Cliven Bundy

[broncofan]

The fact that there aren't even legal grounds for Bundy's argument shows how far off the reservation conservatives are. Anyone who considers himself an honest and decent conservative should be incensed by what is done in their name. This would be as if the mainstream of the democratic party started advocated eco-terrorism or something that is a fringe left-wing phenomenon. Bunch of nutjobs.

[Turlington]

You can't refer to a constitution of a government you don't even acknowledge.

Also, this.

[robertlouis]

There are parts of America which are beyond parody. Even Jonathan Swift would have shaken his head at this as too outlandish.

[kittyKaiti]

This would be as if the mainstream of the democratic party started advocated eco-terrorism or something that is a fringe left-wing phenomenon. Bunch of nutjobs.

Eco-terrorism... like... sending in an army of Feds to surround a rancher and his family Waco style and threaten to murder him over turtles? And then firing squad his cattle and dumping their bodies into graves in the desert?

"Fringe left-wing phenomenon"

Like when Eric Holder gave thousands of weapons to Mexican drug Cartels in Operation Fast and Furious, resulting in increased border violence?

Or when Obama supplied Syrian Al Qaeda terrorist groups with weaponry to assist in overthrowing Assad?

Or was it when the U.S. wanted to give Ukraine and its rioting nationalist groups weaponry to use against Russia and pro-Russian Ukrainians?

All while the Democrats have desperately used dead children as a soap box for trying to pass weapons bans and increased regulation. Hypocrisy galore.

[kittyKaiti]

You can't refer to a constitution of a government you don't even acknowledge.

Also, this.

And a government cannot be acknowledged when it disregards the Constitution.

[trish]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...al-government/

[broncofan]

Eco-terrorism... like... sending in an army of Feds to surround a rancher and his family Waco style and threaten to murder him over turtles? And then firing squad his cattle and dumping their bodies into graves in the desert?

It's not murder if they are acting pursuant to a court order against him and he or his cohorts use violence. I don't accept your other analogies because they are an attempt to turn this into a collateral discussion about foreign policy. The executive's conduct of foreign policy is non-justiciable.

The only issue at stake in this case is the rule of law. Bundy is subject to it whether he recognizes the sovereign or not. Eco-terrorism would be blowing up a corporation because it pollutes. Compare this to sending federal agents to arrest people or seize property because they violate federal regulations. Federal agents are hired to enforce those regulations and they were only doing their job.

I've heard other right-wing nuts suggest that people should not use guns in defense of property regulations. If he has repeatedly failed to respond to court orders, and to pay fines which have been levied against him, there is no other way to enforce those regulations.

[broncofan]

You can't refer to a constitution of a government you don't even acknowledge.

Actually, the Constitution protects even those who don't understand what it says or recognize our government. The problem is that the Constitution doesn't offer him any support in this case. The federal government has a right under the property clause to make regulations on federal land. Bundy's argument about following Nevada law but not federal law clearly shows his misunderstanding of the nature of dual sovereignty. He has repeatedly said that he doesn't understand whether he is subject to Nevada law or federal law. The answer is both.

[ohiodick]

A long-awaited report on the U.S. government’s controversial gun-trafficking operation known as “Fast and Furious” released Wednesday found no evidence that Attorney General Eric Holder knew of the botched effort to trace the flow of guns to Mexico’s drug cartels prior to its public unraveling in January 2011.
The report by the Justice Department’s Inspector General Michael Horowitz said there is "no evidence that ... Holder was informed about Operation Fast and Furious, or learned about the tactics employed by ATF in the investigation" before Congress began pressing him for information about it in early 2011.
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...-running-sting

The Obama administration, concluding that the troops of President Bashar al-Assad of Syria have used chemical weapons against rebel forces in his country’s civil war, has decided to begin supplying the rebels for the first time with small arms and ammunition, according to American officials. The officials held out the possibility that the assistance, coordinated by the Central Intelligence Agency, could include antitank weapons, but they said that for now supplying the antiaircraft weapons that rebel commanders have said they sorely need is not under consideration. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/14/wo...pagewanted=all

At least 132,000 civilians have died from 10 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a new study by Brown university. And that’s a conservative estimate.
No one can say with certainty how many civilians have died in these wars. But researchers at Brown’s Watson Institute for International Studies found that between 12,000 and 14,000 of them perished in Afghanistan — the most recent of which came from Tuesday’s audacious insurgent attack on Kabul’s most famous hotel. Another 120,000 died in Iraq. An estimated 35,000 more lost their lives in Pakistan, where the United States is fighting a shadow war against terror groups and militants. (Although the report says it can’t “disaggregate civilian from combatant death” there, which is kind of a big deal.)
http://www.wired.com/2011/06/afghani...s-report-says/

[Dino Velvet]

There are parts of America which are beyond parody.

Right you are...