political hit based on the timing and Democrats promise to "resist" anything Trump does. But this one goes too far and I'm willing to bet Democrats with common sense can see this too. We'll see what happens after this is over.
First, nobody can get locked up for defamation because it's not a crime, it's a civil action. Second of all, just because something is not proven true doesn't mean it's established to be false. Think about it. Third, there's nothing suspicious about the timing. He was being appointed to the Supreme Court so she felt she had a responsibility to come forward. Often people who have been sexually assaulted are not able to come forward at all. Failing to report is not rare nor is it suspicious.

In your previous post to me you use the phrase "word of mouth". Word of mouth means a rumor. Often people also use the word hearsay as well to mean something it doesn't mean. Dr. Ford testified under oath about what she personally experienced. That's not word of mouth or hearsay, but in person testimony given under penalty of perjury.

As I said before, this is often the only evidence that is offered in rape trials. How else do you think rape is proven if a man claims he and the accuser had sex but it was consensual? The presence of semen might show there was intercourse but doesn't speak to the issue of consent. Sometimes there is genital trauma, which again the accused can claim is the result of a consensual encounter where the putative victim "liked it rough". The testimony is decisive in many cases, is sometimes the only evidence that exists, and is often enough by itself to sustain a burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which is not even what is required here.

Beyond that, even if it were a criminal trial juries are considered experts in evaluating the credibility of witnesses and what weight to give to testimony. That's what people who evaluate evidence do. They listen to witnesses and if someone provides and internally consistent account, they might decide to give it more weight than someone who told several lies under oath, tried to evade questions by attacking his interlocutors, and seemed unable to control himself. Kavanaugh is lucky he will never be tried in a criminal court for this.

I said I find it very unlikely Dr. Ford fabricated an accusation given that she spoke to a psychiatrist in 2012. I'm not sure what you think happened, but I watched the testimony and it didn't sound like someone who had an axe to grind but rather someone whose life has been altered by trauma. That was my take based on listening.

CD_Sasha

10-01-2018, 10:09 PM

broncofan

10-01-2018, 10:27 PM

Take a step back and tell me you don't see a similar pattern before any nomination. Happened to Trump, Roy Moore and now this judge. Why does it always happen RIGHT before any major nomination? You can't be that gullable and oblivious. And listening to what? Liberal news media who always paint Republicans and conservatives as "evil"? What happened to the previous accusers regarding Trump and Roy Moore? Why did the news stopped following their case? Because the plan failed (to stop Trump becoming President) or worked (Roy Moore stepped down)? I'm surprised no one ever questions that except independent thinkers who aren't swayed by a narrative.
I don't doubt there are some people motivated by politics rather than the underlying issues, but that doesn't mean the issue raised doesn't have merit. I thought the Republicans who attacked Bill Clinton did not care about sexual assault and we've seen they don't care about perjury, but that doesn't mean he didn't do what he was accused of in many of those cases. Roy Moore was kicked out of a mall for preying on children. He came onto and fondled a minor. This was fairly well established and while he refused to step down and the Republican party continued to support him, Al Franken stepped down for several transgressions that were not nearly as severe. He was a Democrat. He did not have widespread support in the Democratic party when women starting coming forward saying he groped them. Yet Republicans who face dozens of accusations of sexual assault are somehow assumed to be the victims of a "smear campaign". Similar fringe figures believe that the sandy hook shooting was a government hoax and that Hillary Clinton had children in the dungeon of a pizza shop.

Why does the media stop following the cases? Because as time passes and the Republican party continues to support men with dozens of credible accusations against them, they realize there's nothing left to report.

What you are describing is not independent thought. All sorts of nutjobs and conspiracy theorists consider themselves independent thinkers. What they're missing is the ability to use common sense. If someone did not report an assault because they were afraid of going to the police then they feel especially motivated to come forward as soon as their assailant runs for office. Why? Because they're reminded of the trauma and believe they can speak to the person's unfitness for office. Does that mean every accusation should be assumed to be true per se? No, but you can actually listen to the people who come forward and not engage in conspiratorial thinking.

broncofan

10-01-2018, 10:36 PM

And just as a final point. Al Franken is a Democrat who faced an initial complaint that he was sexually aggressive with a woman. Within a week or two, many women came forward to report similar experiences. Does that mean it was fabricated? Why did they all come forward at the same time? Probably because they were encouraged by other women coming forward to share their experiences. There doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

CD_Sasha

10-01-2018, 10:44 PM

What you are describing is not independent thought. All sorts of nutjobs and conspiracy theorists consider themselves independent thinkers. What they're missing is the ability to use common sense

Not a conspiracy when you question as to why there's no evidence for conviction (yes, there's a difference between conviction and allegations). Common sense is thinking evidence = true facts. Ahh forget it, I guess we must believe all accusers because they're women but not believe in due process.. got it. I'll follow the rest of the flock on this illogical way of thinking.

buttslinger

10-01-2018, 10:57 PM

CD_Sasha

10-01-2018, 11:03 PM

Your responses are very emotional and very bias. Passionate I haven't called you a dimwit yet
Nothing I've responded to is being bias and simply stating there's always 2 sides to everything. Not attempted rape
If evidence is found to hold allegations true, then Kavanaugh shouldn't be nominated as SCOTUS. No shit
If allegations don't hold true, then Dr. Ford should be locked up for defamation. Bust up that lie detector while you're at it
The American people (like me) see this as a political hit based on the timing and Democrats promise to "resist" anything Trump does. About 48 percent of voters do not want Kavanaugh to be confirmed, compared with 42 percent who do.
But this one goes too far and I'm willing to bet Democrats with common sense can see this too. Turn off Fox News and find a shrink who deprograms cult members
We'll see what happens after this is over. You mean the Mueller Investigation??

Oh please, you're acting like anyone who thinks different "must be following Fox News!". You're acting like Libertarians aren't laughing at the Democrats being so obvious using rape allegations as their last tactic to obstruct. We're just soo baffled how easily fooled the liberals are. But ok, I won't respond anymore. Until I see EVIDENCE that leads to a conviction against Kavanaugh, then I'll agree.

trish

10-02-2018, 12:01 AM

Before the hearing last Thursday, my biggest beefs against Kavanaugh were 1) his position on Roe vs Wade, 2) his position that an President can’t be indicted and 3) his action in Garza v. Hargan in which he unconscionably made a immigrant wait seven weeks before she was allowed to go through with an abortion.

And of course there was the possibility that Kavanaugh’s behavior as a young man thirty-five years prior was less than exemplary.

After the hearing it became clear to me that Kavanaough’s behavior, not only as a young man, but throughout his life and in the hearing itself was and is less than exemplary. Whether or not the allegations against him are true, he has shown himself to be 4) a liar and 5) a crazed conspiracy theorist. He has demonstrated 6) an inability to control his anger, his rancor, and 7) his biases against women and liberal colleagues. He has shown us 8, a temperament thoroughly unfitting for a Supreme Court Justice, or any sort of justice for that matter.

Yes, I would like to have a full FBI investigation into his character and the allegations against him raised by the women and associates that knew or know him. Not only the allegations of sexual misconduct, but allegations that he is a drunk and that he’s belligerent when drunk. But for me, in light of (1), (2), (3) now (4), (5), (6), (7) and 8 Kavanaugh should never have been appointed to U.S. Court of Appeals, let alone be appointed to the Supreme Court.

Stavros

10-02-2018, 01:13 AM

Take a step back and tell me you don't see a similar pattern before any nomination. Happened to Trump, Roy Moore and now this judge. Why does it always happen RIGHT before any major nomination? You can't be that gullable and oblivious. And listening to what? Liberal news media who always paint Republicans and conservatives as "evil"? What happened to the previous accusers regarding Trump and Roy Moore? Why did the news stopped following their case? Because the plan failed (to stop Trump becoming President) or worked (Roy Moore stepped down)? I'm surprised no one ever questions that except independent thinkers who aren't swayed by a narrative.

This is simply a distortion of the record. There is a list (a long list) of the President's nominees who withdrew their names
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Donald_Trump_nominees_who_have_withdrawn

but in most cases the President's nominees have not been accused of crimes or misdemeanors in the manner that Brett Kavanaugh has been. And Roy Moore was not nominated by the President.

Neil Gorsuch, Betsy de Vos, Rex Tillerson, Ben Carson, Rick Perry, Nikki Haley, Steve Mnuchin, Wilbur Ross, Scott Pruit, John Bolton, etc -none of them accused, all of them appointed. The one person without portfolio about whom allegations have been made for some time is his son-in-law Jared Kushner who, along with his wife was relieved not to be prosecuted for deception in New York some years ago in a case where it is beieved the prosecutor treated them with extreme lenience.

But there was one person who did have a dubious background, serious enough for President Obama in their private meeting in the White House to warn his successor not to hire him: Michael Flynn. Needless to say the incoming President, probably out of spite, did precisely that and hired Flynn as National Security Advisor but he lasted barely a month before resigning. It was the sign that the President is a man of poor judgement.

buttslinger

10-02-2018, 02:59 AM

If Republicans are mad that Democrats don't like Brett just because he's a Republican, they are exactly right. The Kavanaugh pick was ONE HUNDRED PERCENT POLITICAL.
The FBI needs to investigate Trump.
(Oh, that's right. They are)
PAYBACK is gonna be a bitch.
1097469

filghy2

10-02-2018, 03:50 AM

Oh please, you're acting like anyone who thinks different "must be following Fox News!". You're acting like Libertarians aren't laughing at the Democrats being so obvious using rape allegations as their last tactic to obstruct. We're just soo baffled how easily fooled the liberals are. But ok, I won't respond anymore. Until I see EVIDENCE that leads to a conviction against Kavanaugh, then I'll agree.

Classic. Keep repeating the same point over and over and ignore what other people say in response. Claim that you are really independent-minded even though the only comments you ever make are arguing for one side. Declare that you are through with the discussion when you are getting the worst of it. Where have we seen that before? Do all of you people go to the same debating classes?

Why can't you answer this simple question - If it was appropriate for Bill Clinton to be impeached for one instance of perjury then why shouldn't Brett Kavanaugh be disqualified if he is found to have lied in his testimony?

collinswriters

10-02-2018, 02:39 PM

No offense, but there's no hope for many people here.
You are looking for all possible means to paint Kavanaugh as bad. Not being exemplary? If he was a Democrat, I bet he would have been a role model to all of you.
Someone said Fox news. What's wrong with Fox news? They support Trump? What about other media? Have they not all supported Democrats and, even became Obama's ass-lickers?
Some of you make good points but for some, no sense. If Kavanaugh doesn't support your cause, I see no problem there. You guys want to police how people think and, behave and anyone against it is an enemy of the people. I don't see Republicans pushing for that. You guys pretend like there's no logic behind what Republicans do. You think you are the only ones that have the ability to reason?
And you guys are the ones saying that we must believe all women just because they are women. Is that even logical at all? How will you believe a particular gender no matter what? Women lie anyhow they like and so do men. We are humans, let's not pretend like women are holy. Some women are good and, some are not. Same applies to the men as well.
Some of you even believe all men are rapists, misogynistic, homophobic and all (this is now a popular line amongst Democrats).
They no longer think for themselves, they need people to think for them as a group. You ask many people why they hate Trump, some have absolutely no idea and, some of them recite the popular line. Some just make claims to paint him as the worst person in recorded history.

trish

10-02-2018, 03:36 PM

Supreme Court nominees should be exemplary. The standards should be high.
Kavanaugh’s performance during the hearing was an example the opposite of judicial temperament and an example of how not to behave during a job interview. He’s certainly no role model for anybody, conservative or liberal.

Opposing a nominee because you disagree with his ideology is not even close to “policing how people think” (that’s Fox News’ job). And yes I mentioned three points of judicial disagreement that predisposed me against Kavanaugh. I do, on occasion, try to persuade people in conversation to those points. I don’t police. In the words of Kavanaugh, “Do you?”
But the remaining five points I previously mentioned were to his emotional and mental fitness to be a Supreme Court Justice. In my judgement he failed to demonstrate a relatively unbiased, reasoned and sound temperament which I would expect of a Supreme Court Justice regardless of their politics or gender.

Not all claims by all women are true as some would maliciously interpret the motto, “believe women”. Not all persons standing trial are innocent, in spite of the motto,”innocent until proven...” Yet, I don’t see anyone here but you attempting to saddle the whole with the unreasonable assumptions of the few. Professor Ford’s testimony was credible, but not decisive. Kavanaugh’s testimony was, in the words of President Trump, “incredible” and he left us with more doubts than we had before the hearing.

broncofan

10-02-2018, 05:01 PM

Does that mean every accusation should be assumed to be true per se? No, but you can actually listen to the people who come forward and not engage in conspiratorial thinking.
Collinswriter, perhaps you aren't reading what people have said. I wrote this on the last page. I wrote on another thread that I don't believe decades old rape charges should be prosecuted in criminal court. Accusations made under oath at a confirmation hearing should be listened to and the credibility of the parties based on their demonstrated conduct should be taken into careful consideration. Dr. Ford conducted herself with poise and testified thoughtfully. Kavanaugh showed bad judgment and was belligerent.

Due process comes from the 5th and 14th amendments to our Constitution. It may have a colloquial meaning, but it should also be understood to have a particular domain of application. Someone who is applying for a position does not have a vested property right. On the other hand, someone who is fired from a public position for an impropriety is often entitled to due process. The due process in that hearing would not look anything like the due process someone is entitled to before facing a criminal punishment. This is not a scholarly site but does give a short summary of the issue. https://employment.findlaw.com/wages-and-benefits/how-does-due-process-protect-a-public-employee.html

I have several issues with Kavanaugh's judicial philosophy but they are not issues I would not have with other candidates so I don't oppose his nomination on that basis. I would like to hear him speak more about the issue of the appointment of special counsel and whether he thinks the special counsel statute is constitutional. I think it's terrible that there's a good chance he would overturn Obergefell and Roe, and that he thinks assault weapons are protected by the second amendment. That this follows from his judicial philosophy and that there are many other potential appointments with similar views I'm certain of. I'm more concerned by the fact that he doesn't respect an oath, that he is pretty much as Trish described him and it should be disqualifying.

buttslinger

10-02-2018, 05:17 PM

If the Truth is ugly enough, people will prefer lies. Fox News isn't a Democrat problem, it's a United States problem.

broncofan

10-02-2018, 05:24 PM

Stavros

10-03-2018, 01:33 AM

Collinswriters can speak for himself but I think maybe he thinks the reaction to Kavanaugh has become hysterical rather than rational, and that his President is much the issue as Kavanaugh himself. I am not in the US so don't feel the full force of this, except to say that it seems to me this is how Americans are reacting, and that anyone who is placed into the public arena by this President must expect to become a ball in a game to be kicked from one side to the other. Kavanaugh appears to have been a poor choice, and may pay the price for it. Does it matter? There are plenty conservative judges to take his place.

Stavros

10-03-2018, 02:51 AM

The Telegraph is the voice of English Conservatism, even known in some circles as the 'Torygraph'. Ambrose Evans Prichard has been writing for the paper for decades indeed, was Washington Bureau correspondent, and has written this article on Brett Kavanaugh (can you believe this jerk actually met Queen Elizabeth?) which starts-

Twenty-three years ago I crossed swords with a younger Brett Kavanaugh in one of the weirdest and most disturbing episodes of my career as a journalist.
What happened leaves me in no doubt that he lacks judicial character and is unfit to serve on the US Supreme Court for the next thirty years or more, whatever his political ideology.

It continues (in case the Telegraph hide this later behind their pay-wall)

To my surprise, the incident has suddenly become a second front in his nomination saga on Capitol Hill. Senator Dianne Feinstein, the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, has accused him of violating secrecy laws by revealing the details of a federal grand jury.
“Disclosing grand jury information is against the law,” she told Politico. She said it also showed he had misled the Senate (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/26/kavanaugh-confirmation-starr-vince-foster-842530) by assuring categorically that he had never leaked grand jury material to journalists.
Sen Feinstein released a ‘smoking gun’ document from the archive files of the Starr investigation. It shows Mr Kavanaugh’s efforts to suppress a news story (https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000166-13e9-d20d-a57f-97f9ee650000) about his wild cross-examination of a witness, including a wayward discussion of “genitalia” that particularly worried him.
This piqued my interest since I am named in the document and the witness – Patrick Knowlton – was in a sense ‘my witness’.
Sen Feinstein is doubtless unaware of the larger, surreal story behind that week, and what it might suggest about rogue operations at the heart of the US federal system.

The document is one of hundreds of papers released by the US National Archives this year. For me it has been a strange journey back in time, like reading your old STASI file in East Berlin. There is one handwritten note by a Starr prosecutor stating – obliquely – “Ambrose about to go off the deep end”. OK, nobody is perfect.
There were debriefing memos of clandestine meetings I had with federal agents and prosecutors. One from Shoney’s restaurant in Little Rock, Arkansas; another from a dinner at the Occidental Grill in Washington (my old haunt).
Mr Knowlton had been called to the grand jury because of a story in the Telegraph. Little did I know then that I was about to turn this brave man’s life upside down.
He was a crime scene witness in the death of Vincent Foster, the White House aide and ex-law partner of Hillary Clinton. At the time this was a mystery case, a big story during my tenure as the Sunday Telegraph’s bureau chief in Washington.
I had tracked down Mr Knowlton and discovered that the Starr probe had never spoken to him, even though he had been the first person at the Fort Marcy death location and had highly-relevant information.
I showed him his FBI ‘302’ witness statement from the earlier, superficial Fiske probe. He had never seen the words attributed to him before.
Mr Knowlton was stunned. It contradicted his express assertions. He said the FBI had tried repeatedly to badger him into changing his story on key facts. Each time he refused. Now it appeared they had written in what they wanted to hear. He agreed to go public and accused the FBI of falsifying his witness statement. This was to court trouble.
As soon as the print edition of the Telegraph reached Washington, the Starr investigation issued a subpoena calling Mr Knowlton to the grand jury. He was to face questioning by Brett Kavanaugh.

Mr Kavanaugh was then a cocky 30 year-old from the affluent WASP suburbs of Northwest Washington, very much the country club boy with a high sense of his status, and Georgetown Prep and Yale Law School behind him, though only with a humdrum Cum Laude. If anybody was going to wind up my hard-scrabble, salt-of-America witness, it was this child of privilege.
What happened first was an eye-opener. Before testifying, he suffered two days of what appeared to be systematic intimidation by a large surveillance team. This was observed by two other witnesses, including Chris Ruddy, now the powerful chief executive of NewsMax.
Mr Ruddy called me in shock from Dupont Circle to recount what he saw. A deeply-shaken Mr Knowlton contacted me from his home several times, until his phone was cut off.

Veteran intelligence agents might recognise a method. It had the hallmarks of a boilerplate softening-up operation. In my view – unprovable – the objective was to frighten him before his grand jury appearance. It smacked of police state behaviour on the streets of Washington DC.
I informed Mr Starr’s office that their grand jury witness was being intimidated. So did Mr Knowlton’s lawyer, who asked for witness protection. Nothing was done. Mr Kavanaugh brushed it off, saying the Telegraph was behind all this mischief in order to “sell newspapers”.
When Mr Knowlton appeared at the grand jury – thinking he was doing his civic duty – he says he was subjected to two and a half hours of character assassination by Mr Kavanaugh. There was little attempt to find out what he knew about the Foster death scene.
Could it be that the witness was distraught and imagined much of this? Possibly. But Mr Knowlton and his lawyer later filed a federal lawsuit against FBI agents he claimed were working for Brett Kavanaugh (https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/111/1/2562129/), alleging witness tampering and a conspiracy to violate his civil rights. This eventually reached the US District Court in Washington DC. The quixotic case was impossible to prove. Yet it was the action of a man who clearly felt wronged. To this day he blames Mr Kavanaugh personally.

Thousands of documents from the Starr probe are still secret. Others are redacted. It is impossible to know whether Mr Kavanaugh was linked to any intimidation or obstruction of justice, but there is no doubt in my mind that he failed to protect the rights of his own grand jury witness.
This is not the place to revisit the Foster case, the electric third rail of US politics. But it is worth noting two points that touch on Mr Kavanaugh.
Few people are aware that the US federal prosecutor handling the death investigation at the outset, Miquel Rodriguez, had resigned earlier from the Starr investigation after a bitter dispute.
His resignation letter (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/kavanaugh/releases/docid-70105792.pdf) – later leaked – said he was prevented from pursuing investigative leads (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/kavanaugh/releases/docid-70105792.pdf), that FBI witness statements did not reflect what witnesses had said, that the suicide verdict was premature, and that his grand jury probe was shut down just as he was beginning to uncover evidence. An informed source told me his work had been sabotaged by his own FBI agents.

The nub of the dispute was over compelling evidence of a wound in Foster’s neck, which contradicted the official version that Foster shot himself in the mouth and had essentially been suppressed. The key crime scene photos had vanished and the FBI labs said others were over-exposed and useless.
Mr Rodriguez, by then suspicious, slipped them to the Smithsonian Institution and had them enhanced. One showed a black stippled ring like a gunshot wound in the side of Foster’s neck. This remains secret but I have seen it.
The photo was pivotal. It confirmed what several people who handled the body had originally stated. I interviewed the first rescue worker on the scene and when I asked him about the mouth wound, he grabbed me, and said with frightening intensity: “listen to me buddy, Foster was shot right here,” jabbing his finger into my neck. He said the FBI had pressured him too into changing his story and that official narrative was a pack of lies.
Mr Kavanaugh’s reaction to the findings of his colleague can be found in the stash of released documents from the Starr inquiry (https://www.archives.gov/files/research/kavanaugh/releases/docid-70105786.pdf). One says in his hand-written notes: “startling discovery”, “blew up portions of photo – trauma to the neck on rt side”, “appears to be bullet hole”.
He was presented with a long analysis by Rodriguez that ripped apart the earlier Fiske report and called for an open homicide investigation. This had huge implications for the Clinton presidency and caused an internal crisis in the Starr office. A decision was made to shut down that part of probe. Miquel Rodriguez said he was “forced out”. It was the end of the only genuine probe of the Foster death – conducted under oath – that had ever occurred.
Mr Kavanaugh faced a choice. He chose to go with the establishment rather than stick up for his colleague. This proved good for his career. He took over the grand jury, by then a legacy showpiece. His treatment of my witness revealed his colours.

Mr Kavanaugh went on to write the Starr Report on the Foster death. But Mr Knowlton got the last word, literally. He filed a 511-page report at the US Federal Court with evidence alleging a pattern of skullduggery, and asked that it be attached to the Starr Report (https://www.archives.gov/research/investigations/kavanaugh).
The three top judges did not agree but they ordered that a shorter 20-page version be attached (http://www.fbicover-up.com/ewExternalFiles/Order%20Evidence%20included.pdf) at the end, despite vehement protest from the Starr office. This had never happened before in the history of the office of the independent council.
This summary asserts that the FBI had “concealed the true facts”, that there had been witness tampering, and that the report had wilfully ignored facts that refuted its own conclusions. There it sits in perpetuity, a strange rebuke for Mr Kavanaugh by his own fellow judges on the federal bench.
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard was the Sunday Telegraph’s Washington Bureau Chief from 1992 to 1997
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/my-battle-brett-kavanaugh-over-truth-ambrose-evans-pritchard/

filghy2

10-03-2018, 06:54 AM

You guys want to police how people think and, behave and anyone against it is an enemy of the people. I don't see Republicans pushing for that.
You guys pretend like there's no logic behind what Republicans do. You think you are the only ones that have the ability to reason?
And you guys are the ones saying that we must believe all women just because they are women. Some of you even believe all men are rapists, misogynistic, homophobic and all (this is now a popular line amongst Democrats).
They no longer think for themselves, they need people to think for them as a group.

Nice diatribe. Must have been very satisfying for you, especially with applause from the fearless types in the peanut gallery. But who actually said those things?

I don't suppose you realise how ironic it is that you use the term 'enemy of the people', which Trump has applied to any media that criticise him. If Republicans are such free-thinkers perhaps you could give us a list of those who don't think tax cuts for the rich are a panacea for every economic problem, who think that something should be done to control guns or that climate change is a problem requiring government action. Perhaps you could explain why Republican attitudes on free trade and Russia have done an about-turn since Trump.

The logic behind what Republicans do is unfortunately depressingly clear:
1. Use temporary control of the three arms of government to lock in a conservative majority in the Supreme Court and undermine government programs such as Obamacare.
2. Use control of the majority of states to tilt the electoral system in their favour through gerrymandering and voter suppression.
3. Use white christian identity politics to attract white working class support, while masking the real agenda of redistribution toward the rich.
4. Undermine independent sources of information such as the free media and expert analysis, while relying on tame media sources to hide the truth and spread misinformation.

buttslinger

10-03-2018, 07:52 PM

collinswriters

10-05-2018, 08:06 AM

If the Truth is ugly enough, people will prefer lies. Fox News isn't a Democrat problem, it's a United States problem.

There's absolutely no truth to this claim. Can you provide a link (or links) with credible evidence which shows beyond doubt that fox news should not be trusted or is a United States problem. Fox news reports the news as is or in favor of the Republicans but they don't lie. You simply don't like the truth.

collinswriters

10-05-2018, 08:16 AM

Just as an addendum here: is it not completely obvious that Collinswriter has misrepresented his own views to seem like a moderate who is simply skeptical about the Democrats' behavior? I get along with plenty of conservatives and can have civil conversations with them but it's very difficult when someone pretends they're not right-wing and plainly are.

On one page he is saying he is just concerned about due process and then on another is saying he isn't sure Fox News is biased, is complaining about Obama without providing a reason and is claiming Trump is getting a bum rap and that people don't even know what they object to about him.

He realizes he's on a site where the readers are much more likely to liberal and so has presented himself in a completely misleading way. It's kind of irritating.

That is your opinion and all I said were my opinions. I never complained about Obama, I only talked about the media's activities during his tenure which is almost exactly the same thing Fox News is doing with regards to Trump.
I am being skeptical as I said and that's just it whether you like it or not. I don't have to think like everyone else.

collinswriters

10-05-2018, 08:31 AM

I agree 100% with Filghy, and I'm going to nominate Stavros to Steve for the Hung Angels Literary Prize, but not only are the Republicans raping and pillaging, they have the nerve to claim VICTIM as well. It's going to take sticks and stones, torches and pitchforks, and millions of VOTES to shut Trump up. There is still a chance Trump could become the best thing that ever happened to the Democratic Party. There's nothing wrong with Trump that a jail cell won't cure, Instead of Impeachment, I think they should let an impotent Trump stay in the White House for two years as a constant reminder to Conservative Media and Redneck Voters what they hath wrought. Nobody wants Mike Pence to be President by default. No matter how you cut it, cleaning up this mess if going to be horrific.

As a self-proclaimed freethinker, I am NOT a Republican. I don't like all Trump's policies and I don't hate him in general.
In accordance with the constitution, why should Trump be locked up?
And what brought about Trump's impotency? How do you know that he is impotent?
Why should the Conservative media be reminded of anything? Don't they have the right to do what they do?

collinswriters

10-05-2018, 08:37 AM

Nice diatribe. Must have been very satisfying for you, especially with applause from the fearless types in the peanut gallery. But who actually said those things?

I don't suppose you realise how ironic it is that you use the term 'enemy of the people', which Trump has applied to any media that criticise him. If Republicans are such free-thinkers perhaps you could give us a list of those who don't think tax cuts for the rich are a panacea for every economic problem, who think that something should be done to control guns or that climate change is a problem requiring government action. Perhaps you could explain why Republican attitudes on free trade and Russia have done an about-turn since Trump.

The logic behind what Republicans do is unfortunately depressingly clear:
1. Use temporary control of the three arms of government to lock in a conservative majority in the Supreme Court and undermine government programs such as Obamacare.
2. Use control of the majority of states to tilt the electoral system in their favour through gerrymandering and voter suppression.
3. Use white christian identity politics to attract white working class support, while masking the real agenda of redistribution toward the rich.
4. Undermine independent sources of information such as the free media and expert analysis, while relying on tame media sources to hide the truth and spread misinformation.

You asked "who actually said those things?"
My turn. Where did you find the claims you mentioned (4 of them) and who made them?
You said it's clear.

filghy2

10-05-2018, 10:51 AM

You asked "who actually said those things?"
My turn. Where did you find the claims you mentioned (4 of them) and who made them?
You said it's clear.

So you want me to spend time finding sources for you, even though you have not bothered to provide a single piece of evidence for any of the claims you have made? I would do so if I thought you were genuinely interested, but nothing you've said so far suggests that. I note that you have ignored the considered responses by trish and broncofan to your previous post.

If you want people to take you seriously how about demonstrating that you are acting in good faith by providing evidence for your opinions and engaging with other people's arguments? If you want people to believe you are independent then you need to show it, not just assert it. At the moment you are acting more like a troll.

peejaye

10-05-2018, 01:38 PM

Stavros

10-05-2018, 01:58 PM

There's absolutely no truth to this claim. Can you provide a link (or links) with credible evidence which shows beyond doubt that fox news should not be trusted or is a United States problem. Fox news reports the news as is or in favor of the Republicans but they don't lie. You simply don't like the truth.

When the President boasted to the UN about his 'historic' achievements the audience burst into laughter to the extent that he had to pause his speech, laughter that was edited out of the Fox News report, which made no mention of the incident.

There is even a book on the subject called Fox Nation -vs- Reality, admittedly short at 142 pages, you can find it here-
https://www.amazon.com/Fox-Nation-vs-Reality-Communitys-ebook/dp/B00A8PD694

There has also been a fact check on reports and opinions on Fox Channel which can be found here-
https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/fox/

Rupert Murdoch has built a career in News which has deliberately 'interpreted' facts or distorted them to promote his libertarian free market agenda, and he has a right to do that. But what his press has also done, in the UK for example is to not only print stories that hav been lies, but to pay journalists and investigators to break the law often not to report the news but to create it, for example by rifling through the rubbish of a footballer or a tv star to find out anything personal that would embarrass them in public.

For years Murdoch defended the 'Page 3 girl' spread in his 'newspaper' The Sun, including the photo of a topless 16 year old that would have been considered illegal in those US states where the age of consent is 18 and possibly landed him in prison and his name on a sex offenders register had he tried to publish it there. And don't forget that Fox News for years allowed anyone willing to claim it that Barrack Obama was not a legitimate President because he was born in Africa not the USA -along with other conspiracy theories-
https://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2017/11/10_conspiracy_theories_that_tu.html

Why is Murdoch so allergic to the truth?

filghy2

10-05-2018, 09:31 PM

Poor old Collin....he's probably on his way to the "funny farm" which is where most people end up who've had dealings with you fruit bats.
I just wish Trump had won the Nobel Peace prize to see you lot wetting yourselves for the next six months! :smh

I wondered where you'd been. It looks like the doctors may have discharged you prematurely.

I was hoping that you'd been off working on your PhD thesis 'Trump/Putin/Farage: Three great statesman of the 21st century'.

buttslinger

10-05-2018, 10:28 PM

Peejaye, enjoy your kegger with Squi and Bart.
Tom Collins, your reasoning is Supreme Court worthy, now.
Donald, put the diet coke on ice.
Vladimir, Nostrovia!
Drink up, Gentlemen.
This is as good as it gets.

filghy2

10-07-2018, 02:57 AM

This is an interesting article by a historian on the parallels between the current situation and the rise of fascism in the 1920s.https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/10/25/suffocation-of-democracy/

As he says, Trumpism is not Nazism - but to paraphrase Mark Twain, it certainly rhymes. The risk is not totalitarian dictatorship but, rather, a steady shift toward 'illiberal democracy' of the kind seen in countries like Hungary and Turkey. The structures of democracy remain, but with all institutions controlled by loyalists who favour the ruling regime it becomes a charade.

If Republicans retain control of Congress next month the US will certainly move in this direction. Trump will have even less reason to restrain himself, and the Republican Congress even less reason to put up any resistance, having not paid any electoral price. Luckily, that seems unlikely. Nate Silver's site is predicting a 74% chance that the Dems will get a House majority, but only a 22% chance of a Senate majority. https://fivethirtyeight.com/

Stavros

10-07-2018, 03:48 PM

[QUOTE=filghy2;1855362]This is an interesting article by a historian on the parallels between the current situation and the rise of fascism in the 1920s.
As he says, Trumpism is not Nazism - but to paraphrase Mark Twain, it certainly rhymes. /QUOTE]

I am not sure the comparison works, largely because the US has a federal structure, but would argue this is where the cleavage in American politics is at its clearest.

It seems to me that what States have realised is that they retain enough control over their affairrs to extract as much as they can from the 'people's bank' -known as Congress- and amend their laws to fit their constituency. California can thus implement climate change policies that run counter to the policies advocated by the President; states can legallize marijuana in flagrant opposition to the policies advocated by the Department of Justice. But it is in those states where abortion is all but impossible, and millions of Americans denied the right to vote that you see how autonomy can become close to independence.

Even though there may be a determined effort to provide the Supreme Court with an opportunity to overturn Roe -v- Wade (I am not sure, legally how this is done), it would be more a matter of theatre as in reality Roe -v- Wade is a dead letter in those states whch now impose such severe term limits as to make an abortion all but impossible, and withdraw funding and support for Planned Parenthood.

In many states anyone with a prison record is barred from voting, just as the invention of new rules on registration has the practical effect of making it harder when it should be easier, and just as on election day in those states the authorities suddenly declare a polling station does not meet health and safety requirements and is closed -as is the next closest, and the next closest, and the next until a voter is faced with a round trip of 200 miles and several hours to exercise the most basic right in a democracy.

It is not a permanent situation, because it can be changed, but I don't see the changes required happening soon. In some ways what is being seen in the US is not so different from the resistance of the UK and Hungary to their perception of interfering government in Brussels, yet just as the Confederate states cannot survive without transferring tax payers money via Federal contracts to their states, offering corporations tax free or tax holiday deals to provide jobs, so the UK cannot survive without a close trading relationship with the EU.

Thus, whereas the Nazis consolidated power by drawing the whole of Germany into a single, monolithic structure ruled by 'one people, one leader, one state' what we seem to be seeing in the UK and the US is a retreat from the centre and a revival of the local, with the longer term prospect that both the UK in its present form (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland; with Gibraltar as an as yet undecided factor in Brexit) and the US could break up into constituent parts, even as they find ways of trading together.

Ultimately, rather than using a warning from the 1930s as an example, the US and the UK can best be judged in reference to their own histories, there is enough material there to provide useful comparisons and a lot of food for thought, chemical free we hope.

buttslinger

10-07-2018, 06:12 PM

I recall a story about a blind man looking at an Elephant, the United States is as big as Europe, but I think the story of The Hour now is the arrow in the shoulder, before you ask who shot the arrow or why, job #1 is to remove the arrow from your flesh. Preliminary Surgery is scheduled for Nov 6th.
Hopefully Donald Trump is just a loophole in the Law, a fly in the ointment, or what happens to a World where War is no longer an option. Two thousand years after we were taught to love our neighbor, our neighbors are still stealing our stuff. The fault is always our neighbor's. Donald Trump is as American as Apple Pie, J R Ewing, P T Barnum. People were sick of another Bush V. Clinton bout, two boring candidates. Nothing will be more entertaining than watching the cuffs placed on Trump's little hands. Live in Hope, Die in despair. The Republicans are petrified that Trump may signal their Death Knell, and they're coming up with the kitchen sink to prevent it. Kavanaugh is an Ace up their sleeve. So many Laws...…….

filghy2

10-08-2018, 01:25 AM

I am not sure the comparison works, largely because the US has a federal structure, but would argue this is where the cleavage in American politics is at its clearest.

Germany also has a federal system with significant powers reserved to the states, and did so at the time of the Nazi takeover. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism_in_Germany I'm sure there are plenty of ways that an unscrupulous and ruthless federal government can put pressure on states.

filghy2

10-08-2018, 01:51 AM

I think the story of The Hour now is the arrow in the shoulder, before you ask who shot the arrow or why, job #1 is to remove the arrow from your flesh. Preliminary Surgery is scheduled for Nov 6th.

I think you are over-optimistic. The best we can expect is that the patient will be stabilised and the arrow prevented from going any deeper. All indications are that the Dems will take back the House but not the Senate. That means they can block legislation and launch investigations, but they can't pass legislation or block appointments and they won't be able to impeach Trump.

If you haven't figured yet that most Republicans don't want to see or hear any evil about Trump then you haven't been paying attention. Mueller is unlikely to find a tape of Trump making a deal with the Russians, so whatever he comes up with will be an accumulation of lots of pieces of evidence, which they'll find reasons to discredit. I doubt that most of them care whether he colluded anyway - all they care about is that their tribe wins by any means possible. This isn't the Republican party of the 1970s - Nixon would not have been forced to resign today.

I think it's going to be more like World War I. The enemy advance may be halted, but there'll be many years of trench warfare ahead with no decisive victory. A full cure probably requires the sort of landslide that FDR achieved in the 1930s. But who knows? Maybe Trump will eventually drag us into another Great Depression and history can repeat.

buttslinger

10-08-2018, 05:57 AM

You may very well be right but I think Democrats are being born every day. Teenagers. With soft warm breasts. And they will be on our side. Thanks Trump!

Stavros

10-08-2018, 09:22 AM

Germany also has a federal system with significant powers reserved to the states, and did so at the time of the Nazi takeover. I'm sure there are plenty of ways that an unscrupulous and ruthless federal government can put pressure on states.

I understand the parallels, there is even an article on it, albeit one written from the perspective of an active Christian (not, I think of the 'Evangelical' trend) whih relates the absence of faith to its replacement with identity politics attempting to fill a gap that might also be created by unemployment, or fractured family life-
https://swarajyamag.com/world/drawing-parallels-between-weimar-germany-and-weimar-america

There has been a profusion of books and articles on the origins of the Third Reich which argue either that it was a crisis of modernity in the sense that by the 1930s Germany had failed to develop the liberal institutions that existed in, say the UK, and which acted to prevent the dictatorship that emerged there (as was also the case with Italy), or that the Nazis were a product of modernity itself but a modernizing process that had failed to deliver the degree of prosperity before the First World War that generated so much social distress and dislocation after it. Geoff Eley and David Blakbourn have been proponents of the first idea, Detlev Peukert of the second, and perhaps the more persuasive.

For an overview of the Blakbourn/Eley thesis try this link-
https://douglasibell.com/2012/03/17/the-peculiarities-of-german-history/

The Peukert view is in this very, very long Wikipedia article on him, some of poorly written, but he was a fascinating historian whose book, in English -Inside the Third Reich- is worth reading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detlev_Peukert

I think the differences are too great for the comparison to go far, not least the fact that a unified Germany had only existed for 63 years when Hitler became Chancellor. Maybe the parallel should be with the US civil war?

filghy2

10-13-2018, 02:50 AM

It looks like Trump is literally driving Americans crazy. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/10/12/donald-trump-anxiety-disorder-pscyhologists-221305

buttslinger

10-17-2018, 11:33 PM

CNN is saying Mueller is going to have lots of indictments after the election, and could be finished by December. That would be the politically correct time to pounce, I think. He will report to Rosenstein, if he's still around, and it's possible that a newly Democratic House might have to press the AG to spill the juiciest dirt.
I'm looking at the Democratic Presidential hopefuls....I don't see JFK there. If Mueller murders Trump, maybe the Dems could run another O'bama. O'Rourke? We'll see if Pretty Boy has the Real Stuff.

buttslinger

11-12-2018, 06:48 AM

Mr Magoo OUT
Mr Clean IN

Let the Games begin.
The Stakes: just Control of the Western World.

filghy2

11-13-2018, 01:37 AM

More like Mr Magoo OUT, Mr Stooge IN
https://www.salon.com/2018/11/12/trump-mueller-and-matt-whitaker-whats-next-in-d-c-s-high-stakes-chess-match/

buttslinger

11-13-2018, 06:38 AM

+I can only guess what WINNING looks like now from the Trump point of view, Come January, the Dems are going to show him why he can't do the things he's doing. Trump skipped Veteran's day responsibilities, but Mueller didn't.
I think a lot of people are going to have their eyes opened this year. I guess what they say is true, anyone can grow up to be President in the USA. Even if you never grew up
[url=https://imgbb.com/]https://image.ibb.co/fe8GDV/Trump-Youth-Kids.jpg

filghy2

11-16-2018, 06:17 AM

Trump has clearly been having a prolonged sulk/tantrum since the mid-term results came in. https://www.salon.com/2018/11/14/not-tough-on-allies-petulant-and-unlikeable-the-pout-monster-returns/

What are the chances that he'll eventually have a complete meltdown that forces Mike Pence to think about invoking Article 25 Section 4? That tends to happen with malignant narcissists when reality refuses to conform to their demands. This could get very ugly.

buttslinger

11-17-2018, 08:57 PM

Trump has clearly been having a prolonged sulk/tantrum since the mid-term results came in. ..This could get very ugly.
Trump definitely looks tired, maybe Whitaker told him everything Mueller has, maybe Putin gave him some bad news in France, who knows? I think it's safe to say we sailed past ugly two years ago, I think it was Zsa Zsa Gabor who said eventually a woman has to choose between her face and her ass, I think Trump has painted himself in a corner and now that corner is falling away. What we don't know and don't see is in full bloom now, we're headed into a new chapter in American Politics, rumors, lies, disinformation, they all play a big part in it.

buttslinger

11-29-2018, 06:12 PM

...I need to figure out a way to soundtrack some Helicopter background noise behind my posts to make them seem more substantial.....

As Trump, Manafort, Stone, and other assorted weasels try to use this Yuletime Break to muddy the waters, it looks like Mueller has moved his pawn Michael Cohen into motion to respond. Turn up the heat a bit. Bring to a boil, then put a lid on it to simmer. If I were Trump I'd order up a few Prostitutes while I'm in Venezuela, the whores in Club Fed aren't that great, I would imagine. All I want for Christmas is Trump in the Big House. If you think Pence is befuddled now...……..wait and see what he inherits from the Trump Family. ha ha ha ha

buttslinger

12-01-2018, 06:54 AM

Did you boys catch the bro-shake between MSB and Putin today? It looks like it must be fun to be getting away with murder.

buttslinger

12-10-2018, 01:24 AM

Dearest Citizen One:
Have yourself a Merry little Christmas, because the Ghost of Christmas Future is testifying against you with Robert Mueller. ho ho ho.

Tom1964

12-17-2018, 03:39 PM

Donald Trump looks very young in that photo. His hair is much darker and not the blonde look we see in the news videos.

filghy2

12-18-2018, 02:05 AM

Donald Trump looks very young in that photo. His hair is much darker and not the blonde look we see in the news videos.

That photo must be about 30 years old, given Ivanka is now 37, so he would have been in his early 40s. I'm pretty sure Trump dies his hair, among other ridiculous things he does to it.

Tom1964

12-18-2018, 11:08 AM

All politicians promise everything, but do they deliver? How is Donald Trump doing with creating jobs? What has he done and what hasn't he done so far? i would love to hear genuine comments as we don't hear a lot as im in UK. I also remember about a wall being built. Is that still happening? Whats the positives and negatives? Whats his views on tgirls?

filghy2

12-19-2018, 02:18 AM

Where have you been the past 2 years Tom? If you haven't heard much about Trump then you must have been marooned on a desert island. I'm not American either, but there are almost as many stories about Trump in the media as there are about Australian politics - though granted we don't have any issues that match the Brexit debacle.

trish

12-19-2018, 08:00 AM

He’s doing a TREMENDOUS job. He’s a TREMENDOUS president with TREMENDOUS ideas, a TREMENDOUS staff, a TREMENDOUS cabinet, a TREMENDOUS command of the English language and a commensurate vocabulary. Great, huge, bigly, thumbs up ... not to mention he's also an ignorant narcissist, a stupid pea brain, a bigoted, misogynistic, racist, and a compulsive liar.

Stavros

12-20-2018, 01:03 PM

I don't think anyone is surprised that the Commander-in-Chief has declared victory over ISIS and intends to pull US forces out of Syria, and did so without first informing the Department of Defence, or State, or the National Security Adviser.

What we have not been told is whether or not Erdogan decided to squeeze the balls of the draft-dodging coward from Queens. Turkey fuming over the gruesome slaughter of Jamal Khasoggi (the Saudi butchers didn't even sedate the man before sawing off his limbs) has been dismayed by the defence of MBS by his boy in Washington, so they needed a deal.

How about Turkey let's the American continue to rake in the cash from his investments in the country while delivering the Kurds to Ankara? By pulling the US out of Syria, this is not just a victory for Syria, Russia and Iran, as well as the 14,000 or so ISIS fighters still there (their last operation came minutes before the President's victory tweet), it is a cruel blow to the Kurds who did most of the ground work to obliterate ISIS in Northern Syria.

just as Erdogan said of the Kurds "we will bury them in their ditches" so he turned to the American and said "and you can keep your towers and your cash" and the American smiled. After all, the whole point of the foreign policy of the USA is to put money in his pocket. You have to feel sorry for Michael Flynn, his Intel firm was so involved in Turkey and made him so much money but his business partner was allied to the Russians. He is heading off to prison in disgrace while the other guy polishes his arse on a golden chair in the Oval Office, mentally counting the day's profit.

And the Kurds? Wait and see.

filghy2

12-21-2018, 01:07 AM

I don't think anyone is surprised that the Commander-in-Chief has declared victory over ISIS and intends to pull US forces out of Syria, and did so without first informing the Department of Defence, or State, or the National Security Adviser.

I'm a bit torn on this one. As always, you can query Trump's motivations and method and whether he's making a considered decision or just acting on impulse. On the other hand, there are good arguments that US interventions in the Middle East have generally done more harm than good and it may be better to cut your losses rather than continue is pursuit of some illusory victory. If you relied on the military's advice you could never get out because they will always argue that more troops are needed for longer to finish the job.

Like a stopped clock, Trump may be right occasionally, even if he is right for the wrong reasons.

buttslinger

12-21-2018, 06:46 AM

Well, that's that.
Military Coup on Christmas Day?
Individual One in Bunker Mode?
Govt Shutdown?
Mueller pounces late February.
Who's going to want that Secretary of Defense job, Eric and Junior?
Is it still Thursday?
No, it's the second quarter of the Redskins/Bronco Superbowl. The role of Doug Williams will be played by Robert Mueller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCkmOCsI-hc

I guess we'll have to do our National Duty and start an Over/ Under pool of what day Trump will get the cuffs. Will he blubber???
You laffin' putin? Yer next!

Stavros

12-21-2018, 10:36 AM

I'm a bit torn on this one. As always, you can query Trump's motivations and method and whether he's making a considered decision or just acting on impulse. On the other hand, there are good arguments that US interventions in the Middle East have generally done more harm than good and it may be better to cut your losses rather than continue is pursuit of some illusory victory. If you relied on the military's advice you could never get out because they will always argue that more troops are needed for longer to finish the job.

Like a stopped clock, Trump may be right occasionally, even if he is right for the wrong reasons.

You make some good points, although I think the Americans - and the British, assuming anyone right now is in control of policy- are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

i would suggest a good way to understand the dilemma is to contrast the structural with the conjunctural approaches to crisis, war and resolution.

The conjunctural presents the immediate case of intervention to change the course of a crisis, which may succeed or, as in Syria, draw the parties deeper into an internal conflict they do not own and cannot control. This has sometimes been known as 'mission creep' and prolongs the conflict until the political, military and financial costs become too great and a resolution is sought. The US has decided the political costs in Syria are greater than the benefit, but while a withdrawal benefits Syria, Russia and Iran they are now left with the burden of rebuilding Syria which in the Russian case appears to be a long term commitment to the security of Syria. It presents a dilemma for Israel which sees Syria as a threat but where the Russian presence is more significant than the Iranian.

israel and Russia are on speaking terms at least and there may be an agreement to curtail Iranian influence though one cannot rule out mischief making for the sake of it, just to remind Israel it too must exercise restraint. However, the rebuilding of Syria if it takes place will require 10 years of relative peace and there is no conclusion yet to the conflict with Daesh and al-Qaeda, or an agreement with the Syrian opposition to formally end the war and move to the next stage. On this basis the US has weakened its position by absenting itself from any political resolution to the Syrian conflict, just as it fled Iraq once the first post-Saddam government was elected, though the effect was to boost Iranian influence there.

if you compare the conjunctural to the structural you notice the difference, one good the other bad. The positive example is the allied takeover of Germany in 1945 which divided the country in two but led to a new state formation that was created in the West through a total commitment that was political, financial and also social, if the de-Nazificatiom process is seen that way. There was no independent German government until 1949, in the interim West Germany was in effect run by the US, Britain and France with the NATO alliance forming an important umbrella that rehabilitated a West Germany into the international system- the Saarland remained under French sovereignty until 1957 and the Federal Republic joined the UN in 1973.

The structural approach thus involves a party that intervened in a conflict seeing it through to the end of the military phase, then taking over or even creating a state apparatus, considered necessary in the case of Germany because Hitler had destroyed its previous formation. However, while reconstruction happened in Japan, the US controlling Japanese politics and the economy until 1952, they left the Monarchy intact, and neutralised the military which was absorbed into an American Asian defence strategy linked with Korea and Taiwan.

But clearly the structural approach is hugely expensive and time consuming, and the powers have not repeated it since.

The negative example of the structural approach is found with the Anglo-French division of the Middle East after the war in 1918. Creating new states against the will of the people, subordinating the region, in Britain's case, to its strategic interests in India, or exploiting local resources -oil in Iraq from the late 1920s- the reconstruction of the Middle East created new problems rather than resolving those that existed when the Ottomam Empire joined the war on the German side in 1914, and lost.

It is about commitment, but also empathy with the fallen- it was easier to rebuild Germany, there were ties and relationships based on shared values. The Arabs never enjoyed that relationship of equality, simply because as Arabs they were deemed to be inferior people, a view in 1914 that remains central to the contemporary problems that appear to have no solution today, and where after one hundred years of intervention thete is a sense that nothing has been learned, and the same mistakes are made again, and again.

But, as Mother Courage knew, war is profitable for enough people to keel it going.

broncofan

01-19-2019, 02:34 AM

Michael Cohen was convicted of tax fraud and of lying to Congress. He lied to Congress about when he stopped communicating with Russian officials to develop Trump Tower Moscow. He now claims that Trump instructed him to lie to Congress which is obstruction of justice. Everyone (ie. lawyers, constitutional scholars including previous holdouts) agrees that obstruction of justice that takes this form is always impeachable.

It remains to be seen what corroborating evidence there is of Trump instructing Cohen. If it is just Cohen's word and not something in the cache of other communications Mueller likely has, Republicans can and probably will refuse to take the word of a convicted perjurer. We're going to find out in the coming weeks/months what it is that corroborates this if anything.

broncofan

01-19-2019, 02:42 AM

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/1086419880025284608

Mueller's office disputes the report of this which originated with buzzfeed. Make of this what you will. They are not clarifying the record, which makes sense since they've not been releasing their findings through the press, but it remains to be seen what was inaccurate.

Stavros

01-19-2019, 08:18 PM

Amidst this reportage I read that what he really wanted was to create a broadcast network to rival CNN to be called TNN, and that this continues to exercise his imagination to the extent that he will not run in 2020 but revert to the broadcast project, assuming he needs other financial backers for it. I also read I think in the NYT that of his core base, men without college degrees, they are so disillusioned with his incompetence they will not vote at all in 2020. Whether this is good news for the Democrats depends on whether or no they choose Biden or Harris.
Though one must also ponder the very real prospect of this lame excuse for a man spending the rest of his life in prison.

filghy2

01-20-2019, 02:04 AM

Who would want to finance Trump given his history of losing his financier's money? Would the Russians want to keep financing him once he is out of power?

I doubt very much that Trump will quit voluntarily because he knows he would be seen as a loser and that's something he can't bear. His instinct will always be to double down and hope that his usual tactics will succeed. The only way he will go quietly is if he thinks it is the only way to avoid prison. One suggestion is that he might resign just before the end of his term in return for a pardon from Pence. But that would require a large section of the Republican Party to turn against him and we're a long way from that.

Stavros

01-20-2019, 01:02 PM

I agree on the financials though there are some who would buy into it. He thinks he has a winner's genes, believing that genes are destiny. He will pobabaly not run in 2020 to avoid losing, and if he resigns it will be in triumph, and 'write' a book proclaiming himself the undefeated, and the greatest and the most popular President of all time.

buttslinger

01-26-2019, 09:23 PM

In my mind...…..no way in Hell will Trump be walking around in 2020, much less running for President.
So far Mueller has busted 15 moons around Planet Putin, and 8 moons of Planet Trump...Hmmm, not to hard to see where this is going. Trump will be the easy part, now that Nancy has teeth, we're seeing that Trump and his circle of ass-ociates are like extras on The Sopranos, cut-rate punks. PUTIN, on the other hand, is the Devil. It will be interesting to see what happens, and how much of it we will never know because it's classified.

bluesoul

01-26-2019, 10:59 PM

In my mind...…..

you can pretty much say this is all you said. and all anyone else says here. too bad it doesn't mean shit.

https://media.townhall.com/townhall/reu/ha/images/2019/20/06a140e0-6f9f-4519-bcba-e5ffc2248856.png

buttslinger

01-28-2019, 02:29 AM

you can pretty much say this is all you said. and all anyone else says here. too bad it doesn't mean shit.

I agree that some people can look at a dress and see yellow, and some people see blue,
some people hear "laurel' some people hear "yanny",
and I agree that Democrats see a Catholic School punk in DC for a phony PRO-LIFE Day,
and Republicans see another illegal alien browning up the Country,
but we'll see who Trump is lying to when Mueller finishes his report,
lots of Republicans will have THE SHIT on their faces.

trish

01-28-2019, 05:59 PM

I’m agreeing, at least in part, with buttslinger on this one.

It is worth noting that even in the case of the yellow/blue dress, we do know what the person means who says it’s yellow, we just may not agree. So yes, what people say here has meaning.

You know, there’s a reason nearly everybody on social media is familiar with the yellow/blue dress or the laurel/yanny auditory illusion. They’re memorable because they’re interesting; and they’re interesting because they’re rare and unusual. Most of the time, even when we disagree with one another, there’s a discernible truth independent of the biases and sensory capacities of the observer.

Most human beings have the capacity to interpret a shit-eating grin when they see it in context. Most people know Trump was lying when he claimed his inaugural crowd “went all the way back to the Washington Monument” and “looked like a million-and-a-half people.” Yet apparently quite a few human beings also know how to obfuscate the obvious. Worse, there are more who are willing to believe (or at least repeat) any obfuscation, no matter how clearly contrived, as long as it supports their own preconceptions.

Is there a shit storming coming? Should Trump supporters be advised to pull their MAGA visors down over their eyes and turn off all the fans? I don’t know. I’m not even sure I want that sort of shit-storm.

Rather than an impeachment that leaves Pence in power, I'd like the Right to see Trump for what he is, a con man, and a media-constructed cartoon. (Unfortunately, they already know he’s an irreligious blowhard, a liar, an ignoramus, a narcissist, a bigot, a racist and a misogynistic white supremacist - but they’re all okay with that). Rather than be impeached, I’d like to see his base dissolve. I want Trump to lose, yes - but I’d rather the electorate escort him to the door, not Congress. Impeachment will only deepen the gaping divide between Americans. More than anything, we need to clean that wound and sew it up, not throw more salt in it.

bluesoul

01-29-2019, 04:56 AM

I agree that some people can look at a dress and see yellow, and some people see blue,
some people hear "laurel' some people hear "yanny",
and I agree that Democrats see a Catholic School punk in DC for a phony PRO-LIFE Day,
and Republicans see another illegal alien browning up the Country,
but we'll see who Trump is lying to when Mueller finishes his report,
lots of Republicans will have THE SHIT on their faces.

i agree about your dress color analogy- my point is that there is selective ignorance on both sides. the right chooses to focus only on what they wish to see and they ignore what doesn't support their argument. the left kinda does the same thing: so in the end, it's basically who is worse

i'm personally not sure when so many conservatives forgot that trump promised that mexico would build the wall, but sometime between then and now- they've taken it upon themselves to "try" and fund it's construction themselves.

https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

why they wouldn't ask the billionaire in charge (and his family, their friends and their families) to pony up some extra millions is beyond me- but the narrative has now changed. it's the left's fault for not allow trump to work his "art of the deal" with mexico. which is why that gofundme still needed his blessing (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/us/politics/kris-kobach-wall-funding.html).

we don't just choose the colors we wish to see- but we make sure those colors are the exact opposite of our opponents- because this assures us, we're seeing the correct colors

at least, that's how the right knows roger stone is innocent.

http://stonedefensefund.com/

btw: would be curious your thoughts on "fake" philosopher and apparent right wing genius jordan peterson. he really salts my meat, but he's very entertaining to watch (for like 15min). he has this merry go-round way of answering even the simplest question- which really excites his fanbase into a frenzy because they hear very sound and reasonable arguments that support their beliefs.

of course pete is doing nothing more but selling snake oil- but maybe my eyes just don't register whatever color coded snake oil he's selling

buttslinger

01-29-2019, 08:48 PM

Never heard of Jordan Peterson, but I'm sure if I listened to him for ten years I'd agree with him wholeheartedly. That's the problem. I agree that both parties are not perfect, but your choice for President shouldn't hinge on whether he likes Rock music or Country music. Congress has a approval rating of 13%....that's not my opinion, that's a fact (give or take)
None of my complaints matter if I don't have a solution, and I hope the solution isn't that one day we all wake up one day and find every thing we use is made in China.

After we hang Trump and humiliate Putin, we will still be left with the Trump Army. The rules are different in the Country or in the City. There are words and there is THE WORD. You don't have to be nice AND smart but you have to be one or the other. CNN and MSNBC are head and shoulders above Fox as NEWS organizations. Obama is head and shoulders above Bush Jr and Trump. If you don't agree with that, you are wrong.

Today I am going to buy a SuperBigGulp Coke and some kind of hideous junk food, it will be the only time of the day I'm happy. I've got a message for everyone here: when you get old your brain and body goes straight to Hell. The good news is also the bad news, every American owns a say in the Future of the United States. Alone, my voice is worth one divided by 300 million. As a Democrat, my voice is worth 153 million times that. I give Obama a 100% rating because he was right 86% of the time. I give Trump a ZERO because he is right 24% of the time. And, oh yeah, he's a goddam traitor.

buttslinger

01-30-2019, 06:41 AM

https://i.ibb.co/Dk5pXj8/kim-donald-trump-jr.jpg (https://ibb.co/XpS8BG3)
Pardon the sleazy pic, politik pornographic

Russian and China are closer than they've been in 60 years. They're fine tuning their plans to delegitimize the 2020 election.

I need to go back to my swiss spa with the nurses in the tight uniforms. If it weren't for the morphine cocktails, I'd feel embarrassed to be babied so....just kidding.

I wonder, If Mueller found out Trump was blabbing secrets to Putin- what would he do? Shouldn't he maybe tell somebody?????
Make a couple calls?

Stavros

01-31-2019, 10:25 AM

When a President is so sore at being contradicted by his three intelligence chiefs that he calls them 'naive' and suggests they 'go back to school' (if I was insulted like that I would resign),one wonders if he gets his intelligence from another (American? Non-American?) source.

When we are told that "I think God calls all of us to fill different roles at different times and I think that He wanted Donald Trump to become president.",

You have to wonder if there is a god, or that god might be as stupid as the President. And yes, all American children should have to sit through hours of bible classes every day, just like the Branch Davidians in Waco...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47066659

buttslinger

01-31-2019, 06:46 PM

In the USA we give the Devil his due. Donald Trump was elected by The People of these United States, maybe not fair and square, but as P T Barnum said "there's a sucker born every minute"
As one of my many co-workers said to one of my many bosses "I've seen 'em come, and I've seen 'em go.
We routinely insult the gun lovers, climate change deny-ers, homophobes, rubes, pro-lifers and Religious nut-jobs. It's only fair they insult us back, for reasons that make absolutely no sense to us.

I dunno, I don't pretend to know, but I think the Generals and Intelligence Chiefs and the FBI see exactly what is going on. Unfortunately they're not allowed to destroy the Republican Party to get their man. They're not allowed to break the rules. Trump will pay for his sins not because he is a foul human being, he'll lose his Name and Fortune because he marked the wrong box on his Civil Service application that read "Are you now or have you ever been a member of a group that plans to overthrow the Government of the United States?"

Trump is a Clown, Rush Limbaugh is the real Devil here.

buttslinger

02-07-2019, 09:05 PM

CORRECTION:
Limbaugh is a clown, Bill Belichick is the devil.

UPDATE:
He who laughs last laughs best, the worm has turned, it's not going to be good to be the King anymore. These next two years are going to be something else.

buttslinger

02-08-2019, 07:36 AM

Because Nancy runs the House, Donald won't have anything to give his base, even McConnell has warned Trump about the concern in the Senate if a President whips up an Emergency so he could use the Armed Forces for a whim. If Trump doesn't get his big beautiful WALL, he better have a good De-Fence.
While Mueller is limited in their scope to Russia and the Election, the Democrats Oversight Power is only limited to their capacity of Shame. If they dig in the right places, you know Trump has enough dirt to be hung twenty times over.

It really bugs me that Putin is probably having a martini, a massage, a real nice meal and a blow job all the while laughing at these United States. Who knows how much damage that prick has done. This is a low point on the mast for Old Glory, and that's putting it mildly.

bluesoul

02-08-2019, 10:13 AM

according to donald trump: 2 of the greatest accomplishments of our great nation (the united states to you pea brains) are:

1). gaining our independence
2). abolition of civil rights

both were started with prayer. and amen says i

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieKRTPVMxDU

buttslinger

02-08-2019, 06:30 PM

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-considering-pulling-us-out-of-constitution

If you thought Baby Donald was bad, wait til you see how he perform during the terrible twos

bluesoul

02-09-2019, 10:46 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjUvfZj-Fm0

entertaining

Stavros

02-10-2019, 04:40 AM

Rather than salivate at the prospect of impeachment, you might want to pay attention to the President's actual comments, his claim that the US economy was about to go into recession before he saved it; that the 2020 Election is all but rigged by the Democrats-

"The Democrats in Congress yesterday were vicious and totally showed their cards for everyone to see," Mr Trump tweeted on Saturday morning.

"When the Republicans had the Majority they never acted with such hatred and scorn! The Dems are trying to win an election in 2020 that they know they cannot legitimately win!"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-latest-2020-election-democrats-win-twitter-campaign-a8771351.html

This might be the moment for someone to ask the President if he intends to abolish elections in the USA, and rule the USA in a permanent state of emergency.

buttslinger

02-10-2019, 08:20 PM

If you pay attention to Trump's comments, you fall directly into his trap, you listen to him, but he listens to nobody but Anne Coulter. Trump locked into the pure hatred that his base has for the Democratic Party, Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi. I really do believe he was shocked on how far that hatred carried him. Every time Sean Hannity rolls out a continuous rant against Democrats, that's a commercial for Trump. Every time CNN and MSNBC rage against Trump, that's a free commercial for Trump. Everyone agrees that NOW is fucked up, it's the FUTURE they are concerned about. All those Federal Judges...….sigh.....Every time you donate 10 bucks to a politician it goes to a TV or radio commercial, Trump got free TV time because of the outrageous things he says. The more outrageous, the more coverage.

You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle. If you can con a few hundred thousand people in Ohio, you can be President. When it comes to the art of the con, only Putin tops Trump. I can only wonder what Russian Politics is like.

Stavros

02-10-2019, 10:25 PM

If you pay attention to Trump's comments, you fall directly into his trap

There may be no such thing as bad publicity for someone with a new film, album, book coming out, but your President is not an entertainer, and if the mid-term elections are a measurement of public opnion, he is in trouble. What you could have said is that in spite of Ann Coulter's relegation of the President to the status of 'wimp', the President (and his revolting son, Junior) continues to insult and abuse Americans because this is who he is, he is not going to change, and it makes no difference if it is a 'Prayer Breakfast', a tweet or an interview with the media. It may yet happen, that he who must be obeyed invokes emergency powers, as he really does not care what the law says, or indeed, anything other than whatever it is that gurgles in his brain when he is on his daily tanning bed, determined to look like a pineapple.

buttslinger

02-11-2019, 05:36 AM

What we've seen is exactly what you would expect from a fatally flawed wannabe with absolutely no political experience. Eisenhower had none either but he did run the entire ETO in WWII. Reagan had Alzheimers and nobody noticed. Trump had zero talent around him. The entire legitimate Republican Party wanted him G-O-H-N GONE This has to be some kind of wager between God and Lucifer, that's the only thing that makes any sense.
Even if Mueller gets hit by a bus, the Democrats are going to make sure Trump is toast. They're going to make a statement, I think. In fact, you may see nothing get done these next two years except the investigation of Individual One.

Stavros

02-11-2019, 06:35 AM

Surely it has been transparent since they had to accept him in 2016, that the Republicans know who this man is, they know he is a crook and a con-man, that he is a crude, vulgar, semi-literate moron -but they don't care about that- in fact, when it comes to race-baiting Americans, taking away their rights, insulting and abusing Black Americans, First Nations and of course women, they are delrious with joy -he has made hate legitimate.
But here is the key: he is there to do what they want with a vengeance: a) cut taxes and regulations on business; b) capture as many senior positions in the judiciary as can be achieved, from State officials to the Supreme Court of the USA, and c) erase every trace of President Obama's legal and cultural legacy on American life.
As one Republican said after the election 'It will be as if Obama never happened'.

You saw the reaction of Mitchell McConnell to the shut-down: he simply did not care. So what if 800,00 people go without a wage? He probably wishes most of them were not Federal employees anyway. Beyond the offensive, juvenile tweets there is a smug brigade of venal neo-cons quietly erasing your future so they and their billionaire friends can carry on living their lavish styles, secure in the knowledge that when it is time to pay off the national debt -$21 trillion and rising at a rate of $1 trillion a year- the schmucks in the provinces will pay. Only the little people pay taxes. That is how Republicans like it. As long as their lad in the White House continues to do as they say, he will receive their support.

buttslinger

02-11-2019, 09:09 AM

There's a reason Republicans don't like Nancy Pelosi. Who would you bet on NOW? Trump paid off the Fat Cats with a 2 trillion dollar bonus, and he gave the huddled masses all the bullshit they crave. But now Nancy has the power of the purse. And with oversight power, every day the news channels can focus on a new scandal that just got undug. How many bottles of water did Whitacre drink??
Trump being elected was the worst thing imaginable. One day the USA is going to take a monster hit it can't recover from and that's it for us, NATO, maybe the world, who knows? I hope it's years after I'm dead.

I think Trump is toast, I hope the Dems keep their wits. We're not going to have debates with 50 candidates are we?

Stavros

02-13-2019, 07:10 AM

We're not going to have debates with 50 candidates are we?

Why not join the race and make your intentions clear, that you want to be President. Make it 51.

Stavros

02-13-2019, 08:09 PM

Mexico is going to pay for the wall.
Oh no it's not -you are.
Is this compromise, a concession,or betrayal?

The compromise measure, assembled by senior members of both parties on Monday night (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/us/politics/shutdown-deal.html?module=inline), includes just $1.375 billion for new fencing along the border with Mexico, far short of the $5.7 billion Mr. Trump sought for a steel or concrete wall — and less even than the deal that he rejected in December, which prompted the longest government shutdown in American history.
But the president got some cover from some of his Republican allies in the Senate and at least one of his hard-line immigration critics in the media, Laura Ingraham, who have claimed some measure of victory by recalling that Ms. Pelosi had said last month she would approve only one dollar for a wall on the southwestern border.

“Well, try $1.375 billion,” Ms. Ingraham crowed on Fox News Tuesday night. “She might not want to call it a wall, but that’s what it is. And that’s not all bad.”

As with all compromises, I say to people, support the bill for what is in it,” Ms. Pelosi said Wednesday. “Don’t judge it for what is not in it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/13/us/politics/shutdown-border-security.html

buttslinger

02-14-2019, 12:54 AM

Thanks for the nomination Stavros, I have a committee working right now to find out how much funding I could reasonably raise from know-nothing constituent wannabes.
I'll leave it up to you to decide how much of the phony BS Ingraham, Hannity, Limbaugh, and Coulter tout is stuff they really believe, or stuff they feed their listeners for ratings. The Republicans had a good thing going with their base, until Trump came in and swooped them up. Now they actually believe all those whacky campaign promises. Part two of the question is how much Trump's base believes the lies Trump tells. Because they all say they know he's lying, but that doesn't effect their belief in him, or something. National Debt hit 22 trillion today. You don't hear many people talking about that.

mrtrebus

02-14-2019, 11:41 PM

Trump now weigh 243 pounds, four more than last year.

filghy2

02-15-2019, 01:40 AM

Trump now weigh 243 pounds, four more than last year.

He's 6' 2", so that tips him over from overweight to obese on the Body Mass Index https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm

Stavros

02-15-2019, 02:27 AM

The White House has said it will declare a national emergency on America’s southern border as a way of funding Donald Trump’s long-promised border wall with Mexico (https://www.theguardian.com/world/mexico).
...
The national emergency could allow Trump to circumvent Congress to tap funding for his wall that has been at the center of a fierce dispute with Democrats who say such a barrier is expensive and ineffective.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/14/trump-declare-national-emergency-border-wall-mitch-mcconnell

Because Democracy doesn't work. When I was CEO of my company I gave orders and they were obeyed. This Congress thinks it can do what it likes, and I have to go along with it. No, not anymore. If Congress does not obey me, so what? I will by pass it, shut it down, drain it, and my people will love me for it. This is a new America, I am your God and King, and I will have no other Gods before me.

filghy2

02-16-2019, 05:08 AM

You can bet that the Republicans who expressed opposition to this will now meekly roll over, as McConnell has done. The joke is that they did nothing about the supposed emergency in the two years they controlled Congress.

buttslinger

02-17-2019, 06:48 AM

The vibe I'm getting is that it's sinking in that 40% of the United States applauds everything Trump has done. Like all his deeds have been gifts for them.

Even if I could size up the situation like the Gettysburg Address, I still think the fact remains I've got this 40 pound disease bag in my colon. Everybody has. One more goddam thing for the next imaginary President to fix. Trump has weaponized 40% of the population, his zombified followers are going to be one more mountain to move, I'm sure the Hep Cats in the Government have a projection on what year the US Economy fails, I wonder what it is????

Stavros

02-17-2019, 07:10 AM

The Constitution places the power of the purse in Congress: “No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law . . .” In specifying the activities on which public funds may be spent, Congress defines the contours of federal power. This requirement of legislative appropriation before public funds are spent is at the foundation of our constitutional order.
https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretations/appropriations-clause-article-i-section-9-clause-7

Not any more, as the President can now by-pass Congress. But if Senators and Congressional Representatives support this move by the President, as Mitchell McConnell has, does this not also mean they have violated their Oath to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States? And should this not lead to their immediate impeachment?

Democracy when it falls, often falls owing to pressures from within it, rather than attacks from without. It might make more sense for Senator McConnell to declare that Congress now recognizes the President is the supreme power in the USA, that as an interim measure he should be referred to as the 'Dear Leader' pending a vote to abolish Presidential elections, grant the incumbent the right to be President for life, indeed, and, led by Michael Pence, declare that as God's chosen President, he should be referred to as the 'Eternal Leader'.

buttslinger

02-17-2019, 07:26 PM

Stavros, just because you've read the rulebook doesn't mean you know the rules. The only rule you can count on is the quality and caliber of a man, the Courts can strike down Trump over and over, do the heavy lifting, sweat all the details, yet Trump still remains in the Oval Office eating cheeseburgers and laughing it up with his pals on an unsecure line. Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump and Sean Hannity and the rest won't be shooed away, if you get between them and a dollar, be prepared to lose, Dignity is for losers, like School Teachers.

My Pop didn't risk his life with Patton so Trump could give it all to Putin, if Mueller doesn't hang Trump the handcuffs of Parliamentary Procedure come off, you'll see what happens when the sixty percent get more outraged than the forty percent. If not, then it's all over, fat fucking Americans can sit in their airconditioned shitholes and disappear in front of the TV.

buttslinger

02-20-2019, 08:34 PM

Mueller's report next week? Alert the Media.

Stavros

02-21-2019, 07:58 AM

filghy2

02-21-2019, 10:43 AM

If the New York times is 'the enemy of the people' as the President has said, why hasn't he shut it down using his Emergecy Powers? Or is he just going to lie on his tanning bed so he can look like a pineapple, while the 'enemy of the people' is allowed to operate free from justice? Are the 'enemies' now to be given the freedom to do what they do? And can we at least agree that if you disagree with the Dear Leader, by definition you are an 'enemy of the people'?

You don't think that's what he would do eventually if he stayed in power and his allies in Congress and the courts did nothing to stop him? His dictator friends like Viktor Orban have already established the template for how to do it. I don't think you necessarily have to ban them directly - just use all the legal and regulatory powers available to favour friendly media and punish those who aren't.

buttslinger

02-21-2019, 09:55 PM

If the people of these United States elect a Clown, there is no cure for that. These are the same people that elected Bush Jr.
Trump won't go down for being a jerk, he'll go down for being a traitor.

filghy2

02-22-2019, 03:16 AM

I think Bush Jr may be secretly enjoying Trump's presidency because he knows that someone else is going to take over the mantle of worst president in recent US history.

trish

02-22-2019, 09:21 PM

I think Bush Jr may be secretly enjoying Trump's presidency because he knows that someone else is going to take over the mantle of worst president in recent US history. To Trump's credit, it's amazing a man of his age could limbo beneath such a low bar.

buttslinger

02-22-2019, 09:53 PM

To Trump's credit, it's amazing a man of his FATNESS could limbo beneath such a low bar.

He studied at the Rush Limbo School of Limbo

buttslinger

02-27-2019, 06:45 AM

God, I hope Cohen has lots of rat stories tomorrow, it's been a long time since I've seen quality entertainment on TV. It could be a flood, Cohen may be the last guy on earth testifying before a House Committee that Trump wants to see. It may play like an episode of "The Sopranos" Time to get fucked Trump.
I have a 10 AM dentist appt. Just a cleaning. Or so they say....

https://i.ibb.co/FHz5LbY/not-detected.jpg (https://ibb.co/41p8nZS)

petelovesall

02-27-2019, 04:03 PM

It was written by a NY Times employee get over it people. Trump is the greatest thing that has happened to this country since Regan

petelovesall

02-27-2019, 04:06 PM

Cohen is a liar and an felon get over it. You would rather have Democratic muslim that wants to change this country into another Islamic state.

You are all a bunch of assholes

buttslinger

02-28-2019, 03:07 AM

…... Trump is the greatest thing that has happened to this country since Regan

Regan was the little girl in the Exorcist.
The main thing I got today is that the Republicans live in an alternate Universe.
Democrats laid some good groundwork.

filghy2

02-28-2019, 04:09 AM

Cohen is a liar and an felon get over it. You would rather have Democratic muslim that wants to change this country into another Islamic state.

You are all a bunch of assholes

Are you sure you've joined the right forum? You seem to have wandered away from the right-wing delusional hate-monging conspiracy theorists bubble.

1136875

broncofan

03-03-2019, 04:16 PM

Donald Trump recently sold out the family of Otto Warmbier, an American who was brutalized and murdered by the North Korean regime while being held in captivity for a non-offense. Trump said Kim Jong Un told him he knew nothing about Warmbier's mistreatment and he believed him, following his pattern of believing dictators and murderers.

Following his pattern of disbelieving career law enforcement and prosecutors Trump has continued to vilify those heading the Mueller investigations, oddly by pointing out that Mueller is not elected. The entire point of the special counsel statute is to allow for an appointed, independent prosecutor to look into executive branch crimes. Mueller's investigation has seen the conviction of Manafort, Cohen, former NSA Michael Flynn, and will probably yield a conviction against Roger Stone too.

If anyone can sum up what the Cohen testimony brought to light I'd appreciate it. I didn't watch and all I'm hearing are sound bytes about Trump not wanting to release his SAT scores, which frankly is obvious because if they were decent we'd have heard them by now. Obviously anything Cohen says will have to be investigated and corroborated by someone who hasn't been convicted of making false statements, but the testimony of a crook claiming he's coming clean is a decent place to start.

Stavros

03-03-2019, 05:38 PM

Your President is a coward. He could have called Comey and Tillerson into his office to fire them, face to face, but he did not. He stands next to, or in front of dictators like Putin and Kim and crumbles, they know better than he does, and better than the USA's own intelligence services. He may not need to tell them to their face they are unacceptable dictators, diplomatic protocol may suggest that is not a good idea, but to simply cave in as he has does is an astonishing exhibition of cowardice and a dereliction of his duties as President.

But this is a Presidet who has now dragged the Office into the gutter by swearing in public, something that reveals the contempt he has for the Office, but even more depressing is the fact that he is now supported by a part, it used to be called the Republican Party that does not object to his lies, that does not object to his use of crude language, and now cursing in public when insulting and abusing Americans just because they challenge him, and who can't even suggest he button his jacket or his coat. He looks like he is going to the toilet, perhaps because that is how he views his country.

Here are the Cohen takeaways from three different sources linked below:

-"I am ashamed because I know what Mr. Trump is. He is a racist. He is a conman. He is a cheat."

-"He was a presidential candidate who knew that Roger Stone was talking with Julian Assange about a WikiLeaks drop of Democratic National Committee emails."

-"There were at least a half-dozen times between the Iowa Caucus in January 2016 and the end of June when he would ask me 'How's it going in Russia?' -- referring to the Moscow Tower project."

-"Trump knew of and directed the Trump Moscow negotiations throughout the campaign and lied about it. He lied about it because he never expected to win the election. He also lied about it because he stood to make hundreds of millions of dollars on the Moscow real estate project."

-"Mr. Stone told Mr. Trump that he had just gotten off the phone with Julian Assange and that Mr. Assange told Mr. Stone that, within a couple of days, there would be a massive dump of emails that would damage Hillary Clinton's campaign. Mr. Trump responded by stating to the effect of 'wouldn't that be great.'"

-"He once asked me if I could name a country run by a black person that wasn't a 'shithole.' This was when Barack Obama was President of the United States."

-"He told me that black people would never vote for him because they were too stupid."

-"He finished the conversation with the following comment. 'You think I'm stupid, I wasn't going to Vietnam.'"

-"Everything was done with the knowledge of, and at the direction of, Mr. Trump."

-"What he didn't want was to have an entire group of thinks tanks run through his tax return ... and then he'll end up in an audit and eventually have taxable consequences."

-"I fear that if he loses the presidential election in 2020, there will never be a peaceful transition of power."
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/27/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump-oversight-committee-russia/index.html

Note that Cohen says he has never been to Prague or the Czech Republic, but that
Another discrepancy involves Prague. He has denied the claim, and here he did so again, this time under oath. But he went even further, saying, “I’ve never been to Prague. I’ve never been to the Czech Republic.”
Except he told Mother Jones’s David Corn in 2016, “I haven’t been to Prague in 14 years. I was in Prague for one afternoon 14 years ago (https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/04/michael-cohen-says-hes-never-been-to-prague-he-told-me-a-different-story/).” And he told the Wall Street Journal he was in Prague in 2001 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-dossier-puts-longtime-trump-fixer-in-spotlight-1484178320), so around the same time. Did he mean he was only there briefly? Is that the same as never having been there? Expect to hear more about this.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/02/27/key-takeaways-michael-cohen-hearing/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9bb5b35eb37a

Representative Ocasio-Cortez asked sharp questions which you can see here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTjKJbotjLo